MercoPress. South Atlantic News Agency
Falklands' war: John Paul II feared Argentine defeat could lead to a left-wing pro-Soviet regime
The Daily Express Sunday's edition reveals in an exclusive piece by Marco Giannangeli, based on uncovered documents that Pope John Paul II tried to convince Margaret Thatcher to abandon the Falkland Islands at the height of the 1982 war with Argentina, fearing a collapse of the military regime could lead to a left-sing government, under influence of the Soviet Union. Read full article
Comments
Disclaimer & comment rulesAnd he will be s Saint soon! Rubbish!
Apr 15th, 2014 - 07:31 am - Link - Report abuse 0To quote Father Ted Crilley “saint? my arse”.
Apr 15th, 2014 - 08:15 am - Link - Report abuse 0How can they make this man a Saint?
Apr 15th, 2014 - 08:34 am - Link - Report abuse 0What did he actually ever do?
Well I can tell you one thing he did, he looked the other way whilst the Priests under his 'command' physically and sexually abused children.
As for the Falklands, he advocated that Britain leave the Falkland Islanders to the 'mercy' of a brutal murderous dictatorship which had already murdered thousands of their own people, to prevent what? A theorhetical new government?
I think even if a soviet type government had got into power in Argentina, it couldn't have been worse that the fascist one.
So what we have is the 'former' Pope siding with fascism.
Yes what a real Saint he is.
Another dissenter along with Reagan to add to the list. The more the stories come out, the more I admire her, she stuck to her principles and saw them through despite what seems to have been huge pressure to let the islands go from 'so called' friends at the time. Mind you, the catholic church was well used to expecting people to bend over and face the other way, clearly Maggie had other ideas.
Apr 15th, 2014 - 08:40 am - Link - Report abuse 0It may have been a short war and not the bloodiest in history, but I think the British people learnt more from the Falklands war than they did most others. We now know only to well that certain friends, no matter how 'special', will only be fair weather when the chips are down.
@4 Britworker
Apr 15th, 2014 - 09:11 am - Link - Report abuse 0Indeed. There is a lot to admire about Margaret Thatcher, a real leader not willing to sacrifice her principles and beliefs for convenience sake.
Regarding the US, Winston Churchill once very famously said: “You can always count of the Americans to do the right thing...after they've tried everything else.”
Back in the cold war days the US were completely paranoid regarding the Soviet Union, hence why they funded, supported and turned a blind eye to the 'excesses' of fascist governments.
But the cold war is over. Perhaps are Argentine friends should remember that. The US will always do what is right for them, and when the oil starts flowing in the South Atlantic, drilled by US oil companies, you can bet supporting the Falkland Islanders will suddenly become right for them.
The great irony is that Galtieri and his henchmen saved Thatcher's political skin - and thus (temporarily, sadly) gave Britain a respite from more daft socialist “experiments” - from what would have been almost certain defeat in her first re-election attempt. And the invasion also assured the laying of the economic foundations for a strong Falklands which one day will be free of Argie threats and interference.
Apr 15th, 2014 - 10:42 am - Link - Report abuse 0The USA had its own 'backyard' agenda for South America, and would have created circumstances to avoid a change to Russian-communism in Argentina. They had had much practice at doing this around the Continent by 1982.
Apr 15th, 2014 - 11:14 am - Link - Report abuse 0And it's nice to be reminded of the Churchillian quote “You can always count of the Americans to do the right thing...after they've tried everything else.” (LEPRecon)
Two World Wars showed just how right he was.
There can be no compromise between right and wrong.
Apr 15th, 2014 - 11:35 am - Link - Report abuse 0Elementary, my dear Watson.
Philippe
The Blessed Margaret was of course too much of a lady to have this despicable RCC Pope kicked out of Britain on his political arse, which is what he deserved. What he REALLY deserved would have me banned from MP if I wrote it.
Apr 15th, 2014 - 11:46 am - Link - Report abuse 0And as for making him a saint, FFS!
The Americans have of course never “lost a war” apart from Vietnam and failed at a few others rather closer to the present timeline. But it is easy to belittle them and their redneck ways and bullying tactics to their friends, they are a young nation and haven’t got to diplomatic maturity yet, but let us all hope it won’t be too long now.
#3 LEPRecon
Apr 15th, 2014 - 11:47 am - Link - Report abuse 0Well said!
The arguments put by the Pope were self-serving and hypocritical. The Vatican was prepared to throw the Falkland Islanders to the Argentine wolves on the pretext that the Argentine MIGHT turn communist. Given the circumstances and timing of the request to abandon the Falkland Islands, Thatcher had every right to feel outraged by what amounted to gratuitous meddling in the UKs affairs. But the Holy See has never been Britain’s friend; they are probably still getting over King Henry VIII. No wonder Mrs Thatcher gave the Pope short shrift
”Thatcher held her ground, saying Argentina's forces should “go home and leave the Queen’s people and Queen’s territory”. Now there was one classy lady!
Why shouldn't John Paul II become a saint?
Apr 15th, 2014 - 11:59 am - Link - Report abuse 0When one looks at the long list of treacherous and murderous filth who have made it as saints, he ain't that bad.
Inquisitions, burning alive, religious wars against christians and others, genocides, prohibiting contraception, ...
The durrty duurrrty bastard.!
Apr 15th, 2014 - 12:01 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Popery has been a meddling curse for centuries.
Glad she told him to sling his hook.
RE Pope John Paul II
Apr 15th, 2014 - 01:04 pm - Link - Report abuse 0http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marcial_Maciel
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marcial_Maciel
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marcial_Maciel
I dont see what the news is here really... Galtieri had threatened the CIA top dog at the time Vernon Walters in his office that if the US allied with the UK Argentina would “jump the fence” (i.e side with the USSR).
Apr 15th, 2014 - 02:25 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The Argentine component in Nicaragua lasted even after the war so calculations were proven misleading.
Nice of the pope to back his own priest who had their eyes gouged out by the roadside and the nuns who were slung out into the River Plate-not much of a strategist was he?
Apr 15th, 2014 - 02:52 pm - Link - Report abuse 0One of the effects of the British victory in the Falklands (remember the USA and The USSR said victory was impossible), was to hasten the end of the Cold War, not to increase the Soviet influence in South America.
It's a shame Wojtyla's 'tenure' will mostly be remembered for his mistakes and for the Vatican's clumsy, and frequently callous, if not criminal handling of child sexual abuse within it's ranks.
Apr 15th, 2014 - 04:51 pm - Link - Report abuse 0It's easy to forget the Jews he rescued from the Nazi's, the considerable moral and spiritual support he provided to Solidarity in Poland and throughout the former Warsaw Pact countries behind the Iron Curtain. He was far more influential in this respect than he his generally given credit for. Certainly the Soviet's believed so, which is likely the reason they tried to assassinate him.
He was instrumental in persuading Pinochet to make democracy in Chile possible and was lauded by both Mandela and Desmond Tutu for his committed opposition to apartheid.
In the context of his experiences his fears for might happen to Argentina are understandable. His approach to Thatcher was naive and misguided though, demonstrating a marked lack of understanding of the situation.
He was also involved with the canonisation of Josemaría Escrivá de Balaguer, the founder of Opus Dei, a very unpopular and controversial event in the history of the Catholic Church.
Apr 15th, 2014 - 05:47 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@ 16 - “He was instrumental in persuading Pinochet to make democracy in Chile possible and was lauded by both Mandela and Desmond Tutu for his committed opposition to apartheid.”
Apr 15th, 2014 - 06:10 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Pinochet may have been a dictator, but he was the best medicine Chile could ever have had, and they badly needed medicine at the time. Chile was a very poor relation to Argentina back in 1973 but since Pinochet stopped the rot they haven't looked back. As for your leftist implication that “apartheid” was a “crime against humanity” and even comparable with the holocaust (as “saint” Mandela himself has declared) and that both he and (the semi-deranged) Tutu were some kind of virtuous saints.....then you are a brain-washed naive fool, or perhaps I should say “tool” (of cultural Marxism).
So he was an even bigger bastard than I thought.....and you are trying to tell us that he was a saint?
Well he was half right, it did topple the Junta...
Apr 15th, 2014 - 06:28 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@18 ernest shackleton
Apr 15th, 2014 - 06:32 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Your description of Archbishop Desmond Tutu as being semi-deranged is crass nonsense. On what do you base this?
And, of course, “apartheid” WAS a crime against humanity - and I am no leftist, far from it!
Geoff great comment:
Apr 15th, 2014 - 10:24 pm - Link - Report abuse 0”You can always count of the Americans to do the right thing...after they've tried everything else.”
HOWEVER, I suggest you and the other critical posters understand that taking an antagonistic position against John Paul II is very unwise.
Also, Gordo1:
What about India and their caste system... Isn't that just as bad as what the South Africans did?
Finally, God bless Margaret for saving the UK's legacy and making a monkey out of the Argentine dictatorship.
Comment removed by the editor.
Apr 15th, 2014 - 10:41 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I hated apartheid and protested against, and helped finance the fight,against this great evil back in the day.
Apr 15th, 2014 - 10:55 pm - Link - Report abuse 0However I still believe the Roman Catholic Church is a sick and perverse influence in the world.
22 ernest shackleton
Apr 16th, 2014 - 01:17 am - Link - Report abuse 0Are you for real?
Trying to resist feeding the troll, but it's so hard sometimes.
Pope-corn. Don't buy it kids!
Apr 16th, 2014 - 01:59 am - Link - Report abuse 0Just say No!
@18 Ernie
Apr 16th, 2014 - 05:08 am - Link - Report abuse 0Seriously? I didn't “compare” the Holocaust with Apartheid - you did. I simply noted John Paul II's well-documented opposition to both. The implications drawn are yours.
Regarding Pinochet - do you really believe that murder, torture and self-enrichment were the ONLY solutions to Allende's socialist meltdown. Chile's current stability has as much to do with the sanity ( and grace ) of it's post Pinochet leaders than Pinochet's embrace of those very smart Friedman influenced economists IMO.
Your statements defending Apartheid are ridiculous and indefensible. Your uber-menschen highIQ Afrikaners were such genius's they couldn't even tell, in many cases, who was actually white and who wasn't. Many white people were designated 'coloured' for that very reason. Nor was Apartheid confined to just black africans. I don't have enough space, or patience, to educate you on the origins and excesses of apartheid - I suggest you do some research if you choose to respond.
Finally, I strongly urge you to change your ID. You have more in common with Benny Hill's Ernie, 'who drove the fastest milk-cart in the west” than your courageous namesake.
@22 ernestshackleton
Apr 16th, 2014 - 05:40 am - Link - Report abuse 0I have reported your posting as abusive viz.“Racist rambling nonsense which does not have a place in this conversation!”
The pope started it!
Apr 16th, 2014 - 09:20 am - Link - Report abuse 0Well here's a musical riposte to the Pope from Swedish Metal band Sabaton, Back in Control (slightly odd lyrics): I almost want to buy a Rangers shirt now.
Apr 16th, 2014 - 10:40 am - Link - Report abuse 0https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MVd-DGMuHfM
@ 27 Gordo1
Apr 16th, 2014 - 12:27 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Then “thank the lord” that the moderator has more sense than you.
Do you really believe ducking the issue of apartheid like this is going to work; perhaps praying to god is also in your defence to such things. Read 26 Heisenbergcontext and learn how to do it without the pomposity you revel in.
@ 30 ChrisR
Apr 16th, 2014 - 01:17 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Who is ducking the abhorrent issue of apartheid? Not me, you arrogant arsehole!
I found the nasty racist rant of ernestshackleton to be offensive and to have nothing to do with the debate on John Paul II. Nor, indeed, does it have anything with the news concerning the Falkland Islands.
@ 31 Fatty1
Apr 16th, 2014 - 03:44 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Have you ever been involved with Africa? No, is what I suspect whereas I have, in Nigeria.
There are some, not many at all, intelligent blacks in the oil business from Africa but mostly they come from America.
The other blacks around oil installations become labourers if they are lucky. Those that are left tend to be beggars or worse. Apart from poorly paid rural jobs there are no other opportunities other than the police and the army, but you need to at least have a working brain and be able to read and write.
Can you not see for yourself that South Africa is going back to the future of tribal warfare with the white a common target?
And, never forget this is a MP site and the topics tend to vary at times but are usually interesting, apart from uptight ones by “believers”.
How do you know I have never been involved with Africa? That must be another example of your arrogance! You are able to travel through cyberspace and make those assumptions, are you?
Apr 16th, 2014 - 03:49 pm - Link - Report abuse 0And, by the way, why do also assume that, in my case, Gordo1 equates to Fatty1? What a prat!
It seems that God was on the winning side.
Apr 16th, 2014 - 04:41 pm - Link - Report abuse 0There's some pretty disgusting racism around here...
Apr 16th, 2014 - 04:48 pm - Link - Report abuse 022
Apr 16th, 2014 - 06:29 pm - Link - Report abuse 0What have you got against people with a low IQ....?
It doesn't appear to stop Troy Tempest from regularly having his say.....
...keep that to yourself.....he doesn't realise he's stupid.....;-)
....and..I also know quite a lot of white, dumb Yanks....
...never confuse a lack of education and opportunity with intelligence quotient....
@ 33 Fatty1
Apr 16th, 2014 - 06:30 pm - Link - Report abuse 0So, do tell, where were YOU involved in Africa?
Gordo is the Spanish for fat / fatty, etc, etc ad infinitum.
What a disgusting example of a “believer”!
(You started with the insults in @ 31: don’t like it when you get even a mild version of what you said about me, eh Fatty)?
@27 Gordo1 - “I have reported your posting as abusive viz.“Racist rambling nonsense which does not have a place in this conversation!””
Apr 16th, 2014 - 08:25 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I responded to your demand that I explain my opinion of Tutu didn't I? Pity that you don't care for the truth. Actually, by calling Tutu “semi-demented” I was being kind, since anyone who has watched his maniacal expression and childish antics on TV would know he is totally demented. Funny how some people give blacks a free pass.
Anyway, as I expected you are a typical leftist prat who cannot bear to hear the truth and having realised he is way out of his depth and cannot put together a rational argument he reverts to form - name calling and predictable ad hominems (you are a “racist”- duh..!) and goes crying to “teacher” hoping to have me shut up. Pathetic leftist wanker that you are.
@38
Apr 16th, 2014 - 10:23 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Notice that Mandela's people forbade that idiot to attend his funeral.
Didn't get an invite.
He said some bad things about Mandela when he was still alive.
Mandela recognised Tutu for what he was, a fkucking devious cnut.
Not even clever with it.
@38
Apr 17th, 2014 - 04:04 am - Link - Report abuse 0So far you've claimed that I compared the Holocaust with Apartheid. I didn't.
That I claimed Apartheid was a 'crime against humanity'. Which I didn't, even though it demonstrably was.
That I was saying that Nelson Mandela, Desmond Tutu and Pope John Paul II are all saints. I didn't.
You further claim that both Gordo and yours truly are varieties of lefty's without presenting any evidence of such.
You are either a liar or illiterate. Or both. So why should anyone believe anything you write?
...and you really should consider changing that ID. Based on the evidence above, you are unworthy.
I don't like to crow but……………..!
Apr 17th, 2014 - 06:01 am - Link - Report abuse 0@41
Apr 17th, 2014 - 08:19 am - Link - Report abuse 0Marcus likes to call you a 'bankster', Ernie likes to call you “a leftist wanker”.
You must be doing something right.
“...never confuse a lack of education and opportunity with intelligence quotient....”
Apr 17th, 2014 - 08:39 am - Link - Report abuse 0Quoted for truth. Ernest you are either a racist or you don't know the difference between intelligence and education.
@ 26+40 by H-man.
Apr 17th, 2014 - 10:30 am - Link - Report abuse 0I was going to flush your #26 yesterday but the sanitary system in use here only allows me to deal with one turd at a time. But you obviously felt miffed that I chose to flush G-man's bigger turd first, so you added more poo (#40) to your bowl.
“So far you've claimed that I compared the Holocaust with Apartheid. I didn't.”
Wrong - I used the expression “your leftist implication that....” in other words I said that you “implied” as much., which you did. Turd #1 flushed..!
“That I claimed Apartheid was a 'crime against humanity'. Which I didn't, even though it demonstrably was.”
So if consider apartheid was “a crime against humanity” - then with what phrase would you describe the holocaust? “A big bad horrible crime against humanity”? Therefore my suspicions are confirmed. Turd #2 flushed..!!
“That I was saying that Nelson Mandela, Desmond Tutu and Pope John Paul II are all saints. I didn't.”
Again, you implied it but putting all 3 leftists on a sanctimonious pedestal - ”(Pope John Paul II) was lauded by both Mandela and Desmond Tutu for his committed opposition to apartheid.“
Since the late pope, who is about to be ”sainted“, was ”lauded” by Mandela and Tutu (and NOT the other way around) then it is patently clear that, in the minds of the legions of uninformed idiots who worship the fraudulent Mandela as a veritable “holy man” in all but name, that the latter 2 are regarded (if not as superior beings to the Pope) then certainly his equal. A “lauding” of a higher-ranked individual by a lower person might be considered “toadying” - it would certainly not be worthy of recording for posterity.
Turd #3 flushed.!!!
“You further claim that both Gordo and yours truly are varieties of lefty's without presenting any evidence of such.”
I'm waiting for evidence form you and your brother turd that apartheid was a “crime against humanity”. You are just repeating a big lie and mantra of the left.
@44 Ernie
Apr 17th, 2014 - 01:12 pm - Link - Report abuse 0My words: “He was instrumental in persuading Pinochet to make democracy possible and was lauded by both Mandela and Desmond Tutu for his committed opposition to Apartheid”. There is no reference to the Holocaust in that para. I didn't even mention the Holocaust in the para previous to that one. I simply noted that Wojtyla, as he was then, had rescued Jews . This is true. My only INTENT was to demonstrate that John Paul II had, in fact, done some good during his long life. The implications drawn thereafter are exclusively yours as is your assumption that criticism of Apartheid is exclusively a left-wing preserve.
You deliberately mis-characterised something I'd written to mean something I never intended as the basis of your criticism of me. I consider that lying.
It's perfectly possible to acknowledge both Apartheid and the Holocaust as crimes against humanity without detailing the myriad distinctions between these two great crimes. Grownups understand these distinctions...
Which “3 leftists”? Are you actually suggesting JPII, conservative Catholic, defyer of the U.S.S.R., disapproving of female ordination, the face of pro-life was a leftist???!!!
The reason I noted both Tutu and Mandela's acknowledgement of JPII was simply their credibility as the most prominent and visible black South African opposers of the Apartheid regime. I never made any claims about their impending sainthood. A subject I am ill-qualified to pontificate ( pun intended ) on. Once again the implications drawn are yours alone, and once again exploited by you in service of your dishonesty. Otherwise known as lying...
Again I don't have the space necessary to educate you as to PRECISELY how evil Apartheid was, but for your homework I suggest you research the Pass Laws. I suggest you investigate the Sharpsville Massacre. I urge you to discover how many people were arbitrarily imprisoned, tortured and murdered.
Here that sound? That's your milkcart being derailed.
@ 45 H-man,
Apr 17th, 2014 - 10:23 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“I don't have the space necessary to educate you as to PRECISELY how evil Apartheid was, but for your homework I suggest you research the Pass Laws. I suggest you investigate the Sharpsville Massacre. I urge you to discover how many people were arbitrarily imprisoned, tortured and murdered.”
1000 characters doesn't afford me the space to educate - or should I say “de-program” - you into how absurdly trivial those were in the greater scheme of things. It can only be ignorance or an inability to put such matters into proper historical perspective which impels you to mention events which, in your befuddled brain, made apartheid more EVIL than (in chronological order of 20th century truly evil events) - the Armenian genocide (1.5 million deaths, more than 50% of the then Armenian population), Stalin's Ukrainian forced collectivisation (8 million starved to death), Hitler's “final solution” (6 million), Mao's destruction of the landholding class (30 million cited), various other Maoist directives, e.g. the “Great Leap Forwards”, the Cultural Revolution”, etc (10-30 million), Pol Pot's Cambodia (2 million or at least 25% of the pop'n), North Korea (ongoing genocide since 1948, assuming 100,000 state sanctioned deaths a year, a very conservative estimation, this would by now total at least 6 million deaths).
But of course, none of these compare in EVIL to....
1) Pass Laws - so black dudes had to carry ID papers when in white areas? My god, how EVIL of whitey to ask to see ID..!
2) Sharpeville “Massacre” - unfortunate but fully justified given the horrific lead-up events (which you obviously don't know or care to know about) which, even though it occurred 54 years ago, every leftist has imprinted on his silly brain because - and ONLY because - it was EVIL whites killing blacks for a change.
3) people “arbitrarily imprisoned, tortured and murdered”.
FACT - Mandelatopia in 1 year has more deaths in police “custody” than the total during 1948-94
@46
Apr 18th, 2014 - 09:03 am - Link - Report abuse 0So: having established, in forensic detail, your willingness to bend the truth ( i.e. lie ) to suit your agenda your response is to...do it again.
Where did I state that Apartheid was more evil than the atrocities you listed? Answer: I didn't. You made it up. Again.
The term 'crimes against humanity' - which YOU introduced into this debate - is an imprecise one that can be interpreted in many ways. The atrocities you listed all, in my system of values, comfortably fit into that category.
The South African Truth and Reconciliation established, conclusively, that torture was used systematically by the Security Branch. As well as the Reaction Unit, the Municipal Police, the CID and the Military Intelligence Unit of the SADF. After S.A. became a Republic ( which it's black citizens couldn't vote on ) the incidence of detention without trial and without any right of appeal or legal representation increased dramatically. As did the torture. If you have the stomach for it I suggest you read some of the testimony of both the perpretrators and the victims. These crimes alone fit my definition of crimes against humanity.
That well known lefty Ronald Reagan wrote in his diary that he “detested” Apartheid. One of his first foreign affairs initiative was to send a close aid, William Clark to South Africa. Last year four Reagan biographers wrote, in the Washington Post, that “an unsmiling Clark told P.M. P.W.Botha that the new President and administration abhorred Apartheid” and walked out on him. Reagan then appointed an African-American as Ambassador ( Edward Perkins ). When he met Botha for the first time the P.M. shook in anger.
The former conservative Prime Minister of my own country, Malcolm Fraser, called Oliver Tambo “my good friend”, when the latter stayed with the former in his Australian home.
Do you still maintain opposition to Apartheid is the sole preserve of 'lefty's'?
You are correct on the deaths in custody issue.
More to follow...
@ 47
Apr 18th, 2014 - 09:36 am - Link - Report abuse 0I was going to keep away in disgust at some of the “fiction” above but “BRAVO”, Heisenbergcontext!
WAY off topic, guys; but interesting, for all that.
Apr 18th, 2014 - 09:44 am - Link - Report abuse 0@48 Gordo
Apr 18th, 2014 - 11:51 am - Link - Report abuse 0Thanks, I appreciate that.
@49 Geoff
True. Hopefully nearly done. I'm getting a headache lol.
@46 Ernie
To continue...
It's difficult to obtain reliable statistics about deaths in custody from the early sixties Apartheid regime but I accept your comparison. Further analysis however will reveal that post-apartheid deaths are the result of incompetence and negligence, the hallmarks of an immature and, now, corrupt administration.
In the previous administration it was an example of State policy. They didn't need to kill many people to maintain control, they could simply detain anyone, by law, for as long as they wished.
Pass Laws: The colloquial term for these was dompass ( dumb pass in Afrikaans ). You scornfully dismiss the requirements of these laws without understanding the implications of a law that required black people to do something white people were spared. The S.A. police had vans circulating specifically to check these ID's. All designed to both control black people and remind them of their 'inferiority' and powerlessness. And that were ALWAYS under surveillance.
Sharpsville: “Unfortunate”. Your contemptuous description of the murder of 69 people is completely within character. I can understand why the cops might've been nervous in the light of related circumstances and the size and fury of the crowd. But that death toll included 10 children. And why were so many shot in the back??? In the act of FLEEING.
You made a reference in your now-deleted post to “low-IQ” Africans. Does that designation also apply to the Chinese, Indonesians and Indians who were also discriminated against?
Finally, and in the interests of full-disclosure, I am the off-spring of a mixed-race marriage. I once flew to Jo-Burg from Perth in Dec '78 in the company of my younger siblings when I was 14. I had forgotten the SAA cabin crew's disdain until now.
You could say this subject is kind of personal for me.
@50 H-man
Apr 18th, 2014 - 12:35 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“.....post-apartheid deaths are the result of incompetence and negligence, the hallmarks of an immature and, now, corrupt administration.”
And also sheer brutality like, for trivial motoring offences, deliberately throwing white men into cells full of violent black criminals.
“The S.A. police had vans circulating specifically to check these ID's.”
True, but you omit to say this was only in designated white residential areas. In their own townships and especially in the homelands, they could do pretty as they pleased. Which is why there was so much crime there. (cue a self-righteous sob story from G-man about how blacks were only given control of 13% of SA, followed by the usual pompously patronising demand that I “research” something that I already know so much more about than you do.
“Sharpsville: “Unfortunate”. Your contemptuous description of the murder of 69 people is completely within character. ”
Why do people like you only know of this incident whilst being totally ignorant about scores (perhaps hundreds) of far worse incidents in other parts of Africa? Of course it is a rhetorical question - you only remember this one because it was given 1000x the publicity of all the others and is constantly dragged-up and repeated to wide-eyed impressionable naivetes such as yourself and brother turd with the ultimate sinister intention of demonising the white minority in SA - and by extension all white people everywhere - with the aim of setting them up for genocide, after which the sanctimonious likes of you will say “tut, tut, terrible, but they had it coming to them”..!
“You made a reference in your now-deleted post to “low-IQ” Africans. Does that designation also apply to the Chinese, Indonesians and Indians who were also discriminated against?”
Black African IQ 67 - Chinese (105) Indonesians and Indians (85-90) according to Prof Lynn and others.
“I am the off-spring of a mixed-race marriage. ”
I thought so.
@51
Apr 18th, 2014 - 03:34 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Still leading with your jaw I see. Not recommended, especially when it appears to be constructed with glass.
The last individual I encountered who wore their racism with such pride was a neo-nazi jailbird who had a swastika tattooed on his forehead.
Every argument you've made has been comprehensively debunked. You don't seem to know how to be honest, how to think critically or how to take responsibility for your mistakes.
You also appear to have an obsession with fecal matter.
You state: “...with the ultimate sinister intention of demonising the white minority in SA...with the aim of setting them up for genocide...”
My late mother's eldest sister, who is of English & Welsh ancestry, and her three children, whose father was Norwegian, live in South Africa to this day. I like them very much and have no desire whatsoever for them to be the victim of genocide.
I have no desire to add further to your delusions except for...
Your last sentence is intriguing. If by that statement you mean that as you were reading my posts a light bulb went off in your head and you thought “By gum I believe this H-Man wallah is on of them mixed-race whatsis”, well I'll just have to call you a liar. Again.
If it means something else...please share with the group. I'm all ears. Don't be coy now.
@52 - H-man wallah,
Apr 18th, 2014 - 10:07 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“Every argument you've made has been comprehensively debunked.”
I just love it when lefties and their fellow-travellers think that, the mere declaration of their pious opinions makes it the gospel truth in their own minds. Sorry to bang on about this but a perfect example is the dubious claim that apartheid was declared by the UN as a “Crime against Humanity”. The truth is that the usual suspects - the anti-white turd-world majority at the Useless Nations (UN) backed by the Soviet Union, China, Cuba, Africa, the Muslim world, et al (all shining beacons of freedom - NOT) demanded that it be so declared. For many years it was vehemently opposed by the tiny minority of responsible nations (the ones that actually pay the UN bills) of that soap-box for turd-world tyrants like Mugarbage - for the very sound reason that it made a mockery of the entire notion of what a “crime against humanity” should be - er, like genocide, maybe? I am not sure when or if but I suspect they may have finally caved-in and lifted the veto when they were accused of “racism” for the umpteenth time. Always works a treat that wonder word, doesn't it? Sigh....
“I like them very much and have no desire whatsoever for them to be the victim of genocide.”
So, as long as your relatives are spared from the consequences of the cANCer's “completion of the revolution”(sic), you couldn't care less about the rest could you?
Just as you found my last statement to be intriguing, I found your last statement “this subject is kind of personal for me” to be very revealing of your true motives. You have a racial axe to grind so you cannot possibly be as impartial as you like to think you are. Without you realising it you have actually admitted you are a “racist”, so join the club and relax in the knowledge that all truly honest people are self-admitted racists.
The only film documentary that told the truth about Africa was “Africa Addio”.
Yawn...
Apr 19th, 2014 - 02:56 am - Link - Report abuse 0I wonder how well Ernest Shackleton knows these people?
Apr 19th, 2014 - 06:20 am - Link - Report abuse 0ww.ctvnews.ca/world/south-african-white-extremists-sentenced-after-decade-long-trial-1.1518831
“Decade-long trial” (translation: locked up without trial for 10 years). Where were the human-rights crowd? Who, outside of SA, even heard about it? I don't know exactly what their offence was - not many people do, it was very hushed-up by the media, but certainly no worse than Mandela's.
Apr 19th, 2014 - 07:15 am - Link - Report abuse 01963 - Black extremist Nelson Mandela sentenced for terrorism offences. Released 27 years later smelling of roses compared to wife Winnie who spent hubbies time in jail burning opponents or perceived “collaborators” alive. He would have joined in enthusiastically if he could have.
10 years in a black jail is a death sentence for a white man, one of them already “died in custody”. Where are the mindlessly self-righteous protestors in Sweden, Australia and NZ?
Wow it's like Conquer & “think” had a Rhodesian love child! :) and I thought the Argentinian commenter's like Dany had a problem......
Apr 19th, 2014 - 03:11 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@57 It's Poe-etry in action, as in Poe's Law.
Apr 19th, 2014 - 05:13 pm - Link - Report abuse 0F*ck the Pope.
Apr 19th, 2014 - 05:59 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Just a quick reminder!
“Saving sinners, just beginners, he'll help to get you there.”
Apr 19th, 2014 - 07:46 pm - Link - Report abuse 0( The Stranglers, 1980, Maninwhite).
A tongue in cheek look at the said pope.
There isn't much point having a story on Mercopress with a particular subject matter, people yabbering on about whatever enters their head irrespective of the article content. A bit like a row of old dementia patients in a nursing home.
Apr 20th, 2014 - 10:58 am - Link - Report abuse 0Comment removed by the editor.
Apr 20th, 2014 - 03:11 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You are a bitter twisted racist - a member of the English Defence League or some such extremist outfit, no doubt. Shame on you, you pitiful idiot!
Apr 20th, 2014 - 07:24 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I'd much rather be an honest racist than a brain-washed know-nothing ignoramus such as you. I'm secure in the knowledge that, until the cultural marxists took over the educational system and twisted small malleable brains like yours, almost everyone (excepting self-serving politicians) would have been considered a “racist” by contemporary standards and certainly ALL great men who built Britain and America. You clearly despise that great legacy and do not deserve to inherit it. I strongly suspect that, like your fellow turd, you are not a true Brit at all.
Apr 20th, 2014 - 09:36 pm - Link - Report abuse 0He's right! Mandela was a terrorist. Terrorist are cowards and need to be shot. He made good I grant you but he was still scum!
Apr 20th, 2014 - 09:43 pm - Link - Report abuse 0With all due respect, how many times have Popes sided with democracies over right-wing dictatorships over the last 100 years?
Apr 21st, 2014 - 12:06 am - Link - Report abuse 0@65
Apr 21st, 2014 - 06:01 am - Link - Report abuse 0You don't see any inconsistency's in that last sentence do you?
@64 ernestshackelton
Apr 21st, 2014 - 10:48 am - Link - Report abuse 0Not only am I confident that I am a true Brit but I am equally confident that you are NOT! The sick rubbish you post is not even worthy of the KKK at its worst!
The great white men you seem to laud would be ashamed of your rants.
#67
Apr 21st, 2014 - 10:48 am - Link - Report abuse 0For god's sake, stop posting. You're only stoking the troll-fire.
@69
Apr 21st, 2014 - 11:08 am - Link - Report abuse 0Relax Geoff, this thread will shortly disappear into digital obscurity leaving the trolls to contemplate their utter insignificance.
#67
Apr 21st, 2014 - 02:47 pm - Link - Report abuse 0No. no inconsistency's there at all.
mandela= convicted terrorist..yes
terrorists=cowards...yes
terrorists turned politician.....scum
Please enlighten us all to your superior knowledge.
next you'll be saying all ex-cons deserve to presidents because they've and it a bit tough prison....
@71
Apr 21st, 2014 - 04:07 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Technically it should say “Please enlighten us all OF your superior knowledge”. And even that sounds clumsy.
That's all the enlightening I'm allowed to do though. I've been sent to the naughty chair.
fantastic put down...that told me.
Apr 21st, 2014 - 05:41 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Except that your version of the use of English is of no concern to the rest of us. You obvious feel unable to answer your ridiculous statement and now want to try and take some superior position based on.....your use of English.
Fail!!!!!
....less clumsy would be......“Please enlighten us WITH your superior knowledge”
Apr 21st, 2014 - 10:30 pm - Link - Report abuse 0....“all” is superfluous as “us” covers it.....
good point. But my god. When someone has to pick up on an infinitesimally small detail to “win” (i use that loosely) their argument then it's hardly worth listening to them is it?
Apr 22nd, 2014 - 12:10 am - Link - Report abuse 0I'm sure he will do this to EVERYONE ELSE on these pages? He must have a LOT of spare time on his hands. GET a life!
Still never answered me either did he?
@74 A_Voice
Apr 22nd, 2014 - 12:25 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Thank you. Much more elegant.
Care to answer the question or back out like a coward again?
Apr 22nd, 2014 - 03:25 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Zzzzz...
Apr 22nd, 2014 - 04:42 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Comment removed by the editor.
Apr 22nd, 2014 - 08:54 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@78 Zzzzz...
Apr 23rd, 2014 - 12:25 am - Link - Report abuse 0LOL........
@79 How pathetic is it to connect the evil system of apartheid with patriotic support of of the Falkland Islanders? You must have a very twisted system of reasoning - with no connection to logic at all!
Apr 23rd, 2014 - 05:55 am - Link - Report abuse 0Yawn ,
Apr 23rd, 2014 - 06:17 am - Link - Report abuse 0@ 81 - so you reply to my comment whilst simultaneously go crying to teacher to have it removed so nobody else can see it? Anyway just for the record - and for those who didn't read or don't understand the relevance of my earlier remarks - my point was that anyone who considers apartheid “evil” in any way or form and, especially, a “crime against humanity”, is a dead in the wool (sic) leftist by definition since it is a hyperbolic mis-use of and crime against the language of logic and reason. Nobody with any common-sense could seriously argue against that. Therefore, since the frantic demands for “de-colonisation” ALWAYS come from the usual leftist suspects at the Useless Nations (UN), et al, then either you and G-man are the only 2 pro-colonialist lefties on the planet or you are allied with the lefties who want to see the Falklands de-colonised by Britain and re-colonised by the Argies. You simply can't have it both ways all your wasted life.
Apr 23rd, 2014 - 07:59 am - Link - Report abuse 0@83 Zzzzzz………….!
Apr 23rd, 2014 - 08:37 am - Link - Report abuse 0Comment removed by the editor.
Apr 23rd, 2014 - 03:41 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@85 Zzzzzzzzz………..!
Apr 23rd, 2014 - 08:28 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Comment removed by the editor.
Apr 23rd, 2014 - 09:16 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Commenting for this story is now closed.
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