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Forces line up for Scotland's September vote on independence: Hague in Glasgow
UK Foreign Secretary and Chief Secretary of the Treasury are scheduled to launch on Friday in Glasgow a Scotland analysis paper, the first in the series to be published since the launch of the Scottish Government’s White Paper in November. Next September Scotland is holding a vote on independence. Read full article
Comments
Disclaimer & comment rulesThe English government intend to continue stealing Scotland's money and resources.
Jan 15th, 2014 - 04:38 am - Link - Report abuse 0Put down the bottle for a minute and get yourselves and independent country.
Sounds like a mature approach to the independence movement in Scotland.
Jan 15th, 2014 - 06:14 am - Link - Report abuse 0It is a pity that countries such as Spain and Argentina can't be as mature.
It takes great resolve for a country to allow a sub-national part of it to vote on leaving. There are few countries that would allow this.
This is good news for Scotland, for far too long the Scottish people have been listening to the one-sided rants of Salmond.
Jan 15th, 2014 - 07:38 am - Link - Report abuse 0His so called “White Paper” is flawed on so many levels, and is no more than a wish list. To become part of the EU and NATO is costly, and Salmond has not looked into the legal tachnicalities of becoming a member.
1 Ano all that Scots oil successfully recovered for the benefit of the British. But hang on 50 years of North Sea Oil about to expire, what about the 100 years of English Shale gas about to begin? Scots maybe rough, ready and tough but they ain't stupid ......like Argies.
Jan 15th, 2014 - 08:00 am - Link - Report abuse 0Nice review Marcos, how informative bwhahahaha!
Jan 15th, 2014 - 08:07 am - Link - Report abuse 0Salmond was badly found out when questioned and spent a great deal of money trying to suppress a request for information regarding the question of if he sought legal advice.
Essentially his white paper is a list of things he would like to do, most of them aren't likely to happen. For instance maintaining the pound as their currency and being able to manage aspects of it with London. Clearly that's not going to happen where Scotland leave the union and then London gives Scotland the ability to manage aspects of the currency outside of the union. I think he's got more chance of winning the lottery.
He also mentions staying in the EU, yet the head of the EU has made it clear that Scotland would fall outside of the EU on its own and have to apply to join, a process which takes several years and is extremely expensive.
Most telling of all, in nearly 700 pages of this white paper there is only figures on a single page. Clearly a large proportion of a white paper on such matters needs to be devoted to Scotland's fiscal future.
I believe in Scotland's right to choose as I believe in self-determination.
An Independent Scotland? All those Scottish Labour MPs gone from Parliament and Labour never in power again...bring it on. Don't bother Mr Hague.
Jan 15th, 2014 - 09:27 am - Link - Report abuse 0#1
Jan 15th, 2014 - 11:14 am - Link - Report abuse 0Marcos, when you know what you are talking about, maybe we will listen to you. You just speak in clichés
#6
It may have escaped your notice BUT English voters also vote labour.
Greater London have 44 labour seats.....more than Scotland...so blame them !!
If they did not vote in this way then the Tories would get in.
However, in your philosophy, it's more satisfying to blame the Scots for ALL the problems of the UK.
Yes, life would be so much better with a one party state......for the minority.
The Tories could roll back the clock to their great days...no NHS, no rights for union membership, transportation to the colonies for stealing a loaf of bread, invading countries and taking them over. Subservient attitudes to your betters. Bring it on !!
@1 Corrections. There is NO “English” government. Scotland has NO money. (Similar to argieland). It's in debt. Again. (Similar to argieland). It owes England more than £2 quadrillion for the last time it was “saved”. Scotland has NO resources. Careful examination of FACTS and the inclinations of PEOPLE indicate that much of the gas and oil Scotland thinks it has belongs to the Shetland Islands. People inclined, in the event of a split, to stick with the UK. And looking at boundaries is good as well. Scotland won't have the “territorial waters” it thinks it will have. It couldn't even defend what it's allowed anyway!
Jan 15th, 2014 - 01:10 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@7 Oh no, we English don't blame the Scots for ALL our problems. Let's see now, over time we've had to contend with Blair (Scottish), Brown (Scottish), Darling (Scottish), Alexander (Scottish). And ginger as well! Then there's the freebies that Scots get but the English pay for but don't get. The £2 quadrillion that Scotland OWES England, dating back to around 1700, and with a bit of interest. In between times, we English have defended Scotland at our cost. Despite Scots being well known raiders, murderers, slavers, rustlers, rapists, thieves. And how may we wind up this “partnership”? Showing no inclination to repay its existing debt to England, Scotland will be happy to offload even more debt AND try to steal 9% of UK assets as well. Is there no end to Scottish irresponsibility and thievery? And where are the ordinary Scots in all of this? A lot of them are in England, taking English jobs, incomes, housing. At least, with Scottish independence, we can look forward to expelling these thieves. English women who have married Scots can have their heads shaved and their foreheads tattooed with the saltire. Stoned as they trek north. Off to the land of the crofts and sheep-shaggers. Like some little place like Scotland could bother the UK. Like 5 million could bother 58 million.
Conqueror would appear to have enough troubles of his own.
Jan 15th, 2014 - 02:49 pm - Link - Report abuse 09 Bongo (#)
Jan 15th, 2014 - 04:08 pm - Link - Report abuse 0sounds like an Argie! like them appears to be lost!
Hi Clyde,
Jan 15th, 2014 - 05:17 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Nothing against the Scots, nice people generally. Losing Scotland is a convenient way of getting the government that represents us in the South of England. My old man was a founder member of the Labour party and I agree on all the great things done by Atlee and Bevan etc. But its the economic mismanagement, toleration of scroungers and the stupidty of admitting milions of immigrants in a short space of time by Labour principally that's riled me. Its got too crowded down here, our public services and transport has become overburdened, not enough jobs for our youngsters, and its all very painful to sort out. The Tories are making us suffer, but it is principally Labours fault. Ken Clarke left an excellent balance shhet in 97, and Brown totally trashed it and created a false housing boom that ruined our economy. So if Scotland goes, England will be a better place in the long run. The pink president Salmond is a very effective polictrician, trouble is he is a one trick pony and there is no effective opposition. My pals in Scotland all say they will move South if he gets his way, that will make us even more crowded ! You live in a wonderful place, pity about the policies of your government. I will be there at Celtic Connections soon, looking forward to it.
I wonder how many Scots that vote for independence, wished that they changed their minds when they find out it aint going to be as rosy a future as 'King Alex' likes to portray.
Jan 15th, 2014 - 05:48 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The Humphrey Applebys in Whitehall have no doubt been number crunching in the run up to this vote but I'm not sure Salmond has got access to the figures or he'd have put forward a more detailed plan in advance. Certainly something better than his list to Father Christmas which appears to be all that he can produce, well that and his William Wallace war cry...
Until a full picture is given, I'd be skeptical of voting. This may lead to quite a low 'for' vote being cast. I can just here Alex now, railing against the sassenachs and putting the failure of his plan squarely on their shoulders...
#8
Jan 15th, 2014 - 05:53 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Correction..England has even less money !
5 Million Scots against 58 Million English...seems fair odds to me if they are all loud mouthed cyber warriors like you who could not fight his way out of a paper bag. I have more respect for the English people than you obviously do.
Are you actually English ?
Taking English jobs ? Maybe it's because they have more skills than the English who applied for them. What you are saying is that the English are giving jobs to Scots although the English applicants are more suitable. What a generous but misguided nation.
You keep referring to the UK when what you really mean is England.
Never mind, if the Scots do move out with their English wives, we can easily be replaced by the hordes of Romanians, Bulgarians, Spanish, Pakistanis, Afghanis, and Sudanese waiting to come to your fair and rather unpleasant land until you are shoulder to shoulder.
We will then reinforce Hadrian's wall and invite any Northern English to come and join us.
Then you will be able to leave the EU and watch all the investment disappear abroad, lose you seat on the security council and sail off into well deserved obscurity.
As you expect the Scots to repay some mythical figure from your imagination, I presume, in equity, you are prepared to repay England's ex-colonies of India, Africa, W.Indies etc the sepzillions you stole from them ?
You're a real nut job.
Clyde
Jan 15th, 2014 - 06:11 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Have the Scottish Gvt. produced anything that 'ACTUALLY' states what the pros and cons are for independence?
It's hard to get a gauge of how things would stand should you go independent. All I see is the positives being talked up on both sides of the argument, not the nasty negatives.
(PS Your offer to include any Northern English, I have a plan to increase the size of Scotland should you go independent. Yorkshire will split from England and happily join you! We will also be rid of Ed Balls so there are some great positives for us!)
#14
Jan 15th, 2014 - 09:59 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The Scottish govt. are unlikely to produce any “cons” against the independence debate,
I have heard doom laden scenarios from the cons side and conversely glowing reports from the pro lobby.. The answer will be somewhere in between, What has surprised me have been some interviews on Radio Scotland with economists, international lawyers and foreign politicians who have no axe to grind, refuting many of Whitehall's pronouncements on how we would be almost pariah like in the EU, UN or any world organisations.
The main problem on finance is that the Treasury will not discuss the figures. We keep getting told that OUR debt is greater per capita than the rest of the UK and then other economists say that it is actually the reverse.
I don't think that economics will be the deciding factor. It will be on an emotional level. What is the common thread that keeps us together ?
As a youngster, growing up after the war , I felt British.
My brother served 12 years in the RAF,my sister was a nurse serving in Gibraltar and Kenya . She now retired to Plymouth 12 years ago.
I worked in London in 1961 and felt at home with the Cockneys.
The last time I was in London, I felt I could have been in any city in the world. I hardly heard a native English speaker. I visit the Rutland Bird Fair each August and stay in Peterborough. In the Tescos again there seem to be very few“English”people about.
I now feel England is a foreign country in the South East and find it difficult to feel any close connection. I am fairly regularly in Cumbria, Lancashire and Tyneside and like the people. I worked for years with Lancastrians and Yorkshiremen and got on great with them. They were no different from me - equally bloody minded and said what they thought.
Politically, Thatcher did for the Tory party in Scotland. The nightmare scenario up here is a permanent Tory govt. who have no interest outside the Home Counties. They do not represent us. What is the choice ?---there's the rub !
Clyde, if you go outside the big towns that's where the English are. Quite a few East Europeans but not many from Africa India or the Caribbean. Maggie was like the curates egg, she stopped us being dominated by the unions, but went too far in other ways for sure. Now you have Salmond, a strong leader with his own policies - give me Maggie any day !
Jan 15th, 2014 - 10:42 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Thank you for your response Clyde.
Jan 15th, 2014 - 11:03 pm - Link - Report abuse 0What you said makes much sense. A Nationalist agenda appears to drive the debate, I just worry that Alex is over extending himself and might just drop you all in the shit. Not a pleasant thought.
Whitehall is as Whitehall does. Sir Humphrey playing a poker game. I've a sneaky suspicion that they have a slightly better hand. The loss wont be quite as bad to Scotland should independence occur, though it is a tight game at the moment.
''I now feel England is a foreign country in the South East'' Exactly the sentiment I feel when crossing the M25 'border'. In case you have not guessed I'm no fan of the Londoncentric politik either.
Whatever the outcome, being in Scotland will still be good (and driving around the fantastic twisties will still be a thrill! :) )
#16
Jan 15th, 2014 - 11:27 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Yes Salmond is a strong leader and can probably run rings round most of our current lot in Westminster BUT when it comes to the vote he does not necessarily pull the Scottish electorate with him. From the point of view of swaying the public, you have to watch Nicola Sturgeon.
She is razor sharp and comes over eminently sensible.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-25735989
The difference is that Maggie was the UK Prime Minister and never really understood “ the industrial working class ” and had her own agenda to change Britain from a manufacturing country into a service based economy. It just so happened that the bulk of the industrial population were up north and in Scotland. Whole areas were devastated and nothing put in their place. The unemployed had no work to turn to unless they moved south, but the price of housing made it impossible to move. Council houses were sold off making housing availability even more impossible. You can hardly expect a 50 year old miner or steel worker to retrain as a call centre operator or be an office worker using a computer.
At present, the SNP are doing a popular job with the Scottish populace WITHIN the UK. Whether or not that will have any bearing on Salmond
persuading the country to vote for independence is another matter.
If the result is a yes vote then the SNP have consigned themselves to history as their political platform is gone. It will be back to old style left/right politics.
Indeed Alex Salmond's party was founded on the goal of Scottish Independence and now they've found themselves in a position of power they're obliged to go ahead with it. If they lose the vote at least they can claim to have fulfilled their mandate by arranging the referendum.
Jan 16th, 2014 - 09:14 am - Link - Report abuse 0Scottish Independence??!! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH. Scotland is not GETTING ANY INDEPENDENCE.
Jan 16th, 2014 - 02:44 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Commenting for this story is now closed.
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