MercoPress. South Atlantic News Agency
Argentina announces an understanding with the Paris Club on defaulted debt
Following twelve hours of discussions the Argentine delegation headed by Economy Minister Axel Kicillof managed on Wednesday to agree the main points for Argentina to overcome the approximately 9.5bn dollars default with countries that make up the Paris Club, according to late reports from the French capital. Read full article
Comments
Disclaimer & comment ruleswheres our money
May 29th, 2014 - 06:38 am - Link - Report abuse 0The best possible result would be for all the corrupt politicians in Argentina to return their ill gotten gains and pay off all of Argentina's debts 100%.
May 29th, 2014 - 07:04 am - Link - Report abuse 0TWIMC
May 29th, 2014 - 08:15 am - Link - Report abuse 0As I was saying yesterday on another thread...:
This young lad Kicillof certainly cooked a nice deal with the Paris Club...
I liked the chap from the beginning!
Sooooo......:
“Paris Club”........... √ (check)
Waiting now for that recalcitrant Yankee court...
@3
May 29th, 2014 - 08:48 am - Link - Report abuse 0From the Paris Club Press Release: “Realization of initial payment under a formal commitment of Argentina to fully clear its arrears is a necessary and important step for the normalization of financial relationships between Paris Club creditors and Argentina.”
So Argentina is going to “fully clear” its arrears. A truly amazing deal indeed. How long did that take?
@3 Argentina will repay the arrears, debt and interest it owes, which amounted to $9.7 billion.
May 29th, 2014 - 09:08 am - Link - Report abuse 0The Paris club says it owes $10.1 billion whereas Argentina estimated the amount at about $9.1 billion, I didn't do a degree in maths, but I can work out that the deal is nearer the Paris club estimates than Argentina's.
The only nice deal, is that the Paris club members will get their money, at last, over a 5 year deal, and maybe the fact that the IMF won't be sniffing around as much. I would say that was dodging a bullet rather than a nicely cooked deal.
Argentina will have to pay its debts! Now lets wait and see if they actually pay.
It must be great to live in your world Think, I love people who always see the positive in things.
@3
May 29th, 2014 - 09:36 am - Link - Report abuse 0You know the saying Tink, “ It's not over until the fat lady sings” I like the fact that the UK has only 1.3% if the debt. The UK obviously knew beforehand that Argi would default. Well done the UK.
“taking into account Argentina’s objective conditions regarding the country’s payment capability”
May 29th, 2014 - 10:08 am - Link - Report abuse 0Which is what?
The Paris Club statement says :-
May 29th, 2014 - 10:34 am - Link - Report abuse 0“Realization of initial payment under a formal commitment of Argentina to fully clear its arrears is a necessary and important step for the normalization of financial relationships between Paris Club creditors and Argentina”.
“Fully clear it's arrears” - how is that a “victory” for Argentine diplomacy? - it basically says 'cough up' and we'll give you a 4% discount.
@8 Darragh
May 29th, 2014 - 11:26 am - Link - Report abuse 0I think “objective conditions regarding the country's payment capability” is diplo-speak for a combination of “crooked enough to hide behind a spiral staircase” and “couldn't organise a piss-up in a brewery”, which combine to form “this is what we want, but we're not going to hold our breath, or offer any more money”.
We'll settle for US$9 billion. In US$100 bills. Subject to checks for forgeries. Then we'll get on to discussing the “real” interest payments. How no-one's going to buy anything from argieland.
May 29th, 2014 - 11:42 am - Link - Report abuse 0In true fashion of this government they have managed to once again kick the can down the road and get away without opening the books.
May 29th, 2014 - 11:53 am - Link - Report abuse 0He must have taken a pallet full of Rutini wine with him for bribes.
I think we need him to deal directly with Paul Singer :)
This isn't near done it is just another worthless PR from the Ks. It seems like all they've done is agree to start payments next year. In the PC announcement there's no mention of anything else.
May 29th, 2014 - 12:13 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Telling.
Kicking the can down the road so that it is the next President and government that will have to address the problem. Personally, I don't see a problem, just pay what you owe, simples.
May 29th, 2014 - 12:56 pm - Link - Report abuse 0After ignoring the debt for 11 years, only 1/9 of the debt will be paid by the Ks and the rest will have to be dealt by the next government, depending if investments will arrieve if not will be paid in 7 years time....
May 29th, 2014 - 01:06 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Got to love the sence of timing of all the global financial institions. Funding dictators for half a century-
Bloody disgrace.
Argie Turnip at (11)
May 29th, 2014 - 01:13 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I would rather say that this government and young Mr. Kicillof have managed, in a very elegant manner, to close yet another painful economic chapter in Argentina's history by kicking the can right betweent the posts...
Not only did Mr. Kicillof keep the nefarious IMF away..., he got a nice 15% discount..., a first instalment due 12 months from now..., a five years interest free payback period and..., last but not least..., payments either in Argentinean bonds or fully financed by new credits otorgued by the Paris Club Members themseselves...
I concord with you when saying...:
“We need him to deal directly with Paul Singer”
Truth is.... He already is...
As I said, there's no agreement This is just a meaningless K PR. And like so many of their PR releases it is not confirmed on the other side.
May 29th, 2014 - 01:34 pm - Link - Report abuse 0All signatories must agree to the terms and there's no way the USA and Japan will let them slide on the IMF audit.
@15 Think
May 29th, 2014 - 01:40 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You must have read a different agreement.
1 ”1. Consolidate the amount of the debt is 9,700 billion at 30 April 2014. (down from 10,100 billion)
2 “scheme aims to cancel the entire debt in 5 years. It involves an initial payment for principal of $ 650 million in July 2014 and 500 million in May 2015, plus interest. The next payment will be made in May 2016.”
3 “The amount agreed for the interest amounts to 3% for capital balances during the first 5 years.”
http://www.cronista.com/economiapolitica/Economia-tambien-confirmo-el-acuerdo-con-el-Club-de-Paris-20140529-0072.html
THINK is what THINK doesn't do.
May 29th, 2014 - 02:02 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Argentina was the Paris Club's first client in 1956 when they borrowed $700M ... which in 1957 they couldn't pay back ... it was refinanced ... refinanced ... refinanced ... today they agree to pay $9.700M.
May 29th, 2014 - 02:11 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Victory!
:-)))))))))
May 29th, 2014 - 02:20 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Nice to see all those Anglo & Argie Turnips (+ a single hermanito Shileno) wriggling in their chairs and asking themselves...:
“How is this possible?”
:-))))))))))
Nestor announced to much fanfare We are building a bullet train to Rosario
May 29th, 2014 - 02:27 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Many years later
Crissy announces to much fanfare We are building a bullet train to Rosario
Until this is “understanding” is signed it is nothing more than wind from known liars.
@21 yankee
May 29th, 2014 - 02:37 pm - Link - Report abuse 0If it is hot wind, at least it is hot wind in the right direction.
@20 Think
As with the restructured bond holders I am supportive of Argentina paying their debts. If I were to ask:
“How is this possible?”
It would be in the context of:
How is this possible to have taken so long to start to take sensible orthodox measures?
20
May 29th, 2014 - 02:39 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“Ahora, los delegados deben requerir la aprobación a los gobiernos de los países acreedores. La conducción del foro estuvo a cargo del director general del Tesoro francés, Ramón Fernández, pero también participaron del convite representantes de todos los acreedores, ya que las soluciones deben alcanzarse por consenso. El Club de París está compuesto por 19 países, pero los pasivos impagos de la Argentina corresponden a 15 miembros más Israel, que es miembro adherente del grupo. ”
“Así, el acuerdo sellado finalmente con 15 de los 19 países que integran el Club de París, son con los que la Argentina está en default, se pagará en un plazo de 5 años si la Administración Crisstina considera que recibió suficientes inversiones o en 7 si entiende que los fondos fueron insuficientes.”
http://www.urgente24.com/227072-euforia-k-por-el-acuerdo-en-paris-que-pagara-el-proximo-gobierno
Its just a draft of an agreement
(19) Condorito
May 29th, 2014 - 02:48 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You say...:
“Argentina was the Paris Club's first client in 1956 when they borrowed $700M ... ”
I say...:
Argentina in 1956...?
Who was dictating Argentina in 1956...?
Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh....
The present democratically elected administration of Argentina has, during the past 11 years, reduced our foreign debt to levels not seen since the 50's... That is... the 1850's...
In our way to victory, indeed....
24
May 29th, 2014 - 03:00 pm - Link - Report abuse 0It makes perfect sense to ask for more money after Peron had bankrupted the country in the 1945-1955 term.
She hasn't paid a cent
Lavagna and Nielsen got the IMF to trim down 75% of the defaulted debt in 2005.
The largest cut in sovereing debt history.
The public debt has risen to alarming rates. You are lucky that you are a retired terrorist and asylum seeker in Scotland. God knows what the regular pensioners and retired get in 10 years time.
That debt decrease that the Ks go on about is measured as a % GDP . So what they have down is paint the GDP numbers all these years and make it appear that as if the debt was being reduced.
So wait for the Mega devaluation and an INDEC audit and you will see Colombia and Chile are bigger economies than Argentina is
Now “Kesellof” was admitting in Paris that Argentina had grown on average 5% all these years.
@24 Think
May 29th, 2014 - 03:12 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The people dictating Argentina in 1956 weren't responsible of the $700M debt that Peron ran up nationalising foreign owned industries.
In 11 years the present democratically elected government has failed to do what Uruguay achieved in 1 year post crissis - resolve all issues with her creditors. I applaud the intent to do this now, but ask how is it possible to have taken so long?
TWIMC
May 29th, 2014 - 03:19 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Stop wriggling little things...
Daddy here practises catch & release...
Swim away and find another story... This one has ended :-)))
I balance sheet terms Argentina is worse off than in 2001. Remember every hard asset that was held by Anses, BCRA, etc etc etc is long gone and replaced with worthless Arg peso bonds.
May 29th, 2014 - 03:21 pm - Link - Report abuse 0And nobody wants those
Next time you default it is going to be to your own people.
This next crash will make 2001 look like the good ol'days.
As it says, It needs to be ratified by 15 countries yet....
May 29th, 2014 - 03:53 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Im sure that when this falls down you will be off to some worthless none story of the Falkland islands.
@27 Think,
May 29th, 2014 - 05:30 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You're off topic, but that's a nice father and son fishing story.
Is it from your childhood or do you still go fishing with your Daddy?
If only the Paris Club would practice catch & release like your Daddy. Alas, Argentina is being gutted and filleted.
My question would be ... How much of a loan will they ask for after making a few payments...? Pay back 500 M ask for 2 B.. Isn't that the normal ploy they like to use.. PONZI !! I wonder if they can sucker them again... I should hope not..!!
May 29th, 2014 - 06:34 pm - Link - Report abuse 0A video-message from Argentina to all those angry little wriggling fishies out there...:
May 29th, 2014 - 07:06 pm - Link - Report abuse 0http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JmjOkeS9Azo
There is a lot of stuff that doesnt add up in Paris...
May 29th, 2014 - 07:45 pm - Link - Report abuse 0http://economiaparatodos.net/algo-huele-mal-en-paris/
Well politics aside, I think we can all agree the Kiciloff managed to pull one out of the bag this time.
May 29th, 2014 - 09:01 pm - Link - Report abuse 0He was stuck between a rock and a hard place and seems to have done a good job of keeping everyone happy for the time being.
Give credit where credit is due, he earned his pay this week.
Great news and those in the know knew this was coming. Of course the gringo muppets on this site are once again totally sidestepped. How can they get it so wrong? hahahaha....I have to laugh once again and the stupid comments above
May 29th, 2014 - 09:02 pm - Link - Report abuse 0This is great news for investing in Argentina and especially for those like myself who did it two years ago and we are making so much money right now.
We will celebrate with some champagne and gourmet pizza tonight in an exclusive Buenos Aires restaurant.............mmmmmmm
An understanding is not a signed agreement.
May 29th, 2014 - 09:36 pm - Link - Report abuse 0When you have nothing to celebrate you make a big deal out of nothing.
Propaganda
As I said earlier, with much fanfare it was announced that a bullet train will be built to Rosario.
They're not even good at keeping their lies straight
Like some on this board.
With so much smoke that was sold today by the cyber Ks and the ENTIRE argentine media today with the BRICS invitation (the Ks think that Argentina is going to become a BRIC member) and with the overestimated announcements of the Paris Club, I believe Argentina must have to be forced to abandon the Kyoto treaty
May 29th, 2014 - 09:58 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Now there has being lies, propaganda and K hysteria over nothing these last years. But I don’t remember anything as manufactured as what happened today…
Please can we have a list or some links to any FDI in Argentina in the past two years?
May 29th, 2014 - 10:07 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Anyone?
Thank you.
Perhaps Argentina should follow the UK economic growth model that was in todays FT.........hahaha.....a country of whores, pirates and drug dealers.....sliding further and further into irrelevance.....
May 30th, 2014 - 12:12 am - Link - Report abuse 0Prostitutes and drug dealers are set to give Britain a £10bn boost as the country revamps the way it measures its economy.
Britain said on Thursday it would include prostitution and illegal drugs in its official national accounts for the first time. The move is one of the changes planned for September that will add up to 5 per cent to the UK’s gross domestic product.
that on the same day this is announced the UK are now
@37 “Now there has being lies, propaganda and K hysteria over nothing these last years. But I don’t remember anything as manufactured as what happened today…”
May 30th, 2014 - 01:47 am - Link - Report abuse 0What, you don't remember when Nestor said China would invest 20 BILLION dollars in Argentina?
The best quote from this article must come from Capitanich:
May 30th, 2014 - 02:37 am - Link - Report abuse 0“First we need to agree on a definition of the amount of the debt”.
Only in Argentina could you hear this where you borrow money but choose how much you pay back
@39
May 30th, 2014 - 04:28 am - Link - Report abuse 0Prove it, where's the link, should be a interesting read.
Oh is that you Walter?
Forget my last, how's the Ferrari, the string of polo ponies and the Brazilian Super model?
@39
May 30th, 2014 - 06:50 am - Link - Report abuse 0“The inclusion of illegal drugs and prostitution is part of radical changes being made to European Union regulations on calculating GDP.”
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/economics/10861170/Drugs-and-prostitution-add-10bn-a-year-to-UK-economy.html
Drugs an hookers are everywhere. But there are few countries that have Federal Judges owning brothels and Argentina is one of them.
May 30th, 2014 - 09:52 am - Link - Report abuse 0The Ks have turned Argentina into a Narco State.
Just wait for her to get out of power and see the turf wars begin.
@44
May 30th, 2014 - 01:49 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Judges owning brothels? USA check.
Judges owning private prisons to send innocent teenagers there? USA check.
Police departments all over USA selling drugs seized in stings on the side? USA check
Police departments issuing fake traffic tickets to population to make cash? USA check
Mass shootings all over the place? USA check.
THOUGHT POLICE? USA check.
http://dailycaller.com/2014/05/26/is-america-starting-to-target-thought-crime/
USA: Narco and Matrix state.
I had lunch with a SA friend yesterday. He went to graduate school here in the USA, worked at an Intl org for a couple years here then went back home to work in the family business.
May 30th, 2014 - 02:27 pm - Link - Report abuse 0He just came back because he said he can't deal with the corruption. Everyone wants $ just to do their job!
His family is very wealthy and connected. He got into a long discussion with them to help them understand why he can no longer live in SA. They thought he was weak and needed to be stronger to live there and this is the way things are done.
He had to explain to him, they don't know anything different, they don't know how things are supposed to work. How much better it is to live and do business in the USA/EU/UK. How much easier and better life is here.
He moved back permanently to the USA.
It is too bad you'll never understand what it is like to live in a civilized country.
37 Cabeza Dura
May 30th, 2014 - 03:59 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Really? Even the opposition media like Clarin? Can you expand it a little bit for us? How is the mood in Argentina about this announcement?
Yep all of them save Urgente24 that said that the agreement had to be yet aproved by the member countries.
May 30th, 2014 - 05:11 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Markets did react positively, and all today.
This morning all the financial international media followed in.
The people I have spoken to automatically believe that the government has sold us out under the table.
The Ks are completely euphoric with this and the smokescreen of the BRIC invitation, they understand it as a formal request to join in the group you see.
Recently the Ks needed some good news, yesterday it fell in their laps form outside to do the perfect spinning. So from the outside world there ware sings that were given to the Ks to inflate the propaganda and smoke selling tales at levels not seeing for years.
They have enough political spin tools to make it count to the World cup now...
48. The markets are down today so it was a wash. My guess is the Ks manipulated the market up. It is easy to do with Anses funds since it is such a small market.
May 30th, 2014 - 05:24 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Then they sold off today.
Watch the bond market. They can't control it like they can Arg stocks.
Bonds didn't move at all.
My guess is its a whole lota nothin'
Yes I have just checked again, you are right!! They are down
May 30th, 2014 - 05:31 pm - Link - Report abuse 0So two questions remain before I leave..
Why did the Paris Club give him that little nothing message for them to fest upon??
How can the entire Argentine media and international media fall for it without going through the underwriting and the mechanisms of the Paris Club ??
They're all politicians, AxelK is a whiny B*tch who thinks he is smart but he's probably average but he's been surrounded by really stupid people his whole life.
May 30th, 2014 - 05:39 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I hear the meeting he had at IDB he was screaming and carrying on. He probably wouldn't let them go without the PC putting out something.
All it says is exactly what was agreed upon.
The amount of debt
Nothing more
The newspapers really haven't been saying much more than that and if they do it is more the story of Oh look Argentina is finally trying to be legitimate again, its nothing more than that.
Its all smoke and mirrors
In Summary
May 30th, 2014 - 10:26 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“Oh look Argentina is finally trying to be legitimate again”
(hat-tip to yankeeboy)
That's about it really. All the rest is just 'guff'.
End of story.
That's what they are saying in London.
(World Financial Capital, no less!)
This understanding will almost certainly kill the 7% Wall St banker bid to steal money from the 93% of good, honest bond holders!
Jun 02nd, 2014 - 05:04 am - Link - Report abuse 0?????
Jun 02nd, 2014 - 10:04 pm - Link - Report abuse 0What???
Please explain your comment.
#54
Jun 03rd, 2014 - 06:30 am - Link - Report abuse 0Singer is a Wall St banker.
@53
Jun 03rd, 2014 - 06:42 am - Link - Report abuse 0I take it that although the moniker is british, i doubt you are
In a modern society, people cannot be forced to give up their rights or their money.
This seems to be standard in Argentina though
The 7% of bond hold outs are perfectly fine to hold out. That does not make the 93% good honest bond holders.
In my own opinion, had someone come to me and said, i cant afford to pay you back, tell you what, take these bonds for a fraction of the value, and i may or may not pay you back later. Well I would be like the hold outs and say, no thanks, i will wait.
Argentina claims to have no money and yet makes deals on very old airplanes, agrees to finally pay for stolen companies, and yet wont pay its debts
Personally, I would insist on going to the Seychelles and looking at CFK's personal vault, to see what she and the one eyed wonder have stashed away
Back to the main story, it does seem weird to trust Argentina with loans, when there is so much they could be doing to sort out their own mess without the cash.
No country in the world trusts Argentina when it comes to money, or any international agreements.
Jun 03rd, 2014 - 06:11 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@56
Jun 04th, 2014 - 03:04 am - Link - Report abuse 0And I don't think that you are either a Vulcan or a bomber.
Whatever. You cannot get beyond the fact that Wall St bankers ate trying to steal money from Main St. Once again.
This agreement means that this is less likely to happen.
@58
Jun 04th, 2014 - 09:32 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Your logic is twisted and without factual supposed.
It is supposition and fallacy.
@59
Jun 05th, 2014 - 06:44 am - Link - Report abuse 0Not at all. Singer is after the money. That's the point of the court case.
but why is it wrong to be after the money. It is a debt after all.
Jun 05th, 2014 - 11:19 pm - Link - Report abuse 0no one should be forced to settle for less than the full amount, agreed they might have to wait for it
however, argentina wastes money on non critical stuff, so why not demand the full amount.
The UK should be insisting on our money back and that we no longer support loans using any of our donations
@61
Jun 06th, 2014 - 04:34 am - Link - Report abuse 0Because it will mean Main Street will be paying more money to Wall St. You may think that is OK but we, the 93%, do not.
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