MercoPress. South Atlantic News Agency
Scottish church fears strong divisions following the independence referendum
Political leaders locked in a bitter fight over Scottish independence have urged all Scots to reunite whatever the outcome of a referendum in September as the national church voiced concerns over rifts in society. Read full article
Comments
Disclaimer & comment rulesDon't worry to much abt the church matey,
May 13th, 2014 - 07:06 pm - Link - Report abuse 0F35B - Aircraft that will equip the RN's Carriers
http://www.pinterest.com/navylookout/f35b-aircraft-that-will-equip-the-rns-carriers/
that's better...
And very soon, it may be the Argies that will need to pray....
peacefully that is..
Saw 2 of the F35B fly over just the other day, AWESOME
May 13th, 2014 - 07:36 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Well.....
May 14th, 2014 - 04:01 am - Link - Report abuse 0We all know where the Church of SCOTLAND stands on this matter...
Don't we?
We kicked out the Papists 400 years ago.
May 14th, 2014 - 04:57 am - Link - Report abuse 0...
'nuff said
lt still amuses me, Think, why it means so much to you.
May 14th, 2014 - 08:24 am - Link - Report abuse 0You see forests where there are only seas.
Personally l hope that Scotland stays part of the UK.
But thats just my feelings.
lf Scotland wants to go it alone, its their decision & l wish them well.
Anyway Think, if it does happen,even if Wales & Northern lreland left too, England is quite capable on its own, of putting Argentina in its place.
lol!
@5
May 14th, 2014 - 10:24 am - Link - Report abuse 0It is a matter for Scotland yes, however we cannot have this continually raising it's head every few years as it is damaging for the whole of the UK, our investors and money markets and a permanent stick our enemies can and do use to beat us with. I would much rather Scotland left the UK now than have this issue rolling on and on, I despise Alex Salmond, he makes me feel physically sick on sight and his face is everywhere.
If the Scottish people feel so disenfranchised with their free prescriptions and free university fees within the UK, then now is the time for them to leave and as an Englishman I would encourage them to leave and follow their own path.
@5 You hope Scotland stays part of the UK? It's gone too far. Some useful approximate figures. UK = 63 million. Scotland = 5 million. England = 53 million. So far, basically, Wales is sticking with England. It has specifically asked that Scotland not be allowed to use the pound sterling. Northern Ireland is, effectively, irrelevant with a population of less than 2 million.
May 14th, 2014 - 10:53 am - Link - Report abuse 0So, until this “last moment”, what has Salmond's strategy been? To insult England and the English. Trying to “appeal” to the lowest of the scotch. Only recently has he realised how he is seen by the English.
Bear in mind that Salmond doesn't really want “independence”. What he really wants is his so-called “devo-max”. The ability to spend whatever he likes and have the English taxpayer pay the bills. Notice how all the things he claimed would happen, won't? Waltzing into the EU. Currency union. Free movement between scotland and the UK. Free trade between scotland and the UK. No border controls. Use of UK institutions and organisations. Even dual citizenship is in doubt. UK citizenship can be removed from the scotch with a stroke of the pen.
And now many English people are asking for a vote. So that they can tell scotland that it's not wanted. And the scotch can be told that they aren't wanted either, and can be repatriated to scotland, forcibly if necessary. More jobs for English people. More houses for English people.
Salmond got it wrong. He thought English people would be wedded to the Union and give him anything in order to keep it.
But, as you say, England is more than capable of going it alone. Salmond should have read some history. He might have learned that England alone had an empire. Trying to emulate that was what bankrupted scotland.
And, one way or another, scotland will be punished. Out of the EU, until the REAL UK leaves. No money. Figure his cost of borrowing using the “scrote”. Caged behind the border fences. Only scotch citizenship. Job losses.
7) Conqueror- Keep up the ignorance and prejudicial remarks, only makes you look more of a nutjob than you already are.
May 14th, 2014 - 12:45 pm - Link - Report abuse 0It's great to see the ignorance towards Scottish politics here though. People saying they despise Salmond for no particularly valid reason lol.
THEman - it is not often I agree with Conqueror but most of what he says here will come to pass. Alez Salmond took too much for granted and he will find that little that he promised will actually occur.
May 14th, 2014 - 01:24 pm - Link - Report abuse 09) Explain what he has taken for granted??
May 14th, 2014 - 01:34 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Salmond is a power hungry grasping toad who just wants his name to go down in History.
May 14th, 2014 - 02:24 pm - Link - Report abuse 0He has no clear ideas and has painted himself into a corner over this.
I hope the referendum is clear “No” and he gets booted out for good.
11) That's what all typical Unionists say, and unfortunately such personal attacks is a recurring theme amongst the Project Fear group. Your comment only reaffirms my previous statement that people from outwith Scotland (I assume that you are, though if I'm wrong then correct me) simply don't understand the debate and arguments being provided.
May 14th, 2014 - 02:30 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I would have thought that people in the UK would have been in favour of democratic progression, and not the status quo, which is quite clearly not as democratic as people claim.
@12
May 14th, 2014 - 03:18 pm - Link - Report abuse 0What part of what has gone on is not democratic for Scotland, when did the English people get a vote to leave the UK, when did the English get a parliament, when did the English get to vote on purely Scottish matters as Scottish politicians do in England.
I can tell you something for definate, if the English people were allowed to get a vote in September, the Scots would get their independence by a vast margine, that was a big screw up by Salmond.
This independence movement in Scotland will leave behind it a wake of damage, both in Scotland and in England.
My hope is that the Scots take this oppurtunity to leave because otherwise this will be a continual rumbling and destructive issue for the whole country.
Let’s not go down the bickering route please, chaps,
May 14th, 2014 - 06:50 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Just a good convo will do, ,
September will decide,
In the meantime on a lighter note,
,,,,,,,,,,,
An Indy Scotland could claim one of the Royal Navy's new aircraft carriers for use as a humanitarian hospital ship. pic.twitter.com/bgDZk2TJ0X
Via @mrdavidboberesq: Best Scots Indy joke so far! Jim Sillars claims RN aircraft carrier for use as hospital ship,
Sillars reveals plans for one of the carriers,
An independent Scotland should claim one of the carriers for use as a hospital ship, says a socialist manifesto,
The [-ROBERT BURNS-] would be would be despatched on missions to Africa and Asia at a cost to Scottish taxpayers of £35 million a year, former SNP Deputy Leader
Jim sillars said,
He admitted the plan might invite mockery but argued an independent Scotland should use soft power rather than its military might,
[- don’t shoot the messenger -]
@14
May 14th, 2014 - 08:00 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Haha, I reckon the UK would pull the plug on it before they allowed that to happen. When oil prices drop, which they will, they will be lucky to afford a rubber ring and no more free methadone prescriptions on Glasgow council estates. Do they know what currency they're spending yet in cuckoo land ??
(5) lsolde, babykins
May 14th, 2014 - 08:11 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You say...:
“You see forests where there are only seas.”
I say...:
You can see them forests too, dahling...
Just ask David from SAMS to take you for a dive on them Kelper forests...
You wont regret it...
@16
May 14th, 2014 - 08:18 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Did you write Cantona's seagulls following the trauler speech?
13) Britworker (aka typical bigoted commentor, see the methadone comment)
May 14th, 2014 - 09:26 pm - Link - Report abuse 01) The English effectively have their own Parliament, which is called Westminster. They have over 500 of the 650 MPs in the UK, and your electorate alone determines which party goes into power, in General Elections. I don't think it's really fair for a party with 1 MP in this country, to be ruling it. If you're complaining about Scottish MPs voting on English issues, then please blame your main parties, Labour, the Lib Dems and Tories. None of the SNP MPs vote on English issues.
I have no problem with English people, despite the scumbags claiming independence is based on anti-Englishness. It isn't, and never has been. Self-determination is what it's about, and democratic progression- for BOTH sides of the UK. I am forced to vote Yes due to the fact that it has been made clear Westminster intend on cutting the Scottish budget, trying to introduce charges for tuition in Scotland, and privatising healthcare, like what they are doing south of the border. Refusing to include devo-max as an option was a stupid move by Westminster, and that may well push a lot of people into voting Yes.
We will wait and see what the outcome of the vote is in September. In the meantime, please feel free to continue your ignorance and bigotry towards Scotland.
I agree that the Scottish have a right to have a referendum.
May 14th, 2014 - 09:33 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I just don't think it is in their best interests to leave the UK.
I don't like Salmond as I feel he is hoodwinking the population of Scotland and is refusing to be honest about the true consequences of his proposal.
I think it started of as bid for more local power and now he finds himself in the cabin of a runaway train and can't get off.
My prediction is that the Scots will vote NO.
We will see in September and the rest of the UK will respect their decision.
TheMan
May 14th, 2014 - 10:06 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The English do not have their own Parliament called Westminster at all...what complete and utter shit.
If it was an English Parliament, the Conservative Party would be in power, not a coalition. It is a UK Parliament...where Scottish, Welsh and Northern Irish MPs sit, with the English MPs...your complaint appear to be that there are not an equal number of Scottish MPs as English...as we are both one country..LOL
Nonetheless, the lack of MPs hasn't stopped Scotland and Scottish constituencies being represented in many of the top jobs, who could forget the wonder Brown, Darling partnership, in fact 30-40% of top jobs in the “English Parliament” have been held be Scots in the past 15-20 years.
So now we have established you are talking shit....we can continue.
As far as what Alex Salmond has taken for granted:
1) Monetary Union with the rest of the Uk (very unlikely), he has no plan B
2) Memebership of the EU...Spain is far from clear on its potential veto
3) Membership of NATO
4) Ownership of North Sea oil, and the democratic position of the Shetland Islands
5) Scotland's share of UK assets, public sector pensions etc
6) Scotland's share of the UK national debt
7) Scotlands ability to borrow on the international money markets
8) continued trade at current levels with the rUK
To me I couldn't care which way Scotland votes in September, I am interested in ensuring England gets out of the current poisonous and undemocratic situation, where Scottish MPs are holding the balance of power in Westminster on English only issues, and you are correct, the blame for that lies with the Uk Labour Party and Liberal Party (who have the vast majority of seats in Scotland).
20) Monkeyboy
May 15th, 2014 - 12:16 am - Link - Report abuse 0If you don't admit to that, then we have no reason to discuss this.
Look at the 2010 GE results in England, the Tories would still have had a coalition with the Lib Dems regardless of Scottish, Welsh or NI MPs. Whichever party/parties England votes for, the whole of the UK gets.
By the way, we are NOT one country, as the UK is a sovereign STATE. That's a main reason for myself wanting to vote yes, for the simple fact that I view Scotland as a country, and with that we should also have the powers as well.
So now we have established that you have yet to even address my point at all.....we will continue.
1) Monetary Union- Read the Fiscal Commission report which explains clearly why it's in both areas' best interests for it to happen, at least in the short term. Comparisons to the Eurozone are refuted as well, and explains what needs to be done for it to work. If it doesn't happen, well there are 3 other choices, as explained in this report.
2) The Spanish government have already said that Scotland and Catalonia are two separate issues, and they will not veto membership.
3) That will happen (for territorial reasons).
4) That's already been decided, and I have family living in Shetland. Support for indy is actually higher up there than in other regions, slightly.
5) That's obvious, it will be 8.4%, unless (see number 6)
6)we don't get a fair share of assets, then we have no obligation to service debt. We can't inherit it anyway, as the rUK would technically default.
7) Two rating agencies have said that it will be between AAA and A ratings for Scotland. If it's an A rating, then that can be improved over time. Independence, after all, is about the long term.
8) Trade and border arrangements can be made, so nothing serious will happen.
This is why I don't listen to people outside Scotland on this, because the majority are simply misinformed as to what actually is happening here. Try looking elsewhere, rather than the biased Unionist MSM, for news.
@21
May 15th, 2014 - 07:15 am - Link - Report abuse 0You actually believe what Salmond has told you, it is quite astonishing. You know absolutely nothing about the international money markets. If you don't take your share of the debt, it is you who will be viewed to be in default and you won't be able to borrow.
You have been told openly by all three main parties that you will not be using the UK pound as the UK does not want to be in a position of having to bail you out when oil prices drop, this is what has happened in the Euro zone and that is why they are moving away from the model Scotland wishes for itself, the BOE gave you a pretty big hint on that one as well.
Oil prices will drop and when they do Scotland will not be able to make ends meat or service its debts.
Your banks have told you them may have to relocate to England if you have no viable currency, as will many of your business.
The Chancellor told you that ship building on the Clyde was highly unlikely to continue in the event of independence.
Barrosso told you honestly and openly that Scotland joining the EU would be very difficult if not possible at all.
Spain will do everything it can and I mean everything it can to prevent Catalonia reaching independence, they will block your membership of the EU, I guarantee you....why wouldnt't they?
You call this a negative campaign, others might say you have been told the truth, something Salmond certainly hasn't been doing. You are following him like the pied piper of the edge of a cliff and he isn't the first Scottish leader to stab his own people in the back!
Unfortunately for you, you are the bigots, as for you it is independence at any price, no matter what damage is caused along the way. That is why I actively encourage you to vote YES and we can see an end to this, because with all the problems the UK is going to face over the next 50 years, we most certainly do not need people like you being part of it.
TheMan
May 15th, 2014 - 09:15 am - Link - Report abuse 0I am sorry but you are wrong. The Conservatives won 306 seats out of 650 contested at the last election.
Without Scotlands 59 seats....591 seats would have been contested and the Conservatives would have won 305. An OVERALL MAJORITY !!!!
Take off Wales and Northern Ireland and it is a MASSIVE Overall majority of 298/532 seats for the Tories.
So please accept you are wrong.
Next....your report says why it is in both countries interests....so what? We (all three major political parties) don't want monetary union with you....we couldn't give a toss about your silly report.
You are as wrong about the Shetlands as you are about England.
You don't listen to news outside Scotland, because you have your fingers in your ears shouting lalalalalalalalala.
You have assumed England will give you what you want, as you claim it is in their interest....whilst you are completely at liberty to vote for what you believe is in your interests (most in England don't care), you can fuck right off trying to tell us what in in ours...
Unless your next post starts with an admission that you are a clueless feckwit, who either deliberately lied about the results of the 2010 general election...or just mindless spewed misinformation...don't bother responding.
As I have said before, politicians are professional liars. Regarding the referendum, BOTH sides are engaging in rhetoric. No doubt the truth lies somewhere in the middle. From some of the posts here, you would think that Scotland was like Nazi Germany...the number one HATE figure above Al- Qaeda or the Taliban.
May 15th, 2014 - 01:04 pm - Link - Report abuse 0From a historical point of view, read this report kept secret from the public. This confirms my view of politicians.
wikipedia.org/wiki/McCrone_report
@22 Britworker - It wasn't me who said that about the debt, it was economic institutions like NIESR who stated that Scotland cannot inherit the rUK's debt, otherwise the rUK would default on it. We would however, agree to service that debt, IF we got a fair share of assets. We would have no legal obligation for any debt as we are a “new state” , and didn't get any assets.
May 15th, 2014 - 02:05 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Like I said, read the Fiscal Commission report, which clearly shows that Eurozone comparisons are entirely misleading as these two areas would NOT have the same problems. Similar labour movement, high trade etc, that sort of stuff.
Actually, oil prices are predicted to rise by many agencies. The OBR is NOT a credible agency, so don't bring them up.
Link to prove that those banks have said that.
As for shipbuilding, not a problem. Good luck, however, spending billions of pounds to fit your own shipyards to build these types of ships, out of spite.
Barroso's statements have already been branded as ludicrous by European experts and officials, as he compared the situation to Kosovo (which is entirely different).
Why wouldn't Spain veto us? Simple reason- the referendum was legally agreed to by Scotland and the UK, whilst the Spanish Govt refuse to allow one. They said that themselves, look it up.
And there we go with the personal attacks, as per usual with people who don't know what they're talking about. The fact that you said all that just proves my point previously made.
23) Monkeyboy- You've yet to refute my point that for the past 100 years, Scottish MPs have influenced which party gets into power. Please do so, otherwise just keep quiet about it.
As for currency union, by all means go ahead and refuse it. Just means we don't need to service debt. Good luck with that.
I lived in Shetland for 5 years, I think I know my old home area better than yourself ;)
Thank you for proving my point, and I bid you vale.
24
May 15th, 2014 - 03:06 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Speaking of Scotland...
Hey Clyde did your power cut out at about quarter past eleven last night...?
The sky lit up like lightning and everything went off ...all this side of the water and I could see all Greenock went off as well...street lamps everything...couldn't even get an internet signal....
I don't understand it...we are not on the same loop as Greenock....
...just curious to how far down it went....
#26
May 15th, 2014 - 04:18 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Nothing untoward happened here. Have you paid your electricity bill ?
@25
May 15th, 2014 - 05:37 pm - Link - Report abuse 0what a pathetic coward and worm you are...
lied about the result of 2010 election, and the fact the coalition is NOT what England voted for and exists because of the impact of the votes from the rest of the UNion..
and then when proven to be a liar...decided to try and worm your way out.
COWARD!!! UK would be better without liars and cowards like you.
27
May 15th, 2014 - 05:42 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Direct debit.....strange, first time I've seen both sides of the water go out...
How about the submarine that's been going up and down the Clyde opposite Gourock like a fish in a tank for the last 2 days....it's resting just off Strone now....
Trials...? It's usually your cup of tea....finger on the pulse....what's happening...
28) Monkeyboy
May 15th, 2014 - 06:11 pm - Link - Report abuse 0LOL!! Can't really expect else from someone who has displayed xenophobic trends for over a year on this site. Regardless, this comment just confirms all the points I have been making on this site, and on many others related to independence.
By the way, it was you who decided to focus on one particular election, when I talked about ALL General Elections, where I am right in saying that only on TWO occasions, have the Scottish electorate managed to impact (slightly) the result of which party gets into power.
With regards to the coalition, I should point out that the Tories are effectively in power, and the Lib Dems have no real power in it.
Anyway, now that I have cleared that up, you can continue with your flag-waving nationalistic ways, whilst I will continue to laugh at your pathetic attempts to insult not only myself, but basic democratic progression which would be guaranteed in the event of independence, for BOTH sides.
By the way, using CAPS when trying to insult people, only makes you look like a nutjob.
Vale
You said...
May 15th, 2014 - 07:45 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“Look at the 2010 GE results in England, the Tories would still have had a coalition with the Lib Dems regardless of Scottish, Welsh or NI MPs. Whichever party/parties England votes for, the whole of the UK gets”
I have pointed out and proved beyond doubt that you are either a LIAR or thick as shit...probably both.
Poor poor wee man....too much of a pathetic coward to admit it....bless.
So let's look at the Government prior to 2010... The prime Minister from the constituency of Kirkcaldy and Cowdenbeath, the Chancellor from a Scottish constituency too....yep, clearly no Scottish influence in that government LOL
Every preceding government for a century, a scotsman vote has been worth near 1.5 English votes....crikey how much over representation do you want?
Now we have cleared that up we can now progress that “you don't get to dictate the terms of your independence...you arrogant pillock”
5m Scots DO NOT dictate to 55m English that it is in “our interests to do this or do that”...we have told you...No monetary Union.
I loved your view that Scotland is honouring a debt they don't need to...PMSL...so if England left the Union the debt would be rUK then....my god.
I think your pathetic wee threat to rename on the debt is hilarious...firstly we keep the assets, worth far more than the debt...and then you only get defaulters rates...go for your wee life, wee man.
I have no flag waving nationalistic ways wee man, I'll leave that to you Scot Nats...Scottish Independence is irrelevant to most in England, other than removing a whole bunch of Labour MPs from Westminster who seem to delight in voting on English only issues.
Gentlemen, please.
May 15th, 2014 - 07:57 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Are we going to part friends(if we do part)?
Or acrimonious enemies?
Remember, we are all Eve's children.
Peace
Isolde
May 15th, 2014 - 08:01 pm - Link - Report abuse 0We are not going to part at all....what will be proven in September is the vast majority (my estimate 65%) of Scots will vote No.
In the mean time I am having great fun in winding up xenophobic pillocks like our wee friend, who have believed the ludicrous rantings of Salmond.
Either way England wins...just a pity we don't have popcorn to enjoy the show.
I have popcorn!
May 15th, 2014 - 09:13 pm - Link - Report abuse 0《shares》
Let's enjoy the show!
@Mokeyboy -
May 15th, 2014 - 09:26 pm - Link - Report abuse 0”We are not going to part at all....what will be proven in September is the vast majority (my estimate 65%) of Scots will vote No“ - This just shows your ignorance, not going to even comment on that.
”xenophobic pillocks” - Oh, the irony....
Thanks for proving many of my previous points again.
Once again, vale.
Ladies & Gentlemen...
May 16th, 2014 - 04:59 am - Link - Report abuse 0Paraphrasing some young Yank punks…:
“Summer has come and past
the ignominy can never last
Wake me up when September ends…
Like my forefathers come to pass
three-hundred years has gone so fast
Wake me up when September ends…”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o6QjQcJAfvk
Remember......................................, we are all Adams children.
Freedom
Think, you have the originality of a retarded gnat!
May 16th, 2014 - 10:32 am - Link - Report abuse 0You need to get a girlfriend or a boyfriend & get out more.
TheMan
May 16th, 2014 - 05:28 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The irony is this...I think most Scottish people are great. In fact, based on contribution to the worlds global knowledge base, Scotland and the Scottish people have probably delived more than any other nation per capita than any other nation.
What I find interesting though, when looking at these unarguably great Scots...is how their partnerships with English people or institutions have delived their very best results:
James Watt and Matthew Boulton
Alexander Fleming made his pencillin research in London paddington
Chris Hoy won many gold medals with jason Kenny and trains at the Manchester velodrome
The list goes on and on and on....for these great Scots...it appears the best results were working together.
Too..bad it is for the XENOPHOBIC muppets like you, with some ridiculous near racist anti-English (hidden behind anti-Tory) rhetoric, that you believe in some myth spewed by Salmond.
To despise you, to pity you or to laugh at you is not xenophobic...because it is also to appreciate the very best of Scottishness, and the best of Englishness is (and has always been) by being together.
However, if as you suggest (and I wholly disagree), that the bitter muppets like you form the majority of Scots...go for lives and vote yes (you wont).
However, in doing so, you will get what you deserve, and what are given...not what you think you might like...irrespective of your opinion as to “what is in our interests”.
sorry, wee man, if you dont like it.
(37) lsolde
May 16th, 2014 - 11:07 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Are you asking me out?
;-)))
@ 39
May 16th, 2014 - 11:45 pm - Link - Report abuse 0On behalf of Isolde, uuurrgghhh! I 'think' I have a little bit of sick at the back of my throat!
Anyhoo (!) the Scots will always vote with their wallet, (no harm in that), and they know they are better of in the UK enjoyings their lovely subsidies (in batter)!
@39 Think,
May 17th, 2014 - 09:35 am - Link - Report abuse 0Let me think about that for a millisecond……er……No!
39 Think
May 17th, 2014 - 10:22 pm - Link - Report abuse 0...but she did think about it.....;-)
(42) A_Voice
May 18th, 2014 - 06:20 am - Link - Report abuse 0................................. for a whole millisecond !!!
The wee bonnie lass must be utterly exhausted ;-)
For those interested....
May 18th, 2014 - 09:55 am - Link - Report abuse 0How a failed Scottish colony in Panama led to the Union of Sotland with England ...
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-27405350
@43 Think,
May 18th, 2014 - 10:23 am - Link - Report abuse 0Trying to smooth talk will get you nowhere, oh perfidious one.
The answer is still no.
@45 Isolde
May 19th, 2014 - 12:21 am - Link - Report abuse 0LOL!
“oh perfidious one.” hehee! excellent riposte. Like what you did there. Clever, wonder if anyone else caught the undertones?
Please inform the little monsters that Cap'n Jack of the Carribbean has nothing to fear. The Lady Isolde is sailing now, and they should be afraid!
Very Afraid!
@7 - Conqueror, scotch is a drink. Although this point may seem trivial, it irritates the Scots (aka Scottish people) no end. Also, how dare you say Northern Ireland is “irrelevant”? Just who do you think you are?
May 19th, 2014 - 01:18 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Hey SheMAn have a read of this....
May 20th, 2014 - 02:25 pm - Link - Report abuse 0http://www.aforceforgood.org.uk/debunk/vote1
LOL
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