MercoPress. South Atlantic News Agency
Brazil, the most dangerous country for Latam journalists, according to RSF
More than 20 years after the fall of the dictatorships and civil wars that dominated Latin America, the region continues to be marked by a strong retaliation against the press, according to Reporters Without Borders, RSF, most recent annual index on the state of press freedom, which was published on Feb. 12. Read full article
Comments
Disclaimer & comment rulesMmmmmm....Such a resounding endorsement from such an objective and independent organization. Brassie, are you proud? What have you to say about this?
Feb 15th, 2014 - 02:21 pm - Link - Report abuse 0So What? Will that be your comeback? Or will you just refrain from even answering?
Do these trolls no see the path that Latam is on? How can anyone in good conscious really condone this path? All of you fail to comprehend that until you acquire a strong government that can garner respect in the community of world nations, you and all your people will continue on this path and always falter.
The commie / Marxist bastards that infest the planet seem to be getting stronger every year.
Feb 15th, 2014 - 02:26 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I wonder what the answer is: kill them all!
@2
Feb 15th, 2014 - 02:29 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Also in the report, RSF wrote that the continent's two largest powers, Brazil and the United States, “should place more importance in freedom of information… unfortunately the reality is far from that.”
Canadians and Astecas....Where are you?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w8PcAqbjfns&list=FLmXPTu1f8AdGlizWNiASx2A
I agree that the USA needs to reverse the current trend and will through a systemic process. However, one thing to bear in mind is that in the USA......journalists are not dying doing there jobs.
Feb 15th, 2014 - 03:04 pm - Link - Report abuse 03 Brassiere
Feb 15th, 2014 - 05:44 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“Canadians and Astecas....Where are you?”
How about, “Brazilians, Venezuelans, Argentinians, where are you?”
Take the responsibility yourselves, as you should!
Responsibility? What do you know about it?
Feb 15th, 2014 - 07:04 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Poor Mercopress (British copy paste media), a picture of a camaraman got hit, with info from mexico which is worse than Brazil. If the camaraman wouldn't get hit by a “black block” firework rocket, RSF would not mention Brazil at all plus has ZERO to do with press freedom. Journalists must protect them self, but not a single word from RSF on self defense. Claiming Brazil is today worse than Mexico is a cheap shot because RSF is full aware of the drug war in Mexico and close to the border with the US, where more journalists are dying and ask for more protection (rather than also self defense).
Feb 15th, 2014 - 07:21 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“Responsibility? What do you know about it?”
Troy idiot knows nothing about responsibility. He doesn't even know if he should pretend or not that the media in the UK is nothing more than corporate news (what freedom of press if it's corporate press). It's a troll trapped with his fantasy fight of “look at me, we're number 33”. Canada is same story..corporate press and you better play the game or you're out of a job.
Perhaps they should just forget the world cup,
Feb 15th, 2014 - 07:23 pm - Link - Report abuse 0and play rollerball instead.
No friend Briton. We play soccer, no more.
Feb 15th, 2014 - 07:31 pm - Link - Report abuse 0If you are now, not playing football anymore,
Feb 15th, 2014 - 07:34 pm - Link - Report abuse 0what are you going to play.
I will protect my country to death.
Feb 15th, 2014 - 07:44 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Briton, my friend.
I watched the BBC report of this clash when the reporter in the picture above was hit in the head. The BBC reporter went to help and staunch the bleeding until medical help arrived and the man was taken to hospital in a serious condition. It did not sound as if he would survive but I don't know. The BBC report stated they were not sure which side threw the missile.
Feb 15th, 2014 - 07:46 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Journalists have always played an important role in reporting from dangerous places. We rely on them to inform us. Most do exactly that, report the facts and allow us to make up our own minds. They bring issues into the open for debate. It would be a sorry world if we had to rely on governments alone for information.
You only have to look at the number of journalists killed in Russia to understand how oppressive regimes do not want free press.
7 Fido Dildo
Feb 15th, 2014 - 07:54 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“Canada is same story..corporate press and you better play the game or you're out of a job”
Huh? What? “Oligarchs” now???
C'mon, you are OFF TOPIC.
Forget about Mexico, forget about Canada.
“Brassiero” @ 3 brought up Canada, not me.
Brassiero was stating that Canadians should oversee your Press Freedoms. WHY??
It is BRAZIL, not Canada.
It is pure Dishonest DIVERSION on the part of Brassiero and Fido Dildo.
An international agency for journalists and press freedom is complaining thst it is not safe to be a journalist in your country, Brazil
If YOU don't want criticism, and you want your government to be more accountable for their actions, it is up to YOU to endure freedom of the press and enable journalists to report safely.
England to Briton
Feb 15th, 2014 - 08:01 pm - Link - Report abuse 0My friend
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCTxrQtgYzHRNAliCPIKov-Q
thank you..
Feb 15th, 2014 - 08:05 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Thank you Briton! Forever!
Feb 15th, 2014 - 08:10 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Funding Sources
Feb 15th, 2014 - 08:58 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Robert Menard, the Secretary General of RSF, was forced to confess that RSF's budget was primarily provided by “US organizations strictly linked with US foreign policy” (Thibodeau, La Presse).
There you go, not just a theory, but a fact why the RSF is nothing less than a cheap propaganda machine.
17 Dildo
Feb 15th, 2014 - 09:05 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Please provide a link.
Reporters Without Borders
Feb 15th, 2014 - 09:34 pm - Link - Report abuse 02012 budget: 4.3 million euros[65]
Sources of income:
35.8% Publications and related products
13.9% Corporate donors and foundations
19.9% Government and other public funds
13.2% Private donations and bequests
3.8% Other income
13.5% Deficiency for the financial year
Another claim against Britain
Feb 15th, 2014 - 10:11 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“Caribbean slave descendants, some of whose ancestors worked for David Cameron's distant family, are calling for an apology and billions of pounds in reparations”
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/centralamericaandthecaribbean/jamaica/10640560/Jamaicans-lead-Caribbean-calls-for-Britain-to-pay-slavery-reparations.html
19 captain Poppy
Feb 15th, 2014 - 10:20 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I notice that Frodo Dildo has still failed to produce a link to back up his statement.
It's amusing that Troll “Dildo” tries to imply that RSF is a biased organistion run by the US government, yet Troll “Brassiero” quotes the RSF being critical of the USA in the same sentence that it condemns Brazil
Brassiero @3,
”Also in the report, RSF wrote that the continent's two largest powers, Brazil and the United States, “should place more importance in freedom of information… unfortunately the reality is far from that.”
Big fat FAIL, Trolls
LOL !!
Massive Troll Fail!
Feb 15th, 2014 - 10:38 pm - Link - Report abuse 0They are such a joke! Lol.
However, if we can get serious again and to stay roughly on topic....
On the subject of reporters and press freedom in Latin America and particularly Venezuela please see
https://yrj8usi8t5zbg6zcefy4.r.worldssl.net/video/que-el-mundo-sepa-whats-going-on-in-venezuela-en-ingles/
and
https://yrj8usi8t5zbg6zcefy4.r.worldssl.net/video/que-el-mundo-sepa-whats-going-on-in-venezuela-en-ingles/
sorry I don't have much on Brazil. I'm sure other posters do. Also the government s of Brazil and Venezuela are similar ideologically speaking. ...
the most dangerous countries for journalists, are those where you can find uk or us troops.
Feb 15th, 2014 - 10:53 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Video shows deaths of two Reuters journalists in Iraq in 2007
http://edition.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/meast/04/05/iraq.photographers.killed/
‘Time for ICC to investigate British troops’ abuses in Iraq’
http://edition.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/meast/04/05/iraq.photographers.killed/
@Ilsen
Feb 15th, 2014 - 11:25 pm - Link - Report abuse 0A protest by the Venezuelans in BsAs and La Solano Lima (Macri youth supporters) protested in the embassy but were “boycotted” by Quebracho who has links with the Argentine intelligence
http://www.urgente24.com/223888-muy-raras-las-muertes-en-venezuela
20 Marcos
Feb 15th, 2014 - 11:50 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“Another claim against Britain... ”
OFF TOPIC !!
Unrelated DIVERSION!!
23 Paulo Cedrone
“Video shows deaths of two Reuters journalists in Iraq in 2007”
‘Time for ICC to investigate British troops’ abuses in Iraq’”
OFF -TOPIC Paulo !!
You are trying to DIVERT this discussion.
Hapless clumsy Trolls
#21 Well Troy, you know that old story line....if anyone, regardless of how independent and unbiased they are happen to say something negative against a latam country, they must be under the strings of the evil empire of the the USA.
Feb 16th, 2014 - 12:32 am - Link - Report abuse 0I posted some links in another article from Reuters and Bloomberg regarding and poor economies and the “dildo” referred to me as a Obama troll googling my time away because I posted facts. Actually, he told me to “grow up”. This coming from someone the uses a screen name from a cartoon!
The only saving grace is that these idiots here, the la campora trolls will see reality sooner than later. Winter in SA is around the corner. And while I wish no bad fortune to most people, these trolls will see winter in a different light. The “dildo” is another that tries to have people believe he is in the USA....or was....lol
26 Captain Poppy
Feb 16th, 2014 - 02:27 am - Link - Report abuse 0I wonder at what point the Trolls will accept the inevitability of collapse, themselves.
Will their pay continue ?
Will they just stop posting?
This is an English language forum. The Spanish forum is ignored.
Who are they trying to deceive?
The IMF, their Falklanders, possible immigrants, SCOTUS ???
“This is an English language forum. The Spanish forum is ignored.”
Feb 16th, 2014 - 04:01 am - Link - Report abuse 0the thing is, trolo tempestilent, that none of you know a word of spanish, french, german, or any other language than english.
and without you, we would not have anybody to laugh at.
so we have to move to the english language forum.
@24 CD. Thanks for the link. Interesting to learn of the parallels, and of how similar battles in B A.
Feb 16th, 2014 - 05:25 am - Link - Report abuse 0@25 well done Troy! These fools always try to divert when they have nothing to contribute.
@28 you are a prejudiced idiot of the worst kind. You can not possibly know of my abilities in, and knowledge of, languages other than English. Thus you parade your ignorance and stupidity for all to see.
28 Paulo Cee-drone
Feb 16th, 2014 - 05:25 am - Link - Report abuse 0“the thing is, trolo tempestilent, that none of you know a word of spanish, french, german, or any other language than english.”
But you aren't trying to steal the money or the territory of the Spanish French or Germans, are you??
Thanks for posting in English though, that way, more people know what a bunch of thieves and criminals you Trolls and your governments really are.
Your lies are clear in every post you make.
You personally look like a childish moron who stupidly repeats every invention he is told.
20 Marcos Alejandro (#)
Feb 16th, 2014 - 08:22 am - Link - Report abuse 0Feb 15th, 2014 - 10:11 pm
Just think. It would have to go to the ICJ and any ruling would affect, not just the UK but any country who was ever involved in slavery.
Which just about covers every other country in the UN and some pockets aren't as deep as the Brits. Argentina for instance. Or Spain, Portugal, Italy or various African countries who sold their own people into slavery. And then out of the woodwork comes me and people just like me. I did my own family history and although I am white one of my distant grandfathers was a black African slave whilst I know of at least one black celebrity here in the UK who had a distant grandfather who was a white slave owner. Oh what a tangled web. Good luck with it I say it should be very entertaining and who knows maybe my family will be in for some 'reparations' too. Bring it on!
(17) Fido Dido…
Feb 16th, 2014 - 08:25 am - Link - Report abuse 0As you well know, we don´t agree on economic debacle theories (or your love for gold)…........ but when you are right, you are right!
”Reporters without Borders* is not a reliable source. Its hidden political agenda has become all too evident and its malice toward certain nations that are on the U.S. blacklist is hardly a matter of coincidence. The generous contributions received from the NED explain RSF’s alignment with the White House. Robert Menard does not direct an organization that defends press freedoms, but instead a propaganda office financed by economic and financial conglomerates at the service of the world’s powerful.“
http://www.globalresearch.ca/the-deceit-of-reporters-without-borders/7274
Anyhow....., hereby a couple more links from “Thinking” people around the world about “Reporters without Borders*” for thebenefit of the brainwashed monolingual and computer illiterate Turnips, grossly overrepresented here at MercoPress…:
”Robert Menard, the Secretary General of RSF, was forced to confess that RSF's budget was primarily provided by ”US organizations strictly linked with US foreign policy“
http://www.globalresearch.ca/the-deceit-of-reporters-without-borders/7274
”British press baron Lord Northcliff said, ”News is something that someone, somewhere wants to keep secret, everything else is advertising.” If this is true, then U.S. government funding of Reporters Without Borders* must be news, because the organization and its friends in Washington have gone to extraordinary lengths to cover it up.”
http://www.globalresearch.ca/the-deceit-of-reporters-without-borders/7274
* “Reporters without Borders (RWB), or Reporters Sans Frontières (RSF)” a “Brandname” shamelessly stolen by the global advertising agency Saatchi & Saatchi from a decent organization as “Doctors without Borders or Médecins Sans Frontières (MSF) ” to denominate yet another CIA instrument…
32 Think
Feb 16th, 2014 - 09:27 am - Link - Report abuse 0”(17) Fido Dido
As you well know, we don´t agree on economic debacle theories (or your love for gold)…........ but when you are right, you are right!“
That's odd, now THINK is jumping to the rescue and is speaking for Fido's Dildo, just like he did for ”A_Voice“!
What's the matter Think, does your sock puppet, Dildo need a little reinforcement?
Poor attempt to discredit this article and the RSF group.
Your two linked sources are notorious ultra-left biased propaganda sites.
SourceWatch especially, is known to specialise in discrediting organisations and promoting conspiracy theories.
”SourceWatch is a propaganda site funded by an extreme left-wing, anti-capitalist and anti-corporate organization, the Center for Media and Democracy. Just like the untrustworthy Wikipedia the content can be written and edited by ordinary web users. Users who all conveniently share an extreme left-wing bias. SourceWatch is frequently cited by those seeking to smear individuals and organizations who do not share their extreme left-wing bias since they cannot find any legitimate criticisms from respected news sources.“
http://www.populartechnology.net/2011/10/truth-about-sourcewatch.html?m=1
”Counterpunch editor, Alexander Cockburn, specializes in distortions of reality and half-truths.“
http://www.populartechnology.net/2011/10/truth-about-sourcewatch.html?m=1
Shame on you for trying to pull a fast one!
As ”Fido Dido“ said to Captain Poppy, ”grow up”
In one way in must be nice to be able to blame everything on wild conspiracy theories.
Feb 16th, 2014 - 11:25 am - Link - Report abuse 0When you never have to live up to your own actions it must be freeing.
Living like a teenager your whole life, never growing up, never having responsibility, wow!
Now, how a whole nation does it is quite remarkable.
I have long thought there is some sort of mass delusion there.
Comment removed by the editor.
Feb 16th, 2014 - 11:57 am - Link - Report abuse 0Argentina would make a great lesson for civics if world leaders are interested in taking a look at the best ways to grind a country into the dirt.
Feb 16th, 2014 - 12:24 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Argentina’s slide has not been sudden. It has been seductively gradual and by degree. Even with a dreadful spot on the country’s history from 1976 − 1983, it has never suffered a Mao or Stalin. One consistency through the decline has been the cafes of Buenos Aires. Portenos, as locals are called, have blithely continued to sip the espresso while their country fades into obsolescence, poverty, crime and corruption; much like having tea on the Titanic after the iceberg has been struck.
http://guardianlv.com/2014/02/argentina-makes-a-great-civics-lesson/
From the above linked article....:
Feb 16th, 2014 - 12:53 pm - Link - Report abuse 0- “There are still many things to like about Argentina. The Patagonia wilds.....”
- “The Argentines, for the most part, are among the kindest, most caring people on the globe......”
Yupppppppppppppppppp.....
That's us Argie Patagonians allright...
Garçon..., a triple Espresso, per favore...
Ahhhh.... and three croissants, s'il vous plaît...
Merci Vielmals...
;-)))
It must be in the manual to make a personal attack if you can't make an argument.
Feb 16th, 2014 - 01:05 pm - Link - Report abuse 0It is interesting how Argentines are inclined to distance themselves from Argentina as a whole and exult their own province/region when they are faced with the indefensible. TTT used to do that a lot. 'Yes, Argentina is in economic meltdown/has raging inflation/escalating violent crime/terrible government, but here in Mendoza all is fine and dandy. Now we see the same from another regular.
To be fair, I like a lot of Argentina and the majority of people are friendly and welcoming. I can't say I had problems getting along with the locals, but that has nothing to do with the problems the country faces with successive corrupt and incompetent governments.
38. Its the teenage mentality, never admit they make a mistake and hope that someone bails them out.
Feb 16th, 2014 - 01:14 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Too bad for them nobody cares about Argentina any longer.
It can fade into oblivion and nobody will notice.
Tinakroo has never been right about anything. He can't even get the time of day right. Believe me he's not starting now. If he really knew who I was he'd for sure be harassing me through email/phone etc. He has no idea. Its best just to ignore the crazy in the corner.
TWIMC (and turnipette at [38] )
Feb 16th, 2014 - 01:44 pm - Link - Report abuse 0It’s a well known fact that every biggish Country in the World has considerable regional differences in their population kindheartedness and empathy….
“Think” Wyoming vs. New York.
“Think” Scotland vs. South-East England.
“Think” Patagonia vs. Santiago or Buenos Aires…
@9 Don't you mean that you don't play soccer anymore? One of Brazil's “greatest” players, Rivaldo. 2002. “In Brazil's opening game against Turkey, Rivaldo fell to the ground clutching his face after Turkey's Hakan Ünsal had kicked the ball at his legs. Hakan Ünsal, who had already been booked, was sent off while Rivaldo jumped to his feet and continued playing.” Then there was Ronaldhino. 2002. “Against England in the quarter finals, Brazil won 2–1. Ronaldinho scored the winner with a free kick and also assisted teammate Rivaldo for their first goal, but was sent off for stamping on the right ankle of England's Danny Mills.”
Feb 16th, 2014 - 02:00 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@11 Next week? Too soon?
@17 Yeah, so? Where do you think comes from for news media in south america? CFK likes “democratizing” the media. By restricting the supply of newsprint, by reducing “licences”. Correo does much the same. Who can expand their mind? News has to be credible. Otherwise it won't be read or viewed. Just look at these possible headlines. “Argie police leave weapons behind and spend week collecting for charities and helping indigenous people”. That's incredible. Unbelievable. Then there's “Over 10 years, argie police murder 250,000 uruguayans”. That's credible. Replace “argie” with other suitable latam nationalities when necessary.
@20 We know how to read our own newspapers, thank you. And this bunch can think again. Only those “damaged” can claim compensation. And they are all dead. Just another lawyer trying to steal.
@23 Will the ICC be investigating argie troops' abuses in the Falklands? Argie troops' war crimes? There are quite a few!
@28 Only ignorant, uneducated, poor peasants can't speak and understand English.
@32 Very few “reliable” sources in latam or even south america. Because “readers” are brainwashed and stupid.
@34 Why do you persist in calling yourself “Think” when you can't?
@40 “Think” humanity vs. argieland.
@Think
Feb 16th, 2014 - 02:53 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Patagonian provinces are recipients of heavy subsidies and most of the work force is state employed. Chubut state employment has grown 64% in the past 10 years, that exceeds the other provinces.
http://www.diariojornada.com.ar/87642/Politica/La_cantidad_de_empleados_publicos_en_Chubut_crecio_64_en_la_ultima_decada
And up to 1/3 of all private jobs are shop employees.
I had a acquaintance of mine telling me that Rio Gallegos is terrible too.
The whole Kirchnerist Patagonia is like a becoming a Siberian Soviet Republic.
Its going to get complicated when they start negotiating the next rises in salary.
What is your opinión on the matter??
42 CabezaDura2 (#)
Feb 16th, 2014 - 04:51 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“What is your opinión on the matter??”
I'm guessing it'll be something completely off topic like, oh I dunno, the foot and mouth epidemic in the UK in 2007. And a link to a gerbil riding a miniature motorcycle or some such.
That's how it usually gies anyway.
“Think” Government vs peaceful unarmed protesters
Feb 16th, 2014 - 06:07 pm - Link - Report abuse 0http://caracaschronicles.com
Warning:
Argentina is following the Venezuelan play book
44
Feb 16th, 2014 - 06:30 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The security forces of Argentina don’t have the same level of brainwashing that the Venezuelans do. For what I have seen in those pics and read of Venezuela it’s always the “Bolivarian” police, the “Bolivarian” army, the ”Bolivarian” Intelligence service.
There is no sort of ideology of state like that in Argentina.....
(42) CabezaDura2
Feb 16th, 2014 - 06:39 pm - Link - Report abuse 0~30% of Chubut’s working force are ”Public Employees”, you say…..
Are those ”Public Employees” teachers, bank examiners, revenue agents, food and drug inspectors, police and security officers, medical, cultural or art workers, national park wardens, communal service workers, librarians, etc, etc, etc…?
Or are they employees of monopolistic business enterprises mismanaged by the government, politicians’ relatives, ñoqui officials taking bribes from small business or beneficiaries of a spoils system of public employment?
The relation between a nation’s/provincial’s economy and the percentage of its public workers depends of its political and social organization that determines what tasks are assigned to government, what incentives and constraints are placed on public workers, and who is attracted to public service. With the right combination, public service can be as economically productive as private enterprise.....
Anyhow….. That ~30% puts Chubut in about the same league as them Bloody Communist Scandinavian Countries…..
Or…., making it more easy for you to swallow…., in about the same league as two of my favourite States in the USA…:Wyoming & Alaska….
http://www.governing.com/news/state/2010-census-public-employees-workforce-among-states.html
PS...:
That acquaintance of yours .............................is a Turnip.
38. elaine
Feb 16th, 2014 - 06:55 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“To be fair, I like a lot of Argentina and the majority of people are friendly and welcoming. I can't say I had problems getting along with the locals, but that has nothing to do with the problems the country faces with successive corrupt and incompetent governments.”
at last, the first sensitive comment.
finally somebody can differentiate the people from the government / politicians in charge.
I don’t have a problem with public employees the problem is who is paying for it Think... Why should the Pampas subsidize Kirchnerists strongholds like BsAs province & Patagonia..??
Feb 16th, 2014 - 07:12 pm - Link - Report abuse 0http://www.lanacion.com.ar/1509123-mas-de-la-mitad-de-las-provincias-con-rojo-en-sus-cuentas
The deficit of the provinces is expected to spiral out of control this year with some points in the increase of wages
http://www.lanacion.com.ar/1509123-mas-de-la-mitad-de-las-provincias-con-rojo-en-sus-cuentas
The turnip acquaintance walked into a hospital in Gallegos and there was one receptionist working and attending properly while other 3 were having mate and gossiping.
(48) CabezaDura2
Feb 16th, 2014 - 07:32 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Geeeee…................, pendex…
Do you always turn up in class so unprepared...?
For your kind info, the province of Chubut, as the provinces of Santa Cruz, Rio Negro and Neuquen are net contributors to the National Coffers.
http://www.defensachubut.gov.ar/prensa/?q=node/3195
Please educate yourself…..
PS:
How many receptionists did your Turnipy aquaintance need?
Have you even read closely the article??? Who teaches you economics, YB and Anglotino??
Feb 16th, 2014 - 07:48 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“Chubut recaudó $1.200 millones para las arcas nacionales de los 19.500 millones que finalmente el Estado nacional recaudó sumando a todas las provincias. Sin embargo, como parte de la distribución de recursos recibió $1.600 millones.”
it follows
“ Y si bien en números Chubut recibe más de lo que recauda, lo cierto es que se trata de la provincia que menos recibe en este concepto. En el otro extremo está Catamarca que apenas recauda $200 millones aunque recibe $2.600 millones. Bensimón establece una relación entre recaudación-reparto en porcentajes.”
In other words you are complaining that you are not given more out of the national coffers in accordance to what you actually put into it, but the actual fact is that you ARE a deficitiary province...“You are saying that Rioja is getting a bigger differential déficit than us, its unfair” And a very inefficient one too.
28 paulcedron
Feb 16th, 2014 - 07:57 pm - Link - Report abuse 0None of you know a word of Spanish, French, German, or any other language than English,
Mmmmm
Well,,,
We can speak , American , Australian , new Zealand , Canadian , etc lol.
But,,
es sólo que no puede hablar español con fluidez.
And
c'est juste que nous ne peut pas parler couramment le français.
Or lastley
, es ist nur können wir nicht sprechen fließend Deutsch.
lololol
..
@50
Feb 16th, 2014 - 08:13 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Sorry Catamarca… but in the end you are a very deficitiary province with 33% of employees of the provincial State of Chubut.
LOL what a crap argument of your own public provincial platform!!!, Cordoba puts in 2000 MM USD in soy bean retentions ONLY and gets back 10 % of that amount.
So now back to the actual point how is Patagonia going to pay back what it owes to the state… Who is going to pay back what the national government owes to Cordoba pension security??
Please do not feed the Trolls.
Feb 16th, 2014 - 08:14 pm - Link - Report abuse 0briton
Feb 16th, 2014 - 08:16 pm - Link - Report abuse 0lol
pas être autorisé à utiliser le traducteur google
not be allowed to use the google translator
Feb 16th, 2014 - 08:17 pm - Link - Report abuse 0shows enthusiasm,
lolol
@ 46 Lunatic
Feb 16th, 2014 - 08:18 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I would give up while you are behind, because if you do not it will be clear that you cannot even do simple arithmetic.
OH, what am I saying? It’s Lunatic, we KNOW he can’t do simple arithmetic, well not without LYING about the numbers.
Swede!
one and one is eleven,
Feb 16th, 2014 - 08:22 pm - Link - Report abuse 0so simple, yet complicated to the unwary
lolol.
Comment removed by the editor.
Feb 16th, 2014 - 08:26 pm - Link - Report abuse 056 ChrisR
Feb 16th, 2014 - 08:28 pm - Link - Report abuse 0But can they understand our national pastime..?
Two fats ladies =??
Two little ducks = ??
Minus, Kelly’s eye, = 99
Simple is it not..
Mustapha laugh..
.
@47 You obviously have not been around for long as I have made similar statements on numerous occasions. I don't feel compelled to add it to every post I make but posters that have been around a while are well aware of it.
Feb 16th, 2014 - 09:06 pm - Link - Report abuse 0oh look, the trolls have managed to take the whole subject Off Topic.
Feb 16th, 2014 - 09:19 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Shame on Them.
As for the normally intelligent posters on here who have laet themselves be suckered into these false arguements...
Shame on You! (let yourselves down..)
I warned you, see @53 Ilsen
Please do not feed the Trolls!
This thread is not about Cubut economic staus within Argentina nor about Iraq, or other random 'point-scoring' it is about, wait for it...
“Brazil, the most dangerous country for Latam journalists, according to RSF”
This might get you lot back on track, that is if you have anything worthwhile to contribute..
”The World Association of Newspapers and News Publishers (WAN-IFRA) and the World Editors Forum (WEF) addressed a letter to President Dilma Rousseff on Tuesday 11 February expressing their “grave concern” at the recent death of journalist Santiago Andrade.“
http://www.wan-ifra.org/articles/2014/02/12/worlds-press-concerned-by-journalists-safety-after-cameramans-death-in-brazil
OR
”Brazilian journalists and international journalism organizations are dismayed that Brazil, along with Cuba, Venezuela, India and Pakistan, decided to block a U.N. plan that would have promoted journalists” safety and helped curb impunity in crimes against journalists, reported the Committee to Protect Journalists (CPJ).
During UNESCO”s 28th biennial session held during the end of March in Paris, Brazil, part of the UNESCO International Program for the Development of Communication Council (IPDC), refused to endorse the U.N. Draft Plan of Action on the Safety of Journalists and the Issue of Impunity.
“At least 900 journalists have been killed on duty in the past two decades. More than 600 of them were murdered, and most of the cases remain unsolved,” said CPJ Director of Advocacy and Communications Gypsy Guillén Kaiser in a statement. “We are appalled that this historic opportunity for the international community to take concrete action has been thwarted.”
read more at http://www.wan-ifra.org/articles/2014/02/12/worlds-press-concerned-by-journalists-safety-after-cameramans-death-in-brazil
Think
Feb 16th, 2014 - 09:25 pm - Link - Report abuse 0LOL, if you want to talk about net contributions your article is missing at least half a dozen other budgets like public infrastructure transfers and capital goods acquisitions financed by the national government; you received per capita $33.542 for each Chubutense just after Santa Cruz which is around $ 72.300 per capita, from 2003 to 2011… That is about $ 1.677.100.000 per YEAR for CHUBUT!!
http://www.elcomercial.com.ar/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=107597:formosa-es-una-de-las-provincias-mas-beneficiadas-con-obra-publica&Itemid=55
You are indebted well over $1000 with the National Government State in taxes alone bacause that was back in 2012.
It’s a foregone conclusion because your article paid by the Chubut gov’t admits it discounts other districts like Santa Fe, and Cordoba who are the main contributors nationally,
http://www.elcomercial.com.ar/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=107597:formosa-es-una-de-las-provincias-mas-beneficiadas-con-obra-publica&Itemid=55
62 CabezaDura2
Feb 16th, 2014 - 10:01 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You say...:
LOL, if you want to talk about net contributions your article is missing at least half a dozen other budgets like public infrastructure transfers and capital goods acquisitions financed by the national government; you received per capita $33.542 for each Chubutense from 2003 to 2011… That is about $ 1.677.100.000 per YEAR for CHUBUT!!
I say...:
Nothing is missing from the original article...:
Your so painfully calculated...: “$1.677.100.000 public infrastructure transfers and capital goods acquisitions financed by the national government for CHUBUT per YEAR”
Are not other than the $1.600.000.000 Resources distribution mentioned in the original article....
Pendex...., I'm tired of your taradez...
I hereby wish you a good life...
Hasta siempre...
El Think
47 Paul Cee-drone
Feb 16th, 2014 - 10:05 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“at last, the first sensitive comment.
finally somebody can differentiate the people from the government / politicians in charge.”
Paulo,
Honestly, you are so full of sh!t !!
Half of us UK/US/Falklanders and other Brits, have been saying exactly that, all along.
You've been too busy venting your own anti-Brit garbage you are learning in school, to actually listen to what people are saying, or think for yourself.
I can't speak for all of the Islanders, but most people have no beef with the citizens of Argentina.
However, the criminals and thieves that are your government, the Trolls like Think and Stevie who support them, and the Mud-slinging mindless infants like yourself and Toby, are callous lying, propagandists.
“Ideology before People”, “Pockets before People”
“Peron before People”
46 Think
“Anyhow….. That ~30% puts Chubut in about the same league as them Bloody Communist Scandinavian Countries….. ”
“Communist Scandinavian countries”??
If they are “Communist”, what are you and Venezuela, now.
While many of the Scandinavian countries are internationally recognised as progressive and looking after their people well, with high levels of service, you're the “poster child” for faltering infrastructure and institutions, social repression, and a proven failed economic model that went out with the Soviet Union.
46 Think
“That acquaintance of yours .............................is a Turnip.”
That's rich !!
You're pissed because I showed your links and arguments denying persecution of journalists, to be pure bs !!
LOL, the LIAR is calling me a “turnip”!
@61 You would do well to stop trying to moderate the board.
Feb 16th, 2014 - 10:08 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You are clearly passionate about one subject, something I have already commented on, but you won't convince anyone of anything by insulting people because they do not adhere to your strict agenda. If you think about it, your actions are rather ironic. We cannot comment unless we say what you want us to say. Think carefully about that.
Anyone wish to discuss this?
Feb 16th, 2014 - 10:15 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“Brazil, the most dangerous country for Latam journalists, according to RSF”
and how it might affect
a) how the rest of the world keeps itself informed?
b) how this affects the Brazilian population?
c) repercussions for the World Cup?future Olympics
d) future global trade to/from Brazil?
e) the political direction of Lat Am?
f) if other Lat Am Governments of similar ideological persuasion will take note?
Feel free to discuss....
Anyone?
......
.....
,,,,,
no?
oh, well, there are many other sites that are less devoted to personal mud-slinging
Where are Isolde and ElaineB to bring a little sense and sensibility when needed?
love to all....
@66 I just did. Calm down and your words will be much more effective.
Feb 16th, 2014 - 10:18 pm - Link - Report abuse 065 ElaineB
Feb 16th, 2014 - 10:18 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Well worth noting, Elaine.
However, he is right in that we have to be careful not to be deliberately diverted.
I do appreciate it though, when CD holds Thinks feet to the fire.
@61 You would do well to stop trying to moderate the board.
Feb 16th, 2014 - 10:21 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You are clearly compulsive about one subject, something I couldn't care to comment on, but you won't convince anyone of anything by insulting people because they do not adhere to your strict agenda. If you “Think” about it, your actions are rather ironic. We cannot comment unless we say what you want us to say. “Think” carefully about that.
Sorry I just had to burry a pet... Not nice
Feb 16th, 2014 - 10:42 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Think
No they are not you idiot those are the federal funds transfers your bloody scumbag province receives!!! Other thing is the investments in public infrastructure… You know those ones that say “Aqui la Nacion tambien crece”..Errr Obra publica??
Surely it must be Austral Construcciones S.A of Lazaro Baez down in Chubut too!!
But hey let’s not forget you guys are the least transparent provinces… But don’t worry you want to make us believe that you are the Scandinavia of Argentina…Geeez what a joke!
http://www.lanacion.com.ar/1355288-las-provincias-mas-transparentes-en-materia-presupuestaria
64
Feb 16th, 2014 - 10:46 pm - Link - Report abuse 0troy
“I can't speak for all of the Islanders, but most people have no beef with the citizens of Argentina.
However, the criminals and thieves that are your government, the Trolls like Think and Stevie who support them, and the Mud-slinging mindless infants like yourself and Toby, are callous lying, propagandists.”
thought you were canadian. now you are the representative of the islanders?
it is funny cause 99.99% of the comments here, except #38, are always treating the argentines (the people, not the politicians) as thieves, corrupt, dishonest, etc.
when someone uses the same logic / arguments with you based on stereotypes, your response is even worse / funnier, such as: let´s nuke them, let´s use those argies as targets, etc.
as far as i know none of the argies here have never had a warmonger discourse, threatening with killing people, etc.
so, honestly, the one who is full of sh*t is you.
Comment removed by the editor.
Feb 16th, 2014 - 10:55 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@68 Anyone who has been around for a while is well aware of the diversionary tactics of certain folks when faced with the indefensible. However, I see no problem with people engaging in debate that wanders off topic. The rules of the board do not demand that we stay on topic, just that we remain within the bounds of decency.
Feb 16th, 2014 - 11:00 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Anyone that doesn't like it can skip the off topic posts and continue to comment on topic. Trying to control everyone on a message board is like herding cats.
Think, one day you will surprise us all by posting something original.
73)
Feb 16th, 2014 - 11:09 pm - Link - Report abuse 0First of all it’s a very monothematic site
The actual topics of these site are always Malvinas/Falklands and Argentinas economic decline and rants against CFK but also to Argentines too.
I often aboard uncomfortable topics for other users here and earn myself many enemies in the process..
@68 Anyone who has been around for a while is well aware of the diversionary tactics of certain folks when faced with the indefensible. However, I see no problem with people engaging in debate that wanders off topic. The rules of the board do not demand that we stay on topic, just that we remain within the bounds of decency.
Feb 16th, 2014 - 11:26 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Anyone that doesn't like it can skip the off topic posts and continue to comment on topic. Trying to control everyone on a message board is like herding cats.
Elaine, one day you will surprise us all by posting something original.
Paulo,
Feb 16th, 2014 - 11:34 pm - Link - Report abuse 0show me where I have ever made comments like “let's nuke' em”.
You can't, there are none.
No, I do NOT speak for the Islanders, idiot.
I said, “ I can't speak for all of the Islanders... ”
And regarding the other posters, I did say, “ ...most people... ”.
We certainly DO NOT condone the words or sentiments of “Conqueror” - mad as a hatter.
We are individuals here, and I expect that many know each other in their community.
As to “Argie” posters, you, Nostrils, Think, Marcos, Vestige, Dany Berger, Islas Malvinas, Sussie (ron57, cl177, etc etc) Pirat-Hunter, Stevie, and others, have consistently posted lies, propaganda, half-truths, accusations, links to the same and IN SOME CASES, direct threats to the Islanders.
“Sussie” even threatened to kill Isolde's children in very graphic terms.
Some “Argie” posters have proven to be just “sock puppets” of Think, and there is evidence that many of the others are too, or at least, are NOT who they say they are. In other words, professional Trolls. Like you and Toby, most of their posts appear to be politically biased and easily refuted.
However, La Campora knows full well that if they repeat a lie consistently enough, without being challenged, it will eventually be accepted as the truth.
That's what they count on.
Argentina's version of Fslklands history has been dis-proven.
Argentina's accounts of the Fslkland's War in 82, have been dis-proven
Argentina's attempts to discredit the Falklsnds Referendum last year, has been thwarted.
Argentina's attempts to have the Islanders ignored as sub-human and their UN rights to SELF-DETERMINATION disregarded, have been exposed.
Those goals of Argentina ( the government of) and La Campora, have been either defeated or exposed.
Many of the “Argie” Trolls on MP have been working towards the La Campora agenda. It's very obvious.
As to you, being generous, you are an ignorant patriotic dupe who has been betrayed by his teachers and the Argentine Education system.
thank you Elaine for your thoughtful comments, I have taken them seriously.
Feb 16th, 2014 - 11:39 pm - Link - Report abuse 0However, I must agree with @74 CD2 that all threads seem to be constantly dragged back to the endless circle of Falklands/Malvinas - UK/Argentine bitching. Something that I myself have been involved in previously I must admit!
Obviously my focus is Venezuela and the insidious spread of so-called 'Bolivarian' political thought, and the economic repercussions. That said I do have a strong interest in Argentina, Chile and the continent as a whole. I wish merely to engage, learn, discuss and debate whilst of course, promoting my own (anti-Chavista) agenda.
Which, as you can see, I am open about!
Meanwhile;
Anyone wish to discuss this?
“Brazil, the most dangerous country for Latam journalists, according to RSF”
....
:-)
77
Feb 16th, 2014 - 11:59 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I don’t have any real opinion on the matter, for I don’t understand how this ranking is made. Only an observation; Argentina has Clarin and a handful of private media left and Venezuela is entirely co-opted by the regime. I think that once you work for the public or a private media firm who is friendly towards the government how is this risk foe reporters measured???
CFK yesterday prized a presenter of a news network which belongs to the gov’t who doesn’t cover politics, economics, security nor serious stuff. She simply liked him because she found him cool.
http://www.lanacion.com.ar/1664532-la-presidenta-elogio-a-un-cronista-de-c5n-por-su-buena-onda
@77 I have already commented on this. The BBC ran a long item on the violence in Brazil and it is something we are aware of in the UK. This weekend there was another fairly long item on the violence in Venezuela. The BBC - especially the World Service - reaches far more people than this news site.
Feb 17th, 2014 - 12:00 am - Link - Report abuse 0This particular news agency does focus on The Falklands and Argentina so obviously it attracts people that are interested in discussing those topics. You don't seem to be aware that there has been a sustained and persistent campaign by the Kirchnerite governments to act aggressively towards the Falkland Islanders throughout their terms in office: it is a very current and important topic for discussion.
If you stay around long enough you will hear a lot of discussion about the Bolivarian failed revolution and the subsequent disastrous situations the people of those countries now face. There have been many long and lively debates about Venezuela and the lethal legacy of Chavez.
You are new and most welcome but don't think that what you are saying has not been said before. If you stick around you will find many people share your concerns but it is not necessarily new information. Don't be disheartened and keep pushing your agenda. : )
79
Feb 17th, 2014 - 12:15 am - Link - Report abuse 0Yes but some conversations of none related articles of Argentina nor the islands have being often interrupted with these same subjects when there is plenty of trending articles at the time about those same matters.
A famous quotation of Winston Churchill about fanatics rings a bell…
Firstly, the US and Britain not on top 20 with Costa Rica and Uruguay ranking higher than them and Chile? BULLSHIT. Also, I'm not saying we are well off in Brazil, but worse than Ecuador, Venezuela and Colombia for journalists? We can't even be sure Peru, Bolivia, Paraguay and specially Central Americans are reporting something. In Brazil, a lot of our criminals has the “decency” to build their paradise in their city states aka favelas. In Colombia they maybe have drug lords to live right next to Juanes or Shakira's vacation mansion. We are not more fucked up than that. On pair, maybe. My bet is some Central American country to be the worse in Latin America. For journalists and whatelse. It's a nightmare.
Feb 17th, 2014 - 12:18 am - Link - Report abuse 081
Feb 17th, 2014 - 12:25 am - Link - Report abuse 0Cant help noticing Namibia is more free tan Australia, Spain and France.
I'm glad I'm not one of those Trolls that diverts topics....have I ever been known to be off topic.....
Feb 17th, 2014 - 12:35 am - Link - Report abuse 0Did you see that EU slug Barroso saying it would be difficult if not impossible for an Independent Scotland to join the EU.....
Thank you Elaine and CD2. I maybe new here but I have every right to get fed-up with troll b*llshit as anyone else.
Feb 17th, 2014 - 12:41 am - Link - Report abuse 0I just choose to express my discontent rather than get involved in circular arguments about the FIs (something I note ElaineB also rarely engages in! something I try to emulate...).
Although I may not be bringing any new arguments, I do try to bring current topics to the forefront with, I hope, are interesting links (for which I have been thanked on occasion, if you would care to check any VZ topics).
Not here to justify myself, so will just stick to my agenda (!) favorite topics and try not to be such a 'moderator' heehee!
But honestly guys, while I firmly believe in freedom of speech, going off topic for multiple posts is well, kinda dull... well, whilst I'm scrolling down for, like, ever! (joke!)
I might even come back with a new screen name MODERATOR, just for laughs..........
Meanwhile;
Anyone wish to discuss this?
“Brazil, the most dangerous country for Latam journalists, according to RSF”
....
:-) jejjeje!
“Brazil, the most dangerous country for Latam journalists, according to RSF”
Feb 17th, 2014 - 12:49 am - Link - Report abuse 0...my advice for journalists is...avoid it, it's safer.........Doh!
or get a proper job or a safer one...or do what Mercopress does....copy and paste...
JMO
Feb 17th, 2014 - 12:52 am - Link - Report abuse 0A good incentive for good and original and more variety of comments will be that MP opens a voting system for them.
troy
Feb 17th, 2014 - 01:00 am - Link - Report abuse 0the saddest thing about this, is that you don't know too much about argentina.
in fact you don´t know anything.
and yet you insist in posting bullsh*t only based in stereotypes.
so, when someone refutes your poor arguments, it is not for being patriotic, or the other idiocies you think we are.
it is just a question to teach you how the things really are.
it would be a lot easier if you were a bit more educated, but i´m afraid it is too late for that now.
@CabezaDura And second to the map, Mexico is actually the worse with Argentina ranking higher than Chile. Misleading article and foolish study.
Feb 17th, 2014 - 01:10 am - Link - Report abuse 0Just go on, everyone...
yawn...
Feb 17th, 2014 - 01:17 am - Link - Report abuse 0(83) A_Voice
Feb 17th, 2014 - 02:32 am - Link - Report abuse 0Not surprising, really....
The man is just following orders from his bosses, Goldman Sachs & Co.
Remember......:
Vote Y E S
Hmmmm
Feb 17th, 2014 - 02:45 am - Link - Report abuse 0Maybe Chubut & Santa Cruz can apply to join a new and independent Scotland.. After all both pretend they are Scandinavian countries (paid by others of course).
Well, here is someting for you Argentine-fixated people
Feb 17th, 2014 - 03:32 am - Link - Report abuse 0Argentina, A Parable
http://www.economist.com/news/leaders/21596515-there-are-lessons-many-governments-one-countrys-100-years-decline-parable?
And now for the true irony.. (sounds familiar?)
the so-called 'Bolivarian Revolution'.
Which in my opinion besmirches the name of a once great man who freed slaves, emancipated the indigenous and liberated much of Latin America from despots and rule by caudillos!
Bolivar’s most famous quote is from 1830, regarding ‘Latin’ America, as he surveyed the wreckage of his dream. As self-assessments go, it is not very positive:
‘I have ruled for 20 years and from these I have gained only a few certainties:
[Latin] America is ungovernable, for us;
Those who serve a revolution plough the sea;
The only thing one can do in [Latin] America is emigrate;
This country will fall inevitably into the hands of the unbridled masses and then pass almost imperceptibly into the hands of petty tyrants, of all colours and races;
Once we have been devoured by every crime and extinguished by utter ferocity, the Europeans will not even regard us as worth conquering;
If it were possible for any part of the world to revert to primitive chaos, it would be [Latin] America in its final hour.’
See; John Lynch, Simon Bolivar: A Life (Yale University Press, 2006)
A very well-respected academic (http://www.economist.com/news/leaders/21596515-there-are-lessons-many-governments-one-countrys-100-years-decline-parable? who has written many excellent, globally-respected texts on Latin America.
ahh... the echoes of History, to understand our present, we must know the past, in order to plan for the future....
87 Paul
Feb 17th, 2014 - 03:55 am - Link - Report abuse 0Paul,
You are relatively new here. That is not to say that you are not entitled to post.
However, you arrived with no idea what events and conversations went on before.
There was/is a definite disinformation campaign from the Argentine government in public news articles, to cast doubt on British ownership of the Falklands and promote Argentinas claims to sovereignty.
Official Argentine statements were propaganda statements designed to undermine the Falklands politically as they were undermining the Islands economy with a blockade.
Online discussion and debate about the Falklands was disrupted by Argentine Trolls, believed to be run by La Campora's propaganda machine.
This usually included volatile insulting ethnic slurs or political attacks on the British, not to mention de-humanising the Falkland people to de-sensitising the audience to disregarding their wishes.
This was complemented by ongoing petitioning to the UN for a resolution to have the UK “de-militarise” the Islands and hand them over to Argentina.
This was a long shot, but it always played well politically in Argentina, as you know.
As the Referendum was announced, the Referendum question discussed, it became clear that the doubt of their status would be eliminated.
Politically engineered stunts and supposed provocations by Falklanders against Argentina, etc, devised to stir up resentment and international criticism of the Brits.
As things escalated, all sorts of false arguments, accusations, racial and ethnic slurs against the UK, Falklanders, and Brit posters on this forum increased dramatically.
In the process, it was refuted successfully and the real story of the Falklands received much more attention.
Then you arrived a year later, immediately spouting the same old lame cliches and nonsense, we all recognise as so much claptrap and half truths of the uneducated.
Most of us have stated several times that we understand it is generated by your government and not the people.
@ paul
Feb 17th, 2014 - 04:41 am - Link - Report abuse 0What troy states in the post above shouldn't come as a surprise to you. If you have ever posted or read the comments sections of Argentine newspapers, you would see these “Reichsministerium für Propaganda” tactics applied to all sort of subjects not just the Falklands issue alone.
Personal attacks to individual posters coming from fake Facebook or twitter profiles and usually followed by copy & pasted lies. Sounds familiar?
#91
Feb 17th, 2014 - 11:14 am - Link - Report abuse 0Thank you for your gracious offer but NO THANKS !
@84 Sure, be passionate and post whatever you like. I was just cautioning against assuming people do not care about the issue when they have commented extensively in the past and may not think they have anything new to add in this thread.
Feb 17th, 2014 - 12:22 pm - Link - Report abuse 0There is a new thread regarding Venezuela that should give you another platform. :)
@86 Voting on what? This is a news agency posting items of interest to the people that come here. Far more read than contribute to the comments section. And online polls are never really very trustworthy especially on an loosely regulated site like this. JMO
96
Feb 17th, 2014 - 01:56 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Where did I talk of opinion polls??
Obviously I was meaning voting thumbs up or down for comments like La Nacion, El Pais or other news sites have. I’m actually offering solutions and ideas for what was mentioned here in this thread.
@97 Ahhh, I misunderstood. You mean a 'like' or 'dislike' button?
Feb 17th, 2014 - 02:01 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I am not really sure what it would achieve but an interesting idea.
CD
Feb 17th, 2014 - 02:47 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“I’m actually offering solutions and ideas for what was mentioned here in this thread.”
Yeah great solutions and ideas.....like @91
”After all both pretend they are Scandinavian countries (paid by others of course).”
In what way is Scotland pretending to be a Scandinavian country...?
The only real presence of people believing themselves to be Scandinavian is in the Isles...Shetland and Orkney....
As for paid by others.....
If the UK hadn't had total control of the oil boom, how wealthy do you think Scotland would have been with only a small population...?
....like and dislike...what do you think this forum is...a popularity platform?
I am not Ilsen. I personally don't give a toss whether people like...agree...disagree with what I say....
Nor...unlike Ilsen am I here to impress others with my fanatical knowledge of one subject or topic....
Do you feel the need to be liked or congratulated on your posts...?
We are most amused, lol!
Feb 17th, 2014 - 03:29 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I don’t think that much. Perhaps It would have being anther Azerbaijan with a bunch of oil oligarchs. The North Sea & Brent oil and gas deposits were discovered in the 1970s and its offshore, if Scotland would have being independent back then, the international Price of crude during was at its peak during the 1970s-1980s-1990s?? U$S 40-60 per barrel?? During most of the 1990s and the 1980s the price was pretty much lower and stable than the 2000s.
Feb 17th, 2014 - 04:15 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Scotland’s First Minister was a buffoon for promising his entire political career what he can’t deliver, the idea that independent Scotland could be a Persian Gulf State but live with Scandinavian standards at the same time is inadmissible from reality.
If you want to be truly free you will have to be prepared to be poorer, at the end of the day Scotland is too comfortable and secure as it is to go independent… Salmond should have hired the turco Asis to teach him how Real politics work. And MAS should walk away from the Scottish referendum disaster as fast as it can because it can be fatal for their own future proyect of a independent Catalonia too.
And no, I don’t care what people think of my comments. And you should know this well by now. What I do want is a better quality, more original and more diverse in topics comments rather than always the usual Malvinas/Falklands or Argentina vs UK bitching. I think a little bit of competition might be the solution.
@101 As I am sure you know, newspapers/agencies give their readers what they want. (More hits = more advertising revenue). If the items about The Falklands and Argentina get the most attention/comments, they will post more stories on those topics.
Feb 17th, 2014 - 04:38 pm - Link - Report abuse 0If you want more diversity you could get discussions going on other threads. Just a suggestion.
102)
Feb 17th, 2014 - 04:58 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Yes but with that environment you might scare off any possible moderates who may contribute on the other topics. I would like to see MP elevate more news and well insighted articles about security and strategic topics like Cartel wars, trafficking, crime, white glove crime, arms purchases, focus of instability, etc. Those might work well
CD
Feb 17th, 2014 - 05:45 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You really do read too much UK propaganda...
Scotland has a higher GDP per capita and larger GVA per capita output than England, Wales, Northern Ireland and the United Kingdom as a whole when revenues from North Sea oil and gas are taken into account.
Higher than Spain
Higher than Argentina
Higher than Brazil
Not that far behind the USA.....
...besides England can't stop Scotland using the pound, any country can use it...they are merely stating no monetary union....
Norway are not in the EU....hasn't harmed them....
Don't be fooled England are bluffing to sway the undecided vote.....
They have made a mistake allowing Scotland a referendum....how long before Sinn Féin demand a referendum....then Wales.
The break up of the Un-United Kingdom.....
They should have played the Territorial Integrity card...but they couldn't after playing the Self Determination card with Falkland and Gibraltar.....
...Gun...Foot...Shoot.....
104
Feb 17th, 2014 - 06:11 pm - Link - Report abuse 0No, I happen to know a fair amount of common sence economics... Scotland’s oil fields are depleting while there is going to be south of the border a huge rush from a shale boom.
Scottish GDP per capita is certainly not higher than London and the South East of England even adding the oil.
LOL I see what you mean by Scotland keeping the pound…Argentina can use the US dollar, but it has no control over the monetary policy of it dummy boy!!
Anyway the UK is one of the most indebted countries of the world, I don’t understand the desire for retaining the pound
Scotland should have its own crypto currency like Iceland is trying to put in place.
If I were you I would leave Scotland and start buying land in the North of England or shares of the companies who have licenses there.
#23
Feb 17th, 2014 - 06:27 pm - Link - Report abuse 0the most dangerous countries for journalists, are those where you can find uk or us troops.
How observant of you. How long did it take to formulate the thought that it is more dangerous to be in a war zone than reporting on political rallies !
104 A_Voice
Feb 17th, 2014 - 06:39 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Scotland has a higher GDP per capita and larger GVA per capita output than England, Wales, Northern Ireland and the United Kingdom as a whole when revenues from North Sea oil and gas are taken into account.
…………..
Now this is just my humble opinion,
1, if Scotland was this rich/powerful,
Then would it not be better for all concern to abolish great Britain, rep-Ireland , and Wales,
And all apply to join a united Scotland, so Scotland would be the only country on this island ?
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
2,
I put it to you,
The owners of this magical oil and gas, is in fact the companies that own them,
Less any government shares,
All the government get//or Scotland would get, is the revenue from tax,
And if im right this amounts to abt 90%,
Please feel free to correct me,
If this is so,
Then united,// Scotland’s share of the national wealth will go up, as with Wales England and Ireland,
But alone, the revenue / taxes from the oil and gas, will slowly but surely run down and them out,
So her income will in fact go down, and down,
This is just my humble opinion, and may well be wrong..
Thanks.
.
105
Feb 17th, 2014 - 06:40 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“Scottish GDP per capita is certainly not higher than London and the South East of England even adding the oil.”
Do you think so.....
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_Scotland
Scotland can use remaining oil reserves to fund Hydro development also further reserves have been found... like Cladhan field development....
Perhaps the North of England should have a vote too and go with Scotland they have after all been subject to Southern disdain the same as Scotland.....
108
Feb 17th, 2014 - 06:56 pm - Link - Report abuse 0It isn’t. Kent & London pretty much fund the rest of the UK. They are the only regions who run a surplus in the whole country.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yqGGriEJac8
Maybe Scotland’s GDP is higher than England, Wales and N. Ireland as nations itself. But Scotland is running a 10% deficit to the UK.
So it doesnt matter if your GDP is higher if its mostly driven by consumptions of imports and State spending.
Although at the moment the north Ireland and north England are even more subsidized. It’s like Cordoba and Santa Fe having to provide for inefficient provinces like Formosa, Chaco, Chubut and Santa Cruz.
109
Feb 17th, 2014 - 07:18 pm - Link - Report abuse 0What a ridiculous point....are Kent and London the UK...?
So now it's changed from...
“Scottish GDP per capita is certainly not higher than London and the South East of England even adding the oil.”
to...
“Maybe Scotland’s GDP is higher than England, Wales and N. Ireland as nations itself. ”
GDP per capita of Argentina......$11,601
GDP per capita of UK.....$38,514.46
GDP per capita of Scotland....$46,887
There would be no deficit to the UK if Scotland was Independent......
110
Feb 17th, 2014 - 07:30 pm - Link - Report abuse 0No, I’m answering to the point you had made earlier on...Scotland would have a higher GDP than say Wales or N. England and N.Ireland which has no oil but its inferior to the average GDP of Londoners. Now if you take out of the equation Scotland and leave N.England+N.Ireland+Wales what London and Kent provide isn't enough to cover up the difference with a independent Scotland, but its a mute point from the beginning.
The graphs of the lady say everything that really matters about the economic subject in a very clear matter.
But look if you want to be independent and live there fine vote independence by all means. If that is what the ppl want but feelings and economics are two complete different things
111
Feb 17th, 2014 - 07:45 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You should have watched the whole of the link...when you figure in oil it drops to 0% deficit.....
We were never talking about GDP...we were talking about GDP per capita....
Take which ever country you like England..Wales etc..
Scotland only has a population of 5 million....
It's GDP per capita is higher....
Norway only has a population of 5 million too.....
It invested it's oil reserves.....Scotland never had the opportunity....
It has huge potential in renewables....it has 35,000 sq miles of mountains and lochs...a third of the size of the UK...
It's hydro Electricity is sold on the grid to Europe at peak prices, then it buys cheap off peak Electricity to pump it back into the dams at night....
A lot of potential...Scotland would do OK....
Indeed they would....
Feb 17th, 2014 - 07:58 pm - Link - Report abuse 0No, she says all that needs to be said from 0:30 to 0:50. Its 10% déficit considering already the oil revenues. Its not me that’s making the numbers out of the air. She later on says she has taken them from the Aberdeen University.
Feb 17th, 2014 - 08:03 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Sure it may have a lot of potential but the GDP argument is one you have lost.
114
Feb 17th, 2014 - 08:14 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I'm dismayed....I have already proved that Scottish GDP per capita is higher than England's and higher than the UK's
So on the GDP per capita argument....you lost.....
You can't win them all....
I'm surprised you accept an ENGLISH journalists summary.....tut tut....
Do you believe all UK propaganda...?
Britain...the benevolent entity that didn't rise to power through...slavery...conquest...the displacement and deaths of millions...
It doesn't really keep a military base thousands of miles away as a stepping stone for it's Antarctic and South Georgia interests at all!!...;-)))
How dare you insinuate such things about them Sassenachs!
Feb 17th, 2014 - 08:19 pm - Link - Report abuse 0115
Feb 17th, 2014 - 08:25 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Ohhh whatever have it your one way; Scotland is the best, Scotland will be just fine, they are the Germans of UK surely, the UK is going to be dissembled into 6 pieces etc. I don’t care Im only saying the economics are not there… I want to have the same sort of argument about the Argentine centralist state and its tax system. Why there are provinces more benefited and others have to be robbed??? Why can’t we have the same sort of clear info and professionalism and objectivity about it than the lady in the video that explains who things exactly are but for the Argentine case??
I’m also more intrigued and completely fascinated in the China vs US topic not Scotland independence which is a false positive. Something far more interesting by far with many but many variables to take into account.
Yep that's me...tell it like it is.....
Feb 17th, 2014 - 08:27 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I'm surprised at CD.....what a sucker....
BTW. CD watch the link again...the whole basis of her lecture was NOT including oil revenue from Scotland....
Quite simply because Scotland doesn't get it...the UK does.....
He did the very same thing in a “discussion” with me about Argentina's economy.....
Feb 17th, 2014 - 08:34 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The whole basis of his argument was NOT to include the oil revenue from my bonnie Province of Chubut in his calculations....
Quite simply because Chubut doesn't get it... Argentina does.....
Quite frankly I'm just surprised that CD believes England...period!
Feb 17th, 2014 - 08:38 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I thought he was smarter than that......
I had a brother in law like him once.....
Feb 17th, 2014 - 08:46 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Very smart guy on a few, very specific topics....
A true lower primate on most other aspects of life....
Where is Irene??
Feb 17th, 2014 - 09:02 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Well guys, isn’t that an edifying spectacle, the Lunatic Think and his little sock puppet A_Voice, the wanabe Scot of indistinct nationality, having a little chat together?
Feb 17th, 2014 - 09:21 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Ahhh.
103 CD
Feb 17th, 2014 - 09:42 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“Think” and his sock puppet alter-ego, “A_Voice” have diverted this thread
OFF - TOPIC.
They will goad and bait you to get a response - anything to curtail serious debate and exchange of information about Argentina and her South American allies.
Best just to expose “A-VoiceofThink” as an OFF-TOPIC Troll and forget about 'im.
Bla bla bla
Feb 17th, 2014 - 11:06 pm - Link - Report abuse 0”In 2011-12, Scotland’s estimated net fiscal balance was a deficit of £18.2 billion (14.6% of GDP) when excluding North Sea revenue, a deficit of £17.2 billion (13.5% of GDP) when including a per capita share of North Sea revenue or a deficit of £7.6 billion (5.0% of GDP) when a geographical share of North Sea revenue is included.”
Source
SCOTTISH GOVERNMENT
http://www.scotland.gov.uk/Publications/2013/03/1859
And I will rest my case about the Scottish Independence economics with this last vid which is produced by the English London yuppie magazine The Economist but is sourced on the Scottish gov't
A independent Scotland would be 14 Billion pounds short in a decrease of the Price of oil by half (which might very well be the case in this year)
http://www.scotland.gov.uk/Publications/2013/03/1859
At least the Scots are honest about it. Not the same can be said about Chew Butt rubbish accounts and rubbish papers ...
Argentina has some of the slowest clocked internet on the planet. How does one post a reply back and forth like they're on a chat wehn
Feb 17th, 2014 - 11:37 pm - Link - Report abuse 0One in Scotland an the other in the as* end of nowhere?
Hmmm odd that.
Argentina is coming out with a $500 peso note.
Who said that would happen this year?
Who was it?
I forget
bahahahahaha
125
Feb 18th, 2014 - 12:43 am - Link - Report abuse 0Blah Blah.......playing with figures....
You missed...that the deficit included a UK share of debt interest payments based on per capita...that is 45 billion for the whole of UK so 4.5 Billion for Scotland....
No monetary union ...no debt....
So take 4.5 billion off the 7.6 billion deficit......
Now compare that to the UK without Scotland....
There deficit was 120 Billion including 100% revenue from north sea oil...
Take off the North Sea revenue and add the 45 billion debt interest payments...
120 Billion plus 4.5 Billion plus 11 Billion..(from oil..that they won't have)
UK Deficit....135.5 Billion
Scotland deficit...3.1 Billion
Which would be the healthier Nation...?
What do you mean a decrease by half.....Is oil going to decrease by 50% per barrel.....Yippee......I can keep the 4x4...;-)
127 numptyThinkVoice
Feb 18th, 2014 - 01:06 am - Link - Report abuse 0“No monetary union ...no debt.... ”
same debt, different currency.
BTW,
You are OFF TOPIC, Troll
WTF are you talking about.....no monetary union.....no obligation to share UK debt...therefore no UK debt....Numbskull.....
Feb 18th, 2014 - 01:15 am - Link - Report abuse 0Voice
Feb 18th, 2014 - 01:28 am - Link - Report abuse 0“You missed...that the deficit included a UK share of debt interest payments based on per capita...that is 45 billion for the whole of UK so 4.5 Billion for Scotland....
No monetary union ...no debt....”
I really doubt the rest of the UK will accept paying over again what you have already indebted them with. It doesn’t work like that... What currency will Scotland pay back Westminster (you have to buy Euros or dollars to pay the British)?? Would they accept the new Scottish currency of their own, (because it wont be Euros nor pounds what new Scotland gets) ??
So you are running already a £7,6 billion déficit in the most optimist of cases with what your own government considers the geographical share that it receives, and facing God knows what bill from London, so where will the money come from for all the investments on the infrastructure and minimal bureaucracy that a new independent country needs?
Army ??
Intel Agency??
Coast and air patrol?
I'm not saying Scotland cant do neither of this but... The economics are challenging and a long shot considering the relative position of comfort and security Scotland already has. I don’t see how the people would vote a Yes, in all objectivity I say this.
If Salmond would have presented his case in a different way and being honest about the fact that an independent Scotland’s is not a free lunch and based his campaign on emotional and Scottish patriotism instead of lies and grand ideas it might be a different outcome. But you have to understand politics which is not being a salesman, contrary to what many believe.
You are talking through your arse if you think not will work that way.
Feb 18th, 2014 - 01:28 am - Link - Report abuse 0You must be stupid - a child's wishful thinking.
Off to bed now, and suck on your... dummy.
I had to scroll all the way up to the start of this thread to find out what the discussion was about. I thought it was about journalists in Brazil ! How did it get hijacked ?
Feb 18th, 2014 - 10:36 am - Link - Report abuse 0130 CD
Feb 18th, 2014 - 01:19 pm - Link - Report abuse 0My comment @131
was directed towards A-voice @ 129, not you - just to be clear.
Yes, Clyde,
effective trolling by Think/Voice
How did it get hijacked ?
Feb 18th, 2014 - 06:50 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Argy blogger high jacked it, to suit their conspiracy theory,
Perhaps they want brazil to join the fray..
Just a magnetic thought .lol
.
Hey Briton...it was me that hijacked it @83...
Feb 18th, 2014 - 08:07 pm - Link - Report abuse 0In an attempt to annoy Ilsen..thinking he can Moderate the board....
I'm a newbie. but he's more of a newbie than me...the cheek of it...
Worked a treat...doncha think...;-)))
......his voice got lost in the wind.....
I'm glad I'm not one of those Trolls that diverts topics
Feb 18th, 2014 - 08:34 pm - Link - Report abuse 0mmmmmmyes it was .lol
I thought you had been here much longer than Ilsen,
The English are not well liked in Brazil. So, I suspect, English journalists will be targeted and I imagine a number will be wasted during the World Cup.
Feb 19th, 2014 - 02:15 am - Link - Report abuse 0Brazil is no country for pussies. I think English journalist should stay at home.
So you miss me do you little trolls?
Feb 19th, 2014 - 09:07 am - Link - Report abuse 0I have been far to busy on social media promoting freedom and justice for venezuela.
no time for your pathetic off topic squabbles
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