MercoPress. South Atlantic News Agency
Argentina appeals hedge funds case to US Supreme Court; warns of 'havoc' if lower court ruling stands
Argentina announced on Tuesday it had appealed to the US Supreme Court against a lower court order to pay off hedge fund investors in its bonds, arguing that order violated its sovereignty. Read full article
Comments
Disclaimer & comment rulesThe sky is falling, the sky is falling !
Feb 19th, 2014 - 07:16 am - Link - Report abuse 0Pay up, losers!
Feb 19th, 2014 - 07:23 am - Link - Report abuse 0“The consequences of this case go well beyond Argentina. If left un-reviewed, the lower court orders could render future sovereign debt restructurings virtually impossible”
Feb 19th, 2014 - 08:24 am - Link - Report abuse 0Argentine blackmail, plain and simple, rule in argentinas favour now or you wont get any loaned money back now or in future.
solution....argentinas self-admission as a non-viable money borrower renders them unable repay any loans now or in the future , no more loans for them, simple.
If The Dark Country were a dog, it would be put down to end it's misery.
Feb 19th, 2014 - 10:43 am - Link - Report abuse 0Where the gun?
All lies of course. I hope Scotus declines to hear the case.
Feb 19th, 2014 - 10:44 am - Link - Report abuse 0Ignoring Argentina seems to be the best course of action.
I'm torn between the possible outcomes of this case. A default on top of everything Argentina is going through right now, will likely be the end of the repugnant government we have, but will also inflict a lot of harm upon ordinary Argentines.
Feb 19th, 2014 - 02:25 pm - Link - Report abuse 0However, since this economic breakdown will happen on Peronista watch (they have always managed to hand off chaos and subsequent breakdown to others before) one might hope it'll be the Peronista death knell. If so, I'd say go on with it - rid us of this nightmare of 70 years and counting.
@6 As long as the Peronistas control the trade unions, punteros, the media, public opinion, government employees, mafias and public opinion, they will stay even if we end up like Cuba.
Feb 19th, 2014 - 02:59 pm - Link - Report abuse 06 Jonaz_BsAs (#) I totally agree with you; I don't like the chaos we will have to live through but if it means the end of these people once and for all then I'm for it.
Feb 19th, 2014 - 03:02 pm - Link - Report abuse 0It would be a good idea if these crooks put all their ill gotten gains towards cancelling the debt; it would probably cover the better part of it if not all.
Wow, I just checked Argentine inflation for february; we're now at 73% yearly rate and increasing FAST. This might explode before we even default.
Feb 19th, 2014 - 03:07 pm - Link - Report abuse 0They are right that it's a bad precedent in relation to future restructuring around the world but the Argentine Government just takes too many liberties using that fact to its advantage.
Feb 19th, 2014 - 03:12 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Judges never like creating a precedent. But I think the fear mongering of Argentina is a last ditch begging strategy. I understand their position completely and if only they had been able to gag CFK and harness in her raging ego, they may not be in this place of last resort.
Feb 19th, 2014 - 03:30 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I too am torn. It is the good people that seem to suffer the most in crisis. It looks likely that my next trip is going to include some time in Argentina so it will be interesting to hear some more first-hand opinions.
Singer told them there will be no negotiations until AFTER SCOTUS rules.
Feb 19th, 2014 - 03:43 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Didn't Think tell us The Gramercy plan would be accepted?
I do joke about it but seriously has he ever been right about anything?
I suspect that the American attorneys representing Argentina in this case are being paid in US Dollars, cash “ up front ” as they say, just in case they lose.
Feb 19th, 2014 - 05:26 pm - Link - Report abuse 0But one can expect that either way, Argentina and others nearby of that same ilk and radical persuasion will never take any responsibility for any of this, and blame it all on those “ conspiratorial Yanquis ” in the end. That always sounds so good to the masses.
Intelligent Argentines should be looking into various banks and offshore accounts world-wide, associated with the current Argentine government leaders, before they disappear, or fade away to comfortable retirement and exile.
@9 Jonaz
Feb 19th, 2014 - 07:40 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“This might explode before we even default.”
Yes. A while back this case was one of the largest black clouds on the horizon for Argentina but other events have since overtaken it.
...
While CFK didn't cause the 2001 default, it seems to me that she has enjoyed all the band-standing opportunities this case has provided her with. It allows her to simultaneously rant against Argentina's “enemies” whilst reminding the gullible what happened last time they embraced neo-liberal economics.
Although in this case I support Argentina's position against NML, there would be some natural justice done if CFK's own chickens came home to roost before this case is resolved.
that order violated its sovereignty.,,,,,,
Feb 19th, 2014 - 08:05 pm - Link - Report abuse 0is this not in theory an act of War against Argentina,
after all , did they not,, against the brits, lol.
still,
the Americans wont be so easy on them,
If these are argieland's arguments, it should take the Supreme Court about 20 minutes.
Feb 19th, 2014 - 08:54 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“Buenos Aires said the lower court was wrong in trying to force the country to pay them out of reserves it says are immune from such orders.” Except that argieland abandoned sovereign immunity in order to sell.
“enforcing the lower court ruling could wreak havoc with restructurings of sovereign bonds generally, having a potential deep effect on global sovereign bond markets.” Unless you're not as criminal as argieland.
And the rest is just reiteration in different words.
Just make the criminals PAY.
9 Jonaz_BsAs (#) Be very careful with your credit card!! if you add the rate for financing with VAT and life insurance and compound it you're looking at some 84% interest
Feb 19th, 2014 - 09:02 pm - Link - Report abuse 0(6) Jonaz_BsAs
Feb 19th, 2014 - 09:36 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You say...:
”They (Peronists) have always managed to hand off chaos and subsequent breakdown to others before”
I say...:
ORLY?
(14) Condorito
You say...:
“Although in this case I support Argentina's position against NML”
I say...:
Ahhhh... The proletarian miners blood is thicker than water ;-)
(17) Tim
You say...:
“Be very careful with your credit card”
I say...:
Only a Turnip would use their Credit Card in times like these.... Use your Debit Card instead, laddie....
(7) MagnusMaster
When did they “managed to hand off chaos”... and to whom?
In 1955 to the Revolución Libertadora?
In 1976 to the Proceso de Reorganización Nacional?
@ Think
Feb 19th, 2014 - 09:58 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Well we can't choose are blood, but I have been thinning it with some fine non-proletarian Antakari Carmenere - Syrah Gran Reserva.
The Ks are sending goon squads out to the grocery stores.
Feb 19th, 2014 - 10:25 pm - Link - Report abuse 0They're just a few steps behind their brother to the north
@Tim
Feb 19th, 2014 - 11:33 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Well, if the inflation is close to 80%, an interest rate of 84% isn't so bad after all, however crazy that sounds.
“Only a Turnip would use their Credit Card in times like these.... Use your Debit Card instead, laddie....”
Feb 20th, 2014 - 06:45 am - Link - Report abuse 0Thankfully my country has never had “times like these”.
I heard there are lots of sign around Arg saying business won't accept credit cards any longer due to the high inflation.
Feb 20th, 2014 - 12:41 pm - Link - Report abuse 0So it is irrelevant.
I can't imagine this is good for tourism.
I am shocked at the violence in Palermo. It is completely out of control.
@6 I meant to respond to you before. If you are honestly “torn”, and without any wish to be rude to you personally, you have your head screwed on the wrong way. Compare your country to others. Where else starts “negotiating” pay increases at 30%? Where else has sectors of the “economy” constantly “at war” with the “government”? What other state has so many legal judgements against it? What other state spends so much of its taxpayers money trying to evade its debts? What other state constantly rehashes its history? And then uses it to attack other people? And I don't mean 32 years ago. I mean NOW. Your state currently attacks Brazil, Chile, Falkland Islands, Paraguay and Uruguay and the UK and USA. I can feel sorry for the few Argentines left. The people that use intelligence, rationality, honesty, probity. Argies barely understand those words. Never mind what they mean. But you mention ordinary people of argieland. Who voted for your current “government”? And there's some reason why they shouldn't pay the penalty for supporting a “repugnant government”?
Feb 20th, 2014 - 05:18 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@8 IF you believe that, why don't you fight? Why don't you invade the Casa Rosada? Drag the larcenous, mendacious bitch out? And HANG her? Then you can start on the rest. You can take back your money. They'll be fouling themselves!
@14 “Although in this case I support Argentina's position against NML”. Really? Then you are no better than argies. With “restructuring”, argieland STOLE. And you support a thief against one organisation prepared to stand up against it? Perhaps you should review your morals!
@18 One way or another, YOU will be made to suffer. And few deserve it more.
@21 Dear, dear, still brainless. If inflation is 80% your currency is worth around 1/80th of face value. But 84% interest will mean 84% of REAL value. And so on. Down to the electronics store and see what it means!
@Conqueror
Feb 20th, 2014 - 07:51 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“If inflation is 80% your currency is worth around 1/80th of face value.”
What the hell are you talking about? 80% inflation - which is insanely high - means that 365 days from today, an average consumer product is 1,8 times more expensive than today, not 80 times!
Furthermore, a credit card interest rate of 84% of nominal value in a 80% yearly inflation environment means that you end up paying 4% in real interest if you keep your purchasing power year on year.
You should be glad you don't live in a country where basic math skills are necessary in order to survive.
@24
Feb 20th, 2014 - 09:10 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“And you support a thief against one organisation prepared to stand up against it?”
No, other way round - I said I support Argentina's case against NML.
...
I have said many times before that, whilst Argentina handled the debt negotiations badly in many ways, a sovereign nation has a right to default on debts. There are no written rules, there is no agreed protocol. That is the risk of buying emerging market debt.
If you want a real example of debt being fraudulently wrapped up, sold and defaulted on, have a look at the sub-prime collapse of 2007.
26. you are right a sovereign nation can do whatever it wants. Except and here is the rub, if they don't conform to best practices and do things in an acceptable way there will be a equal reaction from the other side.
Feb 20th, 2014 - 10:29 pm - Link - Report abuse 0They're learning their lesson.
Argentina will lose this case
but they've already lost anyway
@27
Feb 20th, 2014 - 10:49 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Yes, that is true.
If Argentina had handled their default as well as Uruguay did at the same time, this all would have been over in 2003.
However Argentina has been punished by the reaction you mention, the reactions are the wrecked economy and the rock-bottom standing with various international organizations.
The case brought by NML is a different matter. Just because Argentina has behaved thuggishly with their creditors doesn't make NML a knight in shining armour.
NML is a company, by a written contract they are owed money, they want their money.
Feb 21st, 2014 - 01:50 am - Link - Report abuse 0It is really as simple as that.
@ 8 Tim
Feb 21st, 2014 - 03:08 am - Link - Report abuse 0“It would be a good idea if these crooks put all their ill gotten gains towards cancelling the debt; it would probably cover the better part of it if not all”
You wouldn't be thinking of e.g. the billion or more pesos, which disappeared together with the homes in “Misión Sueños Compartidos”. For 1.3 billion pesos the project has finished a little more than 800 modest homes at an average cost of 1.5 million pesos - for that amount one can build a luxury home in a private, fenced neighborhood in any of the provinces where the 800 modest homes were built.
30 St.John (#) That and other rip-offs!! Where do you live? I'm out in Olivos, easy to track down as I'm deputy chairman of the cemetery.
Feb 21st, 2014 - 02:32 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@ 31 Tim
Feb 21st, 2014 - 03:58 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“That and other rip-offs!! ”
Well, I didn't want to start a mile long list :)
When I am in Argentina (some 3-6 months a year in 2 or 3 visits) I live in Mendoza, and stay very far away from Buenos Aires, which many people in the provinces think should be surrounded by a 'Berlin Wall' and a deep moat :)
I tend to agree, since I was working as a consultant in BsAs in 2002 and saw the misery.
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