MercoPress. South Atlantic News Agency
Argentina and Brazil with the largest and fastest growing fiscal pressure in Latam
Argentina’s tax revenue was at last count the largest and fastest growing in the region, the UN Economic Commission for Latin America and the Caribbean (ECLAC) revealed on Monday. At 37.3%, the latest tax revenue-to-GDP data put Argentina ahead of Brazil, with tax revenue worth 36.3% of its GDP in 2012 — and a few percentage points above the average for OECD countries at 34.6%. Read full article
Comments
Disclaimer & comment rulesWhy don't they just make it 100%.
Jan 21st, 2014 - 03:56 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Their economic plans seem to be working so wall
Stupid Marxists will never learn
The above poster proves the ”other side IS NOT HERE FOR HONEST debate.
Jan 21st, 2014 - 06:16 pm - Link - Report abuse 0When Argentina does not collect taxes, its because of the culture of corruption and evasion of taxation.
When it improves tax collection and drops the fraud rate, it's because they are Marxists.
Thus, why no one on the Argentine side bothers to debate with us Europeans or North Ams, we are sadly just not up to the task.
Fraud and corruption is an everyday event in Argentina, when I lived there years ago they were surprised anybody paid their taxes, nay proud they didn't pay the taxes as they knew that the government agentcies would not catch them
Jan 21st, 2014 - 06:23 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Are these figures independently sourced or provided by the host government to the UN body. The article is unclear on that point.
Jan 21st, 2014 - 06:24 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@3
Jan 21st, 2014 - 06:50 pm - Link - Report abuse 0What does that have to do with the statement I made. Sine you artfully eluded my observation, I will use your crass circumlocution as validation.
Toby, Please stop with these ridiculously worded posts.
Jan 21st, 2014 - 06:55 pm - Link - Report abuse 0If the taxes were fair AND the corruption in check people would pay them
I hear CFK is building another hotel on public land
Nah nothing to see here
nothing at all
Filthy scumbags
@6
Jan 21st, 2014 - 06:57 pm - Link - Report abuse 0http://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simple_English_Wikipedia
A tax take of 37% of GDP is extremely high and should provide a massive amount of money for a government to provide infrastructure and income support.
Jan 21st, 2014 - 07:02 pm - Link - Report abuse 0And yet Argentina is still full of slums and independent analysis shows massive poverty.
Where does the money go?
Over the past 15 years, Australia's has oscillated between 20-24% so that it currently sits at 60% of Argentina's. Having been assured multiple times that the cost of living in Argentina is much lower; then where is this massive amount of money going?
Such a rate puts it in the same category as Germany, UK, Iceland and Luxembourg. And it is nearly double Chile's.
There's obviously a major problem with Argentina's governmental finances. It would be interesting to see where the money actually goes.
A further problem is the obfuscated, obdurate, obnubilated views of contributors who have no interest in objective debate, and who just make up stats as the go to draw conclusions of a country they have never set foot on.
Jan 21st, 2014 - 07:08 pm - Link - Report abuse 0It takes a certain level of gall an chutzpah to analyze a place on has never been to.
I've been there, I will concur it is full of slums, failing infrastructure, rampant crime and utter lunatics in charge.
Jan 21st, 2014 - 07:14 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I LOVE this headline:
Fernandez in Hiding Spurs Worst Bond Selloff: Argentina Credit
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-01-21/fernandez-in-hiding-spurs-worst-bond-selloff-argentina-credit.html
Who made up statistics?
Jan 21st, 2014 - 07:21 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@9 Toby
Jan 21st, 2014 - 08:47 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The only obfuscation is coming from you.
Anglotino makes a relevant, well made point @8.
I agree with Anglotino that in a country with a high tax burden you would expect to see the results in areas that require government spending. I.e. education, health, infrastructure and (in some countries) defense.
In Chile the tax burden is very low and the effects are evident in our poor education system and poor health services (poor by comparison with OECD). However, when compared to Argentina, our schools rank higher in PISA year after year; our universities rank higher and our life expectancy is greater.
Our military can easily defend our borders and outlying islands (1000s of miles out in the Pacific). They even have the time and will to rescue Argie military personnel when they get sick in Antarctica.
In other words, I can see what we get for the low taxes, but it is far from evident what Argentina gets for paying nearly twice as much.
What is your opinion on the matter?
Condorito
Jan 21st, 2014 - 09:48 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I was quite surprised by how low Chile's tax take actually was. I'm quite happy with Australia's level. It is quite common these days for users to apy for many government services. This appeals to me. I much prefer helping lower income earners with income support rather than creating a two tier system where they are not aware of the costs.
Would you support a rise in the government's tax take in Chile? I'm not talking to the levels of Argentina, but a modest rise?
In the 90s we introduced a GST to replace a dysfunctional sales tax system. It is currently set at 10% with some items excluded. I would support this increasing to perhaps 15% with the exclusions phased out. A corresponding drop in income tax should accompany this (as a federation this opens up a host of other issues that I won't go into).
Australia's tax system is not right. It needs further reform. However I would never support a rise in the tax take to the levels experienced by Argentina and Brazil.
(Hopefully our posts are “honest debate” so as not to upset Narine)!
@Anglotino
Jan 21st, 2014 - 10:47 pm - Link - Report abuse 0My problem with increasing taxes is that it tends to be a one way street. The raises justified by improved services today are the benchmark for tomorrow. Narine the “citizen of the EU” is probably acutely aware of where this can end, while Toby is probably blissfully ignorant of what some countries get for their 37% tax burden.
Chile's economy is highly cyclical and although we have $22 billion in a counter cycle buffer fund, I would prefer the government's public spending commitment to remain low.
A growing economy increases tax revenue better than raising taxes so we should always be pushing the government to provide the conditions for growth and productivity improvement and not let them take the easy option of taxing us more to make it easy for them (in the short term) to deliver their promises.
If you translate tax burden in to your time, I think it is reasonable for a state to take 15% - 30% of my production for the common good. Any more than that is unreasonable and probably delivers diminishing returns.
Condorito
Jan 22nd, 2014 - 01:08 am - Link - Report abuse 0I agree. I am not one for needlessly increasing taxes and I believe that a government should always be frugal with the money that I give them. Chile with a low sovereign debt is in a strong position. I believe debt should be used to build capacity and infrastructure but not to be used for every day expenses.
I am just wondering if you think Chile could perhaps slightly increase its tax take to build needed infrastructure more quickly or to provide services that are needed or even improve services such as education - which will reap higher productivity and growth and hence increase income and taxes.
I don't like prolific governments, however I also don't think you should starve a government of its ability to do what it does best; which is provide basic services and infrastructure.
I know Chile is taking the next step towards developed country status, but that does not mean it has to emulate the unsustainable bloated governments that exist in Europe, but also I don't think it should emulate the US model that lacks so much either. But thankfully it isn't emulating the Argentine model.
I've said it before and you agree for the most part, that Chile has many similarities to Australia and could do worse that following some of our system.... at least that which works.
@8 “Where does the money go?”
Jan 22nd, 2014 - 01:18 am - Link - Report abuse 0Some ends up in havens like Seychelles and some is spent for those empty hotels you see in Calafate.
The rest goes to government employees (many of them mafia paid to support the government), propaganda, subsidies, football and fuel to keep the economy running.
@12
Jan 22nd, 2014 - 03:26 am - Link - Report abuse 0I realize you asked the opinion of a poster named Toby, which I have never seen here since my arrival, but my opinion is that you poorly use every opportunity to turn every argument into a “Chile vs Argentina” jingoistic comparison, which I find not only quite out of place, but also a symptom of an underlying insecurity, in always trying to find ways to somehow “lift” Chile's status vis-à-vis Argentina. I also find some of your claims unverifiable in terms of education and “rescuing”.
I look forward to the response from this supposed “toby”, as he is called upon by basically the entirety of this forum on a daily basis.
@Narine
Jan 22nd, 2014 - 01:14 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Toby was one of the regular posters here who, like yourself was very wordy and defensive of Argentina (although you have chosen a different angle from which to defend Argentina).
Despite his fine vocabulary he was very unworldly and sometimes shockingly poorly informed. He even once stated that is was a fact that tomatoes could not be grown in winter - clearly a product of the Argentine education that is now one of the lowest ranked in South America.
Regarding Chile: this article is about the varying tax rates in 13 LatAm countries, Chile included. The report was published in Chile and a fellow poster drew the comparison between Chile and Argentina. So if you think my mentioning Chile is out of place here your cognitive perceptual skills are about as poor as Toby's.
You say:
“ I also find some of your claims unverifiable in terms of education and “rescuing”. ”
There are numerous sources I can point you to. I will start with PISA:
http://www.oecd.org/pisa/keyfindings/pisa-2012-results-overview.pdf
You will find Argentina down at the bottom of the table below Chile, Uruguay, Brazil and Costa Rica.
The recent rescue I refer to:
http://www.oecd.org/pisa/keyfindings/pisa-2012-results-overview.pdf
I'll summarize it for you: An Argie commander falls critically ill on an Argentina “base”. The Argies have no medical team and no aircraft to perform a rescue!?
What do you think about the tax burden in Argentina?
Or are you going to display another of Toby's traits and choose to ignore the topic of the thread?
@Anglotino
I don't think we are ready to follow the Australian route yet. Although there are many similarities, Australia is much, much wealthier than Chile and as the commodity cycle cools down, you have more to fall back on. We have more than we had before, but we must be very cautious with increases to public spending. Bachelet term is going to be interesting I look forward to seeing the spending plans and how the money will be raised.
I wish the USA would take after Chile!
Jan 22nd, 2014 - 02:39 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Did you see Arg restricted Int'l internet purchases to 2/year.
They are in dire straits
@19
Jan 22nd, 2014 - 04:09 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I am amazed this has happened - limiting internet purchases to 2 per year, subject to a 50% surcharge thereafter!
For me, the glimmer of hope for Argentina has always been the belief that the majority place a high value on liberty, but it seems they have been cowed by the gradual restriction of economic freedom.
How much further will the government go to protect USD reserves.
20. Outright confiscation of private property. Oh wait...
Jan 22nd, 2014 - 05:29 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Commenting for this story is now closed.
If you have a Facebook account, become a fan and comment on our Facebook Page!