MercoPress. South Atlantic News Agency
Argentina with no serious economic problems, “just complexities and challenges”
Economy Minister Axel Kicillof argued that Argentina does not have serious economic problems, but rather “complexities, difficulties and challenges,” and accused economists and dissident media outlets of orchestrating a campaign to generate an “end of the world” feeling among members of society. Read full article
Comments
Disclaimer & comment rulesWho is he trying to kid?
Mar 11th, 2014 - 06:55 am - Link - Report abuse 0I came across this video of Argentina's lawyer, Jonathan Blackman, defying a US Appeals Court Judge.
Mar 11th, 2014 - 07:56 am - Link - Report abuse 0I hope the link works....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FkIoZlXFJ-Y
If Argentina truly has no economic problems then pay off your debts!
Mar 11th, 2014 - 09:32 am - Link - Report abuse 0Is this a Monty Python sketch? if it is, it's a classic
Mar 11th, 2014 - 10:53 am - Link - Report abuse 0It is true the IMF gave guidance but they are waiting a year to test the method to see if it is accurate and needs to be adjusted. Also they already warned the Govt NOT to include the Priced controlled items. Which you know they are.
Mar 11th, 2014 - 11:07 am - Link - Report abuse 0He is an avowed Marxist. He will continue to run the economy into the ground.
Look to Venezuela for the immediate future.
LMAO when I read this in Clarin.
Mar 11th, 2014 - 11:16 am - Link - Report abuse 0They truly have a government that Goebbels would be proud of, unless of course, Kickitoff really believes this crap.
Argies, hold very tight please, crash of late 2014 coming to a place near you!
Chris, I think Axel is a “true believer”.
Mar 11th, 2014 - 11:43 am - Link - Report abuse 0Axel is someone who thinks he is smart but in probably just an average guy surrounded by very stupid people.
Did you see Nat Gas ins down ypy by 5%!? They need that more than they do oil. Watch for lots more blackouts this year.
What an idiot. Of course, he is a raving communist, and we all know what their economic policies are.
Mar 11th, 2014 - 11:45 am - Link - Report abuse 08
Mar 11th, 2014 - 12:03 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The problem is not really Kicillof, the problem is the person who designated him as the economy minister. He was just a teacher that the only bussiness he ever had a restaurant was a failure and closed down.
Not even if Nestor would have allowed La Campora to take over so many offices and ministeries.
He's speaking K. It translated as follows:
Mar 11th, 2014 - 12:11 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“Currently there are no grave problems...”
Translation: “We are drowning in a chaotic mass of grave problems...”
“...Intense campaigns that crop up (suggesting) that things are going to get increasingly worse and that the economy is going to crash.”
Translation: “Our opponents are trying to point out obvious facts that we are trying to cover up.”
“[Money exchange market] is fairly stabilized...”
Translation: “The money market is a complete disaster, and we have already prepared a bunker for us to hide in when it all goes to hell.”
Woke up yesterday morning and all my Apple equipment had automatically reset the time to an hour earlier. Being inept and trying to manually reset to the correct time, I accidentally reset my iPad to 2016.
Mar 11th, 2014 - 12:19 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Out of curiosity, I checked my browser for news and came across this curious article about Argentina...
10 March, 2016 Buenos Aires, Argentina (AP) — With no one else on the ballot, state media reported Monday that Cristina Elisabet Fernández de Kirchner was not only again elected to the presidency in Argentina, she won with the unanimous approval of the country, which had 100% turnout.
Argentinians went to the polls on Sunday to approve the new roster of deputies for the People's Assembly, the country's newly created legislature. The vote, more a political ritual than an election by Western standards, reflects the tightly censored and controlled society created by the Kirchner dynasty. Argentina's media quickly reported CFK had won the presidency without a single dissenting ballot.
“This is an expression of all the people's absolute support and profound trust in our supreme leader as they single-mindedly remain loyal to her”, the state-run Argentine News Agency said.
Voters in the election have no choice who to vote for — there is only one candidate's name on the ballot for each district. Instead, they have the choice of voting yes or no, and according to official accounts virtually all choose yes. Argentina also typically puts turnout nationwide at over 99%.
Analysts will be closely watching to see if the deputies this time around reflect a generational change as Cristina Fernández de Kirchner looks to solidify her power and replace older cadres with younger, more loyal ones.
The Justicialist People's Assembly is controlled by the smaller and more powerful body called the Kirchner Bolivarianism Revolutionary Supreme Counci which also controls all media and private industry in a Argentina.
Twonk!
Mar 11th, 2014 - 12:38 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The problem is that current Argentinian politicians just make the complexities and challenges even greater than they otherwise would be. They contribute to the problems rather than providing the solutions.
Mar 11th, 2014 - 12:43 pm - Link - Report abuse 04 - Yes, it is some sort of “Ministry of Silly Walks”
Mar 11th, 2014 - 12:45 pm - Link - Report abuse 0HA HA, sounds just the garbage they come out with in meetings in work,
Mar 11th, 2014 - 12:55 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Totally fucked up = complexities
Big fucking problems/probably wont work = challenges
13
Mar 11th, 2014 - 12:55 pm - Link - Report abuse 0the problem is the political cost of doing so many things that go against the “fairy tales” of the gov't. Eventually reality forces them to be covering up loopholes with opening other ones even bigger and more dangerous...Its been like this the entire decade.
What he is saying is that it isn't darkness, it is just the absence of light.
Mar 11th, 2014 - 12:55 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You just cannot make this stuff up.
Mar 11th, 2014 - 01:05 pm - Link - Report abuse 0So much funny...
“The dollar is not the Argentine currency, but it has much symbolic and cultural power, because we had very economically unstable times prior to the past 10 years,” Kicillof said, arguing that “times when (the country was going) bust always have to do with the dollar.”
So where to start:
If prior to the last 10 year was economically unstable, how on earth do they describe the continuing situation.
The economic woes are nothing to do with the US dollar.
It's gross mismanagement of the entire economy.
For instance here in the UK if I want say US dollars I go to a bank hand over Pounds and I get money at an an exchange rate that from day to day will be roughly the same. At times it will rise a little or fall a little.
If I want to keeps this foreign currency at home no problem.
I currently have (Notes and Coins) money from Hong Kong, Singapore, Sri Lanka, Barbados, Trinidad, Australia, New Zealand and the US. in various sums equivalent to between £ 50 and £ 500.
If you start from the basis that Argentina's problems are self made, then Kicillof has a point. The problems can be fixed, but he will have to go in to reverse on former K economic measures, which he has already started to do:
Mar 11th, 2014 - 01:06 pm - Link - Report abuse 01) spend reserves to hold up peso
scrapped that
2) telling the creditors to fu*k off
scrapped that - now pleading with the Paris Club
3) expropriating property with out compensation
scrapped that - now settled with repsol
That was the easy part, now Axel, you have to administer the stronger medicine:
- stop printing money
- reduce government spending
- stop fixing prices
- stop taxing exports
- allow repatriation of earnings
- progressively lower import tariffs
Like all sensible Marxists you are going to have to embrace liberal policies.
IMF: Have you read this, sir? (holds up guidelines on economic management)
Mar 11th, 2014 - 02:06 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Axel: No! Oh, yes, yes - yes.
IMF: Anything to declare?
Axel: Yes. No! No! No! No! Nothing to declare, no, nothing to do with the economy, no.
IMF: No high inflation, crashing peso, capital flight, low reserves?
Axel: Oh yes, 25% inflation. No, no, no. No. 4%... 4% inflation. No, no. Not even 4% inflation. No, no inflation at all. No, capital flight at all. No low reserves and crashing economy, no.
IMF: Which country have you been visiting, sir?
Axel K: Argentina. Errr, no! No, not Argentina... er... not Argentina, it began with A but it wasn't Argentina, oh what could it be? Terribly bad memory for names. What's the name of that country where they don't have high inflation?
IMF: America?
Axel: America! That's it. The good old U S of A, yes, mm.
IMF: The headers on these economic records say 'Buenos Aires', sir.
Axel: Yes well, it was the USA then.
IMF: Buenos Aires's in Argentina, sir.
Axel: Argentina, yes mm... mm... yes.
IMF: Argentina - where they have high inflation, crashing peso, capital flight and low reserves.
Axel: (laughs nervously) Oh, nice shed you've got here.
IMF: Have you, er, got any US currency, sir?
Axel: No, just the high inflation, crashing peso, capital flight and low reserves. Err, just the capital flight, er, my flight of the capital. I'm taking a flight to the capital and will be avoiding crashing by paying for a private jet using the high reserves, .
IMF: That came out a bit glib didn't it? (an economic crash alarm goes off inside his briefcase; Axel Kicillof thumps it, unsuccessfully) Have you got an economic crash alarm in there, sir?
Axel: No, no, heavens no, no, just vests. (he thumps the briefcase and the alarm stops)
IMF: Sounded a bit like an economic crash alarm going off.
Axel: Well it can't have been, it must be a vest, er, going off.
IMF: Going off? (Clocks start ticking and chiming in the briefcase. Axel K desperately thumps the case.)
Jolly Good Fun,
Mar 11th, 2014 - 02:40 pm - Link - Report abuse 0It would seem that you and I are taking this issue seriously...
Nice to know there's someone else with a twisted sense of humor...
Cheers!
@21 - Anything that leaves the Argentine government cannot be taken seriously.
Mar 11th, 2014 - 02:53 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I couldn't help myself after @4 put that it was like a Monty Python sketch.
My reply is an adaptation of the Lying Smuggler sketch. Quite befitting don't you think.
The Argentine government are one crazy bunch.
kicillof is not qualified to be a minister of economy.
Mar 11th, 2014 - 03:04 pm - Link - Report abuse 0his background as a professional is limited to teaching and, maybe, to theoretical research.
but he would not be hired by any serious company.
so, his discourses and appearances are more pour la galerie.
no doubts the one who is managing the economy right now is fábrega.
anyway, it is funny to read the comments here.
probably most of these posters here can not locate buenos aires on the map, but they insist in opining.
like the ones who said that the blue dollar would cost $ 20 in february or march, or the ones who said that the soybean harvest would be a total failure, or that the soybean price would drop dramatically.
soy harvest is already a success, with a new record, that is more than 54 million tons at u$s 522 per ton.
plus 24 million tons of corn, plus wheat, etc
that means more than 38.000 million dollars.
the bad thing is that not even that amount can solve the problems created by the 5 big imbeciles: moreno, kicillof, lorenzino, echegaray and marcó del pont.
I do not know who the hell this Condorito fellow is, but I will tell you what he's not:
Mar 11th, 2014 - 03:44 pm - Link - Report abuse 0He is certainly not rational and knows nothing about Argentina...
He claims to live is some mythical land called Elqui, but then again he claims that Pisco originally comes from ...Peru...??? That alone de masks that he's not from this world.
A few examples:
1. That the carefully economic restoration plan of Nestor and Cristina includes spendings their reserves to hold up the peso
2. To suggest that the solution to solving the economic crisis in Argentina would include to stop printing money, reduce government spending, stop fixing prices, stop taxing exports, allow repatriation of earnings, progressively lower import tariffs...
REALLY???
Come on, admit to everyone that you've been drinking Gato Negro again, ...haven't you...
The solution to Argentina's economic problems was solved by the IMF a long time ago... Actually two solutions... A practical solution and a miraculous one...
The practical solution was that the Virgin Mary would come down from the heavens with 500 trillion Dollars to finance their government. The miraculous solution was that their countrymen, pay their taxes, their politicians would stop stealing from the treasury and Argentines would stop blaming their woes on someone else...
@Chicureo
Mar 11th, 2014 - 04:30 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Gato Negro ?
Only with Coke - after all Condorito is a king among Jotes.
Comment removed by the editor.
Mar 11th, 2014 - 04:39 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@26 toby
Mar 11th, 2014 - 04:51 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Come on. You can do better than that.
Ok, you can't, sorry.
23
Mar 11th, 2014 - 04:55 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Those 5 you speak of, have/had no desicion power over macroeconomic policy. Only Kicillof who has direct influence over CFK is perhaps the most powerful, the rest just follow orders...Between the 4 of them they dont add up a economy minister. They are just caricatures that are in charge of make up consecuential aspects of the economy
It was only CFK that decides the day to day economic agenda according to her own political needs, and whatever comes out of it the “relato” fixes and adjusts itself to it
Comment removed by the editor.
Mar 11th, 2014 - 04:56 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@26
Mar 11th, 2014 - 04:57 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“Lots of anniversaries next year.”
Yes, 14th June being one of them.
26
Mar 11th, 2014 - 05:13 pm - Link - Report abuse 0there were 190 dead and 1850 injured in madrid, and 60 dead and 700 injured in london, all of them ordinary people, including women and kids.
now, what did al qaeda get of all that shit, you imbecile?
“getting payback”?
so killing inocent people is your idea of justice, pelotudito?
Crikey! Toby has now transmogrified into Adolf. He does more transmogrifications than Dr Who (I am sure he's a fan, snigger snigger). Its a step up from Trumpton though…
Mar 11th, 2014 - 05:16 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@29 toby
Mar 11th, 2014 - 05:18 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Unusually I agree with pc @31
Comment removed by the editor.
Mar 11th, 2014 - 05:29 pm - Link - Report abuse 034
Mar 11th, 2014 - 05:40 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Somehow the most victims of islamic terrorism are Muslims themselves... Its too early to determine yet, but what if those iranians with stolen passports are responsable for blowing up the Malasyan flight ?? the vast majority of passengers are Asians....So what then ?? How do you explain this??
@35
Mar 11th, 2014 - 05:53 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I am unable to explaining it.
I have to abandon my lesser alter egos
And leave them withering on the vine.
It is the only way.
The only route back to my center,
to rebuild the truthful troll that was,
Once upon a time.
Little Condor,
Mar 11th, 2014 - 05:55 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Gato Negro is a poor wine for cooking with, but not worth even discussing as it has no character and not worth debating about as it has no attributes...
...sort about like #34...
37 A “Gato” in Argentina nowdays is a slut or whore
Mar 11th, 2014 - 06:00 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@ 37 Chicureo
Mar 11th, 2014 - 06:10 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Like women, every wine has its merits.
Gato Negro with coke is a good fix for a bad stomach - “clos de pirque” with coke is an acceptable substitute.
As for #34, it's his head that need fixing.
@CD
Not even the cats are safe!
Condorito, I draw the line with Tetrapaks... Same with women...
Mar 11th, 2014 - 06:31 pm - Link - Report abuse 0CD, our #34 would qualify as a Gato transvestite...
I just finished a wonderful home made pesto and spaghetti with roasted garlic dish accompanied with a chilled Nimbus Gewürtztraminer. By the way, speaking of Argentina and wine, Argentinian Champagne in general is better than Chilean.
@ CD
Mar 11th, 2014 - 06:44 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“A “Gato” in Argentina nowdays is a slut or whore”
Does that make a high class escort a “Gâteau”?
Sorry just couldn't resist.
@ Chicureo
A line in the sand shifts with time.
Meanwhile, In the “Real Argentina”….
Mar 11th, 2014 - 07:06 pm - Link - Report abuse 01) The “Black Market for dollars is almost inexistent today, with its rate very close of what you can get your dollars legally…. (But, of course, there will always be some “shady elements” that need a place to laundry their dirty money…)
2) The prices of most Mercosur produced cars have quietly gone down with about 10% since yesterday…
a) A little Ford Ka was 107,000$ on Friday….
Price today…...........:~ 97,000$...
b) A little Chevrolet Celta was 105,000$ on Friday….
Price today….......................:~ 95,000$...
Ohhhhhhhhhhhhh…. My goooooooood…!!! Hyperdeflation is coming…!!!
(40) Chicureo
In my humble experience....., most cheap women are much, much better than most cheap wine....
First: good to see the offensive post from the village idiot were deleted.
Mar 11th, 2014 - 07:48 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Condorito and THINK: I appreciate both your opinions regarding wine and women. Price and quality are not necessarily relative. Despite the fact that my taste standards start with a very drinkable Viña Carmen Margaux at roughly 1.700 pesos at the supermarket, I've been blessed with a priceless “Doña Melchor” who's been a part of my life since my subteniente days. ...If she'd only allow my single malt privileges returned she'd be perfect...
Meanwhile, In the “Real Argentina”….
Why is this phenomena happening THINK? I'd appreciate your opinion... Other posters as well...
Finally, In my humble experience....., most expensive wines are much, much better than most expensive women...
Economy Minister Axel Kicillof argued that Argentina does not have serious economic problems//????????
Mar 11th, 2014 - 08:12 pm - Link - Report abuse 0He should know, he is the expert,
so there you go Argentina is getting stronger , wiser , and more powerful,
End of then ..lol
Is “Kicillof” a Russian name? It certainly doesn't sound South American and it would be amazing if it was as CFK and ole Nestor would only appoint Europeans to their senior government posts. I only thought Russian because he looks a little like Leo Di Caprio, who coincidently is also scheduled to play Rasputin.
Mar 11th, 2014 - 08:22 pm - Link - Report abuse 042. You're a good contra-indicator, whenever you talk about the blue dollar going down it inevitably goes up a lot!
Mar 11th, 2014 - 08:52 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Don't worry Hyperinflation is on the way.
The price of cars has more to do with the taxes one pays over 100K than the market. I think car sales went down 26% mom! So lowering U$1K is a good for business if you have to keep your factories open anyway.
The factories won't be open for long though
#45. “Kicillof” is actually a very common indigenous name of the Fuegians originally from Patagonia who were also the original inhabitants of the Islas Malvinas in prehistoric times. The Malvinas islanders were nearly exterminated during the time of European discovery by English captain John Strong, who, while on a voyage in 1690, discovered the Malvinas. The few surviving indigenous inhabitants escaped to Tierra del Fuego. There's a fascinating entry about the tribe in the Argentinian version of Wikipedia.
Mar 11th, 2014 - 08:55 pm - Link - Report abuse 046
Mar 11th, 2014 - 08:59 pm - Link - Report abuse 0well yankeeboy, you also predicted a blue dollar at $15.
or $ 20?
(43) Chicureo
Mar 11th, 2014 - 09:24 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You say...:
“Why is this phenomena happening THINK? I'd appreciate your opinion... Other posters as well...”
I say...:
Well.... That's how “Capitalism” works in Argentina....
All our car companies have costly local Economy, Finance & Marketing departments....
But the decisions are solely taken by them foreign “Big Chiefs” reading the local papers…, meeting at the Country Club….., sipping their Cask Strength Singles... and saying to each other...:
Hey, guys……
Dollar's up 30% ... Let's mark our prices 35% up and see what happens next week....
Well……….. That’s what happens….
Cheers....
45. Yes people that have never had a job or owned a business think that's exactly how business works.
Mar 11th, 2014 - 09:40 pm - Link - Report abuse 0What a fcking idiot
48. Its not me saying it, it is NYC futures saying it. 20/1 eoy.
I would expect I'll have to look up what the Argentine Wikipedia says....
Mar 11th, 2014 - 10:10 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Here in Chile we have the largest number of different automobile manufactures selling in one market. That's not an exaggeration. It seems like every week I see a new Chinese offering. Because of the open market, pricing perhaps is more competitive.
I always wondered where Comical Ali would turn up next:
Mar 11th, 2014 - 10:16 pm - Link - Report abuse 0https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yfAeMtcURg0
43 Chicureo
Mar 11th, 2014 - 10:23 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“First: good to see the offensive post from the village idiot were deleted. ”
Yeah, he's making quite a habit out of that just lately
...nothing to say and no one to say it too.
Isn't he a distant cousin of Carlos Menem?
Mar 11th, 2014 - 10:26 pm - Link - Report abuse 0car prices were very competitive here...until some genius thought it would be good to charge premium cars with a 30 / 50 % new tax.
Mar 11th, 2014 - 10:29 pm - Link - Report abuse 0maybe the genius did not consider that the whole chain of prices is connected.
that and the drop in orders from brazil has affected the automotive industry dramatically.
but we still remain the 3rd in the whole latin america including mexico, so the potential is still there, i guess.
(55) paulcedron
Mar 11th, 2014 - 10:55 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You say...:
“Car prices were very competitive here...until some genius thought it would be good to charge premium cars with a 30 / 50 % new tax.”
I say...:
The “Premium Cars” affected by the new tax represent ONLY 5-8% of the total market...
The “Premium Cars” affected by the new tax are ~95% imports from outside MercoSur...
The “Premium Cars” affected by the new tax were nothing else than a dollar drain for Argentina, for the only benefit of our local WaBenzi and Wa-Beemer...
Sooooo............ HOW is that “Whole chain of prices connected” ???
Speaking seriously: yes you have the potential, you have always had the great potential...
Mar 11th, 2014 - 11:05 pm - Link - Report abuse 0BTW
54 was in reply to 52
I might note that in my family we have an Argentine manufactured VW pickup and are very satisfied with it.
@ Think
Mar 11th, 2014 - 11:08 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“The “Premium Cars” affected by the new tax are ~95% imports from outside MercoSur...”
Does “Premium Car” translate as “Good Quality Car”?
If that is the case, it is not a surprise that 95% of the “premium” cars come from outside Mercosur?
If you protect the auto industry long enough you get Ladas.
Remember them? Not even the commies in the barrio wanted them.
dear compañero think:
Mar 11th, 2014 - 11:17 pm - Link - Report abuse 0let's compare the price of a ford focus se, for instance:
january 2014: $ 156.000
february 2014: $ 205.000
that is an increment of +/- 32% in +/- 30 days, if my poor maths are not failing.
and we are talking about a car that cost less than the determined limit of $ 170.000 in january.
so the fact is that the whole production line was affected
(59) paulcedron
Mar 11th, 2014 - 11:34 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Dear compañero Cedrón...
Yes, the fact is that the whole production line was affected........ by the decisions taken by them foreign “Big Chiefs” meeting at the Country Club….., sipping their Cask Strength Singles... and saying to each other...: Hey, guys…… Dollar's up 30% ... Let's mark our prices 35% up and see what happens next week....
”NOTHING to do with the new 30 / 50 % new tax on premium cars”
(58) Condorito
You say...:
“If you protect the auto industry long enough you get Ladas.
Remember them? Not even the commies in the barrio wanted them.”
I say...:
I had a Lada Niva once....
One of the best cars i had in Patagonia... Miss it... Never let me down... Nearly ewerything on it could be repaired with a piece of alambre or some chicle...
@ Think
Mar 11th, 2014 - 11:57 pm - Link - Report abuse 0So the “Big Chiefs” marking the prices up was your explanation for why the Ford Ka has come down in price, and...
the “Big Chiefs” marking the prices up was your explanation for why the Ford Focus has gone up in price, and ...
... the Lada Niva was a good car.
Right, it is such a mystery what ever happened to the Lada Niva, why are it's descendants not battling it out with the Toyota Hilux (Jap version) for global domination of the 4x4 utility vehicle market. Maybe they required too much wire and gum.
Rut ro, looks like the teachers are getting a little uppity. Look at them demanding u$580/mo. Almost 100% yoy increase! What nerve!
Mar 12th, 2014 - 12:14 am - Link - Report abuse 0The Gov't demanding they go back to work but they're going to strike instead.
The new CFK slogan:
Cat food para todos!
(61) Condorito
Mar 12th, 2014 - 12:21 am - Link - Report abuse 0You say...:
“It is such a mystery what ever happened to the Lada Niva....”
I say...:
Nothing “Happened” with the Lada Niva...
Is still very popular in primitive Countries like.................... Sweden...
http://www.ladasverige.se/cgi-bin/models629b.html
http://www.ladasverige.se/cgi-bin/models629b.html
Perfect example of Marxists idiocy:
Mar 12th, 2014 - 12:41 am - Link - Report abuse 0Close a grocery store for not abiding by price controls.
Do they not realize this puts added sales pressure on the other grocery stores?
They are really dumb people
really really dumb
BTW maybe the idiots monitoring the price controlled items should look to the people right outside of the grocery store selling said priced controlled products at a 100% mark up.
idiots
Cute commercial...
Mar 12th, 2014 - 01:00 am - Link - Report abuse 0The Niva has had, and apparently still does have a great reputation for ruggedness. The mining companies here however swear by the indestructible Hilux.
My first car was a Lada sedan... I still have nightmares about it.
the lada sedan... it was like a fiat 125 but done with 20 years late.
Mar 12th, 2014 - 01:12 am - Link - Report abuse 0anyway the niva was a good option
it was like the poor man´s land rover in those years.
Hello
Mar 12th, 2014 - 01:56 am - Link - Report abuse 0For those following the subject, another good review of Argentina's o/g industry, VM, YPF and petrol populism was published today...
Mar 12th, 2014 - 02:41 am - Link - Report abuse 0http://www.lanacion.com.ar/1670980-una-alternativa-al-populismo-petrolero
Hello Truth_shall_be_trolled idiot. I am so glad some idiot Argentine w ants to chime i n
Mar 12th, 2014 - 03:22 am - Link - Report abuse 0This fellow is the mug that caused it al to happen under the current administration of Argentina.
Mar 12th, 2014 - 04:07 am - Link - Report abuse 0TWIMC
Mar 12th, 2014 - 05:45 am - Link - Report abuse 0http://www.lanacion.com.ar/1670980-una-alternativa-al-populismo-petrolero
The last paragraph of the above article could have been written by yours truly...
The rest of it seems to be written by a Turnipy Offspring of one of my lesser intelligent old comrades from Tacuara...
But are “technically recoverable reserves” whose production costs are still to be seen and may return non-commercial development.
Mar 12th, 2014 - 10:54 am - Link - Report abuse 0This is the most telling line in the article.
Nobody knows whether it can be recovered profitably. Note the term profitably.
Remember nobody is going to create new machinery, technology etc ony to have it stolen once the oil starts pumping.
Not going to happen.
You all might as well forget about this until after the K are gone and probably for the next 20 yrs afterwards.
Private estimates are 60% yoy inflation( so far). Is it any wonder nobody wants a 30% raise?
Hahahahahaha
THE POWER OF MYTHS.
Mar 12th, 2014 - 02:46 pm - Link - Report abuse 0After reading the comments of many people in this website, i am not surprised for the way that most them buy so easily the myths about argentina's situation. In fact, a lot of people here still think that 100 years ago, argentina was a rich nation, but since peronism, it started declining. I already explained in another comment that while it is true that arg. was the seventh economy of the world in that time, however most that opulence was enjoined by the richest sector of the society, but most people lived in very bad conditions, beside, the parasitary burguesy didn't use most that properity in order to industrialize the country.
Another myth, is that chile is more developed than argentina in economic and social terms, when actualy it's very relative, due to some indexes are better in chile, and others are better in argentina, in fact, although chile didn't have any of the disastrous crisis that we had in different moments, and beyond it could improve it's social indexes in a signifficant number since1990, it still doesn't have public universities, beside, it's the unequalest country of the region in term of incomes, and it's considered like one of the worst of the world. In the case of arg., after two decades and a half of neoliberal policies (1976-2002) which provoked high levels of poverty and unemployment, since 2003 it could improve all it's social indexes so much, beside, it's recovering many of the recources that it had lost previously.
Another myth, is that inflation problem in arg. is based mostly on monetary emission, and high publice expenditures, when actualy it has to do also with the abuse that oligoplic sectors usually commit, in an economy like our's, which is mostly oligopolic and foreign.
In the last 6 years, monetary emission had periods where it was higher, and others where it was lower, however, inflation level has always remained high. It shows that the problem is much more complicated than the typical too partial lectures.
Axel, Are you planning on eating cat food this year?
Mar 12th, 2014 - 03:50 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“In fact, a lot of people here still think that 100 years ago, argentina was a rich nation, but since peronism, it started declining. ”
Mar 12th, 2014 - 03:55 pm - Link - Report abuse 0No, its not that I “think” it was, I know it was a rich nation and since Peronism came to power it started declining as a fact.
In the late XIX Century and early 1900s everybody was poor you useless fake historian, there was only 3 or 4 industrial powers at the time Great Britain, France, the US and Prussia/German Empire... It was in these very countries were communit ideology originated from. Get a clue idiot pretty much everywhere in the world the masses were poor at the time, but you could go to the new world and become very rich and have a life you could have only dreamed about in Europe...If these oligarchs were so keen on ecxploiting immigrants why did the italians, yugoslavs, spaniards keep comming.... They would arrieve at the Hotel de inmigrantes in Bs As and were given milk and beef just for breakfirst and for free in those days. Back in Italy they would only eat meat once a year
Geez you are so stupid and brainwashed axel !!!! You dont deserve a inflation adjustment. What a waste of money you are.. Cant you see that Chileans are spending less on education as a % of GDP and have better PISA levels than Argentina has??
@Axel
Mar 12th, 2014 - 05:03 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Until a couple of days ago you were saying that we didn't have basic health care - you had the good grace to accept that was a mistake.
You are, however mistaken again, you say:
“chile didn't have any of the disastrous crisis that we had in different moments”.
We had the most disastrous crisis. We had a communist government, then a dictatorship. The correct economic policies weren't in place until the mid 80s. Since then we have grown at an average of 5% / year. I am sorry to say that is when “neo liberal” policy was implemented.
You are also wrong to say that it is a “myth” that “that chile is more developed than argentina”. It is quite a well established view and easy to defend. You have to remember that countries like ours are not developed like advanced nations and there are still pockets of the “3rd world” in our countries. You therefore have to look at the overall picture and indicators produced by international organisations, not INDEC.
So, lets start at the top with some indicators. Life expectancy is a good indication of development. People in more developed countries tend to live longer on average:
Chile: 79.5 year (rank 36)
Arg: 76 (rank 60)
Source UN
Infant mortality is also a good indicator. More developed nations tent to prioritize health care to infants:
Chile ranked 44
Arg ranked 60
Source UN
Corruption: with few exceptions endemic corruption is an impediment to development:
Chile rank 22
Argentina rank 106
Source transparency international
Economic freedom:
Chile rank 7
Argentina rank 166
Source Heritage foundation (Argentina is actually in the “Repressed” category).
UN Human Development Index
Chile rank 40
Argentina rank 45
Innovation: another indicator of development.
Chile ranked 46
Argentina 56
Source: Global Innovation Index
Economic Competitiveness:
Chile rank 28
Argentina rank 55
Source: Swiss International Institute for Management Development
I am out of space for “myth” busting.
To be continued...
Kicillof and his disastrous record in nationalized Aerolineas and YPF after the confiscation... This explains to the K trolls why YPF is having a slight increase in shares and production... Since 2008 YPF was practically intervened and was obliged to give in petrol at the cheaper price of the market. Since April 2012 YPF was flexibilized and allowed to set up prices more according to market. So by November last, prices of YPF petrol per liter had risen to $9 ( in April 2012 before confiscation they were only at $5,50)
Mar 12th, 2014 - 05:24 pm - Link - Report abuse 0http://www.eltrecetv.com.ar/periodismo-para-todos/los-numeros-de-kicillof_065412
”Economy Minister Axel Kicillof argued that Argentina does not have serious economic problems, but rather “complexities, difficulties and challenges,” ..........
Mar 12th, 2014 - 05:47 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Mr. Euphemist, who d'you think you're kidding ??
Axel,
Mar 12th, 2014 - 06:30 pm - Link - Report abuse 0One hundred years ago, Argentina WAS a rich nation. Income inequality existed in ALL COUNTRIES.
“Argentine opulence was enjoined by the richest sector of the society” especially by Juan and Evita
Accurate indexes are better in Chile, and fabricated indexes are better in Argentina.
“Chile didn't have any of the disastrous crisis that we had in different moments...” No, since 1990 nothing...other than just a 6.8 earthquake, a deadly tsunami, copper market insecurity, a cholera outbreak, labor unrest, Argentina cutting off our natural gas supplies after building a pipeline over the Andes as well as you violating several trade treaties. (Don't even dream to ask about prior to 1990...)
Chile doesn't have public universities...??? Just where are you getting your information... Same place where is says that Chile has no public healthcare???
“Chile is unequalest country of the region in term of incomes, and it's considered like one of the worst of the world.” Countries like North Korea, Bangladesh, Iraq, Zimbabwe, Somalia and Haiti all have better rankings.
The “Chicago Boys” came up with an interesting theory that it all revolves around the reserves of the central bank, the external debt and the interest that has to be serviced, the amount of taxes collected, the governmental expenditures, the domestic product, the trade balance, and the issuance of new currency. That's why they insisted that Chile's Central Bank was to be independent of politicians. They also insisted on encouraging foreign investment and export.
“In the last 6 years, monetary emission had periods...” ...Well this one is much more complicated because both the IMF and I don't know if you're referring to the real statistics or the fabricated ones, and do not know how many millions was illegally emissioned from Venezuela and how many billions were emissioned to El Calafate.
Condorito: Very excellent post.
@ Chicureo
Mar 12th, 2014 - 07:03 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Thank you for picking up the baton.
...to continue the “myth” busting trilogy....
Axel, you say:
“Another myth, is that inflation problem in arg. is based mostly on monetary emission, and high publice expenditures, when actualy it has to do also with the abuse that oligoplic sectors usually commit, in an economy like our's, which is mostly oligopolic and foreign.”
Controlling inflation is one of the most important if not the pre-eminent function of a central bank. They have all the tools to do it. Blame for inflation can only be placed at the door of the central bank. If the oligarchs are setting monetary policy, forget all the development indicators above and start asking if you are living in a banana republic.
Axel,
Mar 12th, 2014 - 07:17 pm - Link - Report abuse 0We thinks you should go against CFK at the next election,
you are just what Argentine needs..
(76) Condorito
Mar 12th, 2014 - 08:23 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I can see that, after checking a serious source as the UN ”Human Development Index”.... and finding out that Argentina is not ”sooooo bad after all” …
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_Human_Development_Index#Very_high_human_development
You had to use one of your ”Momio Sources” as the ”Heritage Foundation” to find some consolation........…. Tsk tsk…
Ahhhhhh…. And just for your info… There are no ”Japanese Hilux’es no more…
They are ALL made in Argentina, China, Pakistan, South Africa Thailand or Venezuela…
(79) Chicureo
You say...:
“Accurate indexes are better in Chile, and fabricated indexes are better in Argentina.”
I say...:
Well.... Don't be so modest.... After the Piñera administration, one could say that.... “That's a truth with modifications”....
Please tell me...., what was the inflation rate of last year, again ....?
Please tell me...., how many poor Chileans are there, again....?
Please tell me...., how many Chileans are there, again....?
Chuckle chuckle
BCRA is still throwing U$ away daily trying to support the peso.
Mar 12th, 2014 - 08:41 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Foolish foolish people
When will they learn that Mr Market always wins
THINK, or should I say: Madame Defarge...
Mar 12th, 2014 - 08:55 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I imagine you'd have great satisfaction in cutting off Piñera's head for his apparent manipulation of numbers. It was foolish and un welcomed, but then you should burn CFK at the stake for her altering official statistics...
Speaking of the Hilux, the Japanese are concentrating on higher margin manufacturing, just like VW has their truck assembled in Mendoza for the same reason. We're very happy with ours...
@ Think
Mar 12th, 2014 - 09:43 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I know the Hilux is no longer made in Japan that is why I specified the “Jap Hilux”. Since they have started assembling them in Argentina, the mining industry has fallen out of love with it.
I agree with you re the UN HDI. The point to note there is that Argentina is going down and Chile is going up. Don't lose perspective here, I am not saying Chile is a developed nation. We are not. I am saying that a whole lot of “Momio” policy has dragged us up and even past most countries in the region, which is a modest achievement.
Unfortunately we are losing exit velocity and if Bachelet chases of investment by putting too much tax on enterprise we will be stuck in the quagmire with you.
Economic freedom: are you saying that the Momio foundation is inaccurately reporting this data or are you saying that because it is a momio foundation economic freedom is meaningless?
If you have ever created and/or run businesses that create employment for others you would know that economic freedom is the oxygen of enterprise.
@ yankeeboy
They will learn when the money runs out.
AXEL@73...You complain that people lambast you without reason; Then why do you insist on writing untruths about Chile, like “”it's the unequalest country of the region in term of incomes, and it's considered like one of the worst of the world”.....Don't know where you've put you head, but quite frankly I suspect it's where the sun don't shine. I was in Chile twice last year and once in Argentina (Buenos Aires and Mendoza)...Although the wineries in Mendoza afforded interesting visits, the difference in the general populations' feelings with regards to the future, was so much better in Chile....in Buenos Aires, although I like the city, it was depressing to listen to the complaints about the government, from anybody you approached. Keep kidding yourself if you want, but one day you'll wake up and see that Argentina was f****d the day that Peron and Evita came to power.....and with TMBOA, it won't improve anytime soon. For which, I am sorry.
Mar 12th, 2014 - 09:46 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I think “Think” and the other trolls should wash their mouth before further talking about this subject... Argentina stinks of failure and decline on regional stage.
Mar 12th, 2014 - 10:02 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Foreign reserves of the Regions Central Bank's
Chile 45. 455 MM USD ( 50% increase from January 2011)
Argentina 27. 908 MM USD (47% decrease from January 2011)
Others....
Peru 65.780 MM USD
Colombia 43.233 MM USD
http://www.infobae.com/2014/02/05/1541680-los-paises-la-region-suman-reservas-menos-la-argentina
@87 CD
Mar 12th, 2014 - 10:24 pm - Link - Report abuse 0And I don't think that 45 MM USD includes the 22MM USD of liquid assets held in the counter cyclical foreign reserve fund. The aim of which is to flatten out the ups and down of our export dependent economy.
The Argentinians must be idiots if they believe this idiot who have no concept of economics and who nominated him? Another moron I think they call her president.
Mar 12th, 2014 - 10:31 pm - Link - Report abuse 0What a sad story of a country Argentina have become they are the joke of the 21st century.
(85) Condorito
Mar 12th, 2014 - 10:43 pm - Link - Report abuse 01) Are Hiluxes not good enough for the Shilean miners?
Let them drive Cayennes then....
2) Chile's HDI index is going up indeed....
So is Argentina's..... Stop arguing against facts.
3) What I am saying is that the Momio Foundation is reporting the data they want in the way they want, therefore it is meaningless...
4) You surely know, being in the wine business and all that, that oxygen can be a very aggressive and damaging agent...
As “El Pocho” said many, many years ago....: “Todo en su medida y armoniosamente”...
90) Callate Forro!!!
Mar 12th, 2014 - 10:51 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The UN uses INDEC numbers what else do you expect ??
Condorito is in the wine business? ... Tamaya, Tabali, Capel, Pisco Control???
Mar 12th, 2014 - 10:54 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Where in Elqui?
Comment removed by the editor.
Mar 12th, 2014 - 11:23 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@Think
Mar 13th, 2014 - 12:27 am - Link - Report abuse 01) Miners, like the Taliban, like the Jap Hilux. Now they like more the Mitsubishi L200 (still 100% Jap).
2) Yes, but in 1980 Argentina was ranked 33rd now it is 45th. Stop twisting facts.
3) And what would be the motivation of the momio foundation to select such countries as Denmark, Singapur, Hong Kong, etc and hold them up as examples of economic freedom?
4) If CFK agree with “El Pocho” she will be letting some oxygen in to the Argie economy as outlined @19.
@ Chicureo
A major consumer.
The anti-argies here have gone utterly insane. Their comments are atrociously off-the mark.
Mar 13th, 2014 - 02:28 am - Link - Report abuse 0“Argentina joke of the world in the 21st century”
“Argentina in the process of africanization”
“collapsing HDI”
and blah blah blah.
It's to the point where even I won't bother responding to them.
@95 - eh, you just did. Albeit not a direct response, you've still responded though.
Mar 13th, 2014 - 02:51 am - Link - Report abuse 0I think the real issue is that many people feel terrible for the normal Argentines who have to put up with corrupt incompetent governance and the Malvinistas.
If Argentina started to behave responsibly and in accordance with the UN principles of self determination, gave up their imperialist dreams, and were able to pay back the money they have blatantly stolen from investors, then we'd all give Argentina a big round of applause for returning to the International community and for being a positive force in the world.
Unfortunately all we get is lies, lies, more lies, thievery, aggression, mis-direction and more lies.
Come on normal Argentines, it is about time you pushed for change.
@96
Mar 13th, 2014 - 03:14 am - Link - Report abuse 0The problem there is that neither of your “conditions” are even followed by Europe or the USA. Both committed terrible financial crimes by stealing trillions from investors during the sovereign debt/subprime bubble, and still have not paid a cent back of all the money lost.
As for imperialist dreams, Europe and North America are surely the last people on Earth to be enforcing its elimination.
Sort of like the alcoholic enforcing dry-driving laws.
To have an idea of CD's reaction to reading Think, axel and Dany Berger, et al....
Mar 13th, 2014 - 03:31 am - Link - Report abuse 0http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QrKSM0lfRWs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QrKSM0lfRWs
(94) Condorito
Mar 13th, 2014 - 05:47 am - Link - Report abuse 0You must be ”A Mayor consumer” indeed…. But apparently not of the truth…
Didn’t your Mamá taught you that half lies are still lies?
Anyhow, you say…:
“Yes, but in 1980 Argentina was ranked 33rd, now it is 45th. Stop twisting facts.”
I say…:
HOW IN EARTH could Argentina rank 33rd on the HDI of 1980…..when the HDI first came into existence in the 1990’s…???
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_Development_Index#Origins
By the way….. If you look at the HDI adjusted by inequality, things look even better for both our People….. Groovy...:-)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_Development_Index#Origins
Looking forwards to Mami’s visit to Argentina to discuss more brotherly integration… (And to see her lovely daughter in BUE).
97 the_Truth_shall_B_Trolld
Mar 13th, 2014 - 08:48 am - Link - Report abuse 0“The problem there is that neither of your “conditions” are even followed by Europe or the USA”
Still blaming other countries for your failings are we tobi?
Like I said before, the tag may change, the s**t doesn't. It's time you grew up.
By the way, Love the tag you've chosen this time round, never a truer word. It suits you to a T.
@97 - economic dominance cannot be put in the same category as imperialism. Yes Europe and North America dominate economically.
Mar 13th, 2014 - 09:54 am - Link - Report abuse 0I'm sure your next response will be along the lines of Iraq and Afghanistan. Unfortunately these were a necessary strategic power plays to ensure the world remains free from pretty messed up ideologies. Interestingly I read Russia had killed 1.5mil in Afghanistan compared to just over 100,000 people by the US and UK lead forces.
It looks as though the countries have remained in the hands of the people though and their institutions. Hardly imperialism now is it.
All other last transgressions you and your previous tags have been someway off in the pages of history. Argentina's attempts at imperialism is happening now, in 2014.
I think you guys need to take a long hard look in the mirror.
I also hear your favourite brotherly Latam nation (chuckles) Venezuela is considering having the protectors of the free world (chuckles again) Russia setting up lots of lovely military bases.
You couldn't make this stuff up.
You crazy ideologies keep rising up to plunge the world into the corrupt dark ages, a we the sensible folk of the world will crush you, as we always have.
Love the HDI and the IHDI.
Mar 13th, 2014 - 10:06 am - Link - Report abuse 0Just think, without Peronism, Argentina could have had a rank similar to Australia's.
Between Norway and Sweden.
Not between Ukraine and Kazakhstan.
From an article in mdzol: “Unlike other challenges faced by the emerging markets, the difficulties of the Argentina have been inflicted by herself, resulting from bad governance, corruption, lack of transparency, and the progress of authoritarianism”, he says.
Mar 13th, 2014 - 11:08 am - Link - Report abuse 0Little mysterious condor:
Mar 13th, 2014 - 11:26 am - Link - Report abuse 0“@ Chicureo
A major consumer.”
Could you enlighten me what that means?
One can also put it this way..........half a century of war in Colmbia has proven less devastating than half a Century of peronism in Argentina..
Mar 13th, 2014 - 11:29 am - Link - Report abuse 0#Colombia3ndEconomyofLatam
@103 how can Argentinians go on with the abuse inflicted by their government if this was in Paraguay Oh noooo Paraguayans will not take the abuse from the lefties communist pretending to care about social issues and rob the country of fiscal land some estimates are that a size of the island of Manhattan was confiscated or bought at ridiculous price by the so call president.
Mar 13th, 2014 - 11:34 am - Link - Report abuse 0La campora is the instrument of brain washing the poor people of Argentina too many young people in Argentina that is why they are able to pull this sham.
@ 99 Think
Mar 13th, 2014 - 12:36 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“HOW IN EARTH could Argentina rank 33rd on the HDI of 1980…..when the HDI first came into existence in the 1990’s…???”
Wiki is good for much, but sometimes you need to go to the horses mouth:
https://data.undp.org/dataset/Table-2-Human-Development-Index-trends/efc4-gjvq
The HDI formula was devised in 1990, that doesn't mean you can punch in data from earlier years to get the HDI prior to 1990. Keep up Think.
So .... in 1980, as previously stated Argentina ranked 33 - nine places above Chile.
Which brings me back to the original point of the list of indicators: to question Axel's assertion that it was a “myth” that Chile was more developed than Argentina.
Would you not agree Think that it is not a “myth”?
@Chicureo
I only intended to say that I am prone to occasionally over consume the wonderful fermented grape juice of the Limari and Elqui valleys.
Think likes to point out irrelevant info in posts then blow them out of proportion as it relates to the overall theme of the post.
Mar 13th, 2014 - 01:02 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Look to any statistic, murder rate, economy, standard of living, education, healthcare, poverty, democracy anything that counts that a country of people are doing better.
All of them show the steady consistent decline of Argentina since Peron.
All of them
The living standard of Rgs will be more like Bolivia than the USA in the next decade.
There is nothing that will change that projection
Nothing
Inflation in speeding up.
Wages are not keeping up
Crime is getting worse
and it will get even worse as people start to lose their jobs
Whatever meager increase they may have in SOY gains will be offset by the loss of revenue from car exports.
Lots of people work in the car mfgs
Mark my words, this will probably by the final straw for them. Once they close they'll close for good.
Argentina can't make up those jobs or revenue
Cat food para todos
All I read here from the needy posters is how X country is better than Argentina.
Mar 13th, 2014 - 02:31 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Reminds me of something the Mexicans say about the weaker central American sides that sruggle to get to the world cup. They claim their mentality is:
“Al mundial no vamos pero a Mexico le ganamos”
It doesn't rime in English but it means: “We won't go to the World Cup, but at least we beat Mexico”.
That's the mentality here:
“My country is full of economic, social, crime, mass shooting, natural disaster, political, secessionist, or financial problems, but at least we are better than Argentina!”
hahahahahaha. Small feats for small minds.
Condorito:
Mar 13th, 2014 - 02:41 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I'm starting to lose respect for you. You can never OVER CONSUME the wonderful nectar of those valleys.
My problem is that my consciousness limits my capacity, but the desire is unlimited.
...well alright, perhaps I'm exagerating a bit...
Now a serious personal question: what wine paring would you suggest with cabrito?
@106
Mar 13th, 2014 - 02:47 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The Young people of Argentina finding Europe and North América repulsive societies and eschewing them is not brainwashing, it is called “having read a history book”.
111. That's odd since there's lots and lots of RGs moving to the USA UK and Eu to work in demeaning jobs while escaping the Art Paradise?
Mar 13th, 2014 - 03:49 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Why do you think that is?
Lots and lots? Hardly.
Mar 13th, 2014 - 03:59 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Some move out, and some move in. Why do the ones that move in leave your “paradises”, if its so much better?
And those that do still find your ways repulsive, but we'll make a bucks from you thank you very much.
CABEZA DURA. CHICUREO. CONDORITO. JACK BAUER.
Mar 13th, 2014 - 04:11 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Although it's hightly difficult to talk to such a reactionary guy like cabeza dura, i'll recommend him again to learn from condorito, who doesn't need to insult me or to underestimate me, in order to express that he doesn't agree on my opinions.
I don't ignore that 100 years ago, arg. wasn't much less unequal than france, the u. k., etc etc, however i think that some of you have a very clumsy way to measure the development and the richness of the nations. In my opinion i think that the most important is equality, otherwise, what was the proud of having had such a rich country, where most people lived in very bad conditions, due to most that opulence was enjoyed by the richest sectors?, what was the proud of having had a country, which was actualy an agrarian english colony, where the empire handled most our economy?, what was the proud of having had a country where almost there were no social laws, and where all elections were won with scandalous frauds?, if some of you misses that context, i respect it, but for me it was just shameful.
Despite all the serious problems that we still have, i will always prefer the actual context, than the one of 1900.
On the other hand, peron wasn't the first president who took measures on behalf of workers, it was actualy hipolito irigoyen (1916-1922, 1928-1930), who was also as hated as peron was, by the richest sectors of the society.
Respecting chile, i recognize that i should have clarified that chile didn't have any disastrous crisis in the last 25 years, like arg. had in 1989 and 1990. On the other hand, in relation to the achievements that chile got, and it's unequality in term of incomes, you already know what i think about it.
Respecting inflation, as i said in my comment 73, the problem includes also the factors i mentioned, not just monetary emission, as often read in all the partial lectures that are usually published in the press.
@ Chicureo
Mar 13th, 2014 - 04:57 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I would go straight for a Syrah, of course local, like the Falernia Syrah Reserva. Full bodied, pepper and spices just right for goat's strong flavour and enough tannin to balance the fat. Further, the bouquet of a summer evening in the Elqui valley will make the goat feel at home.
@Axel
Equality is a relative measure. A very poor country can be very equal and a very rich country can be unequal. Inequality is so much less important than poverty.
“Inequality is so much less important than poverty”
Mar 13th, 2014 - 05:00 pm - Link - Report abuse 0That sums up the Chilean value system. Same mentality as in Brazil.
#116
Mar 13th, 2014 - 05:09 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Exactly! You my dear socialist arse would prefer for everyone live in equal poverty, such as Cuba where they pay doctors $30 a month...uld say
...oh you would say, that's a poor example. Pick one South American country other than Uruguay, where there is not only better equality, but less poverty.
As Think has pointed out, the Chilean poverty statistics may be squewed,
@116
Mar 13th, 2014 - 05:31 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“That sums up the Chilean value system.”
It sums up a sane value system.
It doesn't bother me in the least that there are people with 100s, 1000s 1.000.000s times my wealth.
But it does bother me that there are people in poverty.
I wasn't judging the Chilean or Brazilian, or Mexican value system, I was just stating the facts. I never said whether I find it good bad or in between.
Mar 13th, 2014 - 05:49 pm - Link - Report abuse 0CabezaDura2@98..... raises a simple question : if an average Argentine can react so emotionally to the result of a soccer match, why do they out up with all the s**t coming from Cristina ?? what's the matter with them ??
Mar 13th, 2014 - 05:50 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@111 TruthTellingTroll, yr statement “The Young people of Argentina finding Europe and North América repulsive societies, etc..” is so far from the truth that it's pathetic , and re-writing history IS brainwashing ; Anyway, just go to Manhattan (NYC in case you don't know), or even better, to Miami : It is so full of Argies you wouldn't believe it...It seems that those who “find Europe & N.America repulsive”, are the envious ones who have no hope of leaving Argentina, even if for a short vacation, to be able to experiment some of the better things life can offer.
And I have to agree with Condorito @ 115..”“Inequality is so much less important than poverty”.....in a rich country , with inequality, the poor can still aspire to a better life - provided they believe in hard work and not in food stamps etc - now, in a country where EVERYONE is poor, not a chance.
(107) Condorito
Mar 13th, 2014 - 06:06 pm - Link - Report abuse 0https://data.undp.org/dataset/Table-2-Human-Development-Index-trends/efc4-gjvq , you say....
Uyuyuyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy......., how ”trendy”…
Hermanito… Statistical data is like a good bottle of wine…. You must avoid getting blended by the price and fancy label and analyze it in depth…. Let’s see what results those UN wiz kids have accomplished by “punching old data in new bottles”…. Shall we…?
Year 1980…:
34) Argentina, HDI: 0.675
42) Chile, HDI: 0.638 / (0.037 lower than Argentinas)
Year 2012…:
40) Chile, HDI: 0.819 / (0.008 higher than Argentinas)
45) Argentina, HDI: 0.811
As we can see Chile has, in the last 33 years, increased its HDI with 0.181.
Likewise, Argentina has, in the last 33 years, increased its HDI with 0.173.
In my humble opinion...
Well done by both our Countries, pursuing a common goal by different ways...
@119 toby
Mar 13th, 2014 - 06:12 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“I wasn't judging the Chilean or Brazilian, or Mexican value system, I was just stating the facts”
No you weren't stating a fact.
You were implying that my values can be taken as Chilean values.
Chile has just elected a president who campaigned on increasing equality and has stated it as one of the principle aims of her terms. You could therefore conclude that Chilean values are the very opposite of what you state they are as a matter of fact.
121. Chile is getting richer and lifting more people out of poverty, while Argentina as a whole and its citizens are getting poorer faster.
Mar 13th, 2014 - 06:22 pm - Link - Report abuse 0It is not the same goal by any stretch of the imagination.
Toby, There are lots and lots of Rgs living in NYC Miami, Houston, it is hard to say exactly how many since illegals don't like to register but it a far greater percentage of the population as a whole as any USA citizen living in Argentina. I lived there and barely ever ran into another American that lived there permanently. I am sure the same goes for the EU.
@121 Think
Mar 13th, 2014 - 06:36 pm - Link - Report abuse 0That's right, a UN index on the UN website. Glad you liked it.
Since I had the good spirit to help you along that road though (discarded) “momio” data and UN data, to arrive at your own conclusion that Chile has risen in human development terms more than Argentina both relatively and absolutely ... will you be able to walk the final meter alone and reject the notion that Chile's improving development is a “myth”?
(124) Condorito
Mar 13th, 2014 - 06:58 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You say...:
“Will you be able to walk the final meter alone and reject the notion that Chile's improving development is a “myth”?”
I say...:
When have I ever said otherwise?
Very Important...!
To my hermanitos Shilenos….
Pa’l cabrito asado me permito recomendar un tinto tranquilo pero no aburrido… Un “Reserva Del Fin Del Mundo, Malbec 2010, por ejemplo….
http://www.bodegadelfindelmundo.com/nuestros-vinos.html
Despues me cuentan….
Think, you have neglected to update everyone from you last post:
Mar 13th, 2014 - 07:11 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Blue is back to 11/1
I thought Dany said nobody wanted it?
Cat food para todos.
@ 125 Think
Mar 13th, 2014 - 07:28 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Never saying otherwise is not the same as saying somethingwise.
...
I'll see if I can find your Patagonian Malbec at the local wine specialist.
Is wine subject to export tax?
“Think” @125....for once gotta agree with you...“Bodega del fin del mundo” is indeed a good winery...while their “special blend” reserva (cab-sauv, malbec & merlot) is fantastic, their entry line “Postales” is also pretty good. I had their wine for the first time in 2007 (special blend, 2004 vintage), and since then have always had it in my cellar.
Mar 13th, 2014 - 07:59 pm - Link - Report abuse 0(127) Condorito
Mar 13th, 2014 - 08:40 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You say...:
“Never saying otherwise is not the same as saying somethingwise.”
I say...:
You sound like Yayita.....
axel
Mar 13th, 2014 - 08:44 pm - Link - Report abuse 0As aI posted on the other thread of “Dont cry for me Argentina” the most important thing is the level of poverty. This is something central countries have already discussed in the 1970s and 1980s.
“What you really want is that the poor were poorer provided that the rich were poorer.”
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r2TK37ffBOs&list=PL8B4335A0D805FB7E
The inequality is relative when everybody that works hard can aspire to a good life and pass over wealth and knowledge to his children...If I had the choice of being poor in Chile or in Argentina I would be choose Chile to be poor because there is much more dignified work in Chile, not subsidies handed over by the gov't, its a established economic model and further developing and I can save money as there is not as much inflation and hyperinflation, and overall there is better education and healthcare in Chile than in Argentina. Once I can provide for myself and my family, why would I care how many money more than I do, Piñera has ??
Now these concepts are completaly alien to you axel... I know they are, you cant let go to the lies and ideas you have clustered in your mindset.
The so called “agrarian english colony” (lies) was good enough for your own grandparents... Why didnt they f*ck off back to Italy or Spain if the Anglo-criollo oligarchs were exploiting them?? why did they stay if things were so bad here he?? One of my grandparents became very well off here working for the English estancias.... No they kept coming in swarms by the millions and with them they brought anarchism, socialism, laborism, communism, fascism etc which was quite normal at the time, but then again society has remained blocked in the mentality and social class warfare of a wester 1930s country. Its time to move on from your backward thinking. Your mentality and ideas are completaly obsolete and have done much damage to this country.
130. Nobody said it better than Margaret Thatcher.
Mar 13th, 2014 - 09:04 pm - Link - Report abuse 0http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rv5t6rC6yvg
Acel is too stupid to understand you can't redistribute wealth and make poor people rich. It only makes everyone poorer.
Look at Argentina's history to see the perfect example.
131
Mar 13th, 2014 - 10:20 pm - Link - Report abuse 0And you will see in brief I will have exactly the same conversation with axel about the early 1900s that I had with paulcedron.... he will come up with the Roca-Runciman traty, the “infamous decade”, and everything was sooooo horrible in the best days Argentina ever had...
I couldn't care less if Bill Gates and Warren Buffet are rich, Making them poor isn't going to change my life one bit.
Mar 13th, 2014 - 10:22 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You'll never convince the likes of Axel he is just too stupid.
According to Forbes Magazine, in 2014 there are roughly 1700 billionaires in the world, with a total fortune of about USD 6.5 trillion. If instead of re-distribuiting wealth over a period, say, of a couple of generations, through education and opportunity, we confiscated the billionaires fortunes and divided it equally amongst all the people on Earth...that would give everyone about USD 1 thousand....how far would that get them ? through a week, a month ? and when it's gone, everyone is s**t poor, and no more wealthy people to provide jobs.....so obviously, re-distribution of wealth through confiscation, or populist measures (government handouts) is NOT the answer....it's education and investment in infrastructure....things in which LATAM is somewhat lacking.
Mar 13th, 2014 - 10:24 pm - Link - Report abuse 0133
Mar 13th, 2014 - 10:31 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Yes I know.
The tragedy about this axel guy is that he is a teacher and he is paid to lie about history and students dont pass if they suscribe and believe into his lies.
134
As one of the chileans pointed out countries like Haiti, North Korea are more “Equal” than Chile is
@129 Think
Mar 13th, 2014 - 10:33 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“You sound like Yayita.....”
Nah, I'm not always right about everything.
@131 yankee
What a great lady she was.
@132 CD
and then as now the Brits were the evil pirates on whom to blame all Argentina's woes.
@134
Well said.
Space, no serious drawbacks as a habitant except for lack of air and lack of gravity.
Mar 13th, 2014 - 10:47 pm - Link - Report abuse 0In fact the British did great things for this country, trains were modern for their age, they didn't crash nor kill people nor they cost the tax payer a cent, the desing of stations and railways lasts till this day, Bagley has being providing biscuits for generations of Argentines, the first and very best and first laic schools in Argentina were British founded and controlled, all the main sports clubs ...But that the actual Argentine history recognizes it is light years away when you have people like Axel brainwashing and keeping the system going on... The explination of this was pretty easy, Sarmiento and the liberal- conservative class of Argentina wanted them here for a obvious reason and that was to invest, build infraestracture, open bussiness and educate. The British were the most succesful and richest people of the planet back then.
Mar 13th, 2014 - 10:55 pm - Link - Report abuse 0And yet axel's starving great grandparents from Italy and Spain were eager to work for the Criollos and the British instead of staying or returning to Europe at the time... I wonder why....
@138
Mar 13th, 2014 - 11:16 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Really? All I see there to remark is that some foreigners effectuated some business dealings, not “great things”. Great things is when you perform an act out of the goodness of your heart, or when you place your own life on the plank of death to aid another in need, that sort of thing.
A business deal is just a business deal. Dry, plain, and period.
Your last paragraph is tasteless and grotesquely uncouth, pace all grotesquely uncouth paragraphs before it.
The Argentina of Sarmiento is DEAD, and it ain't coming back. It had some laudable ideals, but a hamarthia: it relied on Europe.
And then Europe stabbed us in the back when they stopped buying from that. That is the exact point in time when the economic indicators you are so fond of began their decent. But again, all countries rise and decline, and I find it tragically hilarious the North Americans and Europeans, along with some stray Australian, think they will buck the trend of history.
99% of all independent nations states that existed in history are EXTINCT. But hey, let them dream that they will still be rich (on territorially intact) in 100 years. It is a quaint quiddity of theirs.
139. That is a very strange post. Are you still drinking?
Mar 13th, 2014 - 11:28 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I have to assume your are still not in school, those bad teachers wanting to eat and keep themselves clean...la patria what about la patria. Maybe they'll be tried for treason.
Who knows in that nutty place.
Cat food para todos.
@139
Mar 14th, 2014 - 12:04 am - Link - Report abuse 0Right, so with tobylogic the British building a railway line is “just a business deal. Dry, plain, and period. ”
yet....
the British walking away from a business deal is an act of malice meriting the emotive phase “stabbed us in the back” hence no longer “”just a business deal. Dry, plain, and period.”
What is tragically hilarious is your lack of logic.
Who was talking about the railways?
Mar 14th, 2014 - 12:08 am - Link - Report abuse 0I was talking about the EXPORT ban the entirety of Europe placed on our exports, after we saved their sorry asses from starvation.
Lack of logic is better than lack of basic school attendance.
@142 toby
Mar 14th, 2014 - 12:18 am - Link - Report abuse 0“Who was talking about the railways?”
CD was talking about the railways in the post you replied to, holding it as an example of the good the Brits did. You then categorised it as “just a business deal” or are you now saying that the building of the railways was an act of kindness?
So now you “saved their sorry asses from starvation.” which I again assume was ”just a business deal. Dry, plain, and period. Right?
No, we actually saved their sorry asses because we could have just charged an exorbitant price for the food, but we didn't. Being war and all, prices tend to “rise”.
Mar 14th, 2014 - 12:25 am - Link - Report abuse 0So it was an act of kindness, that Europe promptly stabbed in the back. The Natives of three continents would know about that, ask them what it means to sign treaties with the Europeans.
I thought you said business wasn't kind.
Mar 14th, 2014 - 01:39 am - Link - Report abuse 0Which is it now
Try to keep up
Cat food para todos
Want me to send you some pate?
It was kind because we didn't price gouge.
Mar 14th, 2014 - 01:43 am - Link - Report abuse 0Who else would you have sold it to?
Mar 14th, 2014 - 02:14 am - Link - Report abuse 0You fun to play with but sometimes I feel bad that you are so stupid.
Hmmm... you say me stupid when you be stupid R.
Mar 14th, 2014 - 02:23 am - Link - Report abuse 0It's not like they had a choice, between buying argie food and your armies and your people (already suffering) starving.
I know its shocking, but people HAVE to eat. Its not like buying a drying machine.
And those soldiers were HUNGRY.
We could have charged 4 times as much. We didn't.
Kindness.
Which was met with European. A synonym for European is malice.
139
Mar 14th, 2014 - 03:24 am - Link - Report abuse 0Obviously the truth hurts you a lot and tramples over your wet delusional dreams and version of history. Im sorry but it gets worse
What “business” was there in founding futball clubs and schools??
Under your mentality the spanish and italians and other immigrants of Europe for business motives to Arg as well.... But then again they arrived starving and full of fleas and diseases... So they really came here out of need and necessity, not out of “kindness” nor for a “new future” or forge a “new country” and all that nonesence they always say about immigration....Just like in the US the irish and poles did round the same time.
Argentina was far from starving out Great Britain, who had control over....1/4 of the globe back then. Argentina exported beef, wool and leather to the UK but not grain, so they would have had prenty of wheat, potatoes, beef and wool from Canada, Australia, Ireland, New Zealand and South Africa to feed their armies...But I just dont understand you...What do you expect that the UK buy Argentine beef to perpetuity out of benevolence??? Why did Argentina stop buying Dinky toys made in England in the 1980s and switched to Hong Kong and Chinese toys that were much poorer quality but much cheaper (like everyone else in the world did at the time)??
Towards the 1930s Argentina had enough leverage, capacity and wealth accumulated to develop its own domestic market, entrepreneurial industrial class, diversify its economy and export manufactured goods to other markets like Europe, but it failed to do so mostly due to the rise of ideologies and then the out burst of peronism in the mid 40s.
A long time ago Argentina was an advanced country. Buenos Aries was the Paris of the western Hemisphere. Chile was poor. Now Chile is much more advanced than Argentina - and usually more humble. Argentina is nothing like its glory of the early 20th century. Two things haven't changed - Falkland Islands are still British & Argentinians still have big mouths.
Mar 14th, 2014 - 06:09 am - Link - Report abuse 0Poor Nostrils.
Mar 14th, 2014 - 06:53 am - Link - Report abuse 0I suppose you could say that the UK stabbed Australia in the back in 1973 when they joined the EEC and we lost trade privileges. And to think we lost 1.4% of our population in WW1 and 0.6% in WW2. And then we had war debts we had to pay back. We gave way more than Argentina did.
However instead of becoming bitter over it like Nostrils, we just diversified and moved on. And now we are richer and more prosperous than the UK and deal with them as an equal.
Life is fill of disappointments and setbacks. Only a loser let's them hold them back.
Kicillof is deluded... To much of the neo cash crop being produced... Cabeza de Tuco!!
Mar 14th, 2014 - 11:33 am - Link - Report abuse 0148. And who else would you have sold it to? Methinks you're just making stuff up as usual.
Mar 14th, 2014 - 12:05 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I hope you didn't sell all your sugar already! I know a 100% ypy return looks good but just wait it will be much more very soon.
Cat food para todos.
@151 - Australians are have always been equals with Brits. I live and work in your lovely country at the moment.
Mar 14th, 2014 - 12:07 pm - Link - Report abuse 0It's a lot of fun out here. You guys come from good stock and work your arses off.
BTW
Mar 14th, 2014 - 01:03 pm - Link - Report abuse 0”99% of all independent nations states that existed in history are EXTINCT. But hey, let them dream that they will still be rich (on territorially intact) in 100 years. It is a quaint quiddity of theirs.”
You confuse the concepts of State, Civilization and Nations in that paragraph...
Borders and new legal States are changing and appearing with every year, but the actual nations and disposition of peoples in Europe has being pretty much the same since the fall of the Roman Empire and the Dark Ages.
@149 “Towards the 1930s Argentina had enough leverage, capacity and wealth accumulated to develop its own domestic market, entrepreneurial industrial class, diversify its economy and export manufactured goods to other markets like Europe, but it failed to do so mostly due to the rise of ideologies and then the out burst of peronism in the mid 40s.”
Mar 14th, 2014 - 02:44 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Argentina never had an entepreneurial industrial class except during the Great Depresssion when protectionism was the norm. The elites were never interested in diversifying, and still aren´t. Why bother investing capital in industry when agriculture, real estate, speculation and corruption are much cheaper, safer and more profitable?
Peron at least realized industralization was needed but he failed. Today the industries are just there to provide jobs and make the people who own them rich while making horrible products. But the elites are never going to be willing to invest in industry and the middle class is never going to be wiilling to work for peanuts.
The inmigrants from Europe fled due to famine but once they arrived here they began demanding for proper democracy, holidays, paid vacations, higher wages, an 8 hour workday and all the conforts we take for granted today. It wasn´t the capitalists who gave them these benefits. Like it or not, Peron gave them. And they´ll be grateful to him forever. That´s why Peronism is still in power.
@Magnus
Mar 14th, 2014 - 03:12 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“ Today the industries are just there to provide jobs and make the people who own them rich while making horrible products.”
So if the country was prepared to compete and opened its markets those industrialists making themselves rich would have to either go out of business, or invest , or sell the business to those who would invest.
Why is Argentina terrified of competition. It might just surprise itself.
156
Mar 14th, 2014 - 03:43 pm - Link - Report abuse 0There is somethings that you are taking for granted. When you have a established and stable economy and a business friendly enviroment the entrepreneurial industrial class would have came developed by itself or foreigners would have invested and opened up factories and business as the British and German immigrants were doing in Argentina at the time. Indeed during the “import substitution” period Argentina had a brief industrialization period in the 1930s, but those factories remained attached to Argentina's protectionism and never tried out exporting manufactured goods overseas. Eventually in the early 1990s opening of markets they were a piece of meat for the Brazilian, Chinese, American and German, Japanese industries after decades of protectionism and monopolium of the Argentine market they had became too uncompetetive.
You say “proper democracy, holidays, paid vacations, higher wages, an 8 hour workday and all the conforts we take for granted today”
All these things were bound to come to Argentina one way or another without Peronism, as most of the rest of Latam and Europe achieved them as the XX Century moved on.
TruthTellingTroll, @139&142 you just prove you are an idiot. I don't know when you were born, but probably post-Peron/Evita era, and you never had the chance to see - for yourself - the shit that those two created for Argentina; you've obviously swallowed all the shit passed down to you from your poor, starving family...
Mar 14th, 2014 - 03:44 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Whether you like to admit it or not, it's a fact that most of Argentina's infrastructure was built by the British, one of the reasons why Argentina managed to do so well prior to WWII......and, your belief that Argentina sent food to Europe to help the allies war effort, out of the “goodness of their hearts”, you are seriously deluded. You can be sure that if the deal wasn't good for BOTH sides (this means Argentina), it would not have come off.
Stop reading fairy tales, numbnuts !
CONDORITO.
Mar 14th, 2014 - 03:49 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I respect your opinion, but i don't agree on it, i know that all the indexes that measure poverty, unequality, inflation etc etc are relative, but i don't think that unequality is less important than poverty, in my opinion both are equal of important, due to although you have a job, why do you have to accept that a reduced number of people in your country concentrates most national richness?, how much do you think the life standard of your people would improve if in your country there was a lower unequality in term of incomes?.
CABEZA DURA: Read what i wrote for condorito.
We won't never agree on this issue, in my opinion you have a very partial and reactionary view of argentina's situation. If you think that the measures taken by kirchnerism were so bad for the country, let me remind you that neoliberalism wasn't good in absolut either.
You have a very discriminatory opinion about the people who are helped by the state, without taking into account the fact that capitalism generates high social assimetries, then, if there is not a state which intervens on economy in order to mitigate those assimetries, there will always be signifficant sectors of the population who will be excluded of the sistem. Arg. is the country which although it has a very high taxes pressure, it spends more than any other in south america in social expenditures, in order to help vulnerable sectors, anyway i know that you consider those people like lazy ones, who just live of our taxes, like many other reactionary people think too, however, this is evident that you fail in seeing that if they were really lazy people, then how is it possible that the number of people who work without any social safe, hasn't changed in a signifficant number in the last 5 years, (34%), which is one the falencies of c. f. k's government.
Respecting my great great grondparents, i have no doubt that if they lived now, they would prefer the actual context, instead of the one of 1900.
160
Mar 14th, 2014 - 04:18 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“You have a very discriminatory opinion about the people who are helped by the state”
Please explain how this is so
You may find me “reactionary” but I find you “stupid” and “dishonest” for you cant refute me and you just keep on insisting in lies and theretical dogmas
All this theoretical talk as proven a mistake in the 1970s and 1980s in Europe and America.
You really think Argentina is Scandinavia or in road to become it...Argentina will never “swedenize itself” with populism, curruption, lack of the rule of law, insecurity, clientelism, protectionism and crony capitalism.
Huerta de Soto explains this...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5bTbWwHeoWI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5bTbWwHeoWI
Thomas Sowell on poverty and dependence
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5bTbWwHeoWI
That is your main mistake. I have already proven that Chile spending less on healthcare and education gets far better results than we do, and I can provide even more scandolus examples of countries outstripping Argentina in these fields...
”then how is it possible that the number of people who work without any social safe, hasn't changed in a signifficant number in the last 5 years, (34%), which is one the falencies of c. f. k's government.”
Because they preffer to work in a couple of changas and under the tabble and if you offer them to pay them in white they decline because they dont want to loose all the subsidies and welfare checks they get as unemplyeed. Why does one half of the country have to subsidise the other half that doesnt pay taxes?? This is just another why we will never become Sweden
@157 Most industries in Argentina are neither ready nor willing to compete. We just don´t have the capital, knowhow or spirit to do it. Without protectionism all those companies would close down or sell to foreign companies who would send all those profits overseas, and we would quickly run out of dollars. We are competitive in agriculture but our country is too big to survive only on crops.
Mar 14th, 2014 - 04:31 pm - Link - Report abuse 0There were no surprises during the 90s. Our society is just not ready for free trade, and won´t be ready for a long time.
@158 “When you have a established and stable economy and a business friendly enviroment the entrepreneurial industrial class would have came developed by itself or foreigners would have invested and opened up factories and business as the British and German immigrants were doing in Argentina at the time”
Argentina didn´t develop an industrial class and we just can´t rely exclusively on foreign companies, since then the profits and knowhow would be owned by the foreigners. Foreign investment only benefits the country when they produce for export rather than the internal market, so we could get some revenue but with our wages that is unlikely. Plus relying too much on foreign companies means you are extremely vulnerable to global crashes. Proper industrialization requires your own knowhow, hence you need your own corporations.
“All these things were bound to come to Argentina one way or another without Peronism, as most of the rest of Latam and Europe achieved them as the XX Century moved on.”
Yes, but it was Peronism who gave those benefits in Argentina, not the capitalists, and that is what matters. The people venerate Peron, not capitalism.
CABEZA DURA2.
Mar 14th, 2014 - 04:51 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I explained with solid arguments in my comment 160, the reason why i think that you have a very reactionary view respecting some aspects of arg.'s situation.
If many of those people who are helped by the state, prefer to continue to work without any social safe, because they don't want to loss the subsides, it isn't because they are lazy people, like many people often say, in fact, they are working, their true problem, is that they are very missinformed, this is evident that they don't know that if they worked in white, they would have more benefices. On the other hand, those subsides help to mitigate, unless in a partial way, the high levels of explotation that we still have in some sectors of economy.
Beside, if you really live here, can you tell me if you can live with 460 pesos that the state gives you per each child, without having the need of working unless without any social safe?.
On the other hand, which are the better results that you see in chile, if it spends less on health care and education than arg.?, don't you know that they still don't have statal universitary education?, anyway i don't invalid all the achievements that chile could get in social terms since 1990, in fact, i know that some indexs are better in chile, and others are better in arg., but even if you compare all statistics, not only those from indec, there is not a signifficant difference between the levels of poverty of both. According to the numbers of cifra-cta, poverty rate in arg. is 19% in 2013, in 2003 it was 53%, in the case of chile i think it's 16%. Anyway, unfortunately you still fail in seeing that arg. comes after 2 decades and a half of neolibralism (1976-2002), alfonsin's government couldn't do so much in order to dismantle the legacy of the dictatorship in economic terms. The policies of all those years, provoked high levels of unemployment and poverty, then, it's obvious that all those serious structural problems won't be solved totaly in 12 years.
162
Mar 14th, 2014 - 04:56 pm - Link - Report abuse 0What foreign companies actually do apart from employing people, is demand skills and specifications that are needed and other secondary materials and goods to enable production, they help open up local business that provide “insumos” and develop know-how as universities adapt and open careers for locals to enter the new markets and business.
Look what happened in China since it opened up in the 1970s to foreign investments.. They had no such thing as know-how nor a entrepreneurial class back then, it was foreign investment that brought it for free and they developed their own know how in time and local companies that appeared commenced exporting overseas and conquering new markets.
So what if the returns go away. Nowdays most of the big transnational companies have shares and owners all round the world anyway, it doesnt make sence to talk about whom they actually belong too and the passport of the owners, but where the money is actually invested in and where it is spend and where its comercial and productive activities are done.
Ill remind you that all the richest families in Argentina have their money abroad.
TWIMC
Mar 14th, 2014 - 04:59 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Let's look at some of the “Complexities and Challenges” ... Mr. Kicillof has “defused” in the past few months...
Negotiating a favorable Re-Nationalization price for YPF........√ Check
Implementing a new, correct Inflation Index.............. √ Check
Settling the $800M ICSID pending disputes...... √ Check
Defeating the Black Market Dollar..........√ Check
And today... :
Paris Club invites Argentina to debt negotiation......................√ Check
http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/03/14/argentina-debt-idUSL6N0MB2DH20140314
This Kicillof lad is “Chiquitito pero Cumplidor” ;-)))
If he continues this way....
He may very easily become a “Presidenciable”
axel
Mar 14th, 2014 - 05:22 pm - Link - Report abuse 0What you are talking about is underemployeed or subemployeed people...Between all the crony numbers only the “ni-ni” account to 2,5 million youngsters. Thats 6% of Arg population alone!! Many many people just dont work full time.
Why do you care about public uni in Chile charging fees when 70% of Chileans finish highschool in the terms they are supossed too and in Argentina only 43% and half of the others drop out and become “ni-ni”... Also Chile beats are youngsters by 8 places in the PISA tests. And to all this Chile spends less of % of GDP in education, So your point is completaly mute and beaten. I think that is clearly better results.
Also healthcare as already being proven to you by myself and other users from WHO data and CIAFACTBOOK. Chileans live longer, have better standards of living, less babies die, less people die of preventable deceases and malnutrition. You are retarded to keep up with this... The CTA is divided and those numbers belong to Hugo Yasky. And according to the Kirchnerist CTA poverty is 20% not 13%.... LIAR
http://www.clarin.com/politica/CTA-oficialista-registra-INDEC-pobreza_0_900510072.html
The Church, private consultants, universities, NGO have much higher numbers than 13% poverty.
Dont you see you are retarded, you lie, you are brainwashed??? how do you expect me to respect you ??
165. Except that Kretard created most of that mess himself with terrible recommendations to the old hag.
Mar 14th, 2014 - 05:54 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You are also spinning it to sound like the Paris club wasn't willing to talk over the last decade. I'm pretty sure all Argentina had to do was ask.
Plus I hate to burst your bubble but the IMF will have to audit. I don't see the USA. Germany or Japan conceding on that issue.
My bet is he will be in jail not long after the K gov't collapses right along with the other crooks currently in Casa Rosada.
TWIMC
Mar 14th, 2014 - 06:04 pm - Link - Report abuse 0'
Kicillof gone ”Shopping” on his luxurious vehicle…:
http://i2.wp.com/noticias.perfil.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/tapa-19341.jpg?fit=624%2C1200
Kicillof’s luxurious mansion in Uruguay…:
http://i2.wp.com/noticias.perfil.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/tapa-19341.jpg?fit=624%2C1200
Kicillof’s blonde lover…:
http://i2.wp.com/noticias.perfil.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/tapa-19341.jpg?fit=624%2C1200
;-)))
Comment removed by the editor.
Mar 14th, 2014 - 06:08 pm - Link - Report abuse 0168. Are you trying to say that since he is low class and has no taste he is not a crook?
Mar 14th, 2014 - 06:10 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I am pretty sure he has U$ sitting in a brown paper bag in his office bathroom that he forgot about too.
Marxists are all filthy lying evil crooks.
In short....
Mar 14th, 2014 - 06:15 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Kicillof rocks!
@ 165 Think
Mar 14th, 2014 - 06:39 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Great so he tidied up he own mess. At least he can learn. Now he just has to push ahead with the rest of the agenda:
- stop printing money
- reduce government spending
- stop fixing prices
- stop taxing exports
- allow repatriation of earnings
- progressively lower import tariffs
Déjà vu.
171. Gross.
Mar 14th, 2014 - 06:46 pm - Link - Report abuse 0(172)
Mar 14th, 2014 - 06:52 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“ - Stop printing money”... Already done, read the papers...
“ - Reduce government spending” ... In process, where recomendable...
“ - Stop fixing prices”... Tell the “Middlemen” about that...
“ - Stop taxing exports”... Not before a better taxation system is in place...
“- Allow repatriation of earnings”... Agree...
“ - Progressively lower import tariffs ”... Why “US” but not “Them”...?
@174
Mar 14th, 2014 - 07:24 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Half way there then.
Rock-a-billy Axel with have you rockin' up the “Momio” index in no time.
CFK will be flexibile during the World cup to reach an agreement with the Paris Club when most of the people are too hooked on something else... onging negotiations seem to be secretive
Mar 14th, 2014 - 10:49 pm - Link - Report abuse 0http://www.urgente24.com/224710-cristina-confia-en-un-acuerdo-con-paris-durante-el-mundial-en-brasil
Has the official and unofficial exchange rates aligned?
Mar 15th, 2014 - 02:40 am - Link - Report abuse 0Did I miss something?
But nice to see Argentina is finally changing direction. Seems to be now following the path that most of the non-Argentines on this forum have been preaching for several years.
Keep it up Argentina.
177
Mar 15th, 2014 - 02:49 am - Link - Report abuse 0No its a case of far to little far to late... I dont know how are they going to keep up with salaries and inflation without printing massive ammounts... Inflation will soon be catching up with the last devaluation
“This is like a pressure cooker,” said Claudia Bonilla, 54, the owner of a downtown stationery store whose costs are rising and sales falling. “I’m scared it’s going to explode.”
Mar 15th, 2014 - 02:17 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Psst I think she is right at least I hope she is right.
Patiently waiting and watching from afar.
There are lots and lots of bad news about Argentina in the civilized world.
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/03/14/world/americas/rocketing-prices-confound-an-argentina-racked-by-inflation.html?_r=0
Axel
Mar 15th, 2014 - 07:40 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Without going into an endless debate about the term “reactionary”, it is expectable that people will have a “reaction” to all the nonsense pouring down from these clowns.
176 CD2
That is why I really hope we get disqualified from the cup right at the start.
Now Axel, you can call me a Sepoy all that you want after this one.
CABEZA DURA.
Mar 15th, 2014 - 11:16 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I don't think you are retarded, brainwashed, or an idiot who doesn't deserve to be respected, just because you date clarin as a serious source.
Anyway if i were you, i would never do it, because in my opinion, it's not a serious source in absolut.
If i talk about chile, is because i don't buy so easily the myth that everything is better there. Although i don't deny that some indexes are better there, its also true that the difference between both countries isn't signifficant in most aspects. In fact, you provided numbers once, but don't forget that the they still don't have statal universitary educaton, beside, arg.'s lowest salary (salario mínimo vital y movil), is the higuest of the region after venezuela, on the other hand, unequality in term of incomes is much worse in chile than in arg. Don't forget either that arg. has a much more industrialized economy, and it's the nation of south america which spends the most in social expenditures, in order to help vulnerable sectors.
On the other hand, i said that poverty is 19%, not 13%. Beside, what is really pathetic, is that you don't omit that cta is pro kirchnerist, however when you date articles from clarin or la nación, you never say that they are detractors of kirchnerism, who often make mediatic operations, you aren't stupid and you know it.
Respecting the people who still don't work full time, you omitted to say that there is a 33% of workers who don't have any social safe, although the number was 50% in 2003, it's still too hight.
On the other hand, don't forget to take into account the facts that happened in the country since 1976-2002, because it will help you to understand the challenges that the country still has.
TARQUIN: The difference between you and me, is that i don't invalid all those people who don't think like me, as you often do with my lectures.
Beside, i call sepoys to all those people who side the enemy in a conflict, when did you side an enemy of our country in a conflict?.
181
Mar 16th, 2014 - 12:38 am - Link - Report abuse 0Clarin doesnt actually lie about the facts and numbers. It may be that the headlines are written in a partial way but that is all and nothing compared to the abuse and lies of the Statal media and the para statal media in Argentina.
678, Duro de domar, VHM's bajada de linea and all the other sepoys of the media are liars and the official inquisition of the independent press.
Why would the people that work in black wont to pay taxes?? They earn more dont loose all the subsidies ( because I hope you dont deny that they have various different “planes” or subsidies per household) and work less, the Punteros give them a house and assure them any hospital caring they need.
I'm not saying that they live a nice and comfortable life but that is completaly understandable why they will never want to work in white and they will
“Keep calm
and
vote Peronism”
That Chile has already overcome Argentina is a fact... You keep on denying as a throughback you are. With 900 bn dollars that came into the state in the last 10 years, 1200% tax increase in pesos you would believe that something substantial has being achieved in the road to “Swedinization” what you call “neoliberalism” as being out of the gov't for almost 12 years dummy boy.
http://csis.org/multimedia/audio-citizen-security-argentina-trends-and-regional-implications
Mar 16th, 2014 - 12:41 pm - Link - Report abuse 0It's long but take a listen about the huge increase in crime under the Ks.
CABEZA DURA2.
Mar 16th, 2014 - 09:07 pm - Link - Report abuse 0If you prefer believing that clarin just lies in it's headlines, as any other newspaper usually does, without making the daily mediatic operations, which lies are often refuted by the government with solid arguments, then perhaps you should start thinking that you aren't less retarded than what you accuse me.
On the other hand, the so called official advertising represents just the 10% of the whole advertisings, then, it's evident that freedom of press doesn't depend mostly on it. Anyway i know that the government is accused of making an unequal distribution of it.
Beside, I don't believe neather in neutrality, nor in independence, because everybody has an idology, and all journalists have right to defend it. I only believe in intellectual honesty, in fact what i like of the programmes that you mentioned, is that although they are pro k, however their members make also hard critics to the government everyday, which shows their intellectual honesty.
Beside, i agree on what you think respecting maria o'donnell, she is a good journalist, what i like from her, is that beyond she is not kirchnerist, however she doesn't reply clarin's mediatic operations, in order to criticise a government that she doesn't like, she is not a cretin like many other of her colleagues, who just repeat clarin's operations, or la nacion's.
On the other hand, this is evident that you are too backward in order to discuss about something so complicated like our social situation, and the partial comparisons that you make with chile.
As long as you keep not seeing that the structural serious problems that we still have, after two decades and a half of neoliberal policies that provoked high levels of poverty and unemployment, won't be solved totaly in 12 years, then it's evident that talking to you will be a waste of time.
Respecting the word sepoy, it can be used only for those cretins compatriots who side the adversaries of our country in a conflict, you can find many of them here.
Clarin doesnt lie fact and numbers. I only said its headlines may be partialist written, but that is..
Mar 16th, 2014 - 09:33 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“which lies are often refuted by the government with solid arguments, then perhaps you should start thinking that you aren't less retarded than what you accuse me.”
I think a dead man can pull a more solid erection than the arguments of the gov't
“ in fact what i like of the programmes that you mentioned, is that although they are pro k, however their members make also hard critics to the government everyday, which shows their intellectual honesty.”
Yeah right................................................................................
I've just linked a 678 video showing that disgusting propaganda and witch hunt against Macri and Massa for something they had no say nor responsability (Swire's comments) and they are already branded as traitors. Juas juas juas thank God nobody watches them.
You are brainwashed to the core you stupid retarded throughback. You “proffesor” are the reason of the Africanization of Argentina. You deny what is evident.
The gov't will total 14 years in power and in relative comparisson to the rest of the world a worse and more backward country than it was in December 2001
Argentina hasn't been liberal since the 1930s... “Neoliberalism” doen't exist. There is no such thing that you say of two decades and a half of neoliberalism. Chile has been much more free market oriented during the same period and has left us covered by dust in social, economical, institutional, defence and global projection. Menem gov't wasn't liberal, it was simply a step in the right direction, but it fell short completely of doing the reforms that need to be done. Argentina has being a peronist since 1940s to this day and that is when decadence commenced. FACT
Axle Aarrghhh
Mar 16th, 2014 - 11:15 pm - Link - Report abuse 0For the past 30 years,
Chile is steadily ascending, whilst Argentina steadily descends...
Why is that? You have sovereignty and control of your own country. It can't all be due to the invisible “Sepoys”.
If it was “British Sepoys” who blew up the BA Jewish Centre, I'm sure that Timmerman would have said so by now.
Perhaps all your woes are due to the privileged Iranian fundamentalist leaders that you refuse to investigate???
Meanwhile, how will CFK pay all those airline worker La Campora and other “nationalised” gov't employees, and the underemployed/unemployed feeding from the public trough, when your Inflation is climbing as your $$ Reserves are dwindling ??
CFK's Economic Dream is not sustainable.
Even a year ago, the RC Church was saying that AT LEAST 27% of Argentinians lived below the poverty line, that's 11 people.
The SCOTUS will not support your further write down of debt to bond holders and the IMF wants to audit any scheme you try - ie. no more worthless bonds!
You must know yourself, that your Economic and Sovereignty “Investigations” of Argentina are a pure farce. Right?
186
Mar 16th, 2014 - 11:42 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I cant remember If that is the poverty line in early 2013, then poverty is going to skyrocket to 50% when hyperinflation starts...
See the problem is as the INDEC has being fiddled since 2007 and the propaganda machine of the gov't is permanently feeding the throughbacks you dont get to know what the stats are, you just get pieces of information from private consultants, NGO's and the Church..
You dont know what the real GDP level is, you dont know what inflation is, don't know what poverty levels are, employeement levels, state size in the economy, you dont know what the real liquid reserves of the BCRA really are, you dont know anything because the whole gov't is made up of incompetent crooks and liars.
186
Mar 17th, 2014 - 02:37 am - Link - Report abuse 0“Even a year ago, the RC Church was saying that AT LEAST 27% of Argentinians lived below the poverty line, that's 11 people.”
Sorry - that's 11 MILLION people in poverty !!
188
Mar 17th, 2014 - 05:38 am - Link - Report abuse 0To me the only “”RC“” church that I would rely upon would be “”Rosario Central”.
Your numbers are just about right. However you have to keep in mind that castes in Arg, are not just about income but about mindset.
It is a matter of choice, weather you think that you should you pay for what you consume or rather have the state take care of your expenses and your vices.
I know some of our membership enjoys, if not revels in using acronyms, but it is somewhat hard for some of us South of the Equator to understand the double or triple meanings intended, as above.
Mar 17th, 2014 - 06:17 am - Link - Report abuse 0The RC was a puzzler for a minute here too.
189 Tarquin
Mar 17th, 2014 - 06:29 am - Link - Report abuse 0Point taken, but that is a huge number, and it is significant many must feel that “it's not worth trying”.
Is that because govt welfare is so easily attainable, or because there is little opportunity for career advancement and an eventual rise to a well paying job?
Not that it matters - inflation is drastically reducing purchasing power and depleting savings.
I believe he means Roman Catholic Church...
Mar 17th, 2014 - 06:34 am - Link - Report abuse 0Anyway...Some myths debunked
Argentina in the year 2000 De La Rua gov't, PISA levels... It seems the “neoliberal” Argentine kids were much smarter and educated than the kids of the “won decade”
Maths 34 position
388 points
Science 37 position
396 points
Reading 35 position
418 points
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Programme_for_International_Student_Assessment#2000
Yet 12 years and 900 Billion USD later....
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Programme_for_International_Student_Assessment#2000
Hail to thee; The road to “Swedenization”
Argentina's debt reduction in the K years consist in the massive increase in debt within the Public sector. The ammount of total debt in 2012 is almost the same as the record number in the 1998
www.cei.gov.ar/userfiles/cuadro1_11.xls
@ 192 CD
Mar 17th, 2014 - 12:03 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Interesting link to the PISA results.
On closer examination I think it would be fair to say that Argentina's performance is stalled. The 2000 evaluation had fewer countries than the 2012 evaluation. Argentina was 4 or 5 places from the bottom in 2000 and is still 4 or 5 places from the bottom of the list.
What is more interesting is if you compare Argentina's performance to her neighbours. In 2000 Argentina was fractionally above Chile and Brazil. Jump to 2012 and Brazil is just ahead of Argentina and Chile is an average of 10 places ahead of Argentina.
There is a myth that Rgs are educated maybe they were in the past but no longer. Their drop out rate is atrocious, I ran into an awful lot of people who only made it through the 6th grade! Many of the people who worked in my house could barely read or write.
Mar 17th, 2014 - 03:36 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The vast majority of the ones who make it into Univeristy don't make it out. The graduation rate is horrific. Even if they do make it out they are 10-15 yrs behind the USA. They are graduating in their mid 30s rather than their early 20s. That puts a huge burden on the lifetime of wealth creation for the individual and country as a whole.
CABEZA DURA. TROY TOMPEST.
Mar 17th, 2014 - 04:03 pm - Link - Report abuse 0It will always be easy to make lectures about the social situation of any country, and it's challenges, without taking into account the context of that nation, and it's past, as many people in this forum love doing, every time they refer to arg's problems.
I don't deny the serious problems that we have with education in the country, but i would be too stupid if i thought that the structural problems that we have, could be solved in 12 years. I know that some you love comparing arg. with chile, however, you forgat taking into account the fact that it didn't have any of the disastrous crisis that we had in the contry every tn 10 years, in the last 25 years, i don't think that chile had dramatic crisis in 1989, 1995 and 2001, in fact, the result of neoliberal policies which had started in 1976 with the militar dictatorship, and the devalutaion of 2002, took the country to have a 53% of poverty, and 22% of unemployment. Taking into account all these objetive facts, it's understandable whether a country like chile has better indexes than arg. in some aspects. Nobody needs to be too smart in order to realize that arg.'s structural problems, after 2 decades and a half of neoliberal policies, won't be solved in just 12 years. Nowadays, according to the numbers from cifra-cta, poverty is 20%, and unemployment 6,5%, beside, the 33% of our workers, don't have any social safe, although the number was 50% in 2003, it's still too high.
On the other hand, i respect whether cabeza thinks that measures taken by menem, were on the right direction, fortunately i don't think the same. As a serious political analist that i want to be someday, i would be very stupid and dishonest, if i thought that neoliberalism doesn't exist, or if i believed that clarin just lies in it's headlines, but not in facts.
Neoliberalism was defeated partialy in politic terms, but not in cultural terms.
@ Axel
Mar 17th, 2014 - 05:27 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You say “in the last 25 years, i don't think that chile had dramatic crisis in 1989, 1995 and 2001”
You are correct, we haven't. We have had 25 years of liberal economic policy, averaging 5% growth per year and no dramatic crisis.
Argentina has had the last 12 years of non-liberal economic policy and is in an economic crisis right now (50% inflation, currency controls, import restrictions, 20% devaluation - these constitute a crisis).
So you could conclude that liberal economic policy is not the problem.
The problems must be more profound.
Arg will be lucky to keep inflation under 60% this year. I think they'll have another devaluation and then another spike in inflation. It may top out much higher than 60%.
Mar 17th, 2014 - 06:02 pm - Link - Report abuse 0It will be interesting to watch.
195 axel arg
Mar 17th, 2014 - 09:21 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“I don't deny the serious problems that we have with education in the country”
Along with crippling inflation, government corruption, violent crime, drugs and woeful under investment in the country's infrastructure.
oh yeah, and the deluded idea that it's ok to steal land from your next door neighbours.
Other than all of the above, it's all gravy.
AXEL@195. You talk of the Military coup against Allende and the Military dictatorship in Chile as if it has been a bad thing. Quite frankly , I think it was the opposite. In Chile, like in Brazil in 1964, the Military intervened, just in the nick of time, to stop communist oriented Presidents, after being democratically elected, from trying to become dictators , and taking their countries down the path that Venezuela has already gone, with Chavez. You have to have lived it, to know that had they not been kicked out, that Chile, and Brazil, today, would be bigger Cubas. In retrospect, if a few hundred “revolutionaries” (or 'guerrilheiros' , in Brazil, who rose up in arms against the military) were eliminated, it's was a small price to pay to have avoided the countries going down the drain.
Mar 17th, 2014 - 09:30 pm - Link - Report abuse 053% of poverty, and 22% of unemployment is what we pretty much have today you muppet... Why dont you prove after “2 decades and a half of neoliberal policies”
Mar 18th, 2014 - 04:06 am - Link - Report abuse 0Which “neoliberal policies”?? Was De La Rua and Alfonsin the same as the military Junta in economical policy?? Was Carlos Menem a continuation of Alfonsins policies?? You dont even need to be considered axel. You are a retard and a brainwashed throughback.
200. I remember a while ago people got on me for calling Axel a retard.
Mar 18th, 2014 - 11:24 am - Link - Report abuse 0I see now that most of you agree with me.
It is nice to be validated.
Thanks
Hopefully Argentinians can get rid of Cristina - because she is basically a dictator and corrupt. Then they can concentrate on things that t hey can actually do something a bout - like their economy and the World Cup. But, they cannot do anything about t e Falklands because they belong to Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth II
Mar 19th, 2014 - 01:01 am - Link - Report abuse 0Commenting for this story is now closed.
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