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Mercosur interested in trade integration with members of the Pacific Alliance, says Brazil

Saturday, February 8th 2014 - 06:35 UTC
Full article 51 comments

Mercosur pretends to increase its trade integration with members from the Pacific Alliance, said Brazilian foreign minister Luiz Alberto Figuereido. The top official made the statement this week before the Brazilian Senate foreign affairs committee. Read full article

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  • Anglotino

    ”Mercosur has virtually no free trade agreements with other countries, while the Pacific alliance is open to the whole world”.

    And finally Mercosur starts to see the light.

    Feb 08th, 2014 - 08:15 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Stevie

    Comment removed by the editor.

    Feb 08th, 2014 - 08:21 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Anglotino

    Bahahahahahaha

    Those pesky EUians!

    Feb 08th, 2014 - 08:55 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Captain Poppy

    Who was that group of people that insisted the PA was nothing and will peter away? Seems to me that Mercosur is petering away. Mercosur should remain on the outside looking in and let their wounds fester.

    Feb 08th, 2014 - 12:42 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Tik Tok

    Hello we are Brazil and we want an agreement with you for our lot including this, this and this, oh and this, this, this and this, plus this, whoops forgot this and this, did I mention this and this...ad nauseum. Then we Argie lot want this, this and this etc etc etc
    Mercosul needs to agree to PA's rules or they can take a running jump.

    Feb 08th, 2014 - 01:23 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • yankeeboy

    Why would anyone sign a deal knowing the other party is a liar and thief? Knowing they won't abide by the terms of the agreement and in turn will use the same agreement as a bludgeon to force you to obey?
    It is astonishing that AlBA/MS think that they can still get away with such bad behaviour.
    Pay no attention to them and let them collapse. It won't be too long now.
    More and more I think Brazil will follow right behind them.

    Feb 08th, 2014 - 01:28 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Stevie

    Comment removed by the editor.

    Feb 08th, 2014 - 01:43 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Narine T. Nüster

    That's exactly what it sounded to me at #6.

    I thought he was at last displaying some strand of fugacious self-contemplation.

    Should have known better, a monkey with dress and lipstick will always end mooning you.

    Feb 08th, 2014 - 01:46 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • JoseAngeldeMonterrey

    There´s a reason why the Pacific Alliance is named after the Pacific Ocean: they aren´t interested on what happens in other latitudes, their interest is to compete and trade with Asia, not to become their raw materials and primary product suppliers as it is the sad case of Argentina, Brazil, Paraguay and Venezuela. Mexico competes vs China and other Asian economies by manufacturing domestic appliances, cars, autoparts, aircraft parts, electronic consumer products, cellulars, televisions, and the like, Chile, Colombia, Peru and Central American nations are also interested on competing vs Asia on manufacturing, textiles, etc., not becoming their mere raw material suppliers, there´s no future there.

    Feb 08th, 2014 - 01:50 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Narine T. Nüster

    Mexico has 50% poverty, far worse than Argentina. And you are next to the USA and have sent at least 10 million people there (otherwise your poverty rate would be over 60%).

    So I guess neither NAFTA nor the Pacific alliance have helped much.

    And oh btw Chile after 40 years of the same models still shows no signs of ceasing to be nothing but a raw material supplier.

    And with those two statements I have utterly shattered your worldview.

    With that I am not saying the Mercosur path is a better one, merely highlighting the high praises for the Pacific Alliance are noetic chimeras on the part of the purblind commentators of this forum.

    Feb 08th, 2014 - 02:00 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ChrisR

    @ Free energy Stevie

    Why do you keep posting “Comment removed by the editor.”?

    Is this an attempt to look intelligent?

    Ha, ha, ha.

    Feb 08th, 2014 - 02:58 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Stevie

    Chris
    I bet you they wished they were dealing with a “statement removed by the editor” instead...

    I guess US words describing the EU aren't within the tolerance of MP, so they shoot the messenger...

    ;)

    Feb 08th, 2014 - 03:14 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Troy Tempest

    Nostril Nutter

    “ we want full integration with the rest of the countries from the region, and other countries, such as the Europeans”, concluded Figuereido.”

    Well, that “shatters” you assertions that Mercosur and Argentina do not want or need the EU.

    BTW, please post links to your “shattering” revelations that 50% of Mexicans live in worse poverty than 27%, 11 million Argentinians (it would be more now), and links regarding PA manufacturing and trade.

    Feb 08th, 2014 - 05:06 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Anglotino

    The Pacific Alliance is only TWO years old.

    Mercosur has been around in one form or another for 30 years next year.

    While Mercosur is still squabbling over internal trade restrictions that are thrown up between members and is little more than a raw supplier of oil (Venezuela), soy (Argentina) and iron ore (Brazil); the Pacific Alliance has quickly moved on joint visas, shared embassies and economically integrating their economies through a shared bourse and cutting tariffs on 92% of trade.

    With Panama and Costa Rica finalising their accession, Guatemala has now begun the process of ensuring it too can join. This is complimented by the addition of 3 new observers at Cartagena; India, Singapore and Finland, joining the other 23 observers. These observers include 2 Mercosur members, 5 other Latin American states, 8 out of 10 of the largest economies in the world and 7 EU members.

    The Pacific Alliance does more in a year than Mercosur does in a decade and shows no sign of fatigue or a backlash by its citizens. It is bypassing the pomp and extraneous crap that befalls many Latin American multilateral institutions and just gets on with it.

    And finally Mercosur, instead of attacking and denigrating it, is finally starting to be pragmatic enough to realise that the Pacific Alliance is a success and not going away.

    Feb 08th, 2014 - 10:48 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • JoseAngeldeMonterrey

    Narine T. Nüster (#) Mexico has 50% of poverty, according to INEGI, but guess what? INEGI is an independent body and does not manipulate statistics about the country, the poverty criteria is measured against the world standards accepted in the US and Europe. In Argentina and Brazil, your poverty rates are way relaxed, in so much that in Brazil for example a person with no car and no bank account is still considered a middle-class. Mexico´s poor are middle-class in those countries. The US draws a lot of inmigration from all over the world and not necessarily poor people all the time, because of higher wages and better living standards, but immigration to the US from Mexico has come to a halt, according to US data.

    Feb 09th, 2014 - 12:05 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Anglotino

    Jose

    Narine has gone. Replaced by A_neuTroll_Observer.

    Same delusions.
    Different name.

    Feb 09th, 2014 - 12:51 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Elena

    I like this story, but I guess if they are serious about this, it will have to take some time for both groups. The Pacific Alliance is getting ready to stablish itself completely as a comercial bloc and only will accept Costa Rica and maybe Panama as members in the near future. Mercosur needs to get together in their actual and future agreements, so some time to sort things out for both the Pacific Alliance and Mercosur is desirable.

    I wonder if this means Mercosur will integrate iself into the Pacific Alliance or the Pacific Alliance and Mercosur will just make a FTA between each other, imo the second option would be better and faster considering the immediate objectives of both groups.

    @10 @15 “but immigration to the US from Mexico has come to a halt, according to US data” indeed, also in Mexico the principal growing group of foreing migrants come from the US and Canada, this is also because of tourism, comercial and familiar links imo.

    Feb 09th, 2014 - 03:44 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • A_neuTroll_Observer

    Argentina needs no one from Latin America.

    Feb 09th, 2014 - 05:27 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Troy Tempest

    18 Snotty Nostril

    “Argentina needs no one from Latin America.”

    You're right, Nostrils - stop posting now.

    We'll put up no argument.

    Feb 09th, 2014 - 05:34 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Anglotino

    “Argentina needs no one from Latin America.”

    And yet where is Argentina?

    Feb 09th, 2014 - 06:09 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ilsen

    NO! just leave Argentina to it! Alone! They know what is best for them, don't they?
    Obviously don't need Mercosur, (doesn't want them!), or the PA (nope, not welcome), the EU!! (won't touch them!), so. I guess that just leaves so-called CELAC (completely dis-united, the 'proper' countries want out of this political 'talking-shop'). So that just leaves ALBA...

    BAAAAHHHAAHAHA!

    Time for a News Report. (blocked in some countries! how's that for democratic socialism, you fools?) Anyway, from the real World...
    A Public Service Announcement * Feb 9, 2014
    --- Official Bolivarian ‘Wonderland’ Exchange Rate in Venezuela ---
    BCV 6.3Bsf / 1USD (SICAD 11.3Bsf /1 USD)
    ----Today’s Reality Cheque --- The ‘Lechuga Verde’ or ‘Blue Dollar’
    81.15 Bsf / 1 USD
    107.44 Bsf / 1 Euro
    See http://dolartoday.com/
    Brought to you by Ilsen Publications ©2014 (*because dolartoday.com website is blocked in Vnzla by the current ‘administration’/dictatorship and the Press are banned from reporting it)
    To show how different exchange rates impact normal consumers in Venezuela, Reuters calculated that a McDonald's Big Mac Combo would cost $2 at a black market exchange, $14 at the Sicad rate and $25 at the official exchange rate.
    (any comments about a BigMac Diet will be received with derision, as this is merely an Example Index for simplicity)

    Feb 09th, 2014 - 07:08 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • JoseAngeldeMonterrey

    17 Elena (#)
    Brazil´s only playing geopolitics, PA has repeatedly refused to sit down to hold negotiations with Mercosur and it will never happen. Why? because the moment PA accepts an agreement with Mercosur, it will also be accepting it with Venezuela and other economies that do not have free-trade agreements with Chile, Mexico or Peru.
    PA does not negotiate partnerships to other countries, in order to become a member you have to be a partner for every other partner, that is to say, each country has to negotiate each agreement. If Brazil, Argentina or Uruguay wishes to join, they will need to hold talks with each PA member separately, a free-trade agreement with Mexico, another with Chile, etc.

    It´s pure bs from the Brazil foreign ministry.

    Feb 09th, 2014 - 11:11 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Brasileiro

    A trade union which has no consumer market is illogical. Mexico is a large slum, Chile has no population, Colombia and Peru have primitive economies.
    FTA only to sell products is a joke. PA is a work of the United States to divide South America.
    Mexico does not exist, became a packaging of North-American industry that takes advantage of their slave labor.
    ..... and Brazil is one of the largest trading partners of Chile and Peru.

    http://www.portalbrasil.net/americas_chile.htm

    Feb 09th, 2014 - 11:53 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Captain Poppy

    Stop being a racist Brassie and accept the fact that not everyone in SA wants an incompetent communist government. Seems every country in LA that finds success on it's own is either a puppet of Europe or the USA. Guess what brassie........the common thread is far more transparent.

    how's the World Cup building going?

    Feb 09th, 2014 - 01:31 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • yankeeboy

    Brazilian Marxists like your brethren in Argentina and Venezuela will end up ruining your country.
    They will go back to the 80s policies that failed then and will fail now.
    Brazil is bigger and richer than the two other slum nations so the decay will take longer.
    But it will happen
    mark this post and refer back to it in a year or so.

    Feb 09th, 2014 - 01:39 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Brasileiro

    Prussia for you, Engliseé!

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A5EB6awrS1k&list=FLmXPTu1f8AdGlizWNiASx2A

    Feb 09th, 2014 - 02:02 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • JoseAngeldeMonterrey

    23 Brasileiro (#) Mexico´s Latinamerica´s largest investor, even in Brazil´s, Mexico produces more manufactured products than Brazil, Argentina, Uruguay, Paraguay and Venezuela together, and exports far more. PA´s market is far more sophisticated and globalized than the banana fre-trade agreement that Mercosur has become. Mexico and Chile are the only A investment grade economies in the region, the most stable and the most competitive. Brazil can´t compete with none, they have to close their borders to cars and anything, they economy is heavily subsidized and their poverty statistics inflated by doctored statistical figures, Sao Paulo and other cities are the real slum of Latin America, with more than 50,000 people assassinated in Sao Paulo every single year. The country can´t even build stadiums on time because of corruption and negligence. Racism is rampant, negroes are more than 80% of the population but in congress they have a .2% of representation. The most racist country on earth!

    Feb 09th, 2014 - 02:07 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Brasileiro

    Brazilian Population descendants:

    Italian: 40 millions
    Portuguese: 40 millions
    Germans: 20 millions
    Afro-Angola: 15 millions
    Afro-Guine: 3 millions
    Afro-South Africa and Namíbia: 2 millions
    Mestizos: 95 millions
    Japaneses: 5 millions

    This is Brasil!

    Feb 09th, 2014 - 02:21 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • JoseAngeldeMonterrey

    28 Brasileiro (#) yeah right!
    Black or Mulatto Population 49.6% (according to census), but everyone knows this is because there are many people of mixed race who are actually black but define themselves as something else, precisely because of rampant discrimination. In reality the number is as high as 75 or 80& of blacks.

    http://en.mercopress.com/2009/04/25/black-population-becomes-the-majority-in-brazil

    Feb 09th, 2014 - 03:15 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Brasileiro

    I'm here. I know you can not understand.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6hoyDQ3LeTU&list=FLmXPTu1f8AdGlizWNiASx2A

    Feb 09th, 2014 - 03:29 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Stevie

    Brasileiro
    Brasil has a beautiful Black population.
    Brasil has a beautiful White population.
    Brasil has a beautiful Mixed population.

    And the most beautiful part, is the social inclusion.

    Keep it up, brother. Let us never again be too few.

    Feb 09th, 2014 - 04:59 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Brasileiro

    Stevie, you are my example! Love Hetero for you! Frienship!

    Feb 09th, 2014 - 05:01 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Troy Tempest

    31 Stevie

    “Keep it up, brother. Let us never again be too few.”

    Yep, we are all “Chavs”

    Feb 09th, 2014 - 05:22 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Stevie

    Have a hug you too, Troy.

    We know you need it.

    ;)

    Feb 09th, 2014 - 05:27 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Elena

    @22 JoseAngeldeMonterrey
    “Brazil´s only playing geopolitics, PA has repeatedly refused to sit down to hold negotiations with Mercosur and it will never happen”

    Indeed Brazil is playing Geopolitics but I didn´t know PA already refused them, could you post a link of that? I would like to know for sure. Because from what I know the Pacific Alliance isn´t closed to the countries of the region as long as it´s respected the aggrenments already done between the members of the Pacific Alliance.

    “PA accepts an agreement with Mercosur, it will also be accepting it with Venezuela and other economies that do not have free-trade agreements with Chile, Mexico or Peru.”

    indeed, that´s why I asked if Brazil is talking about Mercosur integrating itself with the PA in which case every country there would need a FTA with every country of the Pacific Alliance, or if Mercosur just want´s a FTA with the Pacific Alliance, similar to the one they are talking about with the EU, I suspect it´s the second option as I don´t see Mercosur wish to be part of either the EU or the PA.

    “It´s pure bs from the Brazil foreign ministry” If he isn´t serious about this, it´s at least interesting this change of geopolitical pov given Brazil used to do what Brasileiro is doing now, demeritate or even insult the members of the Pacific Alliance. Also I believe Aecio Neves and some others members of Brazil bussines community have also talked about this.

    Feb 09th, 2014 - 08:48 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • JoseAngeldeMonterrey

    Elena, do you know of any PA body of negotiators visiting Brazil or any other nation in Mercosur? any foreign minister of the PA countries coming out in public in favor of talks about PA negotiation with Brazil or Mercosur? No.
    Mexico and the rest of the countries in PA are trying to build a free-trade zone, with visas for everyone and no import tariffs, and integrated financial markets and added-value supply chains, which can only happen in a free-trade environment. Precisely everything opposed to what Mercosur means. Venezuela, Brazil, Argentina, Uruguay, Paraguay, are not complementary economies do not represent the future of the world economy, Asia does, and it is with this vision that this alliance was born, to create competitive advantages and free import tariff zones that will make mexican or chilean products more competitive vs Chinese or Indonesian, in America or in Asia. Integrated supply-production chains are the future, that is why Japan, China, Taiwan, Singapur, South Corea and other asians in the region domine the electronic markets, because they develop the supply chains, North America has been developing very competitive supply chains with products made from Mexican, American and Canadian parts. I think PA intends on doing the same thing. Geopolitics and ideologies is something that does not suit well in this alliance.
    http://www.milenio.com/negocios/Garantiza-Alianza-Pacifico-encadenamiento-productivo_0_242375821.html

    Feb 09th, 2014 - 09:44 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Stevie

    Jose
    You assume the consumism continue...

    That's not viable.

    You better find a balance to assure you have what you need.
    A healthy own production included...

    Feb 09th, 2014 - 09:51 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Troy Tempest

    37 Stevie

    “You assume the consumism continue...
    That's not viable.
    You better find a balance to assure you have what you need.
    A healthy own production included... ”

    Sort of a self-defeating prophecy, from Stevie - “don't build a FTA zone with integrated economies that could lead to mutual prosperity - it might fail”

    Well, Stevie, if they don't attempt it - it sure won't happen!

    But then you have Venezuela, the successful economic model and ”trailblazer' for the Mercosur members, right ??

    Chucklehead !

    Feb 09th, 2014 - 11:25 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • JoseAngeldeMonterrey

    Stevie,
    Economies are connected from the inside out and viceversa, what happens outside kicks into the inside, similarly new developments in communities go out and transform the world.
    Germany, the second or third largest exporter in the world, Japan, another huge exporting economy, they all built their prosperity by connecting to the outside world too. You don´t simply build a country thinking solely of its internal market. That was exactly what communist countries did and that is why they failed.

    Feb 10th, 2014 - 01:08 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Anglotino

    Brasileiro

    If there is one theme that runs through nearly all your posts on this site, it is your disappointment with Brazil.

    You are so quick to claim an affinity and shared brotherhood with all inhabitants of South America until you find the need to denigrate their countries for not following a path you believe in.

    “Mexico is a large slum” and where are some of the world’s largest slums? Brazil!

    “Chile has no population” this is negative why? Countries with large populations are not powerful nor rich nor successful. Why just look at India and….. Brazil.

    “Colombia and Peru have primitive economies”. Compared to? Some Brazilian states? Perhaps they should be more like Venezuela who hardly manufactures anything and runs short of toilet paper.

    “Brazil is one of the largest trading partners of Chile and Peru”.

    Wrong!

    Chile’s larges trading partners are China and the United States which between them take 36% of exports and provide 40% of imports. It has FTAs with both those countries but not with Brazil.

    Peru also trades more with China and the US (45% of exports and 38% of imports). No Brazilian FTA either.

    Your disappointment that Brazil is not the leader of South America is palpable. You feel that Brazil should be accorded more respect and defence by other South American countries as befits (in your eyes) the natural regional leader. But Brazil fails to deliver. It has tied itself to Argentina and now Venezuela who both look inward. The Pacific Alliance is doing exactly what Brazil would like to do. Look outward. But they are also looking away from Brazilian leadership and charting a course that is cosmopolitan and international which doesn’t fit with your view that they should be subservient to Brazilian leadership on these matters.

    You complain about the US attempting to control countries and yet you want Brazil to do the exact same thing.

    Feb 10th, 2014 - 02:17 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Stevie

    No Jose
    Japan and Germany loans money, same type of economy as USA and UK...

    Feb 10th, 2014 - 03:25 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Elena

    @36 JoseAngeldeMonterrey: I don´t think Mercosur means to become a part of the Pacific Alliance, neither I think the PA is trying to make Mercosur a part of them either. But a reality is that both economic groups are from the same region and would help their countries to develop a positive relationship away from the cold war language used a lot of times: http://www.rotativo.com.mx/noticias/internacionales/229240-subrayan-que-alianza-del-pacifico-es-abierta-e-incluyente/


    For example; Colombia has had a lot of problems in relation to Venezuela but still keeps political and economic relations because both countries need it. The same with Paraguay and Mercosur, Peru and Chile, Argentina and Brasil, Brasil and Mexico, etc. Even EPN of Mexico will visit Ecuador in March.

    So the relationship is there, Is obvious the Pacific Alliance was done to have comercial links with Asia, but it doesn´t means it´s closed to the region, and all Presidents from the PA have said so numerous times:

    Feb 10th, 2014 - 04:14 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Stevie

    Thank you Elena.
    Of course Mercosur and the PA should work together, as they do and not only in trade. We have a lot to share with eachother.

    Feb 10th, 2014 - 05:12 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Troy Tempest

    43 Stevie
    “Of course Mercosur and the PA should work together,”

    Of course they should.

    On whose terms?

    Feb 10th, 2014 - 03:58 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Stevie

    Not on yours ;)

    Feb 10th, 2014 - 04:04 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Troy Tempest

    Nice try, Stevie.

    What do we have to do with it? Please tell.

    Feb 10th, 2014 - 07:49 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Stevie

    Nothing.

    That would be it.

    See it like this. You lot know what you lot need to know.
    Spread your idiocy all you want but don't expect answers to your questions.
    Don't be so nosey.

    Feb 10th, 2014 - 08:18 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Troy Tempest

    47 Secret Steve

    “don't be so nosey”

    What are you hiding Stevie?

    This seems to be international news, with success, national and regional prosperity, availability of commodities, not to mention “personal fortunes”, hanging in the balance.

    Brazil seems to want an agreement, Uruguay seems to want an agreement, yet for some reason, the foundering and flailing Mercosur can't come to terms with the successful and financially growing members of the PA.

    Why would that be?

    Venezuela is out of it anyway.

    What could be holding things back ???

    Feb 10th, 2014 - 09:03 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Stevie

    I'm hiding nothing. Nobody cares what you lot think, hence nobody asks what you think of the possible terms.
    You are not invited to the dinner, why do you care what's on the menu if not oit of nosiness?

    Venezuela was never in the discussions about the trade with EU. And they wont be until they've settled and sorted more important things that are, imagine, none of uour concern.

    Feb 10th, 2014 - 09:17 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Troy Tempest

    World Trade, Secret Stevie. At least for the PA.
    What would our/Asia's corporations, our/ Asia's investors, think about putting money, technical knowledge, reciprocal arrangements into the PA, when some of the new members don't want to agree to the existing tariff schedules or obligations ??

    The PA is successful. It's doesn't need to be hobbled by any “Special Needs” members that have different rules.

    Brazil and Uruguay know that.
    What do you think they will do, Stevie?

    Wasn't it “Anarchist Stevie” saying the PA mustn't link their economies in a cooperative plan, as it could fail??

    Feb 10th, 2014 - 09:54 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Stevie

    The PA are free to do as they please, we still need more integration with that bloc. Doesn't mean we gave to copy them, or them us.
    It merely means our people should grow a common conscience. Trade will follow, don't you worry about that. Or worry.
    It matters little.

    I think Uruguay and Brasil will do what they decide to do. Don't be sad should they not offer any explainations.

    Feb 10th, 2014 - 10:03 pm - Link - Report abuse 0

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