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Deputy PM Nick Clegg in Colombia calls for new drugs policy in the UK

Tuesday, February 4th 2014 - 23:09 UTC
Full article 36 comments

The UK should abandon its current drugs policy because the war on drugs is not being won, Nick Clegg has said. Speaking on a visit to Colombia, the deputy prime minister said different approaches were needed although he did not back full legalization. He also praised President Juan Manuel Santos commitment to the peace process with FARC and welcomed the human rights' policy. Read full article

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  • Anglotino

    Colombia continuing along the quiet path of diplomacy. As Argentina continues to slide into irrelevance, Colombia is starting to take on the role of the most powerful Spanish speaking country in South America.

    Also no mention of the Falkland Islands!

    Feb 04th, 2014 - 11:28 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • CabezaDura2

    1) I think that whit the last devaluation Colombia has supplanted Argentina as the second largest economy of South America, its being like that since 2012 but it must official now... It would be a good lesson and a shock of reality and humiliation for CFK if she is not allowed to sit in the G20 this year and instead President Santos sits in her chair...

    Feb 05th, 2014 - 12:09 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Condorito

    Clegg announced an alternative drug strategy as Avianca announced a new direct route from Bogota to London. Nice.

    @2 CD
    “I think that whit the last devaluation Colombia has supplanted Argentina as the second largest economy of South America”

    Before the devaluation it was close. At 8 to 1 most certainly. If/when the peso reached the parallel rate, it will be by a wide margin.

    Now there is no ketchup in McDonalds we can't even use the Economist Big Mac index.

    Feb 05th, 2014 - 12:58 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • CabezaDura2

    The Big Mac index in Argentina was frauded for some time back by Moreno. He had the supplier of Mac Donalds set up a price of $25 per hamburguer, but the combo never really existed in the Mc Donalds

    http://www.urgente24.com/219763-atragantado-con-un-big-mac-moreno-ya-no-comera-en-mcdonalds

    Everything data related is fraud, not just inflation but also GDP, un employment, growth, poverty, education, the entire government is a lie wrapped in a enigma and concealed in a tale that less and less people believe in…

    Its pretty clear by now that not even in late 2011 those 54.000 million USD where there in the Central Bank. There would have not being any real motive to implement the dollar clamp and import restrictions if those where the real reserves immediately after CFK got reelected otherwise..
    There is rum ours that the real usable reserves at disposal of the BCRA are barely 12.000 million USD and a extra 1200 million USD abroad.

    Feb 05th, 2014 - 01:18 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Narine T. Nüster

    @2, 3

    Well if that is the case then there will be no inflation then after the devaluation.

    Right?

    Because that is the only way that a devaluation can “shrink” a GDP, if the currency falls but salaries and prices of goods internally do not rise.

    If those two DO rise to match the fall in the currency, then the devaluation becomes irrelevant. If I sell a bottle of wine at 10 pesos equals 10 dollars, and tomorrow my government devalues to 20 pesos equals 10 dollars, then my product (and my salary/profit) is 50% lower. But if I soon after raise the price of the bottle to 20 pesos (100% “inflation” in the fiat currency), then at the end of the day it remains unchanged.

    Duh...

    Feb 05th, 2014 - 04:08 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Anglotino

    Toblerine

    I was going to say you need to do more research needed on the difference between nominal GDP and PPP GDP...... then I realised you just need to do more research on economics. Throw in a bit of elastic and in elastic products. Then move into competition theory.

    What if I increase my wine by only 90% and put you out of business. Or what if wage growth isn't the same as price growth. Inflation is a lagging indicator of what has increased. Wage increases are a predictive indicator of what might happen based in past inflation, employment and growth statistics.

    Oooh what if a currency depreciation makes it more profitable to export? Thereby reducing products available in the domestic market.... which could send prices rising faster.

    You have an extremely simplistic understanding of economics. But that is not news.

    Feb 05th, 2014 - 04:44 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Narine T. Nüster

    @6

    No, you want to make it more complicated just to suit you are hate Argentina agenda. But that is not news.

    Of course I simplified matters, just as if I told you the sun works by fusing 4 hydrogen to get 1 helium, but there are inner workings. HOWEVER, the basic rule does apply and no personal attacks can change that.

    Increasing your wine 90% vs my 100%, wage-price elasticity, and all the other non-sense you brought is nothing but obnubilation.

    But have at it, get your bash Argentina fix for the day.

    Feb 05th, 2014 - 04:58 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • CabezaDura2

    You have to accept the reality that Colombia has surpassed the Argentine economy.... Do you actually deny that the Argentine GDP measured in USD has decreased with the last devaluation??
    It becomes a downhill spiral between devaluation and inflation. It works with the inflation first and then devaluation not the other way round

    I like Colombia and I think they have endured a lot the last years and have done the right decisions, the same cannot be said of Argentina. They deserve to be in second place, I want to see Uribe or Santos sitting in the G20 and Cristina humiliated in her arrogance and expelled.

    It won’t be the first time Colombia sends the shivers down the back of Argentine arrogance and strike at the very heart of its pride
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MyvnXemunk0

    Feb 05th, 2014 - 05:12 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Narine T. Nüster

    I actually don't care. Let Chile, Peru, and Venezuela surpass us too.

    Not a big issue. Rankings come and go.

    Feb 05th, 2014 - 05:40 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Be serious

    What is certain is that Clegg will lose his seat at the next election.

    Feb 05th, 2014 - 07:59 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Britworker

    On one hand it is good news that Colombia are strengthening ties with the UK, but I just find Nick Cleggs posturing on the world stage completely laughable. The liberal democrats represent about 15% of the UK vote. He does not have a mandate from the British people to be speaking on our behalf.

    Feb 05th, 2014 - 08:19 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Stevie

    “You have an extremely simplistic understanding of economics”, they say.

    They they talk about Big Mac index...

    Priceless :)

    Feb 05th, 2014 - 08:32 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Conqueror

    @9 Whoops. Thought you were a EUanian.
    @11 9%.

    Pay no attention to Clegg (born 7 January 1967). He hasn't had a “brain” for 47 years. He is now 47 years and 29 days old.

    Feb 05th, 2014 - 02:09 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Usurping Pirate

    Nick Clegg is a bed wetting little nobody who is scared of his own shadow .

    Feb 05th, 2014 - 03:50 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Condorito

    @5 Toberine

    “Well if that is the case then there will be no inflation then after the devaluation.
    Right? ”

    Wrong.

    One of the big dangers of devaluation is inflation. To avoid it, fiscal and/or monetary tightening are required. If you don't believe me, just watch.

    @9
    It is evident that you don't care.
    Rankings only serve as an objective way to measure what is happening. As GDP shrinks, so does the wealth of the nation. Maybe that doesn't affect you personally, but it puts more people in to poverty. Only a very egotistical person could not care about the policies that destroy quality of life for so many.

    Feb 05th, 2014 - 06:39 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ChrisR

    With TTT's approach to economics being a measure of what he has “learnt” from the “government” of The Dark Country via his state schooling it is no wonder that the country is going downhill on full throttle.

    This train wreck is going to be spectacular but will affect Uruguay as well unfortunately.

    Feb 05th, 2014 - 07:05 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Anglotino

    Condorito and ChrisR

    I read Toblerine's reply and honestly just couldn't be bothered. How do you even reason with someone who is that ignorant?

    Scape-goating and a persecution complex seems to be part of the Argentine national psyche now. And considering the incessent whining that is now eminating from the government there, you can't be surprised. Toblerine likes to think of himself as an independently thinking person and yet he spews the exact same falsehoods that his government does.

    He was brainwashed and they did such a good job that he doesn't even realise it.

    Kirchnerism did have a winning decade in that it educated an entire generation to believe that Argentina is blameless. That multilateral organisations and multinational corporations sit around with nothing better to do than destroy Argentina. The sheer idiocy of this illogical viewpoint is breathtaking. Let alone that Argentina has such a high opinion of itself and it so conceited to think that it is some special sort of case that makes it such an attractive target.

    Speculators, profiteers and greedy capitalists exist in every country. But for some reason it is only in Argentina that they take on such mythically gigantic proportions that they seem to be at the centre of every economic issue.

    But there's a hint. The common theme that is at the heart of every problem facing Argentina and that doesn't seem to be present (and hence replicated) in other countries is..... the Argentine government.

    Feb 05th, 2014 - 09:08 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Stevie

    Wow
    You three solved Argentinas issues.

    You should in reality be more important than you are.

    Something is wrong here...

    Feb 05th, 2014 - 09:33 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Condorito

    @Anglotino
    It is disappointing that he can't put forward even a semi coherent argument.

    @ Toberine
    You didn't have to wait long to see the impact of the devaluation on inflation.... looks like it is coming in at 5% for Jan - you'd better take another look at your wine pricing.

    Feb 05th, 2014 - 09:47 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Anglotino

    Never said I was important Stevie... is that what the voices in your head told you?

    “Something is wrong here... ”

    Nope everything is as it has been, should be and will be. People like Condorito and myself discuss ideas and talk and people like you zoom in, snipe and disappear. How is that wrong? Perfectly normal to me.

    @ Condorito

    Toblerine once was able be coherent and to make a point, but he just could not break through the brain washing long enough to actually educate himself on reality. Pity he didn't get an education on the other side of the Andes - but then again, would you want your country overrun with Argentineans?

    Feb 06th, 2014 - 01:37 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • CabezaDura2

    20

    Careful now… Chileans have being immigrating to Eastern Patagonia for generations… Such to the point the old Cyclops Kirchner grandmother was Chilean … Others of his cronies like Rudy Ulloa Igor are Chilean born and have made fortunes robbing in Argentina. I have being educated in Argentina and I don’t consider myself inferior to the average Chilean, in fact in more than one occasion I have made you bite the dust…Toby is educated in Canada and not in Argentina.

    Feb 06th, 2014 - 02:17 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Stevie

    I mean it, all three of you should in reality be listened to. This setup of you spreading wisdom with me as the only one in the audience shouldn't continue.
    You lot deserve more attention. The world needs to understand you lot are important.

    Otherwise it's just a waste... Otherwise you lot are just a waste...

    Feb 06th, 2014 - 05:46 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Anglotino

    Yes yes Stevie we're just a waste.

    Now where was I?

    CabezaDura2

    Nostrils is in Mendoza. Not in Canada. Sorry you can't blame his brainwashing on anyone except your government.

    As far as I'm aware Chile doesn't suffer from La Campora infiltrating its schools, it doesn't indoctrinate generation after generation with a Malvinas myth created in the 1940s and doesn't have its economy implode as often either.

    The fact that so many Argentines keep falling for the bankrupt creed of Peronism again and again; no matter its form, doesn't bode well for its future. Chileans may emigrate to Argentina, but let's face it they add to Argentina. Chile really doesn't need the current crop of indoctrinated, brainwashed and unemployed Argentineans just when it is reaching this stage of development. A stage Argentina seems incapable of reaching.

    “in fact in more than one occasion I have made you bite the dust…”

    Really? I'd sure love to see the link to that.

    Feb 06th, 2014 - 06:13 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • CabezaDura2

    @22 Stevie
    That’s it?? Have you finished yet?? Dou you need some paper tissues or a cigarette??

    @23 Spare me the usual torment Anglotino, Chile wasn’t always like it is nowadays and Argentina was way ahead of it during most the XX Century... And for most part Patagonia was a pretty inhospitable, poor and unpopulated place and yet the Chileans preferred it to their own home country.
    I’m not saying that times haven’t changed, but to put things into perspective…
    I still think the Argentine middle class has produced and still has very bright people, I dont want to be disrespectfull to any others but I dont believe there is nothing compared to them in the rest of Latam. Ocasionaly very talented individuals in sports & arts come out of nowhere in Argentina, the problem is being intelligent and coordinated in collectiveness and not only individually and that is where we always take the beat… If you want to talk about education concerning the two countries come back when Chile has even earned Noble prices in Medicines and Sciences and not just poetry and letters.

    Feb 06th, 2014 - 06:47 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Anglotino

    The usual torment?

    What the hell are you going on about? You allude to a lot when replying to me but that doesn't make me tormented nor that you have made me “bite the dust”.

    Anyway we are not talking about Argentina's glory days that are now far in the past. It is 2014 and Argentina and Chile are what they are. One is an economic and social mess and Chile isn't. Does it look like either Argentina or Chile are going to majorly deviate from their current paths?

    I'm not saying Argentina isn't capable of producing bright people but such people are worthless if they aren't able to use their strengths and flourish. The fact that Argentina is now a nation of emigration and not immigration shows that people see their opportunities outside the restrictions and limitations of Argentina.

    And you think comparing Argentina's 5 Nobel Laureates with Chile's 2 makes Argentina look better? If we ignore Milstein who lived and worked in the UK, then Argentina hasn't really done much in the medical or sciences areas since 1970. Back in the glory days before the decline set in as an almost permanent feature.

    Argentina has huge potential and resources it is just a pity that the past is seen as the pinnacle of its success and not anytime in the future.

    Feb 06th, 2014 - 08:50 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Condorito

    Anglotino “bite the dust…” ! I don't think so. I understand “morder la almohada” is more his style. *

    [*The above is intended in light hearted jest]

    @Anglotino and CD2
    You might come from the land of plenty and the bread basket of Argentina respectively, but don't feed the troll. It gets enough EU hand outs already.

    Feb 06th, 2014 - 01:58 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • CabezaDura2

    What I’m saying is Argentina has one of the brightest and inventive middle classes in Latam, but it is suffocated by the Argentine state in every possible way.
    The proof of it is obviously in the past, but it’s still there. Chile who is growing and successful hasn't any state over burden among its people hasn’t produced them yet.
    I have admitted that times have changed yet you repeat over and over what I already know and refuse to see my point.

    And yes Anglotino, you tried to treat me like another Toby in the past…I think that more than once have earned my respect.

    Feb 06th, 2014 - 02:10 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Condorito

    @27
    I would agree with most of that, but I am not quite sure what you mean here:

    “Chile who is growing and successful hasn't any state over burden among its people hasn’t produced them yet. ”

    Feb 06th, 2014 - 03:25 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • CabezaDura2

    28 Well, fair point what was Chile's brain drainage in the past 20-30 years? Has Chile produced any Barenboim’s, Francis, Messis ?? Your most successful football national team in many years was coached by a Argentine. It doesn’t mean to say we are better but we are different. Argentina has a lot of individual talent while a lousy job at getting on with each other. Chileans are better at working as a team

    Feb 06th, 2014 - 04:59 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Condorito

    29
    You seem to be suggesting that Argentina produces more talented individuals than Chile. True in football certainly. But I am not sure why you eulogise Barenboim and refer to Neruda's achievements as “just poetry and letters”.

    On a wider point, you commit a common Argentine mistake of confusing being a big fish in a small pond with being a big fish. For example you say @27:
    “Argentina has one of the brightest and inventive middle classes in Latam”

    Whilst true, it isn't a great achievement.

    One change in recent years in Chile that I am pleased with is that we have stopped comparing ourselves so much with our neighbours and started comparing with other parts of the world. This has probably come about with us entering the OECD.

    You are now more likely to see a newspaper title “Chile 1st in LatAM in x,y and z” but “Chile 56th in OECD in x,y and z”. This is far more useful.

    Feb 06th, 2014 - 05:52 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Stevie

    Stop fighting with eachother.

    I'm here.

    Focus!!

    Feb 06th, 2014 - 06:16 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • CabezaDura2

    30
    You miss understand what I said to Anglotino who is more pro Chilean than the Chileans and more anti argentine than the Chileans (his ex is Chilean) he must have a fixiation of some sort. He implies that Argentine education is rubbish and Chile wouldent have Argentine ignorants flood the other side of the Andes, which is a very rich thing to say.

    I said to him that Argentina can produce very talented and gifted people in sports and arts out of nowhere (this obviously includes Barenboim) and that Chile has traditionally sent many immigrants to the Argentine Patagonia. However Im not saying that Chile’s Nobles in poetry were not worthy I meant that Chile hasn’t won anything in science nor medicine apart from letters and poetry.

    Feb 06th, 2014 - 06:30 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Condorito

    @32
    He is certainly anti-CFK and other Argie political leaders, but I don't think he is anti-argie.

    For the rest of the post, I get your point.

    On migration: I think the dynamic is unfavourable for Argentina. There are about 11,000 Chileans studying in Argie universities (for free) and about 10,000 Argies studying in Chilean universities (paid for).

    The different social models tend to move poor immigrants to Argentina.

    Feb 06th, 2014 - 07:08 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Anglotino

    CabezaDura2

    Yes I treated you like Toby one or twice, however at times you resorted to name calling and rude comments. However that was a rarity and I am cognisant of that fact.

    I agree that Argentina society is stifled by its government. However that government is the result of Argentine society. I don’t doubt and don’t claim that Argentina is not capable of so much more, but it is not the country it once was.

    And I am indeed more “pro Chilean” and this has nothing to do with my ex. I don’t have a fixation. What I have is education and knowledge. Currently I live with 3 Colombians and spend many hours with Colombians and Venezuelans (and loud music) at my home. I have travelled and studied and don’t lightly comment on Latin America. What I see in Chile is so many similarities with Australia and that is why I feel a strong kinship with Chile. Their politics are along the same ideological lines as Australia. Their economy has many of the same features and they are advancing along the same lines as we did about 30 years ago. However the funny thing is that it is Argentina that should have the most similarities and it isn’t. Before Peronism destroyed Argentina, they were one of the countries that we were comparable with. When you look at Australia, what you see is Argentina without Peronism.

    And I stand by my claim that Argentina’s education sector has problems. Too much propaganda and infiltration by La Campora is producing a generation of people like Nostrils who feel persecuted and spout government lies without being able to critically think.

    When Argentina’s economy collapses (I say when not if unfortunately), where do you think many Argentineans that want to escape will go? They will scatter everywhere but Chile will get more than its fair share due to proximity and shared culture. And what they will not bring is the education of Nobel Prize winners from 30 or 70 years ago, but the education of La Campora and the constant media brainwashing from CFK.

    Feb 07th, 2014 - 01:25 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • CabezaDura2

    As far as I understand Toby/Narine was up brought and educated in Canada. Maybe if he will clarify on this it would be helpful.

    The thing is Chile hasn’t exactly being sending their best to Argentina for generations either?? You don’t want to admit this. And i will tell you more perhaps a wave of Argentine educated middle class will leave towards Chile or Brazil if they find it hard to get to Europe or the US. Half the youngsters of this decade haven’t finished their secondary school so I wouldn't bet on their chances abroad.

    Feb 07th, 2014 - 02:20 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Anglotino

    “As far as I understand Toby/Narine was up brought and educated in Canada. Maybe if he will clarify on this it would be helpful.”

    Nostrils has never made me believe he is anything than a Mendocino. Some people claim that he from Canada and has similarities with other posters but as you can see his style is extremely unique so I believe he is who is claims (when lucid).

    “The thing is Chile hasn’t exactly being sending their best to Argentina for generations either?? You don’t want to admit this.”

    No I'll freely admit that may be the truth. As I have said before, don't assume you know what I think. Argentina was once seen as the land of opportunity for many foreigners. But other than poor Bolivians and Paraguayans, that is no longer the case. The potential is there for it to be again but how long does Argentina have to decline before Argentineans finally realise they are on the wrong path?

    “And i will tell you more perhaps a wave of Argentine educated middle class will leave towards Chile or Brazil if they find it hard to get to Europe or the US. Half the youngsters of this decade haven’t finished their secondary school so I wouldn't bet on their chances abroad.”

    Which is exactly what I claimed at the start.

    Feb 07th, 2014 - 10:18 am - Link - Report abuse 0

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