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UN draft resolution states Crimea's Sunday referendum 'has no validity'
A draft UN Security Council resolution declares that Sunday's planned referendum on Crimea's status “can have no validity” and urges nations and international organizations not to recognize it, according to a copy obtained by Reuters. Read full article
Comments
Disclaimer & comment rulesWho on here seriously thinks Russia wont Veto said resolution?
Mar 15th, 2014 - 08:40 am - Link - Report abuse 0While it is expected that Russia will veto, question is if China will also veto. China is considering implications of Russian invasion of Crimea and the separatist turn on both its relations with Taiwan and on the more recent issue of killings by Uyghur separatists in its far Western province.
Mar 15th, 2014 - 12:52 pm - Link - Report abuse 0UN Security Council draft resolution follows OSCE finding that “In its current form the referendum regarding Crimea scheduled for March 16, 2014, is in contradiction with the Ukrainian Constitution and must be considered illegal.”: http://www.osce.org/cio/116313
One veto is enough, John...
Mar 15th, 2014 - 01:03 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Why would China vote at all?
@1, 3 Strange. No “respect” until the “veto” is abolished. So the U.N. should go ahead irrespective of any Chinese or Russian veto. Right? And since YOU “support” Ukraine, you'll be packing your bags with your camouflage uniform, boots, etc and expecting the government of Ukraine to supply you with an assault rifle. Just remember, if, by chance, you survive, you can't take the rifle “home” with you.
Mar 15th, 2014 - 01:51 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Speaking of shambolic referendums...
Mar 15th, 2014 - 02:55 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Having met at the US ambassador's residence in London, Russias foreign minister, Sergei Lavrov described the region of Crimea and its upcoming referendum as being
....... “immeasurably more important for Russia than the Falklands for the United Kingdom”.
Self determination comrades, wherever you may find yourself.
The big difference being that the Falklanders did not vote at the end of a gun barrel, strange how that might affect things.
Mar 15th, 2014 - 04:46 pm - Link - Report abuse 0China abstained because they don't agree with Russia's actions, but don't want to vote against their possible ally. Well, if it's put to the GA then, as long as over 50% vote against Russia, it'll go through anyway. The whole veto thing is one of the major flaws of the security council.
Ultimately Crimea should and will return to Russia.
Mar 15th, 2014 - 06:31 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The problem for Russia is that Crimea was gifted to the Ukraine by Treaty when both were part of the USSR.
In this instance it makes the Ukraine more akin to Hong Kong than the Falklands were self-determination is weighed against a Treaty rather than the colonialist ambitions of a failed corrupt fascist state like Argentina.
If Russia were sensible they should have played a long game and Crimea could have peacefully passed to them...
It's a shame.
So what is the point in the draft resolution, when it will be vetoed by Russia and have no effect....?
Mar 15th, 2014 - 06:32 pm - Link - Report abuse 0A protest...?
So Voice... Do you recall last year why I said what I said about Putin ?? Do you understand why he is going to walk over the west and the US and annex Crimea??
Mar 15th, 2014 - 07:56 pm - Link - Report abuse 0...he isn't his support from the oligarchs is about to dwindle....
Mar 15th, 2014 - 08:03 pm - Link - Report abuse 0he's a fool to take on the worlds only superpower...
You dont get it dont you...Pfff sweet dreams are made of these...
Mar 15th, 2014 - 08:18 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I don't get it.....
Mar 15th, 2014 - 08:38 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I know the EU has an economy bigger than the US and the US has a huge economy and Russia's economy is tiny in comparison....
All he has is oil and gas....Russia has been doing ok because of the high price of oil...
The US has the means to change all this...and they will....
Russia is not the only country with oil and gas the EU will get it elswhere.....
Oil and gas is all Russia has....and vodka everything else it imports...
In the long run he is doomed....
Sweet dreams are made of this
Who am I to disagree......;-))
@ 6 Bovis
Mar 15th, 2014 - 09:46 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Voting in the General Assembly is covered by Article 18 of the Charter, this reads:
”1. Each member of the General Assembly shall have one vote.
2. Decisions of the General Assembly on important questions shall be made by a two-thirds majority of the members present and voting. These questions shall include: recommendations with respect to the maintenance of international peace and security, the election of the non-permanent members of the Security Council, the election of the members of the Economic and Social Council, the election of members of the Trusteeship Council in accordance with paragraph 1 (c) of Article 86, the admission of new Members to the United Nations, the suspension of the rights and privileges of membership, the expulsion of Members, questions relating to the operation of the trusteeship system, and budgetary questions.
3. Decisions on other questions, including the determination of additional categories of questions to be decided by a two-thirds majority, shall be made by a majority of the members present and voting.”
My reading of that is that it requires 2/3 of the members present AND voting to pass at resolution.
The GA can be called upon to discuss the matter should 7 members of the Security Council request it or 50% of the members of the whole UN. Resolution 377 refers.
Crimea was part of Russia until 1954 when it was “gifted” to the Ukraine (possibly or not against the wishes of the population, but as it was all USSR who cared?). Russia are now “taking back” their gift.
Mar 16th, 2014 - 07:30 am - Link - Report abuse 0A parallel would be if post a Scottish “yes” vote, a region of Scotland wished to rejoin The UK (e.g. The Shetland Islands...). This could happen, but should be worked between the new Scottish government, the Westminster Parliament and the region.
On no count should the UK “invade”, hold a snap referendum and ignore due process....as Russia have done.
Well the UN resolution did what it was supposed to in highlighting how alone Russia is at this moment in time.
Mar 16th, 2014 - 10:46 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Not even its best friend and ally on all things UN could bring itself to vote against it.
In the meantime, protests are rising in Donetsk...
Mar 16th, 2014 - 10:59 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I'll love to see what you lot will come up with in order to differ it from what happened in Kiev. You know, common people disagreeing with the current government and all...
Now that the Crimean people have voted democratically at an astonishing 95% rate, I'm sure the UK will be the first to recognize that newest province of the Russian Federation: Crimea.
Mar 17th, 2014 - 02:26 am - Link - Report abuse 0Self-determination has spoken. Just as I have always respected the Falklanders' self-determination, so I respect the Crimeans'.
The people have spoken.
Yes Stevie
Mar 17th, 2014 - 03:25 am - Link - Report abuse 0Protests are increasing in Donetsk. I take it you disagree with these as I hope that your next post will state as much and how they are fascists. You know. So you are consistent. The current protests in Ukraine are being fed by 3 means. First the misinformation and propoganda that is being broadcast from nearby Russia, secondly the distrust in the new Ukrainian government and fear of reprisals and attacks that the Russian media is peddling. Fortunately such actions aren't actually happening. But hey, if you are falling for this propoganda, what hope is a poorly educated person without access to the internet have? And lastly, Ukraine civil society was severely damaged by the USSR and the incompetent and corrupt governments since independence have done nothing to help repair that.
At least I know to are not a fan of Yanukovych because you detest corruption and the elite enriching themselves at the expense of poor people. Indeed the new Ukrainian PM flying commercial economy reminded me very much of Mujica.
Nostrils
You are everything we have come to expect from the Argentinean education system.
Tell me why do you deny self-determination to the Crimeans?
Mar 17th, 2014 - 03:32 am - Link - Report abuse 0Nostrils
Mar 17th, 2014 - 03:58 am - Link - Report abuse 0Where did I deny self-determination?
I've reread my posts and can't find such a claim.
I totally support their right to self-determination and I truly think Ukraine will be better off without Crimea.
However you are deluded if you think a nation can organise a referendum in 10 days at the point of a gun by a foreign power that has invaded. Let alone the fact that there was no option other than independence on offer. And let's not forget how many extra ballot papers were printed. About 60% extra.
Is that your idea of democracy?
If Argentina had held a referendum on the Falkland Islands on 12 April 1982, how legitimate would it have been?
A Crimea referendum could have been organised at the same time as the presidential election it would still pass.
Russia can have Crimea as the people desire. Its a phyrric victory for Putin and will only help Ukraine as it will no longer need to subsidies US$1 billion per year and the fact that it shrinks the Russian minority in Ukraine quite markedly.
It's not the Crimeans that are requesting that, it's the Russians there. The reason is not because of their request for self-determination, it's the way it's been done. Russia signed a treaty with the US, UK, and Germany stating that they would not violate Ukraine's territorial integrity, they broke this by sending in troops outside the rules given by the lease of the current naval base in Sevastapol. This makes the vote illegal. Sef determination would be the primary issue here, but it is way down the list when viewing the situation as a whole. The fact that every member of the security council refused to veto or vote against it apart from Russia themselves, tells you what the real situation is. Compare that to UN Resolution 502, re: the invasion of the Falklands which, in effect, asked if the invasion was justifiable, 10 for, 1 against, 4 abstains.
Mar 17th, 2014 - 04:02 am - Link - Report abuse 0Indeed I disagree with what is happening in Ukraine, the country being torn apart by politics that was less to do with them than the neighbours they are unfortunate to have, both to the East as to the West.
Mar 17th, 2014 - 09:06 am - Link - Report abuse 0Crimea is a farce, in my opinion, as is the puppet government installed only to sign the agreement with the EU.
Now, let me hear you lot cry out loud for the liberation of Donetsk...
@17
Mar 17th, 2014 - 09:38 am - Link - Report abuse 0Heavyweight state agitates ethnic minority in neighbouring country, sends in troops ostensibly to protect them, then annexes the territory to loud popular acclaim from the agitated minority in question. Sudetenland 1938.
I don't think the west would have a problem with self determination for Crimeans if it was addressed in a legitimate manner. What's happened so far is an annexation and a propaganda farce.
Mar 17th, 2014 - 09:40 am - Link - Report abuse 0It is akin to Wales invading areas of Patagonia and then holding a vote within a week while pointing a gun at everyone.
Come on folks, lets protect the will of the people!!
Mar 17th, 2014 - 09:57 am - Link - Report abuse 0Free Donestsk!!!
You hypocritical tossers...
What about the fact that both the USA and Russia (among others) signed an pledge to protect the territorial integrity of Ukraine in exchange for its nuclear weapons when it became independent?
Mar 17th, 2014 - 10:05 am - Link - Report abuse 0We're left with the assumption that a pact with Russia is meaningless and one with the rest is not much better.
Crimea -
Mar 17th, 2014 - 11:11 am - Link - Report abuse 0Political dominance: Russian, because of the naval fleet and the naval base (and Black Sea holidays for rich Russians).
Population allegiance: Russian, because of the proximity to the Russian Caucasus (and its oil fields).
Population language: predominantly Russian - why? ...
Population history: *Tartar and Cossack true genocides, displacements to gulags, and regional depopulations by the Russians themselves.
It comes as no surprise that a referendum (Putin using Western-type practices to validate his annexation) supports this part of the Ukraine being 'annexed' and transferred to Russia.
But if a whole country is to be split against its will - and against the US/UK/Russian agreement to defend it agasinst outside annexation - does this not give the WHOLE Ukraine nation and the UN the right by majority vote to say Yes or No on the splitting up?
Or is this simply real politik, recognised behind closed doors by the Russians and Americans, but never acknowledged in public?
And yes, I know this has implications for Scottish 'independence'.
@5 Having read up on some of the history of Crimea, I note that “On 19 February 1954, the Presidium of the Supreme Soviet of the Soviet Union issued a decree transferring the Crimean Oblast from the Russian Soviet Federative Socialist Republic to the Ukrainian Soviet Socialist Republic”. So you'll have to explain “....... “immeasurably more important for Russia than the Falklands for the United Kingdom”. And surely there is the small matter of ”territorial integrity“. The Crimea isn't actually attached to Russia anywhere. But the relevant part of the UN Charter says that outside countries shouldn't interfere with the territorial integrity of another country. And yet that is exactly what Putin is doing! Lavrov is simply indulging in old-style Soviet misdirection.
Mar 17th, 2014 - 11:30 am - Link - Report abuse 0@6 What has the GA to do with it? It's just a talking shop. The GA can pass 10,000 resolutions and they will ALL be non-binding.
@14 And the possibility is already there! Salmond believes that the Shetland Islands are already ”in his pocket“. One of the reasons he is so ”confident“ about gas and oil. But the Shetland Islands have already indicated that they may decide to stay with the UK. Who knows, the Orkney Islands may feel the same. And, currently, they are both represented in the UK Parliament by the same MP. So, no need to consult a ”new Scottish government“, it's up to the people of the Orkneys and Shetlands.
@18 It's important to recognise anarchists when you see them. Stevie and Nostrils are anarchists. When researching the ”protests“ in Donetsk, this is the headline I found first. ”Ukraine crisis: landslide victory for Russia in Crimea vote“. In a matter of ”self-determination“ why would it be a victory for Russia? That alone should tell us that ”self-determination” is not part of this.
@26 Let's approach this in an argie manner. Collect up all the occupants of Crimea and Donetsk..........and transport them into Russia, where they can be protected. Perfect solution!
Donetsk is not aasking to leave Ukraine.
Mar 17th, 2014 - 12:35 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Typical simplistic, idiotic and feeble understanding of Ukraine.
While there are plenty of Russians in Eastern Ukraine who would prefer to live in Russia, they are outnumbered by Russian speaking Ukrainians who want no such thing.
There is a very simplistic idea that any Russian speaker in Ukraine is a Russian.
Those of us that can actually think realise that is simply wrong
No, Donetsk is protesting against the puppet government installed in Kiev, just like Kiev protested against the democratically elected government...
Mar 17th, 2014 - 12:38 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Who is right, and if Kiev got what they wanted and western media applaused, shouldn't Donetsk get the same, applause and all?
Is anybody surprised that Stevie has fallen for the oldest trick in the Expansionist Dictator Handbook, as practised by Hitler, Putin, Milovesic et al, namely the use of an allegedly threatened ethnic minority as a Trojan Horse for subsequent annexation of the territory?
Mar 17th, 2014 - 06:06 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The only thing that's dumber is to see any comparison with a tiny and largely homogenous homogenous community rejecting imperialist absorption of their homeland by a hostile foreign power.
Putin hasn't played this well either. If he'd waited a few weeks, and allowed Ukraine to hold a properly supervised referendum with international observers, the result would pretty much have been the same, and nobody could or would have objected.
Threatened ethnic minority?
Mar 17th, 2014 - 08:07 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Nah, Hans... Voting healthy majority, I'd say...
@32
Mar 18th, 2014 - 12:09 am - Link - Report abuse 0If you've managed to find a healthy majority of Russians in the Ukraine, you must have had your Malvinista glasses on.
In Crimea?
Mar 18th, 2014 - 12:16 am - Link - Report abuse 0But of course, a historical part of Russia with a majority of Russian inhabitants...
Eastern Ukraine is Russian speakig, you know?
No you don't... Of coure you don't...
Oh someone please tell me that Stevie didn't simplisticly equate a Russian speaker with being a Russian!
Mar 18th, 2014 - 04:15 am - Link - Report abuse 0I mean that make him Spanish because his native tongue is Spanish. I guess I'm English because that's my native tongue. Austria just lost it reason for existence as they're nothing but Germans. Bye bye Switzerland. Why's there a border between Canada and the US? They're all English. Oh it's to keep out the Québécois..... I mean French. Have to wonder about all those borders between different parts of Spain in Latin America.
Yeah all the Russian speakers in Ukraine are Russian. IDIOT!
In 2001, only 38% of Donetsk region identified themselves as Russian and yet almost 100% of them speak Russian.
I love hearing ignorant idiots talk about something of which they are so clueless.
A Russian newspaper just reported that 3,000 people marched in Kharkiv demanding a referendum. Wow a whole 3,000.
Where were the other 1.4 MILLION?
I mean Odessa got 20,000 at least. Donetsk has managed a whole 10,000 at times.
Weren't there a whole 50,000 Russians that just protested in Moscow against Russia's expansionist and fascist agenda?
No Anglolatino, I specifically mentioned Russian speaking people, the very same people that got upset because the puppets in Kiev banned Russian in Ukraine as their first move when usurping power...
Mar 18th, 2014 - 07:27 am - Link - Report abuse 0Do you know how many people lives in Kiev? Did all of them attend the Plaza and overthrew the democratically elected goernment?
Did your media report what happened in Kiev and actively supported it?
How does that make your media credible when it comes to Donetsk and the rest of Eastern Ukraine?
Remember Kosovo?
@36
Mar 18th, 2014 - 07:52 am - Link - Report abuse 0I remember Kosovo. That was when the last would-be Napoleon of Eastern Europe attempted to expel the majority population, ostensibly because of the threat they posed to his own ethnic minority.
But apart from reliance on the ethnic minority pretext, it's not quite the same case as the Crimea. The closest parallel to that remains the Sudetenland in 1938. You might remember that in that case the ethnic minority in question also turned out in their thousands to cheer on the invading Nazi troops, much as one might expect you to do.
hahahaha Hans!!!
Mar 18th, 2014 - 01:46 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Now...
S W A L L O W
;)
Crimea is a valuable area and a big lost for the fascists. Btw, those people that worked with the fascists, take a good look at their “religion”, hint, starts with a j..... of certain unelected leaders there in Kiev and you shall notice that something in our history books doesn't make sense. What was once a conspiracy is now a fact..deny it all you want, its in your face.
Mar 18th, 2014 - 03:05 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The west of Ukraine shall face, very soon, the reality as what the people in Portugal, Italy, Ireland, Greece, and Spain witness through the “austerity” programs pushed by the IMF. Soon or later they will get rid those unlected leaders in Kiev what will be again a lost for the US (Nato) and another slam in the face for the sinking ship, the EU.
The EU can't do anything because they rely on Gas from Russia , and Germany (boss of the EU) has alot of businesses in Russia and you don't mess with their exports. The US is also trapped. Why? Russia is bond holder of those (worthless) US treasuries and if they dumped them (which is actually already happening, slowly, include China and Brazil) much faster on the open market, The US dollar will lose faster it's world reserve currency status. I have already typed this many times that it's a matter of time and that process is accelerating. Wait for the month July, the BRICS meeting (Agenda: process of new reserve currency), but of course the propaganda machine, Reuters (losing the information war) won't cover it at all or will claim it was a failure (what do you expect from the machine that protects the corrupt at Wallstreet and city of London, trusting them is like believing in flying reindeers).
Patty Obozo the puppet and Camoron the chicken hawk (can't do anything because he needs to protect the city of londen where many corrupt russians hide their money..remember banks make money on fees and money talks) are losing it, and the other chicken hawk in France is very Quiet (duh, take a good look at France economy :D and the Germans want their gold back)
Please could you validate your use of the descriptor 'Fascist'.
Mar 18th, 2014 - 05:34 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I'm sure there are some 'official' fascists in most countries;
but to label a whole country and its interim government as 'fascist' - because it wants closer links with the EU - is irresponsible.
I am happy to be corrected if they are all fascists, but all I have seen so far is the larger part of a nation seeking their freedom to chose.
Svoboda, a party that called itself Social-Nationalists in reference to you-know-who, gained 4 minister posts in the “interim” government...
Mar 18th, 2014 - 05:45 pm - Link - Report abuse 0If you set aside democracy in order to follow your own agenda, expect nobody to be better.
Putin is kicking USA and the EU around like a cat playing with its food...
But you lot are ok with his actions, as you never screamed for sanctions when USA behaved exactly the same. No, your governments joined them in a murdering spree that sees no end instead.
You lot introduced the agenda, now swallow.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-20824693
Mar 18th, 2014 - 06:46 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I think the word you are looking for, Stevie, is 'nationalist' ... unless you think that all who support their country are - by definition - fascists. Surely not! It would seem that many Ukrainian nationalists are socialist of the communist persuasion.
It has always seemed clear to me that titles 'left' and 'right' are largely superfluous when we are talking about nationalistic support for your own country.
What amazes me is that a section of the country are freely giving away a significant geographical part of their country!
But then I see that they see this as preferable to being over-run by the massed Russian armies on their border,
and - like the genocides of the previous inhabitants at the hands of the Russians - they just wish to avoid 'being dead'.
Social-Nationalist Party
Mar 18th, 2014 - 07:51 pm - Link - Report abuse 0National-Socialist Party
www.theguardian.com/world/2014/mar/05/ukraine-bugged-call-catherine-ashton-urmas-paet
Not only Nazis.
Murderers too.
Oh dear, oh dear, oh dear...
@43
Mar 18th, 2014 - 10:59 pm - Link - Report abuse 0What a treasure you are for the unscrupulous, Stevie. You can't weigh up competing arguments, and you'll swallow any old crap just so long as it hits one of your bigot buttons.
And you support Nazis...
Mar 18th, 2014 - 11:10 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@36 Stevie
Mar 18th, 2014 - 11:52 pm - Link - Report abuse 0For someone who claims to speak at least four languages, you seem to be sourcing all your information from Russia. So you are either pig-ignorant, plain stupid or lazy. Let’s look at some of your fallacies:
THE RUSSIAN LANGUAGE WAS BANNED
No it wasn’t! A recent law that gave regions the ability to conduct business in a language other than the national language of Ukrainian was rescinded. The current President (a guy you call a Nazi) vetoed the bill. Therefore there was no change to the law.
Fallacy.
THE PRO-RUSSIAN GOVERNMENT RALLIES ARE LARGE
I gave you figures for the size of the rallies in Kharkiv, Odessa and Donetsk. About 33,000 was the total. Those three cities have a combined population of 5.6 million!
Kiev has a population of 3.3 million and managed to get 400,000-800,000 people on the streets protesting.
0.6% of the population versus 12-24% of the population.
There is a constant stream of vitriol coming out of Moscow about how oppressed Russians are in Ukraine and how much of the population is actually Russian. Facts don’t bear this out.
Fallacy.
CRIMEA FOLLOWS THE KOSOVO PRECEDENT
Kosovo was a full blown war where 13,000 civilians were killed and a million people were displaced. So far the death toll has hardly pushed past 100 for the WHOLE of Ukraine and Crimea tallies 1 death so far.
There has not been a single aggressive move by Kiev against Crimea.
Fallacy.
THE UKRAINIAN GOVERNMENT IS CONTROLLED BY FASCISTS
Of the 20 cabinet positions, 4 are held by Svoboda. Hardly control. Svoboda had 37 members elected at the last election. That is democracy. The fact that elections have been called is more than can be said for Crimea where a party that gained 4% of the vote held a closed meeting at gunpoint with mobile phones confiscated to elect one of their members as a leader.
I am also reading the Russian media, however unlike you I can spot bullsh!t a mile away. You can only fall back on your fascist theme because you lie so much.
That's according to your sources.
Mar 19th, 2014 - 05:46 am - Link - Report abuse 0The same sources that tried to make us believe that Saddam had WMD's.
The same sources that said the elected Ukranian government was shooting at their own people.
The same sources that applauded South Sudan, Eastern Timor, Kosovo and keep their presses quiet when atrocities are made in the name of your demcracy.
I read all media too, and I disagree with you strongly, you can't spot bullshit at all...
But you can prove any of your lies Stevie.
Mar 19th, 2014 - 08:03 am - Link - Report abuse 0Just using the points above that you have already brought up.
1/ The language law has not been rescinded.
2/ Outside of Crimea there are no large pro-Russian demonstrations.
3/ There has been no bombing, murder or ethnic cleansing in Crimea.
4/ Most of the Ukrainian government is not from a fascist party.
I mean, you can't alter the above with any proof unless you read Russian media reports. You can keep bringing in every single example previous to 2014, however it doesn't change any facts.
Feel free to post links to back up your claims.
Here are some of my favourites at the moment:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_FhNpmHXeoQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_FhNpmHXeoQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_FhNpmHXeoQ
1/ The language law has not been rescinded.
Mar 19th, 2014 - 04:21 pm - Link - Report abuse 0No, the decision was revoked for obvious reasons.
2/ Outside of Crimea there are no large pro-Russian demonstrations.
Large enough for those ones involved.
3/ There has been no bombing, murder or ethnic cleansing in Crimea.
No, the Russians have behaved better than USA in that matter.
4/ Most of the Ukrainian government is not from a fascist party.
Only 4 ministers out of 20, which for me, and every decent person who claims to be against nazism, is 4 too many.
You disqualified my sources. Now I disqualify yours.
Stevie
Mar 19th, 2014 - 09:27 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You didn't provide any sources.
DUH!
But nice to see you agree that:
• Russian wasn't banned against your claim it was
• The demonstrations are large only for those involved
• Russia actually did invade Ukraine illegally as the US did Iraq
• That your claim of fascism is based solely on 4 people in government but not on any actions or policies.
It is no wonder you don't provide any sources. It is hard to reference, imagination, paranoia and wishful thinking.
Why would I when you disqualify them even before I present them?
Mar 19th, 2014 - 09:56 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You disqualify Russian media for being Russian, I diqualify western media for being western.
In that sense, you still have to present reliable sources...
Russian was indeed banned according to the media you choose not to believe in. Then the ban was removed, for obvious reasons.
The demostrations in Donetsk were big even according to the media you DO believe in (although yo will dsqualiy it for being this or that).
Neither Russia or USA have the right to invade any country.
4/20 is 20% Nazis. As ministers. I can undestand you think the number in't big enough and hoped for more, but any person that calls himself decent would state otherwise.
Stevie
Mar 20th, 2014 - 05:46 am - Link - Report abuse 0You keep believing what you wish. When reality intrudes enough you too will realise what is real and what is Russian government propoganda.
The best part is that after hundreds of years, Ukraine has finally shrugged off Russian dominance long enough to start charting an independent course.
And after the indignation in Ukraine and celebration in Russia has died down, Ukraine will realise it has come out of this better off without Yanukovych and Crimea draining the treasury of billions every year and with its Russian minority 15% smaller than last week.
Russia still has Putin and a new expensive province to pay for. No wonder the Kievien government has made such a minor fuss of this. They couldn't have planned this better. A troublesome province gone, Putin on the defensive and Ukraine the new darling of everyone in the west who can't offer enough financial support and diplomatic aide.
So let 10,000 or 20,000 Russians futilely protest. Because if this is how many protest when Russian media hype is at its height and they are full of fear, then it is all downhill from here when, like you, they realise reality is nothing like the propaganda they were fed.
And the western Europeans (the people, that is) can't wait to have Ukraine incorporatede to the EU in order to receive them into their welfare states.
Mar 20th, 2014 - 06:05 am - Link - Report abuse 0As it is, the joy of having certain Eastern Europeans in the union is creating lower salaries (social dumping they seem to call it), which is great when competing with China. It also stimulates the economic tourism within the union, something that the western Europeans are really, really glad for...
If you think Crimea will be expensive, well... Make sure Donetsk doesn't fall out, it is after all the Cataluña of Ukraine...
Catalonia of Ukraine.... with each post you show you know less and less about Ukraine. So keep going coz I'm loving this.
Mar 20th, 2014 - 09:23 am - Link - Report abuse 0So what, Ukraine joins the EU. Living in the EU seems to suit you. Just another ex-pat trashing where he lives I guess.
At least the EU is a better deal that Putin's resurrected USSR.... I mean Eurasian Union. Poor Vlad, now he's stuck with Belarus and Kazahkstan. Ukraine is pulling out of the CIS, so time for Russians to get visas before crossing the border.
Ukraine is quietly and peacefully pulling its troops and citizens out of Crimea. No provocations and no need for Russia to invade elsewhere. Putin probably expected them to go the Georgian route. But alas.... as I've said, Kiev is happy to rid themselves of Crimea. The US$1 billion I quoted was wrong, the estimate is a US$2 billion saving.
And is it a million or a million and half pesky ethnic Russians now not able to vote. Which let's face it will only entrench power further towards the west Ukraine and hence Europe. Don't be surprised if some of those 10,000 or 20,000 ethnic Russians decide to move to Crimea-there'll be plenty of houses for sale.
Indeed I've hardly seen a media report from anywhere including Russia that shows any great amount of indignation by Ukrainians at losing Crimea. Where are the protests? Where are the threats?
Seems everyone is getting what they want.
Ukraine lost Yanukovych and Crimea and freed itself from Russia.
Russia gained Yanukovych and Crimea but lost Ukraine.
http://www.loc.gov/rr/business/ukraine/industry.html
Mar 20th, 2014 - 09:55 am - Link - Report abuse 0The Cataluña of Ukraine, as in the industrial vein of the nation.
Get it?
My bad, I misjudged your intelligence.... Again.
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