MercoPress. South Atlantic News Agency
BP warns of 'big uncertainties' over possibility of Scotland becoming independent
Oil giant BP boss Bob Dudley has warned there are “big uncertainties” for the company over the possibility of Scotland becoming independent. Mr Dudley told the BBC the “question mark” over which currency Scotland might adopt if there was a 'yes' vote in September's referendum was “a concern”. Read full article
Comments
Disclaimer & comment rulesAm sure BP will adapt if Scotland chooses independence. The problem with the North Sea is not political it's just that the oil is running out. English shale gas is the future.
Feb 06th, 2014 - 05:32 am - Link - Report abuse 0The more I read, the more I see that it is highly unlikely that Scotland will be able to use the GBP as its currency.
Feb 06th, 2014 - 06:46 am - Link - Report abuse 0For the love of God....VOTE YES....FREEDOM...please please please it will really really spite the English and avenge the Highland clearances, the battle of Culloden, and any other historic shite one could imagine.....FREEDOM!!!
Feb 06th, 2014 - 07:25 am - Link - Report abuse 0Oh shit....what? The English don't care, and on the whole would actually quite like the idea....and it's not as easy as Salmond made out now we can't join the Euro....and ......oh crap....
Now, how do I make it look like I am doing the “English a favour” by staying.....
LOL LOL LOL.....
(I know the majority of our Scottish friends never seriously considered Independence “FREEDOM”...but there are some imbeciles......LOL LOL LOL”
Please vote yes, please....it will be a right laugh....
Mm
Feb 06th, 2014 - 07:37 am - Link - Report abuse 0I'm with you all the way on the Falklands, but not here.
I will be a yes vote on our independance, and sorry-o, I do not qualify as an imbecile.
People who are sitting on top of their money making process do not want anything to disturb it.
@4
Feb 06th, 2014 - 07:42 am - Link - Report abuse 0Hopefully you are voting “yes” because of polical and economic benefits and not for a Mel Gibson style “FREEEEEDOM”. If it is the latter...(as others) then it is imbecilic.
I sincerely hope Scotland does vote independence. I don't want 50+ Labour MPs in Westminster, just as most Scots don't want a Tory Prime Minister. This has nothing to do with Robert the Bruce or Mel Gibson.
As a member of a highland clan and born in Scotland, with an English mother, Welsh family members, and engaged to a woman from Ireland, I can honestly say the family is much better together..... Westminsters financial clout is something that should not be given up easily..... The fact that we as a United Kingdoms are by population one of the most productive peoples in the history of our species..... We Scots have comple freedom and a very stable group of nations to backs us up in Wales, England and Northern Island, plus all our brother BOTs.... Long live Scotland and Long live our United Kingdoms....
Feb 06th, 2014 - 08:31 am - Link - Report abuse 0It will all come down to one thing 'Pound Sterling'. Once the penny drops that the UK will not be taking part in a sterling zone, this independence vote is dead in the water.
Feb 06th, 2014 - 08:38 am - Link - Report abuse 0I really dont think our other partners in the UK have an understanding of why we are actually where we are. My belief is that the structure of government in the UK is wrong and the only way to avoid arriving at the independence question repeatedly is to reform the governmental structures within the UK. To me, this means federalism with an assembly for England based outside London (my preference would be in the North of England, Leeds?) to re-balance the structures of power as everything is based in SE England to the detriment of all other areas. However, turkeys do not vote for Xmas and Westminster will do all it can to prevent this. An example of this power imbalance is that if there is a no vote at the referendum and we have our referendum on EU membership, England with its greater voting power could withdraw the UK from the EU and Scotland which I believe is generally more pro EU will be forced out of the EU against its wishes. I believe that examples such as this are what are at the heart of the independence debate in Scotland rather than any latent hatred of our neighbours. People should understand this. The SNP government in Scotland is quite popular as it is seen to be doing its best for Scotland and doing it in the main. competently. Westminster needs to wake up as even if there is a no vote, there is a general election in 2015 and what will happen if the SNP turn in a majority of Scottish MP's. The SNP may even be playing the long game to see if another Tory government is elected in England. Mr Salmond is not regarded by many commentators as the outstanding politician in the UK today for no reason. Cameron appears too scared to take him on at the hustings and is therefore seen as weak. In Scotland, Labour are in a mess, the Tories are unelectable and the Libdems, tainted by association will be wiped out (very sad for a party with previously strong Scottish roots). Who does this leave people to vote for? The SNP. Salmond is not daft.
Feb 06th, 2014 - 09:49 am - Link - Report abuse 0The SNP simply dismisses as being irrelevant any person/organisation voicing an opinion contrary to their goal of independence because they are unable to counter the points being made.
Feb 06th, 2014 - 10:07 am - Link - Report abuse 0The head of the Bank of England says a sterling zone is not a foregone conclusion - well that's just a personal opinion so we'll ignore it.
The President of the European Commission says there will be no automatic entry for Scotland into the EU - well that's just a personal opinion so we'll ignore it.
The President of the European Council says there will be no automatic entry for Scotland into the EU - well that's just a personal opinion so we'll ignore it.
NATO says there can be no entry for a state opposed to nuclear weapons - well that's just a personal opinion so we'll ignore it.
Now the Chief Executive of BP voices concerns HIS company has about independence - well that's a personal opinion so we'll just ignore that too.
And as for the claim:
“the continued use of sterling has the overwhelming support of the people of Scotland and the public in the rest of the UK”
Where is the evidence of this mythical overwhelming UK support because I haven't heard anyone other than the SNP make this claim.
Week by week the SNP claims are being shown to be nothing more than a combination of wishful thinking and complete fantasy.
If Scotland votes for independence then good luck to them, because they'll need it.
@9
Feb 06th, 2014 - 10:19 am - Link - Report abuse 0“Steuart” occasionally posts a very similar comment and then disappears.
Death and taxes, Scots nationalists bitching about the English................
Feb 06th, 2014 - 10:21 am - Link - Report abuse 0I couldn't care less myself but I have several quandaries.
How does being a fully paid up member of the EU ever equate to any kind of independence? Things are bad now. Our MPs, MSPs etc can't take a dump without EU approval and the line is straight and true. More EU. Federal EU, political union, economic union, none of which equates to independence.
How does the SNP see the row with the Eu panning out about new member status? The requirement to apply for membership and the the requirement to adopt the Euro if accepted?
This referendum is a purely Scottish debate but any plan to retain Sterling won't be. Sorry but on this you have no choice but to consult the rest of us and personally I will be voting no. No to an independent Scotland having any political say or sway in my country. We won't underwrite your economy, we won't be your lender of last resort. Independence means independence. I have no truck with the a West Lothian Question whilst Scotland is a part if the UK. Outside it, you can keep your noses out.
The SNP blueprint for independence is a cake and eat it policy. They think they can still pull strings in Westminster and the BoE post independence and truth be told if 'our' politicians are really that stupid then fair play. Roll the dice and see what happens but my money is on the SNP losing that bet.
I look forward to watching NSO go from being a small slice of the UK economy to becoming a critically large slice of the Scottish economy followed by a rebellion in Shetland and Orkney............ Blah blah blah.
This referendum has already been won and lost. September 18/19 is simply when the results are published but whatever happens, Scots nationalists will never stop bitching about the English whilst ordinary Scots and English will mutually take the piss as is and as will always be.
@ 8 Steuart
Feb 06th, 2014 - 10:28 am - Link - Report abuse 0“Salmond is not daft”
Correct, he is a wily coyote, raving lunatic.
And if your education in “English” is anything to go by if the Scots piss off they had better get the education system updated: have you never heard of paragraphs?
@ Steuart
Feb 06th, 2014 - 10:35 am - Link - Report abuse 0While i personally hope Scotland votes No, I also hope they do it for the right reason. Arguably, Scotland would be in a more powerful position to make gains under DevoMax than as a foreign country under independence. If there is a genuine democratic or economic deficit that Scotland suffers then as a nation I would fully support dealing with that reasonably, if not generously. However, if Scotland declares independence then why would i want to negotiate a currency and debt deal favourable to Scotland if it is a foreign country and I will lose out? And I say that as a pro-Scottish Brit. If the Scots want independence above all else then they should just go for it regardless of the consequences. But clearly the majority of Scots ARE thinking through the consequences and rightly so.
As for Cameron's refusal to debate, the whole point of self-determination is to determine it yourself. There is literally nothing that Cameron could say in such a debate that the SNP could not sell as the plummy Englishman with his heel on the Scottish neck, so the debate is utterly redundant. Salmond is only calling for it because he knows Cameron won't do it. Salmond should debate with his fellow Scots from the No campaign if he believes in the strength of his own arguments.
#
Feb 06th, 2014 - 10:59 am - Link - Report abuse 0The referendum question is SO important and everyone in Scotland feels so passionately about it that 1 million people have not bothered to register for a vote !!
@13 Redrow
Feb 06th, 2014 - 11:01 am - Link - Report abuse 0“I also hope they do it for the right reason”
Agreed. This is what it comes down to for both Yes and No camps. The benefits and drawbacks need to be explained honestly, in full, by both the Scottish and UK Governments so that the Scottish people can make a genuinely balanced decision.
It's not good enough (from either side) to simply dismiss or ignore each other when faced with legitimate concerns about the consequences of the result, whatever that result may be.
The Braveheart effect is a very interesting one and has I think a populist rather than a popular appeal. As a point of reference Edward the First was not English. He was the King of England yes but he wasn't English. He didn't like the English, he detested them because even in his day, generations after the Norman conquest the English were still revolting. Those Norman castles weren't just for show, they were for protection and it was Norman soldiers that generally 'kept the peace' in a manner of speaking. Anyway, Edward I was Norman and he spoke Norman French. English was the language of the serf.
Feb 06th, 2014 - 11:09 am - Link - Report abuse 0So when the kings of England decided to invade the rest of the island they didn't use English troops because they didn't trust them. They didn't use Norman troops either because they were keeping the rebellious English in line down south. No. They used European mercenaries and they came from all over. France, Italy, Spain, Germany you name it. They spoke dozens of different languages none of which was English.
The first King of England to speak English was Henry IV centuries later and the first to encourage its use in politics and religion was Henry V. Which is when the English began to accept them, peace settled and people began to prosper.
Ironic isn't it? The people who invaded Scotland were essentially the same people who invaded England and Wales. Imagine if we had been united back then. Or even further back when the Romans invaded. Fascinating thought.
16 Furry-Fat-Feck
Feb 06th, 2014 - 11:56 am - Link - Report abuse 0strange your are so well tuned up on history Bruce was of Norman origin also not sure how your brave heart bit fits into the picture, Bruce had dealt quite a number of defeats on Edwards cohorts although Edward never faced Bruce in battle because of his contempt for him but in the end the hammer had to come and deal with him it is a pity the English King died on his re conquest campaign before he met the man who was more than capable of matching him.
As for the Romans I have no ideal why you have the impression some how that a united people of Britain could or would have stopped them. The Scottish tribes did it all on their own as two walls can testify to it then maybe the people of England like the Romans who also knew what was better for us still don`t understand! the difference in the Norman invasion in Scotland was nothing in compared to England or Wales as it was peaceful the Normans were invited in by English born Scottish Queen called Margret and filled her court with Normans. in conclusion I think your analogy is less than accurate.
17 Oder 1001 (#)
Feb 06th, 2014 - 12:29 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Feb 06th, 2014 - 11:56 am
Yes well that's personal opinions for you. Everybody is entitled to them. I do not hold the impression that a united Britain would have made any difference to the Roman invasion. Maybe it would have, maybe not. No idea. You're putting words in my mouth for some reason. Insecurity perhaps? I didn't make any conclusions and it wasn't an analogy. I wasn't comparing anything I was telling a story as I understand it purely as a matter of interest. I was musing, nothing more.
The Scottish 'tribes' did it all on their own eh? A few of them united to defeat the roman threat? Not just one tribe on its own no? Fair enough. Fill your boots.
I think the whole idea is interesting, nothing more and because it is purely academic you can do what you want with it. Try not to be so defensive, nobody is out to get you.
It may seem to the contrary but I am actually a supporter of the union but believe you have to up with the debate to understand it.
Feb 06th, 2014 - 12:30 pm - Link - Report abuse 0#9 Thanks Lou, I agree with you but is this not something all politicians do? You just have to watch PMQ's to see this. The reason we are where we are is because the 'unionist' parties at the 2010 Scottish Elections told the electorate if we voted SNP the sky would fall on our heads. The SNP on the other hand said that in the previous administration we formed a minority administration, did not go in for coalitions but still managed to return 80+% of our manifesto pledges (this proved their politcal astuteness). They also said that they were able to show a balanced budget (fiscal astuteness). These positive messages were accepted and they gained an overall majority in the Scottish Parliament because people felt they could trust them. This in a voting system devised to ever prevent them from doing so (clever).
So far Westminster has not presented a single policy position showing the benefits of the union (disappointing). They have concentrated of telling us the sky will fall on our heads (sound familiar?). I hope for a no vote but if you have been following the debate here, you will know that the yes campaign is beginning to gain ground (Scotland on Sunday) and only has to match the current gains to win a majority. Cameron, if he really feels the union is worth saving, should stand up for that union for which he is the leader of and be seen to be doing so. The lot he has doing this job for him are not up to the task.
#13 Redrow, I agree but as always in politics, its how these things are presented. I believe the yes campaign is gaining momentum and it entirely because of the negative 'plan fear' strategy adopted by the unionist parties. Let the UK government be positive about the union not negative about independence.
19 Steuart (#)
Feb 06th, 2014 - 01:24 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Feb 06th, 2014 - 12:30 pm
I think you are over egging the idea that Westminster are predicting the end of the world for an independent Scotland or the No campaign for that matter. If anything Westminster are staying well out if it and are hard put to give an opinion even when asked for one.
The SNP spin is that it would be the end of the world for a post referendum period where the Scottish people said no.
It's swings and roundabouts they are as bad as each other and people will believe what they want to believe and the SNP have never put a positive spin on the UK so what's the difference?
The SNP may be politically and economically astute or maybe not as all politicians use smoke and mirrors even Scottish nationalist politicians bless em'. But they are also assuming too much post independence. They are making decisions for people in what remains of the UK and that is simply not going to wash. There are some very serious questions that they cannot or will not answer because they don't like the truthful answers.
I understand the need to develop other areas of the country..... Yet London still is the financial capital of the world. The significant amount of our genuine influence originates and is maintained there........ Edinburgh is also a very well developed and affluent city, along with Aberdeen, Inverness and Glasgow. What I fail to see is evidence of a lack of major investment in the other areas. Good investments are made. It just appears London is more affluent as so much international money flows through it. Even in Europe a silly large number such as arkund 40% of all European transactions go through London. That's without even mentioning the transactions and money made available to the rest of the world.
Feb 06th, 2014 - 01:27 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@ Steuart
Feb 06th, 2014 - 03:05 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I don't disagree with that - but it always hard to promote the status quo since its good and bad points are so well known. It is Salmond who wants to change the status quo and thus it is for him to project a clear vision of a different future. However, clarity is his enemy since independence can only work if he immediately hands sovereignty straight back to the BoE and the EU. Ultimately though, that is for Better Together to point out rather that Cameron.
Salmond is like one of those Dragon's Den entrepreneurs who don't know their figures, has no business plan and expects the Dragon's to do all the work and yet still gets taken seriously by sheer force of personality. Despite all the economic and political warnings the Yes vote has seen some movement and only needs a fairly small further swing to make it all to play for. It's hard to know what else the NO campaign can do except to point out the huge number of foreseeable risks and pull out a few celebrities.
21 Although I really hate to admit it you are absolutely right. UK Govt does need however to balance finance against manufacturing. For too long Govt has turned its nose up against manufacturing and heavy industry and this has proved a disaster.
Feb 06th, 2014 - 03:11 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Salmond has at least provided an official paper on what they see as the future for Scotland. While it is fine to pick it apart and point out what you disgree with, what vision of the future have the UK govt given? None. Let them write down what their vision for the future are and fight their case on the basis of that. The name of the unionist campaign is 'Project Fear'. Having watched the the Scottish Secretary being mauled by Nicola Sturgeon on the hustings it appeared the SNP wear on the front foot. The fear seems to be with the unionists. While people may choose to deride Salmond, it may be more worthwhile to understand his motivation. He is apparently one of the UK's leading oil economists not just a party man who worked through the ranks. We can argue about currencies but as the SNP say, for example, Scotland owns a share of the Bank of England and if it does'nt get access to the assets then why should we be prepared to take a share of the liabilities i.e. UK debt? This had the governor of the BoE making an appointment to come to Scotland the following day. There is merit in this argument and as for the the EU, we're already hard wired in, what is the merit of unwiring us to re-wire? What would happen to the common fisheries policy, EU students studying for free in Scotland? If there is enough of a desire to do a deal then it will be done. If there is not then why not? Vindictiveness? These are the questions that need answered. The SNP only needs to win once, the case for the union should be a positive one and needs to be continually made.
Feb 06th, 2014 - 03:58 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The effect of a yes vote would always have an impact on the rest of the UK. It is a testament to the complacency of the current government that they did have not studied the consequencies although they have been aware of the SNP's plans since May 2010. This level of incompetence is mana to the SNP.
Behold here the difference between Argentines and my EUian cousins the Anglos!
Feb 06th, 2014 - 04:40 pm - Link - Report abuse 0When a “controversial” UK story makes it to the Mercopress field of vision (a rare event indeed as they simply ignore bad news from the UK or EU unless it is Spain of course), not one single argentine comes here to crassly taunt, to behave boorishly, to expel vitriol, to objurgate, to demean, or to extravagantly bluster or vaunt.
When a news article on Argentina comes out, no sooner that all my EUian Anglo cousins fall upon it to crassly taunt, to behave boorishly, to expel vitriol, to objurgate, to demean, or to extravagantly bluster or vaunt.
Stunning contrast between the educated Argentines and us envious, jejune, and uninhibitedly insecure EUians. :(
In a matter of self-determination, it is up to Scotland to decide what it wants and nothing to do with the UK government. The people of Scotland voted an SNP majority government into Holyrood and got a Referendum as a result. No-one is responsible for that except the people of Scotland. If a Yes vote follows then again that is up to the Scots. Obviously there will then be a whole series of consequences (not to do with “vindictiveness” but yes, self-interest), but the more the UK government points out those consequences the more Salmond will cry “blackmail”. So the best course of action for the rest of us to is to sit back and let you decide what you want.
Feb 06th, 2014 - 04:42 pm - Link - Report abuse 0As for Europe, it's not the UK that is your problem but any country that doesn't want its wealthy regions to secede. I would have thought it would be highly likely that Scotland's entry would be vetoed but hey that's Project Fear for you. At least Cameron respected Salmond's democratic mandate to hold the referendum, but are the Scots absolutely certain that the same will apply when Salmond asks to join the EU but not the Euro? Like I said, I hope you vote No but don't wish to be blamed if you do.
#25
Feb 06th, 2014 - 05:35 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Educated Argentinians ? Marcos, DB, Sussie, Ron..... Take off your blinkers.
24 Steuart (#)
Feb 06th, 2014 - 05:48 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Feb 06th, 2014 - 03:58 pm
Is it vindictive to desire independence and self determination from what you regard as a foreign country? I don't know, maybe only if you are English. You tell me.
Don't forget that England, Wales and Northern Ireland have a stake in Scottish banks, broadcasting, infrastructure, defence, health care, schools.............. If Scotland wants a finger in BoEs pie will the UK have a finger in all of these Scottish pies and if not, why not? Vindictiveness? A desire for independence?
If you don't intend to change anything because it might affect Scotland adversely then why change it? Doesn't that argument favour the no campaign? In a positive way?
That isn't to say that the UK doesn't change, of course it does. All progressive societies do. But I'd argue against doing it suddenly and for the sake of it or out of, as you say, vindictiveness.
24 Steuart
Feb 06th, 2014 - 05:53 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Hi Doveoverdover !!!!
Nah... its A_Voice, doesn't want to be identified...
Feb 06th, 2014 - 07:58 pm - Link - Report abuse 0One CAT,
Feb 06th, 2014 - 08:22 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Many many pigeons..
wait.lol
Hahahaha - pigeons!
Feb 06th, 2014 - 09:11 pm - Link - Report abuse 0https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BfvHgWrIcAAiOy-.png
18 Furry-Fat-Feck (#)
Feb 06th, 2014 - 10:07 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I only stated the facts which you were unable to refute, and my only opinion was that you were wrong in your assessment which you are. the Romans were stopped by the tribes whether united or not. what words did I put in your mouth? you shouldn`t get so hot under the collar over Scottish independence looks like its the thought of being rejected is your problem, then of course there are 54 nations previously left Westminster control and opted for independence are they full of vindictiveness an anti Englishness as well? if not would you like to explain why? every body hates the English eh, I speak to plenty of nationalists and their concern is Scotland they are not bothered with England never mind spending the time hating them you over rate your importance to the Scots. and yes you are correct they are British banks, British companies and Scotland has a share in them to.
Change cannot happen with out effect you are mistaken to believe that using the £ is a permanent measure it isn`t it is temporary only should the rest of the union decided that the Scots will not use sterling £50 Billion will be removed from the British GDP figures overnight don`t believe me ask an
English financial expert what the repercussions will have for the value of the pound. there is good reason for both to use it, so up your game if you want to support unionism that`s fine! do yourself and the no campaign a favour try being positive about it and listen to what they are saying, the biggest mistake is to reduce the situation to the lowest common denominator because the English don`t understand. the Scots hate the English, between me and you never met an Englishman worth hating you don`t even come close.
33 Oder 1001 (#)
Feb 06th, 2014 - 10:23 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Feb 06th, 2014 - 10:07 pm
Oh dear.
Look. So as not to continue embarrassing yourself I'm not English. I'm not Scottish either but where I come from your still all the same. I don't have a horse in this race. Seriously I don't care what you do and I'm not offended or upset. I'm just here chewing the cud.
And please try using paragraphs it's easier to read that way.
british petrol?
Feb 06th, 2014 - 10:29 pm - Link - Report abuse 0i thought they were all in jail.
after deepwater horizon, the least thing they deserve is life imprisonment
See what happens when you think Paul!
Feb 07th, 2014 - 12:28 am - Link - Report abuse 0@33 - “ everyone hates the English”....... You don't know much about the world do you...... I (as in me) am a Scot raised in England, with a very distinct English accent. I travel around world on a regular basis working with many people from all corners of the globe... Due to my accent people mistake me for English.... I'm treated with a lot of respect and both my fellow Brits I travel with have many friends from many different nations....... So the truth is that people from England and the UK in general have many friends and many allies........ Argentina has almost none........
Feb 07th, 2014 - 12:29 am - Link - Report abuse 037
Feb 07th, 2014 - 12:52 am - Link - Report abuse 0“So the truth is that people from England and the UK in general have many friends and many allies”
...well done, the testimony and opinion of one Brit has convinced me beyond absolute certainty...
...if you tell me that the world is flat...I think I'll accept your word on that also....
.....great post......not!
....and stop stealing my ellipses...Think and I share, there's not enough for you too..
@37 - monumental fail on your part. The UK is a leading ctural power. It has and always will be...... Unfortunately for you the feeble attempts of detracting from this fact falls flat with anyone who travels the planet..... You should come and visit the UK. Several of my friends are from Brazil and I even have a friend from Argentina..... Shock horror he is actually intelligent.... I expect that's why he now lives in the UK and has not plan to return to be dark country....... The UK will continue to be outward looking and will continue to engage with the world...... Argentina however is but a hair width away from breaking up..... The rest of the world is enjoying the fact....... That's a hard truth for you to bare...... I genuinely feel sorry for you but I and almost all others saw it coming....
Feb 07th, 2014 - 01:32 am - Link - Report abuse 037.
Feb 07th, 2014 - 01:41 am - Link - Report abuse 0“people from England and the UK in general have many friends and many allies........ Argentina has almost none........”
are you sure you travel around world?
i mean, do you include the arab nations, latin america, ireland, spain, italy, france, germany, india, pakistan, afghanistan, iran, iraq, syria, and the list goes on?
do you think the english are appreciated there?
well, you are wrong.
of course that problem does not exist with the welsh and scottish, but the english...they are hated worldwide.
@40 - you plank! I've worked in Munich for 2years. Never have I lived in a place that had made me more welcome.... You forget the English are a Germanic tribe.... Scots have a huge Scandinavian influence....... While studying A levels there were several men from Afghanistan on the maths course in including many from Africa..... I know of only two who have now returned. All the others are now British citizens..... Ha ha major fail for the typical lying mischievous Argentinian Trolls....... You really should contrate on the hell hole that it Argentina and arrest your crook leaders...... You guys have almost no time left and the world is rejoicing at it....... It's really sad but still the world rejoices .....
Feb 07th, 2014 - 02:59 am - Link - Report abuse 0-- Rory Stewart, the Tory MP, told the Commons that he wants 100,000 Britons to hold hands along Hadrian’s Wall this summer to show the support that exists between the four nations of the Union”
Feb 07th, 2014 - 03:55 am - Link - Report abuse 0LMAO
Actually I've travelled extensively and I don't think either the British (or English) nor Argentineans are particularly disliked by anyone. Lest of all by certain nationalities.
Feb 07th, 2014 - 06:39 am - Link - Report abuse 0From what I have witnessed, on a person to person basis it doesn't matter what your nationality is. Governments may say one thing but the people usually can think for themselves. A good example is Iran. Considering what the government says about Americans and Europeans, you won't find a more hospitable people.
When you get off the beaten path as I have done in places like Guatemala and Colombia, people are so keen to meet you and ask you what you think about their country.
41
Feb 07th, 2014 - 07:57 am - Link - Report abuse 0you said...
“Scots have a huge Scandinavian influence....... While studying A levels there were several men from Afghanistan on the maths course in including many from Africa..... ”
Not in Scotland you didn't....give up on your tall tales...cuckoo!
@44 - raised in England numbskull. If your father was also not your uncle you'd have the IQ to spot that. The failed attempts at distraction again. The UK continues to do well. It has many friends and allies throughout the world.... Argentina is crumbling due to deceat and corruption..... You RG Trolls will be offline soon once the implosion is complete
Feb 07th, 2014 - 08:26 am - Link - Report abuse 045 JollyGoodFuc
Feb 07th, 2014 - 09:19 am - Link - Report abuse 0Pity you didn't study English and the meaning of Ambiguity....
“Scots have a huge Scandinavian influence....... While studying A levels there were several men from Afghanistan on the maths course...
...also @39
“I expect that's why he now lives in the UK and has not plan to return to be dark country”
If it was A levels...you flunked English Language...;-))))
Furry my friend, practice your reading if its too hard and check your history! lol.
Feb 07th, 2014 - 09:27 am - Link - Report abuse 0#41 There is a big Scandanavian influence in Scotland which largely ended in the 13th Century.
As I said, there is a misunderstanding among out English friends as to the issues. Issues that are significant include the English EU referendum promised by Cameron. The likelihood of another Tory government at Westminster, do the rumours of a £4bn cut in the Scottish budget have substance?
You may recall as I do when the SNP announced their referendum plans in January 2012 that Cameron treid to stop it. The fools in Westminster has not read the 2010 SNP election manifesto which stated this was going to happen. that is the level of incompetence of the Westminster government. It handed Salmond the very public opportunity to say ' the days of a Tory government in Westminster telling Scotland what it can or cannot do are over'. I think he waited 20 years to say that. There is no doubt it has a populist appeal given Westminsters interference in Scotland.
I think the problem for the RUK is that they really dont get what is going on in Scotland. You only have to read the comments of #3. There is a divergence from the way Scotland is going and the rest of the UK. Westminster is promising more of the same and Scotland are off in another direction From issues such as the bedroom tax to renewable energy, the electorate here are off the Westminster page. The tories and libdems dont get it because they are looking at from a UKcentric perspective.
Scotland is a rich country in its own right. Richer in natural resources and wealth than most of the UK. WE have 90% of the UK's fresh water, 25% of Europes renewables potential ( recentlyOxford and Aberdeen Universities published a report saying that a single turbine in the Pentland Firth could supply half of Scotlands electricity). 35% of Scotlands electricity already comes from renewables. The SNP have invested in this area and 12000 jobs created.
@46 A_Voice,
Feb 07th, 2014 - 09:52 am - Link - Report abuse 0Quite the pedantic little laddy, aren't we?
And quick to criticize when proved wrong.
All JollyGoodFun needed to do was put a comma after “levels” .
And he did say that he was raised in England @ post #37.
You really do need to concentrate more, A_Voice.
48
Feb 07th, 2014 - 09:59 am - Link - Report abuse 0Concentrate on your British spellings.....CRITICISE ...pedantic Moi...?
Anyone would think you were Johnny Foreigner...
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BfvHgWrIcAAiOy-.png
Feb 07th, 2014 - 10:02 am - Link - Report abuse 0@46 - ha ha A_voice, if this was a debating competition you'd of lost so so many times over. You poor, poor helpless “lackie”. Your nation crumbles, nothing but lies and misdirection come out of your mouth. You have no rational response to almost all argument you attempt to get involved in...... And here you are criticising the predictive text of my IPhone5... (I'm almost crying with laugher at your metal prowess)... Keep leading the rebellion and keep spreading Argentina's version of history...... It keeps most people amused......
Feb 07th, 2014 - 10:22 am - Link - Report abuse 047 Steuart (#)
Feb 07th, 2014 - 10:48 am - Link - Report abuse 0Feb 07th, 2014 - 09:27 am
Yes yes yes. I get it. You've got it all right and everybody else has got it all wrong and you're all terribly misunderstood and the rest of us know f'all and blah blah blah.
We've got it. Problem for you is nobody really cares and you're wasting your time trying to convince us how right you are.
@47 - surely we should be looking to have a greater say over the local decisions being made. This would be better suited to devolution max. We keep the significant benefits of the Union but also the flexibility to run more productive local economies. The arguments being made are at both ends of the spectrum. The middle ground should be the Union stands (and it is a Union that has been a very influential and beneficial for the progress of mankind) yet all the nations within it agree on a new political structure. We're a democratic and innovative people. We can achieve a win win situation here. Independence will on balance a few significant gains with a few significant loses..... There are numerous Brits who also care for the social side of the union (myself included in that my ancestors are Scottish, Welsh and English). My children will have truly British blood through their Irish mother. The rational middle argument needs to be made.... The people in England, Wales, Scotland and Northern Island would also like to the political landscape change but not at the detriment of the union of our peoples.
Feb 07th, 2014 - 11:13 am - Link - Report abuse 0@4 You are, of course, entitled to your point of view. BUT, am I not right in saying that, in the old days, the clan chiefs decided and the people did as they were told? Have you read the “Scotland analysis” at https://www.gov.uk/government/collections/scotland-analysis
Feb 07th, 2014 - 11:17 am - Link - Report abuse 0I know there's a lot of it, but at least you'd be able to tell where Salmond is lying. Just like he lied about the “legal opinion” he's never had. Now here's the various “bottom lines”. Some Scots like to trumpet about how much they pay in to the UK. But that's only been since the 60s. What was it like for the previous 240 years? A relatively short period of research and you will learn that Scotland will NOT be a “successor state” to the UK, Scotland ISN'T entitled to 9% of the UK's assets, Scotland CAN'T have free movement, trade etc into the UK, EVERYTHING and EVERYONE in Scotland, apart from Salmond & Co WILL suffer. I can assure you that with the attitude displayed by Salmond, and his supporters, more and more English are becoming anti-Scots. That's not a good place to be when 5 million Scots are facing 53 million English. Can I point out that, at present, the UK government is responsibly explaining things for ALL its citizens. Including Scots.
@8 Very nicely and sensibly put. But can I ask some questions? Are you planning on abandoning democracy? What are you planning to do when Edinburgh sees things one way and Inverness, Aberdeen, Dundee and Glasgow sees them differently? Will you be having city-states? Clan rule? Wars?
@24 Have you read https://www.gov.uk/government/collections/scotland-analysis ?
@25 Bacteria don't have “cousins”.
@33 https://www.gov.uk/government/collections/scotland-analysis Seems to have been more because Severus was ill. Shouldn't underestimate that. And there will be NO “official” sterling union!
@47 You're quite right! England, Wales and Northern Ireland don't have any rivers or lakes. Or rain!
53 JollyGoodFuc
Feb 07th, 2014 - 12:17 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Looks like you are desperately trying to establish a history and identity...extolling the virtues of yourself and the British....sure signs of a puppet....
Take away the name and you sound like all the rest of the wannabes...Yawn...
54
“ You're quite right! England, Wales and Northern Ireland don't have any rivers or lakes. Or rain!”
Course they do....Lake Somerset ...
#52 Furrballs me old mate, you clearly have not got 'it'
Feb 07th, 2014 - 12:58 pm - Link - Report abuse 0#53 Good points - takes me back to my initial post on federalism.
#54 Conq- Thank you for your most recent anti Scottish (and anti unionist rant) so you agree that for the last 50 or so years SCotland has been paying its way-thanks I knew that already. I am not in possession of the data for the previous 240 years and clearly your not too.
Clan chiefs had a lot of power - in centuries past but then so did the church - whats your point?
I think you are becoming more anti-Scottish as most posters here seem to have relevant poitns to make. They are not prejudging the ruling on independence by the UK, EU, BoE etc as you are.
The cities of Scotland already regularly display differences of opinion and have done for centuries without the need to declare independence from each other or have you not noticed? We have mechanisms for sealing with this.
In short you should try to keep up.
@56 - perhaps federalism is a sensible way forward. We would still need a centralized executive. Also the constitutional monarchy system I believe should and would be retained. It would add the risk to the rise in nationalism of member states though in the long run...... Personally I will vote no and the majority of eligible Scots (although Salmond has put significant restrictions on that) will also go that way. The positive thing though is that we're all once again considering our political system and how to ensure in benefits all. Hopefully it'll at the very least have Westminster update the way in which it proceeds in future.
Feb 07th, 2014 - 01:20 pm - Link - Report abuse 057
Feb 07th, 2014 - 01:30 pm - Link - Report abuse 0What nonsense is this...“Personally I will vote no”...?
Are you now going to tell us you live in Scotland and are eligible to vote...?
It gets better and better...
56 Steuart (#)
Feb 07th, 2014 - 02:39 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Feb 07th, 2014 - 12:58 pm
“#52 Furrballs me old mate, you clearly have not got 'it'”
England and Scotland (and eventually the rest of the UK) is heading for a divorce due to irreconcilable differences. Yes?
Scots are more pro EU than England. Yes?
Scots do not want the UK to have a referendum on EU membership. Yes?
How am I doing so far? Remember if you are going to assume that I a stupid perhaps you should keep it as simple as possible. What d'ya say? Bullet points maybe?
#59 No Furrylugs you clearly have not got it!
Feb 07th, 2014 - 03:10 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Firstly the referendum is about independence from the UK not England.
Secondly Scots are not necessarily more pro EU perhaps less any anti as witnessed by UKIP's failure to establish itself in Scotland. In fairnessUKIP did beat the Libdems in the recent Fife bye election. But I suspect that is a taster of what waits them come the next general election (pity in my opinion, I had a lot of respect for them until they joined the tories and backtracked on their election pledges).
Thirdly, I cannot comment on whether the Scots want a referendum on the EU. The Tories never asked us before deciding. Therein lies a large part of the reason why we are where we are.
Hope that clears things up a bit for you.
TWIMC
Feb 07th, 2014 - 05:16 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Doesn’t matter if you are a lowlander, a highlander or even a double crossing bloody Campbell…….... as long as you vote YES, 222 days from now…
60 Steuart (#)
Feb 07th, 2014 - 05:26 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Feb 07th, 2014 - 03:10 pm
Think about this chap. Name calling and condescending behaviour whilst not particularly bothersome doesn't strike me as the way of somebody who is 100% confident of their position. I am aware of the difference between England an the UK just so that you know for future reference.
Maybe you're right. Maybe I don't get it but I am prepared to admit my uncertainty and try to understand. Resorting to petty name calling and convincing yourself that your argument is all sewn up seems a bit lame though.
I've read what you have said, it doesn't contradict my point of view because there are always two or more sides to a story aren't there? Maybe you 'don't get it' after all. You're so wrapped up in your own perspective that nobody else could possibly have one. And if they do then they are wrong.
As an aside though. UKIP are not established in Scotland this is true but once upon a time neither was the SNP. In fact, in the mid fifties the largest party in a Scotland was the Tories. Whatever happened to them? I don't have a crystal ball chap. I don't claim to have the answers. Just an opinion. Just a bystander chewing the cud.
@56 Oh, I don't know. From your comment, we can see that education hasn't yet made it to Scotland. For instance, the use of “your” should actually be “you're”. That's an abbreviation for “you are”. It's not difficult for someone who doesn't keep their brain in a sporran and leave the sporran in a pony and trap. I've never heard of poitns. Is it similar to porridge oats? Strangely, I thought I had made some points. Perhaps I was too gentle. How about this? Salmond is a fat, fish-faced, corrupt, criminal thief. Anyone who believes ANYTHING he says or writes is a brain-dead imbecile. To be quite honest, I am so far beyond you that it may take you 20 years to catch up. For instance, I'm glad to see that you have “mechanisms for sealing with this”. Blu tack? Bostik? Silicone? Done any research? I gave you some clues. Too brain-dead? Don't want to see your raison d'etre destroyed? Sorry, that's “reason for existence”. Should have remembered your educational and intellectual level. Getting the picture? You're as thick as they come. Except for argies. Wait! Are you an argie infiltrator? And you reckon you had “respect” for the LibDems? Write this down. “Please. I need stronger medication”. Show it to a doctor or nurse. Take three doses at once!
Feb 07th, 2014 - 05:29 pm - Link - Report abuse 0TWIMC
Feb 07th, 2014 - 07:19 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Just out of interest [All]
Steuart or as some say, Stuart
Says,,,
Firstly the referendum is about independence from the UK not England,
May I ask this,
In 1707 when this agreement was signed,
Was it between [Scotland and England?]
Scotland and England and Wales,
Scotland and England Wales and Ireland
And just out of interest,
Did Scotland join the united kingdom,??????????????
Answers please.
Just a thought honestly,
And for mr steuart, it may help..
,
and yes we already know ??
@49 A_Voice,
Feb 07th, 2014 - 11:11 pm - Link - Report abuse 0criticise/criticize, my dictionary says that both are correct.
l did think that criticize was American, but criticise just didn't look right.
…as l said, Pedantic… lol!
And, MOI!…pure Think!
lf not him, perhaps you are his understudy?
65
Feb 07th, 2014 - 11:26 pm - Link - Report abuse 0To Johnny Foreigner criticise would look wrong....
Au contraire... Moi is pure French....
@66,
Feb 08th, 2014 - 05:56 am - Link - Report abuse 0Mais oui, m'sieur Voice.
So, l am Johnny Foreigner.
Go back a couple of generations & you could well be correct.!
Ask m Think, the next time you are sharing a whiskey or three.
l 'ave bared my soul to 'im.(well some of it, anyway).
#62 My apologies Furrs, the expression I have chosen is more a term of endearment (and means 'furry ears) rather than an insult (especially given your moniker).
Feb 08th, 2014 - 07:08 am - Link - Report abuse 0I can assure you that my position is based on my interpretation of what is unfolding in front of me in the independence debate. Given I have been able to somewhat contradict what you are saying, please do not accept this as condescention. But... I shall say the Tories were the biggest parliamentary party in Scotland in the 50's not necessarily the largest party. The SNP arrived in the 1930's. UKIP have so far failed to establish themselves in Scotland but could be port of call for disaffected tories and libdem supporters.
#63 HonkyConq, you do amuse but you do need the shit between your ears syringed again. Thank you for your typo alert. Your insult of the Scots generally does your nation or yourself no credit. you provide no evidence of your opinions of our First Minister. However, the contempt of our Prime Minister has shown to the flooding disaster in SW England shows the real contempt the South East Mafioso have for everything North of Watford and West of Heathrow.
#64 Briton
Steuart, correct spelling, will do.
1707, I assume you mean the union of parliaments between that of Scotland and the rest of the UK?
It could be argued that Scotland did not join the UK. It created the UK when James VI, King of Scotland was asked to become King of England creating a 'United Kingdom'. This 'wisest fool in christendom' also approved the union flag among other notable acheivements.. Hope that helps you?
We have given them a good king & they have ruined him… or something like that.
Feb 08th, 2014 - 09:49 am - Link - Report abuse 0Maybe the extra riches went to his head.?
68 Steuart (#)
Feb 08th, 2014 - 10:18 am - Link - Report abuse 0Feb 08th, 2014 - 07:08 am
No worries.
Your opinion contradicts my opinion perhaps but which one is correct.............?
And that is my point. We cannot deal in absolutes, so I try not to.
70
Feb 08th, 2014 - 12:13 pm - Link - Report abuse 0That was a neat trick....one minute you are Furry-Fat-Feck, the next, a War Monkey....
Who else are you...?
FFF and WM chap. Not a secret. Never was.
Feb 08th, 2014 - 12:26 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You?
Well it's news to me...the obvious question would be ...why....?
Feb 08th, 2014 - 12:36 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Me?....I'm just a Voice...
About a year or so ago some Malvy, I forget which one they're all the same to me, came on here calling Brits all names and sundry. Amongst which was 'War Monkey'. I liked it so much I created a profile called War Monkey'. He left off soon after.
Feb 08th, 2014 - 12:58 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Now the moniker I am signed in as depends on what device I am using. War Monkey is automatically signed in on my laptop whilst FFF is automatically logged in on my iPad and my wife's iMac.
...don't believe you....it's not possible to take the same name on this forum...“War Monkey”..as someone else. Ergo it must have been you all along....QED.
Feb 08th, 2014 - 04:54 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Whatever you say Jack.........
Feb 08th, 2014 - 05:29 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Sorry about that last post I misunderstood what you were saying....you were saying the guy mentioned the phrase War Monkey and you liked it...and adopted it..
Feb 08th, 2014 - 05:44 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I read the post too quickly and made a mistake...
68 Steuart
Feb 08th, 2014 - 07:13 pm - Link - Report abuse 0This is what is on line..
The 1706 negotiations
Act of Union 1707
http://www.parliament.uk/about/living-heritage/evolutionofparliament/legislativescrutiny/act-of-union-1707/
Negotiations between the English and Scottish commissioners
on 22 April 1706 when Cowper, the Lord Keeper of the Great Seal, presented the Scots with the proposal that:
the two kingdoms of England and Scotland be forever united into one kingdom by the name of Great Britain; that the United Kingdom of Great Britain be represented by one and the same parliament; and that the succession to the monarchy of Great Britain be vested in the House of Hanover.”
FOREVER,,,,..
Agreement in just three days
Within three days, both sides had secured what they most wanted: England had a guarantee that the Hanoverian royal dynasty would succeed Queen Anne to the Scottish crown; and the Scots had their long sought-after access to English colonial markets as the route to an improved economy
The 1706 negotiations
http://www.parliament.uk/about/living-heritage/evolutionofparliament/legislativescrutiny/act-of-union-1707/
Technically, perhaps, we all should have had the vote .
Just my humble opinion,
This is from the UK parliament web site,
Not … wikipedia encyclopedia
Briton
Feb 08th, 2014 - 07:44 pm - Link - Report abuse 0...and there you have hit the nail on the head...no self determination for the Scottish peoples...they didn't get to vote on a union with England...
and now they do....
well,
Feb 08th, 2014 - 08:00 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I will wait until sept,
and leave the rest to the experts,
in the meantime im off,
later guys..
77 A_Voice (#)
Feb 08th, 2014 - 09:06 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Feb 08th, 2014 - 05:44 pm
Fair play to you. No worries.
Why don´t you do it the Argie way: Invade them!
Feb 08th, 2014 - 09:20 pm - Link - Report abuse 0?
Feb 09th, 2014 - 06:46 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Commenting for this story is now closed.
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