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National strike paralyzes Argentina; government blasts roadblocks

Friday, April 11th 2014 - 08:24 UTC
Full article 66 comments

Argentine organized labor leader Hugo Moyano called on the government of president Cristina Fernandez to take note of Thursday's strong mobilization across the country after unions affiliated to the Teamsters figure and gastronomic heavyweight Luis Barrionuevo caused widespread disruption. Read full article

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  • LEPRecon

    Government lawmakers and mayors released a communiqué saying that the protest measures “only benefit the great corporations that pretend to impede the government's policy of economic growth with inclusion”.

    Since when have the unions and the corporations been best buddies?

    The workers have legitimate concerns. Concerns about how they're going to feed their families. Concerns about growing lawlessness and the ability to protect their families.

    It's about time the Argentine government stopped making excuses and started actually doing SOMETHING to address the problems.

    But no, it's all the fault of big business, the unions, the greedy farmers (like the government can talk about greed), the middle class oppressing the poor, the Falkland Islanders, the British, NATO, the martians, the man in the moon.

    It's always someone else's fault according to them.

    Well no it isn't. When you form a government you become responsible for everything that happens in your country. The President is responsible for EVERYTHING that happens on their watch.

    They've had years where they could've turned things around. But no, they had to stick to their ideological economic dogma, instead of facing reality.

    And they still refuse to face reality. Argentine government = Pathetic losers.

    Apr 11th, 2014 - 09:11 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • CaptainSilver

    Its started....

    Apr 11th, 2014 - 09:22 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Anglotino

    CFK's goons use pickets against British companies and against cruise companies all the time....

    But now it's different and unacceptable.

    Apr 11th, 2014 - 09:29 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Klingon

    I actually agree with the government on this one. Blocking people from going to work and then claiming everyone supports you as they did not attend work that day is a sham.

    It is just 1 mafia against another with ordinary citizens trapped in the middle.
    If you don't like your job leave and find another.
    This last protest is 100% political.
    Moyano is a scumbag, just like the K's.
    No one is going to invest in Argentina when you have these union clowns controlling everything.

    Apr 11th, 2014 - 11:16 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • yankeeboy

    This was just a little theater giving everyone another day off. ( like they need it)
    If they really wanted to make life difficult they'd stop all transport 3-4 days and let BA run out of food and fuel.
    That may happen.
    I hope so.

    Apr 11th, 2014 - 12:12 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • *~TROLLING_CEASE_FIRE~*

    And while yankeeboy was all these years looking at events in Argentina with Tunnel vision:

    http://www.alternet.org/news-amp-politics/global-rankings-study-depicts-america-warp-speed-decline?paging=off&current_page=1#bookmark

    I had been warning you yankeeboy. And remember I told you, and it is not in this report, you are now 46th in math, and Americans are being denied work in companies all over the world because of lack of language skills.

    In the meantime more mass killings at schools, more shootings at military bases, more impunity (like the guy that for years went to a church in the south where people publicly confess their sins, his was, EVERY sunday, raping his daughter... no one did anything because “God forgave him”), more children in poverty in a new study, and the list of news this week out of the USA can keep going and going.

    Apr 11th, 2014 - 01:31 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • CabezaDura2

    As the situation deteriorates the social conflictivity will increase in hand.

    The unions will have plenty of time and opportunities to rock CFKs boat and humiliate the gov’t who is clearly nervous. Pressing to hard now will work against their agenda.

    The left wing sectors are too undisciplined and combative and have given the gov't the arguments it needs to victimize by blocking all access to CABA.

    Apr 11th, 2014 - 01:31 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • pgerman

    Peronism is a disease , a virus, a cancer that has become a regime of government such as the PRI in Mexico.

    After each decade of a peronist government, as it is mandated by the National Constitution , the end of a “reign ” of a chairman, either Menem or CFK, Peronists has to mutate, to adapt itself and presented itself as something new, as a new option of government.

    The same people who supported Menem and CFK,, now must offer a novel option . The same union leader as always, immortalized in power for decades , decided that it is time to “display” as opponents.

    The confrontation is not real , union representatives keep on voting for CFK in Congress, Aerolineas Argentinas is still led by trade unionists. It's just a facelift.

    After a decade of Menem, another decade of CFK .. it will come a new decade of Peronist regime, no matter the name of the Peronist President, either Scioli or Massa, the regime will continue plundering the country, and its population, in more backwardness and poverty.

    This strike was just a performance theater....as it was said, they will escort CFK to the cemetery gate.

    Apr 11th, 2014 - 01:38 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • *~TROLLING_CEASE_FIRE~*

    “If this index is an affront to your jingoistic sensibilities, the U.S. remains in first place for the number of incarcerated citizens per capita, adult onset diabetes, Creation education in schools, and for believing in angels.”

    “America’s rapid descent into impoverished nation status is the inevitable result of unchecked corporate capitalism. By every measure, we look like a broken banana republic. Not a single U.S. city is included in the world’s top 10 most livable cities. Only one U.S. airport makes the list of the top 100 in the world. Our roads, schools and bridges are falling apart, and our trains — none of them high-speed — are running off their tracks.”

    @7

    Argentina has the opposite problem of the USA, Unions that are too stifling. They have no unions left. Unsurprisingly, this inbalance creates tension when either the corporate or labor side dominates. Look at the Netherlands as an example of a compromise society, neither labor or business get everything they want, and how much better they are doing in Europe than France, dominated by Unions with a paralyzed economy, or the United Kingdom, dominated by banking/business and whose inequality figures are third worldly.

    Apr 11th, 2014 - 01:39 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • CabezaDura2

    8
    Well it could be worse orthodox peronism at least prevented the Cubans taking over the country in the 1970s alongside the armed forces.

    In fact the Kirchnerist gov't could have infiltrated 45.000- 50.000 agents in the State like Chavez did in Venezuela and now some extra thousands of paratroopers in to keep control. Maybe Kirchners were FAR more greedy and inward looking than Chavez was, but clearly Peronism has being a historic buffer to Latin American communism in Argentina.

    Apr 11th, 2014 - 01:50 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ilsen

    I predict a riot. ....

    Meanwhile, back on the ranch....

    Waiting for a big “distraction bomb” from kfc. Will the 'malvinas' rhetoric massively increase? Or will it be a whole new set of lies?

    Apr 11th, 2014 - 02:10 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • CabezaDura2

    @9 Tobi

    I don’t know about America but Argentina's unions at least traditionally (not only very powerful) have always being peronist. And a de stabilizing factor to any non peronist gov't.

    A Little lie of Moyano back in 2001 has still its effect to this day. Just look at the consequences of this.. A poor man has was robbed of a decade of his life visiting the court rooms, democracy interrupted, immense economic crisis, default, social decay and devaluation and the peronist gang got back in and will last till God knows when in power….

    Apr 11th, 2014 - 02:27 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • yankeeboy

    Tobi, I am very very very glad we don't rank high on a Commie er Social Progressive web site.

    The Social Progress Imperative creates a shared language and common goals to align different organizations and achieve greater social impact.

    Very very glad indeed!

    Apr 11th, 2014 - 03:11 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Brit Bob

    Wonderful news. Keep up the excellent work Cristina !

    Apr 11th, 2014 - 03:48 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Anglotino

    Did Nostrils read his link thoroughly?

    Or as per usual on here; peruse something and cherry pick?

    Because Argentina came in at 42nd on that index. That is behind all the “Anglo” countries he is continually bagging:
    1st New Zealand
    7th Canada
    10th Australia
    13th UK
    16th USA

    And was behind 27 European countries that he bags continuously as declining and bad places to live.

    Even more interesting when you break it down. For OPPORTUNITY, here is the rank:
    1st New Zealamd
    2nd Canada
    3rd Australia
    4th Ireland
    5th USA
    6th UK

    Anyone pick the common thread through those countries?

    Oh Argentina was 33rd.

    Apr 11th, 2014 - 03:49 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • *~TROLLING_CEASE_FIRE~*

    @13

    Wait. Don't you always vaunt the fact the USA has such great universities Harvard, Stanford, Yale, etc, in the world rankings?

    So now you are saying they suck, and their studies are untrustworthy?

    Then even in quality of universities the USA has become a has-been. Worse than I thought.

    BTW, I'll bring you the Forbes report (hardly commy), that has a similar ranking in which the USA is dropping like a stone in business friendliness, educated work-force, start-ups, and other categories.

    The only consistency is that both on “left” and “right” wing studies? The USA's gears are on full reverse.

    @15

    I bang on the Anglo countries because you are arrogant, unfriendly, supercilious people that think of yourselves as superior to Argentines for example. That attitude will hardly make you lovable.

    As for Europe, it is declining, ever since 1939.

    Apr 11th, 2014 - 04:03 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Stoker

    Summary justice....Argentine style

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SU457F1wqJ0

    Apr 11th, 2014 - 04:06 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • yankeeboy

    18. Toby, You, your grandchildren and their grandchildren will be long dead before the USA is not considered the richest most powerful country in the world.
    I'm certainly not worried about it.
    Just a year ago everyone was saying the Chinese would become the richest country in the next decade. Now nobody is saying that. Nobody.
    Remember me telling you that would happen.
    Yeah you do.

    I hope you didn't sell your sugar stores yet.
    I'll let you know when.

    Apr 11th, 2014 - 04:17 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • *~TROLLING_CEASE_FIRE~*

    But you admit the direction.

    A country in debt is neither the most powerful nor the richest.

    Apr 11th, 2014 - 04:32 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • axel arg

    LEGITIMATE PROTEST, OR BLACKMAIL?.
    Moyano seems to be concerned about inflation, insecurity, etc etc, however, these problems, are not much different from those we had when he was an ally of the government. While t is true that the right to protest is something absolutly legitimate, it's also true that if there was not any transportation, and if there were many bullies, who supported a cretin like barrionuevo, who threatened many pople, in order to force them to close their stores, or restaurants, it was obvious that many people were not going to go to work . As far as i'm concerned, my boss lived a violent moment, the night before when she was at a bingo house from our city, many bullies outside, threatened people who were inside, to leave the place, and close the bingo house. For this reason, she decided not to open the place where we work, becase we can't run the risk of suffering any attack, due to we work with children.
    Unfortunatelly, i heard the comments of many people on tv, who said that they were forced by bullies to close their shops.
    On the other hand, what was really pathetic, was to see people who say they are leftists, making blockades in the most important avenues. It's not the first time that these idiots make something that benefits the most reactionary sectors of the unions. Beside, when i see that the strike was supported by the rural society, then i realize that i can't support this strike, because the interests of that corporation, don't have anything to do with our's.
    On the other hand, if they really care about protesting against inflation, i wonder why didn't they protest against the big corporations, which increase the prices of the products, however, when i see that the rural society supports this strike, then it's evident that it was no more than a politic operation. All protests are politic, and there is nothing wrong with it, however, partisans blockades, are just a despisable way, to prejudice people and the government.

    Apr 11th, 2014 - 04:36 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • bushpilot

    @16 TCF

    “The only consistency is that both on “left” and “right” wing studies? The USA's gears are on full reverse.”

    And whose been running the country? A left wing neo-communist legitimately voted in by a majority who are also left thinking.

    Taking the same route as CFK, spewing the same “inclusion” leftist bull.

    They go on and on about how great their “inclusion” policies are and how much better everything is because of it, totally ignoring a whole country crapping out in front of them.

    And, they get voted back in.

    Apr 11th, 2014 - 04:46 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Condorito

    @15 Anglotino
    Not only do all those evil Anglo countries score higher than Argentina, but so do neighbouring Chile and Uruguay.

    @ Tobi
    Here is one for your studies, add “hoist by one's own petard” to your list of English idioms.

    Apr 11th, 2014 - 04:55 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Captain Poppy

    Axel you can't support anything until you've licked the shitballs off the ass hair on kirchner's ass crack. Go back to your anus cavern......you got your big raise with the teachers strike you socialist commie bastard!
    Communism is dead only you bolivarians are too stupid or corrupt to give it up. You're savior, the lord god china is dying a slow death. They are mediocre are coping and poor at innovating which is why they can't manage an economy or business. Anyone can manage during boom times, managing through adversity in market systems sets the free world apart from china. the BRICS should be an interesting pasttime to watch die. Perhaps you commies should have done more than pantomime capitalism......it's takes more.....yankee is right.........monkeys can pantomime too.

    Apr 11th, 2014 - 05:10 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • reality check

    Lep

    Love it, the bosses calling the shots withthe Unions!

    Priceless!

    Apr 11th, 2014 - 06:15 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Britworker

    I do recall on certain individuals on here saying that the UK was finished. It is rather looking like Argentina is finished, they are not going to pull themselves out of this mess. Anyway, a nice little map to look at here, and the BRICS certainly aren't doing very well at all.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/economics/10752204/UK-will-be-fastest-growing-economy-in-the-G7-this-year.html

    Apr 11th, 2014 - 06:16 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • pgerman

    The funny thing of people such as “axel arg” is that they ignore the most basic things of any Economy.

    Take for instance that the Argentine Government increased the monetary base 40% during year 2012 and (roughly) 25/30% during year 2013 in a country with an stagnant economy. Add the currency devaluation of the peso.

    So, is it that difficult to undertand the origin of the inflation?
    What would they expect with such printing money rate?

    But, as they don't understand reasons the responsibler of the inflation are the “groups”, the “Oligarchy”, the Moon, the tides...who knows?

    In addtion, in the recent past CFK, and her husband, supported the roadblock to the uruguayan border, to Shell gas-stations and to any company that was not willling to follow their wishes. Now they are furios because the situation is out of control...so it seems that there are “good roadblocks” and “bad roadblocks” depending on those who suffer them.

    What they ignored, and they don't care, is that any roadblock is against the law and the National Constitution since citizens have the right to move in the entire territory without any special authorization.

    Apr 11th, 2014 - 06:38 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • CabezaDura2

    26

    Import restrictions as well as emission hiked inflation even further in 2012.

    I believe that you have to be either a hypocrite and a bad person or a halfwit or either to vote and support kirchnerism.

    I don’t know if he is a good guy or not, but Axel certainly falls in the second category.

    Apr 11th, 2014 - 06:49 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • bushpilot

    “inflation, insecurity, etc etc, however, these problems, are not much different”

    I get the impression they are different, they are much worse. Not just the same as it was.

    “my boss lived a violent moment, the night before when she was at a bingo house from our city, many bullies outside, threatened people who were inside,”

    Kind of like your CFK's La Campora militants. Axel, you need to be equally against those thugs of CFK's.

    “when i see that the strike was supported by the rural society, then i realize that i can't support this strike, because the interests of that corporation, don't have anything to do with our's. ”

    They aren't your interests, so expressing them is unethical.

    “i wonder why didn't they protest against the big corporations”

    Axel, the corporations can charge the prices they want to charge. You are an idiot to think that regulating prices is the way to go. Your government has to promote competition and entry into that lucrative market and not impede it. They have to make and enforce anti-monopoly laws. If they are charging such unrealistic and crazy prices, other companies should be able to enter that market and undercut them.

    When there is a massive demand, anyone, even you, is going to go for the big bucks. The only way you will be stopped is by competition controlling your greed. Saying it is unfair will not in a thousand years change anything.

    Apr 11th, 2014 - 06:56 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • yankeeboy

    Tobi, I've stated many times the Prog running our country for the last 12 years have made us as close to Argentina as I care to admit. They are on the way out and we probably won't see them again for another generation.
    We aren't Argentina, when we make a mistake we correct it. We dont' double down.
    I feel sorry for you,. I know you've been off line because you lost your internet at home. Now your family is choosing between internet or food.
    I understand why you are angry.
    It is too bad you are angry at the wrong people.
    You still don't realize that your kids are going to be looking to Peru, Chile or Colombia for jobs and wonder how such a small country can do so well.

    Apr 11th, 2014 - 10:17 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Anglotino

    Poor Nostrils

    Didn't read his own link. Europe's been declining since 1939 and yet his own link proves that it still ranks highest on what he considers important.

    Poor Axel

    Being a bulky is acceptable when it is La Campora or the government. Unacceptable when it isn't. You made your own bed, now lie in it.

    Condorito
    I saw that. Imagine how much better they would be if they didn't have Argentina between them.

    Apr 11th, 2014 - 10:21 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ilsen

    Axel. The only thing I notice about your posts is how long it takes to scroll past them.

    Apr 12th, 2014 - 12:06 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • *~TROLLING_CEASE_FIRE~*

    @30

    If Chile and Uruguay didn't have Argentina between them, then they would be much better hellholes. For 100 years, from 1860 to 1960, Chile and Uruguay were MADE by Argentina being so rich and powerful. Notice how as soon as Argentina's decline began around the 1950s, they got FAR worse: Allende on the one hand, Tupamaros on the others. When Argentina started to sneeze, they went into cardiac arrest with full blown guerillas and communist government.

    Without Argentina's wealth spilling and rubbing over all those years, they would be today no better than a central American nation, which do not have or had any wealthy neighbors.

    Apr 12th, 2014 - 03:18 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Troy Tempest

    Nostril nihilist

    Quite the opposite is true - Argentina has been heading downwards since 1945 and is starting to really pick up speed.

    Meanwhile, Chilé has thrown off the corruption of the Allende Years and is making steady progress, surpassing Argentina in some aspects.

    Uruguay has diversified her economy, Tupas are hopefully dying off, even fake “Supa Tupa Stevie” is nowhere to be seen. Argentina intimidates Uruguay less and less, and they are starting to think for themselves.

    Apr 12th, 2014 - 07:33 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Anglotino

    Well I'm sure Chile and Uruguay are extremely thankful Nostrils.

    They seem to be doing even better now WITHOUT Argentina.

    Apr 12th, 2014 - 11:08 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • yankeeboy

    32. Your revisionist history is not entertaining. Chile has grown tremendously in the last 30+yrs despite having an aggressive, clawing, despicable, neighbor.
    Argentina no longer holds sway in South America. It used to be that the USA had to financially and politically support you so that you didn't drag the rest of the continent down with you. That is no longer the case.
    Now nobody cares whether you live or die.
    You offer nothing to the USA and it is clear that we are not going to bail you out of the next collapse.

    I wonder how many of your generation (and the generations to follow) will be working as nannies and maids for Peruvians, Colombians and Mexicans.
    Internet or food? Internet or food?
    It is clear what you have chosen over the last week.

    Apr 12th, 2014 - 01:36 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • CabezaDura2

    @32

    Everybody knew Allende who had made Chile into a save heaven training camp for Marxist guerillas to be exported to the rest of the continent was about to be kicked out. The Americans, the Brazilians and the Argentines knew.

    In a way you are right in a political sense far more than an economical one. In the early XX Century Uruguay, Paraguay, Bolivia and Chile always answered back to Argentina ”Certainly Sir, how high??

    Apr 12th, 2014 - 03:55 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Pete Bog

    These strikes must be a result of the military exercises in the Falkland Islands-right?

    Apr 12th, 2014 - 09:30 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • *~TROLLING_CEASE_FIRE~*

    @33, 35

    May I order some reading comprehension lessons?

    You are parroting what I said. When Argentina began declining, they were AT first dragged in head first even before us. Sure now they have become more independent, and the rest of Latin America outside Argentina have economically improved. They all began from a very low base of comparison anyway.

    And I have never denied Argentina is finished economically and will never recover. I have NEVER denied that, all I have done is point you are all pretty darn racist against us (racist as in denigrating simply for our nationality), and point out that your countries don't smell like grandma's cherry cakes either.

    Apr 13th, 2014 - 02:22 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Troy Tempest

    It's your government and your Trolls that support them, we don't like.

    When you insult us and blame us for your in incompetence, thefts, and crimes - we'll throw it back in your faces.
    You need to be accountable for your own actions and your own mess.

    Leave us out of it.

    Your “whataboutery” has no place here - we are talking about your crooked politicians, their crimes against your own people, their thefts from the poor and middle class.
    Don't involve us in your crap.

    The Brit posters on here are only reacting to your baseless provocations.

    Every time YOU say you don't need us, we laugh, but that's your choice - go ahead.

    However... YOU, Nostril, keep blathering on about it.

    I can only surmise that you are looking for attention and hoping we will try to court your trade and your friendship.

    Ha !! It doesn't matter to us - bugger off, we won't chase you.

    Have a nice life.

    Apr 13th, 2014 - 04:02 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Conqueror

    @4 Do you? Let me help you. “Politics is the practice and theory of influencing other people on a civic or individual level.” There you go. It's political. But then, nearly everything is. Want to think of anything that ISN'T political? If you try to influence your mother, or father, on what time you have to go to bed, that's political! When you push people to the end, they will act. And they will act to influence.
    @15 Of course he didn't read it all. Look at his latest name. An attempt to “stand out”. Still, at least it gives most of us a useful indicator of which comments to scroll straight past. He's no more than a tantrum.
    @20 Could you quit wasting people's time with your nonsense.
    @26 Do you actually know what the monetary base is? Let's see whether you know anything.
    @33 Do you think it could be anything to do with Peron and his nazi ass-licking? Let's consider argieland's claims. When did argieland decide to claim part of Antarctica? 1942. Right in the middle of WW2. When Hitler told Peron to claim any bits of the British Empire he fancied because Britain would lose the war. Like Britain had the time to contest the claim in the middle of a global war! What a pity we didn't build an airbase on the Falklands back then. Could have bombed argieland in the gap between WW2 and the Korean War.
    @38 I'm afraid you misunderstand. Because people are individuals, we don't hate all Argentines irrespective. For instance, I differentiate between Argentines and argies. Your current “government” is argie. The troops you sent to the Falkland Islands were, and are, argies. You, being a troll, are an argie. There is a means of determining whether an Argentine is an argie. If you examine yourself honestly, you could get the answer. You'll be able to see that an argie is racist, an idiot and deranged. And dishonest. All part of the “character” deficiency.

    Apr 13th, 2014 - 11:00 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Condorito

    @toby
    “For 100 years, from 1860 to 1960, Chile and Uruguay were MADE by Argentina being so rich and powerful”

    After you declared “Chile does not allow immigration” I should no longer be surprised by the depth of your ignorance of the country you claim to live next to, but it seems your knowledge of history is equally appalling.

    Chile's economy has always been principally based on the export of raw materials to the north. The performance of the Argie economy is almost irrelevant to the Chilean economy. Our economy rises and falls with the success of our northern (and now eastern) export markets, not Argentina.

    Apr 14th, 2014 - 12:22 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • *~TROLLING_CEASE_FIRE~*

    @41

    Really, you are one ungrateful Chilean twat.

    Not only was it one of your bigger export markets, you used Argentina as your very convenient exhaust pipe. Nearly 3/4 of a million Chilean over the years leaving Chile to go to Argentina.

    Imagine if they had stayed home how much more of a pressure cooker your country would be.

    Ungrateful, arrogant, revisionist a-hole, that's what you are.

    Apr 14th, 2014 - 12:40 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • yankeeboy

    Are you grateful the USA took 250k Rgs over the years?
    Please please have your gov't send a couple 100 planes for them
    We want them here as I am sure neither does the UK or Spain.

    Ungrateful, arrogant, revisionist a-hole, that's what you are.

    Apr 14th, 2014 - 02:11 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Captain Poppy

    Why would you consider Condorito ungrateful.....did he immigrate to Argentina?

    You are the arrogant a-hole.....ignorant I may add as well. I don;t even think you are from that shit hole Mendoza anymore either.

    Apr 14th, 2014 - 04:02 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • *~TROLLING_CEASE_FIRE~*

    Because his country profited from the social escape valve provided, especially in the 1960s and 1970s, when Chileans desperately crossed the border. Not only in lenifying social pressures there, but in remittances. So yes, he is ungrateful for pretending as if Chile has or HAD absolutely nothing to depend on from Argentina.

    Apr 14th, 2014 - 04:09 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Condorito

    @42 Toby
    Why should I be grateful for your inaccurate information?

    Firstly, so that I may be more grateful, please could you explain to me what the nature of our “ bigger export markets” in Argentina were and their significance on the Chilean economy.

    Secondly, so that you may be more grateful, I will point out to you that immigration is generally good for a country's economy. You have benefited from those hard working Chileans working in Argentina over the years. Even in the early days, those who settled your home town of Mendoza where from Chile.

    But it is more than mere grapes, in recent times we have given you so much more, like the means to fly on a decent airline, the possibility to shop in modern supermarkets and department stores, we have even given you a luxurious hotel and casino in your home town.

    Apr 14th, 2014 - 04:35 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • *~TROLLING_CEASE_FIRE~*

    The means to fly a decent airline?

    There used to be a decent airline in the country until about the mid-1980s. None since then.

    Shop in modern supermarkets? Funny, in Mendoza being the home of Vea we had them for something like 45 years now.

    Really, don't get desperate like that to find arguments.

    Where did I suggest the Chileans were BAD? I just said it happened and you DENIED it. Furthermore, you know as well as I do that “some” of them were not mere migrants, they were ideological fighters, that escaped Chile, especially after 1973. Imagine if they had stayed... do you really think it would have been less or MORE violent in the period with all those ideologues trapped in Pinocheland, or an extra half million poor people to deal with?

    Apr 14th, 2014 - 04:40 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Condorito

    @toby
    “There used to be a decent airline in the country until about the mid-1980s. None since then.”

    You've never been on a plane, have you?

    “Really, don't get desperate like that to find arguments.”

    I'm giving you the flip side of your absurd assertions above.

    Now, are you going to tell be about those “ bigger export markets” in Argentina?

    Apr 14th, 2014 - 04:46 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • *~TROLLING_CEASE_FIRE~*

    I have to ride an airplane to read upon service?

    LAN is an OK airline. Nothing more. At least if you want to compare it with the worldwide lot of airlines. If you want to reduce your “world view” to Latin America, then sure it's a great airline. Does that say much?

    Bigger export markets? Before your free trade spree, it was one of your main export markets. Or what?

    No you are not due to your increased export volume to other places, and due to the fact that Chile does not offer anything to Argentina, since everything you make we make. So it's expected we won't be importing your fruit, wine, and fish, since we have it ourselves. And obviously you have no manufactured goods. So what would we import from you...

    Apr 14th, 2014 - 04:54 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • yankeeboy

    No he's never been on a plane. He took a freaking BUS 13 hrs to get to the hovel on the shore for his vacation!
    Living through a computer screen
    and now its a choice between bread and screen
    How pathetic

    Apr 14th, 2014 - 05:11 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • *~TROLLING_CEASE_FIRE~*

    @50

    So to you poor people are pathetic?

    You are a racist.

    Apr 14th, 2014 - 05:13 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Condorito

    toby
    Now you are contradicting yourself.
    Up @32 you are claiming (wrongly) that Chile's economic fortunes are linked to Argentina's. You say that when you were rich, we were ok, and when you declined, we declined too.

    I have pointed out to you that that is completely incorrect. @41 I explain to you that our economy historically depends on export to northern markets NOT Argentina. You claim that Argentina is a “bigger export markets”.

    Now @49 you parrot what I have just explained to you, that Argentina is not an important market for Chile and never was.

    Re. Lan: I was not taking a global perspective. I specifically referred to Argentina. In Lan you have a decent airline.

    Re. left-wing guerrillas in the 70s: if they had stayed, they would have met the same fate as the rest.

    Re. racism: only a racist would link poverty to race that way.

    Apr 14th, 2014 - 05:16 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • *~TROLLING_CEASE_FIRE~*

    LAN is not a decent airline in Argentina. Obviously you have no clue what AR was like before the 1990s. LAN is not even a poor man's shadow of it.

    No one in their right mind in Argentina says LAN is good service for the price.

    Apr 14th, 2014 - 05:21 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • yankeeboy

    No idiot, I don't care if you are poor I am making fun of the ridiculous statements you make about other places, other things that you've only experienced through a computer screen!
    You know nothing about life. You can't until you experience it for yourself first hand and in person and the problem is your are too backward to even know the difference.
    Your poor education is an embarrassment.

    Apr 14th, 2014 - 05:29 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • *~TROLLING_CEASE_FIRE~*

    So you don't care about the poor.

    Apr 14th, 2014 - 05:32 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • yankeeboy

    That is a very leading question. The answer is, it depends on their circumstances. I give to lots of charities but they are not for handouts. I absolutely do not believe in handouts.
    I think that is one of the main reason your society has failed and will only get poorer and dumber as time goes on.

    Apr 14th, 2014 - 05:43 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • *~TROLLING_CEASE_FIRE~*

    Fair enough. Refreshing to see you answer a question directly. Respect.

    Apr 14th, 2014 - 05:46 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Condorito

    @toby
    After making one failed argument about Chile's economic dependence on Argentina, you are now struggling with the simple truth that in “recent times” Chilean investment has given you a “decent airline”

    When you say things like “No one in their right mind in Argentina says LAN is good service for the price.” I really doubt you live in Argentina.

    Lan and AR fares are very similar. Lan charge slightly more because they can, they have the demand. They have the demand because your compatriots think the opposite of what you have just claimed.

    Apr 14th, 2014 - 06:10 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • yankeeboy

    They can charge higher prices because their planes are well maintained.
    I wouldn't fly Aerolineas even if they were free.

    Apr 14th, 2014 - 06:53 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Condorito

    @59 yankeeboy
    ...and their fleet is relatively new... and they are good on punctuality... and the service is (comparatively) good. The inevitable reality is that Argentines prefer to fly Lan. I really wonder about where Toby lives - even a hermit would struggle to be so disconnected from reality.

    @toby
    “Obviously you have no clue what AR was like before the 1990s”.

    Yes I do. It was, like Lan and Ladeco in Chile, a state owned enterprise with no need to turn a profit; a subsidised service flying routes with half empty planes at the tax payer's expense.

    Lan and AR really started to diverge when they were privatised in 89/90. Lan went on to become an efficient, modern airline and one of the 10 largest in the world, operating in more that 20 countries, while AR was bankrupted, re-nationalised, loses $millions per day, and can't even provide a decent service in a country in which anti-competitive practices are deployed against its only competition.

    Apr 14th, 2014 - 07:31 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • *~TROLLING_CEASE_FIRE~*

    Chilean investment has not given Argentina any good airline. Believe what you want, the facts state otherwise.

    Argentines have no choice, much different than choosing. If something like Air Berlin came to Argentina it would send everyone else to the grave.

    Apr 15th, 2014 - 02:36 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Troy Tempest

    Nostrils

    The truth is hard to take.
    Despite your attempts to denigrate the Chileans, and find them wanting and inferior compared to Argentina, you have been shown up.

    Forget Air Berlin, they're not in Argentina.
    Aerolineas Argentinas is a crap airline in comparison to LAN Chile.

    Sorry you can't accept that.

    BTW,
    it's bad enough that AR has bad service and old equipment, their connection to La Campora reeks of corruption.

    Apr 15th, 2014 - 04:28 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • *~TROLLING_CEASE_FIRE~*

    Funny how my extremely mild words arouse the designation “denigrating” in your view, Troy. Yet Wolverine, Conqueror, and many others here are just “misinterpreted” (paraphrasing you).

    Go read my “denigrations” of Chileans, then go read Wolverine in the other thread, and then go see a doctor if you can't tell a slight difference in aggressiveness and foulness.

    Apr 15th, 2014 - 06:09 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • yankeeboy

    After blowing through enough U$ to buy American Airlines, Aerolineas has the oldest long haul planes of any fleet in the world, and the short/medium haul planes they bought from Embraer are being used for long haul, using them up quicker than they can stand.
    It's a a cash cow for the Ks.

    Apr 15th, 2014 - 09:38 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Condorito

    @61 toby
    “Believe what you want, the facts state otherwise.”

    All that time and effort studying archaic, obsolete vocabulary, yet you struggle with simple, frequent use words like “facts”.

    The facts are that your compatriots provide 10% of Lan's global profit because they choose to pay for Lan despite there being a government subsidized option.

    Once you have digested that fact, you can practice some more by going back to your statement @32 and trying to spot the inaccuracies.

    Apr 15th, 2014 - 11:43 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • yankeeboy

    65. This is why I keep saying his education is an embarrassment. All he knows is how to string together some words and not critically think.

    I think he's like most of his leaders though, they think they are kinda smart there but they are hopelessly stupid in the civilized world.

    My conclusion is that every generation the smart and ambitious people leave so all they have left are the stupid and lazy people creating the next generation. So every is generation getting dumber and lazier.
    Idiocracy

    Apr 15th, 2014 - 12:43 pm - Link - Report abuse 0

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