MercoPress. South Atlantic News Agency
UK considers drawing a historic parallel between Gibraltar and Spain's Ceuta and Melilla
The British Government drew a historic parallel between Gibraltar and Spain’s north African enclaves in a parliamentary response this week. While recognizing that Ceuta and Melilla had a different constitutional relationship with Spain, Europe Minister David Lidington said the enclaves and Gibraltar both stemmed from “a distinct set of historical circumstances.” Read full article
Comments
Disclaimer & comment rulesYes - reciprocal pressure should be brought to bear on Spain¡
Dec 07th, 2013 - 07:58 am - Link - Report abuse 0I feel that Briain ought to not only draw the historical parallels, but also positively support Moroccos claims...in addition to offering general support for Catalonian independence from Spain, the Spanish President felt he could comment (interfere) over Scotland's vote a couple of weeks ago...what's good for the goose is good for the gander, right?
Dec 07th, 2013 - 10:53 am - Link - Report abuse 0The conquistadors should remember they began all the recent bullying of Gibraltar, turning great swathes of the Spanish population into hostile anti British activists ( car scratching, burning, firing at British jet skiers and forcing 7 hour queues at the Gibraltar border, for its own people as well as others)
The message it there, Spain is less safe and a lot more hostile to the British, think twice about that Spanish holiday, and think about purchasing Spanish products...
Since WW2 all silly irredentist claims are bankrupt, kaputt.
Dec 07th, 2013 - 12:38 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Philippe
Britain should NEVER support Moroccan claims to Ceuta and Melilla.
Dec 07th, 2013 - 01:39 pm - Link - Report abuse 0First because such claims have no legal basis.
Secondly and more importantly because supporting Morocco would be the same as supporting Spain's claim to Gibraltar. International diplomacy is not a matter of doing spiteful things for revenge. Should the UK support Morocco, it could be setting an international law precedent that would backfire spectacularly on Gibraltar.
This Lidington is loosing it!!.
Dec 07th, 2013 - 02:05 pm - Link - Report abuse 0*4 well said!! I am surprised!!
@4 Really? Wouldn't you agree that Morocco existed as a united state under the Alaouite Dynasty, still the ruling house, from 1666? At what point in time did Morocco formally cede Ceuta or Melilla to Spain? I dislike Spain's lies about the Treaty of Utrecht, but it remains a fact that Spain formally ceded Gibraltar to Britain. Let's remember that when Ceuta was “ceded” to Spain, it was by Portugal. A bit like swapping a coin from your left pocket to your right!
Dec 07th, 2013 - 02:33 pm - Link - Report abuse 0stick this in the pot
Dec 07th, 2013 - 03:45 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Disputed status of Olivenza
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disputed_status_of_Olivenza
Haha, knew this was coming, then tenerife etc, Spain have so much more to lose by them being pricks best thing for them to do it sign a modern treaty on Gibraltar. Spain cannot win its case in a court hence why they have never requested it, same as the Argies they have no claim to either.
Dec 07th, 2013 - 04:12 pm - Link - Report abuse 0spain is for two faced,
Dec 07th, 2013 - 07:39 pm - Link - Report abuse 0they have attacked the British isles 3 times in the past,
they are a violent and selfish bunch are they not,
they should be thrown out of the EU and nato...
*6 Blimey!! when are you going to read some SPANISH HISTORY!! Melilla was conquered by the spaniards in 1497 by Pedro De Estopiñan long before this sweet Morocccon family came along......
Dec 07th, 2013 - 07:42 pm - Link - Report abuse 0*7 I should be charging you for this free history lesson!!
When Spain conquered Olivenza. The Portuguese in Brazil conquered the Spanish missions in Spanish Uruguay. The area conquered is in Northern Uruguay between the rivers Ibicy and Yaquanon which belong to Brazil today, So you see there is nothing Portugal can claim todayfrom Spain.Spain tool Olivenza and Portugal took “ Las misiones orientales de Uruguay”.....
Conquered… conquered…. Conquered…
Dec 07th, 2013 - 07:59 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The spoils to the victor is it not,
Was not Gibraltar , Conquered
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
Melilla was conquered by the Spaniards in 1497 long before this sweet Moroccan family came along......
The British Falklands were their long before the Argentinian family came along….
The parallels are significant are they not….
Still,
They all have a fundamental right to self determination, freedom, independence, and to live in peace,
Do they not…..
Just a freely independent thought lol.
..
@10 Ceuta was part of the Kingdom of Fez (now Morocco) when is was invaded by Portugal in 1415 and was later stolen by Spain.
Dec 07th, 2013 - 09:07 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Melilla was part of the Kingdom of Fez ( now Morocco) when it was invaded and stolen by Spain in 1497.
T the Canary Islands were invaded and stolen from the native Guanches by Spanish invaders at the end of the 15th century.
Gibraltar was legally ceded to the UK forever.
*12 HAHAHA pull the other one!!
Dec 07th, 2013 - 09:19 pm - Link - Report abuse 0*11 NO , Gibraltar was taken by Dutch and British forces fighting for Archduke Charles Of Austria in his campaign to become King Of Spain.Therefore Gibraltar was surrenderd to The Archduke NOT to Queen Anne of England.
The shify Brits pulled a fast one on poor Spain which was in no way able to repel the British and Dutch forces...
Ceuta and Melilla are part of Spain and have the right to choose which country they wish to be part of. They have never shown any desire to be part of Morocco.
Dec 07th, 2013 - 09:36 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Gibraltar is part of the uK and has the right to choose which country they wish to be part of. They have never shown any desire to be part of Spain.
It doesn't matter how it was done, it was done.
The UK is not being two faced on this matter. However Spain is being two faced on this matter. The UK should not change its stance.
The UK's current policy is that all three areas are part of their respective countries and should choose what they desire.
Spain's current policy is that a different standard should apply to Ceuta and Melilla than should apply to Gibraltar. It is not being consistent. This causes problems for Spain and not for the UK.
The UK should not fall into the trap that Spain has found itself in where it argue that each country has different rights with regards to exclaves.
Should Gibraltar end up in front of the ICJ, Spain's policy will do it damage and not help its cause. But the UK's consistency will be a strength.
1/ Ceuta and Melilla are Spanish
2/ Gibraltar is British.
You cannot say that fact 1 is correct without also supporting fact 2 and vice versa.
If you try to state one without stating the other then you have already lost your argument.
Tl;Dr -
Dec 07th, 2013 - 09:59 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Random politician believes two wrongs make a right.
If someone else steals then you can too and its ok.
So now Spain has been stealing land?
Dec 08th, 2013 - 07:43 am - Link - Report abuse 0Quelle surprise! How dare Vestige agrees with so many British posters on here.
Ceuta and Melilla should be given the vote as to whether they want to remain Spanish, join Morocco, become independent or join Britain.
Dec 08th, 2013 - 08:58 am - Link - Report abuse 0Oooh good options. I predict the result in order of preference would be:
Dec 08th, 2013 - 10:23 am - Link - Report abuse 01/ Be part of Spain
2/ Be part of Britain
3/ Become independent
4/ Be part of Morocco
Should Gibraltar be given the same options, I believe the preference would be:
1/ Be part of Britain
2/ Become independent
3/ Be part of Spain
4/ Be part of Morocco
The difference between preference 1 and 2 for the Ceuta and Melilla will be a whole lot narrower than the Gibraltan preferences 1 and 2.
@10
Dec 08th, 2013 - 11:09 am - Link - Report abuse 0You left a little bit out of your history lesson
After the battle of Trafalgar, in 1805, in which French and Spanish lost against Great Britain, the Government of Portugal restored relations with the British, their former allies. This led to the Peninsular War, by which France declared cancelled the Treaty of Badajoz, marching against Portugal again between 1807 and 1810.
On the Portuguese side, the Prince Regent D. John, from his residence in Río de Janeiro, declared void the treaties on 1 may 1808 by have been established through the use of military force.4
The Justice of the Portuguese claims over Olivenza sovereignty were recognized at the Congress of Vienna of 1815.
16 - Anglotino, you say Spain has been stealing land. Then its only right Spain should give Ceuta and Mellila back.
Dec 08th, 2013 - 03:21 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Going by that rule GB should give Gibraltar back. Im fine with that.
Don't forget Catalonia and the Basque Region. Freedom Now!
Dec 08th, 2013 - 05:33 pm - Link - Report abuse 020 - Spain should give Ceuta, Melilla and Canary Islands back.
Dec 08th, 2013 - 06:30 pm - Link - Report abuse 0And give independence referendums to Catalonia and the Basque Region.
Then we can talk.
Oh Vestige when will you learn?
Dec 08th, 2013 - 07:26 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Vestige said:
“If someone else steals then you can too and its ok.”
Anglotino said:
“So now Spain has been stealing land?
Quelle surprise! How dare Vestige agrees with so many British posters on here.”
Vestige said:
“Anglotino, you say Spain has been stealing land.”
You said it Vestige, not me.
Don't put words in my mouth, it just makes you even more pathetic (which I didn't think was possible).
Vestige said:
Dec 08th, 2013 - 11:22 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“If someone else steals then you can too and its ok.”
Cheap shot, taken out of context.
Original was “Random politician believes two wrongs make a right.
If someone else steals then you can too and its ok.”
Anyhoo... maybe Spain did steal land, thats a different story, in the end two wrongs dont make a right. Philip Hollobone mp proposing that they in fact do.
No need for the ad-hom's Anglo.
Ummm yeah!
Dec 09th, 2013 - 12:55 am - Link - Report abuse 0So now you are saying that Philip Hollobone has said that Spain stole something?
Honestly Vestige, what the hell are you saying?
Did Britain steal?
Did Spain steal?
Who the hell is doing the stealing you keep talking about?
@20
Dec 09th, 2013 - 09:37 am - Link - Report abuse 0So in the Vestige world, in no case do the wishes of the inhabitants count for anything?
Not unless they steal those wishes….
Dec 09th, 2013 - 10:17 am - Link - Report abuse 0Which makes no sense. But then again neither does Vestige.
“Philip Hollobone, the Conservative MP for Kettering, also urged the Foreign Office to commission a detailed study comparing Gibraltar’s relationship with the UK to Spain’s relationship with its North African enclaves.”
Dec 09th, 2013 - 10:54 am - Link - Report abuse 0Maybe you missed the inference.
Or just don't understand.
No Hans thats not what I think, thank you for the opportunity to point that out.
@28
Dec 09th, 2013 - 11:00 am - Link - Report abuse 0So what do you think ,exactly? Should the UK be giving Gibraltar back? Should Spain be giving Ceuta and Melilla “back”? What are the rights of the inhabitants in either case?
“Philip Hollobone, the Conservative MP for Kettering, also urged the Foreign Office to commission a detailed study comparing Gibraltar’s relationship with the UK to Spain’s relationship with its North African enclaves.”
Dec 09th, 2013 - 11:22 am - Link - Report abuse 0I clearly don't understand because there is no inference of stealing…..
So still trying to find where the stealing came in to it. Or did it just pop into Vestige's head.
His own words perhaps?
I would call a detailed study just that, a detailed study. Unless someone can post a link to a quote where Hollobone said that Spain stole something, then it is clear that Vestige has just pulled facts out of his a…..
Think Anglo.
Dec 09th, 2013 - 11:06 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Why would Hollobone compare Spains situation with Ceuta(+m) to UK's with Gibraltar.
Difficult I know. Think of it along the lines of 'you're ugly, no you are' 'you're smelly, no you are' 'you're a meanie, no you are'.
You see Anglo this is what naughty Mr. Hollobone is doing.
And he's making a real mess in the kitchen too, oh no! ,whoever shall clean it up.
Look at you UK with your stolen, colonial era, anachronistic, troublesome little tax dodge private member club- Said Spain.
You ought to give it back - said Spain
But naughty Mr Hollobone said to Spain (on the inference telephone), yeah well I think you've got them too, and I sh'ant give it back to you, just like you dont give Ceuta back to Morocco.
Oh dear said the other ministers.
So no quote then!
Dec 10th, 2013 - 12:05 am - Link - Report abuse 0Thanks for clarifying.
Its called inference Anglotino. Some people understand it Anglotino, those who dont are usually not so bright Anglotino.
Dec 16th, 2013 - 01:10 am - Link - Report abuse 0Commenting for this story is now closed.
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