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Brazil can't be hostage of Argentina or Venezuela in Mercosur/EU trade negotiations

Wednesday, January 29th 2014 - 22:38 UTC
Full article 48 comments

The Brazilian government is determined to advance with negotiations for a trade agreement between Mercosur and the European Union even if it means leaving Argentina for a second phase of the process, according to sources from Itamaraty, the country's foreign ministry, reported in the Rio do Janeiro media. Read full article

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  • LEPRecon

    Yup, don't let Argentina bring the rest of you down.

    Make the agreement, and when the next (and hopefully more sensible) government is in place in Argentina, then they can sign up for 'phase 2'.

    It looks like Mercosur is about to become a 2-tier organisation. One tier with successful economic policies and another tier with the basket case voodoo economic policies.

    Jan 29th, 2014 - 11:03 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ilsen

    Shame that Brazil can't negotiate sole with EU as a new trade agreement could be beneficial for both. MercoSur is being dragged down by the “hard currency problems faced by Argentina and Venezuela [that] “will contaminate the rest of Mercosur members”. ”

    Jan 29th, 2014 - 11:03 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • yankeeboy

    Brazil will make its own agreement with the EU in violation of its MercoSur agreement and all the other members will ignore it because without Brazil there is no Mercosur.
    Silly Marxists don't understand trade....

    Jan 29th, 2014 - 11:04 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ilsen

    @3 Agreed,
    Do Marxists believe in 'trade' or just the so-called 'reditribution of wealth' ... that we have all seen elsewhere lead to corruption and dirty wealth for the Secretariat and tragic poverty for the 'proles'?

    Jan 29th, 2014 - 11:07 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Tik Tok

    If and it's a big “if” Brazil does do a deal this will have huge implications for all South America, because Brazil will have to get competitive, less protection through many industries, there will be pain, and it should open up to more trade agreements elsewhere, a more market approach and the idealists will find their economic models even more wanting. Globalisation is a reality. Close yourself in and you eventually get to various stages of madness such as Venezuela and Argentina.

    Jan 30th, 2014 - 12:36 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ilsen

    @5 Tik Tok
    I concur. Dilma has her head in the sand on this one. She likes playing on the world stage and being a 'darling of the left' but will not accept the reality of what a 'player' on the world stage truly means. Competition!
    Until Brazil is in a position to truly compete it will continue to be held back in the quicksand of corruption and provenly ridiculous ideological clay, dragging it's heels to the ultimate detriment of its populace.

    Jan 30th, 2014 - 01:19 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Narine T. Nüster

    Argentina has shown little interest in dealings with Europe because lamentably us as Europeans do not have a fine track record of being “friendly” and trustworthy towards Argentines. We have done our fair share over the many years to wreck their prosperity and development, self-inflicted wounds notwithstanding.

    Jan 30th, 2014 - 01:47 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • CabezaDura2

    Well would you believe that… Brazil the same country that has being politically promoting the governments of Venezuela and others alike i.e Argentina, Ecuador and Bolivia for years now, is finding itself in an awkward position, they thought these regimes would fall behind their leadership whilst they ousted the American influence from the region believing they will consolidate their power in South America… Its backfired, the Pacific countries are walking away no matter how many clubs they create to retain them in (UNASUR, CELAC) and now Mercosur is holding them back and the economy is not delivering what it should. I'm not forgeting what Lula said in September 2011 he felt like coming to Bs As and voting for CFK… He also said that if he was a Venezuelan he would vote for Chavez instead of Capriles…Dilma doesn’t want to say in public what she says behind doors to CFK, kisses and hugs in Havanna for the lefties to believe in la “Patria Grande Latinoamericana” … You made it you drink it Brazil’s workers party, its your fault too, its only fair you take a fair share of whats comming too.

    PS Steavie take note for your wet dream of the USSR of Latam

    Jan 30th, 2014 - 01:56 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Narine T. Nüster

    And the solution is latching on the the sinking ship that is the EU and USA, right? They are the past, not the future. It is just reality.

    Jan 30th, 2014 - 02:01 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • CabezaDura2

    South East Asia and Pacific is for certain, US and Europe (not EU) is to be seeing... IMO

    Jan 30th, 2014 - 02:17 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • bushpilot

    Are you really from France?

    Are you really female?

    What country are you really from?

    If the EU is sinking, where would you like to live next, that has a superior model to that of the EU or the US?

    Where is there a superior way of life and why don't you live there if the EU is sinking?

    Jan 30th, 2014 - 02:17 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Narine T. Nüster

    We are slowly sinking ships, into the sunset together.

    We are not the future, there is no shame in that. Power and wealth comes and goes, it has never in the history of recorded history stayed with the same country, the same people, and the same powers.

    Why is it so hard for us Europeans and Americans to accept our best days are behind us? The evidence both in actual statistical facts and in what we see around us every day from the aging population to the ghettos, from the crumbling infrastructure to our high debt and diminishing services, and our stultified governments, is clear.

    Jan 30th, 2014 - 02:21 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ilsen

    @ 8 CD2 Ah, the voice of reason returns. Someone who has something to contribute. (take note Trollitos!)
    I agree with most of what you say in this post. The 'dream' and the reality, the cold, hard reality, are starting to unravel, I do hope Brazil can find a way through the entanglements of the various 'clubs' it has joined to a brighter future.
    Toby Nasal Fluff @7 & @9
    I have exposed you before as a fraud and a fake. As is obvious by your silly 'EUian' (your word) voice in #7 and your normal voice in #9
    Your comments are worthless.
    You only fool yourself. Oxygen thief and imbecile.

    Jan 30th, 2014 - 02:23 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • CabezaDura2

    12) Europe and Western civilization has being the world center of economics, science, innovation, progress and power of the world ever since Alexander's conquests... Many Asian empires and civilizations challenged European supremacy since then Huns, Moors, Saracens, Mongols, Ottoman Turks, etc. Why should it be different this time???

    Jan 30th, 2014 - 02:29 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Narine T. Nüster

    EUian is a recognized nationality and it is MY nationality.

    A product of EUiana and EUian to the core, we need to ditch some of the less desirable EUisms, like conquest and racism, so that we are trusted again by the likes of the Argentines.

    Jan 30th, 2014 - 02:31 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • bushpilot

    @12 whoever you are

    You avoid my questions.

    Are you really a female from France? Say so if you are.

    I didn't ask if the EU and the US are sinking. I asked you which countries are taking their place at the top of the global hierarchy. Which ones?

    Answer the question or just stop distracting everybody with you diarrhea of the mouth.

    Jan 30th, 2014 - 02:33 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • yankeeboy

    Narine must live in Argentina if she knows people aren't panicking and lined up at the Embassies.
    Hahaha
    Toby you are ridiculous
    you need to be studied

    Jan 30th, 2014 - 02:37 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Anglotino

    Actually there is no EU nationality!

    Someone living in the EU would know that! You can only get an EU passport through being a national of an EU member.

    Of should we call Argentineans Mercosurians?

    Jan 30th, 2014 - 02:37 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Narine T. Nüster

    Comment removed by the editor.

    Jan 30th, 2014 - 02:38 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • yankeeboy

    19. Oh that proves it,
    yes, yes it does

    You need to be studied.

    Jan 30th, 2014 - 02:43 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • bushpilot

    @19 whoever you are

    “Donc... Asia has already supplanted us.”

    Asia is a continent, not a country.

    For the third time. “Which” country or countries are now the top global players on this planet?

    Jan 30th, 2014 - 02:58 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Narine T. Nüster

    There is none that dominates. To have a dominating country, you have to meet the touchstones of “superpowerdom”:

    1. Have complete economic hegemony (there is no country today that has this, there is just too much interdependence)
    2. Have complete military hegemony (USA does fit here, but it no longer has the economic apparatus behind it to support it beyond 25-40 years)
    3. Have complete cultural hegemony (USA culture is not even 20% as popular a it was in the 50s)
    4. Have complete independence from other nations or states to finance itself (certainly here, there is not ONE nation on Earth today that can self-finance itself, USA is owned by China, Japan, and others. Thus not independent financially).

    We are in a multipolar world now. No one country completely dominates and there is no superpower.

    Jan 30th, 2014 - 03:06 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • yankeeboy

    22. Only everyone in the world would disagree with every one of your points.

    You should be studied, Toby, you should be studied.

    Jan 30th, 2014 - 03:12 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • CabezaDura2

    22) A bit off topic but you should watch this, why China cant do Gangnam style ...It tells a lot about China and its creativity and culture...... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tTft_iISglI

    Jan 30th, 2014 - 03:14 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ilsen

    @22 & @ 19 ad infinitum...
    The EU is not a Country, “Someone living in the EU would know that! You can only get an EU passport through being a national of an EU member.” (ref: Anglotino). Idiot!
    I have exposed you before as a fraud and a fake. As is obvious by your silly false, 'EUian' (your word) voice in some posts, and your angry ‘anti-Anglo’ voice in others.
    Your comments are worthless. Nobody respects you.
    Imbecile. Please be quiet when the adults are speaking

    Jan 30th, 2014 - 03:32 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Narine T. Nüster

    @24

    Well so then does money matter or not?

    Since you claim it probably does like all others here, yet it can't buy you international following of your culture.

    Yet broke, destitute Argentina has its television shows, particularly those of the younger culture, broadcasted all over the planet, with tens of millions of teenagers in other countries watching argie teen shows

    Wanna see Luisana Lopitato going EINS ZWEI DREI? Or Florencia Bertolli saying “Putain merde”! ?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3bbLQy7Mn1w

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3bbLQy7Mn1w

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3bbLQy7Mn1w

    Even in Israel, and India?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3bbLQy7Mn1w

    Even Greek?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3bbLQy7Mn1w

    Violetta in Russian?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3bbLQy7Mn1w

    Or Brazilian?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3bbLQy7Mn1w

    What does that say about argentine popular culture and its creativity, broke and oh so poor, yet millions upon millions follow argentine youth culture? (and one can see by the many comments in the videos people watch... anyway channels like Disney, Cartoon Network, and Sony would not air shows if they had no success?

    WHY HARD-HEAD? How do you explain that? Argentina has no money, yet they air and adapt our shows for 20 years or so now. Started with the Mexicans and Chileans adapting your shows, now its pretty much all over the world.

    Jan 30th, 2014 - 03:37 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • CabezaDura2

    Because they are two very different things….I didn’t know that Argentine soaps for kids by the loony Cris Morena were that popular outside… Of course money speaks louder but as the guy of the video I posted, pointed himself at the end“culture gets to the soul of the political system”..” it’s the expression of the confidence and awareness of what it represents..”. The Chinese are very disciplined, lineal minded and hard working people, but they don’t have any real creativity of their own. They are a copy paste nation with loads of people and money… I do believe they can supplant the US as the main economy if China keeps growing at this pace (a little slower) but I can’t really forecast with confidence where the world will go and the US doesn’t fix the fundamental problems it has…The countries that I believe are to make a substantial rise in both economical weight and human social standards I think are in Eastern Europe (Poland, Hungary, Baltic States), South Korea (because they will have a plus in recourses and space when they reunify), maybe Indonesia and Turkey, and the Pacific alliance excluding Mexico… The BRICS apart from China are a load of hot air... BTW If France, UK and Poland start drilling what is beneath them Russia is nobody it losses its hold on Eastern Europe and its gas cartel and Europe will be top of the game again no question for me about it

    Jan 30th, 2014 - 04:02 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Narine T. Nüster

    So then money does not buy you ANYTHING.

    So much for the obsession with GDP and Argentina falling to last place in he Americas in GDP per capita. Because money does not buy you anything.

    What you said of China was said of Japan 40 years ago, and of Korea 20 years ago.

    That is THEIR model, copy and paste from others, and then educate the populace to create stuff of their own. That leads to wealth.

    Of course Asia, Europe, and the USA were ALLOWED to copy and paste (illegally), and to destroy their environment with pollution and over-fishing, hunting, and mining.

    South America is NOT allowed to copy and paste, so it cannot industrialize. It is not allowed to ruin its environment, so it can't make money of its resources (really make money, not what we see now). And South Americans fail to educate themselves, like I do as an EUian. That's their fault.

    But the first two are our fault. And then we wonder why South American does not reach FULL prosperity, when the USA, and Europe deliberately sabotage all attempts, every time.

    Jan 30th, 2014 - 04:12 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Tik Tok

    You've got rocks in your head Narine, a lot of countries in South America have managed to cock things up all by themselves. Stop playing the blame game.

    Jan 30th, 2014 - 04:22 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Anglotino

    I knew it wouldn't take Nostrils long to start repeating his past fallacies.

    Damn it was so much fun for a while.

    Jan 30th, 2014 - 04:23 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Narine T. Nüster

    Wrong. No Latin American nation would ever be able to get away with the systematic, large scale replication of American and European patented goods, which is what Japan did in the 60s, Taiwan in the 70s, Korea in the 80s, Thailand in the 90s, China in the 2000s, and probably in this decade Vietmam is doing.

    Furthermore if Brazil or Mexico spewed even 1/10 of the pollution China, Russia, and India are spewing, do to no controls, or 1/10 of what the USA and Europe did spew before 1950... they would be bombed.

    Simply put, South America must develop with both hands tied behind the back. Because of our lamentable EUism of racISM.

    Jan 30th, 2014 - 04:27 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • CabezaDura2

    You are ignoring a fundamental difference between the Japanese, West German and South Korean successes post WWII and that is they were democracies. When you have a permanent big brother state telling you what to think, how to behave in every aspect of your live you become un creative like China… In my opinion the importance of education is very overrated even in this world of today (always speaking in a country point of view). Investor Jim Rogers keeps saying how much more homework his daughters get in Singapore than he got in his high school in Alabama in the 1950s...I bet those poor Asian kids drowned in maths since they are toddlers will forget 90% of it when they reach there 30s. Why does it matter how many engineers you produce in China per year if they don’t have the ability to think for themselves and rely on hacking western universities and companies technology like they are doing??? …. You want a country that is successful, decent and worth living??? For that you simply need good citizens with good values, with no apathy on them to take rubbish from the political class, hard working and honest … Argentina completely lacks this I’m afraid. No Pampas, no Patagonia, no sunny beaches, no good weather, no water reserves, no oil reserves, no tango, no football WC victory, soaps for kids will ever make up nor compensate for a band of thieves, crooks, greedy and lazy c*nts and imbeciles.

    Jan 30th, 2014 - 04:38 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Narine T. Nüster

    And maybe that's why there is no successful, decent, worth living country.

    - Where they are “socially” successful they want to blow their brains out (read the suicide rates of the 10 so-called most worthy of living nations... just by coincidence, they all have some of the highest suicide rates on Earth, and no CLIMATE has nothing to do with it because alongside Scandinavia stand Uruguay and Australia as having huge suicide rates).

    - Where they are monetarily successful they have abhorrent family and social cohesion (look at the USA with the drug use, the mass shootings, the constant violence, the dysfunctional families, the lunatics like Bieber and Lohan)

    - Where they are career successful they want to leave that country yesterday (look at the Japanese, Germans, others... they can't leave their countries fast enough it is so depressing due to the total annihilation of family time and leisure life)

    - Where they are family successful they have monetary problems (see Southern Europe, and other areas).

    So you see, you can pick your poison but you can't find medicine. You won't find a “successful” country out there. They all sacrifice one thing for another.

    Just like we as single individual human beings do. Those that value family sacrifice income, those that value income sacrifice family, those that value career may sacrifice both...

    It's a zero sum game and you know why? Because at the end of the day, no matter where you are on this planet, you only have 24 hours in A day. And that will NEVER change. So people individually, and thus countries as a collective will always have to play the zero-sum game.

    Jan 30th, 2014 - 04:51 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • CabezaDura2

    I will have to admit that your post is worth some good meditation… I tell you that for a country such as Argentina at least it should NOT have to be this way. At the moment Argentina is failing on both extremes you mention… financially broken and a economical failure but I don’t see much family values at all. There is Lohan’s and Bieber’s here too, girls at the age of 12 utter sluts and kids who have no discipline no respect for society... However I see that for other countries (especially SE Asia and Europe) who are very globalized, with little room and highly competitive you may have a point.

    Jan 30th, 2014 - 05:04 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ilsen

    @33 Nostril (full of street-cocaine)

    Toby/ Narine (what ever…) - I have exposed you before as a fraud and a fake. As is obvious by your silly false, 'EUian' (your word) voice in some posts, and your angry ‘anti-Anglo’ voice in others.
    Your comments are worthless. Nobody respects you.
    EU – ian is not a Nationality nor a Country. You may have several screen-names but the intelligent, educated Posters on this forum know you as a Fool.
    Your are not worthy of an informed response.
    Imbecile.
    Please be quiet when the adults are speaking.

    Jan 30th, 2014 - 05:05 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Anglotino

    Suicide rates between countries is not comparable.

    Someone who could critically think and is able to argue would know why.

    Jan 30th, 2014 - 06:29 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • yankeeboy

    Narine sure does have a case of insomnia or maybe she is a french hooker with a cell phone?

    Toby you need to be studied. It doesn't take you long to go off the rails and re-start all the nonsensical postings right where you left off with your last character.
    Frankly I'm embarrassed for you.

    Jan 30th, 2014 - 11:17 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Briton

    Brazil can't be hostage of Argentina or Venezuela in Mercosur

    you will do as your told and lump it,
    you are here to support Argentina without question or argument,

    she is your natural leader,
    or the milestone around your necks,
    do as your told,
    or tell her to vamoose,

    your choice,
    your decision,
    your future..lol

    Jan 30th, 2014 - 11:49 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Conqueror

    @15 The day that argies are trusted by Europe or North America, the world will have reached a low point. Argieland, is disrespectful, indifferent to others, corrupt at every level, immoral, deviant, paranoid and self-indulgent. Its best future lies in being a bomb and missile range. Argies shouldn't be allowed out of their “country”. Those already “out” should be returned to their prison/asylum. Those found to have impersonated nationals of other countries should get hard labour. A new concept in argieland!
    @20 Like any other microbe.
    @26 Not argie money. Because you don't have any! It all belongs to someone else. Members of the Paris Club. Innumerable organisations with court judgements against argieland. Paul Singer.
    @28 No, they are YOUR fault. From where you sit in the cesspit of the world. In the south-east of south america.
    @31 As you say, south america is close to where it should be. Now that it has its hands tied behind its back, it only remains for it to kneel down and stick its neck out so we can lop its head off.
    @33 You forgot to take into account social dysfunction, corruption, mendacity, larceny, deviancy, poverty and psychosis. And right there at the “top” is argieland. Followed by the rest of latam in any order you fancy. Probably the most dysfunctional continent on the planet. Pity it can't accept reality. Who created the most respected organisations, institutions and functionalities? No-one in south america. Always also-rans!

    But hasn't the EU said it will only deal with the complete merco bloc? Seems reasonable. One out, all out. Otherwise you finish up with four separate agreements.

    Jan 30th, 2014 - 12:44 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Leiard

    @33

    How is the jade and obsidian jewellery trade .

    Jan 30th, 2014 - 05:47 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Narine T. Nüster

    Jade and obsidian are nice stones. I would enjoy purchasing some.

    Jan 31st, 2014 - 01:03 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • St.John

    Let's be realistic, based on many years of experience:

    Argentina will **promise to** eliminate import tariffs for 80% of European produce, but they will be dragging their feet for months and years, whine and invent excuses (the classic “somebody else's fault”) until the EU drops the trade agreement.

    Jan 31st, 2014 - 03:45 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Don Alberto

    @ 11 bushpilot

    Yes, she is really from France, yes she is really female.

    Narine (French) means Nostril
    T. is for 'Toby, born in Mendoza, now sponging on social security and food coupons in some 1st world country'
    Nüster (German) means Nostril

    Nostril Toby Nostril aka Toby Big Nostrils the scrounger

    Jan 31st, 2014 - 04:15 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Anglotino

    Hence why I call shim Toblerine.

    Pity shim doesn't seem to stand up for anyone else other than Argentine. No support for Brazil. Or even places like Australia.

    Just one country: Argentina.

    I'm having flashbacks to True Blue. Anyone remember that one?

    Jan 31st, 2014 - 08:21 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • yankeeboy

    41. In France Jade and Obsidian can be found in any the cheap tourist shops. You should be able to buy whatever you want with a few Euros.
    Its not like they're really sought after or valuable.

    Jan 31st, 2014 - 01:26 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ilsen

    However, “Brazil can't be hostage of Argentina or Venezuela”, said the former Brazilian ambassador in the United States.
    Brazil + Argentina. This is your 'Papi';
    31 Jan 2015 - Official Bolivarian ‘Wonderland’ Exchange Rate in Venezuela ---
    BCV 6.3Bsf / 1USD
    SICAD 11.3Bsf /1 USD (Ancillary Foreign Currency Administration System)
    ----Today’s Reality Cheque --- The ‘Lechuga Verde’ or ‘Blue Dollar’
    80.00 Bsf / 1USD
    Bsf 10.80 / 1 Euro
    See http://dolartoday.com/
    UK Sterling? As they say, if you have to ask, you can’t afford it!
    80 f**king BOLOS to the Dollar? Argentina on the same water-slide?
    party on dude.... Enjoy the ride….
    Brought to you by Ilsen Publications ©

    Feb 01st, 2014 - 03:38 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Jack Bauer

    What Brazil SHOULD do, and what Dilma might do, are, unfortunately two different things. Although I'm no fan of Dilma's, I dislike her less than I hated Lula, a semi-illiterate, ignorant SOB. Lula always hobnobbed with wannabe 3rd world dictators , Chavez, Castros, Caldera, Morales, Nestor and now CFK, because he couldn't stand going to the US or Europe where he felt inferioir due to his blatant ignorance and lack of manners....he only felt at home with his ignorant equals. But anyway, getting back on track, Brazil has to go forward with Europe and the US, and any other country - why not ? - that can help pull Brazil out of this LA marasmus....Dilma has gotta get out from under Lula's influence , and set Brazil in the right direction. Let's see if she has the balls...

    Feb 01st, 2014 - 04:05 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ilsen

    81.46 Bsf / 1 USD
    106.97 Bsf / 1 Euro
    See http://dolartoday.com/

    ... still sliding...

    Feb 04th, 2014 - 12:21 am - Link - Report abuse 0

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