MercoPress. South Atlantic News Agency
Argentina's industrial production and trade surplus falls point to recession
Argentina's industrial production contracted 6% in March from the same month last year, the government said on Friday, marking the sixth consecutive monthly loss in factory output due in part to weakness in the auto-making sector. In another report released on Friday Argentina's trade surplus contracted dramatically, indicating the country could be effectively heading for a recession. Read full article
Comments
Disclaimer & comment rulesWho really cares?
Apr 26th, 2014 - 08:06 am - Link - Report abuse 0Very predictable.
Apr 26th, 2014 - 09:38 am - Link - Report abuse 0Fortress Argentina is finally having its affect.
Apr 26th, 2014 - 11:34 am - Link - Report abuse 01100 people laid off at Renault and I predict it is the first wave of many. I think it is funny, last year I told all the Rg K supporters on here that Stagflation was the next step on their road to hyperinflation.
Apr 26th, 2014 - 11:39 am - Link - Report abuse 0And I am sticking by my predictions.
Next up another devaluation
Look to Caracas to see your immediate future rgs.
“Indec also revealed that Argentina's trade surplus in March plunged 95% on the year to 41 million dollars, owing to a broad decline in exports of commodities and manufactured goods.”
Apr 26th, 2014 - 12:47 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Does ANYBODY believe they ended with a surplus of US$ 41 Million? They are INDEC figures so who can believe them?
Not me!
Yankeeboy and I have been saying that the disaster that is coming in the finances of The Dark Country is imminent and we were castigated by the numb-nut argie trolls as liars and worse.
Mmm. I wonder who will be correct?
Ha, ha, ha to the power of Googol (not Google, the numb-nut who owns that thought Googol was Google: D’oh).
All you SA trolls can look that up, that will give you a headache as well as the one you will get thinking about the “future”- you haven't got one.
indicating the country could be effectively heading for a recession.
Apr 26th, 2014 - 07:09 pm - Link - Report abuse 0and yet, according to CFK , tin man , her government , and all the argy bloggers,
its impossible as they are riding a crest of a wave..lol
And yet, not one has appeared to defend themselves..lol
they must all be out surfboarding..lol
What happened to the K supporters on here?
Apr 26th, 2014 - 08:06 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@ 7 ElaineB
Apr 26th, 2014 - 08:39 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Hi Elaine!
Yes, they seem to have gone to ground and it's been very quiet of late.
Thankfully even TTT in whatever guise he takes seems to be even more ridiculous than “normal” thus indicating his lack of coaching from La Camping It Up.
CD is still here but at least he comes up with sensible arguments and doesn’t seem to be a troll.
Are you still in The Dark Country, if so please take care.
No I am home in England for a couple of months. I arrived home on Monday so still on American time. I spent a bit of time in D.C. on the way home.
Apr 26th, 2014 - 09:21 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I like debating with the Argentines. CD puts up a good argument and I sometimes agree with him. It is fine to disagree when debating.
TTT would be a social misfit in any country. The fact that he claims to be Argentine is pretty much irrelevant.
Kicillof knows that there's a recession on the way, he has engineered it. This is actually the cure not the symptom. So far given the limitations he has been one of their better performers. Cristina's 2013-2014 budget predicted the Dollar at 6.3, the inflation rate at 10.4%, and the GDP growth at 6.2%. All complete lies and fabrications. Now it's up to him to give the K's a reality check. Not an easy job. First convince Cristina to devalue (she had just promised that she wouldn't), then allow the limited purchase of US$ and also move interest rates to a more realistic level (they are still in negative territory). This sucked up massive amounts of liquidity and thus the demand for the black market dollar, as well as giving the sensation of “stability”. Predictably the result has been a drastic drop in consumption, which is the engine in Kirchnerist economics. Now that they are beginning to own up to more realistic data they will be in a position to make better informed decisions, whether they do I'm not entirely sure but it's fun to watch.
Apr 26th, 2014 - 10:55 pm - Link - Report abuse 08
Apr 27th, 2014 - 01:31 am - Link - Report abuse 0“CD is still here but at least he comes up with sensible arguments and doesn’t seem to be a troll.”
Well thanks, that is good to know.......Errrrrrrr
10. Creating a Recession with high inflation will only lead to Hyperinflation.
Apr 27th, 2014 - 01:47 am - Link - Report abuse 0They will be forced into another devaluation shortly which will increase inflation then lead to hyperinflation.
No matter what they do they can't dig themselves out of this mess. Only time and austerity will fix it.
There is really not much evidence in Mendoza of what this article or INDEC “claim”. Remember, INDEC's numbers are probably exaggerated to the down side in order to ease bond payments.
Apr 27th, 2014 - 03:07 am - Link - Report abuse 0There is no sign in Mendoza that there is a recession coming, things are quite similar to a year ago, slower than in the past, but nothing super serious. It maybe different in other parts of the country, but Mendoza has always outperformed significantly in “bad” times, and usually outperformed more modestly in good times.
13. Yeah sure.
Apr 27th, 2014 - 09:02 am - Link - Report abuse 0@11CabezaDura2,
Apr 27th, 2014 - 10:16 am - Link - Report abuse 0l also, think that you are more reasonable than most other Argentine posters on this site.
l also, don't think that you are a troll.
Peace
http://www.urgente24.com/226037-regresa-el-dolar-caliente-se-viene-una-brecha-creciente-entre-el-oficial-y-el-blue
Apr 27th, 2014 - 02:09 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Rut Ro
Toby, You keep asking where the 14/1 I predicted is...just wait a bit.
This is a hilarious article:
http://www.urgente24.com/226037-regresa-el-dolar-caliente-se-viene-una-brecha-creciente-entre-el-oficial-y-el-blue
Maybe GDP has been GROSSLY overstated Year over Year over Year for a decade.
Could that be it?
Nah
Bahahahahahaa
The poor guy is in a contradiction in his job. They want to lie slightly less and make it appear as they have reformed the INDEC in order to return to the credit markets and hopefully the IMF buys it, yet they don’t want to tell the truth to the extend they will have to pay political costs of the true pathetic state of the country is in and there miss management and corruption.
Apr 27th, 2014 - 04:04 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Yep. Its quite the balancing act. Trying to weigh and remember what lies were told to whom and when.
Apr 27th, 2014 - 04:50 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The GDP numbers have been seriously overstated the last decade and then compounded upon. It'll take a long time to fix them.
Wanna bet indec has a fire next year?
Three cheers for Christina she has really screwed up her country like her husband, keep up the good work we are all relying on you now to make it even worse.
Apr 27th, 2014 - 05:28 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Mendoza may be slightly less affected than the rest of Argentina. It was originally part of Chile.
Apr 27th, 2014 - 10:06 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Elaine and ChrisR
Apr 27th, 2014 - 10:29 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I don't always agree with him, but CD is very consistently anti-K ,and he is definitely not a Troll.
He is an Argentine patriot - I can respect that.
@21 As I said, I have no problem with him or his views.
Apr 27th, 2014 - 10:50 pm - Link - Report abuse 020
Apr 28th, 2014 - 12:22 am - Link - Report abuse 0I have friends over there and they say it doesn't look good at all.
As always the best parts of the country will be the central agro provinces with most middle class that always have to take the vanguard blow of crisis in money worth.
I have a fear that Medium and small size in Cordoba, Santa Fe and North Eastern BsAs province will end up reciving the next wave of poor migrants from the nothern provinces and the Conurbano of Bs As and place their shanty towns, wich is completaly not fair after all the money we have being giving the central government all these years.
@20
Apr 28th, 2014 - 02:42 am - Link - Report abuse 0And when was that, “Mendoza, Chile”? Actually never.
“Mendoza, Capitania de Chile, SPAIN?” Sure, last time it was the year 1776.
So what can we conclude from your comments? Either you are a very “elderly” lady and remember the times, or your comments are cheap attempts at spiting, even though you claim to have “nothing against Argentines”.
Whichever of the two it may be, it is not becoming.
24 NOSTRILS
Apr 28th, 2014 - 03:05 am - Link - Report abuse 0It's YOU, Nostrils, that seems to being about Mendoza.
Your claim that “all is well” in Mendoza is in direct contradiction of what your fellow Argentinian tells us.
CD2 @23 wrote
“I have friends over there and they say it doesn't look good at all. ”
CD 2 has a lot more credibility than you, he hasn't got a history of lying and fabricating stories, like you do !!
Excuse you, don't you have more pressing worries like a looming racial war in North America? I hear rumours that things are really getting hot on the streets of the continent last 48 hours.
Apr 28th, 2014 - 03:33 am - Link - Report abuse 0Second, please quote me verbatim and reply # for my quote “all is well”.
Third, CD is wrong. Rosario was a DISASTER in the 2o02 economic crisis, something like the Detroit of Argentina. In fact I had three neighbors that were Santafecinos, two from Rosario another from Santo Tome. They had fewer malls and supermarkets than Mendoza, with 50% more population! (they have caught up since then, but they are a bigger city so that's expected).
Buenos Aires is too dependent on the rest of the country. Cordoba is the better of the three.
Fourth, I really don't care whether you believe me or not.
Fifth, none of the above has anything to do with @24.
Toby
Apr 28th, 2014 - 03:55 am - Link - Report abuse 0Actually in 2002 I remember visiting Rosario and already at those years having to cope with endless amounts of immigrants from poor Northern provinces like Corrientes, Chaco and Misiones. Otherwise central Pampas cities like Rosario, San Pedro, Arrecifes, Pergamino, Venado Tuerto, Junin, Chacabuco have always being the front bearers of every crisis and very middle class.
Cordoba, Santa Fe, CABA and BsAs are the only supporters of the rest of the country and have being doing so for more than 20 years. And they are becoming poor subsidizing the poor provinces that don’t overcome poverty but also having to take in their poor.
http://www.lanacion.com.ar/1635992-provincias-pobres-y-provincias-ricas
26 NOSTRILS
Apr 28th, 2014 - 04:00 am - Link - Report abuse 0“Excuse you, don't you have more pressing worries like a looming racial war in North America? I hear rumours that things are really getting hot on the streets of the continent last 48 hours.”
huh ? really?? I've heard nothing about that.
I'd better get my native houseboy to check outside the gate or ride into town to see what the Klan are up to.
There, satisfied ??
I guess you don't know what is happening here, anymore than you know what's going on in Mendoza,
13Nostrils
“There is no sign in Mendoza that there is a recession coming, things are quite similar to a year ago, ”
Paraphrased, “all is well in Mendoza”.
I guess you just “forgot” you said that.
That's what happens when you make up lies, Nostril.
Can you tread water??
@27
Apr 28th, 2014 - 04:05 am - Link - Report abuse 0You are correct on the Chaco belt that sorrounds Greater Rosario and Buenos Aires.
But half of those are also foreigners. Should they be deported?
29
Apr 28th, 2014 - 04:26 am - Link - Report abuse 0You can’t deport them after willingly given them Argentine citizenship by “Patria Grande” plan for a vote. It is unconstitutional to deport them.
But actually it seems to me most foreigners go to the most well known Shanty towns of CABA like the 31th in Retiro or the 1-11-14 otherwise I seriously doubt that half of the slums are foreign inhabited.
“Un Techo para mi pais” reckons there is round about 6,2 million ppl living in the slums and only half a million foreigners have being accommodated by Patria Grande… So it doesn’t add up that half the slum dwellers are foreign, though it is more comfortable for many here to say so.
The Villas they peronist have being relocating into the interior to keep on friendly legislators and mayors are all argentine. In Santa Fe, they have located slums into productive cities like Venado Tuerto all for political dominance.
And anyway Paraguay and Bolivia seem to be doing better than Argentina nowadays. Just simply cut all the benefits, social assistance and subsidies and the will start returning.
29 Nostrils
Apr 28th, 2014 - 04:30 am - Link - Report abuse 0“You are correct on the Chaco belt that sorrounds Greater Rosario and Buenos Aires.”
But what about Mendoza? Are you saying you are correct and CD2's sources who live there are lying??
“But half of those are also foreigners. Should they be deported?”
How do you know that? Are those INDEC statistics, or your personal opinion?
Instead of blaming “foreigners”, how about looking at CFK's economic policies??
@30
Apr 28th, 2014 - 04:48 am - Link - Report abuse 0You are brainwashed just as much as as the kirchnerists, if you believe the rest of Latin America is doing better than Argentina.
Half a million foreigners in Patria Grande, but how many amnesties have been given before patria grande? Mininum 3. Add them all up and you get a good couple of million. And then count all the children that are Argentina and never counted as being naturalized anyway.
@31
Yes, I am suggesting they are typical Argentines who over dramatize. Have a problem with me criticizing Argentines now too?
Maybe the problem is you, since you never find peace with my views regardless of whether they suit your point or not.
And where did I blame foreigners??? Is that line also in the same reply as where I said “all is well”? (no, paraphrasing is not proof you doof).
I'm now waiting for you to prove two quotes of mine: that I blame foreigners (blame them for what, anyway, btw?), and that I said “all is well”.
Or maybe go back to reciting The White Man's Burden by the hero of all non-Argentines that post here, Kipling...
Troy
Apr 28th, 2014 - 04:53 am - Link - Report abuse 0To realize yourself you should have to take the 7th national route bypass all the central and Pampas cities and as you go further west you will see poorer country. So anybody from Santa Fe, Cordoba will see Mendoza capital as far more poor.
However Mendoza is poor but just average Poor Argentina. They are around 30 % poverty by private estimates.
http://www.losandes.com.ar/notas/2014/4/26/mendoza-pobreza-llegaria-poblacion-781769.asp
Nothern provinces like Chaco, Formosa, Misiones, Santiago del Estero would be over 60% poor...If not more
33 CD2
Apr 28th, 2014 - 05:46 am - Link - Report abuse 0Thanks CD,
I appreciate the honest background information you provide.
I am surprised that the Northern provinces are that much in poverty.
So, relatively speaking, the reliable 30% poverty figure for Mendoza, is far less than other parts of Argentina. Yikes, who would have thought that.
For the past couple of years that I've been on MP, our friend “Nostrils ” “ Toby ” etc. has painted Mendoza as an oasis of peace and prosperity, isolated from the ills plaguing Argentina. In fact he was seemly unaware of the social and economic issues facing average Argentinians.
It has made us wonder if he is really living in Argentina at all.
Toby has gone so far as to send us photoshopped pictures of “new malls” springing up in Mendoza.
Now, he says,
““There is no sign in Mendoza that there is a recession coming, things are quite similar to a year ago, ”
That seems to directly contradict what your sources say,
”have friends over there and they say it doesn't look good at all. ”
Many of us have reason to doubt what Nostrils/Toby says, in this case also.
He would split hairs, but even if he did not literally say “all is well ” in Mendoza, he did imply that there were no serious problems there.
As I said, I am shocked at the magnitude of the poverty issue and new shanty towns, but as you say, it cannot be 1/2 foreigners. Argentina doesn't have that many.
That is what I am saying too.
Nostrils has never criticised the economic policies of the government or members of the sitting administration.
I have to conclude that he is not being intellectually honest, much like Axel Arrghh.
I just read in Ambito.com that the banks in Argentina are charging 100% interest rates for loans and that they are also charging 30% commission. Recession here we come.
Apr 28th, 2014 - 08:35 am - Link - Report abuse 035. That makes sense when they must assume there's another huge devaluation on the way. I posted that everyone thinks the peso will be 18-20 by eoy.
Apr 28th, 2014 - 10:12 am - Link - Report abuse 0I have to chuckle that Toby equates Shopping Malls with Wealth. It is so odd and it must be a 3rd world thing because here in the USA I just read all the malls (as you think of them) will be gone in 5-10yrs. They are akin to Locutorios. It's not like you see them here either! Come to think of it the last mall I was in was in Argentina. Weird.
For those of you who have not been to Mendoza, it is a pretty Provincial town, small, not much to offer and undeveloped compared to BA. The most I remember about it is they have open sewer lines between the sidewalks and road with little bridges over them. Good gracious be careful after a night of flowing wine! Toby, did they ever cover them like we do in the first world?
I thought they were irrigation channels for the numerous trees they have planted. Mendoza is in a dessert and very hot in the summer. It would be unbearable without the trees planted to give some relief during the hottest months. The ditches are certainly are something to be aware of at any time of the day.
Apr 28th, 2014 - 11:26 am - Link - Report abuse 0Yes, it is relatively small town and the centre has some nice plazas. There is a lot of begging around the tourist streets and restaurants. Whilst I felt fairly safe there my Buenos Aires companions were spooked and nervous. The last time I was there, about a year ago, the locals were constantly warning about high crime rates and to be careful. They recounted a number of recent incidents to illustrate their warnings.
I should add that every local person I spoke with did not share TTT's optimism for the future. They were very worried indeed about the economy there.
And in the news today...Volkswagen has 15000 cars it can't sell...as the get ready to pack up and leave. And Mendoza is really no different from the rest of this poor country...there are so many things missing on the shelves of the stores that it is really in crisis mode.
Apr 28th, 2014 - 11:35 am - Link - Report abuse 037. They could be irrigation channels but the still should be covered. I can imagine they have a lot of broken bones during the wine fest!
Apr 28th, 2014 - 11:40 am - Link - Report abuse 0I wasn't spooked there but I really didn't venture too far out of tourist areas at night.
I was looking at buying a winery that the guy was desperate to sell but some lady beat me to it. I couldn't figure out what it was really worth and I was worried about the irrigation to the fields plus all the workers looked so lazy.
Oh well it all worked out for the best. I certainly wouldn't want to own it now. I hear you can't even import the bottles they need.
@39 If you ever consider the wine industry again I would point you to Chile. There are a lot of financial incentives if you know what you are doing. And, being Chile, you know the right people.
Apr 28th, 2014 - 11:57 am - Link - Report abuse 040. I have no idea what I am doing in that industry. I buy distressed property, hold it and sell it when its profitable. That was the big hold up when I looked at the winery. I didn't know anything about the business and I didn't want to live in Mendoza figuring it out while the locals robbed me blind until I did.
Apr 28th, 2014 - 12:01 pm - Link - Report abuse 038. bad news about VW, I know a lot of people on here didn't believe me when I said the car mfgs will probably just pull out if it gets much worse. Let's see what happens because this is just the beginning of the Sh*tstorm that's just over the horizon.
@41 - If that is your model, don't buy a winery. There is SO much specialist knowledge required that it would probably end up being too much hassle furthermore, you really have to know what you are buying (right down to the changes in minerality, ph levels of the soil for the last 20-30 years including backdated vintages to work out how these changes have impacted on the wine). Also, 1 bad ail storm and your crop can be wiped out in an afternoon (even with the hail breakers they have). I've looked at doing something similar and there is just too much uncertainty inherent in the business to make it viable unless wine is in your blood (as it were). Let alone the inflationary problems.
Apr 28th, 2014 - 12:19 pm - Link - Report abuse 0As for the bottles, they import them from Italy for no apparent reason. They are a pain in the ass as they hold the same as normal bottles but are bigger, thus making shipping a serious annoyance. The wine industry has a joke about the use of these bottles in that they are used by the Argentinean wine industry either to make up for the size of their manhood or as a cheap marketing ploy.
@42 Don't make me tell the cork story again. :)
Apr 28th, 2014 - 12:37 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I don't know any winery owner with the complete knowledge. You bring in the expertise. But, I agree, there are easier ways to make money and many people have a romantic idea about wine making.
@43 very true. The only issue is that consultants cost a fortune and, unless you have an excellent team to implement everything they tell you and also buy the kit they tell you you end up throwing good money after bad.
Apr 28th, 2014 - 12:41 pm - Link - Report abuse 0What's the cork story?
I am not going to fall for the trick of turncoat Cabeza Dura and the anti-Argentine racists foreigners above. As for his Mendoza rant, he is simply lying now. Mendoza has never been seen as poor province, ever. He is just simply a poor deluded liar who now wants to trash Mendoza because I come from there. Let him if he must but I won't fall for the game of now trashing the Pampean provinces to get even.
Apr 28th, 2014 - 12:58 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I think it's people like him that should be deported from the country. They do far more damage with their divisive “argentine vs argentine” that he is now promoting here. I have lost all respect for him, he is now a simple traitor (no wonder the anti-argies now call him “patriot”, make sense!)
Shopping malls are dying in the USA because you no longer have the purchasing power to keep them running, so there is excess capacity. Yeah, a sign of “development” that your middle class is now #2 in the world, and will fall to #5 richest shortly.
I have never seen such a bunch of half-truths, imbedded racist comments, and poor attempts at spite as between 35-44 that I will let the craziness and bigotry of the people who wrote them speak for themselves.
Ahh today it is Intnet, I guess tomorrow it will be food.
Apr 28th, 2014 - 01:12 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The malls are dying because the concept is out of date. It has to do with the new City Center concept and the Internet.
You know we actually have goods delivered after we buy them on the internet! Gasp! Delivered!! They're not stolen at Customs or in the Mail!
Double Gasp
or
Not like in Argentina when you have to meet up with someone to get whatever you want to buy and people are too scared to do it because most of the time it is a scam and they end up robbing you.
Most of the world dreams of being as rich as the poorest strata of the USA hoping someday to be part of the USA middle class. You'll never know. You'll be lucky to make U$300/mo when you are in your 40s.
Poor thing you have absolutely no idea how the civilized world works.
@34 Troy
Apr 28th, 2014 - 01:15 pm - Link - Report abuse 0He does have a point in that many slum dwellers are foreign, but to what extend is very hard to know because a lot of data is corrupted and unreliable
What I got confused last night is the amount of ppl living in slums according to a NGO UTPMP, its 2,5 million slum dwellers which represent 6 PERCENT of the population.
http://secciones.cienradios.com.ar/radiomitre/2013/11/13/cerca-del-6-de-los-argentinos-vive-en-villas-miseria/
INDEC census of 2010 (the latests) is impossible for me to open at this moment but related articles say there is only 1.805.957 foreigners in Argentina and that is considering all nationals. However half of that number is Bolivian Peruvian and Paraguayan combined. So that is less than a million. So if Patria Grande had incorporated half a million from 2004 when it was introduced to law all the way to 2010 then Patria Grande has a lot to account for in contradiction to what Toby says.
http://secciones.cienradios.com.ar/radiomitre/2013/11/13/cerca-del-6-de-los-argentinos-vive-en-villas-miseria/
http://secciones.cienradios.com.ar/radiomitre/2013/11/13/cerca-del-6-de-los-argentinos-vive-en-villas-miseria/
So if even by chance they were ALL COMBINED and happened to live in slums you would still have + 1.500.000 Argentine slums dwellers
The clearest article I found on the matter is a La Nacion one titled “Foreigners in their own country” What is pretty clear is that 20% of population of greater BsAs is made of internal immigrants from the northern Argentine provinces alone. This article literally states that 68% of slums of this district are made of different migrant groups of northern immigrants from various generations.
http://secciones.cienradios.com.ar/radiomitre/2013/11/13/cerca-del-6-de-los-argentinos-vive-en-villas-miseria/
So this confirms my feelings that most foreigners go to the most notable slums in Capital Federal, near to the center of the city like the 1-11-14 and Retiro, but most of the dwellers of slums in the country are definitely Argentine.
@46
Apr 28th, 2014 - 01:18 pm - Link - Report abuse 0New city center?? LOL new concept? You mean as in cities having an actual livable, functioning, active DOWNTOWN??
Argentina's cities have both functioning downtowns like REAL cities and shopping malls in the suburbs.
So I guess American cities are not emerging from the dark ages, we have a market downtown now woo hoo! What a severely underdeveloped country the USA, celebrating the fact that huge cities like Los Angeles and Houston are just now developing a “city center”.
What's next to celebrate on the list? Actual REAL public transport to get you there? Then you will be emerging into the 19th century.
Losers.
No longer #1 middle class yankeeboy, I warned you all your indicators this year would be going south... not even a “good” economy (which you don't have) will change the trend. One year does not undo the last 15 since 2000 of horrible performance.
Wow, a downtown... now we're talking about being up to date!! hahahaha
Silly boy. You shouldn't try to talk about concepts that are unfamiliar to you. Its like having clean safe streets. You'll never know and don't understand.
Apr 28th, 2014 - 01:21 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Don't worry about the USA. I am not.
I'd worry about the peso going to 18-20 by year end and inflation going over 100%yoy.
I just saw fruit/vegys are up on avg 238% yoy.
Apple or internet apple or internet?
Pretty soon you won't even have that choice.
@49
Apr 28th, 2014 - 01:33 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You just talked about the internet... gasp, you think I don't read the same things you can read.
I passively thumb through this website where people discuss urban development. I have seen it and can bring a dozen links to prove it, American posters from all kinds of American cities CELEBRATING the fact that a SUPERMARKET was going to open in the city center. ONE SUPERMARKET!!!!
hahahahaha, I just felt so sorry for them.
And then when the project stalled in many cases (yes, in the USA it's not a sure bet opening a GROCERY STORE), due to uncertainty about the success, the lamentations are so genuine. For a supermarket...
I see Cabeza dura continues with his Northern Argentina rant. So now his true colors have been exposed.
BTW, if RN7 has detours in the Pampean provinces due to lack of maintenance, how does that speak badly of Mendoza, where this road is in its ENTIRELY a multilane freeway???
There are more freeways in Mendoza city than in Cordoba and Rosario combined. Cabeza Dura lives in the past. NO person from those cities sees Mendoza as poor. They see the freeway, the supermarkets in every corner, the cleanliness, the Troles, the suburban metro, the huge park, the nice stadium, etc, etc... He knows it, there is a forum where all this is clearly to be seen, he is just spiteful at me. The people from other cities in Argentina admire Mendoza, they all say it does not look like Argentina, and they mean that in a positive way.
@45
Apr 28th, 2014 - 01:35 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I have nothing against Mendoza nor you personally, muppet.
I never lie In fact many ppl find my obsession with truth irritating, even here...
As I said you cannot compare the Cuyan provinces of Mendoza, San Juan o San Luis with Pampean provinces in economic dynamism and wealth.
I also said that you are far better of than northern provnces. Somebody from Scandinavia travelling by Argentina will probably make no distinction in amount of poverty between a Pampas province, a Cuyan province or a Northern Province... But we can and you know it.
I already attached a nice article with a interesting graph which displays the ammount of money different provinces put in on the “Y” axis and on “X” the ammount of poverty the provinces have. Mendoza is on the middle and not to bad regarding the rest of the provinces but of course with poverty more closer to the 30% than the one its states there. Poverty here in Cordoba is true too its just as not as bad as overthere.
www.lanacion.com.ar/1635992-provincias-pobres-y-provincias-ricas
The poorest place I've ever seen in South America is Misiones. It is worse than Peru or Bolivia. Filthy disgusting shoeless kids begging in dirt streets in what is considered a downtown.
Apr 28th, 2014 - 01:43 pm - Link - Report abuse 0My advice is to see the falls but never leave the resort.
You are the one who began the Pampean vs non-pampean “discussion”. You are the one who first attacked Mendoza by making comparisons. I have no interesti in the subject of comparing regions of Argentina.
Apr 28th, 2014 - 01:47 pm - Link - Report abuse 0But it would seem Scandinavians can make a difference based on where they choose to live...
They have huge problems in Scandinavia now with emerging new poverty, no country is “advancing” these days.
52
Apr 28th, 2014 - 01:47 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I would agree with you YB, but apparently its anti Argentine to say that the north is poor or that pampean provinces are wealthier than Mendoza..
TTT your grandiose statements do not give you credibility. You have said you have never been to the US -and don't want to - so your statements must come third-hand from some internet site for the severely malcontented.
Apr 28th, 2014 - 01:48 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I was in the D.C. and Virginia just last week and remember commenting to my companion how very easy life is there. Everything is geared to giving the consumer whatever they want as quickly as possible. Instant gratification is demanded by consumers. Your claims about a lack of purchasing power is naive and ill-informed. As yankeeboy has pointed out, the emphasis has moved to online shopping. It is quick, easy and efficient. I do almost all of my shopping online because it fits around my work and social commitments. Who wants to schlep to a mall? Not me and not the majority of consumers anymore.
I cannot see this progression coming to Argentina in the near future but you may get there in a decade or so. Even if you did have the delivery service most people wouldn't trust it.
@53
Apr 28th, 2014 - 01:57 pm - Link - Report abuse 0No you idiot, I simply started off by saying that my friends and acquaintances over here say that Mendoza is not looking good in comparison. I believe that a next wave of poor northerners will be sent over here as the crisis gets worse. Not Mendoza. From there on I simply dis agreed with the notion that most sum dwellers are foreign, instead of bitching around and feel chased why dont you provide real debate and discussion or prove me wrong in a adult manner????
@54
Apr 28th, 2014 - 02:40 pm - Link - Report abuse 0No one, absolutely no one, believes Misiones is poorer than Bolivia or Paraguay. No one. So I won't bother refuting such blatant fiction.
@55
Washington and Virginia are the ONLY places in the USA doing well. All the nation's wealth is being funneled there. That trend is something that is very wel known. The rest of the country is getting poorer and poorer while all the laywers, lobbyists, and politcians living around Washington DC get richer and richer.
The USA and Brazil are now sister nations. Everyone that goes to both countries can no longer tell them apart.
I like going to a mall because I enjoy the presence of other human beings. You are just a bitter, anti-social misanthrope. Period. You have no social commitments. You talk about instant gratification but buy everything online and you have to wait 4 days to get it, minimum.
Keep posting people, you contradict yourselves within the same post!
Yankebooy is excited his city will not get a “city center”... we call those in Argentina “el centro”. Or Palermo Hollywood. 25 years old now, that concept.
hahaha.
@56
And everyone I speak says the opposite of what you are saying. So?
The USA and Brazil are now sister nations. Everyone that goes to both countries can no longer tell them apart.
Apr 28th, 2014 - 02:43 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Says someone who's never left his slum, oh no wait he took a bus 13 hrs to get to another slum by the ocean.
Psst I've been to Brazil and its not like the USA. Well come to think of it there are a lot of Brazilian waiters and bartenders there too.
Silly monkey, you still don't understand what you are talking about. You may as well give up now while you still look like a halfwit.
Misiones definetly is poorer than Santa Cruz Bolivia or central Paraguay
Apr 28th, 2014 - 02:51 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“And everyone I speak says the opposite of what you are saying. So?”
And everyone I speak to says the opposite of what you are saying, but not only that I have provided already many sources and data that backs it up. See the difference??
“You talk about instant gratification but buy everything online and you have to wait 4 days to get it, minimum”
Apr 28th, 2014 - 02:57 pm - Link - Report abuse 0over 90% of the stuff I buy online is delivered next day. Why do you have to wait almost a working week to get stuff delivered?
I don't think TTT has used an online delivery service. Order up to 9.00 p.m. for most things for next day delivery.
Apr 28th, 2014 - 03:16 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Honestly, if you have to hang out at a mall to get social contact you are in a worse situation than I thought. I know you have said you don't date women or men (you added that) and clearly you don't fit well in social situations. Shopping is a necessity that has to be done in order for me to get on with my life. Do you see the difference?
I could have inserted San Francisco or New York or Boston in my example. I visited them all in the last 12 months and they are all doing well. They are not the ONLY places doing well in the US but how would you ever know? You will never go there. You hardly know your own country.
I remember visiting the Salta area a couple of years back and listening to the locals explaining how much they suffered during the last crash. I suspect they will feel it more than most in the coming year.
@59
Apr 28th, 2014 - 04:04 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You have provided no data only your online opinion of the comments of some o your friend's friends. Yeah very reliable.
In the meantime I have provided link after link of the USA falling in rankings all over the place, and Elaine here insist all of it is false that I'm lying, etc.
Like I said, keep it up guys. Your only consistency is inconsistency.
“over 90% next day”
Well, that's not 100% nor instantaneous is it? Fail.
I was just talking two weeks ago with an American ex-pat (btw, people rejecting US citizenship is now at an ALL-TIME high, another sign things are so well as Elaine says... haha). The INjustice system in the USA, that's why he left.
He told me a story about he having to act as a judge in a case (my goodness, Americans have common citizens as judges????). A guy was stealing bananas from a banana boat (all banana references to the USA are purely coincidental). It was this guy and five women deciding this case (where is a real judge?). The guy, while stealing bananas, was injured. He SUES the company... hahaha.
The case went on for MONTHS. Not only because the court itself had cut a side deal with a PRIVATE corrections facility to keep the guy locked up, but because the lawyers temporized to know end with procedural caviling.
When the trial finally begins (again, not for the stealing, but for the guy getting injured while stealing!), the man tells me that he was stuck THREE days in the decision process with five women deciding the case.
Why?
One of them was knitting a pullover and wanted to finish, another was unemployed and needed the money, and another because she had a minor accident one time and she could not fool the insurance to pay expensive massage treatments for her, and wanted payback!
American justice. No real judges, corrupt deals between court and jails, crooked lawyers, criminal suing the victim, completely incompetent or irresponsible citizenry deciding guilt or innocence.
What an utter and complete disaster.
Anyway most senior independent economists seem to agree that exports have being grossly overstated in the lasts years, now the gov't in being cornered to put up a more realistic figure. According to Cachanovsky they are still lying about the real trade balance out of fear that the blue dollar spirals out of control.
Apr 28th, 2014 - 04:13 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Unlike inflation index, the trade balance should be more difficult to lie about since anybody can know how much Argentina buys and sells to the rest of the world.
@Toby
Dont be so stupid and dishonest.
I have sourced everything so far… The numbers of the slums and foreing nationals in the country to at much extent in my comment in #47
About Mendoza ...
Poverty is 30% poor according to private estimates in Mendoza. Your own Diario Los Andes a few days ago published this not my mates nor my opinion.
http://www.losandes.com.ar/notas/2014/4/26/mendoza-pobreza-llegaria-poblacion-781769.asp
I also provided a very informative graph which shows you which are the provinces who most contribute to the pott vs the ammount of poor each provinces have.
@63
Apr 28th, 2014 - 04:19 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Of course you trust Mendoza statistics? Why do you think in much of the 2000s it was our inflation index that was the facto the national retail index? Remember that?
Why didn't they choose a pampean province index? Hmmm.
Im afraid your coward governor bowed down to the Ks on that one...
Apr 28th, 2014 - 04:34 pm - Link - Report abuse 0http://www.lanacion.com.ar/1475529-mendoza-dejara-de-publicar-su-indice-de-inflacion-para-alinearse-con-el-indec
So is Mendoza 30% poor or not ?? What do you reckon?
63. It is possible to fudge the import/export numbers. Estimates are that last year they were overstating the gain by U$6B-U$9B ( I can't remember the number people were throwing around just now).
Apr 28th, 2014 - 04:39 pm - Link - Report abuse 0They are also holding payments to importers by U$6B now.
It is a mess.
I doubt very much that they'll make up the huge decrease in auto sales with the additional Soy sales.
Brr
@65
Apr 28th, 2014 - 05:35 pm - Link - Report abuse 0And so what? The rest of you “bowed” on day one! Pointless attack on Mendoza once again.
I have always said poverty in Argentina is 25%. No 8% on the low end not 35% like some opposition groups claim. Period.
You severely underestimate the amount of foreigners in Mendoza, you really have no idea. Just Bolivians there are at least 100.000. That's 7% of the province. That does not count 20.000 Chileans, 15.000 other South American, and the Euro-North Am invasion to Mendoza, particularly the city and Tupungato.
Indec has been without electricity for a few days. The poverty numbers must be really really bad.
Apr 28th, 2014 - 05:48 pm - Link - Report abuse 0As I said I bet next year Indec will have a “terrible terrible” fire and all the data from the last 10yrs is destroyed.
My guess is in another year you'll be right back up to 50%.
After the next devaluation it will throw those families barely hanging on into poverty.
The next crash will be much worse than 2001.
Much worse.
What is the date of the fire?
Apr 28th, 2014 - 06:15 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Wasn't there a fire last year that wiped out banking records or something? Did anything ever come if the investigation?
@67
Apr 28th, 2014 - 06:33 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“And so what? The rest of you “bowed” on day one! Pointless attack on Mendoza once again.”
I will put it simple for you dump boy how come the only provinces that have been persistent anti K all these years have being only CABA, Cordoba and Santa Fe?
That’s right because they put in more than they receive. They are the very few who have money to fight for. Mendoza and San Luis governors flipped over like pancakes when they became deficitiery and dependent on the national government.
BTW I dont like DLS but at least he has kept a vocal and persistant attitude about this.
Poverty in Argentina is one thing, poverty in Mendoza is another, poverty in the Pampean regions in another and poverty in Mendoza is another. Period.
I've got nothing against Mendoza Toby, but dont kid me with the stuff you are saying here.
@68 INDEC has just figured out that their figures are more accurate without the computer being plugged in.
Apr 28th, 2014 - 06:34 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Until they change everyone in that service no one will believe any figures coming out of them.
They are still saying you can feed a family of 4 on 6 pesos a day! I can't even buy 500 grams of rice for that now.
@68, 69
Apr 28th, 2014 - 06:40 pm - Link - Report abuse 0EPIC FAIL you FOOLS. The fire was caused by an AMERICAN company, and guess where the two other fires occurred? LONDON AND OTTAWA.
HAHAHAHAHA! What a bunch of utter retards these Anglos. Trying to insult Argies, and they had the exact same crap happen to them
http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/9002001/Two_Iron_Mountain_facilities_hit_by_fire
@70
Whatever, you are making no sense now. I have no problem if each province keeps their own money. Quite frankly I don't give a darn about the Pampean or the Northern Provinces.
@72 What? An American company in Argentina. Yes, they store information. What is your point?
Apr 28th, 2014 - 06:46 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Obviously they do a HORRIBLE job of it. Three fires in 10 years.
Apr 28th, 2014 - 07:01 pm - Link - Report abuse 0A company from Bangladesh probably is a safer bet than that anglo outfit.
@ 73 ElaineB
Apr 28th, 2014 - 07:09 pm - Link - Report abuse 0What about the corks?
You have us all chafing at the bit in suspense! :o)
@75
Apr 28th, 2014 - 07:20 pm - Link - Report abuse 0She hasn't finished making up the apocryphal anti-argie anecdote yet. A science-fiction writer needs time after all.
Yes it was a terrible terrible fire that occurred just when they were looking for CFK and minions bank transfers.
Apr 28th, 2014 - 07:49 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Terrible terrible fire.
Just wait there will be one at INDEC and maybe even BCRA a week before an Int'l audit.
Where oh where did that U$900B over the last 10yrs go?
Where oh where?
@74 You seriously think that an American company in Argentina only employs Americans? You have a very simplistic view of the world, all wrapped up in prejudice and envy.
Apr 28th, 2014 - 07:56 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@75 A very old story from way back when I was first living in Buenos Aires. I will spare the full details, though some of the regulars will remember it. As I made friends with the local gals there was a recurrent complaint about the local guys. I can't verify it personally but can say it came up regularly when Argentine girls were critiquing their Argentine chaps. One particular occasion I was having supper and a bottle of wine in a restaurant with a friend when she was relaying her disappointment at a recent encounter with an Argentine guy and to emphasis her point she used the cork from the wine bottle to illustrate just how disappointing he was.
The joke ^^ about the larger wine bottles just reminded me of the story. I am sure it is just a myth. :)
I wonder how much % of those 900 Bn USD have gone in corruption and how much % has gone in mal administration say propaganda, subsidies, capital flight, energy imports etc
Apr 28th, 2014 - 08:40 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Will probably never know....
@79 Theres corruption in all countries. In the UK we just dress it up better and polish its shoes. Military Industrial complex and all that.
Apr 28th, 2014 - 08:54 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@79 Yeah, I am sure an awful lot of it has gone on staying in power.
Apr 28th, 2014 - 08:58 pm - Link - Report abuse 080
Apr 28th, 2014 - 10:16 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Even by Argentine standards this government has being incredibly corrupt. I dont think the people realize the scale and magnitude of how much they have being robbed blind.
CFK in her own safe coffer in Santa Cruz beneath her mansion it is estimated she can hold up to 3.000 million Euros worth of 500 Euro notes. And that is not considering all she has in of shore accounts and everything her associates have stolen.
What is worst I think that all the judicial instruments to held them accountable have being destroyed. As it is the government has a firm grip on the justice system. The question would be if the independent judges take their revange after so many years of harassment by the gov't on the former officials.
@ 81 ElaineB
Apr 28th, 2014 - 10:18 pm - Link - Report abuse 0A lot of argy men I see over here have an appendage designed to satisfy the ladies: a big nose, very often with a scrubbing brush of a moustache under it.
Put’s a whole new meaning to “tickling your fancy”! :o)
82. When the gov't changes she'll either be dead or in jail. Hopefully with her disgusting son and drug addled daughter.
Apr 29th, 2014 - 12:28 am - Link - Report abuse 0CD, you really should try to get out of there while you still can. This may get very bad very quickly. Especially if the Ks see they're going to lose power.
Really bad really quickly. See Caracas.
Come to the USA. We have lots of jobs it is safe and a great place to raise a family. We do like hard working smart immigrants that don't try to game the system.
Here's Mendoza in the news:
Apr 29th, 2014 - 12:36 am - Link - Report abuse 0http://www.theage.com.au/world/australian-tourist-shot-dead-in-argentina-20140429-zr12m.html
You can be rest assured there will be severe repercussions due to this incident. This is the first in a very long time that someone has been killed in this park, and even longer that a tourist has been killed. In fact I don't recall ever that occurring.
Apr 29th, 2014 - 01:00 am - Link - Report abuse 0There is going to be significant fallout.
86 nostrils
Apr 29th, 2014 - 05:29 am - Link - Report abuse 0This is just the beginning Nostrils.
In another year, you'll be just like Venezuela.
50% inflation, climbing unemployment, no fuel, and a desperate populace.
Tourists don 't go there anymore - the locals rob and kill them.
@86 I am curious.
Apr 29th, 2014 - 10:40 am - Link - Report abuse 0'severe repercussions' Another lynching? Surely the murder will be investigated by the police and the law applied.
'significant fallout' What do you envisage?
Another 3000 layoffs in the auto industry. As I said last week this is just the first wave.
Apr 29th, 2014 - 11:39 am - Link - Report abuse 0Massive layoffs, rampant inflation, rampant crime
It is only going to get worse
as it gets cold and people are paying 8X more to heat their house and cook their food than they did last year.
Brr
88 ElaineB
Apr 29th, 2014 - 12:56 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“'significant fallout' What do you envisage?”
Tourists will be chastised and publicly shamed for shamelessly flaunting their personal wealth and antagonising the locals with their carefree attitudes.
@Cabezadura2
Apr 29th, 2014 - 01:30 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I think in Argentina the corruption is more galling but not necessarily worse when taken as a whole than in the UK .
We have big corruption in the UK. Politics in the UK now is just a facilitator for big business. All the main parties are virtually indistinguishable.
But at least its easier for us to get on in life whereas in Argentina those in power really try to stop the masses from being able to climb up the greasy pole. Extra grease longer pole. In the UK you can pay all your taxes and still make a profit. In Argentina virtually the only way to get ahead is to be corrupt whether you like it or not.
Is the CFK 'government' really any worse than any other for corruption or does it just seem like it because of their arrogance and sense of entitlement?
@90 When I was there last time something visitors were being constantly warned about was walking around with cameras on show. They were a prime target, apparently along with handbags. It seems this poor chap was killed for his camera.
Apr 29th, 2014 - 01:46 pm - Link - Report abuse 0It is not at Johannesburg levels of mugging or even Madrid level of pickpocketing but there is not doubt the local people (with the exception of TTT) know that Mendoza is getting ever more dangerous as the economy deteriorates.
91
Apr 29th, 2014 - 02:55 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I'm sure many government and state officials in Britain would have lost their jobs for far less stuff than what they do and happens in Argentina everyday.
Now it wasnt always as bad as this. The problem has become cultural and tolarated and ignored.
Just as Argentina every politician in the UK is a career politician and never had a private job in his life. The difference is perhaps that all the political class in Argentina has come from a militant left wing background in their early youth in University.
In UK politicians all do come from the same up tight liberal schools like Eaton, Cambridge, Oxford and make it straight to the State.
The difference is that Argentina's people is still mind blocked in the class wars and mentality of the 1930s and 1940s that has long ago being overcome in the rest of the Western world.
This is what makes Argentina fall for populism, stateism, and chauvinism in reiterated ocassions.
The politicians simply sell to the people what they want to hear. There was an attempet by some sectors in the 1990s to change the mindset of the people and make them understand that times have changed and that the world is moving on with out Argentina but they also inquiered in corruption and mismanagement and fell short of moving reforming the country.
CFK and her mob really wouldnt be tolerated for a minute in the UK. We'd seem them as uber grotesque pantomine politicians.
Apr 29th, 2014 - 03:26 pm - Link - Report abuse 0But then how did Blair get away with falsifying the threat of Iraq to Europe/the UK to start a phoney war which has ended in 100'000 of thousands dead and a country with no peaceful end in sight. Millions of us hate him and there he is 'the socialist' doing the multimillion pound corporate after dinner speaches and business consultancy.
Its complicated.
94
Apr 29th, 2014 - 03:37 pm - Link - Report abuse 0As an outsider I think your problem is that your politicall class bends over backwards to whatever Washington and Brussels say and demand. The other serius problem you have is political correctness and haven't quite figuered out what your role should be in the world since the fall of the old empire.
Russia is an example of a country that hasn't worked out its role in the world since the loss of its empire.
Apr 29th, 2014 - 08:54 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Not the UK.
I wish people would stop bandying about tired old cliches that have no foundation in fact.
Anglotino
Apr 29th, 2014 - 10:08 pm - Link - Report abuse 0So why did Blair suck up to Bush??? Why does Britain need to climb on to America's back into war and world affairs ?? And for to gain what??
With all due respect; This is realpolitiks and its not your strong anglotino and its a difficult concept for you to grasp. Say what you like about Russia but they are a assertive power and knows what it wants and why.
BTW
Apr 30th, 2014 - 07:27 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Ot seems that “Mendocinovino ” hails from Mendoza !!
Who else lives there ? ;-)
Our pal Nostrils !!!
http://en.mercopress.com/2014/04/22/new-queen-s-portrait-to-mark-her-88th-birthday?utm_source=email&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=aviso_comentarios#comments
Commenting for this story is now closed.
If you have a Facebook account, become a fan and comment on our Facebook Page!