MercoPress. South Atlantic News Agency
“Judge Griesa's message is reasonable and conciliatory” argues Lavagna
Argentina's former Economy Minister and architect of the 2005 rescheduling of defaulted debt, Roberto Lavagna called for “calm” and “seriousness” to rethink the country's legal strategy following the setback suffered on Monday when the US Supreme Court decided not to hear its appeal against holdout hedge funds. Read full article
Comments
Disclaimer & comment rulesSound advice from Lavagna, who has much street cred to bring to the Arg party, but sadly for Argentina, his views are the flip side of the coin of those prevail from within the CFK machinery.
Jun 18th, 2014 - 10:35 am - Link - Report abuse 0Negotiate what Lavagna?
Jun 18th, 2014 - 12:44 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Declare a default on the 30th. Then explain why. Let the 92% understand that they are now getting nothing back thanks to an 8% that is far far wealthier than they are.
I'm sure the 92% will understand the billionaire 8% ...
That will be the 92% of the bondholders you thieving bastards cheated out of 75% of their investment will it.
Jun 18th, 2014 - 01:09 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Anyway WTF do you care, you will soon be living in the poverty stricken isolationist utopia you keep spouting so much shite about!!
Enjoy.
@toby
Jun 18th, 2014 - 01:19 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Default or not the court orders still stand. Argentina is going to have to settle with the “vultures” sooner or later. If you default now, the “vultures” could even buy up more distressed debt making it even more expensive to settle in future.
Being locked out is not an option. Your economically illiterate leaders have realized that even if you haven't.
Do you really think they are not going to pay the holdouts now?
@2 The con is over. Get it? You WILL pay or you WILL suffer. It's up to you to pay EVERYBODY. No more “If we pay NML, we can't pay anyone else”. Yes you can! Quit trying to keep up with somewhere like the UK. You're 200 years behind!
Jun 18th, 2014 - 03:10 pm - Link - Report abuse 0If it were not for nice, respectful and reasonable people such as “Condorito” or “Hansniesund” I would really stop reading in this site.
Jun 18th, 2014 - 04:18 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Reading stupid comments of some felow countrymen ashame me (How old are you “The_TroLLing_Stone”? 13, 14, 15 years old...may be a little bit younger..I don't understand why your dad doesn't force you to go to school).
Reading stupid comments of, an obviously alcoholic, Conqueror that have not fun at all is also quite bothering.
Hey “Big Mouth” Conqueror..have you already started collecting pounds to connect the FI directly to London? Have you already sent the promissed letter to the PM to cancel these flights? No yet...don't worry I knew since the first time I read your post that you are just a charlatan. Don't you have job to collect some money instead of getting subsidies from the UK taxpayers?
@4
Jun 18th, 2014 - 08:16 pm - Link - Report abuse 0They can buy all the distressed debt they want, the one they would be buying is the already shaved-off bonds, to which they have no protection from their US courts they bought off.
7. You are just too stupid to understand how the world works. It is seems to be a very common trait in Argentina.
Jun 18th, 2014 - 08:37 pm - Link - Report abuse 0As I said this AM, CFK and minions should learn to keep their big mouths shut.
All they end up doing is making themselves look idiotic.
@8
Jun 18th, 2014 - 09:43 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Not as common as in the USA?
How's Afghanistan going?
How about Cuba?
How about Vietnam?
How about Iraq?
Too stupid to understand how the world works. Very true, isn't it.
“The former minister during the administration of president Nestor Kirchner also recommended the Argentine government to “negotiate” with New York Judge Thomas Griesa in order to reach an agreement with holdout investors.”
Jun 18th, 2014 - 10:24 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You can see from this little gem that HE still doesn't get it. There will be NO negotiating with Griesa: it will be in his chambers for the five minute meeting between the gangsters of The Dark Country and NML to explain to the gangsters THEY will negotiate with SINGER, OR ELSE.
He may go on to state the blindingly obvious, but it will need stating to the deaf, dumb and blind twats of The Dark Country, that ANY offer they make in the “negotiations” will have to fulfil the terms he has previously stated or no deal and NML will be given the full force of the judgement to recover assets from The Dark country that will realise ALL the outstanding monies owed to Singer.
This is always assuming the stay is set, once that is off start wearing your hard hats and Huggies.
We, the holdout creditors, who have been suffering for more than a decade, are in each case the looser and Argentina is the winner, even if Argentina would repay all of OUR money. No one of the argentine government can imagine the suffering of the tens of thousend holdout creditors and their Family.
Jun 18th, 2014 - 10:38 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Now after the US Supreme Court rejected Argentina's appeal, the government of Cristina Kirchner and the Holdouts are forced to sit down and negotiate immediately an acceptable solution, probably under the review of Judge Griesa, to end this HORROR-Default with endless suffering for tens of thousand holdout creditors and their families worldwide.
Most of the Holdouts are “before default buyer”, who have
bought their bonds at an average of 100% or even higher. That is why we cannot accept similar offers as they were in 2005 and 2010.
The “RUFO” clause (Rights Upon Future Offers) expires as
of December 2014. That means, that from 01/01/2015 Argentina can make a better offer to the Holdouts, than it made in 2005 and 2010.
If Argentina and the holdouts made already NOW A BINDING AGREEMENT with respect to the “time after” (end of the “Rights Upon Future Offers (RUFO) clause in December 2014), seizure risks and a technical Default would be immediately averted. Argentina could immediately return to the capital market and thus Argentina could refinance the payments to the holdouts, without using reserves.
Following conditions might be acceptable for the Holdouts and maybe also for
Argentina:
Argentina makes a buyback offer of about 130-140% for the
holdouts ( for owing capital+ accrued interest between 2002-2015).
(Argentina owes to today about 230%, a cash buyback of 130-140% would so mean for Argentina already a debt relief of about 100%)
Idiot child Tobias tells us that
Jun 18th, 2014 - 10:44 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“Let the 92% understand that they are now getting nothing back thanks to an 8% that is far far wealthier than they are.
I'm sure the 92% will understand the billionaire 8% ...”
Share thy marvellous knowledge, Tobias.
Of the 8% holdout debt, exactly - EXACTLY - how much debt is owned by whom?
I think it's fairly obvious that it is NOT “granny” in Germany or Italy that can “hold-out” 14 years without getting anything at all and pay billions in lawyer fees and launch fishing campaigns to seize assets in Ghana or elsewhere.
Jun 18th, 2014 - 10:48 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Its easy to see who that 8% is. You maybe too dumb to connect the dots, though?
Why would small investors have to fight when they can ride the coat tails of the big investors?
Jun 19th, 2014 - 12:15 am - Link - Report abuse 0If it were me I would wait until the deal is announced with NML and ask for immediate payment under the same terms.
and they'll get it.
@14
Jun 19th, 2014 - 12:44 am - Link - Report abuse 0Are you an imbecile?
Where will the money come from?
You stil don't get what “bankruptcy” means huh? It means you will not be able to honor the entirety of your obligations, and that your assets even if confiscated are not enough to cover obligations.
hahaha.
A few days ago weren't you saying there was plenty of money if your foolish leaders stopped spending it on wasteful things, Free Soccer etc?
Jun 19th, 2014 - 01:51 am - Link - Report abuse 0Argentine has mismanaged its assets and cash flow for decades it is time to pay the piper.
I guess what you don't' understand is that the creditors come first in the real word, if you can't buy oil or gas for your people too bad. Figure it out. Ya all gotta pay up now.
You will have to do without for a very very very long time.
Like I've told you buy Sugar this is going to get much worse before it gets any better.
@16
Jun 19th, 2014 - 02:07 am - Link - Report abuse 0Sure, there “COULD” be money *IF* they ended billions in subsidies to Aerolineas, to transportation, to football... and if they allowed more exports, and if they did another devaluation to limit imports.
But Argentina is never going to do those things to pay the hold-outs!
Well, creditors might come first in the “real world”, but at the end of the day, unlike with individuals where creditors can be the bastards you just described (just like you I am sure), a nation is not restricted by that. IT CAN CHOOSE oil, gas.
You really have no credibility. Your predictions of apocalypse have been running for almost 3 years now that I have been here, and from what I have heard at least for 2 years before that under another nick.
And look what your own financial media is saying:
http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/06/17/us-argentina-debt-economy-analysis-idUSKBN0ES32K20140617
I just woke you up.
Oh Sweetie, my predictions have been spot on. I told you yesterday its not the default that is going to cause pain its the lack of funds at BCRA.
Jun 19th, 2014 - 02:14 am - Link - Report abuse 0You have a balance of payment shortfall coming and no way to fix it.
I doubt you'll even be able to ship out oil for refining now since YPF is a Gov't company.
That old hag and the one eyed wonder has got you in quite a bind.
Wait and see.
Idiot child Tobias is asked:
Jun 19th, 2014 - 04:28 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“Of the 8% holdout debt, exactly - EXACTLY - how much debt is owned by whom?”
Idiot child Tobias answers:
“I think it's fairly obvious that it is NOT “granny” in Germany or Italy that can “hold-out” 14 years ... Its easy to see who that 8% is. You maybe too dumb to connect the dots, though?”
This may be “obvious” to an idiot child like Tobias, but in the real world many Italian pensioners are holdouts.
They hope for the hedge funds to do the fighting for them because when Argentina has stolen 700,000 of your 900,000 US$ you cannot afford to fight a government in court.
Idiot child Tobias, tell us:
“Of the 8% holdout debt, exactly - EXACTLY - how much debt is owned by whom?”
- or don't you understand the meaning of the word exactly?
@19
Jun 19th, 2014 - 04:54 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I already EXACTLY know that the Catholic and Episcopalian churches have come out with statements AGAINST the hold-outs. The ENTIRETY of the argentine opposition has also come out today against the hold-outs. And now Uruguay is the first country to state the hold-outs are not acceptable. Expect many others to follow in the next few days.
The hold-outs made a BET in speculative JUNK BONDS. THat's why they are called speculative and JUNK. That's why they get the higher interest rate.
And that's why sometimes they lose.
Why then charge higher rates for debt if the debt from Germany is just as safe as that from Argentina?
But I know. You are a capitalist pig: when things make a profit, the profit is only for the stock holders. When things lose money, lets have the poor people of the USA and Europe bail us out, lets socialize the losses.
When a country borrows, lets charge them a much higher rate, in case they can't pay someday. If they can't pay, lets force the people to pay and we still get our money.
None of you believe in capitalism, you just believe in having the middle class of the world give all their money to billionaires. You are particularly vile and twisted people.
Idiot child Tobias, you are squirming.
Jun 19th, 2014 - 05:25 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Tell us:
“Of the 8% holdout debt, exactly - EXACTLY - how much debt is owned by whom?”
It doesn't matter. They ain't getting paid.
Jun 19th, 2014 - 06:08 pm - Link - Report abuse 0They aren't getting paid?
Jun 19th, 2014 - 07:20 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The (Argentine) government admitted that Argentine assets abroad may be seized.
“El Gobierno admitió que los bienes argentinos en el exterior pueden ser embargados” http://www.infobae.com/2014/06/19/1574203-el-gobierno-admitio-que-los-bienes-argentinos-el-exterior-pueden-ser-embargados
e.g. the Boeing 737-700 from Aerolíneas Argentinas which today opened a direct route between Mendoza and Sao Paolo?
http://www.infobae.com/2014/06/19/1574203-el-gobierno-admitio-que-los-bienes-argentinos-el-exterior-pueden-ser-embargados
Kiss it good-bye. Aerolíneas Argentinas will have to become purely domestic.
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