MercoPress. South Atlantic News Agency
British fans travelling to the Cup in Brazil warned about 'Argentine gangs'
If the recent protests and demonstrations across Brazil prior to the World Cup are any indication of the domestic and public violence that is expected to happen, fans, of all nationalities must be cautious, as the Brazilian military police has warned. Read full article
Comments
Disclaimer & comment rules“they have warned fans of the United Kingdom”
May 24th, 2014 - 07:39 am - Link - Report abuse 0The UK has a team? News to me! I know about England having qulified but this apparent restructuring is a new one!
If we were worried about countries we had wars with, we wouldn't be able to go any fucking where :-)
May 24th, 2014 - 07:51 am - Link - Report abuse 0This venue just gets better and better and better!
May 24th, 2014 - 08:11 am - Link - Report abuse 0Wasn't there a story about their court banning the sharing of criminal intelligence on some of these soccer gangs? Protecting their rights?
Oh and by the way there is no British Police Force, there are however some 40 odd regional and metropolitan forces, Andy Holt is an officer in one of them, London Metropolitan Police. Easy mistake to make.
@1
May 24th, 2014 - 10:43 am - Link - Report abuse 0As I have warned British posters for a year or two here, most people outside the UK have no idea whatsoever, nor do they are one bit, about how you subdivide your country.
UK, British Isles, England/Scotland, all those little dependencies around the world, Commonwealth, head of state in Australia still the queen, etc, etc... not only is it all pointlessly complicated and unnecessary, it is of no concern to non-UKers, as it matters one iota outside the borders of the UK.
Which is why when the British insist Argentina dialogue with the FALKLANDS, it is a non-starter. Not because the Falklanders should not be recognized as a people. They should. But because Argentina's government should not dialogue at the highest level with entities that are NOT sovereign governments. The Falklands are not a sovereign nation, thus do not deserve that level of diplomacy, simple as that.
As I have been warning, most non ANGLOS have no idea about your geographical/political laws, nor do these laws apply to non-British nations.
@2
The difference is the rest of the world has decided to forget or forgive for whatever their reasons. Argentina, having no need for relations with the UK since it is an insignificant player in its economy or politics, does not forget what happened in 1806, 1807 and 1846. Particularly since no apology was ever given for those years.
Argentina is the one country that will never forgive the UK, someone has to do it. I would bet you 3 gold coins. If you look at Argentine history, we never forget about events 20,30, 50, 100 years ago. We have the memory of hundreds of generations.
argentine fans travelling to brazil warned about “english thugs and hooligans”.
May 24th, 2014 - 11:39 am - Link - Report abuse 0“Hundreds of Chelsea fans go on violent rampage through Paris making Nazi salutes and smashing up cafes ahead of European clash”
“Chaos ensued as 400 thugs let off flares, started fights and chanted abuse
Hooligans chanted offensive EDL songs and made 'Sieg Heil' salutes
Police sent riot vans to the crowded streets to try and break up violence
Around 2000 Chelsea fans are in the French capital for European cup tie”
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2595423/Hundreds-Chelsea-fans-violent-rampage-Paris-making-Nazi-salutes-smashing-cafes-ahead-European-clash.html#ixzz32dGBNrTp
@4 What a strange post. First to confirm and revel in your ignorance and then to whine about grudges YOU hold about historical events when your balls haven't even dropped yet.
May 24th, 2014 - 11:47 am - Link - Report abuse 0Stop being so bitter and negative and start living.
@4 “warned”? WE spit on “warnings”. Then WE stamp on them.
May 24th, 2014 - 12:24 pm - Link - Report abuse 0But to continue with a later point in your drivel, I didn't realise argieland had a “government” in the accepted sense. Generally speaking, proper “governments” do their best to act in the best interests of their countries and people. Notable exceptions are China, where most of the “leadership” should be in paddy fields doing something useful, North Korea where the “leader” should be returned to the zoo they got him from, Russia where Putin should be shot, South Africa where Zuma should be returned to the bush wearing a zebra skin and argieland where “government” is only swapped around between criminal gangs. But I do agree that argieland is insignificant. Always has been, always will be. If we were going to “apologise” to anyone for anything in south america in the 19th century, it would be spain. But that won't happen because spain is only a few steps away from war. Only real problem at the moment is trying to find something in spain worth destroying.
@5 Good, isn't it! They could wreck every Brazilian city. Argies will need to be careful. The British Army etc was under military discipline. English football fans won't be under any discipline. My experience is that they don't take any prisoners. And they like to follow their victims back “home”. Always after souvenirs. An ear, a finger, a few teeth (for granny), an eye!
Paul
May 24th, 2014 - 12:27 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I'd love to see English fans behaving ike they did in Paris.
Headlines will read “Brazilian police forces accused of violence” with a picture of a surprised English fan with the typical cara de nabo in a gesture of ignorance...
#2 Yes, the difference is most countries in the world behave like grown ups not like a petulant child who got told off for torturing a small defenceless animal.
May 24th, 2014 - 12:53 pm - Link - Report abuse 0#4 It is your country that constantly demands “negotiation” with the UK to every irrelevant super-national organisation they can find.
8 stevie
May 24th, 2014 - 01:09 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“surprised English fan with the typical cara de nabo”
good one
7 imbecile
“WE spit on “warnings””
jaja... scary
“ My experience is that ...blablabla...and they like to follow their victims back “home””
it seems you have had a bad experience with them.
Bad experience?
May 24th, 2014 - 01:28 pm - Link - Report abuse 0What are you talking about, Paul?
Conqui has been spotted wearing different outdfits on the exact same spot where it happened to him the first time around...
They'll be lucky to keep the light on during the game.
May 24th, 2014 - 01:38 pm - Link - Report abuse 0This should be really fun to watch
I wonder if they are showing it in the USA
Probably just the riots on the news
@12
May 24th, 2014 - 02:04 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The problem is the stores burgers. What's the name?
The chief concern of the British government is that they will conform to the national character and attempt rape Brazilian children. They are so concerned by this probability that it has been mandated that films specifically warning against this behavior be shown to the British tourists on the flights to Brazil.
May 24th, 2014 - 02:58 pm - Link - Report abuse 0In the event that the British do surrender to their desires or they repeat what apparently happened in Paris then the famous Brazilian Argentinian rivalry will express it self in a contest to kill the most British fans. I predict the Brazilians will win because they have access to light infantry weapons and will have the PM on their side.
#4
May 24th, 2014 - 03:05 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“Argentina is the one country that will never forgive the UK”.......
“We have the memory of hundreds of generations.”
You also have the reputation as cowardly back-stabbers.
Interesting concept. By reverse extrapolation, allowing for 6 generations per century, that would give us 12 generations back to the year 1800.
So, Argentinean memory goes back 88 generations before this ?
This would approximate to the year 400 AD.
Remind me again, when did the Spanish arrive in South America and when did Argentina gain it's nationhood ?
As to apologising to Argentina. For what ? You should thank us for letting you off lightly in the 1982 fracas.
Has Argentina apologised for the land it stole from the indigenous population or the land grabs from it's neighbours it has made since it's inception ? Grow up !!
“ having no need for relations with the UK since it is an insignificant player in its economy or politics”
You may think that, being being so parochial that you have no idea what the real world is like outside your trolling experience.
However, your government seems to think differently. Get yourself elected president and enter a brave new world of isolationism OR stay with your self delusion as at present.
Argentina and England will not let these thugs come to Brazil. We already have our thugs, we do not need more.
May 24th, 2014 - 03:17 pm - Link - Report abuse 0https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EPuP_HY_1O8&index=4&list=FLmXPTu1f8AdGlizWNiASx2A
Heysel, Brussels.
May 24th, 2014 - 03:59 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@17 1964 - 300 football fans died in a riot at an Olympic qualifying match between Argentina & Peru.
May 24th, 2014 - 04:09 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Between 1992 & 2002 x 40 people were murdered at football matches in Argentina.
1. Anyone from the UK travelling to Brazil during this World Cup seriously needs their head examined, if they take the flight they take the risk....simple!
May 24th, 2014 - 04:15 pm - Link - Report abuse 02. @4, we won't be talking to you now or anytime, you are a third rate banana republic on the brink of oblivion once again, you are looking down the barrel of another 10 years of global humility. We are advanced beyond your reach now, imagine how many ways we could obliterate you when you find your way to the other side of your next economic collapse. Our naval staff are currently training on the US carrier Harry Truman flying our new F35b aircraft in readiness for our Queen Elizabeth Carrier, which incidentally is to be launched on 4th July. We are prepared for you, are you prepared for us?
@19
May 24th, 2014 - 04:41 pm - Link - Report abuse 0United we are! If the United States make war against us will be doing Civil War.
Texas, California, Arizona, New Mexico, Florida, Colorado, Nevada, MEXICO.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_8jg2U1hvf4
18
May 24th, 2014 - 04:41 pm - Link - Report abuse 01964?
that was in lima and the rioters were peruvian.
the number of murdered people in english football is countless.
not by chance hooliganism is dubbed english disease.
english national teams, clubs and fans should be banned like the uefa did in 1985.
Good to warn the Brits about these barra bravas Argentine 'fans'
May 24th, 2014 - 04:46 pm - Link - Report abuse 0... they *kill* vastly more people than fans of any other country.
Check it out on the internet if you don't believe me.
anyway, what can you expect from england, the country that invented hooliganism, piracy, slave trade and serial killings.
May 24th, 2014 - 05:00 pm - Link - Report abuse 0again, they must be banned for life to attend world cups and european championships.
btw, they suck at football, so not big deal.
But they know how to to deal with invading and would be invading fascists though, Hey what!
May 24th, 2014 - 05:31 pm - Link - Report abuse 0WGAF about football anyway?
#23
May 24th, 2014 - 05:46 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“anyway, what can you expect from england, the country that invented hooliganism, piracy, slave trade and serial killings.”
This comment just demonstrates your stupidity. You are just blinded by hatred of the British for some reason - perhaps its related to your nation's failed invasion - perhaps you lost someone in that invasion - but either way its just sad and pathetic.
@21 Peru -v- Argentina
May 24th, 2014 - 06:19 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Talking about English violence, the last mass shooting in Yankee land.
May 24th, 2014 - 07:01 pm - Link - Report abuse 0A rich English boy rejected by American girls.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/10853875/California-drive-by-shooting-Son-of-Hunger-Games-assistant-director-Elliot-Rodger-suspected-of-killing-six.html
#27
May 24th, 2014 - 07:14 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You do realise that the murder rate in Argentina (5.5) is higher than the US (4.8) and >4 times that in the UK (1.2) so spare us your diatribe about “English violence”.
Amusingly Argentina's rate is much better than other South American nations, e.g. Venezuela (79.0!), Mexico (23.7), or Brazil (21.8).
Got anything to say?
Iraq.
May 24th, 2014 - 07:17 pm - Link - Report abuse 0#29 Bravo... how many Iraqis were directly killed by US and UK troops? How many Iraqis, Iranians, and Kuwaitis died as a result of Saddam's attempted conquests?
May 24th, 2014 - 07:27 pm - Link - Report abuse 030
May 24th, 2014 - 07:35 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“War and occupation directly and indirectly claimed the lives of about a half-million Iraqis from 2003 to 2011”
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2013/10/131015-iraq-war-deaths-survey-2013/
Got anything to say?
#31
May 24th, 2014 - 07:53 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Yeah, a few things:
Firstly, comparing deaths caused by an invasion and the subsequent insecurity is not at all comparable in any meaningful way with the violence in a particular country.
Secondly, most of the deaths in Iraq, while a consequence of the invasion were not caused by UK or US forces but by sectarian violence.
Thirdly, most counts place the death toll around 200,000.
4. Saddam Hussein's regime was responsible for in excess of 1 million direct deaths, largely as a result of invasions to secure more territory or resources and and a desire to maintain power.
5. Had Iraq experienced a full on civil war (as an extension of the Arab spring) the death toll would likely have been much higher. Saddam had already demonstrated his willingness to use weapons of mass destruction against rebelling populations. More than 200,000 have already died in Syria, a smaller country, in a much shorter space of time.
What is evident is that Argentina and other South American countries are currently more violent societies than the UK, or even the US.
Like paulcedron you are just an irrational Anglophobe. I am sorry if you lost someone in the invasion.
I sincerely hope that English fans stay away, after all football is a game for pussies, pulling shirts, diving and remember the hand of God. The day Maradona the cheat claimed a goal by handballing it. We have long memories.Cheating bastards
May 24th, 2014 - 07:53 pm - Link - Report abuse 0#33
May 24th, 2014 - 07:57 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Completely agree - Rugby is both a superior game, and attracts a substantially better class of player and supporter. Even if I am a League fan.
@34
May 24th, 2014 - 08:06 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Personally I enjoy watching both, you never,never see a player running up to a referree and shouting in his face. If that happened in rugby they would be sent to the sinbin for ten minutes. Anyway, rugby is a gentlemans game. Football is for the ignorant masses as can be seen every week on the terracies. Not many fights at rugby matches.
If brazil stands by and allows violence against English fans and others, it may well end any future world cups being held in south America,
May 24th, 2014 - 08:16 pm - Link - Report abuse 0And any violence from argentine fans who deliberately attack English fans, will not only be punished by FIFA but Argentina will never host another cup,
as a matter of fact, England could well see it come to Wembley the home of football.
so do your worst but you will never destroy the game of football to saturate your violent hatred of us..
invented hooliganism, piracy, slave trade and serial killings.
May 24th, 2014 - 08:40 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Hooliganism....Irish possibly some of YOUR antecedents.
Piracy.......has been going on since the first man made a boat and before
England was a country
Slave trade.......read your history about the Romans....your kinfolk.
Serial killings.....happen all over the world.
Try some actual FACTS next time you post.
Hepatia. You seem to have a thing about “child rape” is this your thing ?
@27 Your whataboutery is desperate, as usual. What has this to do with the official warning being given out in respect of Argentine gangs attending the WCF? It is obvious that the the Brazilians are concerned because they requested from the Argentine authorities details of known Argentine football gangs.
May 24th, 2014 - 09:30 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The case you are referring to had nothing to do with football, gangs or the nationality of the young man in question. The young man was mentally ill.
As usual, your bitterness has taken over your senses and you spit our the venomous insinuation that the reason for the man killing was that he was rejected by women and because he was British. You are more than stupid.
32
May 24th, 2014 - 09:59 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Thanks but I didn't lose anybody in the illegal British-American invasion of Iraq.
Violent English rich boy said yesterday:
”“I will kill every single blonde s--- I see” and blamed women for throwing themselves at “obnoxious brutes” but rejecting him, the “supreme gentleman”.
America's latest mass murderer.
Glad that he is not going to Brazil anytime soon.
@39
May 24th, 2014 - 10:20 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Don't tell me, yet another mass killing of innocent young people in NorthAm? But everyone here swears it is a most civilized place!
You would think they are lying to me...
@ 22 GeoffWard2
May 24th, 2014 - 11:03 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“Good to warn the Brits about these barra bravas Argentine 'fans'... they *kill* vastly more people than fans of any other country.”
They haven’t met the Millwall fans yet.
I’d pay good money to see that.
I think more people have been gunned down by deranged EUians and NorthAms just TODAY han Barras Bravas have killed this ENTIRE YEAR.
May 24th, 2014 - 11:05 pm - Link - Report abuse 0http://news.yahoo.com/three-people-killed-shooting-brussels-jewish-museum-161838595.html
Europe and North America, such peaceful havens!
Thank God England will not play in Porto Alegre. If they did, I would seriously expect a lot of troubles from Argentine fans - not the civilized ones, of course, but from the worst lot of the barra bravas.
May 25th, 2014 - 01:17 am - Link - Report abuse 0Porto Alegre is the nearest brazilian capital from Argentina (less than 1 hour flight from Buenos Aires and about 400 km from Entre Rios) and every villero can use half of his earnings to afford a trip by bus.
Since England will not play there, I don't think that they will face any serious problem from argie fans. Argie middle and upper class football fans are great and make a great party, generally without any violence.
42
May 25th, 2014 - 02:06 am - Link - Report abuse 0KIM-JONG-TOBI
I would agree in part Europe is becoming very dangerous indeed, and that is fault of people that think and talk like you. ANTI whites, ANTI western, ANTI European.
To many immigrants and too many PC libtards are going to destroy Europe of its tradition heritage and values.
Brussels is one of the most Muslims cities of Europe, the same happened to the Jewish community in Malmö Sweden.
So what you are saying is that when bad things happen in NorthAm and EUialand, it's the foreigners fault.
May 25th, 2014 - 03:52 am - Link - Report abuse 0That's what the Brits here and the Germans, Spanish, French, and Italians say.
When bad things happen in Argentina, it is the Argentines fault, not the foreigners.
I see the logic.
I’m saying an assault on a synagogue in Brussels is very likely a Muslim originated.
May 25th, 2014 - 04:04 am - Link - Report abuse 0KIM JONG TOBI
You wouldn’t see LOGIC EVEN IF IT HIT YOU IN YOUR FACE IN SOME PHISICAL FORM
“I see the logic.” Is one of the richest statements you have ever made....
Who is Tobi?
May 25th, 2014 - 04:10 am - Link - Report abuse 0Logic is simple: EUians and NorthAmos never to blame, argies always to blame. Same old logic of the last 12 years in this Argentina vs Combined forces of EU/USA/UK/JP/BRA/MEX/CHIL/OZ/China/Russia.
Never has a a country gone up against such a combined World Planetary Force like Argentina against the hatred of all those nations. Look at how they all sue us at the WTO, and even when all them joining forces to subjugate us... are NOT winning!
KIM- JONG-TOBI at his best.
May 25th, 2014 - 04:22 am - Link - Report abuse 0You know you forgot also to include the Republic of Palau, Mongolia, Liberia and the 7 Houses of Westeros, Narnia in the anti Argentina axis ….
“EUians and NorthAmos never to blame”
They are to blame for the problems in their own countries, just like Argentines are to blame for Argentina.
The Europeans with their PC mentality, laws and cowardess are to blame for giving away their country to 3rd world throwbacks. It's nobody elses.
Its simple
You are boring stupid and dull with all this victimization- trolling cycle. You are incredibly retarded to believe yourself!!!
ooh!
May 25th, 2014 - 05:54 am - Link - Report abuse 0Just read the whole thread. Seems like things have got a little heated here!
Well I guess that happens over certain sporting events...
Although I do wonder why TTT is banging on about certain sad events in the US and Hepatia has returned to her (?) fixation on child abuse?
Are these posters utterly deranged?
And may I point out Toby, for the final time, that your “EUians” is not a word or concept recognised in any dictionary, anywhere.
Thank you .
“Same old logic of the last 12 years in this Argentina vs Combined forces of EU/USA/UK/JP/BRA/MEX/CHIL/OZ/China/Russia. ”
May 25th, 2014 - 06:27 am - Link - Report abuse 0Russia, USA, UK and Brasil are all allied against Argentina.
These countries are constantly bashing each other EXCEPT when they face Argentina, the Common Enemy (CE).
Priceless pieces of wisdom.
Russis and China are only interested in what they can exploit from South America at the best price. For them, not Lat Am.
May 25th, 2014 - 07:21 am - Link - Report abuse 0Anyone who thinks that these Countries are 'friends' of Latin America is sadly mistaken.
China is the biggest FDI in Africa now. Does anyone believe this is purely philanthropic?
No, they just want the minerals to drive their economy, just as Britian did with India etc.
This time around China is using Economic Power instead.
Dumb-Ass Argentine Gov believes it is 'sticking it to the man' (US) by getting bed with China....
Oh dear....
Why is that 50% of oil exports to China from Venezuela are to pay of debt?
Venezuela shouldn't have any debt, they have more oil tha Saudi Arabia.
But no chicken. That has to be imported from Brazil.
Venezuela currently owes Brazil $3.5 BILLLION and can't pay.
China is not your friend.
You are deeply in the shit-hole.
ALBA. Stop digging!
Argentina , always the victim, if you paid your debts and honoured your contracts you would not have so many judgements against you. You will not get foreign investments from the West until you man up and be honest. But the problem is that you have done it so long that it will take decades to rebuild that trust if at all.
May 25th, 2014 - 07:38 am - Link - Report abuse 0@52 golfcronie
May 25th, 2014 - 08:03 am - Link - Report abuse 0Good point! Always the victim, but nevers honours their debts.
I am sure that the financial big boys are aware. No harm in pointing out again because they still don't get it!
However, back on topic;
“British fans travelling to the Cup in Brazil warned about 'Argentine gangs'”
Argentine Gangs?
No warning about Belgian or Costa Rican Gangs?
What about the Chilean or German gangs then?
hmmm....
Only warnings about the usual toublemakers then.....
Those Belgians are notoriously hard bastards...... aren't they?
hehhehheh!
tRoll_with_the_Punches , paulcedron, and Marcos all keep banging on about how violent “anglo” countries are seemingly without realising that the murder rate in Argentina is 4 times greater than the UK and above the US. Other South American countries are dramatically higher.
May 25th, 2014 - 10:30 am - Link - Report abuse 0You are all hypocrites.
@11 “spotted”? argies are famous for “spotting”. They get out of bed and leave a “spot”. They walk to the back yard and leave “spots” all the way. Helps them to find their way back! In the Falklands, they left “spots”. Excrement first because they aren't potty-trained. Then blood. No urine “spots”. No time to get the trousers off whilst running.
May 25th, 2014 - 10:46 am - Link - Report abuse 0@14 Hilarious. With a bag over their heads, how would they tell the difference?
And this seems to be the truth. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2638094/World-Cup-warning-child-prostitution-girls-young-11-forced-walk-streets-Brazil-targeting-foreign-tourists-sex.html
@15 Interesting thoughts. But how would you expect them to keep count? All argies are the illegitimate issue of whoring bitches.
@17 “Heysel, Brussels”. Yep, a sad day for the Belgians with their crap stadium, and the Italians who started the trouble by throwing rocks at the Brits.
@20 It IS difficult for a cretin to tell the difference between the United Kingdom and the United States, as you prove. The difference is that the UK is the nation that trounced your neighbour. The USA is the one that turns up years late and then pretends it won.
@23 Strange how the Romans (Italians) had riots, the Romans (Italians) had pirates, the slave trade started long before the Romans (Italians) but was continued by the spanish. And didn't the spanish and argies go for serial killings? Thought that was how they got where they are today.
@36 Brazil shouldn't even be allowed to host THIS World Cup! Uncompleted venues, inadequate air transport, threats of violence. If you must go, take a bayonet!
@39 What was “illegal” about it? Because there was no UN resolution? You think the UN is some sort of “world government”? Is that why your cow keeps rushing off there to complain? But you don't pay any attention to it anyway, unless it suits you. So shove your “illegal” up your jacksie!
All of you campora ranters who are so against the UK...are you aware that Britain gives Argentina 2 million pounds a year in foreign aid? And as for violence, did everyone see the picture of the alleged thief who was “crucified” by the police in the province of Cordoba?
May 25th, 2014 - 12:25 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You are not saints....look Ive read at english schools a kid apuñaló a teacher, and other put lavandina in her cup of tea. Nice kids.
May 25th, 2014 - 01:32 pm - Link - Report abuse 0And what about those isles, so romantic isles.... read in Google: F.I. supreme court critiques local social services.
Examples examples for you too, MC.
You have to have some sympathy for the last stand supporters of La Campora. They believed the lies and supported a government that betrayed them. What can they do now? Lash out and try to make out that somewhere, anywhere, is worse than the mess they are in.
May 25th, 2014 - 01:36 pm - Link - Report abuse 0There is crime everywhere in differing levels and some football hooligans (they are not supporters as they are more interested in violence than football) across the globe use their team allegiance as an excuse to behave like a gang of criminals. It is not confined to one country but taps into a certain mentality that afflicts all countries.
The only differences here are that the 'liaison officers' from England are there to route out known football hooligans, if they manage to leave the country to attend. The police have worked hard to prevent such people from attending the WCFs. How much trouble did England fans cause at the last WC?
On the other hand, the Argentine authorities have refused to share any intelligence on their football hooligans with the Brazilian authorities and they are free to attend in gangs. The barras braves were in evidence at the last WCFs.
And the only warning being put out is about Argentine gangs.
“on the other hand, the Argentine authorities have refused ...”
May 25th, 2014 - 01:48 pm - Link - Report abuse 0www.infobae.com/2014/05/16/1565077-el-gobierno-entrego-el-listado-barrabravas-las-autoridades-brasil-cara-al-mundial
Arg gave the list of barrabravas to Brasil and the federal police is going to the WC.
We wont play against UK or England, anyway.
I think Brazilians are being generous....England fans will not have a reason to stay very long in the WC.
May 25th, 2014 - 02:04 pm - Link - Report abuse 0neither Argentina, to pass second round
May 25th, 2014 - 02:34 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Messi has not being playing well.
Who cares, no one about European teams in the World Cup. They are just filler.
May 25th, 2014 - 02:40 pm - Link - Report abuse 0People want to see Brazil, Argentina, and that's it. That's where the players people want to see play. Neymar, Messi, Di Maria, Aguero, etc.
Ozil? Rooney? Ballotelli? Ribery?
No one even knows in South America who they are, except me and only because I watch European news broadcasts in their languages.
@62 You really have to stop being so egocentric. Your view of the world of ONLY your view, not the view of all South Americans. Honestly, whilst all people are born egocentric, most have out grown it by the age of 9. Some take a little longer and the few that do not outgrow it are the sociopaths.
May 25th, 2014 - 02:48 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I watched some Argentine football players being interviewed and they were very keen on European football. Mostly because that is where they choose to play for good quality football and decent money. Argentina exports more football players than any other country in South America.
@61
May 25th, 2014 - 03:04 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Even with Messi out of the picture Argentina has a straight forward highway to the semifinals where they will probably face off Spain or Italy.
This system that FIFA (which has head teams on each group of the knock outs) has used ever since Korea-Japan 2002 nowadays prevents small surprises and the big teams clashing in early stages.
Footballers, a load of pooftahs, mamby pambies, give me rugby anyday, a mans game.
May 25th, 2014 - 04:17 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Roll @ 4
May 25th, 2014 - 05:03 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I'm neither British nor Argentine, but it seerms to me that what you describe as the “pointlessly complicated” British political and administrative system has been a damn sight more successful than the Argentine one.
I have no trouble understanding the British system and the Commonwealth. Why do you say Argentines do? Something wrong?
Elaine is right.
May 25th, 2014 - 06:02 pm - Link - Report abuse 0All countries have these mindless morons who travel the world for one thing only and it ain't it the football.
Where the UK Police identify them, they obtain orders banning their travel
Football violence is not endemic to the UK it's an international problem and anyone who says otherwise is fooling no one!
“Where the UK Police identify them, they obtain orders banning their travel”
May 25th, 2014 - 06:08 pm - Link - Report abuse 0yeah, right...
“Chelsea Headhunters on rampage in Paris: 300 football hooligans smash-up shops as they fight with Paris St Germain supporters”
http://www.standard.co.uk/news/crime/chelsea-headhunters-on-rampage-in-paris-300-football-hooligans-smashup-shops-as-they-fight-with-paris-st-germain-supporters-9235039.html
“Violence in Stuttgart: German Police Confront English Hooligans
English soccer fans in Stuttgart for the England-Ecuador match on Sunday caused some of the worst hooligan violence seen at the World Cup so far. On Saturday night, police arrested 400 people and banned many from entering the city center. Authorities fear further unrest.”
http://www.standard.co.uk/news/crime/chelsea-headhunters-on-rampage-in-paris-300-football-hooligans-smashup-shops-as-they-fight-with-paris-st-germain-supporters-9235039.html
What part of, Where identified, do you fail to comprehend.
May 25th, 2014 - 06:20 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Also, look up border controls, or lack thereof within the EU.
You expect me to believe you have no soccer violence in Argentina?
Good to warn the Brits about these barra bravas Argentine 'fans'
May 25th, 2014 - 07:04 pm - Link - Report abuse 0... they *kill* more people than the fans of any other country.
Check it out on the internet if you don't believe me.
you are not the smartest of the bunch, are you?
May 25th, 2014 - 07:04 pm - Link - Report abuse 0the uk police / justice should ban their travel BEFORE they left their country.
considering the number of british criminals you can find around the globe (ask the dutch, spanish, italians, etc), it is clear that the uk border controls are a joke.
then it is the local police who has to arrest those british thugs.
#68
May 25th, 2014 - 07:04 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I am neutral on this however, in the interest of fairness see below.
ww.google.co.uk/?gfe_rd=cr&ei=PjuCU-ufH8no8QOD-4CwAQ#q=soccer+violence+in+argentina
From 1924 to 2010 there were 249 deaths (250 with the Argentine recently died in South Africa) related to Argentine football (if the 300 dead in Perú in 1964 aren't counted).[
I presume, in the reference to the Paris ST.Germain fracas, these were some of C***'s acolytes !
55@
May 25th, 2014 - 07:13 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I totally agree.
I am not the smartest of the bunch?
May 25th, 2014 - 07:18 pm - Link - Report abuse 0That's a laugh!
What UK border controls?
Are you thick or something, didn't I just suggest you look up the lack of them courtesy of the EU.
You just posted links British hooliganism in Germany.
GERMANY IS IN THE EU THERE ARE NO BORDER CONTROLS.
Jesus Christ, what do you want me to do, DRAW YOU A PICTURE, SPEAK IN WORDS OF ONE SYLLABLE SO YOU CAN UNDERSTAND?
Here's a hint, I need a passport to travel to Brazil, I do not need a passport to travel anywhere within the EU.!!!!!!
lol..
May 25th, 2014 - 07:23 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Like his idea of prohibiting criminals, oh by the way, is that just football hooligans or all criminals from travelling abroad. Is that just suspected criminals or people with criminal records? Hmm, hundreds of thousands here, probably none in his Utopian state.
May 25th, 2014 - 08:25 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Saying that, I am not quite sure what the UCHR would say about it.
Which brings us right back to the EU.
Shit and my gran thought she was voting to belong to a trading union. Took her a long time to get use to that funny new money!
@66
May 26th, 2014 - 01:29 am - Link - Report abuse 0You have your right to an opinion on which system has been more successful, but I have the right to state it is too complicated and stuffy.
YOU DO NOT HAVE THE RIGHT to insinuate that one must understand the British administrative system otherwise “something is wrong”, with Argentines. That is utterly unacceptable and elitist.
If so, then I could state that I can speak almost 7 languages and anyone not up to that standard has “something wrong” with them.
boludo 74
May 26th, 2014 - 01:39 am - Link - Report abuse 0“Here's a hint, I need a passport to travel to Brazil, I do not need a passport to travel anywhere within the EU.!!!!!!!”
the uk is not part of the schengen area.
even though you don't need a passport, you need your id card.
that should be enough for the useless uk police for arresting their own scum in their own soil.
it seems you do not travel too much, do you?
You know for all the British protestations about Argie Barra Bravas, the fact of the matter is ALL major incidents of WORLD CUP VIOLENCE have the BRITISH at the center.
May 26th, 2014 - 01:46 am - Link - Report abuse 01998 (against Arabs, what a shock here!)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=18-tiD-lZRM
2006 (lol, the English weren't even playing, they were just pissed Germany didn't lose and spat on German flags in front of Germans... smart people the Brits!)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=18-tiD-lZRM
There's “European civilization” for you.
Argentina 1000 times better.
You can't judge all English fans based on the minority hooligan element just as you can't judge all Argentine fans based on their hooligan problem. In both countries the hooligans are idiotic nobbers locked in their pitiful worlds with similar minded tools.
May 26th, 2014 - 03:21 am - Link - Report abuse 0As for football v rugby debate on manliness....yes, pro footballers are an embarassment with their diving, play acting and abuse of refs. However, the rugger bugger games in the changing rooms of many a rugby team also highlight a homosexual tendency if not physical sexual abuse of some poor sod.
Americans don't care about rugby or football, their #1 is recreational shooting:
May 26th, 2014 - 03:27 am - Link - Report abuse 0http://news.yahoo.com/3-dead-1-wounded-shooting-us-beach-motel-013703942.html
Pato is more exciting and a man's sport anyway. Not for EUians and NorthAms.
Roll @ 77
May 26th, 2014 - 03:49 am - Link - Report abuse 0I'm flummoxed. Please explain the concept of speaking “almost 7 languages”. Do you mean six, or five? Anyway, it's a damned fine effort. Congratulations! I wonder if you do anything useful with them?
Did I say “something” wrong with Argentina? Actually there's a hell of a lot wrong with Argentina.
@78
May 26th, 2014 - 07:50 am - Link - Report abuse 0Ffs look it up.
If you are a citizen of the EU YOU DO NOT NEED A PASSPORT OR ID CARD to cross borders in the Schengen area.
It is ADVISED you carry an ID card.
Which is a bit ferkin difficult for us because we do not have them!
As for travelling, Honk Kong, Turkey, Cprus, Sardinia, Thailand, Germany, Belgium, Netherlands, Sweden, Vietnam, Malaysia, US. Even had the privilege of living in some of them for several years. What about you ever been out of RG land.
As for scum UK Police, that's rich coming from an Argentine.
Tell me what were your finest doing when thousands, thousands of your people were being abducted from their homes and murdered.
Oh by the way, they can not strike, so we do not have the problems you do, which is just has well, because we do not have Para Military Police either .
#81
May 26th, 2014 - 09:38 am - Link - Report abuse 0How many Argentinians gallop around on their horses playing “pato” ?
It is only for the rich who can afford to keep a horse. I hardly see it being played on your beaches by the unwashed masses.
Do you take part in it or any other sport ?
83
May 26th, 2014 - 11:51 am - Link - Report abuse 0http://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/travel/entry-exit/eu-citizen/index_es.htm
http://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/travel/entry-exit/eu-citizen/index_es.htm
“Tell me what were your finest doing when thousands, thousands of your people were being abducted from their homes and murdered.”
i was in primary school.
so?
Paul @ 85
May 26th, 2014 - 12:30 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I don't think Reality @ 83 was referring to you personally. In English “our or your finest” usually means the police.
Hope this helps.
86 ynsere
May 26th, 2014 - 12:59 pm - Link - Report abuse 0yes it helps, thanks a lot.
83
after the clarification of ynsere, a big part of them were kidnapping people.
but that was +/-40 years ago
@84
May 26th, 2014 - 01:22 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I played it once, but because I was a minor, knives, mazes, and throwing me or the opponent under the path of the galloping horses was not allowed.
I am too afraid to play it today for those reasons, I admit. I would like to but only when I finish with my personal goals.
@82
I find many things wrong with YOU.
Good to warn the Brits about these barra bravas Argentinian football 'fans'.
May 26th, 2014 - 02:04 pm - Link - Report abuse 0These are *killers*, not football hooligans; they have **killed** large numbers of fans they don't like.
The hooligan fans of other countries run and shout;
... these Argentinians enjoy **killing** football fans.
Roll @ 88
May 26th, 2014 - 03:22 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Oh dear, Rolly! Should I worry? LOL.
“but only when I finish with my personal goals. ” We have heard all this before TTT…..Who remembers the big plot to bring us all down? It failed and you posted this: (His spelling mistakes included)
May 26th, 2014 - 03:46 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“I only participated as an attache to that failed operation. I had no control over the fact that others decided to utilize the gathered information for individual gain.
This project is 100% under my control, believe me, it will take place. And actually will shock YOU most of all! So fitting that you would comment first.
My long term planning is beyond your comprehension.”
We should just be thankful that TTT is too poor to actually carry out his 'plan'. But his state of mind is worryingly similar to other disaffected youths we read about in the media.
@85
May 26th, 2014 - 03:59 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Thank you for looking up the link.
It states that you are advised to carry a passport or ID should you required to produce it for the police etc. That some countries are considering making it a legal requirement. Though I must admit i already thought it already was in most member states.
However as this thread is about Football Hooliganism, I would think that the last thing a travelling football fan, intent on criminal behaviour, would worry about would be possessing the correct papers. Probably go back home, get on the next boat, train or plane and try their luck again.
My point is that they can travel throughout the EU without a passport, as I say, we do not have ID cards. There is no way they can board a plane to Brazil without one. Seize their passports and they are effectively stopped in their tracks from travelling anywhere outside the EU.
As for the my comment on the police, look to your own system before you comment on others, otherwise it smacks of Hypocricy.
@91
May 26th, 2014 - 04:19 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Unlike Anglos my dear, I have something called MORALS and COMPASSION. I won't be going on a killing spree of complete strangers don't worry. Argentines don't do that, that is an EUian/NorthAm cultural/genetic thing.
And yes my long term project is STILL ON. I admit running a little behind schedule but that is only due to the monumental undertaking I have been in. This year or next it will be carried through, and then you fools will eat TWO/THREE YEARS worth of words directed at me, and of my “ignorance”.
You will have the indigestion of your lifetimes chewing so many consonants up.
@93 I want to laugh at you but you worry me. You are mentally unhinged.
May 26th, 2014 - 04:33 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Since you love to read, look at the profile of the young man Elliot Rodger, it is you. The disaffected loner, full of hatred, a manifesto, God complex, never had a girlfriend, mentally unstable. The only difference is you can't afford a gun, for which we should be grateful. But you are still working on you plan of 'world domination' 'for which we will all be sorry'.
You need help. And the moderators here should recognise the fact.
OR
May 26th, 2014 - 04:35 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“I love me, who do you love .”
“won't be going on a killing spree of complete strangers don't worry”
May 26th, 2014 - 05:02 pm - Link - Report abuse 0http://www.radiobrisas.com/2014/02/26/total-repudio-la-agresion-que-sufrio-el-centro-de-residentes-bolivianos
#93
May 26th, 2014 - 05:04 pm - Link - Report abuse 0What was it you tried in 1982 when you attacked the Falklands with your armed forces? “a killing spree of complete strangers” Argentines don't do that, that is an EUian/NorthAm cultural/genetic thing. If that is the case what were they doing with armoured vehicles against a small civilian population ?
The bulk of Argentines genetics come from Spanish/Italian sources. or have you morphed into something strangely different to the rest of the human race....you seem to have and it seems to be a regressive step !
You remind me of Caligula in I Claudius when he decided to change into a God. Is this your master plan or is it something out of X men !
92
May 26th, 2014 - 06:31 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“As for the my comment on the police, look to your own system before you comment on others, otherwise it smacks of Hypocricy.”
that is exactly my point.
everybody here knows the class of shitty police we have.
now it seems that you and this 4th class newspaper should look to your own system before you comment on others.
This “4th class newspaper” is primarily focused on South American topics and written in English.
May 26th, 2014 - 09:22 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Why should posters be “looking at their 'own ' systems” before commenting?
That is the same as saying that posters on a Japanese language site, primarily concerned with African topics, shouldn't comment unless
a) they were Japanese speaking Africans
or
b) they were Japanese and Japan was a completely perfect place with a spotlessly clean history.
Otherwise your statement is utterly illogical and pointless.
I consider newspapers such as The Sun and The Express and The Daily Mail to be “4th class newspapers” and as such I almost never ever read them and I certainly DON'T POST FUCKIN WHINEY ANGRY VICTIM-MENTALLITY CRAP ON THEIR MESSAGE BOARDS!
Jesus Christ on a bike! What a loser!
Ok, rant over.
As you were.
pelotudo 99
May 26th, 2014 - 09:36 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“Otherwise your statement is utterly illogical and pointless. ”
tel that to your frend @92:
“As for the my comment on the police, look to your own system before you comment on others, otherwise it smacks of Hypocricy.”
boludo x1000
Yes, he is commenting on South American police. On a website mainly concerned with South America.
May 27th, 2014 - 12:14 am - Link - Report abuse 0I can read English.
You should try in some time.
Roll @ 93
May 27th, 2014 - 02:03 am - Link - Report abuse 0Argentines don't go on killing sprees? Bollocks! 30,000 murdered during the dictatorship plus several thousand sent to the Falklands as cannon fodder.
@98
May 27th, 2014 - 05:42 am - Link - Report abuse 0My point exactly, there is no comparison.
As for the Sun or many other newspapers, since when did any of them let a little thing like the truth get in the way of a story, it's always border line truth, embellished to the point where they can just legally get away with it. Hence the reason for them employing so many lawyers.
Used to be it was the domain of the Editors whether to publish, he still holds it but only through the. “Legal Department.”
tRoll_with_the_Punches (#93)
May 27th, 2014 - 08:20 am - Link - Report abuse 0'I won't be going on a killing spree of complete strangers don't worry. Argentines don't do that ...'
Many Argentinians don't go on 'killing sprees' but some two or three thousand Argentinian football 'fans' are so fanatic that killing is EXACTLY what they do.
These are the 'barra bravas'.
Their murders of opposing fans are very well documented on the internet and elsewhere.
It is wise that British fans are forewarned that they may well be faced with football fans that are well used to killing opposition fans.
I just hope that Brasil finds ways, both legal and 'pragmatic', of restricting the entry to Brasil of these Argentinian 'barra bravas' murderers.
let´s hope brasil can find ways of restricting the entry of those english hooligans.
May 27th, 2014 - 12:40 pm - Link - Report abuse 0they are known for killing opposite fans.
probably they should also ban the entry of any english fan.
they are known for being drunk 24 hours a day.
Well, if they are going to try it on the first thing I'm going to do is get tooled up. Not that I'm looking for a fight but I WILL defend myself.
May 27th, 2014 - 02:13 pm - Link - Report abuse 0These are regular argie fans.
May 27th, 2014 - 02:21 pm - Link - Report abuse 0https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fau4RkZxpJo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fau4RkZxpJo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fau4RkZxpJo
Just people having fun. Barra bravas are just a small %% of them. THEY are the problem.
Hello Everyone,
May 27th, 2014 - 02:38 pm - Link - Report abuse 0This Thread contains far too much loudmouthed, mindless violence and ill-informed claptrap to merit its detailed perusal by yours truly, I’m afraid.
However, having taken a perfunctory shufti at this nauseating nonsense, I cannot see any reference to the fundamental cause of the inane discussion it has excited among the chattering classes, worlwide…
WHO INVENTED THE FRIGGIN’ STUPID GAME OF FOOTBALL, ANYWAY?
But it seems that we demonic Britons are to blame, as always!!!
Thank God for the Rwgby, bach!
Jim, in Madrid.
I for one am gutted that Jim doesn't find this thread of enough merit for his detailed perusal. I for one am sobbing, heartbroken that I won't have to keep scrolling past the old windbag.
May 27th, 2014 - 03:17 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Apparently this thread is far too full of 'violence'. Which is odd, considering that violence is an act, not an adjective. ..
perhaps he meant violent language?
But then again, who really cares?
Jim is honest enough to say he doesn't know.
May 27th, 2014 - 03:34 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Paulcedron and ricagp are valiantly arguing from a position of lack of knowledge -
vicious killing has NEVER been a feature of the British fan-base;
vicious killing has been the constant feature of the Argentinian fan-base, the 2000-3000 'barra bravas'.
The 'barra bravas' are those that should be refused entry to Brasil for the FIFA World Cup. And, self-evidently, they should NEVER be allowed into the UK.
I can see you feel very strongly about this, Geoff.
May 27th, 2014 - 03:56 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I often wonder if Argentina is trapped in some time warp 2 or 3 decades ago…. the music played there would support that theory. Football hooliganism was certainly a big problem back in the 70's and even 80's in the UK. It was more about gang mentality than football. It was further fuelled by extensive coverage in the newspaper. As a story it sold papers, so it featured regularly. That is not to say it was not prevalent in other countries, but it was less reported. Now incidents are sporadic and quickly dealt with.
Wind forward to the present day - or some decades in the future, from the Argentine perspective - and football hooliganism has been very effectively dealt with in the UK. Extensive work by the police forces using intelligence and containment methods has weeded out the worst of it. The football clubs have worked hard to make it a family friendly sport. They ban for life troublemakers. Employers sack people convicted of being involved in trouble at games and the police will remove passports. The UK has led the way in stamping out trouble.
The same cannot be said for many other countries. Countries that are far more notorious for violence at football games. Google the subject and you can see the facts.
Read the title of the thread again. England fans are being warned about Argentine football gangs, not the other way around.
@111
May 27th, 2014 - 04:07 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“I often wonder if Argentina is trapped in some time warp 2 or 3 decades ago…. the music played there would support that theory. Football hooliganism was certainly a big problem back in the 70's and even 80's in the UK. ”
You are wrong Argentine regular fans were always very sentimental, creative and loud.
UK hooligans ware independent gangs as you say, fair enough. The Barra bravas are linked to the management brass of clubs in Argentina and the AFA and that has being a historical fact.
Barra Bravas are also linked to different the Unions and politicians and can act as clash groups and thugs as well.
not a surprise many readers of this 4th class newspaper think that the problem is solved in the uk since 20 or 30 years ago, and that the hooligans suddenly became in discalced carmelites or nobel peace prizes.
May 27th, 2014 - 04:51 pm - Link - Report abuse 0guess it would be a bit different if they were properly informed.
2014
“Chelsea Headhunters on rampage in Paris: 300 football hooligans smash-up shops as they fight with Paris St Germain supporters”
2006
“Violence in Stuttgart: German Police Confront English Hooligans
113
May 27th, 2014 - 05:11 pm - Link - Report abuse 0My case is that Argentine fans are generally ok and quite civilized. Argentine regular fans would not do that.
The problem is what starts from Grondona downwards in Argentina. It’s a whole range of stuff that stinks of shit from the AFA
AFA more than ever stinks of shit and now we are subsidizing corrupt and bankrupt clubs that have to sell players as soon as they can off to Europe to remain solvent. So Argentine Football becomes very poor quality with clubs that are complete rubbish with many historical clubs threatened and about to lose category.
The latest of making the first division tournaments up to 36 teams is going to increase this process. It putting lipstick on a pig it’s still a pig.
You just have to put a couple of Barra leaders in jail, police and do intelligence on their behavior and stop the funding from the “dirigencia” and the government and they are as good as gone.
@114 My case is that Argentine fans are generally ok and quite civilized. Argentine regular fans would not do that.
May 27th, 2014 - 06:46 pm - Link - Report abuse 0It is the same for the UK fans. Hooligan gangs have very little to do with football but use the occasions as an excuse.
@113 Now link all the cases of violence by the Argentine gangs.
Why do you think the Brazilians have issued this warning?
For: 109 ilsen
May 27th, 2014 - 07:37 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Re: “Apparently this thread is far too full of violence.”
Ain’t it summat called journalese? –in deference to your delicate linguistic sensibility, I won’t be such a presumptuous windbag as to claim poetic licence…
I never have been much of a grammarian but as far I know, English is the only European language which tolerates the use of nouns as adjectives and similar idiomatic ingenuities, albeit somewhat grudgingly.
Re: “I for one am sobbing, heartbroken that I won't have to keep SCROLLING PAST the old windbag”.
If you simply scroll past my messages, how the heck do you manage scrutinize their content in such nitpicking detail –plumbing way down into the profound depths where rest their “Tin-Tack-Tic” minutiae?
It seems that someone DOES care about what I say, even if it’s only you.
May I go out to play now, Sir?!
Jim, in Madrid.
@94
May 28th, 2014 - 03:26 am - Link - Report abuse 0“Since you love to read, look at the profile of the young man Elliot Rodger. The disaffected loner, full of hatred, a manifesto, God complex, never had a girlfriend, mentally unstable”
Yep, typical rich English young man.
@117 Another childish comment.
May 28th, 2014 - 07:49 am - Link - Report abuse 0#93
May 28th, 2014 - 09:01 am - Link - Report abuse 0“You will have the indigestion of your lifetimes chewing so many consonants up.”
Grammatical error here. A sentence should not normally end in a preposition.
It should be “chewing UP so many consonants.”
As a professed linguist I thought you would like to know when you misuse the English language. You can rely on me to keep you correct in this matter.
Uruguay has been encountering increasing violence both within stadiums and outside when there are important football matches. The consensus across the political spectrum is that the clubs aren't doing enough to eliminate it and the “English formula” must be put in place. Nobody has mentioned an Argentine formula.
May 28th, 2014 - 10:01 am - Link - Report abuse 0“Chelsea Headhunters on rampage in Paris: 300 football hooligans smash-up shops as they fight with Paris St Germain supporters” (paulcedron #113)
May 28th, 2014 - 10:21 am - Link - Report abuse 0Paul,
this may have been true (it must be if the Daily Mail says so;)
but the reason for the anger was not reported in that paper.
Disabled wheelchair supporters from Chelsea were ranked along the pitch-side by the PSG officials and, throughout the game, were pelted with bottles from the PSG stands; both empty bottles and those re-filled with urine.
You can be easily killed by a head blow from a thrown bottle, and bottling the disabled who can neither protect themselves or escape is distinctly cowardly.
Without condoning Chelsea's reply, I do at least understand it.
121 geoff.
May 28th, 2014 - 03:44 pm - Link - Report abuse 0agree with you in that case
PART 1.
May 28th, 2014 - 06:56 pm - Link - Report abuse 0For: 119 Clyde15
Re: “You will have the indigestion of your lifetimes chewing so many consonants up
&
A sentence should not normally end in a preposition.”, et cetera.
& very particularly:
Grammatical error here. (ACCORDING TO YOUR OWN RULES, THIS VERY ORATION OF YOURS’ IS GRAMMATICALLY INCOMPLETE –WORK IT OUT, CLEVER CLOGS)
Nonetheless, to a limited extent, I sympathize with your contention for, as a schoolboy during the 1930/40’s, I was often rapped over the knuckles with a rule (NOT a ruler) for failing to live by your exquisitely scrupulous linguistic canons. Kids of my day, were even taught punctuation –arbitrarily daft tricks such as NOT to place a full stop (period) after the contractions: Dr, Mr, Mrs, Messrs, St and the like because in these cases, the abbreviation has the same final letter as that of the complete version of the word. Whereas shortened forms such as: Co., Esq., Etc., The Hon., The Rev., The Ven. ad nauseam, MUST end in a full stop ‘cos both fcuking forms of the expression DO NOT share the same final letter…
However you and my late teachers are/were quite wrong for English has no “Academy of the Language” to dictate, “ow she gotabee spoke un writ”.
In order to avoid communicative chaos we Anglophones must rely on dictionaries –who’s sole, tenuous didactic authority derives from the fact that they are mere records that reflect the anarchic, popular taste of their day. Furthermore, I’m all in favour of shedding linguistic shackles, provided that in doing so, one liberates summat humorous, original and/or lyrical.
Do remember “Moses Supposes His Toeses Is Roses…” and many other great songs from Musical Theatre!
And didn’t Shakespeare INVENT many NEW words, not only to vividly invoke his dramatic musings from his thespians’ lips but to make his phrases fit the metre of his prose, too? And look where that erstwhile impertinent young bugger’s literary reputation is today –hardly in tatters!
@ 123 JimHandley
May 28th, 2014 - 07:38 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Please continue.
For: 119 Clyde15
May 28th, 2014 - 09:07 pm - Link - Report abuse 0PART 2.
Also, is it true that the consummate orator Churchill once jokingly refer in the Commons, to summat along the lines of: “offensive impertinence, up with which I will not put.”?
See:
http://itre.cis.upenn.edu/~myl/languagelog/archives/001715.html
and similar Sites.
Incidentally, do you know that CLYDE (the river) is a Welsh name? As recently as 400 years’ ago, Welsh was spoken throughout most of western mainland Britain The use of Welsh was common parlance from far down in the southwest –modern Cornish and even the Breton currently spoken in N.W. France– are forms of Welsh and its employ extended right up to Clydeside itself. Of course, a tribe of ancient IRISH Rockers founded Scotland –see: Dál Riata/Scoti/Scotti– diverse names for a people who invaded the western region of what has become present-day Scotland. Subsequently the Irish settlers amalgamated with the Picts to their northeast; and to their south, they merged with the Welsh tribes who then inhabited the zone now called The Lowlands. “NOT MANY PEOPLE KNOW THAT” (amongst the unaware will be that shifty scion of Scotia, Salmond, I should think; and of course, many more of Alba’s offspring, of all opinions will also be as yet uninformed of this fascinating historical fact) I’m one of the few who DO ‘KNOW ‘cos I was in the Korean War with Michael Caine. Anyway how the Scots vote in their own referendum ain’t my business. But I DO fear, that –whatever the result– they’ll end up being hoodwinked by their devious politicians, just as everyone else usually is…
Moral: Don’t try to teach your Grandpa how to suck friggin’ eggs!
Regarding my glottal-stopping consonants and über-Dickensian alliterations…
Mr Micawber is my favourite figure in literature. Not just for his pompous, pedantic presence, his utterly idiotic bumbling personal demeanour, his completely unwarranted optimistic outlook on the future, but above all, for his singular inability to manage his financial matters and for hi
#125
May 28th, 2014 - 11:05 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I will try not to use 2000 plus characters in my reply.
Like you, I was also taught grammar and punctuation at school in the 1940's/ 50's.. Finishing a sentence with a preposition was taught as grammatically incorrect. I still have my old book on English grammar which confirmed this and also my Bradley's The Making of English.
”However you and my late teachers are/were quite wrong for English has no “Academy of the Language” to dictate, “ow she gotabee spoke un writ”.
Interesting concept. If you are saying that there should be no rules for the language, then it ceases to be English and it has morphed into a patois. Over time it will develop into a separate language.
As to your other points in #125,yes, I am fully conversant with the origin of the peoples of Scotland and how the country developed over the centuries, as far as our current knowledge goes.
We are a mixture of the first neolithic settlers, who came WESTWARDS across the land bridge from Europe after the ice age, then Picts, Britons, Irish, Norse, Angles and any number of more recent nationalities.
What language the original settlers spoke is not known.
As to Clyde being Welsh, who knows. Others have attributed it to a pre Roman goddess.
The name of the town of Ayr, where I live, appears all over Europe and it's origin is lost in the mists of time.
I am not an expert in these matters but my daughter, who is a Senior Management Officer for Historic Scotland dealing in neolithic to early iron age archaeology, keeps me informed in current trends and discoveries.
At the end of this post I have had to look up the original topic. We have digressed somewhat.
Indeed!
May 29th, 2014 - 12:16 am - Link - Report abuse 0PART 3 of 4.
May 29th, 2014 - 09:02 am - Link - Report abuse 0First, kindly indly permit me thank you for an interesting exchange of ideas and to respond to a couple of points you make in your esteemed reply too my message.
Re: “Interesting concept. If you are saying that there should be no rules for the language, then it ceases to be English and it has morphed into a patois. Over time it will develop into a separate language.”
I agree with your premise but please note I make no suggestion for a change in the status quo. I simply state a bald fact –the use/misuse of English is not policed by any ‘official’ entity.
Re: “Tourist Bodies”,
The people in these organizations –or rather their forerunners, perhaps– cannot be trusted 100%. In their desire to make money, such societies have already created spectres in the guise of the characteristic kilted Scot and the typical, shawl-clad, stovepipe-hatted Welsh female. Both these fictional sets of attire ain’t much more than century old.
PART 3 of 4.
Mr Micawber is my favourite figure in literature. Not just for his pompous, pedantic persona, his utterly idiotic bumbling, bombastic, personal demeanour, his completely unwarranted optimistic outlook on the future, but above all, for his singular inability to manage his financial matters and for his consequent, eternal impecuniosities. In short, Sir, Micawber reminds me of a man with whom I’m only too well acquainted, Sir –to wit Sir, your ‘umble servant, Sir!
Perhaps you’ve not had the signal honour of serving your sovereign and are therefore unaware that in the Army, flippant behaviour such as my intentional use of overly adjectival circumlocutions is known as ‘piss-taking’ and is meant to be humorous.
However, with few notable exceptions such as your own, those who bother to peruse my Posts are obviously not interested in my feeble attempts at jocularity. Possibly that’s because some of my readers are of the cultural class of those who become fervent football fans and thus emulate the tribal behaviour of primitiv
#128
May 29th, 2014 - 09:49 am - Link - Report abuse 0As you say,we have no equivalent to the Acadèmie Francais BUT there are accepted rules to the syntax of the language which are largely accepted throughout the academic world to standardise the ”
No I did not serve in the armed forces but put in 40 years as an Officer of Customs and Excise. I am well aware of circumlocution and I have had to avail myself of it's use when I could not say what I actually thought !
However one of my older colleagues who had served with distinction in the Fleet Air Arm lost the rag with one pompous individual who was nit picking his way through a report.
In ancient times-1960's - a report to the Commissioners of H.M. C &E had to be written in Dickensian English using a proper nibbed pen with special archival ink which we mixed ourselves.
It was in the format...
The Commissioners of HM Customs and Excise,
Honourable Sirs,
I beg to inform you........
and finish.....
I remain ,
your most humble and obedient servant.
My colleague, in frustration headed it
Honourable Bastards,
It was returned to him by his supervising Surveyor (an archaic rank long since gone) and told to reconsider what he had written and change it.
This he did and scored out the word honourable.
For: 129 Clyde15
May 29th, 2014 - 07:34 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Re:
“BUT there are accepted rules to the syntax of the language which are largely accepted throughout the academic world to standardise the...”
Tell that to some of those who frequent the pubs of certain districts of Glasgow on Saturday nights (Joke!) I’m not taking the piss. I can’t afford to so. I owe my fat ol’ arse to the Black Watch! Seriously, you’re right –the key to felicitous intercommunication is moderation in all things!
Re: The Scotti.
I didn’t say that they were the first known inhabitants of Scotland, rather, that by causing several disparate tribes to coalesce, they engendered ‘modern’ Scotland.
Cheers!
Jim.
PART 4 of 4.
However, with few notable exceptions such as your own, those who bother to peruse my Posts are obviously not interested in my feeble attempts at jocularity. Possibly that’s because some of my readers are of the cultural class of those who become fervent football fans and thus emulate the tribal behaviour of primitive man, in order to seek to mollify their misgivings of inferiority and to attempt to alleviate their subliminal sense of alienated isolation and resultant low self-esteem…
To those who call me a windbag, I say “Friends! You do me an honour!” For in my long experience, there’s only one thing more dangerous than a little knowledge and that’s a bunch of poorly informed, uncouth, bigmouth bumpkins vainly trying to solve a fearfully complex problem by the use of little more than schoolboy insults and banal sound bites –SOME OF WHICH CONTAIN SUCH IMPLICIT AND EXPLICIT THREATS OF THE USE OF FIREARMS OR OTHER MORTAL WEAPONS AGAINST CERTAIN PERSONS THAT I WONDER THEY’RE NOT BANNED, IN COMMON WITH SIMILAR MESSAGES, FROM TERRORISTS!. No allusion to exemplary comportment of the FEW truly distinguished denizens of these rogatively, morally pristine pages, OF COURSE!!!
Jim, in Madrid.
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