MercoPress. South Atlantic News Agency
Judge Griesa calls Argentina and hedge funds for a hearing on Friday
A US judge has scheduled a hearing for Friday after hedge funds suing to collect on defaulted debt issued by Argentina complained about the country's plans to make a payment to creditors who participated in its past restructurings. Read full article
Comments
Disclaimer & comment rulesThe response is straightforward. The court should seize the funds. It's a clear case of contempt of court. No reason why argieland couldn't have “deposited” 2.33 billion dollars. It has the money.
Jun 27th, 2014 - 09:48 am - Link - Report abuse 0@ 1
Jun 27th, 2014 - 11:55 am - Link - Report abuse 0Precisely.
It now seems that a large part of the world’s press have fallen for the argie version of “the truth” about the effect that Griesa’s decision “will” have of other sovereign debt deals.
This is to be expected from the likes of the tabloids and of course the UN and people with degrees in art history (or whatever it is) but it all helps pervade the lie that The Dark Country is being “picked on”.
This latest stunt was clearly designed to force the issue regarding contempt thus allowing TDC to claim it has been “forced” again thus allowing it to go sobbing to the press and claim “I told you so”.
The default (there will be one) will then not be their fault because they have been the “victim” again.
Whether they play the victim or not is irrelevant to the USA courts. Public opinion has little sway.
Jun 27th, 2014 - 12:04 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Also the verdict is done, its over, complete and still they don't get it.
The dirty Ks are no match for Griesa, he's onto their wily ways and they will lose...again.
I hope the people rise up but I don't think they understand how they've been duped yet again.
Maybe they will when they're boiling shoes for soup.
This crisis is not of Argentina. It is a crisis of the United States.
Jun 27th, 2014 - 12:23 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Legal uncertainty, economic recession, lack of competitiveness, social inequality in exponential growth, obsolescence of infrastructure (including logistics), epidemic poverty, costly, deficit and failed State. Decay of the United States!
The decision of this judge only brings more uncertainty and doubt to countries that concentrate monetary reserves (BRIC, Japan and Germany) if the United States really be trusted.
Somebody has washed their hands in all the papers this morning.... Its sounds as only one thing is coming
Jun 27th, 2014 - 12:26 pm - Link - Report abuse 0http://i.imgur.com/zp5nQCf.gif
5. It is funny how they are trying to lay blame their screw ups on the White House. How they get there logically is flabbergasting.
Jun 27th, 2014 - 12:56 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I guess it helps to be in some sort of alternate universe.
@4 How's the World Cup going? Olympics next. Lots more money to spend yet.
Jun 27th, 2014 - 01:56 pm - Link - Report abuse 0It's called “justice”, brassiere. Taking a bent, corrupt, criminal, larcenous, mendacious state and showing it can't get away with it. Perhaps nearby states could learn?
@6
Jun 27th, 2014 - 04:26 pm - Link - Report abuse 0http://news.yahoo.com/oklahoma-looks-answers-earthquakes-213751577.html
Everything I said is coming to fruition. Just to extract a few million barrels of oil, you are DESTROYING your entire agricultural heartland by contaminating the ground water which is the REAL source of the crops (not really rain), and now you are creating geological instability because, GASP (who would have thunk it), you are altering the composition of rock sediment that took millions of years to form in a matter of weeks. So of course you will see tons of earhquakes and damage.
Americans are by far the most shortsighted people on Earth. They didn't even have a post-war plan for IRAQ, because they thought everyone would greet them with open arms and rose like in Paris (that's what the US government said!). Look at it now.
Now imagine the environmental and geologic version of Iraq 2014 in the middle USA.
They are doomed.
@8
Jun 27th, 2014 - 04:41 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The Americans may be shortsighted in some areas but they have a working economy and a stable, functioning, independent court system.
I noticed on another page here that your country no longer posts catch records by your fishing industry. Cluelessness or overfishing?
Toby, Don't worry about the USA we're completely fine. Only the nutters still believe fracking damages the ground water and who knows why they have earthquakes they're tiny anyway most people don't even feel them.
Jun 27th, 2014 - 05:27 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Plus with all the newly minted millionaires from the fracking o/g roayalties they can move somewhere else if it is really bothering them.
I think its funny you post yahoo news all the time. You might as well base all your knowledge on of the USA on Huff Post or Daily Beast.
I see Griesa is a man with a high tolorance of childish antics. He is going to make you pay or default. I guess CFK should have come up with a Plan B instead of whining and screeching about it.
I hear they want to take someone to the Hague over this? I wonder who? Since its a private contract law matter doesn't really fit there now does it?
Also we don't recognize foreign courts.
As they said in WaPo Too bad so sad for Argentina
I can't wait until they seize the 1st LNG shipment. I hope it happens in August when its very cold in BA.
Is Judge Griesa doing this out pity and patience or does he want to leave the Ks with no excuses for defaulting and not settling an agreement with the holdouts??
Jun 27th, 2014 - 05:37 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@11 a bit of both probably. But unless we can get around the RUFO clause there will be a default. This isn't about 1.3 billion or even 15 billion, but around 100 billion we have to pay without the haircut.
Jun 27th, 2014 - 06:06 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Such a novel concept......paying back what was borrowed.
Jun 27th, 2014 - 06:21 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@13 the problem is the debt is humongous and it can't be paid in less than a century. Even paying only 30% of it caused a huge burden to the economy, it was one of the causes of our high inflation as the government borrowed money from the state to pay debt.
Jun 27th, 2014 - 06:33 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I understand that. My country has a mountain of debt as well in which I am not thrilled about. But we still are paying it back in full. Either become N.Korea or remove the peronists but charge the current government because it is seriously failing the people. Even the sidewalks in BsAs city are in serious decay......the tiles are missing everywhere with dirt holes.
Jun 27th, 2014 - 07:06 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Reference Brasileiro June 12th :- I assume he made a mistake & intended to say Brasil when he wrote crisis in the United States.
Jun 27th, 2014 - 07:08 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@14
Jun 27th, 2014 - 07:16 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Nobody forced Argentina to borrow the money in the first place and here we are again wanting to borrow money to pay off the debt. Once bitten twice shy, The Argentines need to get off their arses and work for a living and pay their taxes. Get a grip of your economy.
12 Magnus
Jun 27th, 2014 - 07:17 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“This isn't about 1.3 billion or even 15 billion, but around 100 billion we have to pay without the haircut.”
Magnus,
Is Argentina required to pay $100b ?
Surely, they only have to pay the “93%” that took the write-down, 23% of the original amount?
How much is that ?
And the “Holdouts”, 7%, aren't they the only ones asking for 100% of the face value of the bonds?
Isn't that the point?
Argentina will pay the 93% because they resigned themselves to accepting far less, right?
I can see being “overwhelmed ” by the amount, but isn't it much less than $100b ??
He's assuming there will be a class action suit to recover whatever amount the holdouts agree to take from the 93% of the people who “agreed” to take the original reduction.
Jun 27th, 2014 - 07:33 pm - Link - Report abuse 0A good portion of the 93% are intergovernmental bondholders like Anses and Arg Banks so that U$100B is a bit misleading.
@16
Jun 27th, 2014 - 07:49 pm - Link - Report abuse 0No. I referred to the United States even.
http://g1.globo.com/globo-news/milenio/videos/t/ultimos-programas/v/sem-fronteiras-especialistas-falam-sobre-situacao-economica-americana/3458152/
This program was broadcast on Brazilian TV today.
Griesa is going to be really frustrated with Argentina.
Jun 27th, 2014 - 08:05 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I wonder what he is going to do with them?
Two things I learned from reading MP:
1) Never, never loan an Argentine so much as a bloody dime. Talk about “mañoso”!!
2) Clearly something is wrong with the water that flows from the Andes into Argentina.
He's ordered the US Bank to send the money back to the Republic.
Jun 27th, 2014 - 08:13 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Clever man.
@15 changing the government can and will be done, but it will be a Peronist one. Taking out the Peronists would be too messy and there are no real alternatives, the only ones who are actually doing something against the Peronists are the Communists.
Jun 27th, 2014 - 08:55 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@17 we do pay taxes, but they are all sent into a black hole, no matter how much we pay and how much we work.
@19 yes due to the RUFO clause if we pay the holdouts we could pay a lot more than 15 billion. The problem isn't how much we have to pay but how long the lenders are willing to wait. Argentina can't make larger payments than we already have, otherwise it would trigger civil war and that will benefit nobody.
25. You need to go through a structured and managed default with IMF backing.
Jun 27th, 2014 - 09:07 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Take away all budgetary control from the Prez/Congress.
I'm pretty sure this is what will eventually happen.
Who knows if you'll be boiling shoes by then tho.
I know there are a lot of good people in Argentina.....far from the trolls on this site and I only wish them the best after 2015.
Jun 27th, 2014 - 09:09 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Here's a thought for us all.. Say you've a decision pending at scotus, it may go for or against you. You've got time now, but after the decision time will be short and further delays will make your predicament worse. Do you howl at the moon about vultures, piss into the wind about the Falklands, or get a bunch of people together with some nouse and work out some deal options that you can actually deliver on?
Jun 27th, 2014 - 09:09 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Our World Cup is going very well!
Jun 27th, 2014 - 09:14 pm - Link - Report abuse 0https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QBNSRHIr9tU&index=1&list=FLmXPTu1f8AdGlizWNiASx2A
@26
Jun 27th, 2014 - 09:24 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“or get a bunch of people together with some nouse and work out some deal options that you can actually deliver on?”
If they were able to do that, they wouldn't be in this mess in the first place. They manage their economy like a drug addict would manage a pharmacy...
Griesa did say he'd issue arrest warrants if they tried to pay again without authorization.
Jun 27th, 2014 - 09:51 pm - Link - Report abuse 0That would be hilarious!
Doesnt Kilicoff not realice that Argentina comments meant for internal consumption are immediately available on the net? Ridculing the judgement as absurd and questioning the impartiality of a US court?
Jun 27th, 2014 - 09:52 pm - Link - Report abuse 0A great way to influence people and gain friends at court
All they ask for is a little fairness.
Jun 27th, 2014 - 10:18 pm - Link - Report abuse 0All the court asks for is a little respect, try it!
“Any attempt to make payment to the exchange bondholders without complying with [my order to pay the remaining bondholders at the same time] is illegal,” said US District Court Judge Thomas Griesa.
Jun 27th, 2014 - 10:23 pm - Link - Report abuse 0hmmm
They really need to learn to keep their mouths shut.
Jun 27th, 2014 - 10:38 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Everyday they denigrate the judge and the next day ask for forgiveness.
That's going to wear thin very soon.
And they're going to get a really nasty slap.
I have a theory about why they behave like they do. Starting out intending to talk seriously but then always ending up making a derogatory remark or insult.
Jun 27th, 2014 - 10:46 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Tourette's Syndrome.
I think they are not used to dealing with adults. I had the same experience when I lived there and tried to negotiate with them. They all act like spoiled children, if you present a decent offer they'll bang on the table, scream at you and act like fools. I learned that if you do it right back they'll immediately back down.
Jun 27th, 2014 - 10:55 pm - Link - Report abuse 0They are strong with the weak and weak with the strong
cowards
You lived a short time. Maybe you missed the opportunity to learn about some virtues that embarrass you.
Jun 27th, 2014 - 11:01 pm - Link - Report abuse 0https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xV7ZzeBR3oc
What's a singing monk got to do with is topic Brasileiro?
Jun 28th, 2014 - 01:01 am - Link - Report abuse 0What does money have to do with your life?
Jun 28th, 2014 - 01:39 am - Link - Report abuse 0@9
Jun 28th, 2014 - 04:22 am - Link - Report abuse 0Argentina no longer posts records of many activities because collection of data is overrated.
@39
Jun 28th, 2014 - 04:34 am - Link - Report abuse 0Argentina no longer posts records of many activities because collection of data would reveal the truth.
Even if that were the case, not much you can do and quite frankly, nothing you need to get your nose in anyway. Its our numbers, only affects us.
Jun 28th, 2014 - 04:37 am - Link - Report abuse 0@41
Jun 28th, 2014 - 04:49 am - Link - Report abuse 0That will be the case when the doctrine of Argentine impunity becomes more widely accepted outside Argentina. Until then, you're stuck with the fact that no-one will trust you..
What could be the solution to solve IMMEDIATELY the Holdout problem?
Jun 28th, 2014 - 07:14 am - Link - Report abuse 0Argentina owes to today about 230% to the Holdouts (capital + accrued interest since 2002)
If Argentina made a buyback offer of about 150-170%, it presumably would not violate the RUFO clause, because it would not be an exchange offer.
A buyback offer through a bank would definitively not violate the RUFO clause.
Such a cash buyback would also give Argentina a debt relief ob about 60-80%.
AND
Seizure risks and a technical Default would be immediately averted. Argentina could immediately return to the capital market and thus Argentina could refinance the payments to the holdouts, without using reserves.
Tic toc :-)
Jun 28th, 2014 - 07:58 am - Link - Report abuse 0@ 43
Jun 28th, 2014 - 11:59 am - Link - Report abuse 0You don't get it, do you?
Argentina don't GAF about the holdouts and even if they did they DON'T HAVE THE MONEY.
They are broke and cannot afford the CNG for this winter, that much is clear if you follow what they have claimed they have and we know what they MUST spend to keep people warm.
The two don't add up.
The U$D 1 Bn to NYC Mellon was most likely the last gasp that Kickitoff had and he bet on the judge kicking them into the weeds and the whining “we wanted to pay but the judge didn't let us” has already started as some of us knew it would.
Apparently AxelK is leaking Economy Ministry announcements to his cronies before the press so they can trade on the bond gap.
Jun 28th, 2014 - 12:02 pm - Link - Report abuse 0So maybe the crazy announcements are not so crazy after all.
These people are dirty dirty dirty.
@24 that would be a good idea, except if you cut the money to the mafia you get this
Jun 28th, 2014 - 12:58 pm - Link - Report abuse 0http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ogH92yAGbew
BTW, many of those looters were the police itself, and the strike was done shortly after policemen involved in drug dealings were arrested and was probably done to overthrow the gov't (they were very close). Not to mention the massive political cost of austerity, but the average people bends over all the time, it's the mafia behind the government that has the power to fight. That's what I mean when I say the country is close to a civil war. As soon as the mafia within the state doesn't have the money, there is chaos.
47. I hope so. You need a cleansing. Burn everything to the ground so you can start again.
Jun 28th, 2014 - 01:53 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Commenting for this story is now closed.
If you have a Facebook account, become a fan and comment on our Facebook Page!