MercoPress. South Atlantic News Agency
Mas defies Madrid: Catalonia will go ahead with the independence referendum
Catalonia President Artur Mas said he would forge ahead with his region's plans to hold a referendum on independence in November after Spain's parliament overwhelmingly rejected the petition. After a seven-hour debate in Madrid, and despite heavy support for the separatist movement in the wealthy northeastern region, 299 lawmakers voted against, 47 voted for and one abstained. Read full article
Comments
Disclaimer & comment rulesWith regions within Spain wanting to leave; you would have to be deluded to imagine that Gibraltans would actually want to become part of such a dysfunctional state.
Apr 10th, 2014 - 09:57 am - Link - Report abuse 0When Spain makes itself desirable enough for Catalonians and Basques to want to stay Spanish; then perhaps it will stand a chance with Gibraltar.
But after 300 years they are yet to accomplish that.
Don't think you thought that one through Skip...
Apr 10th, 2014 - 11:15 am - Link - Report abuse 0With regions within UK wanting to leave; you would have to be deluded to imagine that anyone would actually want to become part of such a dysfunctional state.
Just wondering will Russia accept this referendum as a true will of the people.
Apr 10th, 2014 - 12:12 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Also Given Russia claimed hypocrisy in the UK defaming the Crimea referendum.
Does that mean Russia was supportive of the Falkland Islands referendum?
@2 “With a country member of the UK being subjected to a barrage of lies by a demagogue with no concern for ”his people“, you would have to be deluded not to want to belong to a state so intent on equal opportunities for all”.
Apr 10th, 2014 - 12:20 pm - Link - Report abuse 0But then scots have always been pretty deluded. Just imagine a little bunch of barbarians trying to match a NATION with possessions in FOUR continents. Unsure of their sexual orientation. Unprepared for eventualities.
And the comparison with today? The United Kingdom has bases and links all around the world. Little scottieland has none. And Salmond's Plan B in case he can't just walk into the EU, can't have currency union, can't have “free trade and movement” between non-EU scotland and, for the time being, EU UK, no money, no defences. For 300 years, little scotland has relied on the UK. What will it do when it can't? Will it run to France? As it has before. If France tries to help a non-EU state, what will happen to France? Will it cause a war? Another war? The United Kingdom, i.e. England, is used to fighting France, scotland and Spain. At the same time. And beating them all. What we can see is scotland reverting to its “history”. Incompetent barbarians engaged in cattle and sheep-stealing. Similarities between scotland and argieland. “We want”. “We demand”. And how do we “classify” A_Voice? Salmond? Big Mouth?
The GOOD thing is that scots are showing their true colours. It will probably be best if no scot remains in England. On a daily basis, scots throw away any “goodwill” they might have achieved in 300 years. Would you want a scheming, skiving, stealing scot living in YOUR neighbourhood? Not so different to argies, are they? Amazing to think that as many as one-third of Falkland Islanders may have scottish ancestry. Doubt if many present-day Falkland Islanders would have much in common with present-day scots. United Kingdom of England, Wales, Northern Ireland and Falkland Isles?
Still boring A_Voice
Apr 10th, 2014 - 12:59 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Who exactly is the UK trying to incorporate?
Spain wants to take over and incorporate Gibraltar.
The UK..... umm... err..... well that comparison wasn't thought through too well.
Good old Conq! Always worth the price of admission!
Apr 10th, 2014 - 01:47 pm - Link - Report abuse 0:-)
And a month ago there was talk about the Sardinians and Venetians now want to leave Italy too...
Apr 10th, 2014 - 02:45 pm - Link - Report abuse 0http://rt.com/news/sardinia-vote-independence-italy-417/
Why is it that Brussels pushes further into federation and centralism while small regions are threatening to break it apart all together??
They seem to be in a race against time to bring in further Eastern European countries while Western ones are further doubting.
I would be inclined to believe that if one small guy walks away it will trigger a domino effect on the whole of Europe.
@ 5 Anglotino
Apr 10th, 2014 - 04:39 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Stop upsetting the bully, will you please!
:o)
@7
Apr 10th, 2014 - 06:30 pm - Link - Report abuse 0When has Europe ever looked the same throughout its history? Territories in Europe have chopped and changed for hundreds of years, it wasn't too long ago that Scotland was wanting to become a part of Spain, England used to be a part of France.
Independence movements come and go, I firmly believe that Greece won't look the same shape it does now for too much longer. I am very relaxed about Scotland leaving the UK, if the English people had their way they would have been gone a long time ago.
The laughable state of affairs in the UK is that after the vote in September we will have a majority of Scots that want to stay in the UK and a majority of English who want them to leave. You have to question who should voting to leave who?
As for Catalonia, anything that damages Spain and takes their attention away from Gibraltar is a good thing.
# 4
Apr 10th, 2014 - 08:02 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Do you wish your 480,000 English people in Scotland returned ?
If they want to stay, no problem. I can't see them wanting to go south with people like you around.
You are probably correct in your statements. The Scots should all return North . After centuries of trying to educate the English, it is a lost cause.
Their delusions of grandeur prevents this.
You wish to take us on in a war ? The odds are slightly in your favour 13 to 1 against us. You also wish to include Spain and France in this .
I thought that Argies were delusional but you are a certifiable nut case.
By the way, will you be leading the charge or will you be crapping yourself hiding in a hole in the ground?
Did you see the TV program the other night when an English minister said that England could not afford to build a Trident base if they had to pull out of Faslane. Oh dear, how could you threaten anyone with no nukes. By the way, did you know that HMS Diamond cracked her decks when she was doing her gunnery trials off Tiree. At present that is her only offensive weapon apart from her helicopter ! You are welcome to them.
Never mind, keep venting your spleen. Britworker, same to you although you do it in a more mannered fashion.
I see that you speak for the whole of England. I must know the only 17 in the land that disagree with you.
Anyway best wishes from the best side of Hadrian's Wall.
@10
Apr 10th, 2014 - 09:03 pm - Link - Report abuse 0That's the spirit Clyde.
You mentioned the Spaniard Hadrian but didn't go on to remind them how they were culled by the Iberians and Italians and dominated by them for 400 years. More than long enough to turn them in to sandal wearing Latinos.
Like their Latino brethren in Patagonia, send them back to Italy and Spain!
@8 ChrisR
Apr 11th, 2014 - 09:34 am - Link - Report abuse 0And he's gone to sulk.
He has a very Toby take on remembering situations such as these.
#4
Apr 11th, 2014 - 11:34 am - Link - Report abuse 0Here's anther one for you. Do you remember that after the Falklands do , they said they would never use aluminium in warships again. Guess what. They have !
My source, who worked on the building of ALL the Type 45's, said that they were built with a bonded layer of steel/aluminium--a recently developed process. His words “if there is a fire then the ship will go up like an effing sparkler ”
He was aboard the Diamond during her gunnery trials when the deck was cracked. As he said, it is only 6mm thick.
Now I cannot vouch for the truth of this but I have no reason to disbelieve him. Your English government are too bloody mean to have the ships built to a specification required instead they want it built on the cheap.
I hope your English carriers are up to scratch. The F-35 is still having trouble.
Never mind, I have the solution for you.
You could fill the decks with Morris Dancers and terrify any potential enemy with this fearsome sight.
Beat wishes from the sunny North.
The Scottish negative will have an impact on the Catalonian vote. I would advise Mas to wait further time and distance from the Scots who depend far more on London than the Catalans depend on Madrid.
Apr 11th, 2014 - 01:15 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Clyde, as my family heritage is in part from north of Hadrian's Wall, my sympathies are thus with them to have the vote. Too much of the North Sea Oil revenues went south and it's only fair that they give a wake up call to London. I'm not saying that they don't make mistakes (their Catalan designed parliament building is a perfect example) but the rest of the UK will just have to get over it. The pound, joint defense, embassies, etc... will remain for some time in the transition. Plus, the Queen herself is a Scot...
Apr 11th, 2014 - 09:49 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Btw: the F-35 is going to be a white elephant as costs have just gone into space...
@15 Chicureo
Apr 12th, 2014 - 01:15 am - Link - Report abuse 0As much as I respect your opinion on matters relating to the Southern Cone, I feel that you are out of your depth on this debate. (Re: Scotland. Not the original article!)
Peace!
:-)
@13
Apr 12th, 2014 - 09:51 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“You could fill the decks with Morris Dancers and terrify any potential enemy with this fearsome sight”.
Clyde-that's brilliant-they should be deployed to Gibraltar and the Falklands.
Looks like Catalonia will end up having some sort of vote and the election looks like a good ploy.
@ 13 Clyde15
Apr 13th, 2014 - 11:33 am - Link - Report abuse 0“My source, who worked on the building of ALL the Type 45's, said that they were built with a bonded layer of steel/aluminium--a recently developed process. His words “if there is a fire then the ship will go up like an effing sparkler ”
You have to remember that all the original designers and probably the person who stated that aluminium would not be used again are retired if not deceased.
The current crop of designers have different outlooks, they have to with all the “improvements” in technology AND of course they think they know best.
“He was aboard the Diamond during her gunnery trials when the deck was cracked. As he said, it is only 6mm thick.”
Perhaps the aprons around some points inaccessible to heavy deck gear might be 6mm thick but where the FLT’s and ammo carriers have to operate, then no, I don’t believe him. 6mm chequerplate would not stand long term use by this equipment, nevermind a composite.
#18
Apr 13th, 2014 - 04:18 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I cannot comment on the truth of his statement but what he told me was that as a Bae employee he was on the Diamond during her gunnery trials off Tiree and the deck sustained a crack during the firing tests.
Being neither a naval designer nor engineer I have NO technical knowledge ,BUT, could it not be that the stresses on the deck may have been transmitted by vibration and caused a crack in a different location remote from the actual gun turret ?
He didn't say that the deck at the gun turret cracked.
I checked my original statement and I only said the deck cracked. It might have been a faulty weld somewhere else.
The person who told me this was walking his dog near the Nuclear power station at Hunterston. We initially talked about the Peregrines and Ravens nesting nearby. Then it got onto the enormous wind turbine near to it. Then it came round to naval vessels as one was just passing off Arran. I mentioned that I had been on HMS Dido when she was fitting out at Yarrows in 1962. He told me that he had been a shipwright at Yarrows from 1960 and had worked on all of the Leander class Frigates built there. The conversation then went from the type 21, 22,23 to 45.
@ 19 Clyde15
Apr 13th, 2014 - 08:25 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I did not say the gun caused the failure but that a 6mm thick “deck” is a somewhat fanciful design concept for the whole deck.
I know when I looked at handling equipment the Navy were involved (many, many years ago) with Lansing Bagnall the FLT people about moving modular ammunition pallets across the deck with very steep deck angles. The total load of ammo and FLT was 5 tonnes the majority of which was centred on the front drive axle. I have no knowledge how it was resolved but it was resolved, LB sold a few trucks to the Navy on the back of those tests.
6mm composite steel and aluminium just cannot take that sort of load without buckling at least. You are correct when you say that a failed / missing set of welds would likely cause stress raising elsewhere but I hope that the incident was an isolated one relating to poor assembly / construction otherwise it raises a question about other ships of the same type and we don’t want any problems with the T45’s.
#20
Apr 13th, 2014 - 09:51 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I would assume that any “design/manufacturing” fault would have been sorted after this as there were three more ships built after Diamond.
It is surely unlikely that they would have been accepted for service is this was a common fault. I presume shake down cruises are designed to test all systems and rectify any shortcomings before they are commissioned into service.
@ 21 Clyde15
Apr 14th, 2014 - 11:16 am - Link - Report abuse 0“I presume shake down cruises are designed to test all systems and rectify any shortcomings before they are commissioned into service.”
That is what they are for, certainly, however until the ship has actually been through a substantial period of actual service you can never be sure.
When I led a design team on electrical; domestic equipment we did all the design reviews, checked actual components, built machines from actual production components (to validate development testing) but one thing always came through.
Only when the machine was in the market and being used by the public could you be sure the thing was OK. The problem is very simple: nobody reads the instructions before using the device; everybody thinks that the “problem” is the manufacturers fault, not theirs. Sometimes it is, for well designed products it rarely is.
Once the reality was politely pointed out to them they go off in a huff!
Still Boring A_Voice
Apr 17th, 2014 - 12:32 am - Link - Report abuse 0Waiting for your reply!
http://en.mercopress.com/2014/04/16/spanish-government-vessels-incursions-into-gibraltar-waters-reach-600#comment321081
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