MercoPress. South Atlantic News Agency
Argentina in France trying to work out a debt deal with the Paris Club
Desperately credit-short Argentina outlined on Monday its conditions for repaying some 9.5 billion dollars in debt to the Paris Club, a senior official at the group of creditor nations said, as the government of President Cristina Fernandez seeks to revive long-stalled talks. Argentina's international reserves have fallen to its lowest level since 2006. Read full article
Comments
Disclaimer & comment rulestime to sell the family silver.
Jan 21st, 2014 - 04:19 pm - Link - Report abuse 0However, the Argentine population must realise that the easiest way to solve the countries financial troubles is to remove the governing family and investigate their personal wealth, including accounts in all those places “she” likes to holiday in or visit in between state visits, as her personal wealth has grown so dramatically whilst the country suffers
I love the part where Argentina supposedly outline 'their' conditions for repayment.
Jan 21st, 2014 - 04:25 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Of course the Paris Club could just as easily say 'non' to their conditions. They want paying in FULL. Not part payment, and I'll bet they want all the interest that Argentina owes them too.
The Argentine government does appear to have 'finally' got it through it's own thick skull that paying off it's debts is the only way they'll receive international assistance.
However, it appears that after all the posturing and talk about Argentine 'sovereignty' they're going to have to pay...and if they'd've paid earlier they wouldn't be in the financial hole that they're in now.
So is this a case of too little, too late?
Are the Argentine Government assuming that by promising that they'll pay (honest!) that the international community will just believe them and open up international funds for them?
They might try the Guy Wildenstein family in Paris.
Jan 21st, 2014 - 04:47 pm - Link - Report abuse 0They are billionaires, and deal in stolen art treasures, some even from family friends.
molly.nunes@wilmerhale.com
There is much in common, and even a private jet for moving art into hiding abroad.
As they say.... “Que Quilombo” ....
Jan 21st, 2014 - 05:04 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Argentina: Here, have some bonds in pesos
Jan 21st, 2014 - 05:41 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Paris Club: No, fcuk off
“They are billionaires, and deal in stolen art treasures, some even from family friends.
Jan 21st, 2014 - 05:42 pm - Link - Report abuse 0There is much in common...”
there is much in common with british museums then.
http://archaeologynewsnetwork.blogspot.com.ar/2010/06/uk-refuses-to-return-looted-treasures.html#.Ut6zKtItrAU
At some point you'd think these K morons would get a clue.
Jan 21st, 2014 - 05:53 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Plus this is a perfect opportunity for the UK to nix any deal since it must be unanimous.
Pay back is a b*tch
@6
Jan 21st, 2014 - 06:04 pm - Link - Report abuse 0What a poor effort at deflection, you will have to try better than that.
And in the meantime the fastest growing of any developed economy for 2014 is - guess who?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-25823217
“”“”““They are billionaires, and deal in stolen art treasures, some even from family friends.
Jan 21st, 2014 - 06:27 pm - Link - Report abuse 0There is much in common...””“””
Is your Argentina planning to return Patagonia to the natives any time soon?
If not, then fc-uk off.
:-0
8
Jan 21st, 2014 - 07:00 pm - Link - Report abuse 0you should read this “brit”worker.
13 million people live below the poverty line in the UK.
http://www.trusselltrust.org/foodbank-projects
9
the natives are totally integrated here. they are as argentinain as anybody else. there are no claims of the patagonians to be an independent country.
and please do not start with that sh*t of the mapuche thing (they are original from chile by the way)
on the other hand, you are the ones who have to return the whole 14 colonies you still have around the globe.
and, again, do not forget the art stolen by the british museums.
@10
Jan 21st, 2014 - 07:11 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I agree with you, incomes have not kept up with growth, that is next part of the recovery plan. Watch and learn. Also there has been a huge amount of fat to trim away in the benefits system. Generations if families surviving on benefits for years, it will take probably a generation for those people to understand that they have to work to live, the old days have gone but nothing changes overnight.
Fernandez in Hiding Spurs Worst Bond Selloff: Argentina Credit
Jan 21st, 2014 - 07:11 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Argentine bonds are posting the worst rout in emerging markets on concern the government is absent as foreign reserves sink, inflation soars and the peso depreciates.
The nation’s debt has lost 7.5 percent since Dec. 19, the last day that President Cristina Fernandez de Kirchner appeared in public after she had an operation to remove a blood clot near her brain in October. Developing-nation bonds have gained an average of 0.9 percent in the same period.
During Fernandez’s absence, Argentina’s foreign reserves have tumbled to a seven-year low, the black market peso has lost 17 percent against the dollar and inflation has quickened to 28 percent, the fastest in at least two years. Her disappearance from public view is fueling speculation that the government has no plan to confront a looming balance-of-payments crisis, according to Guillermo Calvo, an economist at Columbia University in New York
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-01-21/fernandez-in-hiding-spurs-worst-bond-selloff-argentina-credit.html
Britworker
Jan 21st, 2014 - 07:20 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Australia at 2.8%?
Anyway, why does Argentina need access to the international debt market? I keep getting assured by Argentineans and Uruguayans on here that debt is bad and unneeded by Argentina.
France and corruption go together,
Jan 21st, 2014 - 07:59 pm - Link - Report abuse 0perhaps the French will nominate Argentina to join the EU when we go,
receiving a bailout, that goes straight to France,
anything is possible nowadays..
@1 unfortunately politicians in Argentina are untouchable and most of the stolen money is safely stored in havens like Seychelles and Cayman Islands that no judge on Earth can touch.
Jan 21st, 2014 - 08:04 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I don't see what they can actually offer the Paris Club other than full payment and presumably that would rapidly deplete the central bank reserves.
Jan 21st, 2014 - 08:10 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Even if they agree a payment plan that is accepted, getting credit is still going to be very expensive. Argentina's credit rating is junk bond rates.
What has happened to the RG trolls who used to say “Argentina needs no one”, “we don't need the IMF”, bla bla bla?
I wonder what they make of their ministers pleading to pay back debt in order to borrow more.
@7 yankeeboy
“this is a perfect opportunity for the UK to nix any deal since it must be unanimous.”
Historically the Brits have been very magnanimous with the Argies so I doubt they would be vindictive on this occasion. After Argentina surrendered in 1982 many nations would have extracted some sort of revenge on a defeated aggressor nation. Sinking the Argie fleet in port would have been proportionate and “just” in the context of war.
Released documents have shown that one of the British considerations, besides Reagan's request not to humiliate Argentina, was that a further British prosecution would leave Argentina vulnerable to a Chilean attack.
Magnanimous to their detriment, possibly.
perhaps because we are gentlemen,
Jan 21st, 2014 - 08:12 pm - Link - Report abuse 0and the IMF say we are growing well this year..
15
Jan 21st, 2014 - 08:23 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“unfortunately politicians in Argentina are untouchable”
sadly, i have to agree 100%
anyway, there is a strong social condemnation.
i am not in favour of the “escraches”, but lately, like in the 90's, some judges (oyarbide, gils carbó), officials (kicillof, echegaray, vice president boudou), etc., have suffered it in their faces.
http://www.lapoliticaonline.com/nota/67291/
http://www.lapoliticaonline.com/nota/67291/
http://www.lapoliticaonline.com/nota/67291/
More and more debt; less and less Independence.
Jan 21st, 2014 - 09:19 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Ola Anbar -
Jan 21st, 2014 - 09:27 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“ Is your Argentina planning to return Patagonia to the natives any time soon?”
Man 1:- Does your dog bite ?
Man 2- No, he doesn't.
Man 1- ( Pets dog and get bitten )
Man 1 - Hey, I thought you said your dog doesn't bite !
Man 2 - That's not my dog.
And, that's not my Argentina, and I seriously doubt our neighbours to the South will give up Patagonia.
As proved by statements and events in 1982, the only seek more territory from Chile and the UK. Steal and take what they can and never pay back anything.
“Paris Club: No, fcuk off” LOL! @ 5
Jan 21st, 2014 - 09:41 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I cannot imagine the Paris Club will accept the kind of deal that would encourage other creditors not to pay in full. I am sure they will be wondering why Argentina sent someone from the 50's to negotiate.
I hear from my friends in BsAs that the game is 'Where, where, where, where, where? Where's Crissie?”
I thought an agreement had already been made with the Paris Club. Didn't Think say as much recently?
Jan 21st, 2014 - 09:50 pm - Link - Report abuse 0And where is Cristina? Everyone is asking that question.
@21
Jan 21st, 2014 - 09:54 pm - Link - Report abuse 0More than a month since her last public appearance.
I think the simple reason is that since CFK has been so publicly intransigent on debt negotiations, that now when they have no alternative but to plead to come in from the cold, it would be too much for her to be seen leading the pleading.
Hence minions are dispatched and who better than Kicillof the hypnotist.
We have been here before. - October 2007
Jan 21st, 2014 - 10:06 pm - Link - Report abuse 0”Argentina needs to buy credibility with investors and companies that are looking to do business in the country,'' said Ricardo Amorim, chief Latin America economist at WestLB AG in New York. ``Paying off the Paris Club would be a sign that Argentina is more willing to work with market participants.''
Cristina is building a new hotel in El Calafate on former public land
http://www.clarin.com/politica/Cristina-construye-Calafate-terrenos-fiscales_0_1070292977.html
i thought the kirchneristas were the most imbeciles at the moment to opine about argentina´s economy.
Jan 21st, 2014 - 10:10 pm - Link - Report abuse 0now, after reading these comments, i realize i was totally wrong.
not a surprise though.
they are “experts” from chile (lol) and malvinas falklands (lol).
they don´t even know where is their ass, hence, what the fuck can these pricks know about argentinian economy?
yes, nothing.
@10 “13 million people live below the poverty line in the UK”. Largely because argieland doesn't pay its debts.
Jan 21st, 2014 - 10:45 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@25 Wouldn't it be easiest to pay the 9.5 billion dollars (plus interest)? Then there would only be about 900 billion dollars left to pay. Know where YOUR ass is? Or is it “in use” by a “friend”?
@25 They know a lot more than you do.
Jan 21st, 2014 - 10:47 pm - Link - Report abuse 027.
Jan 21st, 2014 - 11:02 pm - Link - Report abuse 0these guys clearly know nothing.
you included elaine
The Argentine economy is in the shitter.
Jan 21st, 2014 - 11:32 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Is that accurate or am I just a “know nothing”.
@27 Elaine
Jan 21st, 2014 - 11:34 pm - Link - Report abuse 0It hurts him deeply when a Chilean opines on the disaster the K's have made of his country. It is salt in the wound for the fragile ego of an Argie in denial.
Stand by for some racial insults and youtube links.
Perhaps Paul can tell us where his president is.
Jan 22nd, 2014 - 12:08 am - Link - Report abuse 0And whether Argentina should pay all it's debts in full or continue on its current path?
anglo tino (why tino?)
Jan 22nd, 2014 - 01:05 am - Link - Report abuse 01. dont have a clue.
2. should pay all its debts
Argentina's economy is nowhere where people here claim it is. Are things “good”? It depends on what region, in the west and south things are rather well, in the pampa not so because they bare the brunt of anti-export measures.
Jan 22nd, 2014 - 05:43 am - Link - Report abuse 032
Jan 22nd, 2014 - 11:37 am - Link - Report abuse 0insults get you nowhere,
the islands are not yours , never was , never will be,
so don't for us,
its your leaders, your country , your downfall.
@33 Look Sussie, I know you're not there so you can't really tell. But there is no way that 28.5% inflation is good. Decent countries don't have black markets for currency. Even mildly indecent ones don't have to pay out nearly twice the “official” rate. Especially when it's nearly impossible to get your currency of choice out of the country. Argieland's growth rate is falling. I'm a little surprised that Indec is admitting it. It's dropped 2.8% in one quarter. This is a good thing because the reported growth of 8.3% was unsustainable. There would have been too many pesos chasing too few goods. But I doubt whether the figures are accurate. On Indec's normal practice, I reckon growth peaked around 4% and has now dropped to around 2%. Chances are that Indec is frantically trying to get their figures into some sort of data range that the IMF will find acceptable. Not got long now before various members start pressing for argieland to be expelled from the IMF. Along with expulsion from the IMF goes expulsion from the G20. Mind you, argieland is only in the G20 because it thought it might be useful to get the views of a “poor” country. It'll be out soon enough as other countries realise that CFK is just using the G20 for her own nefarious agenda, rather than concentrating on the economic well-being of the world. Why would she be interested in the economic well-being of the world? Primarily, she's interested in her own economic well-being. You can see that by noting how much her personal wealth has increased. In 10 years its risen from US$1.4 million to more than US$16 million. And that's only what she's declared! All those holdalls full of cash being flown out of the country on Tango 01. Next comes the economic well-being of her cronies, including her son. Then the crumbs go to the country. No wonder there's nothing left to pay off debts. And still all that energy to pay for!
Jan 22nd, 2014 - 12:31 pm - Link - Report abuse 033. What give you the authority to report on various provinces economy? How would you know from France?
Jan 22nd, 2014 - 01:49 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Toby you are a ridiculous fool.
Anyway the Provinces don't 'buy their own fuel. The problem is the balance of payment crunch that is coming soon. If the crops are as bad as I think it will happen 2nd quarter. Mendoza can't survive without fuel can it?
No it can't
Saying the some provinces are doing well but the Federal Gov't is running out of U$ is about as stupid of a statement as I can think of.
Stupid boy.
Comment removed by the editor.
Jan 22nd, 2014 - 02:39 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Apparently the Argentina tax bureau has realised that US$ are leaving the country by Argies buying goods and services via the internet, so they have introduced a system that all purchases have to be applied for on the relevant form, not more than 20US$ per purchase and no more than 2 purchases a year.
Jan 22nd, 2014 - 02:42 pm - Link - Report abuse 0They must be really getting desperate now.
If they want the economy to stop crashing, they should simply stop stealing. Of course, their lack of morality won't allow for that.
Jan 22nd, 2014 - 03:07 pm - Link - Report abuse 0A few possibilities come to mind for what will happen:
1. They will drain the reserves, leaving nothing left for their voter base causing violent protest, and a spike in theft.
2. They will move from restrictions to confiscating and Nationalizing more public services.
3. They will dispatch the goon squad to threaten and intimidate the opposition to a significantly higher degree than usual.
4. Violent protest from the opposition.
4 is the least likely. One of my concerns is how docile many people are. They keep their head down in hopes that the administration will fall before their assets are entirely confiscated, and that they will have something left if they don't resist and upset the wrong people.
1 will take a while, but it's just a matter of when. 2 seems like it will happen as the reserves are at a dangerously low level, and international commerce has been nearly entirely obstructed. 3 seems to be the wild card here. The street presence of the K's isn't as intense as it was, so much as it has with finances. However, desperation brings out the worst in people.
Agree? Disagree? Thoughts?
37. You didn't answer my question, TOBY.
Jan 22nd, 2014 - 03:09 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Just unsuccessfully tried to deflect.
Who ever said I can't read Spanish?
What is in your personality disorder that allow this type of childness?
You need to be studied.
@38
Jan 22nd, 2014 - 03:29 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Correction: 20US$ should read 25US$
@37 Tobes, it's time to give up on false identity #352 - it's ready for the scrapheap. We'll expect to see you commenting as a transgendered Romanian circus performer by next week.
Jan 22nd, 2014 - 03:46 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@41
Jan 22nd, 2014 - 03:49 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Is inflation that high?
26. what debt has argentina with the.... uk, you imbecile?
Jan 22nd, 2014 - 03:54 pm - Link - Report abuse 0the uk is one of the most indebted nations.
argentina is in deep shit due to this govt, and 99.99 % of the argentines know it.
the uk is in a even worse situation, and you imbecile brainwashed brits, think you are a powerhouse
@43
Jan 22nd, 2014 - 03:54 pm - Link - Report abuse 0No, my mistake.
39. As the Gov't finances collapse they must print pesos to pay for the huge raises demanded this year which increases inflation which will bring hyperinflation and much more crime.
Jan 22nd, 2014 - 03:57 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Eventually the crime and inflation will bring the “docile” Rgs into the streets.
You've seen it before
Nothing has changed
Except this time the USA doesn't care if Arg collapses because it won't have a contagion effect and threaten stability.
There's no one left to bail you out.
Brazil could help but I doubt they have the will or capacity to do it.
@44 paul
Jan 22nd, 2014 - 04:17 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“argentina is in deep shit due to this govt, and 99.99 % of the argentines know it.”
So have they only realized this since the last election or was the last election rigged?
Latest moronic behaviour....
Jan 22nd, 2014 - 04:45 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Argentines will be limited to two Internet purchases abroad for delivery at home per year using credit cards, according to a resolution by the tax agency published in the official gazette. The tax agency, known as AFIP, increased paperwork on online shopping yesterday.
12.07/1
Jan 22nd, 2014 - 05:19 pm - Link - Report abuse 0We ALL know how these “negotiations” will go.
Jan 22nd, 2014 - 09:12 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Kickitoff will attempt to brow-beat the Paris Club into accepting worthless argie promises backed by worthless argie paper, at which point the well bred members of the club will ask the security at the meeting to “please eject these people from the premises”.
Kickitoff will then return in triumph to a grateful crowd of 10 or 12 La Campora diehards and proceed to INSTRUCT the press they are to claim a victory by him personally.
It was always thus and while the Peronista filth are infesting the country it will ALWAYS be thus.
@44
Jan 22nd, 2014 - 10:14 pm - Link - Report abuse 0We don't think the UK is a powerhouse, we know it.
51.
Jan 22nd, 2014 - 10:28 pm - Link - Report abuse 0that's why you are a deluded poor thing
@52
Jan 22nd, 2014 - 11:43 pm - Link - Report abuse 0But time is on our side.
@52 paulie
Jan 22nd, 2014 - 11:47 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The UK is not a prominent global player?
Sometimes, rarely, we find that it is the ones calling others “mistaken” that are the ones that are in reality mistaken.
Are you sure you are not the one who is wrong?
@48 tik tok.
Jan 23rd, 2014 - 12:05 am - Link - Report abuse 0Good point. When most of the modern world is shifting bureaucracy online, only the argies would create more paperwork to deal with online purchasing/tax(!). I expect all those forms will then have to be then converted to electronic data by some poor, underpaid, miserable clerks somewhere. No wonder depression-levels are so high, with 202 psychologists per 100,000 estimated for Argentina in a 2012 study. The highest in the world.
http://edition.cnn.com/2013/04/28/health/argentina-psychology-therapists/
Poor sods!
what has the number of psychologists got to do with the level of depression?
Jan 23rd, 2014 - 12:19 am - Link - Report abuse 0lol.
the number of drunk, addicts, suicides, etc is related with that.
and talking about drunks, nobody beats the brits in that matter.
Wrong again Paul, the country with the largest amount of alcohol consumed per capita is actually the Czech Republic.
Jan 23rd, 2014 - 07:42 am - Link - Report abuse 0It must be terrible to be wrong constantly, how do you cope? drugs maybe?
it must be a lot more terrible to live in the islets being a complete brainwashed pleb, no?
Jan 23rd, 2014 - 12:07 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Better than in a LATAM country I can assure you.
Jan 23rd, 2014 - 12:32 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@57 and 59
Jan 23rd, 2014 - 01:42 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Give the poor guy a break, he is very simple.
[He thinks there are no waves on the Pacific and that a person from Chile is a “chilote” (which is actually someone from Chiloe).]
You should be kind with the less fortunate and try to teach him things.
so funny we are receiving “lessons” from chilotes and isleños. lol
Jan 23rd, 2014 - 01:54 pm - Link - Report abuse 0all that chile can produce is handicraft, that is their biggest industrial achievement.
as for the islets, well... not even that.
Just pay 9billion and walk away.
Jan 23rd, 2014 - 02:12 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@ 62 a cold prune
Jan 23rd, 2014 - 03:32 pm - Link - Report abuse 0And, despite your rants the Falklanders are still there, with an order of magnitude more income per head and happy as Larry while you are?
NOT!
Ha, ha, ha.
@61
Jan 23rd, 2014 - 06:10 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You are correct that we do produce very fine handicraft, but it is not our “biggest industrial achievement”.
I hadn't previously realized quite how uninformed you were so I will speak slowly with small words where possible.
I won't go in to detail on our economy as I realize your ability to absorb information is limited. But I will point out some key indicators to help you.
Chile Central bank reserves: USD 40 Billion
So on a per capita basis we have 3x what you have in the bank. That's not bad for a handicraft based economy.
Luckily we don't need to waste reserves on propping up the peso or pleading with the Paris Club. If we need to issue debt we can do so at rates similar to northern European nations (very low interest). When Argentina next issues debt they will have to pay interest rates higher than most African nations (very, very high).
That might seem unfair that a country,like Argentina, that is begging for USD has to pay the highest rates, but it is just a reflection of how the world views your economy.
The world values our “handicrafts” more than your “auto industry” (read: low spec French cars with poor build quality). There are very good reasons for that, but I won't explain as risk of overloading you.
So, to recap on what you have learned:
1) the Pacific has waves
2) A person from Chiloe is a “Chilote”
3) Competitive Chilean “handicraft” industries earn more than protected RG industries.
Don't hesitate to ask if there is something you don't understand - your lack of education is nothing to be ashamed of.
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