MercoPress. South Atlantic News Agency
![“It is not that [Gallo's] mission has been aborted. We have given him a hard blow thanks to the State security agencies,” Cabello underlined](/data/cache/noticias/102697/130x80/diosdado.jpg)
Unasur 'democratic clause' comes into force after ratification by Uruguay and Colombia
Any country that suffers an interruption to its democratic order will be automatically excluded from Unasur (Union of South American Nations), the bloc announced this week, after its “democratic clause” came into force and as Venezuelan President Nicolás Maduro claimed that a US-funded campaign is trying to ouster him. Read full article
Comments
Disclaimer & comment rules' In a ceremony that took place in Quito, Ecuadorean Foreign Minister Ricardo Patiño announced that Colombia became the tenth country to ratify the clause.'
Mar 21st, 2014 - 04:38 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I've ratified many clauses but none have been the cause for international 'ceremony'.
Once this clause is signed it means that people like Maduro are greatly at risk.
No country could be more at risk than the 'democratic' dictatorship that we see every day in Venezuela.
The problem is ... who shall be allowed to judge which of us are guilty of subverting the democratic cause? For it seems that even President Putin's take-over of the Crimea is 'democratic' and China's take-over of Tibet is 'democratic'.
Quis custodiet ...
Once the great unwashed voice their approval anything - and I mean ANYTHING - can be deemed 'democratic'; even Hitler and Napoleon can be seen to democratic by this criterion!
[You'll love this: as long as there are sufficient unwashed, ANYTHING can be democratic. So let's not think that democracy unfettered is an adequate point of judgement.]
let's see... democratically elected mayors with supermajorites (2/3+!) being arrested by a known loser who got “50.6%” (riiiiiiiiiiiiiiight) for not suppressing peaceful oposition protests (its' only human right when the government's people protest) that have been repeatedly and violently broken up by armed thugs from the guy who got... ahem... “50.6%.” And this does not “trip” the “democratic clause”.
Mar 21st, 2014 - 06:03 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Credibility, meet toilet, UNASUR. Flush at your leisure.
I'm not familiar with that term, “unwashed”. I only just looked it up but,
Mar 21st, 2014 - 06:04 pm - Link - Report abuse 0it is only the masses of “the other side” that are considered, “unwashed”. The masses on my side are “poor, but full of wisdom”.
And, as I think you also pointed out, “the other side” will be the “undemocratic” one.
This goes back to Paraguay and the constitutionally correct actions by the elected representatives to “oust” the flock shagging Bishop who happened to be the president.
Mar 21st, 2014 - 10:16 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Does that seem eons ago to anybody else other than me?
Dear me, they really are frightened, these “glorious leaders” of the Southern Cone. A bit of “pot banging” and they shoot 29 people in Venezuela.
We have a few in Uruguay who need shooting too, but I couldn't possibly name them. Ha, ha, ha.
OAS voted in the Machado case (her wanting to take the offered Panamá chair to rally against Venezuela)
Mar 21st, 2014 - 10:51 pm - Link - Report abuse 09 abstentions.
3 for
22 AGAINST!
Come on, tell me it was Cuba....
Hahahahahahaha!!!
While there is Brazil, nothing bad will happen to America .......... South
Mar 22nd, 2014 - 12:15 am - Link - Report abuse 0I think it's in everybody's interest that you lot do a Machado and call every SA nation that voted against the petition for un-democratic...
Mar 22nd, 2014 - 07:17 am - Link - Report abuse 0;)
Bushpilot #3, re #1
Mar 22nd, 2014 - 09:19 am - Link - Report abuse 0'unwashed' - just a little memory-tease for Think;
(he thinks I am one of the 'washed' elite!).
(1) & (8) GeoffWard2
Mar 22nd, 2014 - 10:15 am - Link - Report abuse 0You ask…:
Who shall be allowed to judge which of us are guilty of subverting the democratic cause?
Quis custodiet ...?
I say…:
Who shall be allowed to judge and custody us in Latin-America?
Well………….. Certainly not any European Ex-Colonial power nor their North American offspring, that have given us hundreds, if not thousands fratricidal wars causing hundreds, if not thousands of millions victims…, colonized the rest of the World under the premise ”Bang you are dead, I claim all this for my King & Country” causing hundreds, if not thousands of millions victims …, have a complete disdain for “The Great Unwashed” causing hundreds, if not thousands of millions victims... and have produced such excellent human beings and democrats as Caligula, Ivan IV, Louis XVI, Leopold II, Napoleon, Victoria, Stalin, Hitler, Mussolini, Franco, Nixon, Bush, Blair, Putin etc… etc… etc…
Nor any haughty Anglo Ex-Pat in Bahia, profoundly proud of his above European legacy….
PS
TWIMC…:
From the 31 protest related deaths in Venezuela until today, five (5) have been ascribed to governmental security forces repression….:
1) Alejandro Márquez (Shot by the GNB, 7 officials under investigation)
2) Geraldine Orozco (Shot by the GNB, 7 officials under investigation)
3) Bassil Da Costa (Shot by a “Colectivo” none arrested yet)
4) Juan Montoya (Shot by the Sebin, 5 officials under investigation)
5) Glidis Benítez (Shot by the PoliChacao, 3 officials under investigation)
The rest have been killed either by opposition protestors, accidents or other related episodes…
Probably because gangs of motorcycle riding Tupamaros aren't considered a “governmental security force”.
Mar 22nd, 2014 - 10:21 am - Link - Report abuse 0For the benefit of the Anglo Turnips that like their “Truths” to be served by the “System”...
Mar 22nd, 2014 - 11:01 am - Link - Report abuse 0A comprehensive list with full details of the 31 deadly episodes related to the 34 days of violent opposition protests in Venezuela...:
http://albaciudad.org/wp/index.php/2014/03/conozca-los-26-fallecidos-a-un-mes-del-inicio-de-las-protestas-opositoras-la-gran-mayoria-son-victimas-de-las-barricadas/
With a murder on average every 21 minutes in Venezuela, it is a great shame than turnips and hermanos alike feel so disinterested in the 31 people murdered every 10 hours on Venezuela.
Mar 22nd, 2014 - 01:32 pm - Link - Report abuse 0How well does the “system” served the people living in it?
25,000 murders per year is the “truth”!
Where's the indignation at that? Aaah the Chavista lagacy.
TWIMC
Mar 22nd, 2014 - 02:12 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Honduras, El Salvador, Venezuela, Mejico, Colombia, Belize, Puerto Rico……
All of them having huge murder rates under very diverse political systems during the last ~40 years…
Why....?
Think….!
@ 13 Lunatic
Mar 22nd, 2014 - 04:35 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“Why....?”
They were demonstrating their brotherly love for one another?
HA, HA, HA.
#9 Think,
Mar 22nd, 2014 - 07:24 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Fine, YOU do the quis custodiet for Latin America - I think you would do it well ... if you could get people to listen to you.
I don't really care who does it as long as it operates along REAL democratic lines as opposed to what I have seen close at hand during the last decade.
So many demagogues operate under the guise of 'democracy' - especially in South America. And don't hand me the old line that this youthful continent is simply copying what it sees elsewhere in the world - centuries of independence should have enabled the leaders and the people to identify what is democracy and what is not democratic.
My argument is that 'democratic dictators' have so debased the word 'democracy' as to render it meaningless without rigorous qualification.
So, yes, be a guardian of true democracy within the continent - strangely, you might be good at it. But it will mean putting your leaders to the sword publicly when they bastardise your unadulterated (platonic?) democracies.
I would just like to point out that the source Thunk used in @11 is a Venezuelan Government Chavista website.
Mar 22nd, 2014 - 07:53 pm - Link - Report abuse 0So most definitely not unbiased or independent.
Anglotino raises an important point: 25000 violent deaths in Venezuela last year.
90% are unsolved and are likely to remain so.
Surely this alone, in any country in the world, is worthy of outrage and protest?
El Thinko, yr#9 is so much rubbish, not to mention badly written, don't you wish YOU could remove it ?? millions of victims, bla-bla-bla-bla........laughable.
Mar 22nd, 2014 - 08:21 pm - Link - Report abuse 0And if you believe that a Bolivarian rag - like SiBCI (government propaganda and lies) - with the picture of that maniac Chavez playing the harp, is something that can be trusted , you ARE a naive idiot.
(15) GeoffWard2
Mar 22nd, 2014 - 10:04 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I’m afraid that in this age of spin doctors manipulating our apathetic, even regressive public awareness it is not longer enough to “put our leaders to the sword publicly when they bastardise our Arcadian democratic principles”......
Think,
Mar 23rd, 2014 - 10:25 am - Link - Report abuse 0I agree, it is harder to actually 'put them to the sword', but it still goes on in the more regressive nations of our continent.
Perhaps all I can hope and expect of you is that you take your pans to the Casa Rosada and build the chant:
“I'M AS MAD AS HELL, AND I'M NOT GOING TO TAKE THIS ANYMORE!”
Surely that's not asking too much.
(19) GeoffWard2
Mar 23rd, 2014 - 11:53 am - Link - Report abuse 0Definitively asking too much...
That would be a complete egocentric waste of time...
Tell me...What did the 3,000,000 Great Unwashed Romans, the 2,000,000 Great Unwashed Madrileños or the 1,000,000 Great Unwashed Londonians marching on February 15, 2003 anti-war protest accomplish?
Sweet nothing….................... That’s what they accomplished…
What we need, IMHO, is thousands and thousands of Snowden’s, Manning’s and Assange’s acting glocally…. That’s what we need.
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/mar/20/venezuela-revolt-truth-not-terror-campaign
Mar 23rd, 2014 - 12:23 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Some unexpected reading...
Londonians? Umm... try 'Londoners' it is more colloquially correct.
Mar 23rd, 2014 - 01:10 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Also marchers in London were from all over the UK so technically British (plus members of the hugely diverse international London community).
Just trying to help. .. :-)
Also, The Guardian is a left wing paper written and read by champagne Socialists that has always been an apologist for people such as Chavez etc.
Just so others know!
TWIMC
Mar 23rd, 2014 - 02:26 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The Guardian is indeed a left wing paper written and read by 60,000,000 Socialy conscient people...
Actualy.... The 8'th most popular news website in the World...
http://www.ebizmba.com/articles/news-websites
Yes, it isvery popular, and equally I'm more than happy to point out that Fox News is a rabid right-wing TeaBag Party mouthpiece.
Mar 23rd, 2014 - 04:07 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Just adding a little background.
So here is some more. The piece expat Stevie refers to is an Op-Ed piece/travel journalism article NOT a factual news article. This was exhibited in the Comment Section, not the News section. With currently 815 comments it is proving it's worth as 'click-bait' and suckered in Stevie too, obviously.
It was written by Wiesbrot, IMO a champagne-socialist apologist for the current dictatorship, and still in thrall to Caudillo Chavez. It is common for the weak-minded to follow a 'Strong man.'
In contrast here is a factual news article from the same newspaper.
Dated 23/03/2014
“Three Venezuelans have died from gunshot wounds during protests against socialist President Nicolás Maduro, witnesses and local media have said, pushing the death toll to 34 from almost two months of demonstrations that have been answered with deadly force from both security forces and armed pro-government gangs.”
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/mar/23/three-more-killed-in-venezuela-protests
Just like to point out that expat Stevie can be very selective in his sources and likes the cloak of respectibility that he thinks The Guardian might provide.....
with regards,
From a (washed!) Londoner, who did march against the war!
Think #20
Mar 23rd, 2014 - 04:45 pm - Link - Report abuse 0'... the 3,000,000 Great Unwashed Romans, the 2,000,000 Great Unwashed Madrileños'
Sorry, these guys are beyond my ken.
I know about the 1 million 'Londonias' - I was one of them.
What have you ACTUALLY done?
(25) GeoffWard2
Mar 23rd, 2014 - 05:50 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Well… If you need to know… On that day, I took the young ones (for instructional purpose only) to a small Demo (40-50,000) in front of the American embassy…
My fondest mass hysteria experience though are those November days of 89, jumping the wall and being gently thrown back by the Vopos….. until the gates opened and the Ossis flooded out…
Some days!
Brazilian list:
Mar 23rd, 2014 - 06:52 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Maceio ( 5th place) - Homicides 79.76 per 100 thousand inhabitants
Fortaleza ( 7th ) - 72.81 Homicides per 100,000
João Pessoa ( 9th ) - 66.92 Homicides per 100,000
Christmas ( 12th ) - 57.62 Homicides per 100,000
Salvador ( 13th ) - 57.51 Homicides per 100,000
Victory ( 14th ) - 57.39 Homicides per 100,000
St. Louis ( 15th ) - 57.04 Homicides per 100,000
Bethlehem ( 16th ) - 48.23 Homicides per 100,000
Campina Grande ( 25th ) - 46 Homicides per 100,000
Goiânia ( 28th ) - 44.56 Homicides per 100,000
Cuiabá ( 29th ) - 43.95 Homicides per 100,000
Manaus ( 31 th ) - 42.53 Homicides per 100,000
Recife ( 39th ) - 36.82 Homicides per 100,000
Macapa ( 40th ) - 36.59 Homicides per 100,000
Belo Horizonte ( 44th ) - 34.73 Homicides per 100,000
Aracaju ( 46th ) - 33.36 Homicides per 100,000
Read more about this in http://oglobo.globo.com/pais/brasil-tem-16-cidades-no-grupo-das-50-mais-violentas-do-mundo-11958108#ixzz2woRfW9Xe
Sent by my good consulate friend.
It's good to know that there are 12 worse places!
[Remember me saying that the (drugs) crime had transferred to the second-level cities?]
[And I (also?) have a piece of the Wall.
Yes, *some days*;
though I was watching it from a Hong Kong British Council suite following the Charles/Diana Reception when it happened (coincidentally and unknown to me for many years, my present partner was also at the Reception!]
Chubutean list:
Mar 23rd, 2014 - 07:25 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Comodoro Rivadavia (1st place) - 18.80 homicides per 100 thousand inhabitants
Esquel (2nd) - 12.50 homicides per 100,000
Trelew (3th) - 11.00 homicides per 100,000
Puerto Madryn ( 4th ) - 7.20 homicides per 100,000
Rawson ( 5th ) - o.40 homicides per 100,000
Trevelin ( 6th ) - o.oo homicides per 100,000
Australian list:
Mar 23rd, 2014 - 10:01 pm - Link - Report abuse 0New South Wales - 119
Queensland - 104
Victoria - 90
Western Australia - 53
South Australia - 48
Northern Territory - 21
Tasmania - 13
Aust Capital Territory - 6
Or to put in context for the socialist paradise of Venezuela:
New South Wales - 41 hours 39 minutes
Queensland - 36 hours 24 minutes
Victoria - 31 hours 30 minutes
Western Australia - 18 hours 33 minutes
South Australia - 16 hours 48 minutes
Northern Territory - 7 hours 21 minutes
Tasmania - 4 hours 33 minutes
Aust Capital Territory - 2 hours 6 minutes
So thanks to Chavez and his socialist revolution and resultant paradise, if you counted from the popping of champagne corks at New Year's Eve, Venezuela's homocide rate starts to exceed Australia's rate at 2.54pm on the 7th of January.
Nah, Anglolatino, thanks to the opposition burning the streets and spreading hatred, the homicide rates are as they are. Decapitating motor cyclists with wires, shooting at people who tries to remove the barricades and destabilising the country with their nocturnal raids.
Mar 23rd, 2014 - 10:12 pm - Link - Report abuse 0But it will be over soon, and you will sit there, with your useless statistics...
Yes Stevie. Whatever you say.
Mar 23rd, 2014 - 11:30 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Because those actions have been killing 25,000 Venezuelans every year.
A murder on average every 21 minutes Stevie. That's your socialist paradise. The deaths during these protests.... a tiny drop in the bucket.
25,000 deaths is such a “useless statistics” only to those that value human life so much less than their bankrupted political beliefs.
Thanks for showing your true colours. No wonder you choose to live in a safe country.
Anglotino. Thank you for those interesting stats.
Mar 23rd, 2014 - 11:39 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Sewer mouth Stevie is blatantly on the ropes here. I love it when he tries to get involved in Venezuela threads. This junior expat, enjoying his European comfort, is so obviously completely out of his depth it gives me a good laugh in these dark days for Venezuela.
If one compares his facile comments above with the reality 'on the ground' (eg. 25000 murders/90% unsolved per year/ 15 years of Chavismo etc.) we can be sure of his utter ignorance of the subject.
Time someone changed his diaper, looks like he just made a poo poo again!
Give it up Stevie. Why embarrass your self further?
what the hell do you know about Venezuela?
Take a look at the murder rates in socialist Uruguay.
Mar 24th, 2014 - 05:32 am - Link - Report abuse 0I think you are simplifying things a bit...
Ilsen
Mar 24th, 2014 - 06:37 am - Link - Report abuse 0Stevie has battered wife syndrome and keeps hoping that dealing with me will lead to a different outcome but he just keeps coming back for another walloping. He argues with emotion almost constantly. Facts are a much better idea. He rants incessantly about the far-right fascist takeover of Ukraine where only 100 people have been killed but can't stand to mention the 70 Venezuelans that are killed EVERY DAY.
Stevie
Uruguay is as socialist as Australia. It is firmly oscillating near the centre and nowhere near the far-left. So that argument just fell flat. Next!
Venezuela is in the midst of creating 21st century socialism through Chavista Bolivarism. That 'revolution' has directly lead to around 25,000 homicides per year. The vast majority of which are never solved.
I love it when your political beliefs trap you. You just can't being yourself to criticise Venezuela and so you downplay, ignore or devalue 25,000 murdered Venezuelans every year because they are killed living under an acceptable form of government.
Anglolatino
Mar 24th, 2014 - 09:58 am - Link - Report abuse 0The Uruguayan state owns heck loads more of the enterprises than the Venezuelan one.
In that aspect and considering the very definition of socialism (it has little to do with your personal opinion), Uruguay is even more socialistic than Venezuela.
I think you should do some reading before commenting...
I agree that Uruguay is more socialist than Venezuela.
Mar 24th, 2014 - 11:59 am - Link - Report abuse 0Heck Australia is more socialist than Venezuela. While you might try to deceive, there is no single definition of what constitutes socialism, no matter what your opinion.
That is why I always say “socialist paradise” and talk about Boviliarism and Chavistas when talking about Venezuela's socialism.
Venezuela is a failed state. It currently sits somewhere between a fascist dictatorship, a plutocracy and a theocracy. The fact is that apart from the oil industry there is no production for the government to own in Venezuela.
It's a bankrupt philosophy in charge of a bankrupt state doing the two things that you most despise and castigate the west for doing. It runs massive budget deficits and is continually accumulating more debt.
Venezuela's 21st century socialism is being run on the credit card. And that credit cars isn't buying security or safety for 25,000 Venezuelans every year. They're nothing more than collateral damage while the Chavez families and other government officials live high on the hog.
Of course there is a definition on socialism, Anglolatino.
Mar 24th, 2014 - 02:45 pm - Link - Report abuse 0It's an alternative form for government contrary to capitalism where focus is on private enterprises.
What you are talking about is a definition on how this alternative form for government is to be implemented...
@37 : “Socialism is an alternative form for government contrary to capitalism where focus is on private enterprises”“”......what baloney !!!
Mar 24th, 2014 - 06:30 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You obviously don't know the difference between “communism” and “socialism”......When you are talking about the ownership of the means of production, or, ownership by the State, versus Privately-owned, you are comparing Communism - not socialism - to Capitalism.
When the State owns everything (ex: the now extinct USSR), YOU nitwit, are told what to do...no questions aked, no personal freedom, no power to decide anything for yourself......
In Capitalism, on principle, most of the means of production are privately-owned, and the State can, at times, be the owner of certain sectors of production which are considered to be of national security.
You CAN have a country with a capitalist economic system, but with a democratically elected, socialist-oriented government, one that allows and stimulates private enterprise, while providing a safety net for those who need it....and in which the people have total freedom to work where they want, in the profession they want....and get as rich as they want, if they have what it takes.....just take a look at Western Europe, or Scandinavia...good examples of socially-oriented democracies, with capitalist economic systems.
Go back to school numbnuts !!
In communism there is no state, you illiterate parrot...
Mar 24th, 2014 - 06:50 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Aaannyyyyway!
Mar 24th, 2014 - 07:31 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Uruguay is more socialist than Venezuela.
Agreed.
It is also safer and doesn't suffer almost 25,000 unsolved murders per year.
So, we agree socialism is not to blame then?
Mar 24th, 2014 - 07:55 pm - Link - Report abuse 0;)
Hell no. Off course socialism isn't to blame.
Mar 24th, 2014 - 08:39 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Chavismo and his 21st century boliviarism/socialism is to blame.
But 25,000 Venezuelans die every year and there is obviously a cause. That blame lays solely at the feet of the corrupt plutarchy that was formerly headed by Chavez and is headed by Maduro.
Transferring ownership of anything from private citizens to the government so government officials can solely profit and benefit isn't socialism. That's outright corruption and the creation of oligarchs.
Cloaking this corruption and plunder with the cloak of socialism is just to keep the ignorant happy and placated. Blind faith has its uses.
And here I thought the blame was on the murderers...
Mar 24th, 2014 - 08:42 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Bedwettter Stevie.
Mar 24th, 2014 - 09:21 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You are truly an idiot.
Your attempts at distraction fail.
However you label the government of Venezuela, surely 25000 violent homicides per year is a failure to govern?
The purpose of good government is to provide the opportunity for provision and SECURITY for the citizens who elected said government. (Amongst other duties too,of course).
@43 fool.
why do people murder at the rate of 25000 per year?
Are they all psychopaths and serial killers?
Or the desperately poor?
As I have said before you know nothing of Venezuela Sewer Mouth Stevie.
As you have now proved.
On a better note. Thank you Anglotino & Jack B for providing the facts.
ilsen
Mar 24th, 2014 - 09:32 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The thing is that the far right in Venezuela are so desperate to get into power that they pay loads of cash in order to create Chaos. Be it burning the streets, killing people, robbing or creating havoc in general...
The so called far right killed 25000 people last year and stole billions of dollars from the Chavista dictatorship?
Mar 24th, 2014 - 10:15 pm - Link - Report abuse 0stop trying to distract with your rumours. Face facts.
No, isen, they paid to create Chaos. The murders are a product of this Chaos. As for who pulled the trigger, I wouldn't know.
Mar 24th, 2014 - 10:20 pm - Link - Report abuse 0As for the billions of dollars, that's only happening in your head.
All the money is being invested in the social programs nobody is filling their pockets.
Of course there is corruption, but not even close to the amount there were before Chávez.
Ha! Stevie drank the Kool-Aid!
Mar 25th, 2014 - 04:13 am - Link - Report abuse 0You really believe all that propaganda don't you!?
I amazed. You have really bought into it haven't you?
You absolutely lap it up. Have you actually even been to Latin America?
your style of paranoid polemic is considered utterly ridiculous. Just like Maduro and his little bird.
You lot always do that...
Mar 25th, 2014 - 06:14 am - Link - Report abuse 0When you run out of arguments you start talking about my whereabouts as it somehow would have a deeper impact on anything whatsoever.
I can back my views up just as much as you can back yours up.
You lot disqualify “our” media.
We disqualify “your” media.
What's your point?
That you're pointless, I guess.
Mar 25th, 2014 - 09:16 am - Link - Report abuse 0As is this conversation.
Bye!
Bye...
Mar 25th, 2014 - 09:24 pm - Link - Report abuse 0:)
@39 “In communism there is no state, you illiterate parrot.”
Mar 26th, 2014 - 05:26 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Stevie, your are are even more stupid and more ignorant than I thought you were.....and that's a compliment
Just fyg, “Communism” is , QUOTE“ : a system of social organization in which all economic and social activity is controlled by a totalitarian state dominated by a single and self-perpetuating political party”; UNQUOTE.
So, a couple of simple questions, genius....“how can communism exist without a State ?? or, is it, in your brilliant mind, a virtual concept that has no practical application” ?? C'mon numbnuts, enlighten us all !!
Jack
Mar 26th, 2014 - 07:24 pm - Link - Report abuse 0According to Karl Marx and his manifesto, communism is a stateless, classless and moneyless society.
But of course you know better than the man that, together with Engels, deeveloped the concept...
:-))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
Mar 26th, 2014 - 07:54 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Jack
Mar 26th, 2014 - 10:52 pm - Link - Report abuse 0It's easy, if you're not illiterate, that is...
Socialism is, according to Marx, the path to communism. Communism is an end goal, a society where everybody produces what they can and take what they need. There is no money, no classes and NO STATE.
Enlighted?
Aaah the difference between theory and practice.
Mar 27th, 2014 - 12:09 am - Link - Report abuse 0Theory + humans = practice.
What do they say? No plan survives contact with the enemy.
That has nothing to do with communism, and doesn't affect the definition of the word...
Mar 27th, 2014 - 06:04 am - Link - Report abuse 0Can anybody show me this 'Democratic Clause' that the whole of South America has signed up to?
Mar 27th, 2014 - 08:53 am - Link - Report abuse 0Has everything to do with communism. Without humans communism doesn't exist. But with humans, can it exist?
Mar 27th, 2014 - 10:04 am - Link - Report abuse 0I didn't say it affected the definition. That was those random voices in your head.... again!
With humans like you lot? No. Communism is not possible.
Mar 27th, 2014 - 10:55 am - Link - Report abuse 0Mao talked about 500 years of dictatorship of the proletariat. Me, I don't think that will do it. Greed and egoism if far to rooted in your genes.
Yes, blame humanity for your flaws...
Can anybody show me this 'Democratic Clause'
Mar 27th, 2014 - 01:05 pm - Link - Report abuse 0that the whole of South America has signed up to?
@53, 55 Stevie....Marx's concept of communism projected an “ideal” society , bla-bla-bla...we know all about it, in THEORY...but what happened in PRACTICE, was a huge failure, because Mr.Marx forgot to consider the main element - the human being - but if you think that the USSR and Eastern Germany were examples of success, no point in discussing it any further.
Mar 27th, 2014 - 04:02 pm - Link - Report abuse 0(61) GeoffWard2
Mar 27th, 2014 - 05:47 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Here you are, you lazy Anglo....:
http://www.unasursg.org/uploads/61/5e/615e42826e009f160d8d8d420a2086bf/Protocolo-adicional-compromiso-con-la-democracia.pdf
“With humans like you lot? No. Communism is not possible.”
Mar 27th, 2014 - 10:40 pm - Link - Report abuse 0And yet I note that not a single human lives in a communist society so that should have read: 'with humans like US lot'.
You can't keep blaming others for a failure when you yourself are also part of that failure.
ARTICLE 4
Mar 28th, 2014 - 12:31 pm - Link - Report abuse 0'The Council of Heads of State and Government or, in its absence, the Council of Ministers of Foreign Affairs may establish, in the event of a breach or threat of breach against the democratic order, the measures outlined below, for the purpose of re-establishing the democratic institutional political process.
Said measures shall enter into force on the date on which the respective decision is adopted:
a.- Suspension of the right to participate in the various bodies and branches of UNASUR, as well as the suspension of the rights and benefits enjoyed under the Constitutive Treaty of UNASUR.
b.- Partial or complete closure of land borders, including the suspension
and/or limitation of trade, air and maritime traffic, communications and provision of energy, services and supplies.
c.- Advocate the suspension of the affected State in the ambit of other
regional and international organisations.
d.- Promote, with third countries and/or regional blocs, the suspension of the rights and/or benefits enjoyed by the affected State under the co-operation agreements to which it is party.
e.- Adoption of additional political and diplomatic sanctions.'
In other words,
the original 'clause' was a Unasur protocol to sanction any STATE that became 'undemocratic'.
The amend - the 'Democratic Clause' - changes the whole meaning of the protocol to bring the weight of ALL Unasur nations against ANYBODY that they feel might change the status quo:
'ARTICLE 1
This Protocol shall apply in the event of
• a breach or threat of breach against the democratic order,
• a violation of the constitutional order or
• any situation that jeopardises the legitimate exercising of power and the application of the values and principles of democracy.'
This Protocol can be used to control any person, group, Opposition, newspaper, radio or television, etc that takes ANY position other than that of the State itself.
This protects Venezuela's 'rule by edict'.
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