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Queen Elizabeth christens new aircraft carrier; the largest ship built for the Royal Navy

Saturday, July 5th 2014 - 08:59 UTC
Full article 88 comments

The Royal Navy’s new aircraft carrier has been officially named by Her Majesty the Queen at a ceremony in Scotland on Friday. Hundreds of workers who have helped to build the HMS Queen Elizabeth, along with the ship’s company, joined the Prime Minister, Defence Secretary, military Chiefs and dignitaries to witness Her Majesty christen her namesake with a bottle of whisky. Read full article


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  • Martin Woodhead

    With a couple of type 45s and pair of astute class subs the Qe could monster all of latam let alone argentina so thats the falklands safe for another 50 years.

    Jul 05th, 2014 - 09:33 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Britworker

    Yes coupled with her sister ship, which I understand we are now keeping and will be called Ark Royal, never mind bloody Argentina, they are insignificant, aside from the US (our closest ally) we are more than a match for any country on the planet.
    Our overseas resources and territories around the globe are quite safe.

    Jul 05th, 2014 - 10:44 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Conqueror

    And after HMS Queen Elizabeth and HMS Prince of Wales/Ark Royal, comes the new fleet of Type 26 frigates, the remaining five astute-class fleet submarines, the new Successor-class of ballistic missile submarines and the three Ocean Patrol Vessels. The Royal Navy has had to change tack from a Cold War operation to a renewed global naval power. Still, about six years and it'll be all good to go.

    For anyone thinking of mocking the current lack of fast jets for the carriers, they are rotary wing capable from the moment the flight deck goes on. The offensive capability is maintained by Lynx Wildcat, Merlin and Apache helicopters. Notably the Apache is about the fastest helicopter in the world!

    Jul 05th, 2014 - 11:20 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Cognitio

    Marvellous to see. It's good to see a reorientation of British Defence strategy back to prioritising Sea Power. The UK is almost unique in being an island nation with a large economy. It means we could concentrate our defence resources into a powerful navy and that alone would be strong enough to defend our territory. It is wonderful to see the Royal Navy re emerging again to its natural position as the strongest navy in Europe. Whilst I've heard a lot of rubbish spoken about the F35B and speculation on the future of the Second Carrier the mood music coming from the people who know in the MOD is all pretty positive. Not only will we get the second carrier but I think we're also going to buy enough aircraft in order to operate them both concurrently. There'll be an initial order for 48 xF35B's in the next few months followed by a follow up order later in the decade when Tornado starts to retire and the Prince of Wales comes online.

    Jul 05th, 2014 - 12:05 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Clyde15

    I hate to rain on your parade BUT where is the money coming for all these ships ? The Trident renewal alone is taking up 35% of the defence budget.
    I read an article by the designer of the Type 26 who complained that he has to keep downsizing the specifications to meet Treasury expenditure cuts.
    The RN will probably not end up with the ship they want but what the treasury decide to give them, as in previous decades.
    I don't think your rotary air wing is much good for attacking targets 500nm from the carrier and defended by sophisticated SAM sites and modern jet fighters.
    As an example of MOD thinking, 3 years ago, two Tornados from RAF Lossiemouth were involved in a mid-air collision resulting in the deaths of 3 crew members and serious injury to the other. This could have been avoided with the fitting of collision warning systems recommended in 1996 !
    I don't think any of the current fleet of Typhoons have been fitted with this system. Anything to save a few bob here and there while splurging money on projects that end up being cancelled.

    Jul 05th, 2014 - 12:05 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Britworker

    Yes maybe if the worst prime minister in history Gordon Brown hadn't have sold the nations gold at rock bottom price, we could have used that?

    Jul 05th, 2014 - 01:06 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Philippe

    God save the Queen, and the RN!


    Jul 05th, 2014 - 01:30 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Tim

    Want to see what a Lynx helicopter can do??

    Jul 05th, 2014 - 01:45 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ilsen

    What a superb effort by all concerned! The UK can be very proud of this superb achievement.

    Jul 05th, 2014 - 02:51 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • aussiesunshinee

    has anybody seen the aircraft that should be aboard this white elephant???ummmm

    Jul 05th, 2014 - 03:06 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • golfcronie

    Coming to a place near you. THE FALKLANDS

    Jul 05th, 2014 - 03:19 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ilsen

    aussiesunshine. Put your asinine comment into context. Where are you from and does your country have anything comparable? Do you even have the capability or finance to construct anything similar?

    Come on. Tell us all.

    So easy to snipe from the sidelines...... anonymous coward. .....

    Jul 05th, 2014 - 04:17 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Clyde15

    Come to the RIAT at Fairford on 11/13 August and you will see at least 3 of them.

    When can we expect to see your highly advanced Pampers....if ever !

    Jul 05th, 2014 - 04:31 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Martin Woodhead

    Trident doeant come from the defence budget

    Jul 05th, 2014 - 04:45 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ilsen


    Please explain

    Jul 05th, 2014 - 05:07 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Clyde15

    If that is the case then the defence budget will be reduced to take account of this

    Jul 05th, 2014 - 06:22 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Briton

    Gibraltar welcomes #HMSDiamond.
    And not a Spanish arrogant attitude in sight.??
    [ we wonder why .]
    HMS Ocean sailed from Devonport for sea trails today after major £65m refit
    HMS Illustrious prior to departure Rosyth this morning
    UK Military Helicopters flypast #HMSQUEENELIZABETH
    Four greats, ready-steady-GO?

    Shame we have a ball, less, government to lead them..
    Proud to be British…..

    Jul 05th, 2014 - 06:26 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ilsen

    Great stuff. Now over to you Argentina. What you got?

    Surely aussiesunshine can post something equivalent?

    Jul 05th, 2014 - 06:29 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Briton

    We wait in

    Jul 05th, 2014 - 06:40 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Clyde15

    Have a look at these:-

    The cross-party Trident Commission said the UK should retain and deploy a nuclear arsenal for reasons of national security and its responsibilities to Nato.
    It said: “Over the life of the project, it can be expected that capital, running and decommissioning costs associated with the nuclear weapons project account for roughly 9-10% of the overall defence budget, though into the 2020s we will experience a higher spend, and after that a smaller amount

    ”New analysis by the Royal United Service Institute (RUSI) shows that spending on the Trident replacement programme looks set to consume one third of the UK's military equipment budget for most of the 2020s – and beyond.”

    Both of these organisations seem to think it is part of the defence budget !

    Jul 05th, 2014 - 06:43 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Briton

    Chancellor George Osborne tells Channel 4 News the Ministry of Defence will have to pay for a replacement for the UK's nuclear deterrent in the latest salvo of an ongoing row between the Treasury and the Ministry of Defence.
    His comments contradicted claims by the Defence Secretary Dr Liam Fox that talks were “constantly going” on which department would be responsible for the £20bn cost of replacing Trident.

    Jul 05th, 2014 - 07:02 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Cognitio

    There's a defence review due in 2016 I think which will decide on the second carriers future...although the additional operating costs of about £18 million pounds a year is peanuts and Hammonds wants her. There's a NATO commitment to spend 2% of GDP on defence which is going to be re ratified in the forthcoming NATO conference in Newport in September which Cameron will be forced to stick to plus we have a growing economy. Combine that with a signifcantly smaller army to pay for in 2016 (down to 82000) and you should get enough slack in the defence budget to pay for both carriers and enough F35's to keep both the RAF and Fleet air arm happy. Although I'm advised the initial order will be for 48 the intention is to purchase further airframes later on in the 2020's when the Prince of Wales comes online.

    Jul 05th, 2014 - 07:05 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • The Voice

    17 have your finger on the pulse...
    Can I see it from the Forth Road Bridge....? I'm thinking of having a nosey....maybe take a pic or two....

    Jul 05th, 2014 - 07:24 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • gordo1

    Was Alicia Castro invited to the ceremony? If she was then she is in a position to tell la Kretina and Timerman all about it and so we must expect accusations that the vessel is destined to the Argentine Sea as a threat to peace in the South Atlantic.

    Jul 05th, 2014 - 07:31 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ilsen

    Thanks for all the posts. Informative stuff. I will read up on it after the football!


    Jul 05th, 2014 - 09:41 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Pete Bog


    No-they are stealth aircraft-can Argentina kindly produce some Pampers aircraft for some target drones?

    According to the Malvanistas the UK never manufactures anything and is broke so is this aircraft carrier an illusion?

    Jul 05th, 2014 - 09:51 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Clyde15

    It sounds OK on paper but budgets for equipment have a habit of escalating hugely. I cannot think of any occasion where the original costings have not been wildly underestimated, leading to cutbacks. Were we not promised 12 T45 destroyers and have ended up with 6.

    Our present combat jet force is:-

    Typhoon FGR4 81 44
    F-35B Lightning 11 3 45
    Tornado GR4 94 ----

    Typhoon T.3 21 -----
    Tornado GR4 14 -----

    We had the latest RAF Rivet Joint ELINT training at Prestwick last week.
    Looking at the pictures I took, it is stuffed full of sideways radars, nose radar and bristling with aerials and other sensors. Definitely a secret squirrel.

    You can see the Carrier from the Forth Bridge if you are prepared to drive at 10 mph and stare out the left hand window as you cross from the South. However you are about 1.5 miles from the dockyard at this point.
    As for photos, I would say that it is a no-no unless you have a camera with a 2000mm tele lens.. I can't think of any place you could get a decent picture. However maybe there is someone with local knowledge who could suggest a spot.
    I would wait until she does her trials in the Clyde.

    Jul 05th, 2014 - 09:59 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • aussiesunshinee

    *12 Where I come from the Government spends money on PEOPLE!!
    education and social security..not on rich boys killing machines.
    Look at what has hapened to Britain´s NHS..The first nation to introduce social security for everybody in the world...and look it has been slowly killed was even put into the openoing ceremony of the Olympic games,,,but sadly...NHS is going towards other useless war weapons.I do not snipe from the sidelines..I tell it as I see it....

    Jul 05th, 2014 - 10:56 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • bushpilot

    “useless war weapons”?

    Weaponry is needed to protect against thieves.

    Jul 05th, 2014 - 11:44 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • golfcronie

    I don't know where you come from but it is not South America, they cannot pay their debts let alone pay for free health service as in the UK. The benefits in the Uk are far superior to anything in the LATAM countries.Why do you think the UK has so many immigrants.The UK will spend £ 95.6 billion on the National Health Service in the next year. So you are talking through your arse.

    Jul 05th, 2014 - 11:49 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Troy Tempest

    30 Golfcronie

    It has been speculated that “aussiesunshine” (A.S.S.) is from Spain - he knows nothing about anything and can't even put a hog wrentit timely argument together about Gibraltar.

    Jul 06th, 2014 - 12:36 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • War Monkey

    20 Clyde15 (#)

    Yes it is a difficult one. Historically, as far as I know, it did not come out of the defence budget. Reason being that it is a strategic political deterrent. I'm not even sure it is officially regarded as a 'weapon................go figure.

    However there have been noises that the government want to take it out of the defence budget after all. That said nothing concrete has been decided yet (again, as far as I know) and the press often doesn't know the difference and will report it as a part of the defence budget anyway.

    If it does though it will have an enormous impact on the defence budget of that there is no doubt.

    Jul 06th, 2014 - 01:00 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ilsen

    @30 golfcronie. Well put. Thank you.

    You still don't tell us where you come from. Thus making your points invalid.
    What is this country you speak of?

    Jul 06th, 2014 - 01:11 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • aussiesunshinee

    Talk sense to a fool and (s)he calls you foolish...

    Jul 06th, 2014 - 02:06 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • downunder

    “aussiesunshine. Put your asinine comment into context. Where are you from ”

    aussiesunshinee! it should be argentinedarkness!

    This person doesnt even know who he/she is! Readers would have alot more respect for clowns like this if, at the very least, they were true to themselves.

    Jul 06th, 2014 - 06:51 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • golfcronie

    Do tell us where you reside so that all on here can decide in which country they would choose to live. I know which I prefer, we will still look after our sick and elderly whatever the cost , have no doubt about that. The NHS has been around for some time and will continue to be.

    Jul 06th, 2014 - 07:31 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Cognitio

    Aussie-Sunshine. The UK govt spends over 4X the amount oh health as it spends on defence. The health service had its budget protected during the recession defence did not. New hospitals or hospitals being rebuilt are a pretty common sight in the UK.

    Jul 06th, 2014 - 08:46 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ilsen

    So where are you looking truly from aussiesunshine?

    Tell us how much your country spends on looking after its elderly and sick.

    Why are you so ashamed of your country Keith?

    Jul 06th, 2014 - 10:24 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Troy Tempest


    “Aussiesunshine” A.S.S. is the most inept hapless Troll on MP - he won't answer, he cannot follow through on anything he says.

    Jul 06th, 2014 - 02:50 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • El Diego

    What many of us knew for some time has just been made public regarding a paedophile ring inside the British political establishment that has been covered up for years - sexual abuse of children by british politicians - something quite repugnant and unimaginable here in South America - I hope the brit posters here are as equally proud of this type of behavior as they are of the stealing of other peoples lands and resources

    Jul 06th, 2014 - 04:54 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Conqueror

    @5. Sorry, are you not keeping up with the socio-economic picture? In the near future, we willbe getting rid of scotchland, saving ourselves at least £41 billion a year. Pushing through to the end of your drivel, can I point out that English Typhoon pilots have available a revolutionary new binocular system called “eyes”. A similar system is made available to scotch pilots although it suffers from certain faults. These are known as “bloodshot”, “crossed”, “drunk”, “fuzzy” and “closed”. No need for you to “worry” about OUR Typhoons when your next “farce” will consist of balloons and gliders. Sorry, that would be “party balloons” and “paper gliders”. The “Scotch Air Farce”. Dead before it can find a cliff to be pushed over!
    @10. Are we talking about the Pilatus? The only Australian aircraft in the world!
    @20. Doesn't matter. WE're having them. YOU're not.
    @27. Any thoughts about getting your figures close to correct? Pissed again? 117 Typhoons. 102 Tornados.
    @28. Where YOU come from there are NO “people” and NO money.
    @34. It's what you get when you're a dildo-engulfing faggot.
    @40. Oh, I agree. Is there anyone in argieland who doesn't shag up the arse? Aren't that what your kids are for? If it isn't, why do you shag them so much? I thought it was practice until you could get a cheap, desperate slag with no principles! There's one in Casa Rosada. Name of Timoplonk. Any way you like. But, to be fair, it is suggested that he's quite a sucker!

    Jul 06th, 2014 - 05:35 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Briton

    23 The Voice
    Sorry it has sailed, but some nice pictures here.

    Here's the view of #HMSQueenElizabeth's naming ceremony from @RAFRed8
    And HMS Illustrious together,
    They say Elizabeth is 3 times its size, but looking at the picture, illustrious don’t look that smaller. ??
    Abetter picture here,
    With the Queen's permission, splice the mainbrace
    we now spend nearly 12 billion on people, foreign people that is, with our overseas aid..

    Jul 06th, 2014 - 06:23 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Pete Bog


    “I hope the brit posters here are as equally proud of this type of behaviour”

    To be honest there are few politicians I rate at all and if politicians are guilty hopefully they will go to jail,but the only compensation is that even British politicians couldn't be as stupid, unreferenced bullshitters as Argentine politicians.

    You seem to forget that if you are delving into our regrettable past, we can delve into yours-your Nazis of the 1970s/1980s were responsible for gouging the eyes out of priests, and chucking people out of aircraft into the sea (not forgetting the acid baths some of your people were treated to).

    How many people were disappeared thanks to your 'paragons of virtue' ?

    “as they are of the stealing of other peoples lands and resources”

    Like your people did when they stole Patagonia off the natives?

    When your Nazi heroes tried to steal the Falklands?

    Good thing 'the police' came in 1982 to kick your pirates off, wasn't it amigo?

    Jul 06th, 2014 - 07:59 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Clyde15

    #41 C****
    When you sober up -if possible - download the latest World's Air Forces 2014 from Flight.
    I quote directly.
    They give the figures for current RAF aircraft as:-

    Combat aircraft
    Typhoon FGR4 Active 81 Ordered 47
    F-35B “” “” 3 “” “” 45
    Tornado GR4 “” “” 94 NIL

    Training aircraft
    Typhoon T3 “” “” 21 NIL
    Tornado GR4 “” “” 14 NIL

    That makes 102 Typhoons and 108 Tornados.
    Now should I believe YOU or Flight magazine ?

    “Scotch” pilots can't be all that good as there are only 3 in the Red Arrows Team. Let me see, England has 10 times the population of Scotland and you cannot make up the Red Arrows with pure bred English pilots. What an admission of failure !
    I can peddle as much mindless crap as you can but your rantings are amusing as they reveal a pathetic individual who is so consumed with hate that he can't think rationally about anything.
    For another “useless Scotch Test Pilot” Google Eric “Winkle” Brown .
    You have had nothing to touch him !

    The English posters on here must cringe with embarrassment at the thought that YOU represent England's point of view. Why don't you post your rants to the Telegraph and Daily Mail and see what happens.

    I can just imagine you foaming at the mouth at the sight of YOUR QUEEN being forced to come to Scotland to name an English ship which was made in Scotland AND they are building it's sister. Oh the national disgrace to England land ! How can you stand the shame !
    As we seem incapable of doing anything right, you can expect all the Type 45's to roll over and sink anytime now. Surely the same fate must await the HMS Queen Elizabeth when they float her out of the dock into Scottish waters.
    Bye for now.

    Jul 06th, 2014 - 08:39 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • JollyGoodFun

    @41 - seriously Conqueror you need to adjust your line of thought.

    Being born in Scotland to a Welsh father and an English mother, with Scottish ancestors through my clan name, I can well and truly state with an honest heart that Scots are some of the finest people in the British Isles.

    Almost all Brits are a mixture of English, Welsh, Irish, Scottish, French, Dutch, German, Swedish etc.

    The problem is we can all be guilty at times of opening our mouths before thinking, and on this occasion I believe you've fallen foul of this.

    Jul 07th, 2014 - 12:31 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • knarfw

    44 Clyde, I don't cringe at Conq's posts as I stopped reading them months ago.

    Jul 07th, 2014 - 11:32 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • DonMateo

    All of the Argentine navy will have sunk in the harbor by the time this great ship is operational. Its just a matter of time. The Argentines could put a couple of machine guns on frigate la libertad and try and take the Falklands again. When the default again I am sure Cristina will consider it.

    Jul 07th, 2014 - 03:06 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • pgerman

    uppsss...I cannot understand why, with such big wallet, are you, British people in the FI, still begging for the argentine air space or for the argentine territotial waters to be connected with the World.

    Came on you can pay for direct flights from FI to London !!!!

    Camo, you can do it without any need of playing the role of the victim !!!!

    I hope all those who proudly write here about the carrier were so corageous as Mr. “Conqueror” and write more letters asking the UK PM to cancel all the LAN flights to Chile. He promissed me he had already sent it.

    Jul 07th, 2014 - 05:03 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • reality check

    One thing is sure, you would be mad to fly Aerolinas Argentina.

    Seen the latest incident at Barcelona Airport? One of their aircraft only taxied across the path of a landing aircraft!!!

    Search, “near miss Barcelona airport.”

    Jul 07th, 2014 - 05:51 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Briton

    Everything that needs to be done, will be done,

    The main problem with today’s British politicians [well most of em ]
    Are they seem to want to give our wealth to foreigners and remove it from their own people, and it takes them decades to get of their backsides to do anything,
    Apart from that we do ok,
    So if argieland did stop the flights or, over flight their territory, then we would find an alternative, because that’s what we are good at,

    You Argies on the other hand are only good at complaining , bragging , and picking on the innocent..

    Jul 07th, 2014 - 06:14 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • pgerman


    I'm not saying that Argentina and CFK, who is only interested in stealing money, will interrupt the flights. I am inviting you not to be so stingy and start using the UK funds, that seems to be a lot of money, to be connected with the world. Argentina seesm to be a problem for you so why would wealthy, and proud, people like you begg for CFK favors? You don't need CFK, or argentine, favors....

    Take for instance Mr. Conqueror that sent a letter to the British PM urging for stopping direct flights in a one sided decision.

    Jul 07th, 2014 - 06:26 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • zathras

    49 reality check (#)
    you mean this

    The other aircraft was russian, very good pilot.

    Jul 07th, 2014 - 06:33 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Briton

    why would wealthy, and proud, people like you beg for CFK favour's? You don't need CFK, or argentine, favours

    well im not wealthy, that's for sure, just working class old chap,,

    but I do agree , we don't need anything from CFK.

    Jul 07th, 2014 - 06:33 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • pgerman


    You don't need anything from CFK. But not only this, you don't need anything neither from Argentina nor from Chile.

    It seems that the best think you can do is to cut all the connections with the Continent so you don't need to complain about alledged blockages from CFK and Argentina.

    Jul 07th, 2014 - 06:38 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Briton

    mm not that simple,
    its called politics......

    Jul 07th, 2014 - 06:49 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Clyde15

    Well I enjoy eating Chilean cherries out of season !

    Jul 07th, 2014 - 07:21 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ilsen

    Will there be blockades after the default?

    Jul 07th, 2014 - 08:25 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • toooldtodieyoung

    44 Clyde15

    Just a quick question, if I may......

    Isn't the the F35B supposed to be replacing the Tornados?

    Unless I am mistaken, the figure you quoted look incorrect.

    I mean replacing 94 Tornado's with only 45 F35B???

    There must be a mistake.... Our Peerless leaders in Westminster wouldn't gamble with our safety for the sake of a few pounds would they?

    Oh hang on, wait a minute.......

    Jul 07th, 2014 - 08:28 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ilsen

    @56, you durrty old man! (a la Steptoe & Son)

    Jul 07th, 2014 - 09:47 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • golfcronie

    That sounds like a traffic control mistake, unless of course the pilot of AA could not speak English or something got lost in translation, fortunetley noone was hurt.

    Jul 08th, 2014 - 06:46 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • reality check

    Even when the tower gives clearance to cross an active runway, the onus is on the pilot, driver of a service vehicle, etc, to check that it is safe to do so, it's basic safety in an Aircraft manoeuvring area.

    Looks like both were at fault, the controller and the captain of the aircraft.

    Jul 08th, 2014 - 09:41 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Clyde15

    Yes the F-35 will replace the Tornado but so will the Typhoon in ground attack mode.
    The Tornado is over 35 years old and time has moved on. It will be increasingly difficult for it to survive against sophisticated defence systems plus the fleet is getting progressively worn out.
    If you look at how air forces worldwide have been getting smaller because newer aircraft can do the job better than their predecessors.
    In WW2, we had dozens of bomber squadrons sent against one target to plaster the area in the hope of a hit against a primary target.
    When we got the V Bomber force, we needed a lot fewer aircraft to do a comparable job.
    Each generation of new aircraft needed less numbers as they were more accurate in delivering their weapons
    The F-35 is designed to penetrate enemy airspace, be all but invisible to the defences, deliver it's ordnance with pin-point accuracy and get out alive. Something the Tornado would not be able to do in the future.
    Someone has calculated that 146 Typhoons and 48 F-35's will meet the requirements in any foreseeable conflict. However I am sure budget restrictions also are playing a part in this. If we ever do get into conflict with Russia or China then it will be a NATO operation with joint forces - -our numbers being added to the pool.
    I remember reading an article about fighter numbers in the UK in the 1960's compared with the Soviet Union and the USA.
    The UK due to it's geographical size and with a much smaller numerical force, had a higher density of fighter aircraft to guard our airspace than the USA and Russia.

    Jul 08th, 2014 - 10:02 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Briton

    We need more,

    Jul 08th, 2014 - 01:29 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Clyde15

    While we are on the subject, all F-35's have been grounded.

    Based on the findings of an initial report into the 23 June fire that broke out aboard an F-35A at Eglin AFB, the DoD has mandated further checks of the JSF fleet’s Pratt & Whitney F135 powerplants.

    It says: “Additional inspections of F-35 engines have been ordered, and return to flight will be determined based on inspection results and analysis of engineering data.”

    Sounds like in-service date slipping again.
    Should have used Rolls Royce !!!

    Jul 08th, 2014 - 04:28 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Briton

    Perhaps we should go back to inventing making and producing our very own planes again,
    it seems that all these partners we have, just makes todays planes ten times more expensive.

    Jul 08th, 2014 - 06:12 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Leiard

    @65 Briton

    “Aerospace giant BAE Systems has completed the manufacture of the 150th F-35 rear fuselage and tail set at its military aircraft factory in Samlesbury, Lancashire.”

    Jul 08th, 2014 - 08:05 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Clyde15

    No chance. It would be even more expensive. Look at the TSR2, Nimrod AEW 3, and Nimrod MRA4. All cost a fortune and we ended up with nothing.

    Jul 09th, 2014 - 08:44 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Briton

    You have a point, but would you consider it=corruption greed , incompetence , and pure carelessness, rather than straight forward cost,.

    Jul 09th, 2014 - 10:55 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Clyde15

    To build a modern hi-tech aircraft takes at least 5 years from planning, design and construction. To keep the costs per aircraft within manageable levels, export markets are needed so tooling and research costs can be spread over a larger base, reducing unit costs..
    Initial budgets are always optimistic and always rise over the lifetime of a project. Historically, in the UK, it is because the military, via MOD, want specification upgrades during build, or in the case of the Typhoon, a ground attack facility for what was designed as an air superiority fighter.
    The costs of going it alone are too great for any country -including the USA. France built it's Rafale but at a huge cost. Russia builds it's own aircraft but the public have no say in the costs of these projects.

    So, basically, we don't build our own advanced combat aircraft because we cannot afford to do so.

    Jul 09th, 2014 - 12:10 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Chicureo

    I hate to think that the F35 is a boondoggle, but it seems even less reliable and useful than the F22. I understand the Canadians are planning to drop it from consideration as well as the Australians.
    Let's hope they get the bugs worked out.

    Jul 09th, 2014 - 12:49 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Troy Tempest

    70 dropping consideration of the F-35 or F- 22

    Jul 09th, 2014 - 03:18 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • aussiesunshinee

    *49 and you would be mad to fly with British Airways with the near miss
    collision between BA and a Swiss plane on London airport...AND AT

    Jul 09th, 2014 - 05:15 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Briton

    OH well,
    back to the drawing board then,

    meanwhile two very interesting items for the cognisor military interests..

    Incredible photo of HMS Queen Elizabeth alongside HMS Illustrious.
    Highlighting the size difference! .
    If one is interested in a professional opinion
    See Sharkey” Ward DSC AFC
    And his opinion of government/MOD incompetence
    Very interesting reading….

    Jul 09th, 2014 - 06:24 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • toooldtodieyoung

    71 Troy Tempest

    I did hear a rumour to the effect that because the Americans thought that the F-22 raptor was so advanced and the software they were putting in it was so secret that they were quite prepared to burden the whole cost of developing and building it themselves rather than have such high tech weaponry potentially ranged against them. So they weren't going to export it, not even to their allies.

    I must stress that this was only a rumour.

    Jul 10th, 2014 - 08:45 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Troy Tempest

    74 tooOld

    I find it interesting that the 35 “won” the competition, yet the is continual buzz about the Raptor and it hasn't been abandoned outright as an unsuccessful “also-ran”.

    Either someone is secretly interested, or the US is hedging its bets, as more and more allies seem reluctant to “buy-in” to the F-35

    Jul 10th, 2014 - 09:53 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Clyde15

    The F-22 was designed as an air superiority fighter to outfight the SU27 series. It's design started much earlier than the F-35 and it did suffer in-flight problems with it's pilot oxygen supply system. I presume that this has now been fixed.
    The specification for the F-35 was for a stealthy multi-role aircraft which is a more difficult brief.
    In bidding for the contract, assumptions were made that all the promised equipment can be assimilated and will work. Not always the case.
    Remember, that this is the cutting edge of technology. New materials in construction, new engines to be developed and hopefully all brought together in a package that will work. I am sure that it will work eventually and be a success but at what cost !

    Jul 11th, 2014 - 10:34 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • aussiesunshinee

    What defence have these ships got against the sizzler missiles???
    They are sitting ducks in the ocean........

    Jul 11th, 2014 - 10:59 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Troy Tempest

    77 A.S.S.

    oh, probably nothing, try attacking one.

    You have shown us that you are so clever.

    You can stop posting now.

    Jul 12th, 2014 - 05:58 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Clyde15

    It's called a Type 45 Destroyer.

    Jul 12th, 2014 - 08:45 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • aussiesunshinee

    Against a supersonic missile??? ummmmm I dont think so!!!

    Jul 12th, 2014 - 04:06 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Clyde15

    And you are an expert on missile technology ? Why in God's name do you think they designed and built the T45's sea viper anti missile system It was to counter such a threat. You don't really know much about naval tactics in a carrier task group do you.......sorry, you don't really know much about anything !
    Against Argentina's navy or air force, a child's catapult would do !

    Jul 12th, 2014 - 07:02 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Briton

    If he was that clever and informed, he would be working for David would he not...
    or is he already .lol ??

    Jul 12th, 2014 - 07:09 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ilsen

    He is in fantasy land. Argentina doesn't have a supersonic anything. Don't bother to engage with this dreamer.

    Jul 12th, 2014 - 09:29 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Troy Tempest

    82 83

    Fergit A.S.S

    Please more info on anti-Maduro happenings in VeneCuba

    Jul 12th, 2014 - 09:33 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ilsen

    Sure Troy.
    Give me a 'bump' on the Venezuela promises to honour debts article and I will show how they are lying. Plus some interesting stuff on corruption and how the whole charade is now unravelling. ..

    Jul 13th, 2014 - 12:18 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Briton

    Dave the brave has given the military another billion odd, to help,

    nice one Dave, to little to late, but nice one anyway..

    Jul 14th, 2014 - 08:32 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Clyde15

    Did you see that £300m will go towards projects including a new electronic radar for the RAF's Typhoon jets, and the purchase of the Ice Patrol Ship HMS Protector. Why do we need an ice patrol vessel ?...I wonder !

    Jul 14th, 2014 - 09:34 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ilsen

    at least we won't have to buy one twice over, like the Argies did. Paid more for a refurb than a new ship and still not ready. Lol.

    Jul 14th, 2014 - 10:07 pm - Link - Report abuse 0

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