MercoPress. South Atlantic News Agency
Argentina's police strike and looting: a blend of inflation, corruption, impunity and social division
The rash of looting and rioting which has spread to most of Argentina's provinces as the police went on strike or protest demanding better pay and working conditions has taken the political system by surprise, which has been slow in reacting to the gravity of the situation. Read full article
Comments
Disclaimer & comment rulesOld fairy tales and failed wishful thinking...., Mr. Morales Solá...
Dec 10th, 2013 - 11:02 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The police extortion episode is over as we speak....
Time now to focus on “La Maldita Policia”…
Your good friends…
I think the most interesting quote from above is:
Dec 10th, 2013 - 11:10 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“the government message is associated to confrontation and spiraling hate and resentment”
And this is true. When the government makes it a norm to spew bile and hate upon any detractors or opposition, then it is hardly surprising that civil society as a whole takes up that theme.
The fact that one of our resident forum members from Argentina calls it “extortion” just proves my point. When vital workers of Argentine society, who are dealing with 25% inflation and unable to earn a living wage, find they have no possible recourse other than to strike; this is called extortion?
From what I have read, hospital workers are now “extorting” the government so they can actually earn a living wage too.
Kirchnerism is reaping what it has sown over the past decade.
The police strikes/actions/“extortions” are a sympton and not a cause.
The cause is Kirchnerism.
Awwh, ain't that sweet, today Argentina celebrates 30 years of 'democracy'.
Dec 10th, 2013 - 11:11 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Another 30 years and she'll soon be weaned onto solids: give it 50 and than those dang nappies are history baby!
'Now the rash has extended to almost the 24 provinces, has left so far ten people killed, millions of dollars in damaged property,'
Dec 10th, 2013 - 11:18 pm - Link - Report abuse 0That's SOME rash.
PMSL
Dec 10th, 2013 - 11:26 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Maybe they were looting for a good cortisone cream!
Typhoid Mary had nothing on Rash Cristina.
Turnip at (2)
Dec 10th, 2013 - 11:46 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Police strikes are 100% illegal in America (North, Central & South) Europe (UK included), Asia, Africa and even Ozzieland....
Inform yourself....
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Police_strike#Legality
@4 Joe Bloggs
Dec 10th, 2013 - 11:56 pm - Link - Report abuse 0'......That's SOME rash.'
It sounds a bit like the gift that keeps on giving .... Peronism....
Oh Think, how many times have you been told; there is simply NO comparison to be had between Turnip Town and Bananaland; Chalk and Cheese old boy, Chalk and Cheese.
Dec 10th, 2013 - 11:59 pm - Link - Report abuse 0If its just the Police that stand between you and the noose, and Police wages have fallen in value 40% in the last two years you would have to be pretty dumb not to acede to their demands Think? What was the problem couldnt you get out to the Scotch Whiskey shop? Or, did it get looted and there is no more available?
Dec 11th, 2013 - 12:13 am - Link - Report abuse 0I should try here...https://www.timeswhiskyclub.com/?agegate=true#!/ they have a home delivery service.
The won decade / La Decada Ganada like they say.
Dec 11th, 2013 - 12:15 am - Link - Report abuse 0Just look at this.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3XOxwEhGMio#t=125
The more these things happens, the more i can't wait to leave the country.
@6 Oh Dear Thicko..... you really can do better than that link 'Generally, they are illegal,[citation needed] '
Dec 11th, 2013 - 12:16 am - Link - Report abuse 0Even your normally abysmal research is of a higher standard than this...
(11) Frank (the yank)
Dec 11th, 2013 - 12:33 am - Link - Report abuse 0Prove me wrong then, turnip......
Give me 1 (one) link from any Country where police strikes are legal...
Try the USA, yankee...
Try the UK, anglo...
Try Oz, skip...
Sorry Think, I missed the point where I stated that the police actions were legal or illegal.
Dec 11th, 2013 - 12:36 am - Link - Report abuse 0Guess I was too busy talking about the reasons why. But I see why you shy away from that in favour of this.
So thank you for yet again highlighting my points.
Am I wrong to state not all the police went on “strike” in all the provinces? And yet the civil disobedience seems to be spreading far and wide.
Again, as I said. The looting cannot be blamed on the police. It is a sympton of a deeper issue within Argentinean civil society.
So to your Wikipedia link which didn't even back up your claim. But I guess in a modern civil society the form of police strike takes many different forms. Now while you were confident in speaking for the whole of Australia, I am not. Being a federation of sovereign states, we do not have uniform laws. But in Victoria, police can take industrial action. And did so as recently as 2011. You probably didn't hear about that because it didn't cause nation-wide looting.
I quote: “The Police Association must give three clear working days notice to the Victoria Police Force that we intend to begin industrial action”.
Emphasis on the Police Association. We do not ban our police (in Victoria at least) and supress their right to belong to a union.
http://www.tpav.org.au/Publications_and_Media/InBrief/2011_InBriefs/June_2011/1_June.html
I especially like this line from the Police Association:
“The industrial action measures are aimed at causing maximum disruption and inconvenience to the Government without affecting community safety.”
As it should be. Society as a whole should not be punished because of a government. Warning motorists of speed and red light cameras, refusing to use email, refusing to attend court unless subpoenaed, refusing to collect crime statistics etc.
You probably didn't hear about any of that.
Thanks for the opportunity to once again show how badly run your country is and mine isn't.
You're probably hiding again already
No Sunshine.... the onus is on you to back up your statement ... dems de rules....
Dec 11th, 2013 - 12:37 am - Link - Report abuse 0and if they are 100% illegal in South America how come they are striking in Argentina????
Good point Frank.
Dec 11th, 2013 - 12:46 am - Link - Report abuse 0It is usually Think that refuses to partake further with someone until they back up statements made. I think the most recent example of this was a claim of unpaid wages in Chaco province. Think would not comment on anything until that claim was proven.
But I do believe that my link proves that police can strike in Victoria at least.
Strike
/strʌɪk/
noun
a refusal to work organized by a body of employees as a form of protest, typically in an attempt to gain a concession or concessions from their employer.
There is nothing that says it has to be a walkout or that all work must cease. Just a refusal to work.
@Frank
Dec 11th, 2013 - 12:50 am - Link - Report abuse 0The police definitely don't have the right to strike in the UK, they've been campaigning recently for that right. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/law-and-order/9907406/Police-vote-to-demand-right-to-strike-fails.html
Neither do they in Australia. You're right about the rules, but I'm a bit rushed at the moment to find a link. If you really want one let me know.
Just two points for the Turnips....
Dec 11th, 2013 - 12:52 am - Link - Report abuse 01) As I said a couple of hours ago at my post N0 (1),the illegal police strikes (extortion episodes) are over, defeated by a total repudiation from ALL political parties and civil forces in Argentina....
2) Police strikes are illegal almost everywhere in the world. (Rightly so, if I may add)
In Victoria they often work to rule.. ie no speeding tickets issued etc.
Dec 11th, 2013 - 01:14 am - Link - Report abuse 0@17 So why don't the police in Argentina arrest the strikers if the striking police are striking illegally?
Poor old Think it must really get you crazy that an American knows more about your fithy corrupt society than you ever could.
Dec 11th, 2013 - 01:14 am - Link - Report abuse 0The riots have just begun
Govt is as bankrupt as the morals of your people.
I am almost giddy with anticipation.
I hope they catch that witch her disgusting family and minions before they flee.
Shouldn't be too long now.
Just keeps getting more interesting:
Dec 11th, 2013 - 01:20 am - Link - Report abuse 0@ ExpatBsAs
Please don't talk about Australia as if it is one centralised legal jurisdiction. There are 8 police forces in Australia. One federal, 6 state and 1 territorian. All operate under their own individual legal framework. As I have said, I won't speak for all of them but the Victorian Police can and do strike.
@ Think
In comment 1 you stated: “The police extortion episode is over”
Singular.
Now you are saying that ”the illegal police strikes (extortion episodes) are over“
Plural.
It is hard to keep count. But I have seen reports of strikes in 10 provinces. And all have finished.
”defeated by a total repudiation from ALL political parties and civil forces in Argentina“
Really? I also seem to be reading that they were ”defeated“ by caving in to many of the demands and with extremely large pay rises.
Now to the legality of it:
”Police strikes are illegal almost everywhere in the world“
Which is a very different phrase to your earlier claim of ”Police strikes are 100% illegal in America (North, Central & South) Europe (UK included), Asia, Africa and even Ozzieland“
While you have yet AGAIN failed to prove these claims. I have easily refuted your claim of for the whole of ”Ozzieland” - at least in my little corner, police are allowed to strike.
You would have thought that you would have known better than to make blanket claims Think. Seems you get to wear the turnip crown today.
@6 'Police strikes are 100% illegal in America (North, Central & South) Europe (UK included), Asia, Africa and even Ozzieland....'
Dec 11th, 2013 - 01:21 am - Link - Report abuse 0@17 'Police strikes are illegal almost everywhere in the world. '
So what is it Thicko... 100% or almost everywhere or...????
Think says:
Dec 11th, 2013 - 01:52 am - Link - Report abuse 0“the illegal police strikes (extortion episodes) are over, defeated by a total repudiation from ALL political parties and civil forces in Argentina”
I say:
Defeated by repudiation?
Santa Fe – wage increase
Tucumán – wage increase
Corrientes – wage increase
Entre Ríos – wage increase
Chaco – wage increase
Córdoba– wage increase
Buenos Aires Province – wage increase
Neuquén – wage increase
San Juan – wage increase
Catamarca – wage increase
Rio Negro – wage increase
So these “extortion episodes” were solved or avoided by money.
So in which provinces were they “defeated by a total repudiation from ALL political parties and civil forces in Argentina”?
After years of making fun of people that make claims that are so easily proven wrong, you so easily fell into the same trap.
Now I expect a massive amount of hyperlinks and facts to back up all your claims today Think. Get to it.
Chuckle chuckle
Surrendering like that is just asking for more trouble. She should have called in the Army. In 6 months the Police will be back on strike looking for the latest Samsung or Panasonic TV's.
Dec 11th, 2013 - 04:40 am - Link - Report abuse 0@17 Think
Dec 11th, 2013 - 06:08 am - Link - Report abuse 0Think: the last time the police called a strike in Australia was in 1923. They were poorly paid relative to the other states, were denied a pension and had been infiltrated by spies. Riots and looting ensued.
It's an interesting story - I had never heard of it before. Eventually their wages were increased and they were given a pension, but the strikers were fired and were never re-employed by the police force.
As noted above limited industrial action does occur in this country by police forces but the base salary in South Australia for a constable is A$57 000. With overtime added you can make a lot more. About ten years ago, when our economy was really motoring - and causing labour shortages - we were even hiring British police officers to work here. Good coppers they were too. They were older and less macho than their younger colleagues.
Any society that doesn't keep it's coppers happy is asking for trouble and the looters are simply reflecting the moral bankruptcy of their leadership. JMHO.
People are now starting to take the law into their own hands , arming themselves and shooting looters .
Dec 11th, 2013 - 10:07 am - Link - Report abuse 0Any day now , armed groups of militants from La Campora will appear on the streets to restore “ order ” .
It looks to me like a government attempt to overthrow the established forces of law and order and replace them with peoples' militias .
The armed forces are already powerless , now they provoke the police to self destruct ....
LOL
Dec 11th, 2013 - 11:04 am - Link - Report abuse 0This propaganda free thread bought to you by Anglotino and Frank…..
When you need to deThink a thread, call the Ozzies!
@6, 12, 17. If you were to actually READ the article. And then the largely irrelevant wiki article for which you posted a link, you might start to get an idea of the real problems. The wiki article notes that “police are generally treated better than other public sector workers” and “police wages, which had historically been exceptional, declined relative to the wages of other workers.”
Dec 11th, 2013 - 11:34 am - Link - Report abuse 0The “legality” of police strikes is largely irrelevant. Because the way it works is this: First, the “government” enables better employment conditions, including salaries and wages, than the “ordinary” worker as their bulwark against “the people”. Over time, “the people” start to object to this as they see the police as an overpaid instrument of repression. Worth noting that the wiki article mentions “the job they do on behalf of the public”. The “tipping point” comes when “the people” can no longer see the police doing a job on their behalf. Huge resentment leads to politicians to allow police conditions to fall back. The police, drawn from the ranks of “the people”, resent their loss of status and money. And so, police strikes. Because the police know that the only body that can act against them is the armed forces. Frequently less well-paid than the police. Why would the police be concerned about the “legality” of their actions when there is no-one to arrest them? And also, possibly, that courts will refuse to try them.
But the next steps can be even more disconcerting. The “government” finds that it no longer has support. It may be ejected. And a new “government” needs to find a new balance. “The people” demand better conditions for themselves. The police can only have the status that “the people” find acceptable. Provided they work on behalf of “the people”. Government sycophants usually lose out in this process. They may even be lynched!
22. I think the Police wages are going up 50% immediately and 100% by eoy 2014.
Dec 11th, 2013 - 12:21 pm - Link - Report abuse 0What does that tell us children?
Hyperinflation has reached wage demands
Now it will start popping up in all kinds of places.
Like pushing on a balloon
Thinkaroo come on say it, you were right Yankeeboy, it'll be tough but come try it, You were right Yankeeboy and I was wrong. There don't you feel better.
I hope the military keeps a close eye on the witch, her family and minions even someone as out of touch as she is knows the end is nigh.
Think obviously didn't watch the news last night. While the president was throwing her party, Tucuman was up in smoke with unrest.
Dec 11th, 2013 - 01:11 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Who's the Turnip now?
29. There's still plenty of rioting going on this is not the end. CFK doesn't have enough pesos to quell this furor.
Dec 11th, 2013 - 01:38 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Solid practical advice for you Think
Dec 11th, 2013 - 01:47 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Preparing for Widespread Looting & Rioting
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rLA_NlzybDk
Thinks gone on strike until he gets a new Land Dover.
Dec 11th, 2013 - 04:42 pm - Link - Report abuse 0TWIMC
Dec 11th, 2013 - 05:45 pm - Link - Report abuse 0As I said yesterday at my post No.(1), the police extortion episode is over... Peace all over the place...
http://www.pagina12.com.ar/diario/ultimas/20-235427-2013-12-11.html
The hunt is now on against the “Maldita Policía”.......
@33 Think
Dec 11th, 2013 - 06:02 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Peace all over the place?
I don't 'think' so.
There is still looting going on, some of the police forces haven't accepted the pay increases yet, and increasing wages by 50-100% is a sign that inflation is going through the roof.
This isn't the end...it is only the beginning of another implosion for Argentina.
Last time Argentina defaulted on the 'foreigners' this time it is defaulting on it's own people.
Things are going to get far worse before they get better.
But with the government ignoring the problems (it can't be their policies so it must be a 'conspiracy' against them), and printing peso's like mad, Argentina's economy will collapse, and badly.
And when the economy collapses, it is always the government that is blamed...because it is THEIR fault.
It's about time this Argentine government grew up and started accepting responsibility for the mess Argentina is in, and DO SOMETHING about it.
IGNORING IT won't work.
(34) Artemis Fowl
Dec 11th, 2013 - 06:12 pm - Link - Report abuse 0As your handle suggest; just old fairy tales and failed wishful thinking....
@ Think
Dec 11th, 2013 - 07:16 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“Peace all over the place...”
Just to be clear, are you saying this is now over???
Not to be repeated in the next few weeks????
Or at least until the next wage round!
@35 Think
Dec 11th, 2013 - 07:36 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Sure there's peace all over the place. It must be true if you said it? Of course all the news reports don't seem to have got your memo.
Hyperinflation coming to Argentine very soon.
Keep burying your head in the sand, but it won't alter the outcome of your beloved Cristina's disastrous fiscal policies.
Except Salta and Tucuman...right Think?
Dec 11th, 2013 - 07:49 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Riots up, Peso Crashing
Any correlation
Nah
none at all
Funny they're mostly stealing food
that many hungry people during the won decade?
What shall we expect next
I think I know
TWIMC
Dec 11th, 2013 - 08:08 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Let’s see what the biggest opposition Financial Newspaper in Argentina writes about today…......................... Shall we ?
Black Market Dollar going down…:
http://www.ambito.com/noticia.asp?id=720042
UN-ECLAC increases Argentina’s 2013 Economic Growth Projection to 4.5%...:
http://www.ambito.com/noticia.asp?id=720042
Pope Francis Time’s Person of the Year…:
http://www.ambito.com/noticia.asp?id=720042
As I said before…… All respires peace and quietness down here……. Except for the first arrests of corrupt and seditious policeman and other criminal elements all over the Country….
And the gov't peso rate is doing what?
Dec 11th, 2013 - 08:35 pm - Link - Report abuse 0And inflation is heading in which direction?
Aren't Tucuman and Salta down there?
4.5% growth and 50% inflation...that's spillover
and it will never be that high, i'll be right and you'll be wrong same time next year
You THINK you'd learn
@ 39 Lunatic of Chew Butt
Dec 11th, 2013 - 09:20 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Instead of lying and obfuscating (in your usual manner) try a REAL opposition paper if you want to know the truth!
Hush my mouth: truth and “Think” it HAS to be an oxymoron for a moron:
http://www.clarin.com/politica/tension_social-saqueos-conflicto_policial-tucuman_0_1045695752.html
Looks like the Governor is going to get a rubber bullet enema!
OR this, Chubut no less: aren’t you pleased to see your area in this light?
http://www.clarin.com/politica/tension_social-saqueos-conflicto_policial-tucuman_0_1045695752.html
Keep lying Lunatic; nobody will believe anything you post soon because you lie all the time.
From your favourite, who keeps you in line?
Ha, ha, ha.
OMG will someone please send the looters around to El Turnip of Chubut and put him out of his misery!
Dec 12th, 2013 - 01:02 am - Link - Report abuse 0So let’s recap:
Turnip backed away from this claim after being unable to back it up:
“Police strikes are 100% illegal in America (North, Central & South) Europe (UK included), Asia, Africa and even Ozzieland....”
And proven wrong.
Then Turnip backed away from this claim after being unable to back it up:
“the illegal police strikes (extortion episodes) are over, defeated by a total repudiation from ALL political parties and civil forces in Argentina....”
And proven wrong. Money stopped the strikes not this imaginary repudiation.
So what did he follow up with on his TRIFECTA OF TURNIPITY?
“UN-ECLAC increases Argentina’s 2013 Economic Growth Projection to 4.5%...:
www.ambito.com/noticia.asp?id=720058 “
Read you turnip read! Guess what the inflation rate for Argentina is stated by ECLAC in the document mentioned: ‘Preliminary Overview of the Economies of Latin America and the Caribbean’.
10.5%
And we all know how true that figure is!
“All respires peace and quietness down here”
Sure sure, because everything else this turnip has said in the past day was so believable.
He should have stayed on strike.
Dec 12th, 2013 - 03:21 am - Link - Report abuse 0No wonder Thicko thinks all is quiet... they have started locking up the journos... http://www.argentinaindependent.com/currentaffairs/journalist-arrested-in-santiago-del-estero-charged-with-sedition/
Dec 12th, 2013 - 05:20 am - Link - Report abuse 0Frank
Dec 12th, 2013 - 09:45 am - Link - Report abuse 0Can't wait to see how El Turnip twists that story. Police bashing police. Judges VERBALLY ordering raids to confiscate and silence dissent. Private property being illegal seized.
Scratch the surface a little and the police state is waiting just below the surface.
@45 Anglotino
Dec 12th, 2013 - 12:45 pm - Link - Report abuse 0With the Gendarmerie increasingly having to intervene between the Police and protesters, I don’t think the Police could control the country at this point.
Hey Think, you know how you said there's peace all over the place, it looks like that was a lie, wasn't it?
Dec 12th, 2013 - 04:01 pm - Link - Report abuse 0In Salta the police have rejected the 50% pay rise offer, and in Buenos Aires the Teamsters have caused chaos during a protest demanding a better end of year bonus.
If they don't get it they have promised to take nation wide action.
http://www.buenosairesherald.com/article/147336/teamsters-stage-protest-over-endofyear-bonus
http://www.buenosairesherald.com/article/147336/teamsters-stage-protest-over-endofyear-bonus
So this is peace all over the place, is it?
SOME OTHER IMPORTANT DETAILLS.
Dec 12th, 2013 - 06:36 pm - Link - Report abuse 0F) According to our interior security law, main responsable authorities of security are the provinces, federal government can intervene only when governors aks it.
G) Since 1983, most governors have always been too coward in order to democratize security forces, beside, they let them get their own money with illegal bussiness.
H) Policemen know perfectly that although they have right to claim for a better salary, they can't do any strike, because they can't leave our citizens without protection.
I) All those people who participated in the different lootings are no more than thieves, poverty is the most pathetic excuse that anybody can use, in fact, most people in this country weren't born in palaces, however most them don't steal absolutly anything, beside, if it soposes that they are hungry, i wonder what were many of them doing stealing goods at shops of electric products.
J) Only somebody who doesn't live in this country can believe morales sola's soposed corcerning in relation to our social problems. Most people in this forum don't know that he is just a political operator of the clarin, who has always defended the economic interests of powerful corporations, every time that c. f. k's government decided to recover different enterprices, sold during the decade of the 90's. So, he is the same hypocrite who now pretends to be so worried about the high levels of social unequality that we still have in the country.
K) It's absolutly necesary to carry on a federal democratization of our security forces, among all the governors and the president. Cristina has a huge resposability in this issue, because she's the only one leader in the country who has enough bravery in order to start with this necesary change. After 30 years of democracy, we can't let security forces to continue to extort constitutional governments.
@ 48 axel argie
Dec 12th, 2013 - 07:17 pm - Link - Report abuse 0What happened to A), B), C), D), & E)?
Or is this what you “teach” in your classroom?
I won’t even bother to answer the drivel in J) regarding Clarin and K) regarding TMBOA who has single-handedly created this fiasco.
ChrisR, even he recognised that A to E were a load of crap!
Dec 12th, 2013 - 07:43 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Hey Axel. Welcome to your new future. This is the country that your wonderful president is bequeathing to her sycophantic followers. Don't start complaining now.
You WANTED it and you GOT it!
It's absolutly necesary to carry on a federal democratization of our security forces,
Dec 12th, 2013 - 08:50 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Ahh back to the national military patolling the streets
You get dumber with every post Axel
Your $250/wage is almost here
give it another month
@48 axel arg
Dec 13th, 2013 - 04:47 pm - Link - Report abuse 0After 10 years in power, how can this CFK gov, not be responsible for this overall situation?
CHIRSR. ANGLOTINO.
Dec 14th, 2013 - 08:21 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Beyond the tipicall stupid ironies that you both and some other forists often express in relation to my political lectures, i can only tell you that in my comment 48, i pretended to make a continuation of what the political analist dated in this report started, who had made a list from A to E.
PUGOL-H: I understand that many of you love blaming c. f. k. for absolutly everything that happens in this country, however, reality is much more complicated than the usuall too partial lectures that many of you often do.
In my comment 48, i tell who are the main responsable authorities of public security in this country, beside, i also tell about a necesary change democratization of federal forces.
Commenting for this story is now closed.
If you have a Facebook account, become a fan and comment on our Facebook Page!