MercoPress. South Atlantic News Agency
Argentina and Chile prepare to celebrate 1984 peace and friendship treaty
Argentina and Chile defense ministers Agustín Rossi and Jorge Burgos Varela met in Buenos Aires 'to continue advancing and deepening' the bilateral relation, which this year will have a special celebration motive: the 30th anniversary of the Peace and Friendship treaty which definitively put an end to the Beagle Channel longstanding dispute. Read full article
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Disclaimer & comment rulesIt's good to see Argentina acting like an adult for once (but we'll wait and see how long it is before they are saying the usual - Chile supports Argentina's claim over the Falklands, blah, blah, blah.) Peace is a good thing, but I'll bet Chile still doesn't trust Argentina as far as they could throw them.
Apr 11th, 2014 - 05:30 am - Link - Report abuse 0It's a pity that they can't be more adult in their dealings with the Falkland Islanders.
Perhaps Argentina's 'axis' (poor choice of words?) of Argentina's foreign policy should be to raise it's profile across the world. It could start by paying off it's debts. That would certainly increase it's standing in the world.
But never mind. One day Argentina might be lucky enough to get a decent government that actually does something to help improve Argentina instead of lining their own pockets.
Argentina can't pay its debts, its broke. Don't believe the figures on reserves, they are of the same quality as all the government statistics - lies.
Apr 11th, 2014 - 09:27 am - Link - Report abuse 0Basically, the relationship between Argentina and Chile have always been good one. Taking into account that they share one of the larger border in the World the relationships were very good. They have never been engaged in a war between them.
Apr 11th, 2014 - 12:25 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Please, compare this history to European countries ones.....they have been fighting among them since the beginning of times. Just after WWII they realized that war brought them poverty and sufferings.
In addition, it is qiute clear that Chile and Argentina consider that they are neighbors while the UK have never consider itself as a neighboring country of Argentina.
Both, Chile and Argentina understood that, no matter the result of an hipotetical war, they would have to share the border forever. While the UK considers that by winning a war everything is settled.
Argentina and Chle, learned to understand that they will always need each other. The UK doesn't need to talk...because it doesn't need Argentina, or Chile....“we don´t need these underdeveloped and barbaric countries at all”
The future will show us who is wrong. Either the UK, or Chile and Argentina working toghether.
@3 pgerman
Apr 11th, 2014 - 12:33 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The relationship between Chile and Argentina has not always been good.
In fact, Argentina were going to invade Chile in 1982 (perhaps you just forget things like that - but I guarantee that Chile hasn't).
It is good that they never have had to shoot each other, but that was mainly because Argentina thought they'd test their troops on the Falklands 1st, get public support behind them, before invading Chile.
Only it didn't work out too well for them, and Chile gave the UK as much support as they could.
Also the UK has never said it doesn't need to talk - that is you putting words in their mouths.
In fact, in February 2013 the British were willing to sit down and talk with Argentina - and it was Argentina who ran away (in front of the whole world no less) and refused to talk.
The UK's relationship with Chile has always been friendly, and we do a lot of trade with them.
It's Argentina who doesn't believe it needs anyone. It's Argentina who is always blocking trade and reneging on treaties. Not the UK and not Chile.
Maybe on day Argentina will get a decent government and discover it's true potential, but I doubt it.
Chile will overtake Argentina, and one day Argentines will look on with envy at countries like Chile and wonder where it all went wrong. But of course, they'll never blame themselves, it'll always be someone else's fault, won't it?
@4
Apr 11th, 2014 - 01:04 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Argentina and Chile shared their border, one of the largest in the World, since their independenca. 200 year now, whitout a war. Just some small border incidents......how is that this cannot be considered a good relationship?
Was Argentina going to invade Chile?....Really?....From where these tales are taken? The dispute over the Bealgle Channel escalated until a dangerous level. Both dictators. Pinochet and Videla, noticed that they were losing the control of the situation so they decided to accept the mediation of the Pope who helped both countries to find a solution.
Compare the attitude of both, Videla and Pinochet, to the UK Foreign Minister's rejection to Francisco offering “The last thing we need is to have a religious conflict”...Let me add that I'm not a catholic beliver but I would accept any mediation that could help me to find a solution.
The UK also rejected the mediation of the US Government...
The UK was willing to negotiate during some decades, basically because it didn't want to afford the manteninance of the Islands but after the war the decided thay they don't need more “talks”...let's see who is wrong.
Based on the total added cost of keeping the current status of the Islands since 1982 I would say that it is a mistake. But who knows...the UK is a country with plenty of experience is “small wars” and “conflicts” so, I might be worng. Let's see what the future of the South Atlantic issue brings to both, Argentina and the UK. We will be able to see who is wrong.
Seems like we could do with some more Papal mediation here - Argentina disputes Islands with a neighbour, Pope mediates, islands are deemed to belong to Argentinas neighbour, end of..............
Apr 11th, 2014 - 01:47 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@ Estimado pgerman:
Apr 11th, 2014 - 02:00 pm - Link - Report abuse 0As you know from previous discussions, I disagree with you on the details of the Beagle dispute, but I agree with you on this occasion on commending the largely peaceful nature of our history.
...
IMO Chile is wise to always maintain a certain distance from Argentina. Cooperation and trade are good, but I don't like Bachelet's plan to move closer to Brasil and Argentina. Chile has long been very independent and it should remain so.
@5 pgerman
Apr 11th, 2014 - 02:11 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The UK refused the US government 'mediation' because it left the Falkland Islanders at the mercy of the murderous Argentine regime whilst this 'mediation' took place.
Let's not forget that Argentina broke a legally binding UN Security Council resolution, as well as numerous UN General Assembly resolutions over the Falklands.
The UK CANNOT negotiate away sovereignty of the Falkland Islands because the ONLY people who can decide on a change of sovereignty are the Falkland Islanders themselves.
Sooner or later Argentina will wake up to that fact. They've had 32 years to prove to the Falkland Islanders that Argentina is different to the murderous junta that tried to oppress, dispossess, and murder them.
32 years to talk to the Islanders, to build bridges of trust and friendship. 32 years to persuade the Islanders that being part of Argentina would be beneficial to them.
But what did Argentina do? It sulked, it has behaved and still behaves like a bunch of criminals. It refuses to acknowledge the existence of the Islanders, calls them names (despite the Falkland Islands community predating the existence of the Republic of Argentina), and says that they don't have the same rights as the other 7 billion people on the planet.
Argentina has lied about the Falkland Islanders at every turn, even brainwashing future generations with those lies. They have tried to damage them economically.
Why oh why would this attitude make the Falkland Islanders suddenly turn around and want to be Argentine? Because that is truly the ONLY way there can be a change of sovereignty.
Also, you always go on about the cost of the protecting the Falklands (which wouldn't be necessary if it wasn't for Argentina's aggressive attitude), well don't worry about it. Us UK taxpayers are happy for our money to be used to protect the Falkland Islanders.
We know about what is important and what isn't. It's a pity that all you seem to care about is money, and not people.
I totally agree with LEPRecon @8
Apr 11th, 2014 - 05:12 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Also would like to reaffirm that Chile and the UK have enjoyed a solid and stable friendship for many, many years.
Correct me if I am wrong? but has it not been a persistent Argentine Myth, that the reason they sent so may untrained, ill equiped, poor conscripts to fight the British, was because their best troops had to be kept on the border with Chile!!!!!
Apr 11th, 2014 - 06:41 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Did someone on here say they have always been friendly with Chile?
Sheesh, yet more proof of an alternate reality.
I see Varela is counting his fingers... wise man.
Apr 11th, 2014 - 08:07 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Good friends? So why does Chile maintain a military capable of fighting a war on three fronts? And why are there defensive minefields from Cabo de Hornos to Torres del Paine?
And Argentina is still disputing the border in the southern ice field.
No wonder there is the Chilean saying..'never trust an Argentinian with a map'!
@5 pgerman
Apr 11th, 2014 - 08:08 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Yes Argentina was going to invade Chile, your military junta has already admitted to that. Do try to keep up.
http://en.mercopress.com/2012/04/05/we-were-prepared-for-war-with-chile-not-in-malvinas-admits-former-argentine-military-governor
You really are a typical Argentine aren't you? Constantly living in a state of denial about everything.
Pgerman: The ONLY reason that Argentina did not invade my country was because of our armed forces. Argentina had far better superiority over the air and sea, but our smaller, but well equipped and trained Army would have eventually been devastating to their inept conscripts led by a corrupt leadership. The Chilean air-force would have been destroyed within days and our navy would have given them a severe bloody nose, but there were clear intentions by the junta to eventually punish our kleptomaniac neighbors, including in Mendoza.
Apr 11th, 2014 - 09:19 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Today, the balance of power has completely changed as Argentina could never launch a credible threat against Chile or the Falklands.
Just heard on BBC World Service that UK Ambassador to Argentina has been 'called in'. Due to military exercises in South Atlantic.
Apr 12th, 2014 - 12:11 am - Link - Report abuse 0Here comes the “distraction bomb”!
As I predicted.
pgerman rambling as usual when he writes the following nonsense in denial of facts: “Was Argentina going to invade Chile?....Really?....From where these tales are taken?”
Apr 12th, 2014 - 02:31 am - Link - Report abuse 0As has been documented, 22 December 1978 Argentina initiated Operation Soberanía, an attempt via military force to occupy the islands around Cape Horn, intending to judge from Chile's response whether to advance further. However, the operation was aborted within a few hours.
Try “La Estrategia Nacional y Militar que planificó Argentina, en el marco de una estrategia total, para enfrentar el conflicto con Chile el año 1978”.
There are some good jokes around denigrating the Argentines and the best ones originate in Chile! Long may they continue!
Apr 12th, 2014 - 06:22 am - Link - Report abuse 0(13) Chicureo
Apr 12th, 2014 - 04:31 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Don't get mad at young Argie Pgerman...
He is too young to know what really happened during the Seventies...
That the Opus Dei Armed Farces of Argentina and the Legionnaires of Christ Armed Faces of Chile battled to prove who of them served the Lord in the best way...
But I do know ONE THING...
I didn't know ONE single civilian, east or west of the Andes, that wanted that “War”...NOT ONE...
Did you?
@14
Apr 12th, 2014 - 09:28 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“Here comes the “distraction bomb”!
As I predicted.”
Correct-if I were Argentinian I would have grave doubts about an intelligence service that hasn't worked out that these military exercises have happened three times a year since the 1980s.
Still, those self defence missiles with a range of 4 miles must seriously worry a country nearly 400 miles away.
Think, how many generations back can you trace your ancestors in South America?
Apr 13th, 2014 - 03:46 am - Link - Report abuse 0@5 You really must learn some history. That is to say, REAL history.
Apr 13th, 2014 - 09:37 am - Link - Report abuse 0On 22 July 1971 Salvador Allende and Alejandro Lanusse, the Presidents of Chile and Argentina, signed an arbitration agreement (the Arbitration Agreement of 1971). This agreement related to their dispute over the territorial and maritime boundaries between them, and in particular the title to the Picton, Nueva and Lennox islands near the extreme end of the American continent, which was submitted to binding arbitration under the auspices of Queen Elizabeth II of the United Kingdom.
On 2 May 1977 the court ruled that the islands belonged to Chile (see the Report and decision of the Court of Arbitration). On 25 January 1978 Argentina repudiated the arbitration decision and on 22 December 1978 started (and a few hours later aborted) military action to invade both those islands and continental Chile.
But that's just the start.
The Argentines planned amphibious landings to seize the islands southwards of the Beagle Channel, along with massive land-based attacks:
22 December 1978 a task force of the Argentine Navy and the Argentine Marines would seize the islands Horn, Freycinet, Hershell, Deceit and Wollaston.
22 December 1978 the Argentine task force would seize Picton, Nueva und Lennox islands and secure for the navy the east mouth of the Beagle Channel.
22 December 1978 the invasion of continental Chile would begin. The Fifth Army Corps would seize Punta Arenas and Puerto Natales, the largest two cities of the Chilean Magallanes Region.
23 December 1978 the Argentine Argentine Air Force would begin attacks against Chilean Air Force.
Third Army Corps would start an offensive through the Andean passes of “Libertadores”, “Maipo” and “Puyehue” (today Cardenal Samore Pass) to seize Santiago, Valparaíso and the Los Lagos Region.
Look at that. All the details!
THINK
Apr 14th, 2014 - 04:44 am - Link - Report abuse 0I agree that almost everyone did not want war, including Pinochet who played tough. I personally was very worried. Chile was weak in naval capabilities and pathetic in air support. We thought at the time the Argentine navy would destroy us, but unfortunately the SOB Admiral Merino actually wanted to fight. We came within hours of a war.
In war college we learned that Pinochet planned to counter strike in Mendoza and take territory, but we would have been overrun in the far south. We would then counter by pushing eastward and take the center.
CONQUERER
Excellent summary, but there is a lot missing. The attack to the center by the 3rd would be destroyed.
Is it not sheer nonsense to either establish or re-establish friendship
Apr 14th, 2014 - 06:10 pm - Link - Report abuse 0between countries through a treaty- after detesting each other? What has peace to do with friendship?
Philippe
@18
Apr 15th, 2014 - 03:21 am - Link - Report abuse 0It's the UK that worries Argentina. A war thirsty nation with still some good weaponry at its disposal.
No doubt a threat to Argentina. Much more so given you have already attacked us before.
@23
Apr 15th, 2014 - 03:09 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You can sleep at night. The UK will only retaliate if attacked, so if Argentina stays at home, so will the Brits.
#23
Apr 15th, 2014 - 11:22 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You should be afraid, very afraid.
The nuclear submarines could be close right now.
But you will never actually know. Will you.
Maybe that is the 'insecurity' the Argentines complain of?
lol.
night night. Sleep well little children. We can burn you in your beds and you will never even hear the missiles coming.
They are that fast.
Unlike your intellect.
Lol!!!!!!
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