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Madrid vows to block any independence referendum in Catalonia
The Spanish government has vowed to block plans by parties in Catalonia to hold a referendum on independence on 9 November of next year. “The poll will not be held,” Justice Minister Alberto Ruiz-Gallardon told journalists moments after Catalonia's President, Artur Mas, announced a deal. Read full article
Comments
Disclaimer & comment rulesThe EU and Nato have warned
Dec 13th, 2013 - 02:18 pm - Link - Report abuse 0all mouth and no trousers,
Spain will collapse,
shame on you Spain,, shame on you.. ?
The Scots seem to believe they can negotiate continued membership of the EU and it is Spain that has been the one to come out and stated forcefully that they can't - because of the precedent it would set in relation to Catalonia.
Dec 13th, 2013 - 02:29 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Therefore “the EU has warned” could be construed to mean “Spain has warned”
Either way nothing will actually change in relation to the status of Gibraltar, Catalonia or Scotland - the last of which will not vote to leave the union.
There will be no split from Scotland or Catalonia!! Europe does not want any mini-states....
Dec 13th, 2013 - 02:46 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I think this does demonstrate the vast gulf between the British and the Spanish.
Dec 13th, 2013 - 02:59 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Scotland - we are leaving
British - fine, close the door on your way out
Catalonia - we are leaving
Spain - you will have a job handcuffed to the bed.
Very sad and it will end in a mess.
@3 Catalonia has a population of about 7.5 million people.
Dec 13th, 2013 - 03:10 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Within the EU:
Denmark has a population of 5.6 million
Finland has a population of 5.4 million
Ireland has a population of 4.5 million
Croatia has a population of 4.3 million
Lithuania has a population of 3 million
Estonia has a population of 1.3 million
Luxemburg has a population of half a million
Malta has a population of 400,000
*4 yep!!It will end in a mess for the catalans!! second time round.Mas, The Catalan president is not the first.There has already been another Catalan by the name of LLuis Companys and the catalans know what happened to him!! Maybe this Mas wants to go the same way!! my opinion
Dec 13th, 2013 - 03:13 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The mess will be with the whole of Spain, they are handling it really badly.
Dec 13th, 2013 - 03:40 pm - Link - Report abuse 0They are pissing off the Catalans, the Basque, the Gibraltarians, the British and the Moroccans. That coupled with massive unemployment, an economy on its arse, which the Germans are openly saying is not going to recover and they will end up footing the bill. foreign countries expropriating their company's.
Its a big fooking mess and it will blow up soon.
No the CATALANS ARE PISSING OFF THE SPANIARDS and when they get pissed off God help the Catalans....
Dec 13th, 2013 - 03:45 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Just to be clear, what the EC said (in the mouth piece of Barroso) was that, Catalunya and/or Scotland would have to re-negotiate the terms of their EU membership, they could not join automatically on their existing terms.
Dec 13th, 2013 - 03:46 pm - Link - Report abuse 0It would seem they don’t want any new net recipient countries, only net payers.
Scotland for example would be most unlikely to keep any “opt outs”, or rebate from the CAP.
As to whether Spain could delay or even stall/stop any such process, is the question.
Delay probably, stall or stop most unlikely.
6
Dec 13th, 2013 - 03:50 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Or it will end in a mess for Madrid the Catalan region has a greater population and also a greater GDP than the Madrid region...
A Spanish Civil war anyone....
Have the Spanish got any regional friends....France has an overspill of Catalans all along the border...wouldn't look to France for support...Portugal have issues and Brits on the isthmus...
....help we're surrounded by enemies....
10 A_Voice
Dec 13th, 2013 - 03:56 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Don’t forget Morocco.
@3 You mean places like Andorra, Liechtenstein, Luxembourg, Monaco.
Dec 13th, 2013 - 05:20 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@6 Like your “opinion” is worth gnats' piss. Wonder how the French will feel. Northern Catalonia is in France.
@8 Like Spaniards frighten anyone. Spaniards are no different to argies. Piss on them and they dissolve.
Spain cannot afford (in any sense) to let Catalonia become independent.
Dec 13th, 2013 - 05:55 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Britain can afford for Scotland to become Independent.
The EU can (just) afford to let Britain leave.
The EU cannot afford to let Spain stay, if it no longer has Catalonia.
Spain cannot afford to leave the EU.
- - - -
I think that Spain are doing Catalonia's separatism a great service... in a similar way that Argentina do a great job promoting the Falklands...the entire “politics of negativism” just always backfires.. why don't they learn?
----
I fail to see much, if any, significance in the NATO relationship... I doubt the EU said Catalonia would be EXCLUDED, I expect they mean, just as with Scotland, that they would have to re-apply to join.
Which is very different to EXCLUDED
What a civilised nation would, and could do is –
Dec 13th, 2013 - 07:00 pm - Link - Report abuse 0State categorically that Gibraltar is free to do as she pleases,
Without harm interference or hindrance,
But then Spain is not civilised is she…
But the British still help them regardless….
.
Actually Catalunya would not have to go through the whole process of applying for membership. Catalunya can remain in the EU under article 48 of the Lisbon Treaty.
Dec 13th, 2013 - 08:48 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Catalunya already is a member of the EU as part of Spain and it would seem the EU has the ability to alter the Treaty to create a continuation of membership. The EU would not really gain anything by making Catalunya start from scratch and it will be mindful of the precedent that is being set as this may be the first case but probably won't be the last case.
The EU can be pragmatic when it needs to and it will be so if there is an independent Catalunya.
Gift to Barcelona.
Dec 14th, 2013 - 01:18 am - Link - Report abuse 0https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6b-RehmqZUE&list=FLmXPTu1f8AdGlizWNiASx2A
PORTUGAL!
Agreed Brasilerio
Dec 14th, 2013 - 01:27 am - Link - Report abuse 0Catalunya could be independent like Portugal.
Richer too.
Who cares? It's just Spain and United Kingdom.
Dec 14th, 2013 - 05:37 am - Link - Report abuse 0When a real important EU country (Germany, France, Italy) has issues, then it will be news. Those are the only three members that matter, especially the first one.
Spain is too small in population and the UK to alien (wink wink) from the EU they don't matter or threaten the EU's existence.
If the other three have problems though, that is a fundamental problem for the EU.
They are watching closely, these first attempts to a unified Earth government. But they know it takes usually 15-25 human centuries from the first attempts to finally get a planetary nation state.
Italy? LOL
Dec 14th, 2013 - 05:51 am - Link - Report abuse 03rd biggest Euro-zone economy, so I'm not quite getting your confusion.
Dec 14th, 2013 - 06:14 am - Link - Report abuse 0Those are the three countries that are too “big” to fail, or be rescued, by the EU if they entered a terminal crisis. Everyone knows that!
It seems you seem to be a racist against Italians, typical characteristic of the Anglo race. Fascinating.
Yes Italians are now a race! A different race to “Anglos”.
Dec 14th, 2013 - 06:56 am - Link - Report abuse 0Lucky I'm now mixed race.
Eurozone and EU are not always interchangeable. Good try though. Your one constant is that you cant argue.
Look Anglos have seething hatred for see humans: Italians, Spaniards, and Argentines. They are notorious around the world for this trait. Everyone knows it.
Dec 14th, 2013 - 07:12 am - Link - Report abuse 0One can understand their hatred of the Argentines. Lost three times in battle to them vs only one victory. In football lost two of three sudden-death matches in the world cups of human foot sphere games. In territory lost their chance to gain Patagonia when the Anglo settlers there decided to join Argentina. Those hurt.
Not sure about the Spanish, and no clue why the hating of Italians.
You claim I cannot argue, yet you take so long to respond to my quick retorts, that at times it appears to me you took a one-way hike to Kalkajaka. Be careful on Black Mountain.
I'm not saying there is a trans-dimensional portal there, but...
If there is a civil war the UK should freeze all Spanish Assets.
Dec 14th, 2013 - 09:07 am - Link - Report abuse 0@22 GBT,
Dec 14th, 2013 - 11:20 am - Link - Report abuse 0“Lost 3 times in battle vs only 1 victory”
Yes but what a victory! Worth those 3 times we “lost”
And it should be spelled with a capital V!
It was so overwhelming.
Thank you Mr “everyone knows it” GBT(who knows very little).
Three, one. Threee, one. Three, one!
Dec 14th, 2013 - 11:30 am - Link - Report abuse 0Three, one. Three, one. Three, one!
(imagine that was a football chant).
Salutory lesson for you there, me old mucka!
Sticking to you football anology,
YOU SHOULD AVOID AWAY FIXTURES.
@15 You'll have to explain. I don't see how Article 48 helps Catalonia. All it does is outline a revision procedure. And there are all sorts of caveats.
Dec 14th, 2013 - 11:31 am - Link - Report abuse 0@18 Someone has already had a laugh about Italy. And France is close to the edge. Meanwhile, the UK is doing fine thanks. Economy improving, unemployment falling, EU migrant scroungers being busted.
@20 By 3 different measures, Italy is either 4th or 5th. But always BEHIND the UK. And yes, I know that the UK isn't in the eurozone. Sensible UK!
@22 “Seething” means “angry” or “livid”. I wonder why “Anglos” should have a “seething” hatred of people that illegally invaded British territory, committed war crimes and takes the same attitude today. By the way, Britain has NEVER lost to argies. Not once. Any “hatred” is also based on the argie insistence on lying. As you have just done. I suppose you have to when you're outclassed. Then there's Spaniards. Aggressive, arrogant cowards that breach international laws. Universal Declaration of Human Rights, European Convention on Human Rights. Illegal incursions into territory of another country. Disproportionate interference with “free movement”. Unauthorised use of firearms in British territory. Armed attack on a British Gibraltar citizen. Unauthorised “official” actions in British territory. Also invade British territory. But for the EU, it would probably have been bombed by now. Italy? Don't care. Those tanks with five reverse gears and one forward were a good idea. Who knows? Italian cowardice might have shortened WW2!
@23 Should do it anyway. UK should also inhibit travel to and from Spain by any means. “Accidentally” ram and sink any Spanish boats found in British waters. Dismantle all Spanish trucks trying to enter the UK.
“”“3rd biggest Euro-zone economy, so I'm not quite getting your confusion. ”“”“
Dec 14th, 2013 - 11:50 am - Link - Report abuse 0his confusion is possibly because the UK is not even in the Eurozone, and that the UK economy is bigger than Italy by almost 30% in GDP. So claiming that Italy is more important than the UK to the Euro-zone is pretty silly.
”“”Look Anglos have seething hatred for see humans: Italians, Spaniards, and Argentines. They are notorious around the world for this trait. Everyone knows it.“”“
the only xenophobia provided in that sentence is by the writer.
”“”You claim I cannot argue, yet you take so long to respond to my quick retorts, “”“”
since when did speed of reply suggest quality of reply? ... especially on a forum with people living in different time-zones. Very dumb argument and you rather proved the point you were supposed to be arguing against.
:-)
TTT's self-hatred grows daily.
Dec 14th, 2013 - 12:23 pm - Link - Report abuse 028 Elaine
Dec 14th, 2013 - 03:28 pm - Link - Report abuse 0and his trolley has really jumped its tracks now.
I honestly don't know why anyone bothers to respond to him.
:-)
@ 28 & @ 29
Dec 14th, 2013 - 03:50 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I gave up reading what he posts a long time ago and only respond when he berates me via another topic or response.
I can remember when he had an intellect then he suddenly stopped posting and when he returned he told us he had been taking drugs to ‘help him’ work. Well they really did a good job those drugs.
@30 It would explain the paranoia, delusion and self-hatred.
Dec 14th, 2013 - 05:36 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@18
Dec 14th, 2013 - 06:43 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The UK contributes more money to EU coffers than Italy.
If the UK leaves, whether the EU likes UK or not, they will miss the UK's money.
Catalonia gets independence then votes to join the UK as a BOT.
Dec 15th, 2013 - 02:09 am - Link - Report abuse 0Aarh the poetry
Nothing is impossible nowadays lol.
Dec 15th, 2013 - 04:06 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The EU will also miss the UK's influence with the US. No matter what the trolls say, we still have the largest influence in Washington than any other nations.
Dec 15th, 2013 - 09:03 pm - Link - Report abuse 0That intelligence sharing deal is no small feat.
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