MercoPress. South Atlantic News Agency
Battle of the Falklands to be commemorated on Sunday 8th December
The Falkland Islands will commemorate on Sunday the naval engagement of 8th December 1914 when the Royal Navy sunk with a minimum loss of life the German fleet, an event which until Liberation Day, 14 June 1982, was the most outstanding of the Islands calendar. Read full article
Comments
Disclaimer & comment rulesTo be fair to ze Germans, the Battle of ze Falklands was the second half of ze battle. Ze first half, ze Battle of Condell, went to ze Germans.
Dec 05th, 2013 - 09:15 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@1 With all due respect I think you may be getting your Battle of Coronel muddled with your Battle of Punta Gruesa.
Dec 05th, 2013 - 09:18 pm - Link - Report abuse 0No Falkirk Frank he hasn't. Coroner was the worst defeat the RN had suffered in a century.
Dec 05th, 2013 - 09:35 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Funny thing was that Von Spee and Kit Craddock were friends having fought along side each other in China
It's a pity the centenary is so low key with no naval contingent.
I would have had a German naval ship there to commemorate their own dead
Coronel, Coroner, whatever,,,,,, but Captain Condell of the Covadonga was the hero of the Battle of Punta Gruesa.
Dec 05th, 2013 - 10:25 pm - Link - Report abuse 0OK Frank, a typo for Coronel.
Dec 05th, 2013 - 11:12 pm - Link - Report abuse 0But you are getting two wars mixed up.
Coronel was Brits v Germans. Punta Gruesa was the War of the Pacific, ie Chile v Peru.
Yes Capt Condell, another Scot I seem to recall, was the hero in the Cavadonga and defeated the Peruvian Independencia if my memory serves me right
Some of the fiercest naval fights of all time, which should be better known,happened in that conflict.
Even though it sounds anachronistic there was still a reverence to a defeated enemy. You should read the correspondence, albeit in very flowery Spanish between the Peruvian captain of the Huascar, Grau and Arturo Prats widow.
The Huascar was later captured by the Chileans in an action where Grau also lost his life, and is still afloat thanks to the tlc of the Chilean Navy
She is a monument to naval design of the time, built in a Birkenhead shipyard
Condorito, my history is a bit rusty and you will correct my errors no doubt.
Pls refer back to #1..... where Condorito sez 'Battle of Condell' .... yes I know I am pedantic .. its part of the ageing process.... :)
Dec 05th, 2013 - 11:42 pm - Link - Report abuse 0It afects us all Frank sonreír or later
Dec 06th, 2013 - 12:25 am - Link - Report abuse 0Grau and Prat had been comrades at the Battle of Abtao. I was at Abtao about a month ago, didn't know there had been a battle there until then ... didn't know Spain was still fighting Chile and Peru as late as 1866. I reckon the day I don't learn something new is a sad day indeed..
Dec 06th, 2013 - 12:32 am - Link - Report abuse 0I can vaguely recall reading somewhere that at next years commemorative ceremony, the centenary of the battle; a delegation from Germany will be invited to participate. A nice gesture towards what are now our European and NATO allies. Anyone have any information on this?
Dec 06th, 2013 - 12:44 am - Link - Report abuse 0@9 To recall your name “Yes, there is some corner of a foriegn field... etc etc”
Dec 06th, 2013 - 02:02 am - Link - Report abuse 0I think its a shame the Germans are not participating as it is after all a war grave to many of their countrymen
Their courage was fully recognised by a signal after the battle by Admiral Doveton Sturdee to the senior survivor Commander Pochammer
@8 Abtao. Condorito is much more into Chile/Peruvian history than I am, but that war with Spain was basically about the control of the nitrate deposits (guano) which was an important source of explosives at that time as well as agricultural fertilisers
You all maybe buddy buddies with Germany, Italy, and the rest. But Argentine friendship with the UK will never see the light of day again. That train is looong gone.
Dec 06th, 2013 - 02:04 am - Link - Report abuse 0Fuck orf TiT.... grown ups are talking...
Dec 06th, 2013 - 02:17 am - Link - Report abuse 0and all the while the RGs were just waiting their chance to steal Chilean and FI assets in the south....
@Frank @Redpoll
Dec 06th, 2013 - 02:46 am - Link - Report abuse 0Sorry my bad, I meant ze Battle of Coronel.
Go away snotty and get your indigenous DNA officially registered
Dec 06th, 2013 - 03:08 am - Link - Report abuse 0The Peronists would be delighted and in the name of racial purity could finish the Desert War with a final solution
That phrase ring a bell?
A URUGUAYAN talking about ethnic cleansing of INDANS. That's about as coherent as Picardo talking about dieting.
Dec 06th, 2013 - 03:23 am - Link - Report abuse 0@11
Dec 06th, 2013 - 07:15 am - Link - Report abuse 0Are we bovvered?” jees that's some sulk! thirty one years since getting you arses kicked
Poor old Kit Craddock(good Yorkshireman)never had a chance.
Dec 06th, 2013 - 10:29 am - Link - Report abuse 0Two obsolete Cruisers, manned by Reservists, one useless Armed merchantman, one obsolete Battleship(that wasn't even in the battle, it was too slow)& one modern light cruiser against five modern German cruisers(two heavy & three light).
The British had the setting sun behind them, making them good targets while the Germans were hidden in the gloom.
l don't blame the Germans, it was war.
The blame must be laid at the feet of the Admiralty for making Kit fight with 3rd class equipment against a foe that was known to have modern ships.
l also read somewhere that not long before Admiral Troubridge had been courtmartialed for failing to engage the enemy.
This must have played on Kit's mind & probably was the final factor in deciding to fight.
The last point is my personal opinion.
Yes, indeed, Chris Craddock, you & all your men, RIP.
11 The Truth PaTroll
Dec 06th, 2013 - 11:11 am - Link - Report abuse 0You speak for yourself and not for all Argentina. Its ridiculous to claim that there will be a permanent state of animosity between Argentina and the UK for the rest of eternity. Life is unpredictable and perhaps the people of Argentina will oneday elect a mature, sensible far-sighted administation that leads Argentina into a prosperous and open future.
As I have said on previous occasions the Argentinian friends I have in London don't agree with you. They are open. friendly. polite, tolorant, educated people who are also indifferent about the Falklands. They travelled to Germany for the world cup in 2006 and loved the country. They also love it here in London but it doesn't stop them loving their own country. They're not alone. The number of Argentinians travelling to the UK for study business and tourism is increasing, despite the ridiculous currency clamp.
There is an old cliche (Oscar Wilde?) A patriot is someone who loves their country, whilst a nationalist is someone who hates everyone elses.
@The Truth PaTroll, In a nutshell we could not give a rats ass about friendship with a country of in planted immigrants who have problems with their history, now sod of and close the door behind you.
Dec 06th, 2013 - 12:34 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Minimum loss of life? In the Battle of the Falklands - Germans 2,200 dead and British 10; in the earlier battle of Coronel - Germans 0 and British 1600. Hardly an insignifcant death toll and considerably more than occurred in the whole of the Falklands Conflict on both sides.
Dec 06th, 2013 - 12:45 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@1 You're going to have to explain how two battles 38 days apart were actually the same battle. Especially as the Battle of the Falkland Islands took place with different forces and on the other side of the South American continent.
Dec 06th, 2013 - 12:46 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@12 Couldn't agree more. A little ill-disciplined brat that needs proper punishment.
@17 Thank you, Isolde, for clarifying the “action”. A suitable record of the courage of the Royal Navy. Outmatched by the construction of the vessels and outgunned, they nevertheless fought. Move on to 1982. Did any Royal Navy vessel “retreat”? Not one. And after ONE argie cruiser was sunk, the entire argie “navy” ran. Never to stir out of port again. Being northern Europeans, many Germans also have courage. Strange how argies don't have any. Must be something to do with originally being Italians and Spaniards. Remember Second World War Italian tanks? Five reverse gears and one forward. And Spaniards were Nazi sympathisers. Still are, pretty much.
@18 I wonder about your friends. Are they telling you how they think? Or are they telling you what they think you want to hear? How can they be “indifferent” about the Falklands? If they are “patriots”, surely they would criticise “their” country's posture. Because it wouldn't be theirs. The “issue” of the Falkland Islands is important. It matches the right of self-determination against neo-colonialist wannabe imperialism. Why are your friends in Europe instead of argieland? Because they understand the worth of European culture and political progress? Or because they want to avoid argie political corruption, theft, rebellion, mayhem and collapse?
@19 Have to agree with that. Unfortunately, the twat will be back. All war criminals are much the same when they think they are “safe”.
Your Comment RedPoll- you are a year out- this year is 99th!- next year 2014 will be the 100th - and Yes - the German Navy have been invited along with the descendants of the combatants to mark a joint commemoration of both battles between nations who were once enemies but now friends and allies.
Dec 06th, 2013 - 12:50 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Coronel being famous/infamous as the first major Royal Navy defeat since Trafalgar in 1805. many of those young lads on the Good Hope apparently left Stanley October 1914 in tears - they knew they would never set foot on land again - were all going to die in a week or two as they knew the odds were impossible.
Isolde. Yes Troubridges court martial over the Goeben affair may have influenced him but it wasn't Cradocks nature to shrink from fight. He knew he hadn't a cat in hells chance against Von Spee and hinted as much in his last letter to the Falklands governor.
Dec 06th, 2013 - 01:49 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Added to which he had received a number of contradictory signalls from the Admiralty, headed at that time by one Winston S Churchill.
The ones that got away. The AMC Otranto was ordered not to join the line of battle at Coronel as Cradock knew she was hopelessly outgunned.
HMS Glasgow also escaped though damaged, possibly from hits fired by SMS Dresden
HMS Canopus never joined Cradocks ship as she had engine trouble. This old battleship was to play a small but decisive part in the Falklands action although she never went sea!
The only cruise to escape at the latter battle was SMS Dresden which after many weary months was finally caught at Mas Fuera island off Chile. Her nemesis was none other than HMS Glasgow.
One of the officers interned in Chile was one Lt Wilhelm Canaris,who escaped and through many adventures escaped and returned to Germany through Portugal and Italy who were both on the Allied side
In WW2 he was to become head of German naval intellence before being executed as a traitor on Hitlers orders.
@21 Conq
Dec 06th, 2013 - 01:57 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“You're going to have to explain how two battles 38 days apart were actually the same battle”
You're looking at it too narrowly. The Campaign was against Spee's commerce destroying squadron. The geographical locations of the engagements were fortuitous.
The first engagement (1st half) was off the coast of Chile. That went to the Germans as explained/discussed above. Head coach Churchill dispatched 2 substitutes for the 2nd half. The second half went to the RN.
It was a decisive victory, no extra time required.
@22, 24. Yes my mistake islander. Condorito: perhaps we could also say that the campaign ended on 24th March 1915 with the destruction of the Dresden at Mas Afuera
Dec 06th, 2013 - 03:12 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I was in correspondence with a German friend a while back who mentioned that she had met the current Grafin von Spee at a dinner party. I had mistakenly thought that the title was extinct as both Admiral von Spee and his two sons died at the Falklands engagement. In previous posts I have mentioned the strong connections between the Spee and the Langsdorf families. ( Langsdorf of the Graf Spee)
Isolde The first person to sight the German fleet was a Mrs Fenton. Any of her descendants live on the FI, I wonder?
Achtung! A Voice! The dispatch of two battle cruisers seriously weakened the east coast naval defences in the North Sea and the SMS Von der Tann and other ships raided Scarborough, Whitby and your home town of Hartlepool, killing a number of civilians and obviously your great grandad wasnt among them. Possibly on French leave was he?
Some interesting reading “Coronel and After” by Lloyd-Hirst, “Battleships in Action” - H.W.Wilson and “Naval Battles of the First World War” by Geoffrey Bennett
Another bit of trivia. Von Spee was actually born in Copenhagenwhere his grandfather was the Italian opera singer Sibaldi at the royal opera house
So nows your chance Think ,me old Skandahovian wurzel. Get yourself accredited as official Danish representative to the commemoration. I am sure Celias cat will be delighted to see you
Chortle, chortle chortle
I wonder if Sibbald is an english derivative of Sibaldi.... I once was a guest in Sibbar on Sibbald
Dec 06th, 2013 - 04:09 pm - Link - Report abuse 0http://www.armada.cl/prontus_armada/site/artic/20090706/pags/20090706022701.html
Red Poll, you are correct, and Von Spee, s grandson will hopefully be here, along with descendents of Craddock , Sturdee and others.we are hopefull of a german naval prescence as well as it would be great to see both naval contingents marching together in respect and commenoration of both battles.
Dec 06th, 2013 - 05:02 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@26 Thanks for the link Frank. You learn summat every day!
Dec 06th, 2013 - 05:07 pm - Link - Report abuse 0There is also a group of rocks off the Falklands known in Spanish as the Sebaldes aka known as the Jason Islands in English
Sebaldes? After the Dutch captain Sebald de Wirt who discovered them. Today I think they are a wild life sanctuary owned by the Bronx Zoo in NY.
They were a ships grave yard and I think Southby-Taylor RM did some research on that after the Falklands War
The nearby Carcass Island I think is still run as a sheep farm. I have a letter from there of around 1968 and its canceelled with a post mark Keep the Falkland Islands British
Probably not official as I wrote to Gibbons, the stamp people in London and they had never heard of it
Commenting for this story is now closed.
If you have a Facebook account, become a fan and comment on our Facebook Page!