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Argentina/Brazil diplomatic incident almost triggers another Mercosur stall

Monday, February 17th 2014 - 07:49 UTC
Full article 42 comments

In what was described as a “shameful incident”, Brazil had to retract from statements made by one of its diplomats, a condition demanded by Argentina to continue negotiations for a Mercosur common tariffs reduction proposal which was taking place in Caracas. The incident occurred last week but only came to light over the weekend. Read full article

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  • toxictaxitrader2

    Telling the the truth will always cause trouble with Argentina.
    They are not used to it.!!

    Feb 17th, 2014 - 08:03 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Be serious

    More evidence that Trade Blocs are a complete disaster. If sovereign states were allowed to negotiate their own deals the World would be wealthier and happier.

    Feb 17th, 2014 - 08:53 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Anglotino

    @2 Be Serious

    What are you talking about?

    Sovereign states are able to negotiate their own trade deals. The fact that they decide to group together in trade blocs is their choice. Not all trade blocs are disasters. Just some like Mercosur.

    As for Brazil's voiced concern, seems Argentina pulled its finger out on February 12/13th just afterwards. Perhaps it is finally seeing the writing on the wall and picking up on the hints eminating out of all Mercosur members other than Venezuela.

    Anemic Mercosur.
    Vigorous Pacific Alliance.

    Seems to sum up the two LatAm trade blocs.

    Feb 17th, 2014 - 09:19 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Be serious

    Getting agreement in any artificial trade bloc like the EU and Mercosur is like herding cats. It's a waste of time and Money. Break the Blocs up and sack the snivelling bureaucrats that run them.

    Feb 17th, 2014 - 09:42 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • LEPRecon

    Brazil should just b!tch slap Argentina, tell them to shut the feck up, and remind them who is the real power in South America, economically and militararily.

    Argentina is finished anway, they'll disappear up their own hoop, and whilst they're flailing around looking for a way out of the hole that they've dug themselves into, Brazil should just get the hell out of Mercosur and make friendly noises towards the Pacific Alliance.

    And if Brazil goes the others will follow, leaving Argentina and their bestest friend Venezuela, to wallow in their own failure.

    Feb 17th, 2014 - 09:56 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • zathras

    “Ambassador Machado...replied that Mercosur negotiations were complicated since although Brazil, Uruguay and Paraguay, were working harmoniously, the same could not be said of Argentina, which seemed to be torpedoing the meetings.”

    Rather surprising as I thought it was Argentinian flagged warships that get hit by torpedoes, while in a combat zone.

    Actually trade blocks can be a good thing. Being able to negotiate in one-go to import/export to say the whole EU rather than each individual country (28 states with 24 languages, and a population of over 1/2 Billion people) saves an awful lot of time.
    Plus it allows the trade block to stand up to the larger countries such as the US (300 Million people) or China (1.4 Billion people) on an equal footing.
    I'm not saying trading blocks are perfect.
    But they are the least worst solution.

    Of course what is to stop Brazil, Uruguay and Paraguay agreeing to talk to the EU while Argentina is excluded from the negotiations. Then agree to trade between those 3 counties alone (excluding Argentina) with the EU.

    Feb 17th, 2014 - 12:04 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • yankeeboy

    Brazil is desperate for a deal with the EU and Argentina is an anchor around its neck.
    I've said for a long time I think Brazil will go at this alone and leave Arg in the dust.
    Its against the MS rules so Arg Ven etc will have to just ignore the infraction or watch MS collapse.
    We should see this roll out pretty quickly.

    Argentina has no free cash reserves left. They can only import the bare necessities. They are in Stagflation and business is grinding to a halt.

    Hyperinflation is the next hurdle.
    I wonder when it will start?

    Feb 17th, 2014 - 12:10 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Conqueror

    @4 The EU isn't really a “trade bloc”. Trade is just an excuse. The EU is just a bunch of thieving bureaucrats and their minionswith delusions of grandeur. On this particular subject, EU/mercosur, look back a while and see the EU member states that are opposed to it. One has to question how something can be called a “bloc” when members are dragged, willy-nilly, into agreements that they don't want. Mercosur is really irrelevant in this. It's just a little bunch of backward latam states trying any way they can to save themselves from ruin. For “the EU”, it has lost track of certain facts. To scale it down, imagine a “club” where all the “members” stop paying subscriptions and fail to turn up at meetings. Throughout the EU, ordinary people are already starting to question its “right” to order their lives in minute detail, to take their money and give them little or nothing in return, to fine their own sovereign states for acting in accordance with the wishes of their own citizens. And, in the case of Britain, people are starting to ask why a nation that started a war, irrespective of any subsequent “change of heart”, together with a nation that folded in less than a year are “leading” in preference to the nation that fought on and saved the world. Never mind the Americans and the Russians. Neither were interested in “the world”. Had they been, why did the Russians start off allied to Hitler? Why did the Americans wait 3 years? I expect that Britain will have to stand up and save the Continent again. Thank heavens we aren't “Europeans”. Britons WILL get our country back. And then the world will find out why it is properly called GREAT Britain. We've been knocked back before. Got back up and WON!

    Feb 17th, 2014 - 01:22 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • CabezaDura2

    Argentina is right in the sense… Brazil is bitching against Argentine protectionism behinds its back yet at the same time it politically upholds the governments of Venezuela and Argentina politically. They
    ultimately profess the same ideology and rhetoric.

    Not so long ago in the CELAC summit the Snake of Argentina and the Pig of Brazil were hugging and kissing for the photographers and state& friendly journalists to run back at home that there is no problems in between them.

    So if Brazil really meant the whole thing it would walk out of Mercosur in a second and sing its own FTA with the EU. Nobody in Argentina really cares about this FTA agreement with the EU or at least sees a life savior in it for the incoming crisis.

    The heart of the question is Brazil clearly wants to keep Mercosur for political reasons not economic reasons, Argentina doesn’t want to abide by its rules of trade.

    Feb 17th, 2014 - 01:50 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • fgustavo35

    I wish Argentina had a free trade agreement with the Falkland Islands. As well as flights coming to and from the continent more often than now

    Feb 17th, 2014 - 04:49 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Tarquin Fin

    10
    Right on fellow! Are you from Argentina?

    Feb 17th, 2014 - 05:15 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • CabezaDura2

    10

    It will be very difficult for any politicians to reestablish the diplomatic process of the 1990s after things have being taken so far as to have whole blocks of countries support Argentina in the blockade by the Kirchner years.

    Feb 17th, 2014 - 05:23 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • fgustavo35

    Yes, Tarquin Fin. I am from Argentina.
    And yes it will be difficult but not impossible to go back to the diplomatic proces of the 90 s. After all, here in Argentina we have a large British community. And the kirchners are no longer wanted by most of the argentine population.

    Feb 17th, 2014 - 07:30 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • The Chilean perspective

    So what exactly did the Brazilian diplomat say? Where's the quote?

    Feb 17th, 2014 - 08:37 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Tarquin Fin

    13 Gustavo:
    So am I. Good to know another Argentine does think that pursuing the “Malvinas” cause is just a waste of time, money and talent.
    We do have so many other things to work on!

    Feb 17th, 2014 - 08:47 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ChrisR

    Pizza or chicken has had her fair share of balls-ups, but she was lying. The Brazillian Ambassador was simply telling the truth.

    Oh, how it hurts TMBOA to have to face the truth, especially as her face is also a lie.

    Feb 17th, 2014 - 10:12 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Math

    I often see people here talking about Brazil and its people as it has, let's say, the intention to conquer South America because of, let's say again, a very sick man got elected and made ufanist comments half of the country jokes about.
    I can't think of major incidents in which Brazil took a relevant part since the Paraguayan war. I see very stablished borders with a lot of countries, stronger integration than ever, Colombians natives who cross the borders and feel home, Peruvian ones who even get land to them... South Americans, being western or natives, are very ok with us - poor or rich - and we are very ok with us.

    Feb 18th, 2014 - 01:51 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • A_neuTroll_Observer

    A full apology should be in order not just from Brazil, but also from Uruguay, Paraguay, and from each single individual European Union nation: Austria, Belgium, Bulgaria, Cyprus, the Czech Republic, Denmark, Estonia, Finland, France, Germany, Greece, Hungary, Ireland, Italy, Latvia, Lithuania, Luxembourg, Malta, the Netherlands, Poland, Portugal, Romania, Slovakia, Slovenia, Spain, Sweden, United Kingdom. Additionally the United States and Canada should apologize to us for harming us here behind the scenes, Australia should apologize for standing with the British, and China and Russia should apologize for not buying enough from us to be a greater force in this scenario.

    Every single one of those nations should apologize. Nothing but a bunch of HYPOCRITES, shouting at Argentina 'self-determination!' and then turning right around and DENYING ARGENTINE PEOPLE THE RIGHT OF SELF-DETERMINATION!!!!

    Trying to force the country into trade agreements. Once again no self-determination allowed when not convenient.

    Feb 18th, 2014 - 01:55 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Anglotino

    Argentina can leave Mercosur whenever it wishes.

    It can also cut ties with whomever it wishes.

    But it doesn't. So suck it up.

    Feb 18th, 2014 - 04:32 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Clyde15

    #18
    DENYING ARGENTINE PEOPLE THE RIGHT OF SELF-DETERMINATION!!!!

    Explain. I thought that it was Kirchner and Co. that were doing this.

    Feb 18th, 2014 - 10:53 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Gordo1

    @ Clyde15
    Can't you see cynical tongue in cheek when it is so obvious?

    Feb 18th, 2014 - 11:07 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • yankeeboy

    18. You obviously don't know what the term “self -determination” means.

    Feb 18th, 2014 - 11:09 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • DJ56

    Why is anyone surprised? Argentina has effectively killed off mercosur anyway.
    http://www.economist.com/news/leaders/21596515-there-are-lessons-many-governments-one-countrys-100-years-decline-parable

    Feb 18th, 2014 - 11:12 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • yankeeboy

    18. You are brainwashed and braindead.
    Hows the wine business in Mendoza?
    Are the new malls bustling with activity?

    The old drag queen is saying Argentina doesn't produce drugs. So then I wonder why there's been a 700%+ increase in ephedrine entering the country in the last decade? Way more than any local mfg could ever use.

    Rgs always expect everyone to be as dumb as they are.

    Feb 18th, 2014 - 12:47 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • A_neuTroll_Observer

    Wine business is fine.

    The new malls, two have opened. Though admittedly 30% vacancies on them. I knew there was some overbuilding there anyways.

    Feb 18th, 2014 - 01:00 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Andy65

    @ A_neuTroll_Observer Are you for real

    Feb 18th, 2014 - 01:04 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • A_neuTroll_Observer

    Why... For being a neutral party here and not spouting hatred I'm not for real?

    Feb 18th, 2014 - 01:07 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • yankeeboy

    25. That's odd since I just saw an article in La Nacion saying it wasn't.

    I wonder who to believe?

    Feb 18th, 2014 - 01:08 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • A_neuTroll_Observer

    I don't discuss with liars like you anymore.

    Mendoza's wine industry comes from more than a decade of the fastest growth in the world. It went from exporting less than Uruguay in 2001 to top exporter of the Americas. From average of one new winery ever 2 months in 2000, to 2 new wineries every MONTH in the period 2007-2011. It has nearly tripled the number of tourists in winery tourism, from 94.000 to 300.000. The Vendimia Wine festival has gone from 4 days to 2 weeks, the main even from one night to 4 nights due to national and international demand for tickets. From 12 wine bars in 2000 to 50 today.

    Deny those numbers you imbecile

    Feb 18th, 2014 - 01:15 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • yankeeboy

    I love love love when stupid Rgs cherry pick data. Why don't you use the last 7 years of Arg Federal numbers and say you'll surpass the USA in 25 yrs?

    Cherry picking a few years of the past is not going to predict the future.

    Let me jog your memory, you lost the preferential trade incentive with the USA, your inflation is 40+% and rising and you just had the worst crop in the last decade.

    http://www.lanacion.com.ar/1663012-los-bodegueros-esperan-la-peor-cosecha-en-10-anos

    Feb 18th, 2014 - 01:22 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Andy65

    @A_neuTroll_Observer There's hospitals for people like you though some choose to call them the nut house

    Feb 18th, 2014 - 03:25 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • A_neuTroll_Observer

    @30

    So now the late cold winter temperatures, and the Zonda wind are also Argentina's fault.

    And I'm the one being told to go to the nut house.

    These Anglos are just hopeless, hapless delusional morons.

    Feb 18th, 2014 - 03:46 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • yankeeboy

    I'm not blaming anyone I am refuting the fallacious claim that the wine business is doing well.
    With a link to prove my statement
    Which you never ever do.

    Feb 18th, 2014 - 04:04 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • A_neuTroll_Observer

    Are you some sort of failed experiment of human-saw dust interbreeding?

    What part of “the wine business in Mendoza” is TIMES bigger now than 15 years ago, in every sense and category, don't you understand????

    How do you achieve that if you did not do well? So what it was a so-so climactic year? That proves your statement and nullifies almost two decades of massive improvements in quality and diversification?

    I pity your high school teachers, if you went to one (not saying much, it's the USA high school system after all).

    Feb 18th, 2014 - 04:30 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • yankeeboy

    Maybe you don't read well. Did I ask how it was doing the last 15 years? Nope I asked how is it doing today.
    And today it ain't doin' too good
    and with 40 %inflation and no imports allowed it won't be doin' too good tomorrow.
    What's left in that horrible province anyway?
    Mining down ( waaay donw)
    Wine down ( waaay down)
    Int'l tourism ( waaay down)

    You do have a growing drug trade
    I see they don't like newspapers articles about them tho

    Feb 18th, 2014 - 04:59 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • A_neuTroll_Observer

    'You do have a growing drug trade'

    I guess growth in the USA is maxed out, 100% penetration.

    Feb 18th, 2014 - 05:06 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • yankeeboy

    I love that stupid Rgs are claiming the peso run is over
    and The NYC market says it will be 10.05 gov't rate by June
    I think know whos right

    I hear they're coming out with $500 peso notes this year.
    It looks like CFK is conceding defeat.
    They really need a $1000, $5000 note though

    Feb 18th, 2014 - 07:21 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • A_neuTroll_Observer

    I do know who was wrong predicting the peso, like a dog humping an old lady looking for sex:

    “14 to 1 by 2012”

    That poor sod must be starving in the urinated streets of Manhattan as a financial adviser.

    Feb 18th, 2014 - 07:33 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • yankeeboy

    I'm happy with the destruction 10/1 has done.
    I can't wait until winter
    I wonder if it will be $20/lt for gas by then?

    Do you heat your stove with propane?
    How much are they now?
    You should stock up.

    Feb 18th, 2014 - 07:38 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Zaphod102

    ”[I'm] not spouting hatred (27)... you imbecile (29) ...hopeless, hapless delusional morons (32)... Are you some sort of failed experiment of human-saw dust interbreeding? (34)”

    Spot the inconsistency. :-D

    Feb 19th, 2014 - 03:19 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Jack Bauer

    @18 OldTroll observer, so you think that :-
    “A full apology should be in order not just from Brazil, but also from Uruguay”
    ....well keep on thinking, ain't gonna come. As a matter of fact, the Ambassador Vera Machado just told the truth, and I think Brazil should take advantage of this situation so that Argentina DOES pull out...who needs them ?? let CFK throw her tantrums, but afterwards, PLEASE tell us you don't want to be part of the Mercosur anymore....couldn't make us happier.

    And the statement at the end of your pathetic post,........ “Trying to force the country into trade agreements. Once again no self-determination allowed when not convenient”.....
    I don't think you get it .....we don't want you, and would be happy to oblige....exercise your right to SELF-DETERMINATION, and get the hell OUT !!!!!

    Feb 20th, 2014 - 07:59 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Math

    @41
    He was being ironic, I guess.

    Feb 23rd, 2014 - 04:39 pm - Link - Report abuse 0

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