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If EU dumps independent Scotland, 12 countries would be barred from its fishing waters

Friday, May 2nd 2014 - 08:42 UTC
Full article 133 comments

Scottish First Minister warned that 12 countries could be barred from his country’s waters and would not even be allowed to pass through to reach Norwegian waters if an independent Scotland was refused European Union (EU) membership. Read full article


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  • LEPRecon

    Firstly he isn't a Prime Minister he's a First Minister.

    Secondly it wasn't that long ago he was telling the Scottish public that EU membership was absolutely assured and nothing to worry about.

    Thirdly he sounds like a petulant child, not like a statesman, and trying to blackmail people usually backfires.

    Fourthly any vessel can traverse international waters and if an independent Scotland tried to prevent it they could be taken to the International Convention on the Laws of the Sea and be fined or face sanctions.

    If I were Scottish I'd be embarrassed by Salmonds petulant attitude.

    May 02nd, 2014 - 09:14 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • zathras

    Damn beat me to it.

    But yes he is the 1st Minister.

    Also just recently they were guaranteeing that Scotland would automatically enter the EU with their own currency.

    Although the EU officials made it clear that this was most unlikely, particularly as an independent Scotland would be required to join the Euro.

    May 02nd, 2014 - 10:04 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Mr Ed

    “Fourthly any vessel can traverse international waters and if an independent Scotland tried to prevent it they could be taken to the International Convention on the Laws of the Sea and be fined or face sanctions.”

    Or simply have its interfering vessel sunk by a transiting navy.

    Personally, I'd love to see the Scots leave, and if they leave the EU and Scots don't retain British citizenship, then Scots in the UK would be working illegally, barring the terms of separation permitting retention of British citizenship or a right to work in the remainder of the UK.

    May 02nd, 2014 - 11:22 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Conqueror

    @1 Beat me to it as well. So Salmond is going to deny “innocent passage” in contravention of UNCLOS? Wouldn't it be fun if “EU” navies were tasked with protecting “innocent passage”? Royal Navy frigates ramming scottish rowboats. What exactly does Salmond think he's got to “enforce” these threats? The UK has no obligation to “give” scotland any defence materials.
    “Gabby” Salmond is trying to save his “dream”. Can't join the EU. Can't have a currency union. Can't have “free movement”. Can't have “free trade”. Can't have use of UK organisations.

    May 02nd, 2014 - 11:30 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • yankeeboy

    He must know his dreams are going down in flames. That is why he is lashing out.

    May 02nd, 2014 - 12:10 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • CabezaDura2

    Apparently “everyone is desperate to come and do business in my own home country”, “we are resource rich country and everyone is desperate to come and pour billions of $ investment”. “We are going to be forever rich with our resources” “We are condemened to success” “If you dont have it my way then I'll take punishment retribution”.

    Where have I heard of this before ??

    May 02nd, 2014 - 12:18 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Keith York

    Could solve the Spanish fishing fleet problem I guess on another thread?

    May 02nd, 2014 - 12:54 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • GeoffWard2

    Scotland's area covered by its potential EEZ is much larger than that of England - largely because of the much closer proximity of adjacent countries and the 'mid-line' between England and them. This has always given Scotland much, much bigger fishing grounds than England.

    In spite of this, Mr Salmond is talking through his arse if he thinks he can stop transit of EU vessels through a Scottish EEZ.

    May 02nd, 2014 - 01:01 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Briton

    Alex Salmond
    wow fighting talk,
    did he name the 12

    May 02nd, 2014 - 01:10 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Condorito

    From what I gathered on the UKIP threads, Salmond is threatening what most of the English posters on Mercopress would love there government to do. No?

    May 02nd, 2014 - 01:49 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • paulcedron

    all he said was:
    “We have one of the largest national shares of Europe's total fishing grounds and 12 national fleets fish in our waters. The EU's fisheries policy would unravel without Scotland.”

    what it is true.

    he also said:
    “Scotland has fully 25% of Europe's offshore wind and tidal potential. We have ten per cent of the EU's wave potential. We have 60% of the EU's oil reserves. But our importance to the European Union stretches further.”

    no doubts scotland will remain as a eu member after their independence.

    May 02nd, 2014 - 02:32 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • CKurze30k

    Don't get me started. Scot here, I don't think Salmond's playing with a full deck of cards.

    Heck, the whole “indepenence” thing looks less like us taking our own path, and more about Salmond wanting his name in the history books. He doesn't care if it works or not - just that they spell his name right.

    I've seen several analyses of the independence plan - they've spent “their” oil money several times from what I've read, seeing it as an answer to all their problems.

    I'm voting “No” because I don't trust Salmond's “vision” of our future. We're better united as far as our defense and economy is concerned.

    We may differ in politics, but that's no reason to split up. That's why we should have separate Scottish and English parliaments, which would also end the Scottish MPs voting on England-only matters, a situation I think we can all agree is unacceptable.

    May 02nd, 2014 - 02:34 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Conqueror

    @8 a scottish EEZ? Do tell us about the Northern and Western Isles. “Automatically” scottish, are they? Are you assuming that the UK, not England, is going to be “nice”? Have you noticed that UK waters extend from the northern, eastern and western coasts of Northern Ireland? As usual, Salmond is making lots of assumptions.

    And if the UK isn't being “nice”, what is little scotland going to do against the Royal Navy and the Royal Air Force. It's “popular” at the moment to denigrate those two organisations. The Royal Navy has 98 vessels, 66 Royal Marine watercraft and 149 aircraft. The Royal Air Force has over a thousand aircraft. And what does scotland have to counteract these? Balloons, gliders, cabin cruisers, rowboats?
    @10 Then you are under a misapprehension. England has made no threats. The UK has made no threats. Most of the people of the UK want to be out of the EU. It's a corrupt, incompetent and power-hungry, selfish organisation. As members, the people of the UK have “rights” to be considered and taken into account. And the French impose the CAP that increases prices. And the spanish have a fishing fleet twice the size of the UK's and steal from UK waters. And the eastern europeans force their way into the UK to steal jobs, housing, benefits they haven't paid for. How about this for a “fair” reality. Bulgarian enters the UK to live. UK immediately bills Bulgaria for difference in wages and benefits. I haven't worked out the figures exactly, but suppose Bulgaria gets billed £500,000 for every immigrant to the UK. Check out the differences between Bulgaria and the UK. One 2+2 family costs Bulgaria £2 million!
    @11 You're as big a prat as he is!

    May 02nd, 2014 - 03:19 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ElaineB

    @12 I agree with everything you say.

    May 02nd, 2014 - 03:21 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • JollyGoodFun

    @12- well said Sir! I too am a Scot and my ancestors would be turning in their graves at the cowardice of the Yes voters as the union has brought, and will bring in future great wealth and benefit to Scotland. For people to turn their backs on great friends and allies makes them quite simply a Campbell.

    My family will be voting No!

    May 02nd, 2014 - 03:24 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • paulcedron

    “blablabla... what is little scotland going to do against the Royal Navy and the Royal Air Force.”
    and you, imbecile x1000, talk about prats?

    May 02nd, 2014 - 04:22 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Pugol-H

    Smoked Salmon strikes again, he does seem to be at best overplaying his hand somewhat.

    His view of things seems to be increasingly devolved from the reality, unfolding before his eyes.

    He is in effect, insisting/demanding that the rest of the UK & EU accept his view, regardless of who tells him that they actually don’t have to.

    @ 12 CKurze30k
    Hear, hear.

    @15 JollyGoodFun
    “a Campbell”, and what is wrong with fighting for English gold pray tell?

    Cipayo is probably the closest translation for the Argys.

    May 02nd, 2014 - 05:03 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Briton

    UNITED we stand,
    DIVIDED we fall,


    May 02nd, 2014 - 05:41 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Britworker

    I will be very glad when the referendum is finished and I really couldn't care less how it turns out anymore, as an English tax payer I have had enough of having to see the this blubber faced dick on my TV.
    The only place I want to see Salmond is on a Myocardial Infarction statistical report.

    May 02nd, 2014 - 07:29 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ChrisR

    Desperation it seems to me from old salmon face, but what's new in that?

    May 02nd, 2014 - 07:51 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • GeoffWard2

    If it goes independent Scotland can claim 8.4% of the military assets of the UK. This is the population proportion at the last census.

    As Scotland gets disproportionately more taxation allocation per person than the rest of the UK this 8.4% might reduce to

    May 02nd, 2014 - 08:06 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • mikey48

    What planet does this man salmond lives on.Once independance scotland comes,NATO/EU membership will be terminated.Taxes will rise,pensions will reduce/OAPs will be worse off,oil will dry up.So cannot rely oil revenue.

    May 02nd, 2014 - 09:32 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Troy Tempest

    16 Paulcedrone

    “blablabla... what is little scotland going to do against the Royal Navy and the Royal Air Force.”
    and you, imbecile x1000, talk about prats?”

    You're wasting our time.

    Instead, try reading this, carefully:

    Salmond: Scottish analogy - Scots share core ingredients with those Argentinians wanting Freedom for the Malvinas

    ”, a national dish of Scotland. A haggis is actually a large spherical sausage made of the liver, heart, and lungs of a sheep, all chopped and mixed with beef or mutton suet and oatmeal and seasoned with onion, cayenne pepper, and other spices. The mixture is packed into a sheep’s stomach and boiled. Haggis is usually accompanied by turnips and mashed potatoes; Scotch whisky is customarily drunk with it.

    Haggis is served on Burns Night (January 25, the birthday of the poet Robert Burns, who wrote “Ode to a Haggis”) and at the Scottish New Year’s celebration Hogmanay, when it is ceremonially presented to the accompaniment of bagpipes.”

    May 02nd, 2014 - 10:47 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • paulcedron

    23 toy
    and what the fuck has malvinas got to do with this topic?
    you are obsessed with the islets.

    guess you share the same taste for that kind of food with the scots, don´t you?
    in the end all you have to eat are sheeps.
    you should be vegetarian if you had vegetables in the islets.

    May 02nd, 2014 - 11:19 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • A_Voice

    are you having a larff....?
    WTF is an English tax payer...?
    ...are you talking about council tax or did you mean you are a UK tax payer...?
    It appears that you don't understand how taxation works in the UK.........ergo.....

    Is there something curiously wonderful about eating cows, chickens or pigs rather than lamb or sheep...?
    ...or am I missing something....

    May 03rd, 2014 - 01:10 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • JollyGoodFun

    @17 - the reference to the Campbells is in that they had a duty to protect their guests of their hospitality.

    They were cowards and betrayed that trust, as the Yes voters do to their fellow Brits. The Union has ensured Scotland has prospered over history, and now that times are a little tougher the yes voters wish to screw the Welsh and Northern Irish, in my opinion, as the English economy is and will continue to be in good shape.
    My ancestors would be turning in their graves that supposed Fellow Scots can take through the ages and then turn and run when it is a little more difficult.

    I hope that clears things up a little.

    May 03rd, 2014 - 01:29 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Troy Tempest

    24 Pablo-nino
    “...and what the fuck has malvinas got to do with this topic?”

    read again,
    “Salmond: Scottish analogy - Scots share core ingredients with those Argentinians wanting Freedom for the Malvinas”

    - Argentinians have absolutely nothing to do with “Freedom” for the Islands, and neither does Salmond's Scottish Independence bid.

    Perhaps I didn't waste your time, like you waste ours - you had a chance to educate yourself about a traditional Scottish dish.

    It's probably the only thing you got out of this thread.

    May 03rd, 2014 - 01:43 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • paulcedron

    27 toy
    i waste your time?
    you are the bore who insists in talking to me.

    25 a voice
    you are right.
    anyway, guess you are missing something.
    read the previous posts.

    May 03rd, 2014 - 01:59 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • A_Voice

    Look at all the supposed Scots coming out of the woodwork and condemning Scottish Independence .....

    Yeah right....remind me again how many of you actually live in Scotland....and don't pretend either...

    Nothing to do with you wannabes.....keep your nose out....the vote is for people that LIVE in Scotland.....

    Salmond is many things....stupid is not one of is a well known fact that he can run rings round most political speakers and is therefore avoided in open debate....
    His comments have obviously been taken out of context and parts of the speech isolated to appear controversial....It's what opponents and media do....doh!
    His point is that Scotland is already so intricately tied to the EU that it wouldn't be in the EU's interest to exclude it and it isn't the liability of some of the EU's members...

    May 03rd, 2014 - 09:49 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • GeoffWard2

    #29 '....the vote is for people that LIVE in Scotland.....'

    Is it?
    And if so, why should this be so?

    The UNITED KINGDOM has a number of nations who would by powerfully affected if one of their united number pulls out ... do you not think that they should be able to have a say about the destruction of a unity that has taken centuries to coalesce?

    And Scotland is NOT intrinsically tied to the EU; neither is England, Wales or Northern Ireland. The only body tied to the EU is the United Kingdom ... which will no longer exist if Scotland is allowed to destroy it. So there are many, many reasons why ALL the countries which make up the UK should have a Powerful say in the cecession of one member state.

    It is akin to some Eastern European state deciding to split itself up and give big bits of itself to another nation.

    May 03rd, 2014 - 10:16 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Clyde15

    As a self-styled expert on military, political matters and fisheries, see this.
    It seems to differ somewhat from your expert opinion. Are you in charge of re writing EEZ's ?


    May 03rd, 2014 - 12:20 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Troy Tempest

    30 Geoff

    A reminder that A_Voice is NOT Scottish or English - so his viewpoint does not matter, regardless of how righteously indignant he paints himself.

    A_Voice is the ultimate Scottish “Wannabe”, himself

    May 03rd, 2014 - 02:21 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Pugol-H

    @26 JollyGoodFun
    Ahhh yes, Glen Coe, I get you now, apologies I thought it was a reference to Culloden.

    @29 A_Voice
    Get real Mc Voice.

    It may well not be in the EU’s interests, in some respects, to exclude Scotland.
    However that is how the EU is currently set up and works, and that is what is going to happen, if you become independent.

    Unless you can get all 28 to change the rules (probably involve treaty changes at the very least), before independence, you will be taking your place in the queue of countries waiting to join.

    On whatever terms they can get.

    Do you really think you can get such an agreement, in any time scale?

    As for the inevitable breaking of the “intricate ties” that is going to hurt you guys an awful lot more than it will the rest of the EU, who will barely notice, if at all.

    @30 GeoffWard2
    The only military assets that become Scottish are the buildings and the bases, hardware, kit, people and production capacity all go south. Scots serving in the UK military will probably get an option to transfer to the new Scottish military.

    The general view in England is that it will make little difference to us either way. Except there would be no more Labour governments in the foreseeable future, whether that would be good or bad thing depends, of course, on your political persuasion.

    If Scotland stays in, then English matters English votes, will have to happen at Westminster. Also the distribution of spending will have to be “looked into”.

    And should the question of a referendum arise again, then yes there would have to be a vote in England at least, if not the other countries as well.

    May 03rd, 2014 - 03:40 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Clyde15

    “hardware, kit, people and production capacity all go south”
    Could you direct me to where it has been decided-not by C- that this will be the case ?
    If this is the case, do you want all the radioactive material that the UK military has dumped in Scotland. 30 tons of depleted uranium shells in the Solway Firth, radioactive materials coming to the surface around Dalgety Bay, and around Dounreay, now radioactive rubbish at Rosyth.
    Seven rusting nuclear subs. at Rosyth.
    I think they should be transferred to London in the event of a Scottish YES vote. After all, they are part of the UK hardware and kit to which you say we have NO entitlement. We don't want to deprive you of your rightful ownership as it would not belong to us.
    We would not need any defence forces as who would dare attack us with such a ring of radiation.

    May 03rd, 2014 - 04:27 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Pugol-H

    @34 Clyde15
    “This” is standard operating procedure, and has been done many times before.

    I don’t say you have “NO entitlement”, no doubt a transfer of certain kit/capability/personnel to the new Scottish Defence forces will form part of an overall deal. We assume you’ll take cash for your share of the (working) nuclear subs.

    No doubt aspects like “environmental clean-up” would also form part of the negotiations on independence, as would many other things, such as Scotland’s share of the national debt.

    Although technically speaking as this contamination happened while Scotland was still part of the UK, Scotland also has a responsibility here.

    Stuff will start moving south the day after a yes vote, negotiations may produce a deal where some bases stay open, however the working assumption will be to move, everything.

    May 03rd, 2014 - 05:38 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • A_Voice

    ...thank you, thank you kind sirs for your comments....
    ....interesting quote here...

    “Defence Secretary Philip Hammond said that relocating Trident
    would cost billions and take many years. Admiral Lord West added that moving the nuclear armaments depot from Coulport would be a “huge, huge complex operation”

    I might just add, for all those.....”But I'm a Scot but don't live in Scotland”...woe is me....the fate of your country is in my hands and ultimately also the fate of the UK...
    ....I can be bought and I'm open to offers......;-)))

    May 03rd, 2014 - 06:25 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Pugol-H

    Yep, there would be some big spending involved in the move south, creating a lot of hi-tech construction work in other parts of the UK, as well as the jobs that move as a result of the re-deployment.

    However Scots wishing to re-locate with their jobs, would probably be looked on favourably in their applications for residence/work permits, as commonwealth citizens.

    May 03rd, 2014 - 06:48 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • A_Voice

    Let me make it clear for those that appear not to understand the “UK stance on Scottish Independence”...
    All Scots will remain British and their children will remain British only Scottish children born after the date of Independence...which BTW is NOT the date of the referendum....will not be British..... your point about work permits is irrelevant for a generation....when those children are eligible to work.....
    This is not my opinion it is a Fact and has been verified by the UK Govt....

    May 03rd, 2014 - 07:15 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • GeoffWard2

    P-H #37
    You assume that Scotland will be invited to be, and will be accepted, as part of the Commonwealth.

    In any case, Scots mercenaries should be welcome to be an integral part of the 'non-UK' armed forces ... a bit like the Free French and Polish Air Force who fought from Britain and alongside the British in WWII.

    May 03rd, 2014 - 07:33 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Clyde15

    Surely there is NO precedent in this case as the break up of the UK is a new ball game. It's not like moving from bases in Aden, Cyprus, Malta etc.
    Would the United Kingdom still exist if Scotland seceded ? Would it change it's legal status. I don't know. It would need a constitutional lawyer to answer that one. Not the panel of “experts” appearing on this forum - me included.
    So, we would have a responsibility to clean up the mess but no entitlement to any of the equipment for which we part paid ?

    May 03rd, 2014 - 07:42 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Briton

    The ref should be cancelled,

    But if its bloggers replies that interest you,
    Read this you might find it interesting. you may not..

    The future of British warship construction

    What's the future for British warship construction??

    don’t be shy now….

    May 03rd, 2014 - 07:49 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Clyde15

    You assume that Scotland will be invited to be, and will be accepted, as part of the Commonwealth.

    So, N.Ireland, Wales, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, South Africa and India would reject a Scottish bid to remain in the Commonwealth. ?
    From the rhetoric here, the only country likely to vote against is England ! Maybe the rest would vote Scotland in and England out !

    May 03rd, 2014 - 08:36 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Think


    May 03rd, 2014 - 09:03 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Briton

    Newspapers change their mind like they change their headlines,

    May 04th, 2014 - 09:24 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Be serious

    Alex the Fish is a complete codpiece.
    Bit like Voicedoverthink.
    Independence??? Forget it or come up with a more reasoned argument.

    May 04th, 2014 - 11:21 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Pugol-H

    @38 A_Voice
    Care to tell us where this has been verified?

    As ultimately these thing would have to be agreed in the negotiations, and
    even if it were the position going into the negotiations, it may not be the result of the negotiations.

    @39 GeoffWard2
    I’m sure Her Maj can swing a commonwealth membership for them.

    Absolutely, the Ghurkhas seem to manage fine.

    @40 Clyde15
    I’ll say it again:

    “I don’t say you have “NO entitlement”, no doubt a transfer of certain kit/capability/personnel to the new Scottish Defence forces will form part of an overall deal.”

    Once the transfer items are decided, it will be exactly like the pull-out from Aden or Malta, which is the only way it can be.

    Personally I don’t hold out much hope from negotiations, Salmon is just not any kind of a negotiator, as can clearly be seen from his pronouncements on Sterling.

    He’s gone from telling the rest of the UK that they have to accept a currency union with Scotland, as “its best for them”, despite what all the money men down here say, not to mention what happened to the Euro, to threatening that it’s an “asset” he’s entitled to, or he’s won’t accept any liabilities if he can’t have it.

    This is not a negotiating position, this is crass stupidity.

    At no point has he ever considered asking to use the Pound, this I firmly believe would have been given very serious consideration, although that’s not to say it would then have happened.

    But you get my point.

    May 04th, 2014 - 02:15 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Conqueror

    @21 Really? On what basis? Have you read any international law? Do tell us what “entitlement” a country in association has of the assets of the umbrella state. Little scotland has been “free” for over 300 years. How come it has its own law? Little scotland “claiming” 8.4% of UK defence assets has no more credibility than argieland claiming the Falkland Islands. And what is little scotland going to do about it? Attack? Try reality. Little scotland will get what it's given. It's already been told it can't have a number of things Salmond thought he could have.
    @25 Quiet, dumbo. Grown-ups are talking. Argies aren't included.
    @29 Ah hah. A slob.....sorry, scot. A nothing. All mouth and no trousers. Good for cannon fodder and sandbags and not much more!

    Come “independence”, scotland is OUT of the EU. That's law. Never mind what fishface wants. The UK has shown the way. NO currency union. NO free movement. NO free trade. NO dual citizenship. NO, NO, NO! Quite possibly NO Orkneys and NO Shetlands.
    @31 What a pillock. When have I ever said I was an expert? I consider an “ex-spurt” to be a has-been under pressure. Much like yourself. All I have ever done is to research the FACTS and use LOGIC. Being scottish you won't be familiar with either of those terms but you can look them up. “Scottish Seas” an opinion by the scottish government. Got anything reliable or reputable?
    @34 Want to take a try at international law? Since you're an obvious SNP-supporting clown, I'm not going to help you. What has happened when you were part of the UK is neither here nor there. Did you object at the time? Too busy being protected? You've had plenty from the UK over the years. Still haven't repaid your loan plus interest, I see. £2 quadrillion! Don't worry about the radioactivity. Over time, you might mutate into something intelligent.
    @36 I plan to detonate RNAS Coulport. “Buy” that!

    May 04th, 2014 - 03:54 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • mikey48

    What planet does this salmond man lives on,he will have no navy,he wont have any RAF,he will only have token army of scottish regiments.He will not have the english pound,he wont have the entitlement of englands help in pensions and tax reliefs.He wont have EU and NATO membership.So what disaster is salmond leading to scottish death.Cuckoo land.

    May 04th, 2014 - 04:34 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Clyde15

    It was worth doing that post to see the usual vitriolic reaction from little Englander. I am glad that you put it so succinctly. It lets the rest of us see what an embittered twat that you are..

    scot. A nothing. All mouth and no trousers. Good for cannon fodder and sandbags and not much more!
    So that is /was your opinion of the Scot's Guards at Tumbledown.
    Falkland Islanders please take note - he is YOUR champion.

    What a pillock. When have I ever said I was an expert?
    You obviously do not understand or recognise irony .
    You keep quoting about our mighty armed forces without a bloody clue how they could be effectively deployed and sustained on an attack on ARGENTINA.....which will never happen OR where we would get the finance to venture such a hair brained scheme OR world opinion.
    Please come out of the 19th century into the 21st.

    Just for the record, I am not a supporter of the SNP and never have been.
    I see also that YOU have unilaterally removed Scotland from the UK.
    Have you had the courtesy to inform HM Queen Elizabeth on your action ? I am sure that this will come as a surprise to her.
    Prince Charles was in Ayr yesterday in the uniform of Colonel - in - Chief of the Ayrshire Yeomanry. He did not seem to know this either !

    “You've had plenty from the UK over the years. ” ....and you have taken plenty from us.

    your loan plus interest, I see. £2 quadrillion.
    When the English property boom goes tits up again we will repay the then current value of the loan ..about £1 .76p

    Over time, you might mutate into something intelligent. You mean MORE INTELLIGENT.

    For you I am afraid it's regression back to a primordial amoeba---sorry that is insulting an amoeba

    You plan to detonate Coulport ? Do you intend to come up an fart into the bunkers ? You probably could muster up enough gas as is evidenced by your postings.

    To be honest, I don't think we would need much kit. No destroyers, carriers or tanks. No delusions of world power !

    May 04th, 2014 - 05:24 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Briton

    One is four months away,
    and no effort has been made to move anything south,
    if they thought it would happen, they would have moved by now,

    eye say, let the French and Germans have their little union,
    and you stay with this little union..

    May 04th, 2014 - 05:49 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Clyde15

    I am not and have not been an advocate for the break up of the UK but when I hear the vitriolic crap from you- know- who and others I wonder if I want to be associated with people like that.
    For over a 150 years I have had relations and forebears serving under the Union Flag and many of them dying in their country's defense -not Scotland - but the UK. I am understandably pissed of when a mindless troll tells me that they were worth nothing !

    My brother, who served in Coastal Command, during the cold war, helping to protect the UK from Soviet submarines, died a week ago.
    His widow asked me to look out all his RAF momentos to donate to the RAF museum. I had his best blues, his caterpillar club badge and his log book. The log book told of 22 hour flights in a Shackleton to Jan Mayen land shadowing the soviet fleets, mercy missions to drop supplies to ships at sea, showing the flag in Central America to deter Guatemalan designs on Belize and other OHMS missions and deployments.
    He and his squadron had the guts to threaten mutiny when they were going to be deployed to bomb Kenyan villages as reprisals during the Mau Mau campaign. This was quietly dropped. To risk court martial took guts but the idiot who proposed this action was quietly shunted off his post.
    To hear from a cowardly worthless troll that his service was worth nothing makes my blood boil. I am normally a peaceable individual who shuns violence but my ancestors could fairly be called a crowd of murderous Highlanders who enjoyed violence. I feel a genetic urge calling on me to continue in their historical mould against those who insult mine.. However, I am sure that reason will prevail and that I think no more of him but a dog's turd I could have stepped on.

    May 04th, 2014 - 07:06 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Troy Tempest

    51 Clyde

    You have every right to be angry at that idiot!

    For what it's worth, everybody recognises him for what he is, and have stopped listening to his ravings.

    Condolences to you. Your brother sounds like a very honourable man, and an example of everything moral and correct.

    May 04th, 2014 - 07:22 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ChrisR

    @ 51 Clyde15

    My condolences to you, your sister-in-law and the remainder of your family in your loss.

    May 04th, 2014 - 09:50 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • JollyGoodFun

    @51- you clearly come from a courageous and noble family. I and many other Brits solute you Sir!

    It is an absolute shame that some trolls can attempt to discredit the worth of people who really contribute to the not onl the security and prosperity of their nations but to that of the wider international community too.

    Your brother has achieved great things and should be remembered always.

    May 04th, 2014 - 11:52 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • A_Voice

    Sorry for your loss's hard losing family.
    Sounds like your brother had a full and exciting life.....Scots wha hae!

    May 05th, 2014 - 10:25 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • lsolde

    @51 Clyde15,
    You have my support too, Clyde.
    l know l sometimes get irate with Argentine trolls, so l am not a paragon of virtue either.
    British trolls are just as obnoxious.
    Keep calm, Clyde15.

    May 05th, 2014 - 10:30 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Pugol-H

    @49 Clyde15
    Exactly, given successful negotiations or not, I am sure the new Scottish military will be set up and equipped to be able to perform the (let’s face it “rather limited”) role assigned by the new Scot Gov.

    It would be very much in our interest to do so.

    I wouldn’t concern yourself too much with Conc’s remarks (which I disassociate myself from completely), it’s somewhat unlikely that they will let him get his finger on the nuclear trigger, strangely enough.

    My farther served in Costal Command for the second half of the war. His photos of that time show men of many nations, including Scots, serving the common cause.

    Going through them with him, he pointed people out, named them and often followed by saying “he was killed over Holland or Norway, a week or a month later”.

    The name I always remembered was “Wee Johnny Johnson” (guess where from), killed over the North Sea a week later.

    My condolences to you and your family.

    May 05th, 2014 - 12:52 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • knarfw

    Condolences on your loss Clyde.

    Per Ardua ad Astra

    May 05th, 2014 - 02:24 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • The_Truth_shall_B_Trolld

    “Family Feud”.

    The problem with the ENGLISH, is they never accept that other people may have different views and disagree with them.

    May 05th, 2014 - 03:20 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Captain Poppy

    Ahhhhhh.......there you are voice. Still claiming to own real estate in Trout Run Pennsylvania? Or did you recently sell it?

    May 05th, 2014 - 04:00 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Troy Tempest


    Your brother is indeed a prime example of the close bond and shared values and causes ,by all the peoples of the United Kingdom.

    It would be everyone's loss if that did not continue.

    May 05th, 2014 - 04:15 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Clyde15

    Thank you for your kind comments BUT I was only trying to show that we all pulled together for a common cause and ALL members of HM Forces were equally valued regardless of their origin.
    I include Fijians, Malawians and other Commonwealth troops currently serving in various regiments.
    I worked with colleagues who had been dropped at Arnhem, fought at Kohima and Imphal, El Alamein, D-Day, Korea and Malaya, the Murnmansk convoys and escort duties on Frigates and Corvettes.
    Others flew Lancasters, Liberators, Spitfires, Mosquitos, Swordfish and Lysanders . All were Scots and fought for the UK and kept in touch with their English mates at reunions even when they were old men and could hardly travel. It sounds corny but they were a “band of brothers” looking out for each other REGARDLESS of origin.

    I could just as easily insert Argentinians for English in your facile missive. In fact I could insert any nationality with equal validity.
    Anyway, you, as a juvenile have not had enough experience to make such statements as you can only talk from second hand experience.

    May 05th, 2014 - 04:25 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Pugol-H

    @59 Toby Troll
    You’ve never been to England, don’t know any English people and never met any.

    You will understand that we regard you’re views as at best, singularly ill-informed, at worst gibberish.

    Try to remember that the Scots have lived next to us for a millennia and a half.

    May 05th, 2014 - 04:44 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Troy Tempest

    60 Poppy

    When do you get the results from your Title Search of Trout Run properties?

    Looking forward to seeing if there is a Señor Dover, or a Señor Voice from Glasgow or Chubut, or Denmark???

    May 05th, 2014 - 05:00 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Captain Poppy

    Well....funny you should ask. I am hoping for Voice to appear.

    May 05th, 2014 - 05:31 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Troy Tempest

    He won't show.

    Trout aren't the only thing 'running'


    May 05th, 2014 - 06:15 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Briton

    51 Clyde15
    We both know where we stand, and both are unionist,

    Yes there are some bloody minded twits around, Scottish, welsh, Irish, English , and Argies,

    But we both know there is no excuse for some of the erratic insults that they throw,
    Thank god they are just a minority,

    As an amateur genealogist im well aware of how the uk people mix from place to place, that’s why most compare the 1881 census, as one of the biggest movements of uk citizens,

    We are all in this together, and will benefit or lose it, whatever comes our way.
    [- I say all together, except Cameron and his wealthy cohorts -]
    Thank for being part of us..


    May 05th, 2014 - 06:36 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Think

    SCOTS..., do please remember...
    Many a good Scot has given his LIFE for a FREE SCOTLAND...
    All YOU have to do is vote “YES” on Thursday 18 September 2014...

    May 05th, 2014 - 07:17 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Briton

    And many A good brit, has given their life for a FREE FALKLANDS.

    all CFK has to do is get lost and give them peace ..

    May 05th, 2014 - 07:27 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Clyde15

    Yes and the last one was probably in the 18th century.

    We don't need any advice from you !

    May 05th, 2014 - 08:48 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • lsolde

    @68 Think,
    Will that float your boat, if Scotland votes to become an independent country?
    Do you somehow think that the rest of the UK, specifically England, will be devastated, if that happens?
    Then you will enjoy England's supposed discomfiture? Yes?
    You are a moron, Think.
    You must hate us a lot & its got nothing to do with our current dispute with Argentina.
    You only side with Argentina because we are in dispute with them.
    lf we were in dispute with, for example Zambia, you would side with Zambia, Yes, no, maybe?
    Care to tell us all on here why you hate us so much?
    Come on Think, this is your moment of glory.
    Don't blow it.
    We await your startling revelations with bated breath.

    May 05th, 2014 - 09:47 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • The_Truth_shall_B_Trolld

    Don't know about Think, but in my case it is the same reason as to why you loath us: you attacked us belligerently multiple times in our history.

    May 05th, 2014 - 10:24 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Think

    (70) Clyde15
    You say...:
    “ Yes and the last one was probably in the 18th century.”
    I say...:
    300 years already... High time to claim your Country back, dont you Think?

    You say further...:
    “We don't need any advice from you!”
    I say...:
    Don't worry my dear Scot............. It's completely free of charge ;-)

    (71) lsolde, chocolate muffin...
    As a matter of fact, I like the Engrish...
    In their propper place...

    May 05th, 2014 - 10:53 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Baguamarsbar

    Clyde15 Im so sorry for your loss. You must be so proud of your brother, their must be a lot of Kenyans living today who have no idea your brother and his comrades saved them and there family's from being bombed because your brother had the courage and honour to do what was right not what was easy! No “I was just following orders” there. God bless him, not many men can say they saved even one life let alone whole villages.

    May 06th, 2014 - 03:21 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Clyde15

    How can I claim back something I have never lost ?

    Things offered free of charge are usually worthless .....such as your advice.

    May 06th, 2014 - 10:08 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • lsolde

    @73 Think,
    And l could like the Argentines, IF they would stay in their proper(one p, Think) place, Argentina & stop making ridiculous claims on other people's land.

    May 06th, 2014 - 10:41 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Briton

    The argies are trying to divide us,

    wont work,
    good news for us-
    bad news for you .lol

    May 06th, 2014 - 11:05 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • GeoffWard2

    I'm thinking if the rest of the United Kingdom should have a say over the Scottish independence situation.

    If it were Alaska wanting to go back to being part of Russia, do you think that the USA would sit on the sidelines and passively just allow it to happen?
    No, and neither should England, etc.

    May 06th, 2014 - 11:06 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Briton

    Mr salmon thinks it is for them , and them only,

    apparently more than 800.000 thousand scots in the rest of the uk, and or in the forces are not allowed to vote,
    but thousands of resident immigrants [no insult intended ]
    are allowed to vote.

    will just hope it backfires on him, and September proved our unity ...
    Justa thought..

    May 06th, 2014 - 11:39 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Pugol-H

    @68 Think

    Arm the Mapuche!!!

    One Créole Planter, one bullet.

    @72 Toby
    This is just not true, as you must know well by now.

    @78 GeoffWard2
    Scotland entered the Union freely (by the standards of the time), and is free to choose to leave.

    We have an opinion, but it is ultimately for them to decide.

    What Mr Salmon is finding out, is that he is not free to decide the terms and conditions by which they are in or out, of either the UK or EU or some other things like NATO.

    As I said before though, if this comes around again, then there probably will have to be some sort consultation of the people in the rest of the UK.

    May 06th, 2014 - 04:35 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • GeoffWard2

    The (Scottish) British Consul in Bahia is a friend of mine. She is unable to vote on the future of her country.

    Roma gypsies from Romania and recently come to Scotland can vote.

    Can anybody explain the sense of this?

    May 06th, 2014 - 07:28 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • A_Voice

    How is it self determination if the rest of the UK got to vote....
    How about the whole of the UK voting on whether the British Falklanders should be part of Britain.....
    The whole of Spain voting whether Catalonia has a right to self determination.....
    ....and why should ex-pats have a right to determine the future of a country they abandoned and no longer reside in....
    Haha....Keep your nose out tax evading Sean's feck all to do with you...
    ...and hahaha....Alan Cumming bought a flat in Edinburgh so he could vote....his main residence is New York.....his name had to come of the Electoral roll....No vote for you either.....

    Sell you my Vote....Cummings.....any offers, how about the 80 grand you spent on the flat....what a Edinburgh, must be a bedsit....

    May 06th, 2014 - 07:29 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Briton

    How about the whole of the UK voting on whether the British Falklanders should be part of Britain

    it might just shut CFK up..

    May 06th, 2014 - 07:34 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Captain Poppy

    Voice.....I've been giving some thought to the property you claimed own in Pennsylvania. I am sure I got it wrong as Trout Run and/or Lycoming Country. That was Pennsylvania....correct?

    May 06th, 2014 - 08:44 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Think

    ( 81) GeoffWard2

    You say...:
    ”The (Scottish) British Consul in Bahia is a friend of mine. She is unable to vote on the future of her country.
    Roma gypsies from Romania and recently come to Scotland can vote.
    Can anybody explain the sense of this?”

    I say...:
    Well.... That's the way things work in Ol' Blighty,lad...
    But you can act on it !!!
    Sign the petition ;-)))

    May 06th, 2014 - 08:49 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • A_Voice

    It's Lycoming County Pops, not Country.....
    ...and there is only one in the US and that is in far as I know.....
    What are you up to Pops....I'm beginning to get worried, you sound like you have something to say...
    Have you found that it...?
    ...and if not...don't even think of trying to trick me into giving more info, someone has been clueing you up on what to ask.....
    You are are a Yank remember.....the day I get hoodwinked by a Yank is the day I've turned senile....;-)

    May 07th, 2014 - 12:57 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Captain Poppy

    You own nothing in Lycoming .........maybe back in Scotland........nothing in Trout Run. Unless it is deeded in an American who lives in Lycoming County.
    Tell whatever story you feel you need. With exception of the 501c's and major own nothing. What......I're the mining company........oh I own stock in Verizon so you own real estate through Verizon.
    Stick to the highlands.

    You have to own property there to be found there. Your story goes no where.

    May 07th, 2014 - 01:21 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Baguamarsbar

    I also think that only Scotland itself should vote on staying in UK or not, it's their future. Either way it would not have much of an negative economic effect on the rest of us. If they go then I shall toast them good luck and hope that it will be amicable. If they stay I will be very happy about it, no split in the British family.

    Also do you think salmonds lying, threatening and bullying approach are giving Scotland a bad image beyond the UK? He strikes me as a sort of expression of Scottish angry negativity. I think it's valid for Scotland to consider its national direction, but having this bloke at the centre of it just brings the worst out in people and in the debate generally, this must muddy the thinking of all involved making it harder to get the best decision.

    May 07th, 2014 - 02:23 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • GeoffWard2

    Who can vote in the Scottish referendum?

    ... People who can vote in Scottish Parliamentary and local government elections, and all children over 16.

    The following groups can vote in the referendum:

    * British citizens (or 'Subjects', as we say in the UK) resident in Scotland.

    * Commonwealth citizens resident in Scotland who have leave to remain in the UK.

    * Citizens of the Republic of Ireland and other EU countries resident in Scotland.

    * Members of the House of Lords who live in Scotland.

    * Service personnel serving in the UK or overseas with the armed forces who are registered to vote in Scotland.

    * Crown personnel serving outside the UK with HM Government who are registered to vote in Scotland.

    The key difference from normal voting arrangements is that the minimum age for voting in the referendum will be *16* instead of 18.

    This means that children who are 15 now, but who will be 16 years old by 18 September 2014, and are otherwise eligible, can vote.

    May 07th, 2014 - 11:11 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Islander1

    Think- As far as I am aware the English do live in and reside in England(some in N.Ireland,Wales and Scotland of course) the only ones overseas in other countries are either on service employed by London(eg military or diplomatic) or working for private commercial companies overseas. Plus I guess some now residing in other countries of their own free will who have not yet qualified for citizenship of that country.

    May 07th, 2014 - 12:24 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Briton

    September will answer all your questions and doubts..

    May 07th, 2014 - 12:56 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Pugol-H

    @81 GeoffWard2
    Well at least the people who, by and large, have to live with the decision, get to make the decision.

    The Romanians for example, could find themselves as EU citizens, in a non EU country, which has no obligation to let them stay. They could end up deported.

    A fate unlikely to happen to your friend.

    @82 A_Voice
    It’s self-determination because it allows the other countries to decide if they wish to continue in a union with Scotland.

    If this does come around again, the question would have to be asked both ways.

    May 07th, 2014 - 05:05 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • A_Voice

    87 you have nothing...had me worried for a little while there.......
    Let me teach you all the things you didn't know about the country you live in...

    Do you think, when my deeds were registered in the County that I had to give information pertaining to my country of origin...?...NO

    Do you think when I purchased the property and I sat with my attorney across the table from the sellers, to sign the papers that I had to show my passport of country of origin...?...NO
    Do you think that the property details went down as my main and only did, because it was my main and only address in the States.....;-)

    I have looked at my details and as far as anyone is concerned I appear as an American citizen.....nothing stands out as extraordinary.....
    You are wasting your have maybe a 180 -1 chance of guessing it.....
    What was known between my attorney and myself didn't find it's way the the wasn't required.
    That's how it works...but then again, how could you possibly know, you have never been in my position and couldn't know what is and isn't required......

    So stop pretending that you could possibly know from accessing records whether I have or have not a property there.....

    Don't be so upset...if you read Mr.Think's link @43 you will see that the almost half a million English voters residing in Scotland could hold the key to winning the referendum.....As their vote is a given......

    May 07th, 2014 - 05:16 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Captain Poppy

    Lie to yourself as well. That in itself is far worse than lying to the other. Beside a being a menial, pompous bore, you are also a is most here so you are in good company. I think someone once referred to you as educated as a Brit, but not quite a Brit......close but no cigar. Shall I send you a Partagas or a Monte Cristo?

    May 07th, 2014 - 06:13 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • A_Voice

    You are the bore don't can barely write, you know sh!t all about the larger world...
    Even your parochial knowledge of the US is limited, you know nothing about buying property..or how Counties deal with property I proved with the previous post.
    WTF do you know Pops....?
    You have never been able to prove anything....I have given you details, even the layout of certain commercial establishments in the area that I know.....
    Details that are not available on the Net....
    Is it because you couldn't possibly conceive of owning property in ..say Europe that you think people can't own property in the US......
    Are you poor that it.....?
    I read you quibbling about paying 150 dollars a night for a hotel on the other thread....that's like a hundred quid Pops...that would only get you Holiday Inn Express in the UK...not even Holiday Inn let alone a decent hotel....
    You couldn't afford to visit usual with Yanks...they always play the bigshot and in reality, I have found they can't afford sh!t...everything is on credit...mortgaged up to the hilt and think they are living the American dream....

    I can tell you straight Pops...the property in the US is a cabin as far as I'm concerned it is immaterial to me...I'll get there when I can....
    BTW it was property number 7 no big deal...
    You can believe what I say or not...I don't give a sh!t....unlike Yanks I have no reason to exaggerate or lie....

    May 07th, 2014 - 06:38 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Captain Poppy

    Impressive when I can make you write so much drivel. Is that the best you can sling? No wonder the Brits will not accept you as one of their on. The reason is plain and simple just look in the mirror. from your extensive intellect you tell everyone, I really expected more.
    Psychoanalyst write about people like you and why the feel the need to put others down. I assume that is what you are trying to do.
    You have a serious confidence issue. Does it stem from the Brits outcasting you?

    Property#7 199 Truman Street you say.......sure.

    Maybe is you beg the British and kiss they asses, maybe.....just maybe they will treat you like a subject. In the mean time, work on your ego and confidence, your parents must have been abusive to you.

    May 07th, 2014 - 07:45 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • A_Voice

    ...So Pops....
    Oh..I forgot, you do read...Dean Koontz...;-)
    Can barely write.....
    ...“the Brits will not accept you as one of their on”...;-)
    ..“look in the mirror. from your ”...;-)
    ...“and why the feel the need ”...;-)
    ...“Maybe is you beg ”
    For goodness sake this was only one post......
    ...ever thought about reading you post before sending it.....

    I've got a hotel range that might suit you...Premier Inn...the drawback with that one you will probably bump into Lenny Henry.....
    ...probably need to see the Brit advertising campaign to get that one....

    You started with the insults can give, but not take it... I see....

    May 07th, 2014 - 08:09 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Captain Poppy

    Dean is enjoyable.....but really .....Mckeon is it? I fancy Nelsen DeMille myself. Jump on my lack of typing need to confidence lift. Is mom and dad still alive? Maybe you three can have a heart to heart? Is it their fault you are not true Brit?

    I am truly disappointed that is the best you can post is my typing. Oh.....and my bad. I did not mean Truman Street........State Rt 973 for property#7.

    Hurry voice......I am waiting for you next post!!!!

    May 07th, 2014 - 08:16 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • A_Voice

    To tell you the truth..I'm disappointed in you Pops....
    For months I have refrained from insulting you at all.
    Then out of the blue for no apparent reason you start insulting me....
    ...I thought you were having fun trying to find me...
    I am there...that's for sure, my details are there for viewing with all the clues I have given...I for one would have narrowed it down to a probable certainty...

    I thought we were pals....
    I could describe the inside of the Steam Valley Restaurant or Bittners General store and you could ring them and see if I'm right.

    See this picture....what you can't see is the entrance, but I can tell you the entrance is just out of sight behind him and to his right....
    So you come in off the highway and the cigarettes and till are immediately on your that guy standing has his back to the highway.....
    Phone:+1 570-998-8500...give the place a call and see if I'm right.....

    May 07th, 2014 - 08:52 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Captain Poppy

    After the real holdings are filtered out for Lewis Township(they hold a lot), 501c's, businesses, the church, fire dept, family to family property transfers there is really very little left.
    The picture and store must be Rt 973......if it existed in the era of when that picture was taken.

    Oh... for in Franklin County, Suffolk County.....even though Massachusetts no longer have county governments, Middlesex County, Ct. and Pillar, Argentina......but it's only raw land.

    BTW.....I learned at a young age that pennies accumulate into dollars. But sure, I am poor to you.....I can handle that implanted in your mind.

    May 07th, 2014 - 09:16 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • lsolde

    You are a very weird guy, y'know?
    First trying to impress Clyde15 with your local knowledge & now trying to nail Captain Poppy the same way.
    Whats in it for you?
    Are you trying to make them look foolish?
    Thats not very nice Voicey, if true.
    l'd say that most of us here couldn't give a rat's arse/ass where you live or what property that you own.

    May 07th, 2014 - 09:17 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • A_Voice

    Isolde on the contrary...I just speak the truth, no exaggerations....
    They doubt what I say...I prove them wrong.....
    Do you think I want to insult's reciprocal
    Clyde stays a mere stones throw from where I am....and quite often passes my way.....I even told him where some temporary traffic light were, it would be impossible to know this info without being there.....
    The problem is they do give a rats ass where I am, yet apparently don't want to check out the proof..see Pops post....he hasn't called the number I gave him....
    He's in can't be true so he won't this......

    Pops the store hasn't changed from the old photo it's still has the till and cigarettes in the same position.....also just in case you think I have visited on a summer vacation....
    See those posts in the picture, at Christmas time they run red tape up them in a spiral so that they look like candy canes...every and ask..;-)
    Want more.....lets go back a few years.....take the 14..climbing all the way to Ralston..turn right to the Citizens & Northern Bank...through the main door...long counter in front of you...big safe visible behind the counter....
    Ask for Cindy Black she works there, lives in Ralston too.....ask if they have an ATM....answer....“we used to have one in the outside wall but it was removed and now we don't”....
    If I remember it was about five or six years ago they removed it......
    Give them a call and ask for Cindy...see if I'm right......
    +1 you don't.....

    May 07th, 2014 - 10:40 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Captain Poppy

    Why would I call anything that is available on the net?

    May 08th, 2014 - 04:44 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ChrisR

    @ 103

    But where's A_Voice!

    Ha, ha, ha.

    May 08th, 2014 - 09:43 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • A_Voice

    I don't want to point out the obvious Pops...but I already provided you with the links to those pictures.....
    What you cannot find on the Net is the details that I provided you with.....I gave you the numbers...all you need to do is call.....
    Call my bluff, as it were....
    I'm here where I say I am and go to places where I say I go and live in places that I say I live.....
    ...and unlike you, I don't make the mistake of using Yankee could I? I have an English education...what is your excuse...?

    May 08th, 2014 - 10:15 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Captain Poppy

    Actually voice your link is not the one I posted, you posted a picture link, nothing more. I know exactly where those numbers lead to, Bittners is on their link and the bank is on the net.
    I can actually get sat photos of my Ct condo and see a bike on my deck. Anything can be found on the internet. I can tell you about the little park in Glasgow on Greendyke between Saltmarket and Charlotte and the small parking lot on the Charlotte end. Grant WIlson Property managet right in the middle on Greendyke in the nice white building with tower like corner. Walk into that park, away from Greendyke and there is a nice playground there for kids. The ship is a nice touch I am sure the kids enjoy being a captain of that ship. The windmill seems out of place though.

    May 09th, 2014 - 01:01 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • A_Voice

    Oh dear Oh dear...Pops...
    Does it give you details inside...I think not....
    You are so in denial.....
    I'll give it one last go.
    How about I let you see the pictures I took of Bittners a few years ago in the festive winter season, looking so cute I had to take a pic......
    That car is the rental.....and the other side of the highway too.....;-)))
    These pics cannot not be found anywhere else on the Net as I uploaded them just for you...taken with a Nikon....
    What do you think I'm doing in the middle of rednecksville in winter?.....getting a few groceries and supplies Pops....;-))))

    May 09th, 2014 - 12:50 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Captain Poppy

    right voicey.......and yet you do not know Lisa....the tax collector.

    BTW....your link is broken.

    Let's end this topic. We both know where you do not own real property.

    The sat photos makes it easy to read store names and google the store web sites.

    enjoy your weekend. I'll be launching my toy on the Menunketesuck River despite the rain. Do something fun.

    May 09th, 2014 - 03:47 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • A_Voice

    If you were au fait with computers Pops you would realise if a link doesn't merely copy and paste the link into the Web/URL address at the top of your browser...and press enter...Voila...
    HAHAHA..Sat me a favour....PMSL....
    I think you will find when you follow the link they are not Sat photos....
    Also embedded in the pic...being digital is the date I took it and what camera I used...
    Get your head out of the sand and embrace the truth...I know it will make many of you feel silly on here, but you will get over it.....
    Believe Peter Pan Believe...;-)))
    ...the first link is better it has both pics...and embedded info....

    May 09th, 2014 - 04:37 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Troy Tempest

    “homeless Voicey

    ” proud to see my name on the mailbox”

    sure... so which one, Voicey - how about you show us on Streetview or a photo, and Capt. Poppy will cross-reference that against his list of titles??

    No, not to your liking???

    May 09th, 2014 - 05:19 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • A_Voice

    Not proud...tinkled pink....
    There is no streetview...that is confined to the main road is snowploughing by the refuse collection, private well and not on the town sewer system,,,so septic tank.
    Just how I like it....
    So a photo at ground level would be pretty difficult to match with a Google Aerial....
    So no hope with cross referencing.....
    Did you like my photo of the's a cracker, better than their Google one...

    May 09th, 2014 - 05:38 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Troy Tempest

    Did you mean, “Quaker”?

    I'm sure that a ”proud property owner would have photos of his own house.

    Didn't 't you say it was on Truman ?

    May 09th, 2014 - 06:26 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • A_Voice

    I didn't say...that was Pops...guessing.....
    Why don't you go first....

    Hahah...give me a rough area and a photo of your house and I'll have your name and address in a flash.....if it's yours, of course...
    There are lots out there that can do the same....
    Pops thinks I'm daft...there are different tax collectors for different townships there is more than one township in the Trout Run 17771 area.....
    ...trying to eliminate one with a name.....yeah...I'm daft like that....

    May 09th, 2014 - 07:14 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ChrisR

    @ 113 A_Voice

    Now let me think, who are YOU, really?

    You are not British / English, etc, BUT you were educated in England.

    You (say) you have property in Scotland and America and elsewhere I suspect.

    You seem to have wealth.

    You seem not to hold any allegiance to any country.

    You seem to have a degree of “fair play” in your character until you lose your temper.

    I think you are of Indian extraction or perhaps some other Asian country who looked on “England” as the mother country at one time. Plus your family has / had wealth.

    So come clean, I bet I am correct. But will you answer truthfully; you have already demonstrated a measure of deception in business over the Triumph thing?

    May 09th, 2014 - 09:33 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Troy Tempest


    I think you are being too generous.

    A_Voice is nothing more than a resentful malcontent with a huge chip on his shoulder.
    He has a good British education, I grant you, but he only aspires to be wealthy.
    I suggest his appearance of wealth to you is just affectation and pretention.

    The way I read it, along with his education he nurtured a sense of entitlement, but what “should” have been, did not pan out.

    Sadly, he is “not one of the club” though he obviously “deserves” to be, more than lesser mortals.

    He may or may not see that as because of his ethnicity - it's not fair!
    He certainly targets the English for his hate, but not the Scots or Irish or Welsh.

    As he rightly said in an earlier thread, one could become a UK Subject ( g'wan, split hairs now), but unless he was born there, he could never say he was English, or Scottish.

    As much as he says he despises us, A_Voice does his best to impress us and goes to ridiculous lengths, even resorting to out & out lies, rather than look like he is wrong.

    Trout Run:

    AV has sworn up and down that he has a place there. Painted into a corner, he named Trout Run.

    Now, a Title Search of the area HE designated, shows nothing to indicate he owns anything at all - contrary to what he stated.

    Now, he's squirming...


    May 09th, 2014 - 10:31 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • A_Voice

    114 eyes...lily white skin and fair hair often mistaken for a kraut in Europe and the US...
    What a dope....a title search reveals names how the feck would you know if you had seen my name or not it doesn't reveal origin or even nationality....Doh!
    You don't know what I am, but we all know what you are...a Wannabe Brit....

    May 10th, 2014 - 12:12 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Troy Tempest

    A Title Search reveals much more - Names, mailing addresses, Trust holding, proxy tax account, tax classification, “out of state ” status, many things...

    A couple of phone numbers to the store and the bank, what does that prove? What would one enquire when phoning, “ have you seen a short swarthy man with Tourette's Syndrome in here, buying vast amounts of cheap liquor??”
    I have to admit, any rural PA local would be likely to remember a pretentious loudmouthed foreigner who didn't fit in, and couldn't keep his opinions to himself, LOL!!

    The only person obsessed with “being a Brit” is you.
    You keep harping on about it - honestly the character you've tried to develop is nothing more than a caricature - like DoD!

    You are as much British as you are a Pennsylvanian. You may live in Scotland at times, but you weren't born there and try as hard as you might, you will always be a foreigner looking in - you are the ultimate frustrated wannabe.

    LOL !!

    May 10th, 2014 - 02:30 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Captain Poppy do know that the tax records identify properties with and without septic?
    BTW what are those two natural resource businesses in Trout Run area....Greater Lewis Township, or all of Lycoming County for that matter, the only two to OWN property and no use leasehold rights? A lot of business activity there for a small community wouldn't you agree?

    May 10th, 2014 - 02:54 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Troy Tempest

    Heh, heh,

    *Voice furiously Googles... *

    May 10th, 2014 - 02:59 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • A_Voice

    “A Title Search reveals much more - Names, mailing addresses, Trust holding, proxy tax account, tax classification, “out of state ” status, many things...”

    ....pity it doesn't mention Nationality or country of origin...doh!
    ...What a dope....
    Can you just tell me exactly why I should or would be interested in natural resource businesses in the area...?
    Don't know what you even mean by it....why should I...I go there to relax hang out not nose into what goes on....what part of vacation don't you understand....
    All I know is lots of folk have let the gas companies lease areas of their land...
    ...and that's all I know....
    Did you like the photos...?
    Hahaha did they look like Sat photos.....did I have a remote camera that flew by itself to Trout Run and take pictures that cannot be found anywhere else on the Net...;-)
    Are you guys for real.....

    May 10th, 2014 - 03:53 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Troy Tempest

    120 Voice

    “ .......pity it doesn't mention Nationality or country of origin”

    No, it doesn't - nothing to indicate that any of those properties are owned by a foreigner - nothing !

    I have photos of a man in a store in Sacramento, that's far from proof that I own property there.

    I wonder how many properties in Trout Run are listed as “no sewer, septic only” for tax purposes... ?

    May 10th, 2014 - 04:29 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Captain Poppy

    I am really surprised that you don't know what those to businesses did as they did notify every property owner in Lycoming County. Well......according to Lisa (the tax collector) anyway. But what does she know. Maybe you are a recent property owner (less than a year ago) and that would explain why you do not know what they did not only impacted Trout Run, but Pennsylvania and some of the Northeast.

    On..........was that last group of words you posted a question? I could not tell without the punctuation. Was it British education you said?'s nothing as we all know how my typing sucks, probably from spending to much time standing in the welfare lines.

    I so think you are asking that question (assuming it is a question) to the wrong people. Look in the mirror and ask that question, because we all have asked that of you many times. There are very few reasons why one would not want to answer that question.

    My walkaround is ready.........and the Stripers are in a hot spring run. Off to 6 mile reef.

    May 10th, 2014 - 05:14 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Troy Tempest

    120 Voice

    “All I know is lots of folk have let the gas companies lease areas of their land...
    ...and that's all I know... ”

    All the local property owners and locals seem to be very aware of business opportunities that will potentially transform their economy, their incomes , and their property values - except YOU, for some reason.

    ...and it seems that Lisa says everyone who owns property would know - changes to taxes coming, investment opportunities...

    May 10th, 2014 - 05:27 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Briton

    they say you are wealthy
    they say I am poor,
    if ever you decide to swap
    please come to my door.

    it beats the lottery that I never

    May 10th, 2014 - 07:34 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • A_Voice

    Ever heard of the word rhetorical...a rhetorical question doesn't require an answer therefore it is not necessary to put a question mark....
    It was an Americanism anyway.....
    Pointless for you anyway, as there was a question about the photos and you ignored it....
    If you are referring to the gas companies because the whole area is on Marcellus shale...that was done to death a long time ago....
    If it's anything else, I've not heard....
    If you took a photo in Sacramento...I would assume you had been there.....
    Unless you think someone just happened to give me a photo of a place in the middle of fecking nowhere for laughs.....
    Business opportunities in the USA....would that be like earning money...?
    Are you assuming that I can also work there...?
    Am I a Yankee citizen or a green card holder....?
    ...I don't think you really thought that one through.....
    Take no notice of them.....they don't know me any more than I know you....;-)

    May 10th, 2014 - 08:24 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Troy Tempest

    All we can conclude is, somehow you obtained a picture, electronically or otherwise.

    To say it “proof” you own property there... ???
    LOL, sure...

    What does business opportunity or investment mean?

    If there is something else going on in that village or county - you don't know about it - just as anyone without an intimate connection to the community.

    So far, all we're hearing from you is, “ I live there, but there is no sign of me”.

    Yep, certainly there is no sign of you, at all. Kinda self-defeating, ain't 'cha ??

    May 10th, 2014 - 09:13 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Keith York

    Troy and Poppy. You are a bit creepy.

    May 10th, 2014 - 11:19 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Troy Tempest

    Golly, a 'friend' of “Voice's” straight out of nowhere !!


    May 11th, 2014 - 04:12 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Mendocinovino

    @ A_Voice

    You seem to have picked up my stalkers! They go around in packs now have you noticed? Whats up girls can't finish an argument on your own? I'm surprised Toy is still using that name after being totally discredited. Ploppy seems more like the stalker though in this case. Sexpest just follows like a good Auntie does.
    Well this place sure does bring out the intellectually challenged. Were you abused by your dad or something? The need to abuse others in posts is very strange. Does it bring joy to your heart? Weirdos........

    May 11th, 2014 - 01:02 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Captain Poppy

    Yes voicey I did ignore those questions. So will you assume I did not act on your questions from those photo links of Trip Adviser and Face book?

    There were only to companies involved in what I was referring. No big deal. Forget it. Though, no land owner in Lycoming County did.

    No septic system you say, is that right voice. Must mean you have well water also. I drilled a well in 1988....well not me. Almost 200 ft through clay and arkcose. No ledge at all with meant casing all the way. Cost way too much and no one said I would hit water. Low and behold I hit fact the remnants of an old glacier that forms a river though the valley. But I digress. Did you drill your well?

    May 11th, 2014 - 01:11 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Briton

    very true..

    May 11th, 2014 - 07:41 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • A_Voice

    It's more a case of you picking up my stalkers....
    Pops is more amiable than Troll Thepest...although it's not his fault.. he is a Yank and that means he's paranoid. He doesn't like someone pulling the wool over his eyes, he doesn't like to think that he is being fooled. He won't be happy until he has your email and phone number and absolute irrefutable proof that what you say is true..
    Troll The Pest has no excuse...he just sucks up to the Brits and hardly ever comments on an article... posts links to debates on other threads claiming you are losing an argument and hoping others will agree and think what a good boy he is...
    Thrives on thinking he's popular and part of the Brit club....he's not, he's a Wannabe...never been to the UK most likely...daren't say he has as he knows I'll catch him out....

    No Pops I'm not assuming you haven't checked, but now that I think about it, it would be pretty dodgy to call a store and you mind telling me the position of your cash register in relation to the entrance...;-)
    Even worse...the bank at Ralston...“Do you have a huge walk-in safe on display behind the counter like something from a Spaghetti Western?”...probably trace your call...;-)
    No I didn't drill the well it was already there and I don't know the exact location of it or how deep it is....I have heard that if you head South just on the other side of the Susquehanna River the Amish that live in the Valley have to go 200 feet down for water.

    May 11th, 2014 - 08:04 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Captain Poppy

    Very good voicey......but I am still wondering if you were the only land owner without a noticed from the business.

    It doesn't concern you of the 706 fracking wells 546 disposal violations, condering you drink the water there> Any where well head Dcnr 100 90H Pad C 50740? How about Marquardt 8537H, that one was impounded by the sate.

    This is the place you go for peace and quiet? It's like the middleeast without Al Qaeda.

    As for your questions, when I return from Argentina I will be down in out DC in that area and stop in and tell then.

    May 11th, 2014 - 10:42 pm - Link - Report abuse 0

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