MercoPress. South Atlantic News Agency
World joins in grief and admiration for South Africa's greatest, Madiba
Former South African president and hero of the anti-apartheid movement, Nelson Mandela, has passed away in his home following a long fight against illness, current head of state Jacob Zuma revealed on Thursday in a press conference. Read full article
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Disclaimer & comment rulesNelson Mandela wanted an Africa primarily for the Africans, if anyone from South America says anything about his legacy today, while ignoring that their entire continent is still run by European imperialists rather than the native peoples, they're massive massive hypocrites.
Dec 06th, 2013 - 08:31 am - Link - Report abuse 0A great loss of a man who set an inspirational example for millions of people worldwide.
Dec 06th, 2013 - 09:09 am - Link - Report abuse 0His personal work with the SA rugby Team and it's white Captain would suggest that he seriously desired to bridge the racial gap of his citizens, post apartheid. The Springboks won, and as a result he did.
Guilty as charged then, and yes, I've been there before and after.
@2 Boovis
Dec 06th, 2013 - 09:15 am - Link - Report abuse 0I live in Australia - by your reasoning I too live on a continent that “is still run by European imperialists rather than the native peoples”.
If I choose to say anything about Nelson Mandela's legacy today does that make me a massive hypocrite? Does that also apply to the many British and other European expatriates who live in South America?
@ 3 I think it only applies to Peronistas....
Dec 06th, 2013 - 09:43 am - Link - Report abuse 0Nelson Mandela represented a group of black Africans many (the vast majority) were not the indigenous people of South Africa at all. They were economic migrants from central Africa due to the mining and wealth creation in the South.
Dec 06th, 2013 - 10:47 am - Link - Report abuse 0The Zulu have a far greater claim on being the indigenous South Africans.
What Mandela stood for was self-determination. Put the past (real and imagined) behind you, and let everyone have a say in determining their own futures.
It is the only way, not perfect but in the 21st century has to be the way forward.
Only Argentina seems to want to deny self determination, and inflict colonialist government on a population that doesn't want it.
The first to advocate armed resistance.
Dec 06th, 2013 - 10:50 am - Link - Report abuse 0Which means white people died for his cause, but now he is dead. Comes to us all in the end.
Pepe, Mandela Lite. Very Lite, Mandela was at least an educated guy AND the consumate statesman.
Pity Pepe because he is none of those. People died for his “cause” then the people were hijacked by the military as a direct result of the stupidity of the Tupamaros. But now he is one of the “people”. Mmmm. That's the problem.
@4 Frank
Dec 06th, 2013 - 11:17 am - Link - Report abuse 0I didn't think Peronism translated beyond Argentina's borders.
At the time it mattered - when the sanctions regime began to be applied - Britain sided with apartheid South Africa, slammed Mandela as a terrorist, and had young activists for its ruling party wear badges reading, “Hang Nelson Mandela”.
Dec 06th, 2013 - 11:21 am - Link - Report abuse 0Hopefully Mandela's image will live on after Britain's will be long gone.
3: pretty much, yeah. But at least Australia and other countries are actually doing something to make amends of the wrongs of the past, whereas South America still burns down forests and treats the natives like dirt. That's the hypocrisy.
Dec 06th, 2013 - 12:13 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The Strossner regime had close ties to the Apartheid regime. In 1974 Stroessner was the first non-African head of state in 20 years to pay an official visit to South Africa. The reward for this 'beggar bowl' foreign policy (still in force with regard to Taiwan) was that the Apartheid regime paid for the construction of Paraguay's new Supreme Court building. Maybe this origin of the maximum court in the country is appropriate for a judicial system that remains riddled with gross injustice from to to bottom. Foreign investors be aware!
Dec 06th, 2013 - 12:16 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@8 Forgetit86
Dec 06th, 2013 - 12:23 pm - Link - Report abuse 0And when South Africa tried to tell the M.C.C. that they couldn't pick Basil D'Oliveira, a Cape coloured man, to tour South Africa with the English cricket team England cancelled the tour. In '71/'72 when South Africa were due to tour Australia the A.C.B. at the instigation of Sir Donald Bradman cancelled the tour and instead instigated a Rest of the World team which included white South Africans, Indians and West Indians to plat against Australia. South Africa was banned from playing other I.C.C. countries until the demise of apartheid.
There was always strong opposition in Britain and other Commonwealth countries, in the sixties, to both Nelson Mandela's imprisonment as well the apartheid regime. And it was even stronger by the eighties. Who do you think sang “Free Nelson Mandela”? The former Australian Prime Minister, Malcolm Fraser - a conservative - was a personal friend of Oliver Tambo, head of the A.N.C. in the eighties.
It is a much more complicated picture than you would have us believe.
#8 ....and, I suppose its inevitable that on a site like this we have to suffer totally one sided utterances like yours. British history is full of past crimes and things we would rather forget, but its what we are now that counts, a largely non racist, tolerant and peaceful nation with a strong sense of fairness and decency always ready to help those in need and at the forefront of democracy, self determination, and human rights.
Dec 06th, 2013 - 12:48 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Mandela taught the world about forgiveness and reconciliation, pity it passed unnoticed by #8 . Must be an RG, all of whom seem focussed on their own navels and deny their continuing criminality...
Dec 06th, 2013 - 01:06 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@8 In 999 AD, England's predecessor, Wessex, was on the brink of destruction by the Danes. In 1066, the Norman invasion was largely negated by the ability of the English to assimilate others. In 1588, a successful Spanish Armada would have seen the end of England. Around 1805, Napoleon Bonaparte thought he could defeat Britain. He couldn't. He died in British custody. By 1917, Britain was castrating Kaiser Wilhelm's Germany. By mid-1943 Britain was defeating Nazi Germany. That's BRITAIN. By that time, US Americans were learning to land and die. Best example was Operation Torch. US Americans were pretty much irrelevant. But they did learn to point their guns in the right direction. A lesson they have since forgotten.
Dec 06th, 2013 - 01:35 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Fortunately, in another thousand years, argieland will be a desert. Britain will “own” Europe. People will go to Trafalgar Square, look up and think “There's only one Nelson”!
NELSON MANDELA.
Dec 06th, 2013 - 01:57 pm - Link - Report abuse 0(1918-FOR EVER).
Thank you for your legacy of equality, and for having fought strongly for human rights.
People who suffered the consecuences of discrimination, and those who are still victims of reactionary social contexts around the world, will always take your legacy, in order to fight their rights. Whereever you are, you won a special place in the memory of many of us.
http://www.juancole.com/2013/12/mandela-supported-apartheid.html
Dec 06th, 2013 - 02:11 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“The attempt to make Nelson Mandela respectable is an ongoing effort of Western government spokesmen and the Western media.
”He wasn’t respectable in the business circles of twentieth-century New York or Atlanta, or inside the Beltway of Washington, D.C. He wasn’t respectable for many of the allies of the United States in the Cold War, including Britain and Israel.”
Forge Tit whatever number you want today
Dec 06th, 2013 - 02:19 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Haven't you got the idea yet that nobody is interested in your screwed up view of the UK.
You are a Brazil Nut, aren't you?
Watch Forgetit86 bite :-)))))
Dec 06th, 2013 - 02:30 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Ending Police Impunity and Promoting Indigenous Peoples’ Rights Must Be Brazil’s Priorities
http://www.amnesty.org/en/for-media/press-releases/ending-police-impunity-and-promoting-indigenous-peoples-rights-must-be-bra-0
@Chrissy
Dec 06th, 2013 - 03:53 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Nobody is interested, huh? Why then did I have so many of your countrymen trying to justify themselves to me? They're ashamed of their country's apartheid-mongering in Africa, as they should be. Clearly it's strick a nerve with you too.
@ sticky
Brazil... police impunity... what does that remind me of?
Oh, this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Jean_Charles_de_Menezes
@19
Dec 06th, 2013 - 04:38 pm - Link - Report abuse 0We have some catching up to do with your lot :-)))))
According to Global Justice, in 2003, the police killed 1,195 people in the State of Rio de Janeiro alone.
•The Rio and São Paulo police have killed more than 11,000 people since 2003
•The number of police killings in Rio state reached a record high of 1,330 in 2007 and in 2008, the number was third highest at 1,137
•The number of police killings in São Paulo state, while less than in Rio, is also comparatively high: over the past five years, for example, there were more police killings in São Paulo state (2,176) than in all of South Africa (1,623), a country with a much higher homicide rate than São Paulo.
http://policebrutalityinbrazil.tumblr.com/
www.youtube.com/watch?v=s8mrf4b9PA8&noredirect=1
Dec 06th, 2013 - 04:47 pm - Link - Report abuse 0www.youtube.com/watch?v=xtOXiQToz64&noredirect=1
www.youtube.com/watch?v=FRQZW7zY5u8&noredirect=1
@21
Dec 06th, 2013 - 04:57 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Snap
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wEzm6twTLSU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wEzm6twTLSU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wEzm6twTLSU
@22
Dec 06th, 2013 - 05:02 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Comparing internal football squabbles with being a world embarrassment every solitary World CUP?
Tribute to Nelson Mandela, the greatest statesman of out times.
Dec 06th, 2013 - 05:28 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Wisdom.
Peace with honour AND Reconciliation.
No fighter for freedom has ever won his freedom with peace, with honour AND with reconciliation.
“No fighter for freedom has ever won his freedom with peace, with honour AND with reconciliation.”
Dec 06th, 2013 - 05:41 pm - Link - Report abuse 0What a-historic BS, Geoff. This isn't true for a number of countries the world over - India and South Africa included. What brought South Africa independence was not peace, it was not the exchange of mutual flattering notes with the apartheidniks - non-violent protests, in fact, had been outlawed by the apartheid regime as early as the 1950s. What led to South Africa's apartheid's demise was economic and diplomatic WARFARE; it was aggression - economic, indirect aggression, but aggression none the less - that finally led the apartheid system into becoming too expensive to be kept by the people who used to profit from it.
But I guess because your countries have been at the bottom end of independence struggles by the world's oppressed you imperialists have an interest in paying lip service to “non-violence” and “reconciliation”. US, UK, Israel - the whole racialist shebang can use “pre-emptive” violence all they like - but God forbid those they pester ever lash back with anything other than “non-violence”.
To @sticky,
After years with this back and forth, you still haven't got new tricks. Anyway, I've denounced you for making off-topic comments.
As I noted above, at the time that mattered most, Britain had a pro-apartheid government. And 19 years later, on the day of Mandela's passing - it still got one!
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/camerons-freebie-to-apartheid-south-africa-1674367.html
Forgetit.
Dec 06th, 2013 - 06:50 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I don't care if you are black, brown or off-white, and you are too young to have 'been there'.
Please do not confuse and conflate ME with any government, any regime, or any political or economic stance.
I am my own man, and you have , at #24, MY opinion.
Take it at its face value, and respect it.
If, after a similar lifetime to Nelson Mandela, you have similar things said about you, then you might be afforded the same Respect.
Brazilian apartheid
Dec 06th, 2013 - 07:06 pm - Link - Report abuse 0This parallels between South Africa during the apartheid era and modern-day Brazil is strengthened by that fact that inequities in the economic and social status particularly affect Afro-Brazilians
http://english.turkcebilgi.com/Allegations+of+Brazilian+apartheid
Forget tit, Toby the tit, two prime racists with hate in their hearts, no place for them here when we are talking about the worlds best human being.
Dec 06th, 2013 - 07:15 pm - Link - Report abuse 0What a great man Nelson Mandela was.
Dec 06th, 2013 - 07:43 pm - Link - Report abuse 0He had values that we should all aspire to, I stand in awe of what this great man did for his country. He made the world a better place just for having lived.
Obama was right, we will not see his like again and the whole world should, quite rightly, mourn his passing.
23 The Truth PaTroll
I see your point, but you're still full of s**t
A Colossus who not only bestrode Africa, but the world
Dec 06th, 2013 - 08:17 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Att...: (26) GeoffWard2
Dec 06th, 2013 - 08:34 pm - Link - Report abuse 0CC....: (25) Forgetit86
Geoff..... Stop being such a Drama Queen and try to rebute our young Brasilian friend, Mr. Forgetit86's, more that truthful postulate...:
“What led to South Africa's apartheid's demise was economic and diplomatic WARFARE; it was aggression - economic, indirect aggression, but aggression none the less - that finally led the Apartheid system into becoming too expensive to be kept by the people who used to profit from it........
But I guess because your countries have been at the bottom end of independence struggles by the world's oppressed you imperialists have an interest in paying lip service to “non-violence” and “reconciliation”. US, UK, Israel - the whole racialist shebang can use “pre-emptive” violence all they like - but God forbid those they pester ever lash back with anything other than “non-violence”.”
Ps:
Mr. Nelson Mandela could afford “Reconciliation”.....
He knew they had won and that White Zuid-Afrika soon would only exist in history books...
In 1970 there were about 20% Whites in Zuid-Africa...
In 2013 there are about 7% Whites in Zuid-Africa...
in 2013 there are under 3% “0-10 years old” Whites in Zuid-Africa...
Do you see the pattern?
I don't get it....anti white...Africa for blacks is right...
Dec 06th, 2013 - 08:47 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Indigenous rule...Whites get out....
Though not the case in.....Australia...USA....South America....Canada...
What's so special about Africa that the world supports it only in Africa...
Think, did you throw the indiginous Indians out of the planes over the river Plate? Oh no! You didnt have planes back then did you?
Dec 06th, 2013 - 08:53 pm - Link - Report abuse 01833 - Patagonia - nearly 100% Mapuche Indians
1900 - Patagonia now absorbed into Argentinia 10% Indians
Colonialist genocide....
2013 - Patagonia now 0.1% Indians
Think....do you see the pattern.
RGs, bloody murdering colonialist barstards!
A_Voice says:
Dec 07th, 2013 - 05:53 am - Link - Report abuse 0“I don't get it”
Obviously!
34
Dec 07th, 2013 - 04:35 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Ho ho ho! (my festive laugh)
Were you trying to be clever there Skip?
Who does get world hypocrisy....
The gradual expulsion and marginalising of whites in Africa...the Aborigines should take note of this global support...pack your bags Skip and give the power, land, farms, rule and wealth back to the indigenous folk ....
Tell you what I do 'get' Skip...The English Language!
...unlike you, I do know the difference between the plural of the noun Dwarf and a word invented by a writer of fiction...keep up your Uni work and one day you might too...;-))))
If you want to post glib comments to appear clever....
....it may help ...if you were...in fact...clever...
@sticky
Dec 07th, 2013 - 04:49 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“Apartheid: made in Britain: Richard Dowden explains how Churchill, Rhodes and Smuts caused black South Africans to lose their rights”
http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/apartheid-made-in-britain-richard-dowden-explains-how-churchill-rhodes-and-smuts-caused-black-south-africans-to-lose-their-rights-1370856.html
35 A_Voice
Dec 07th, 2013 - 09:09 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“pack your bags Skip and give the power, land, farms, rule and wealth back to the indigenous folk”
Is that what you are going to do in argentina???
are you going to.... what was it that you said?? oh yes:-
“give the power, land, farms, rule and wealth back to the indigenous folk”
Are you going to practice what you preach???
Still not getting it I see.
Dec 08th, 2013 - 03:34 am - Link - Report abuse 0Don't worry the penny may drop!
@35 A_Voice
Dec 08th, 2013 - 04:15 am - Link - Report abuse 0The aboriginal population of Australia is too few in number and far too powerless to effect to changes you propose. Ironically many white South Africans have chosen to migrate here - why they didn't go to the country of their ancestors, The Netherlands, I have no idea. Maybe the Dutch didn't want them. Although, to be fair, many of the migrants have British ancestry. They're not quite so obnoxious.
The present Finance Minister, Matthias Cormas, is an example of the former. Every time I hear him speak in that broad white South African accent it gives me the willies. There is a large population in Perth where I used to live and every time the South African cricket team tours here guess which team they support?
@39 sorry but Cormas is from Belgium... close but not quite a yarpee... maybe better than the previous incumbent...
Dec 08th, 2013 - 08:57 am - Link - Report abuse 0Dear Think,
Dec 08th, 2013 - 09:45 am - Link - Report abuse 0'Please do not confuse and conflate ME with any government, any regime, or any political or economic stance.
I am my own man, and you have .. MY opinion.'
I am sure you are not paid to be a government-mouthpiece.
Neither am I.
My opinions seen to be more crystallised as I age (acquired wisdom?),
but I'm sure you would remind me (as you do) whenever I have a 'Meldrew Moment'.
Sufficient here, and - especially - now, for me to focus attention on the word 'reconciliation' .. it should have a place in polarised South America; but, for the life of me, I don't ever see it.
Is there not one man or woman of sufficient stature?
What ... Not in a whole continent?
@40
Dec 08th, 2013 - 10:12 am - Link - Report abuse 0Well that's me told off lol. Gail Kelly I quite like.
(39) Heisenbergcontext & (40) Frank (The Yank ;-)
Dec 08th, 2013 - 11:50 am - Link - Report abuse 0You seldom get things right first time do you....., Mr. Frank?
You Aussies got it wrong... The name is Cormann... Mathias C O R M A N N.
You can hardly blame Mr.Heisenbergcontext for confusing that liberal Aardvark with a Jarpie though...... He looks more Afrikaner than bokkom....
(41) GeoffWard2
You say...:
“.... focus attention on the word 'reconciliation' .. it should have a place in polarised South America; but, for the life of me, I don't ever see it.”
I say...:
“Reconciliation” alone may work in an Arcadian society with “well crystallised” ideas, laddie.....
IMHO...., more amorphous societies as ours, should primarily focus their attention on the Rule of Law....
@43 Think
Dec 08th, 2013 - 01:46 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Actually Frank was at least half right whilst I was completely wrong. I apologize to my German speaking Belgian-Australian Finance Minister Herr Cormann.
(44) Heisenbergcontext
Dec 08th, 2013 - 04:10 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You say...:
“Actually Frank was at least half right whilst I was completely wrong.”
I say...:
Difference being that Mr. Frank is usualy 3/4 wrong...
You are mostly 3/4 right... ;-)
So, Think,
Dec 08th, 2013 - 04:14 pm - Link - Report abuse 0reconciliation can only come within intellectually developed, Arcadian societies, who know what they want and know what they're doing.
It looks like your place has no hope whatsoever!
Could you tell 'the boss' that, if she has no appropriate society, she has to 'rule' according to the Law.
(46) GeoffWard2
Dec 08th, 2013 - 04:35 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You say...:
Could you tell 'the boss' that, if she has no appropriate society, she has to 'rule' according to the Law.
I say...:
Firstly....., I sincerely think that Mme. President Cristina Elisabet Fernández Wilhelm de Kirchner legislative record is excellent...
(Please inform yourself about the topic before firing a “Meldrew” answer...)
Secondly....., Do you know what happens when you tell a modern woman what she has to do?
(Clue......: Doghouse ;-)
We know what the law demands of 'the boss', but it seems to me that she has forgotten that she is not above the law.
Dec 08th, 2013 - 06:32 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Wrt Milking the state for private gain, and bringing real poverty to the people ...
Yes, it takes a brave man to tell 'the boss' that she is not above the law.
Could you be that man?
@44 Hiesenberg Uncertainty Principle in action?
Dec 08th, 2013 - 06:56 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@47 think do be consistent. I thought you were for Binner. How was the fiesta at Apeleg. Dry?
(49) redpoll
Dec 08th, 2013 - 09:39 pm - Link - Report abuse 0If the other team plays a good game....., I'm the first to acknowledge it.
As we say in Argentina since 1806........... It's just cricket.
Oh that's just not cricket me ol' sport!
Dec 09th, 2013 - 01:05 am - Link - Report abuse 0@49 redpoll
Dec 09th, 2013 - 03:47 am - Link - Report abuse 0Ouch.
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