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Strong warning to Argentina from Griesa regarding payment of bondholders

Saturday, June 21st 2014 - 09:45 UTC
Full article 44 comments

US Federal Judge Thomas Griesa, ratified on Friday through an official letter that Argentina’s proposal to carry out a debt exchange and pay its bondholders in Buenos Aires represents a “violation of the rulings and procedures.” Read full article


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  • reality check


    Are the actually banks out their willing to support it?

    Jun 21st, 2014 - 10:03 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ilsen

    They have been warned not to mess with the Judge.

    When will they listen?

    It's time to pay up. Argentina has no choice.

    Jun 21st, 2014 - 10:03 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ChrisR

    @ 1 reality check

    Don't overlook that The Dark Country has a branch of it's own there!

    I cannot imagine that an independent bank (the main payer of the bonds is independent) would want to cross the judge, it would finish them throughout the US.

    ANY bank in any country that has a branch in the US is covered by these judgements.

    I expect TMBOA will “come on stage” and scream that she will not allow Argentina to be told what to do by an American Judge. That would really endear her to Griesa.

    Jun 21st, 2014 - 11:05 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • yankeeboy

    I am sure everyone remembers me telling the Rgidiots on the board, just because YOU don't think you owe something is irrelevant.

    The terms are clear, they're already in the judgement. NML is the only one that can choose to accept less. They may or may not.

    As default gets closer the chances of them accepting less is smaller also.
    Not the other way around as CFK believes.

    NML is banking on a default and a restructuring through IMF at agreed upon terms. I am sure they couldn't care less what the Wannabe Elvis proposes.
    If I were NML I would include repayment all of my attorney fees in the negotiations.
    I think Arg will show up, bang on the table a bit, scream and cry just like the spoiled children they are.

    Jun 21st, 2014 - 11:37 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Conqueror

    Timely warning for Kissedoff. Might he have the “pleasure” of meeting Judge Griesa to explain his contempt of court? Don't suppose it's possible, but I can dream!

    Jun 21st, 2014 - 12:34 pm - Link - Report abuse 0

    Que: Lifts mask to reveal the the human behind the Vulture costume

    Only for it to say

    “And I Would Have Gotten Away with It Too, If It Hadn't Been for You Meddling Kids and Your Dog,”

    Jun 21st, 2014 - 12:50 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • owl61

    A bank(s) outside the jurisdiction of the US will be substituted in as paying agent. They will not be in violation of any US injunction.
    I can see Arg suing the attnys it hired to write the bond contracts for failing to include a collective action clause. That will start another round of litigation. Hope the law firm has some significant E&O coverage.

    Jun 21st, 2014 - 12:57 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • yankeeboy

    7. I can't think of one bank in Argentina that doesn't do some business with the USA either through Arg or another related bank.
    Not one.
    You have no idea how the world works, if Argentina was too dumb to understand what they sign it is their own fault. Too bad so sad.

    Jun 21st, 2014 - 01:54 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Holdout.from.Germany

    The whole world would be very pleased, if this since 2002 ongoing NIGHTMARE-DEFAULT finally had been finished!

    Under the review of Judge Griesa, Argentina and the Holdouts may come together, to end this HORROR-Default, with endless suffering for tens of thousand holdout creditors and their families worldwide.

    Most of the Holdouts are “before default buyer”, who have bought their bonds at an average of 100% or even higher. That is why we cannot accept similar offers as they were in 2005 and 2010.


    Argentina owes to today about 230% to the Holdouts (since 2002 Argentina has not repaid anything to the holdouts)

    Possibilities e.g.:
    Argentina (or investment banks, funds) make a buyback offer in cash of about 130-140% to the holdouts (for owing capital+ accrued interest between 2002-2015).
    (Argentina owes to today about 230%, a cash buyback of 130-140% would so mean for Argentina already a debt relief of about 100%)

    - at the latest, on 02/01/2015 (end of RUFO clause) Argentina would repay in CASH 100% of the nominal value of the defaulted bonds, which became due before 2015.

    - For the accrued interest between 2002-2015, Argentina would emit new bonds with about 50% discount, and with a maturity of 5-7 years.

    In practice the negotiations could look like this:

    Argentina should enter into good-faith negotiations with the holdout creditors – all of them –via the good offices of Mr Singer. A firm deadline should be set to reach an agreement, say January 2, 2015, two days after the expiration date of the Rights Upon Future Offers clause, that Argentina from offering higher prices to some holdouts.
    A similar pari passu promise should be made by NML Capital to the other holdouts, guaranteeing that, after a final deal is struck, NML Capital’s recovery rate of principal and accrued interest (net of legal and other expenses related to the litigation) would be the same for all holdouts.

    Jun 21st, 2014 - 02:10 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Joe Bloggs

    I think Elvis and TMBOA should tell Griesa and Singer to get fncked and refuse to pay anyone anything. That will show the world that Argentina is afraid of nobody. I'm with TTT on this one; it would teach the rest of the world who is the smartest of them all.

    Jun 21st, 2014 - 03:19 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Great Britain

    @10 - but that's the whole point of this judgement - they can say what they want but they are powerless to do anything about it.

    Jun 21st, 2014 - 03:48 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Captain Poppy

    Everytime asslips opens her mouth she tightens the noose around the neck of the Argentine people. She was check mated and she is still trying to play. Someone tell them you cannot negotiate laws......and is over.
    Nothing in the news about is all soccer to divert attention.......

    Jun 21st, 2014 - 04:31 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ElaineB

    @10 LOL!

    Jun 21st, 2014 - 04:37 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Joe Bloggs

    11 GB

    YEAH! Good isn't it. LOL.

    13. LOL

    Jun 21st, 2014 - 04:42 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • reality check

    Read the last paragraph of the WSJ add, it is a doozy (appropriate American word that) where they say Argentina expects a fair judicial decision.

    Is it me? Am I missing something? Is it a translation thing? Are they on drugs? Are they living in an alternate dimension? Is this the twilight zone?

    What I am trying to say is, didn't they just get a fair judicial decision?

    Jun 21st, 2014 - 05:01 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Klingon

    @ 9
    option #3
    Argentina tells the Judge to get F**ked and continues to pay all those who accepted the offer and the rest of the holdouts can get screwed.

    You were not too smart were you?? Buying bonds from a country 100 Billion in debt in way over it's head.

    If we default expect another 10 years to get back to this stage again.

    Jun 21st, 2014 - 06:16 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Anbar

    “”“Argentina has no choice.”“”

    yes they do - stick two fingers up at the establishment and do their own deal... or none at all and roll with the punches.

    The majority of people arrogant enough to believe Argentina has no choice at all are largely those who populate the Untrustworthy States of America.

    morsus mihi

    Jun 21st, 2014 - 08:06 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Joe Bloggs

    17 Anbar

    I'm with you. Tell those Western bastards to go jump. Call your local MP and insist that Argentina does not bow down to these people. I mean who do they think they are!

    Jun 21st, 2014 - 08:27 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • yankeeboy

    16/ 17 your posts sound childish and delusional. You lost. Grow up and live with the consequences. Going against the USA will only make your lives worse than they already are going to be.
    Silly arrogance got you into this mess
    When will you ever learn?

    I am with Joe though, please default and refuse to honor the court order. That's the best solution to maintain your dignity and I would love to watch that roll out over the next few years.

    Jun 21st, 2014 - 08:35 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Joe Bloggs


    Yeah, go on Argentina. Show those bastards up in America that you are not going to be dictated to. It's your money, do what you want with it.

    Jun 21st, 2014 - 08:36 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ilsen

    You are smarter than they think!

    Jun 21st, 2014 - 09:13 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Captain Poppy

    When you tell those western bastards to go jump does that include those western oil company bastards as well? Is that the same bastards she tries to sell goods and import beef and lemons too as well? Reality will eventually set in and you will realize Argentina does not dictate terms for anything.
    There is a right way to manage a country and a wrong way. Kirchner's arrogance flushed it's own people down the toilet. All of you RG's need to understand that if you borrow money you pay it back. What is wrong with you all to think that if you borrow 100 dollars you only have to pay back 23 dollars. It's a long winter that just started and no money for oil. I hardly consier it cold being from the northeast and everyone on Buenos Aires is dressed like it is the Artic........yes. tell those western bastsrds where to jump.

    Jun 21st, 2014 - 09:42 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ilsen

    Perhaps the EU will ban Argentine imports.


    How you like sucking on those lemons?

    Jun 21st, 2014 - 10:51 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Joe Bloggs

    22 Captain Poppy
    Now you're getting the idea. Why the fnck should they have to pay it back? It's not their fault they lost it all. They're Argentina! They don't follow Western rules. Okay? You got it?

    I want to see Elvis give them everything he's got on Monday. Ring up Griesa and tell him to... no... wait... tell fncking Griesa to ring you!. This is Argentina man. Tell Griesa to ring you, and when he does, simply tell him you ain't paying anyone nothin! Then get that SoB Singer on the phone and tell him as well.

    Then whisper Las Malvinas son Argentinas into TMBOA's ear and sit back and enjoy.

    Jun 21st, 2014 - 11:19 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ilsen

    Joe, you are fast becoming a legend here.

    Love your sense of humour!

    Jun 22nd, 2014 - 12:37 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Captain Poppy

    The only thing that Kirchner will be dictating is......and that is a maybe is position a ky jelly.
    Why pay back what you RG's borrow? Are all of you deadbeat thieves?
    BTW. Elvis will break out his kneepads doing the oral salsa on everyone he talks to over the next two week countdown to default.

    Jun 22nd, 2014 - 02:38 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ilsen

    Tick tock. Those 30 days grace are fading fast.

    Can you see what is coming over the hill?

    Yup, a massive scary default!

    Jun 22nd, 2014 - 08:28 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Welsh Wizard

    If you don't pay up you'll find it almost impossible to function.
    1. Most payments in US$ will have a routing function through a bank in NY (or will use those systems). If you don't pay, NY will be closed to you.
    2. London will also be closed. No US bank will accept RG money as they will be in contempt of the NY ruling. No other bank will accept RG money in London as they will be in contempt of the NY ruling. If they did they could have their NY licence revoked.
    3. Move the place of payment? Fine, you’ll find that most countries have a mutually reciprocal convention to recognise the jurisdiction of other courts and especially the rulings of courts in other countries. Only caveat is where such ruling runs counter to public policy in that country. I doubt that any country will say that this does because there is no point in another government putting their neck on the line to help Argentina.
    4. What about asking a non-established financial centre to do this. Possible, but if they do they’ll suddenly find that they have the US government on their back refusing then loans, reciprocal deals in trade talks etc.
    5. Move place of payment to BA? You’ll still have the issues above (as if a BA bank acts as agent then they will have their licence revoked in the US and their access to US$).
    6. Us lawyers don’t get much of a chance to be creative and love it when we can be. Singer will have told his lawyers to think of very possible asset which could be argued to be a government asset and will ask the US courts to seize all of them to cause maximum disruption. All AA aircraft outside RG air space. All soy. Assets of the BCRA/La Nacion/YPF. You’ll just have a bunch of very bright people being paid a huge amount to think of every possible thing they can to do to cause maximum disruption to every RG asset outside Argentina…and they’ll be supported by the full power of the US courts whilst doing this.

    Jun 22nd, 2014 - 10:18 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ElaineB

    I thought Kicillof had a degree in economics and was a professor at a BsAs University. How could he not understand something so very basic about the monetary system? He is astonishingly naive.

    Jun 22nd, 2014 - 11:05 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Welsh Wizard

    This is what I find strange. This is pretty simple stuff from an economic and legal view point and they must have been told this 1000 times by their lawyers

    Jun 22nd, 2014 - 11:13 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Joe Bloggs

    I think Elvis is spot on and I advise him not to pay.

    Jun 22nd, 2014 - 11:21 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Porto Margaret

    Some music from Europe for Argentina.

    Everyone knows the words......

    Come along sing aloud.... 'It's the final count down' !!

    Jun 22nd, 2014 - 11:26 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ilsen

    Wise words from the Welsh Wizard @28,

    .....and Joe's tongue seems to be so firmly 'implanted' in his cheek that I'm surprised Christina hasn't gone crying to the UN about it.....


    Jun 22nd, 2014 - 12:24 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Anbar

    “”“16/ 17 your posts sound childish and delusional. You lost. Grow up and live with the consequences.”“”

    Explain how I lost?

    Im a British citizen living in Britain.

    (you really made a tit of yourself there)

    Jun 22nd, 2014 - 12:51 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • CabezaDura2

    The Ks are preparing a proposal of only 300-400 million US$ paid up front and get a foreign bank to purchase the rest of the Holdouts debt... Which they will try to kick down the road as far as possible like the Repsol bonds. I just knew it!
    Their intentions are not pay over the same % of debt that was paid to the bondholders that entered the restructurations in 2005 & 2010 until January, thus avoiding RUFO clause....They will also try to get the Stay re instated

    I guess It depends on the holdouts and Griesa now

    Jun 22nd, 2014 - 01:15 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • yankeeboy

    34. Sorry about that.

    35. That won't work. They'll never reinstate the Stay, there's no benefit to NML and I don't think it would even be legal. All of these convoluted shenanigans they are going to try to avoid paying EVERYONE Equally won't work. If by some miracle that NML's brains have somehow spilled out over the weekend and they accept a reduction in payments it will still trigger the RUFO clause. You can't have both a ratified contract and a later kick in clause. They'll just end up in court again.
    They're trying to do something scummy and underhanded that they could get away with in Argentina but won't fly in a civilized country.
    They still think we are as dumb as they are.
    Someday they'll realize they should just do the right thing and in the end it will be best for them and the whole country.

    Jun 22nd, 2014 - 01:50 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Welsh Wizard

    @36 I'm not sure where this idea of negotiating for a let payment had come from. NML would only do this if they didn't want to have to spend the money going to court. They've already won. The Ks think that the judgement was a judgement in favour of negotiation. I think Singer wants them to default or change the place of payment so they he can have some fun seizing assets. He doesn't need the money and this is probably a fun diversion for him. Yankeeboy, if you were Singer I know that you would be waiting for them to default so that you could let loose the dogs of war and seize every asset available to add maximum embarrassment. Especially after someone has publically been calling you a cnut for the last 6 months. It's what of do

    Jun 22nd, 2014 - 02:50 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Troy Tempest


    One would hope they would be embarrassed, that's what needs to happen - and make the people angry at them!

    I don't know if they are capable of shame or embarrassment, though.

    Jun 22nd, 2014 - 04:32 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • yankeeboy

    You have to have honor to feel shame. They have no honor, the whole time I lived there I felt the whole society was bereft of honor they don't even understand the concept of doing what is right just for the sake of it.

    Welsh, If I were Singer I would negotiate immediate payment with attorney fees and a small discount so that I look like I am giving up something.
    They still don't realize the lost and the terms are set. My guess all of this talk on the Rg side are lies. I think in the end they'll default because they just don't have the cash. Arg has plenty of assets around, now NML has the full weight of a SCOTUS ruling to go after anything he wants. He can seize it then they can work it out in the courts whether its a gov't asset or not.
    CFK screwed up using BCRA funds to pay debt. They're now tainted and I bet they freeze them in Aug if there's no agreement in place.

    Good luck trying to buy o/g or getting anyone to play with YPF. It will be about tightening the noose and embarrassing at every step until they pay. I'd also try to find CFK and minions stolen loot.
    The Ks should have kept their big mouths shut, if I were Singer I'd kinda hope they default. Revenge is delicious.

    Jun 22nd, 2014 - 04:51 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • bushpilot

    Did anyone read this on the BBC?

    “Argentina publishes US newspaper advert against 'vulture funds”

    Jun 22nd, 2014 - 09:40 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Joe Bloggs

    Yep, someone had a link to it on here over the weekend.

    Jun 22nd, 2014 - 10:02 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • La Patria

    I wonder that when they published their ad, they also looked at the numerous ads offering debt consolidation loans.

    Jun 23rd, 2014 - 03:09 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Anbar

    Jun 23rd, 2014 - 10:34 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Troy Tempest

    Good one, Anbar !!

    Jun 24th, 2014 - 01:10 am - Link - Report abuse 0

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