MercoPress. South Atlantic News Agency
Holdout bondholders tell US Supreme Court Argentina's case is “undeserving of review”
Holders of Argentine sovereign debt this week asked the U.S. Supreme Court not to hear that country's appeal of lower court decisions ordering it to pay them 1.33 billion dollars in a case Argentine officials warn could force it to default on its sovereign debt. Read full article
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Disclaimer & comment rulesMr. Market thinks Arg will be forced to pay the holdouts.
May 09th, 2014 - 11:28 am - Link - Report abuse 0Psst so do I.
Any sane entity would have settled this a decade ago and gotten themselves back on track. Now the nutjob CFK has dragged 40MM down the drain with her craziness and intransigence.
My guess is that the great and powerful in the US are seeking some wriggle-room for when the US itself has to pay back China.
May 09th, 2014 - 11:28 am - Link - Report abuse 02. Is that a joke or haven't you woken up yet this morning?
May 09th, 2014 - 11:42 am - Link - Report abuse 0It is more likely China will need our assistance when their economy is brought down by their massive internal debt.
Every bank in china is broke along with most of their major SOE.
They are skating on thin ice and when one goes they'll all go
U$3T in reserves is not enough to fix this massive problem and keep them fed.
Watch and see
According to mecon.gov.ar
May 09th, 2014 - 12:04 pm - Link - Report abuse 025 Bn that is owed to international institutions
53 Bn is owed to the private sector
121 Bn is owed to the public sector itself (But we all know that nobody is going to pay that)
http://www.mecon.gob.ar/finanzas/sfinan/documentos/informe_deuda_publica_30-09-13.pdf
Notice how they use debt as a % of GDP (which is false and artificially inflated) in the three first graphs to pretend they are reducing the debt.
Of course the holdouts are not even considered here as this comes from the Ministry of Economy so whenever SCOTUS sentences the case defiantly this will be added to the debt the government recognizes??
So the poor fool that has to readapt and clean the numbers of INDEC in the next gov’t will have perhaps private and international debt in U$S over 20% of GDP, 30% of GDP more ?? Who knows?
I know what the Ks will be saying though, “ we left government and the first thing you guys did was indebt the country again after all we did”….
How does the next government explain this to a country of economical ignorant and idiots??
@4 - Answer, it can't. The opposition will say that the reasons for the difficult times at the end of their mandate was due to a global slow down. People will look back and think it was better under the previous government. Then something will happen that has happened many times before. The country will run into a state of crisis and an unknown politician, a voice of light will start to promise bread, not tomorrow, not the day or month after but now and the people will believe and flock to this banner, this progressive voice of hop and the cycle will start all over again. Thus it always was…
May 09th, 2014 - 12:28 pm - Link - Report abuse 05. And the reason I keep saying only a Dictator with immense power can fix this country.
May 09th, 2014 - 12:31 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I don't know why they'd be so opposed to it what they call democracy has clearly failed.
Plus the Kidiots on this forum seem to love the ALBA dictators and Peron.
What an odd place and people.
Argentine officials warn could force it to default on its sovereign debt.
May 09th, 2014 - 12:53 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Sooner the better then,
at least it would solve this particular problem..
It is absolutely clear, that until the 15M Peronistas are permanently converted to a sensible political party or dead, The Dark Country is screwed.
May 09th, 2014 - 12:59 pm - Link - Report abuse 0They really need somebody like CabezaDura2 to head things up, but I would imagine he is too sensible to get involved.
Argentina already has made clear that it will not obey any adverse decision on the questions it presents,“ reads NML's brief, filed just before Wednesday night's deadline.
May 09th, 2014 - 01:10 pm - Link - Report abuse 0”Argentina ultimately is not interested in any court's views concerning those questions. By Argentina's lights, it has the final word, and it will recognize a judicial ruling only if it accords with Argentina's conclusions,“ NML said.
... Argentina is without peer in its mistreatment of private-sector creditors.”
Robert Raben, who lobbies for the holdouts as executive director of the American Task Force Argentina, said Thursday that Argentina has failed to honor 114 adverse court rulings since its 2002 default, and also has refused to pay more than 30 settlements ordered by World Bank arbitrators.
USSC, let's see some “justice”. The entire world knows that argies are cheats, fraudsters and liars. Did they “offer” a debt swap? They did not. They used coercion. “Accept this or get nothing”. Time for the U.S. to live up to being the “leader” of the free world. Time for argieland to pay the price of its lies and fraud. And that may mean invasion and taking what is owed. And yes, that IS legal!
May 09th, 2014 - 01:18 pm - Link - Report abuse 0In the “Pari Passu” issue the Holdouts are 100% right! There is nothing to discuss. In the bond contracts “Pari Passu” is clear defined. Also, in the bond contracts Argentina has explicitly waived its sovereign immunity.
May 09th, 2014 - 07:53 pm - Link - Report abuse 0It would be helpful, if the US Supreme Court rejected ASAP Argentina’s unjustified appeal. Then, Argentina and the holdouts could negotiate immediately negotiate a solution.
President Kirchner should give a start and end this WAR against innocent holdouts. (it lasts already longer, than the World War I and II together)
We are human beings and not scapegoat of the politics!!
Argentina should finally sit down and negotiate an acceptable solution with the Holdouts!
Most of the Holdouts are “before default buyer”, who have bought their bonds at an average of 100% or even higher. That is why we cannot accept similar offers as they were in 2005 and 2010.
Most of the “Exchange Bondholders” were “after default buyer”, who have bought their bonds at an average of 30% or even lower. That is why they have accepted the offers in 2005 or 2010
If Argentina and the holdouts made already NOW A BINDING AGREEMENT with respect to the “time after” (end of the “Rights Upon Future Offers (RUFO) clause in December 2014), seizure risks and a technical Default would be immediately averted. Argentina could immediately return to the capital market and thus Argentina could refinance the payments to the holdouts, without using reserves. And also the old bonds would be immediately traded at an predictable and fair price.
Following simple conditions might be acceptable for the Holdouts on the basis of the old bonds.(Without swapping from old to new bonds, also because of tax reason)
Argentina (or investment banks, funds) make a buyback offer of about 130-140% for the holdouts ( for owned capital+ accrued interest between 2002-2015).
(Argentina owns until now about 230%, a cash buyback of 130-140% would so mean for Argentina already a debt relief of about 100%)
Any lawyers on here?
May 09th, 2014 - 08:20 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Can you think of any other arbitration under law, where one of the parties at the outset states that they will not abide by the ruling, if it goes against them?
Surely that would make a nonsense of the whole process?
Why hear argument and counter argument, if one of the parties states it is not going to abide by the result of the process!
Mockery is the word that comes to mind!
Still what do they care, all they care about is their fee!
Griesa and the NY appellate court have chastised and warned them that not adhering to the court rulings would make their lives very uncomfortable.
May 09th, 2014 - 11:12 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The USA Courts have very long arms and we shall see shortly how long they really are.
I bet they rule on FISA ( Arg will lose) but send the rest back to NY (again Arg has already lost).
Hopefully this all happens before the next interest payment is due.
Vulture funds chasing Argentina through the courts.
May 10th, 2014 - 02:03 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The unspeakable, in pursuit of the inedible.
Comes to mind.
Argentina has plenty of assets to seize worldwide.
May 10th, 2014 - 07:21 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Argentina is clearly a “law unto itself” - judge and jury!
May 11th, 2014 - 10:23 am - Link - Report abuse 0What did I tell you a year ago, when NO ONE was paying attention to this, not even the US media?
May 11th, 2014 - 02:21 pm - Link - Report abuse 0http://news.yahoo.com/fed-govt-failed-inspect-higher-risk-oil-wells-090356568--finance.html
In a few years the American food belt of the Midwest will be completely useless. And the California growing belt completely dry. And Florida too overcrowded.
USA is farked. They will have to beg Argentina for food and water.
17. Just because they're not inspected by the Federal Gov't doesn't' mean they are polluting anything.
May 11th, 2014 - 02:43 pm - Link - Report abuse 0How in the world do you make the connect to the food belt in the Midwest, a CA drought and what the heck does it have to do with overcrowding in FL?
Good gracious you are all over the board with nonsense.
http://news.yahoo.com/environmentalists-sue-list-bumble-bee-endangered-221534505.html
May 14th, 2014 - 03:17 am - Link - Report abuse 0All I have been telling you is coming to a head now. Bees are for all intents and purposes on their way to be extinct in the USA in 20 years.
No water, no bees, no rain?
It's called you're SCREWED.
19
May 14th, 2014 - 03:35 am - Link - Report abuse 0Im a hobby beekeeper, those are not bees, they are bumble bees (abejorros). You use them in Mendoza greenhouses too as pollinators.
The hive comes in cardboard boxes and you leave them inside to pollinate.
The tricky one is honey bees as they are by far the most important pollinators in the world crops, and they contribute billions of dollars worth in their service.
It's not something to cheer about, its pretty serious problem in all the world and nobody agrees on what is the real cause(s) there is and it is not limited to the US only, and we had the first cases of CCD in BsAs province in 2012.
I read not so long ago that in China they actually run out of bees in Sichuan province and the pear farmers have to actually hire people to do the work the bees did for thousands of years.
Duh, you think I don't know the difference?
May 14th, 2014 - 03:57 am - Link - Report abuse 0The point is the same, all those major pollinators are going extinct in China, North America and Europe.
No bees, no rain, no water underground (contaminated)... spells A R G E N T I N A P L E A S E F E E D U S... coming to a future near you.
21
May 14th, 2014 - 04:07 am - Link - Report abuse 0I dont know if they are using the propper Italian bee in America and China that is far more delicate and friendly than the European ones. Surely the american comertial beekepers must do so, but then locals say wild bees are nowhere to be seen either.
We use the same agricultural practises and chemicals than the Americans do... Why are you so sure we would be exempt ??
If anybody saves the planet it would be the Europeans who have clashed with the American companies many times before over enviromental impacts and side effects of there products they sell. The Germans have lost patience with the USDA and have their strong suspition on neonicotinoids as the main responsables of CCD.
I think we have developed mini-drones to pollinate if there's ends up being some issue with the bee population.
May 14th, 2014 - 12:09 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Toby, you never know what you are talking about. It is sad that you think we are like Argentina. As I said on another thread the USA has the money, talent and grit to solve any problem facing us.
Oh now I am just having fun toying around with this guy. He must be in stage 3 mushroom poisoning.
May 14th, 2014 - 12:15 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“Mini drones” lol you are truly something else.
You have no money, the talent is all foreign and leaving in droves, and the only grit you have left are those saturated fat munchies you eat in the mornings.
Sorry, but you are done. I hear they had to evacuate tens of thousands in California due to heat and drought.
LOL didn't I tell you this months ago? Parts of your country would start becoming inhabitable this YEAR?
I warned you.
Yes I know, the USA now has a climate modifier device that moistens the atmosphere and creates rain clouds...
Good mushrooms.
It is a coincidance that some days ago Havard has found more evidence that what causes CCD is neonicotinoids
May 14th, 2014 - 12:32 pm - Link - Report abuse 0http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/news/press-releases/study-strengthens-link-between-neonicotinoids-and-collapse-of-honey-bee-colonies/
Seems the Germans & French suspitions were well founded a couple of years ago
http://earthfirstjournal.org/newswire/2013/04/08/robotic-bees-to-pollinate-monsanto-crops/
May 14th, 2014 - 12:35 pm - Link - Report abuse 0yeah mini pollinating drones.
Does the technology we have scare you?
Do you mean the CA wildfires? That happens every year. The rebuild and go back. Its no big deal. I wouldn't live in CA for many reasons one of them is definitely the weather problems. Horrible place but much better than Argentina that's for sure.
You will be light years of making that kind of stuff economically effective to polinate vast extentions of crops.
May 14th, 2014 - 01:01 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The trend will lickely be GMOs actually tacking most of the functions that chemical pesticides have and further resistance to pests.
In the short term you are probably right but all new technology is expensive when it first come out.
May 14th, 2014 - 01:04 pm - Link - Report abuse 0It was just an example to show Toby that our limits are boundless.
It is funny to watch him squirm since he says stuff without knowing what the comeback is going to be.
He is really not very bright.
Well as beekeeper I founded pretty shitty that robots would be replacing them. But it may come about in the future who knows.
May 14th, 2014 - 01:21 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Hopefully they come up with something to revert CCD, and now finally they have seem to found its source.
They have being for years debating what was the cause and most believed it was a multiple factors affecting the hives at once.
There is photos and videos of chinese working as human pollinators in apple and pear orchards in China after they killed off all the bees and other wildlife.
I found it pretty sad
29. Once they figure out the cause they'll figure out the solution. I don't think anyone is panicking just yet.
May 14th, 2014 - 01:41 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I think beekeeping is pretty cool in the USA they started keeping them in cities on rooftops to help with trees and flowers I guess.
In the USA you have contractors that provide year round polinization service to the farmers from Texas and Missisipi all the way up North to Canada.
May 14th, 2014 - 04:04 pm - Link - Report abuse 0They go following the different crop cycles as they climb up north.
It seems very hard work.
Apparently they have being hit hard in the recent years with CCD and rising fuel prices.
You also need to account that a lot has to do that less and less young people in the US are into beekeeping as a business so that has also contributed to the idea that bees will no longer be around. You have a deficit of farmers too.
31. I think the Migrant workers follow the same path and schedule. I wish more families wanted to farm still but it looks like it is going to be large corporate farms from here on out.
May 14th, 2014 - 07:52 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Although there are lots of people leaving cities to live in small towns since they can do their jobs through internet.
The world is changing quickly!
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