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Scotland independence referendum: BBC poll suggests economy, most important issue for voters

Monday, February 10th 2014 - 04:00 UTC
Full article 83 comments

The economy is the issue that matters most to voters taking part in the independence referendum, a poll carried out for the BBC has suggested. The results of the poll feature in a documentary, Scotland's Top Ten Battlegrounds, which is being shown on Tuesday. Read full article

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  • Be serious

    England will have to impose border controls. It's up to Scotland if they set up their own controls or not. Personally I think it would be irresponsible if they didn't.

    Feb 10th, 2014 - 04:38 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Marcos Alejandro

    Do not leave us
    Love

    David Cameron

    Feb 10th, 2014 - 04:53 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • travellingscotsman

    Marcos, at least the people of Scotland have been given the democratic choice. Where is the democracy in the way that Argentina is treating the people of the Falkland islands?

    Feb 10th, 2014 - 05:12 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Anglotino

    Marcos

    Can you even read English?

    Because you seem incapable of anything other than poorly attempted glib. Your comments remind me of the Argentinean governments replies to most problems.

    Feb 10th, 2014 - 06:10 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Redrow

    Jeez, that bloke from Gregory's Girl looks old!

    Re: “Economy is top priority for Scottish voters”
    No says “Yes! That's good news for us”.
    “No it isn't” says Yes. “Yes it is” says No.

    Feb 10th, 2014 - 06:49 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Britworker

    Once again, complete arrogance from the Scottish Nationalists, firstly telling us the UK has to share a currency with them and secondly stating that we won't have a border.
    The harsh realities of independence are going to hit Scotland hard over the next few months, this whole referendum has been built on lies and supposition by Salmond and his idiot nationalists. The cold truth is that Scotland will be completely on it's own and will have to build a country from scratch, that will include economic institutions separate from London, currency, international trade and relations, basically everything. Any nationalist that doubts this is a liar or deluded.

    Feb 10th, 2014 - 09:31 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Frankdrebin

    I’m sick of hearing about Scotland, sick of reading articles and seeing Salmond on the news dictating what his new and free Scotland WILL be keeping if they decide to go independent. They want this and that! lol its an utter joke and you get the impression they haven’t thought it through on any level. As an Englishman living on Tyneside I can see why they want to be independent, not wanting to be run by the Tory/Yellow Tory government in London but if they go independent they should go all the way. I will also be surprised if some sort of boarder isn’t built, anyone seen the film Doomsday? Hock Aye! – that will be Scotland in 25 years if they get a yes vote.

    Feb 10th, 2014 - 10:16 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ChrisR

    ”Actually a former Secretary of Defense told me that is more than likely to actually happen because the rest of the UK simply cannot be open to any sort of vulnerabilities … if there are huge intelligence gaps between Scotland and England.“

    The terrorists are already in “England”. Bradford, Stoke on Trent, Luton, etc. Start with eliminating them first, they are the real threat.

    Scottish people have been promised a fair referendum, I just hope the politicians of all parties keep their mouths shut, but that is too much to hope for.

    Feb 10th, 2014 - 10:17 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Idlehands

    There seems to be a lack of understanding about what independence means.

    Salmond will utter any bare faced lie to convince Scots to vote for independence. He's not so much interested in what's best for the average Scot. He's simply a nationalist that wants to go down in Scottish folklore alongside Wallace and Bruce.

    I think there's a possibility of Scots voting yes simply because the English aren't going to beg them to stay. If the mud slinging gets too bad then they might cut off their nose to spite their face.

    There's no way the UK will agree to currency sharing similar to the EU. The only way it would happen is if London retained control of Scottish economic policy - and what sort of independence is that?

    Feb 10th, 2014 - 10:55 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Mendocino

    It's either independence or not. Sharing currency? consulting the Bank of England on interest rates? please. Sounds like they want to test the water to see if they like the heat first...guess what? you can't have it all your own way. I would be sorry to see them go but if they did go I want to know if they intend to pay England back for bailing them out all those years ago....with interest!

    Also where would they fit in with their obligations to defending the remaining overseas territory's of the UK. Since it was Scotland who chose to join with England to form the UK then will they defend the Falklands from a clearly aggressive Argentina in the event of another unprovoked attack. Especially given the high percentage of Scottish descendants their?

    Feb 10th, 2014 - 12:42 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ross

    I do not see an independent Scotland in the near future so all debate is purposeless.

    Feb 10th, 2014 - 12:45 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Conqueror

    @6, 7, 9. You are quite correct, as far as you go. But there ARE other features. An independent Scotland will NOT be an EU member for years, if ever. Therefore, there will not only be border control between Scotland and England, Scotland will have to be excluded from the CTA and there will almost certainly have to be visas, health insurance and evidence of available funds. There can be no “free movement” or “free trade”. It's also possible that roads and railways will have to be blocked, leaving only one crossing point. Currency? Of course Scotland can use the pound. Similarly, Panama uses the U.S. dollar. Is the U.S. Federal Reserve Panama's “lender of last resort”? No. And the Bank of England won't be Scotland's “lender of last resort”. There will have to be air, land and sea patrols. “Dual nationality” depends on both nations agreeing that an individual should have “their” nationality. Then there's some real fun ones. Salmond claims that Scotland will be a “successor state” to the UK. Example: How many “successor states” were there on the break-up of the Soviet Union? Answer: One. The biggest. Russia. Scotland is entitled to 9% of UK assets. How so? Colonies can have a “right” to assets. Countries in a “union” don't have. They'll be getting the land. What else does Salmond expect? Scots are convinced that they pay more in taxes. That may be true for the last 60 years. What about the previous 240 years? Has Scotland given any indication of when it is proposing to repay the £2 quadrillion it owes England? That's Scotland's national debt plus 5% compound interest for 300 years. There will be the knock-on effects. Sharp rise in reports to the police about illegal immigrants. Necessity to construct 100-foot high viewing platforms at the border so that the English can see the “poor people”. The re-emergence of the “Painted People”. Cheaper than clothes. “Vandalism” on signposts so that so-called “Travellers” cross the border. And can't get back!

    Feb 10th, 2014 - 12:46 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • RICO

    #10 given that proportionally there are a lot more people of Scots descent than English descent on the Islands and given that The SNP, Scotland's largest party is so pro self determination you would expect Scotland to back human rights for the Falkland and oppose Argentine colonialist ambitions. However it seems to be going down the route of limiting its Navy to coastal patrols and making proportionally large cuts in the defence budget. Also the loss of economies of scale will put up the cost per person and cost per asset of their armed forces leaving to cuts in effectiveness even if they maintain spending at current levels. They are kind of relying on the rest of UK to defend and bail them out if anything goes wrong. As a result how much use Scottish forces will be for anything other than the annual tattoo is open to question.

    Feb 10th, 2014 - 01:15 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • A_Voice

    13
    That's the whole point...why bother spending money on defence when you know with absolute certainty that your neighbour will do it for you...
    English domination of the British Isles has always been about security...against the Spanish...French....Russians etc....
    No way they are ever going to leave the British Isles undefended....by air or sea,,,

    Feb 10th, 2014 - 02:28 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • paulcedron

    “BBC poll suggests economy, most important issue for voters”

    “For example, we could choose to reverse the UK government's tax cut for the very wealthiest in society and instead restore the higher level of tax allowance for our pensioners. Being independent means the revenue from our vast offshore renewable energy will come to Scotland, allowing us to benefit communities across the country. We can work more effectively to attract companies to Scotland, and help businesses already here grow, allowing us to create more jobs.”

    “And, while the UK government plans to spend £100 billion on new nuclear weapons in the years ahead, we can choose to use our £8 billion share of this money more wisely.”

    Feb 10th, 2014 - 03:16 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Troy Tempest

    14 A Void

    “That's the whole point...why bother spending money on defence when you know with absolute certainty that your neighbour will do it for you...”

    6 Britworker
    “The cold truth is that Scotland will be completely on it's own and will have to build a country from scratch, that will include economic institutions separate from London, currency, international trade and relations, basically everything.”

    “Any nationalist that doubts this is a liar or deluded.”

    'nuf said

    Feb 10th, 2014 - 03:26 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • paulcedron

    “Scotland has been a constituent part of the EU since the accession of the UK in 1973 and over the intervening 40 years its economy and society has become an integral and fully integrated jurisdiction within the EU single market.”

    “This will continue to be the case following an affirmative result in the 2014 referendum.
    The Scottish Government's intention is that negotiations leading to Scotland's independent membership of the EU will begin immediately following the 2014 referendum and be concluded prior to the point of independence. ”

    “Accordingly, these negotiations will take place during the period in which Scotland remains part of the UK and, as such, will be conducted ”from within“ the EU.”

    Feb 10th, 2014 - 03:38 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • A_Voice

    16
    Herein lies the problem....
    An English Wannabe is not capable of understanding the English psyche....
    You are easily spotted and exposed for what you are.....
    I know you are desperate to be part of that club....but your name's not down...so you're not coming in....
    Be content to be a Canadian.....the Scotland debate has nothing to do with you....
    ...but you are welcome to comment on something applicable to the article.....instead of Trolling people that state an obvious and valid point....

    Feb 10th, 2014 - 03:55 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Britworker

    @17
    Laughable, straight out of Salmonds manifesto pledge. Please show me where the rest of the EU have signed off on that?

    Feb 10th, 2014 - 03:55 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Troy Tempest

    18 A_voice

    1) “The problem is” it is not up to you who may comment or who is “qualified” to comment.

    2) You are not Scottish - you have never ever claimed to be.
    To do not even claim to be a British Subject.

    You have never said you actually live in Scotland, except for the purpose of trolling. Dunoon anyone?

    Therefore,
    How much validity does YOUR 'opinion' hold?

    Your past Trolling shows you to be “anti-English” at least, and a general sh!t-disturber.

    For reasons discussed before, your “opinions” are irrelevant, as nobody knows what stake you have in the welfare of Scotland, or the UK.

    Feb 10th, 2014 - 05:06 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • knarfw

    It's a bit of a non-story in England, most people I know couldn't care less what the Scottish do. The biggest concern is the level of import tax that will be imposed on Irn Bru and Snowballs.

    Feb 10th, 2014 - 05:11 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • A_Voice

    ...and Tunnock's Caramel Wafers....

    Feb 10th, 2014 - 05:27 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • toooldtodieyoung

    Speaking for myself, I hope that the “YES” vote doesn't happen.

    It would be a pity if Scotland went it alone and, in my opinion, not a very wise move from our Scottish brothers and sisters.

    But then again, if they really, really want to be independent and they really, really want to do it for themselves, then we should not stand in their way.

    I just hope that they have thought it all through and know what they are doing..........

    Feb 10th, 2014 - 05:35 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • A_Voice

    20
    WTF is a sh!t-disturber...?
    Is it a Canadian gay term...?
    Your foreign non-Britishness shining through....

    Feb 10th, 2014 - 05:46 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • rupertbrooks0

    5 Redrow

    “Jeez, that bloke from Gregory's Girl looks old!”

    Strange, the very same thought crossed my mind. Then I remembered, I saw the film at Brixton Ritzywhen it first came out, just before I went up to University. That was 1981, 32 years ago.

    Still your right of course, he does look old. Lucky me that time has treated so much better.

    Feb 10th, 2014 - 05:56 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Conqueror

    @13 How would an independent Scotland manage more than coastal patrols? Long-range rowboats? Possibly called “galleys” or “longships”. But a viking longship only travelled at around 7 knots. Bearing in mind that galleys and longships used to “beach” every night, the Falklands would be around 90 days away.
    @14 The British government has already made it clear that the UK will NOT be defending an independent Scotland. 250 miles lopped off at a stroke. Of course, the Royal Navy will still have to go around. No problem for the RAF. I suppose the UK might be prepared to do something. Provided Scotland pays. Up front. And no UK lives are put at risk. An attack from the north? Until the aggressor reaches UK territory, the UK will be neutral. None of our business.
    @15 Independent Scotland is welcome to do what it likes with its gas and oil reserves. Except where the gas and oil fields are the subject of multilateral treaties. In which case, Scotland will have to wait until the existing signatories agree to let Scotland in. If ever.
    Wonder where that £8 billion is coming from? Scotland has no right to any UK assets except for the Scottish land.
    @17 Scotland has NOT been a constituent part of the EU. It has been a constituent part of the UK. Then it secedes. It's OUT. No longer part of the UK, no longer part of the EU. Scottish accession to the EU will require the agreement of all existing members. France, Spain and UK vote against. For 10 years. Or longer. Turkey has been trying to get in since 1987. 26 years! And Turkey doesn't owe England £2 quadrillion!

    Feb 10th, 2014 - 07:28 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Troy Tempest

    24 AvoiceofThink

    “WTF is a sh!t-disturber...?
    Is it a Canadian gay term...?
    Your foreign non-Britishness shining through....”

    “Sh!t-disturber”
    definition - “A_Voice”, a fictional contrarian sock-puppet of “Think”

    “gay expression”

    Congrats, not only are you a known racist, but you're revealed as a “queer-hating” homophobe, as well.

    Funny, many of the Argentine Trolls use sexual orientation as a way to insult as well.

    Feb 10th, 2014 - 07:35 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • paulcedron

    27.
    don't be such a drama queen, trolazo.
    and you cannot talk about racism after all the sh+t you are always throwing against the latin merican people, especially argentinians
    suddenly you become hypersensitive...weird.

    Feb 10th, 2014 - 07:43 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • A_Voice

    27
    Oh I'm sorry ..you big girls blouse....for not being familiar with a Canadian term...you can't blame me for confusing it with the “British” term Sh!t-stabber....
    If you were indeed British and familiar with British terms you would have recognised my confusion.
    Now perhaps if you had used the term Sh!t-stirrer....I may have understood....
    28
    I think he is so sensitive to the term Gay for obvious reasons....

    Feb 10th, 2014 - 07:51 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Troy Tempest

    28,29

    A fine pair of Trolls you are.

    Feb 10th, 2014 - 07:54 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • A_Voice

    30
    I have my moments...especially when I'm having a serious debate on the other thread....
    This is my light relief...it's fairly obvious that you are not in my league when I'm in Troll mode....
    BTW what are you saying @27 by the term “Queer-Hating”...that's a bit derogatory to the Gay community, I would have thought...what are you implying.. that they are queer folk...I'm not following you. Is it a term you use often..?
    I personally wouldn't think to use such an insult...
    You really are a bad boy.....

    Feb 10th, 2014 - 08:55 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Clyde15

    #12
    I can almost see you slavering from here . Another load of people to HATE.
    Boy, life is good. Then England can dump the hated EU with all those robbing foreigners stealing England's wealth.. We will be free to take our country forward to new military conquests and wealth. With Scotland now a pariah state the USA, Europe, China, India and Commonwealth will say - well done, it was England we loved, welcome, what can we give you ? No, wait a minute, you don't like any of them either. Nothing for it then, you will just have to become chums with Argentina.
    How can YOU stop or prevent Scotland's application to joint the EU ?
    You want out in the 2015 referendum so you will not have a vote.

    #13
    RICO.
    Maybe, just maybe, we are fed up of getting involved in wars that don't concern us. Conqueror will take up the slack -one man army that he is !!
    Why would Scotland need offensive forces.? Who would attack us ? we have nothing of value as the great panjandrum (synonymous for racist xenophobic idiot ) continually says. In our long history, the only country that has consistently attacked us has been England.
    The Irish Republic has minimal forces. Has this hindered them in the world. NO. The Irish are liked.

    #14
    I see that you are a brilliant strategist as well. Show me where the UK govt. has actually said this. If that is the case, then your Nuclear subs and weapons will have to leave on the first day of an independent Scotland. We will charge you only £2 quadrillion in arrears of rent for destroying huge tracts of our countryside This should cover the charge of restoring the land to its previous pristine position. There will also be be docking and handling charges applicable for your ships sent to remove said objects. No land travel for military purposes will be permitted between our countries.
    I also presume that ALL native Scots will be dismissed from the U K armed forces.
    So you will face a shortage of skilled personnel. Never mind.

    Feb 10th, 2014 - 09:14 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Anglotino

    Still boring A_Voice

    Queer is not an insult. Wow how out of touch are you? It is an out and proud term used by the gay community. For God sake don't tell Queer FM or better yet mention the TV series Queer as Folk.

    “I personally wouldn't think to use such an insult...”

    And yet here you are in post 29 reply to Paulcedron “I think he is so sensitive to the term Gay for obvious reasons....”

    What are the obvious reasons Still boring A_Voice? Why would anyone be “sensitive to the term Gay”? Only if you think GAY is an insult would you think that people are sensitive to it.

    You are the most pedantic person on this site. You spend hours disecting the meaning and nuance of a single word and who and where it used and then you come out with this:

    “you can't blame me for confusing it with the “British” term Sh!t-stabber....”

    Yes we can!

    Instead of asking the meaning, you jumped straight to gay: “WTF is a sh!t-disturber...? Is it a Canadian gay term...?”

    Why?

    What does sh!t have to do with gay?

    That doesn't sound like the pedantic Still boring A_Voice who considers himself in his own league in troll mode.

    Hmm which other sh!t terms make you jump straight to gay?

    In the sh!t
    Cracking the sh!ts
    Sh!t scared
    It's the sh!t
    Dumb sh!t
    It sh!ts me!
    Are you sh!tting me?
    My sh!t
    Get you sh!t together
    Up sh!t creek - is that a gay creek perhaps?

    But you definitely know this one:
    Sh!t stirrer

    “you big girls blouse” Indeed, because denigrating someone using feminity is so much better than digging yourself deeper in the sh!t.

    Not up to your usual anal standards Still boring A_Voice.... oh btw that anal has nothing to do with gay.... just in case you get confused again... seems common for you at the moment.

    Feb 10th, 2014 - 09:36 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • paulcedron

    33
    and you talk about being boring?
    didn't they teach you to be more succinct?

    Feb 10th, 2014 - 10:00 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Anglotino

    paulcedron

    Then don't read it! It wasn't aimed at you.

    However I have commented twice with a total of 1,550 characters and it has taken you 5 comments to clock up 1,426 characters.

    Who isn't succinct?

    Feb 10th, 2014 - 11:45 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • A_Voice

    33
    .....there you go Skip....thanks for proving my point...
    Apparently the only people that are sensitive and make a big issues about “Gay” comments are.....Gays....
    :,,,Up sh!t creek - is that a gay creek perhaps?”....never thought about that one..but a creek being a channel...a shit channel....Mmmm....How queer is that..?...Er...I meant strange....
    BTW
    A big Girls blouse...definition.....A male displaying percieved feminine characteristics through actions which cause his peers to think less of him.
    ....I thought that was pretty apt for Troll Tempest....

    Feb 10th, 2014 - 11:47 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • paulcedron

    35
    anglolatino
    you said you study architecture.
    do you know mies van der rohe´s phrase “less is more”?
    next time try to apply it to your posts.

    Feb 11th, 2014 - 12:51 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Anglotino

    @Still boring A_Voice

    “thanks for proving my point..”
    No thanks needed. You're welcome!

    @paulcedron

    “you said you study architecture”
    Did I? When?

    “do you know mies van der rohe´s phrase “less is more”?”
    An apt maxim, especially when applied to architecture. However, as you have amply proven, it doesn't work as well when applied to intelligence.

    “next time try to apply it to your posts”
    Oh you rouge.... haha ok! But only if you promise to continue applying it to your intelligence.

    Feb 11th, 2014 - 01:58 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • paulcedron

    38
    “Did I? When?”
    you don't even remember your own lies.
    and you talk about intelligence, you imbecile?

    Feb 11th, 2014 - 03:02 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Troy Tempest

    Gosh Anglotino,

    A_“void” (how fitting) really warmed to his subjects, sh!t and homosexuality - he's quite fascinated by them, it seems.

    Just an ordinary Armchair Bigot, I guess, not to mention his boring “look look look how clever I am” stream of consciousness.

    And as to the “very important thread I was working on”?
    Puh-leeez, brow-beating Terrence Hill by splitting hairs over a decision already interpreted by experts in International Law?
    LOL, the conceit !

    Feb 11th, 2014 - 03:28 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Mendocino

    @23 me too. I have in-laws just out side Glasgow. half seem to want it half don't. The half that do I still have my doubts about. They bring up common problems that we have all over the country and then try to persuade me it's fault of the English! The truth is we are closer now than we have been in the past so it seems a bit strange to me. The is strength in unity which we have proven time and time again. A small Island nation should never have dominated the world for so long but together we did. This seems like a huge step backward for Scotland.

    Feb 11th, 2014 - 04:45 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Troy Tempest

    31 A_void

    “I have my moments...especially when I'm having a serious debate on the other thread.... ”

    Ha !! That's a good one.

    “ ...serious debate... ”
    There was no “debate” - Terence Hill handed your ass to you !!
    You didn't even land a punch. He just rolled right over you, arrogant fool.

    “Show me those links, grrr... I'll tear 'em apart!!”

    LOL,
    I know I shouldn't laugh at the disabled, but you embarrassed yourself big time !!

    Feb 11th, 2014 - 05:20 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Anglotino

    @40 Troy

    Still boring A_Voice loves to bait and argue. But even those skills have slipped recently. Consistency is the name of game on here and he was consistent right up until Christmas when there seems to have been a major personality change come over him, Stevie and Think.

    Where was this “serious debate”?

    @paulcedeon

    “you don't even remember your own lies.
    and you talk about intelligence, you imbecile?”

    Do you feel better now having called me a name? Doubtful.

    What lie? When did I lie? You're at least practising your maxim of 'less is more'.

    So when did I lie? And about what?

    Feb 11th, 2014 - 07:46 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • A_Voice

    43
    Forget what you say now...caught out in a lie or just playing dumb...?

    ” any delusions that my enrolment (or is that enrolment) at university (or is that college or even varsity) will change my spelling as I am studying architecture. ”
    http://en.mercopress.com/2013/12/04/looting-spreads-in-argentina-s-third-largest-city-as-police-go-on-strike#comment291953

    ...from one of your long, boring. anal posts.....PC is right you are consistent....long boring rants....in your case it's not less is more....It's Shut the Fcuk up!!!!

    You are consistent alrighty....consistently dumb.....

    Feb 11th, 2014 - 08:37 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Troy Tempest

    Anglotino,

    I think these Trolls have all but given up. Stevie doesn't say two insults to me these days, and I haven't heard a good Capitalist denouncement from him in weeks.

    ThinkVoice hasn't fabricated a good alternate reality in ages! Slacking, slacking, I say!!

    Here's A_Voice of Think, at his finest;

    Start around #158

    http://en.mercopress.com/2014/02/05/argentina-grateful-to-grenada-for-malvinas-claim-support-promises-cooperation?utm_source=email&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=aviso_comentarios#comments

    Voicy thinks he can re-interpret what 2 experts and the former head of the ICJ have to say about Sovereignty.
    I can't believe how conceited and arrogant he is.
    In earlier posts on the thread, he demands links so that he can interpret their legal meaning.
    Our boy was quite full of himself and riding high, but he hadn't a hope - “Terence Hill” put him meekly in his place after some initial bluster and goading on the part of AV.

    If he even has a Missus, she'll feel the back of his hand, tonight. Though I suspect he'll need to settle for kicking the dog.

    As to Paul,
    Hopefully he'll feel he is doing his bit re. “Less is More”, when we downgrade from “witty” to his rightful, “half-wit”.

    Feb 11th, 2014 - 08:41 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Idlehands

    Wasn't this thread about Scotland?

    I think Salmond will probably lose the vote - what is he going to do then? Would his position as Scottish leader become untenable?

    Feb 11th, 2014 - 10:07 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Clyde15

    #46
    Probably not. The whole of the SNP are behind him, so, in theory, they should call for another election for the Scottish Parliament.

    Feb 11th, 2014 - 10:13 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Anglotino

    @45 Troy

    I read and was mightily impressed by Terence.

    @44 Still boring A_Voice

    I am still waiting for someone to show me where I lied.

    Now, this won't be a short post. Fair warning.

    Mind you, it is very confusing when you reply for paulcedeon.

    Paul: “you said you study architecture”
    Me: “Did I? When?”
    Paul: “you don't even remember your own lies”
    Me: “What lie? When did I lie?”
    You: “Forget what you say now...caught out in a lie...”

    WHERE is the lie?

    Did I deny I study? No
    Did I deny I said such a thing? No

    What I was asking PAUL and not YOU, was where I said this. Because I haven't said that to paulcedeon since he appeared on this site. Now Paul doesn't seem the sort that has the self-control to spend time on this site just reading without making inane comments. So he hasn't been hanging around before commenting.

    And that is why I asked PAUL how he knew that.

    How did he know unless paulcedron is not his only name on here or his first time posting.

    See the old Still boring A_Voice, the pedantic one that would argue as nauseam about inconsistencies like this, suddenly ignores them.

    And then instead replies for him.

    So no I did not lie. As both YOU and PAUL have claimed. Just asked a question.

    I will accept your apology. Indeed if you are man enough.

    For the record (in case you regain your pedantic nature) I am studying a Bachelor of Environments at the University if Melbourne. Architecture is just one of the 11 majors I can choose from. Though chosen, I am now leaning towards Urban Design. I have this semester to decide.

    I've never lied on this site and therefore it is impossible for me to be caught in a lie.

    Try to remember that.

    Feb 11th, 2014 - 11:34 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • A_Voice

    45
    I didn't realise I had a fan club...you are obsessed with me. Wow!.. you even report my time on other threads.....
    It's a little bit creepy..I always said you were creepy....
    You still have yet to comment on the article...
    Do you dream of me....would you like a pin-up...?

    Feb 11th, 2014 - 11:44 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • paulcedron

    anglotino.
    “And that is why I asked PAUL how he knew that. ”

    because you posted you were studying architecture (2nd year or so) and you wanted to practice in south america.
    i think i answered that first you have to revalidate your title, what means you have to know the local legislation, building codes, etc, and speak spanish or portuguese fluently.
    memory is not your best feature, is it?

    “How did he know unless paulcedron is not his only name on here or his first time posting. ”
    yes, i have different names, personalities, etc

    Feb 11th, 2014 - 12:50 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • lsolde

    @49 A_Voice,
    No pin-ups for anyone please, Voicey(unless you're really, really, really handsome!).
    We don't want to gross out the general public.
    Or terrify the dogs.

    Feb 11th, 2014 - 01:07 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • A_Voice

    48
    Sniff sniff phew.... do I smell BS....
    Paul: “you said you study architecture”
    Me: “Did I? When?”
    Looks to me like you had forgotten one of your little fabrications and Paul quite rightly followed the logical conclusion that it must have been a lie that you couldn't remember....
    To be a good liar you need a good memory.....
    Now, if you had never said you were studying architecture that would be fine...
    A bit like .....“Voice I thought you said you were Scottish”
    .....”Did I? When?
    As is often the case, to which I would be correct in my reply....
    Why would you wriggle and attempt to justify your memory lapse with ridiculous assumptions that Paul replies to every post he reads.....Do you...? Does anyone..?
    For me, he caught you out in a lie...live with it.....
    51
    What can I say...beauty is in the eye of the beholder.....got a great body though...tall, balanced, intimidating...;-))))...how about you...?

    Feb 11th, 2014 - 02:50 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Troy Tempest

    52 A-voice

    ...fresh from his spectacular humiliation at the hands of Terrnce Hill, “A-voice” is now trolling on the coattails of Paul pseudo Cedron.

    Oh, how the smug have fallen...

    Feb 11th, 2014 - 03:35 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • A_Voice

    53
    ...you might want to keep up to date on that one.....
    ...my reply might be a little difficult to refute..unless you feel confident to tackle it..;-))

    Feb 11th, 2014 - 03:48 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Troy Tempest

    54
    “53
    ...you might want to keep up to date on that one.....”

    Juppp, trounced again, I see.

    Feb 11th, 2014 - 04:18 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • A_Voice

    55
    Again keep up to date....it appears that Terry is doing an Isolde now.....They are OUR Islands and not YOUR Islands....;-))))

    Feb 11th, 2014 - 04:25 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Conqueror

    @32 “HATE”. I'm somewhat ambivalent. You might want to try reigning in your bile. Or have you been down the pub all day? Over time, I have tried to point out the pratfalls for Scots. So part of me feels PITY for the clowns that can't be bothered to do some research and are blindly following His Majesty King Alex, Saviour of the Scottish Nation! On the other side, I feel INDIGNATION that a country that has spent most of its existence STEALING from England not only proposes to try to STEAL more as it severs its links, but also wants to maintain those links that suit it so that it can carry on STEALING. I'm also committed to putting MY country FIRST! To respond to two of your particular points, let me point out that the UK is in no position to stop or prevent Scotland's application. On the other hand, the UK is in a perfect position to make sure that application doesn't succeed. Admission of a new member has to be by unanimous vote. The UK can block Scotland's application for as long as the UK remains a member. And, if the UK leaves and Scotland joins, Scots can still be excluded from the UK. I think you'll find that's WIN-WIN for us. What's this 2015 referendum? In 2015, there will be a General Election. An event that Scots may be barred from if they have voted YES to independence in 2014. No point in letting YOU vote in OUR elections if you're leaving. You may be assured that the people of England are quite happy to leave you to stew in your battered juices. But what I notice most is this. BLUSTER! And, if you wish to push, consider what you are going to do against the nation with the largest and most capable military forces in the British Isles. Or is it all just coming home to you?

    Feb 11th, 2014 - 05:07 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • knarfw

    Mad as a box of frogs.

    Feb 11th, 2014 - 06:23 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Be serious

    I would be quite happy for Scotland to take over the UK's EU membership if that's what it wants so the rest of the UK can leave. I would prefer the Union to stay but its not right to stand in the way of self determination of any community. If Eire can make it as an independent nation am sure that Scotland can as well. Who knows but in the future these two nations may outgrow their religious differences and unite thus solving the Northern Ireland issue once and for all.

    Feb 11th, 2014 - 07:50 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • lsolde

    @57 Conq,
    Conqueror, please.
    We don't need any more enemies, stop antagonising our neighbours.
    @52 A_Voice,
    Don't know, you'll have to ask Mr ?
    @59 Be Serious,
    That would be an interesting combination.
    A union of Scotland & lreland.

    Feb 11th, 2014 - 09:41 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • redp0ll

    How's your Gaelic Clyde? You are going to need it when it becomes your national language methinks
    Alba go bragh

    Feb 11th, 2014 - 10:17 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ChrisR

    @ 56 A_Voice
    “They are OUR Islands and not YOUR Islands”

    Even if that were the case they would still not be YOUR islands.

    I cannot imagine anyone on here believes you are a Brit. Yes, you MAY have a house in Scotland, it doesn’t make you British or Scottish and you MAY have a house in America, that doesn’t make you American.

    In fact, do YOU know what nationality you are; think about the meaning of that question.

    Feb 12th, 2014 - 10:49 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Clyde15

    #57
    More non - sensical ravings from fantasy island. You don't even have the wit to see I was taking the piss in reply to your hate mail.

    “But what I notice most is this. BLUSTER! And, if you wish to push, consider what you are going to do against the nation with the largest and most capable military forces in the British Isles..”...

    What “English” armed forces are these ?. So the Welsh and N.Irish would join in to attack Scotland on your orders. How many nukes would you use against us, that seems to be your solution to all differences of opinion. Thank God there are very few nutters like you in England. You think they were would be no come back from the rest of the world ? Canada, Australia, S.Africa and New Zealand would say “well done”. The USA would be delighted.
    The UN would have a field day...colonialist England showing her true colours again. The pound Sterling would collapse. Never mind it would give you a good glow...there hearty choruses of Rule Britannia and all would be well in the Conqueror world...or Narnia.
    I think you should go and take a l-o-n-g holiday in Broadmoor. That's where you belong.

    #61
    My Gaelic consists of a few words and phrases. To put the matter straight, Gaelic is NOT the national language of Scotland and has not been so for centuries.
    The bulk of the population lived in the Lowlands and spoke Lowland Scots - akin to English. Neither is the kilt the official Scottish attire. You can thank Sir Walter Scott for this error, when he organised the visit of the Regent, later to be George IV, to Edinburgh. The kilt, was taken to be synonymous with Scotland and wrongly thought to be the main attire of the country. Up to this day this myth still prevails. When I see wedding groups from ALL over the UK dressed up as “kilties” I have to smile.
    In Glasgow, you did not go out in a kilt UNLESS it was a military parade or you were in a pipe band.

    Feb 12th, 2014 - 11:37 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Be serious

    I think you mean colonialist Britain.

    Feb 12th, 2014 - 12:19 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Clyde15

    #64
    NO ! I mean colonialist England in this context. C**** only means England when he talks about Britain.

    Feb 12th, 2014 - 12:36 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Be serious

    So Scottish soldiers, engineers, explorers, bankers and entrepreneurs had nothing to with building the British Empire or should that be the English Empire? Try and rise above it, you're better than that.

    Feb 12th, 2014 - 12:50 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Clyde15

    #66
    Scotland in many cases ran the Empire but we are talking about the period after a hypothetical independent Scotland..
    I am showing how ridiculous his idea of “attacking” Scotland would appear to the rest of the world and how it would give a field day to England's detractors.

    Scotland would have NO B.O.T.'s and no say in their future, so it would be only a “colonialist ”England.
    I was referring to what would be said in the UN if C's wet dream came to pass.
    Many of England's enemies would say that they were reverting to type.
    You don't have to believe it but many countries would use this as proof that the leopard had not changes its spots.

    Feb 12th, 2014 - 02:03 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • redp0ll

    @63. Clyde
    Gaelic I don't have it myself though I have read some literature in translation.
    However I was a bit surprised to see some signs in Gaelic at Falkirk and even Gretna!
    Yes there are a lot of Scots myths as you rightly point out.re the kilt or philabeg the first reference I found for that garment is 1692 so you can't blame Wally Scott for everything. In any case I'm sure he might not have approved of George IV wearing pink long johns under his kilt!
    Well Scott was a low lander anyway so he used his imagination. Those riding families were most unlikely to have worn any sort of kilt yet they all do today. Bit uncomfortable to be clad in a steel bonnet and hauberk astride a garron on hot trod in that kit.
    The lowlands spoke Doric, not Gaelic and wrote in that idiom (see Leslie's satirical play The Three Eastaites). If they spoke anything previous to that it was probably Cumbric which is more akin to Welsh than Gaelic
    A few more legends to debunk. Robert de Bryus, anglonorman. William de Wallach probably of welsh origin.
    Ossian? Even though that legend has long been accepted as a fraud folk still visit his supposed grave in the Sma' Glen
    Another popular one is Henry Sinclair and his rediscovery of America a century before Columbus. “Evidence”? The effigy of the Westford knight, purportedly Sir James Gunn. Thanks to Dan Browns novel Roslyn Chapel has made a mint out of that
    Och well the Scots was always canny with their bawbees

    Feb 12th, 2014 - 04:49 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • A_Voice

    68
    I don't know why you were surprised to see Gaelic at Gretna....
    The sign before Gretna on the border had Gaelic on it for as long as I can remember....
    It used to say ....a hundred thousand welcomes....ceud mìle fàilte
    They've changed it now to...Fàilte gu Alba...Welcome to Scotland....
    Also if you have a shop..commercial establishment the Govt will give you a grant to replace the sign to a Gaelic/English combo.....
    A canny Scot that wants a new sign knows exactly what to do.....

    Feb 12th, 2014 - 05:28 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • redp0ll

    68 T o quote James Barrie on his fellow countrymen. “ There are few more impressive sights in this world than a Scotman on the make”

    Feb 12th, 2014 - 06:23 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • A_Voice

    70
    “The average person puts only 25% of his energy and ability into his work. The world takes off its hat to those who put in more than 50% of their capacity, and stands on its head for those few and far between souls who devote 100%.”
    Andrew Carnegie....

    Feb 12th, 2014 - 06:40 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • redp0ll

    Yes voice I have great respect for Carnegie, what he did from I think pretty humble beginnings

    Feb 12th, 2014 - 07:13 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • A_Voice

    Getting this out there before anyone has the chance to say ...I told you so...
    Tomorrow's Headlines......

    Three main political parties unite to deny a separate Scotland the pound
    The Conservatives, Labour and the Liberal Democrats will unite to rule out an independent Scotland using the pound.
    The three main parties will make a joint attack on the hopes of Scottish Nationalists to be allowed to go on using sterling if Scotland votes for independence at a referendum in September.

    Feb 12th, 2014 - 11:30 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Terence Hill

    73 A_Voice

    It is difficult for most governments to allow a balance of stabilizing without restricting their economy. As can be seen with Argentina and Venezuela. With Scotland in tow, it would be impossible to manage. This is exactly why the Canadian government wouldn't allow Quebec to continue to use the Canadian dollar, if they achieved independence.

    Feb 15th, 2014 - 01:28 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Be serious

    Alex Salmond with his second class honours Economics degree, once described Sterling as a millstone round Scotland's neck. He should be thanking England for taking that particular option away. Anyway whats wrong with Scotland joining the Euro? Thought the SNP loved all things EU.

    Feb 15th, 2014 - 04:41 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Troy Tempest

    56 A-voice

    ”Again keep up to date....it appears that Terry is doing an Isolde now.....They are OUR Islands and not YOUR Islands....;-))))“

    Update:

    The ”Eastern Falkland Island Sophistry Rant” thread is now concluded and closed.

    Terence Hill successfully refuted the deceitful ill-mannered ravings of A_Voice/Think, with a well-reasoned intelligent post.

    A_Void's true colours and allegiances have been revealed, whether he chooses to name his nationality or not.

    :-)
    http://en.mercopress.com/2014/02/05/argentina-grateful-to-grenada-for-malvinas-claim-support-promises-cooperation?utm_source=email&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=aviso_comentarios#comments

    Feb 15th, 2014 - 07:27 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • toooldtodieyoung

    75 Be serious

    Poor old Alex Salmond. Is he finding out that, in the real world, you actually can't have your cake AND eat it?

    Feb 15th, 2014 - 09:49 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Anglotino

    Seems Scotland's membership of the EU will hinge on Spain.

    European Commission president José Manuel Barroso has stated that it would be almost impossible for Scotland to gain EU membership. The possibility hinges on all members agreeing to Scotlands application and therefore any countries with popular seccessionist movements would potentially send a message and veto such an application.

    The silver lining is that should Spain NOT stand in the way for Scotland, then it would create a precedent and potentially empower seperatists in Catalonia and Basque country as well as aid Gibralatar's push for self-determination.

    Such a conundrum for so many on here that support Scotland's right to self-determination but don't support Catalonia's nor Gibraltar's right to self-determination.

    Feb 16th, 2014 - 10:45 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • A_Voice

    “José Manuel Barroso has stated that it would be almost impossible for Scotland to gain EU membership. ”
    ...you mention it, like it was a bad thing...
    The EU is only good for Germany....
    The EU will still import Whisky...Electricity...Oil...etc from Scotland....so who cares..
    England can have all the EU scroungers on benefits....plaguing the NHS for free health care....

    Feb 17th, 2014 - 12:24 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Anglotino

    I didn't say it was a bad thing.

    Feb 17th, 2014 - 02:38 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Be serious

    The EU is a disaster but Salmond and the SNP appear to want to stay in it.

    You would have thought that all this and the use of the £ would have been sorted out by now. Seem to be a bit half baked especially as The people living in Scotland are likely to vote Yes.

    Feb 17th, 2014 - 03:35 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Anglotino

    The EU is not a disaster. It just doesn't fit with the UKs aspirations or desires.

    The EU is the world's most successful example of an integrated trade group, international freedom of movement and a shared currency. The fact it still has problems to work out shows how unsuccessful all other attempts have been.

    The EU is still a relatively young organisation at less than 20 years old. It will continue and will eventually solve many of its problems. However it has moved on from its original purpose as the old EEC and if this doesn't fit the UK, then it will leave and the EU will survive. So will the UK.

    The UK is a large economy and is much more able to survive. However smaller economies gain certain benefits as part of a larger integrated economy.

    The UK prosper outside the EU, however an independent Scotland that ranks as the world's 44th largest economy (below Greece but above Pakistan) will gain more by being part of the EU than not.

    Feb 17th, 2014 - 04:59 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Be serious

    Tell that to the Greeks.

    Feb 17th, 2014 - 07:40 am - Link - Report abuse 0

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