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The Economist on Argentina: “The Luis Suarez of international finance”

Saturday, July 5th 2014 - 08:48 UTC
Full article 147 comments

In its latest edition The Economist writes about Argentina’s debt stand-off, and states this “reflects a teenage attitude that rules are there to be broken”. Read full article

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  • Idlehands

    Somebody call for an ambulance. An entire nation just got burned.

    Jul 05th, 2014 - 09:27 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Think

    TWIMC
    Article says...:
    Argentina's Debt Stand Off “reflects a teenage attitude that rules are there to be broken”.

    I say...:
    In contraposition to England's stand on CRIMINAL BANKSTERS, LIBOR SCANDALS and 95% of the World's TAX HAVENS being Engrish........... that clearly reflects the ”Grown Up” Engrish attitude that rules are made & broken by themselves...

    Jul 05th, 2014 - 09:36 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Anglotino

    Amazing article. Very true.

    Helps explain people like Think and Nostrils.

    Jul 05th, 2014 - 09:37 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ElaineB

    As I have said so many times on here: Argentina is the feckless, reckless teenager of South America. They need to grow up.

    Jul 05th, 2014 - 09:48 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • stick up your junta

    Argie outlook on life
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lqm8JGnSshE

    Jul 05th, 2014 - 09:52 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Think

    TWIMC

    Article rightly says...,:
    “The point is to work to change unfair rules, rather than ignore them.”
    I say...:
    Well..., that's exactly what my boy Kicilllof is doing these days in Watchington....

    Article wrongly says...:
    “Argentina’s foreign reserves are close to a seven-year low.”
    I say...:
    Well... that was true in January, when reserves were about U$ 27.000 million...
    Today, they are at U$ 29.300 million...

    Article ends saying...:
    “Sooner or later, reality has a way of biting back.”
    I say...:
    That's exactly what the Vulture Funds with Mr. “Asbestos” Singer as front figure are beginning to realize...

    Jul 05th, 2014 - 09:54 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Lord Ton

    Time to grow up Think - even you old man :-)

    200 years of supposed evolution and the South American satates are still as juvenile as the were in the early 1800's.

    There is little hope for any of them. Perhaps they should be re-colonized to bring them into the adult world.

    Life's a bitch, ain't it old-un

    :-)

    Jul 05th, 2014 - 10:13 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Think

    Grow up...?
    No way, my dear Lorton...
    The ladies down here prefer me juvenile as I am...
    Life can also be pretty tolerable laddie..., even through the lack of a proper jar of Engrish ale... ;-)

    Jul 05th, 2014 - 10:26 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Anbar

    Think: proving the article's point without even realising it.

    priceless.

    Jul 05th, 2014 - 10:39 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Think

    Turnip at (9)
    What “Article”...?
    You mean the above “piece of brainwash” written by a Engrish Neo Liberal magazine created, owned and run by people like this?...:
    http://www.gregpalast.com/romneys-billionaire-vulturepaul-singer-the-gops-baddie-sugar-daddie/

    Jul 05th, 2014 - 10:49 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Conqueror

    Poor Twinky. Off in fantasy land again. A little bit of research shows that about 97 states can reasonable be called “tax havens” or, as they are known these days, offshore financial centres. By Twinky's geriatric claim, about 5 of them should be other than “Engrish”. Whatever that is? So let's go down the list. Andorra is “latino”, isn't it? As are Brazil, Chile, Costa Rica, Dominican Republic, Guatemala, Italy, Mexico, Panama, Portugal, Spain and Uruguay. So TWELVE of the world's “tax havens” are “latino”. That's TWELVE per cent. The 95% is beginning to look a bit weak. How many are “Asian”? At least ELEVEN. There's another ELEVEN per cent that aren't “Engrish”. Then there are the Continental European ones. TWENTY-ONE of those! So FORTY-FOUR aren't “Engrish”. It's so easy to prove that Twinky is a geriatric mouthpiece for the Kirchners. Must be getting his instructions from Nestor. And then all that garbage about the reserves. Pay up!

    Jul 05th, 2014 - 10:51 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Britworker

    I would say The Economist has got it completely right, they have cried wolf way too many times and people are sick of hearing it , it's time they took a good long look at themselves.

    Jul 05th, 2014 - 10:54 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Leiard

    @10 Think

    You mean the “piece of brainwash” written by Greg Palast an agenda-driven left-wing activist is more worthy.

    That the BBC still thinks this agenda-driven left-wing activist is worth hiring says much about the corporation’s journalistic integrity and impartiality.

    Jul 05th, 2014 - 11:13 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Lord Ton

    Good to hear the ladies are still attentive Think. Mine has moved me “up-country” soon to be 25km from the nearest bar. Accused me of having too much fun in Pattaya. Looks like I'll be raising mango trees and annoying Filmus. Well, eveyone should have a hobby :-)

    Jul 05th, 2014 - 11:23 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Think

    Turnip at (13)

    Do you have ANY link.... from ANY, left or right agenda driven or not, source that gives us..., little folks..., ANY difering insight about how Paul “Asbestos” Singer made and makes his billions?

    Just ONE?

    Jul 05th, 2014 - 11:23 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • yankeeboy

    Has this reporter from the Economist been reading my posts?
    A whole country plagued with arrested development.
    They are also going to pay a heavy price for railing against the US Courts. This foolishness will not be soon forgotten at State.

    Don't they wonder why we have denied WB IDB loans? Anyone remember Timmerman boarding our jet? Yeah that's why.

    Well this payback will be even worse.

    I hope Singer starts taking LNG shipments in August after the default. The over WTO nations highly tax or forbid their raw oil imports.

    Funny I've not heard of any YPF investments since they've paid Repsol.
    Have you?
    There's more o/g investment $ going to the Falklands. A lot more.

    They deserve everything they have coming to them and probably a generation worth of it.

    Jul 05th, 2014 - 11:49 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Think

    (14) Mr. Lorton
    Too attentive sometimes… Especially a certain widow nearby that apparently would like me to ”tend her fences” on a permanent basis…
    Enough about me..., laddie.
    …15 miles from the nearest pub and surrounded by millions of bloody mangos, you say?
    She must love you highly ;-)))
    Hereby, a picture of Six Engrish beauties to cheer you up, boy…
    http://www.visitderby.co.uk/files/cache/4f581cb7ec5e02aad07298f6cfd5626a_f1621.jpg

    Jul 05th, 2014 - 11:54 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Anglotino

    If Think is this upset, imagine poor Cristina.

    Jul 05th, 2014 - 12:09 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Porto Margaret

    #15 yapper

    Oh please stop. I thought that at least you would behave with some reason. This is totally of Argentinas own making.

    The squealers have been trying all sorts of stunts and tricks, but to no avail. They are dealing with professionals and more than met their match.

    Tick Tock

    Jul 05th, 2014 - 12:13 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • yankeeboy

    18. Yeah I was thinking the same thing.
    It is the same reaction that happens when you pick up a rock and everything scurries away.

    Jul 05th, 2014 - 12:21 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Mendoza Canadian

    And the prize for teenager of the century goes to....Cristina. Remember when she wouldn't talk to her vice president (Cobos) because he saved her ass and she didn't even realize it? For three whole years!!!

    Jul 05th, 2014 - 12:21 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Britworker

    I think Nestor is handing her the Casa Rosada presidential broom! But I wanted the Nimbus 2000.

    Jul 05th, 2014 - 12:50 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • yankeeboy

    20 When the Nestor the one eyed wonder was elected he knocked himself in the head with that baton while he was meeting the onlookers.
    Then he had to walk around with a bloody head all day.
    Bahahaha

    Jul 05th, 2014 - 12:53 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Think

    TWIMC
    Two more pigs got life yesterday thanks to the Kirchners...
    Monseñor Enrique Angelelli... ¡Presente!

    Jul 05th, 2014 - 01:05 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Falkland Islands

    @2 Mr stink. who cares if Britain is worse or not, this post has nothing to do with Britain, If you want to talk about Britain, you should go and comment on a stary about Britain.

    Jul 05th, 2014 - 01:05 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Britworker

    @23
    Haha, he should have taken it as a warning, god only know where she has been sticking it the past few years.

    Jul 05th, 2014 - 01:11 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Think

    (25) Falkland Islands

    This article was written by an Engrish Neoliberal journalist for an Engrish Neoliberal magazine serving Engrish Neoliberal interest...
    Therefore, I would venture to say that this article has A LOT to do with Britain...

    Jul 05th, 2014 - 01:20 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • HansNiesund

    @25

    It's another aspect of Argenteen syndrome: everything Argenteena does is OK if somebody else can be alleged to have done something similar at some time.

    Jul 05th, 2014 - 01:24 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • The_TroLLing_Stone

    @28

    Not quite, but close. Everything we do is OK, IF the countries that have done the exact same in the past, BUT NOT APOLOGIZED OR PAID THE CONSEQUENCES are now the ones trying to POLICE us.

    You people seem to be big on “consequences”, yet all of you want your countries to avoid the consequences for your actions.

    So you want other countries to pay the consequences, but yours no.

    Jul 05th, 2014 - 01:30 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • reality check

    What a load of bollocks!

    You don't half spout some shit.

    Jul 05th, 2014 - 01:30 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • The_TroLLing_Stone

    Neoliberalism is dead in Argentina forever. An open, trading Argentina is dead forever. An argentine society welcoming of foreigners is soon to be dead, forever.

    Jul 05th, 2014 - 01:32 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • reality check

    Well if neoliberalism is dead in Argentina, it's in good company, because everything else is!

    Jul 05th, 2014 - 01:36 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ilsen

    Sorry Trlley but that is not even an argument. No one is trying to 'police' you.

    They just want their money back. What about a sense of responsibility from Argenteena?

    Jul 05th, 2014 - 01:37 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ChrisR

    Priceless article: PMSL at the sharp stick stuck into the Bug Eye and TMBOA with only light Botox treatment.

    Lunatic is showing his lack of lucidity whilst maintaining his position as “Biggest Liar” on MP, an award he rightly deserves.

    But you have to laugh at the argies thinking the whole world supports the nonsense that comes out of Casa Rosada when the reality is, as all of us know, they are laughing themselves silly at their juvenile antics!

    Jul 05th, 2014 - 01:38 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • The_TroLLing_Stone

    @33

    Again, why does your country not accept the consequences of its actions? Why is it “do as we say not as we did”?

    Jul 05th, 2014 - 01:39 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Joe Bloggs

    Think and Nostrils make me laugh. They both seem to believe that if they say something enough on here the readers will think they believe what they're saying.

    At least Notrils believes we should be left in peace even though a lot of other things he sprouts are nonsense. Unlike Think who doesn't believe we should be left in peace and ALL of things he sprouts on here are nonsense.

    It's good to see those reserves are healthier than that nasty Engrish mag writes Think. All the more with which to pay on the 31st. Either your boy will pay or pay. It's TMBOA's choice.

    Tick tock

    How're your grand kids Think? Do they only see the back of your head these days or does your desk face out into the room?

    Meanwhile Nostrils is modifying his Google Alerts (American website) search criteria:
    US mass shootings (even little ones)
    US gun crime (even alleged crimes)
    US war crimes (dating back 200 years)
    UK war crimes (dating back 900 years and also into the future)
    UK economy (any source)
    UK bankers (including parking tickets)
    UK anything nasty (especially racial allegations)
    US anything nasty (US anything|
    EU financial crisis (only the bad news)
    etc.

    Go outside and enjoy the sunshine you deadbeats. I just got back from a beautiful walk on Cape Pembroke. Slightly icy, about 10 knots and the sun was shining.

    Tick tock.

    Jul 05th, 2014 - 02:01 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • yankeeboy

    If they really had U$29B they wouldn't have to have LNG tankers waiting in Uruguay at U$100K/day penalty until they get their wire.
    Maybe U$6B...maybe if you count everyone's private U$ deposits at the Arg Banks.
    Methinks another corralito is right around the corner.

    Jul 05th, 2014 - 02:05 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • The_TroLLing_Stone

    @36

    Well I'm glad to see the human side of the Falklander Islander, who is salivating at the prospect of Argentina having to pay some billionaire by taking money away from families whose children are going through the southern winter.

    That will certainly help the image.

    Jul 05th, 2014 - 02:05 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • yankeeboy

    38. Maybe The Kirchners could give back the estimated 10B EUROS they've stolen? To buy food and fuel for the starving freezing Rgs.
    Nah
    Doncha wonder where fat max got the u$ to buy a U$2mm compound? Doncha wonder?

    Jul 05th, 2014 - 02:13 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • reality check

    From the family business of course!

    The Argentines.

    Jul 05th, 2014 - 02:15 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • HansNiesund

    @29

    Thanks for the clarification, which is even more teenage than the original formulation.

    @31
    Indeed. Now would be an ideal time for Argenteena to go and sulk in its bedroom. Cruel, cruel world out there, that'll show 'em!

    Jul 05th, 2014 - 02:15 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Joe Bloggs

    Think and Nostrils make me laugh. They both seem to believe that if they say something enough on here the readers will think they believe what they're saying.

    At least Notrils believes we should be left in peace even though a lot of other things he sprouts are nonsense. Unlike Think who doesn't believe we should be left in peace and ALL of things he sprouts on here are nonsense.

    It's good to see those reserves are healthier than that nasty Engrish mag writes Think. All the more with which to pay on the 31st. Either your boy will pay or pay. It's TMBOA's choice.

    Tick tock

    How're your grand kids Think? Do they only see the back of your head these days or does your desk face out into the room?

    Meanwhile Nostrils is modifying his Google Alerts (American website) search criteria:
    US mass shootings (even little ones)
    US gun crime (even alleged crimes)
    US war crimes (dating back 200 years)
    UK war crimes (dating back 900 years and also into the future)
    UK economy (any source)
    UK bankers (including parking tickets)
    UK anything nasty (especially racial allegations)
    US anything nasty (US anything|
    EU financial crisis (only the bad news)
    etc.

    Go outside and enjoy the sunshine you deadbeats. I just got back from a beautiful walk on Cape Pembroke. Slightly icy, about 10 knots and the sun was shining.

    Tick tock.

    Jul 05th, 2014 - 02:18 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • yankeeboy

    40. Uneducated, unemployed , drug addict but he can buy a U$2MM in a third world country.
    Hmm
    Doesn't add up to me.
    In a civilized country someone would be investigating.

    Jul 05th, 2014 - 02:19 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • The_TroLLing_Stone

    Well obviously this has become an insult and racial/cultural humiliation fest by the Anglos here against the argentines.

    It's either ignore my questions on 'consequences' a la Hans Niesund, or just bring more insults a la yankeeboy, or copy and paste a la Joe Bloggs, or nonsense low-class gossip a la reality check.

    Believe I will not shed a tear the next time you people are hit by misfortune, or better yet, when those you have tormented around the world catch up to you.

    Jul 05th, 2014 - 02:29 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • yankeeboy

    Asking where an unemployed, uneducated drug addict gets the CASH to buy a U$2MM compound is an insult?
    How so?
    Splain me

    and what about all the staffed but VACANT Hotels CFK owns? She doesn't make that much money from her job to build them so how's that happening? She really doesn't make enough money to support her son and daughter's lavish lifestyles either. Hmmm odd that.

    yip yip

    Jul 05th, 2014 - 02:38 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ElaineB

    TTT it is YOUR government that is against you and the Argentine people. They are robbing you blind and their mismanagement of YOUR money that will cause people to be hungry and cold in Argentina. Stop looking for someone else to blame. Catch a bus to Buenos Aires and protest to your President that it is not fair.

    Jul 05th, 2014 - 02:42 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • owl61

    @44. On a different thread you promised to stop posting here. Please keep your promise.

    Jul 05th, 2014 - 02:52 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • reality check

    WTF you calling low class?

    Working class and proud of it.

    Now go slap some more cow shit on your mummies wall, your gonna need it when the gas runs out.

    Jul 05th, 2014 - 04:08 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • British_Kirchnerist

    Did the insurers in the Zong case also “reflect a teenage attitude that rules are to be broken”...

    Jul 05th, 2014 - 05:10 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Joe Bloggs

    I just heard on the radio that Argentina are winning 2-0 and was thinking that was slightly disappointing but then I thought about it. The prize money for the winners is USD35M. Does anyone know if that money could be considered an Argentine asset?

    GO ARGENTINA.

    Like Think says: politics and sport ARE entwined and the Argentina team certainly already believes that.

    Jul 05th, 2014 - 05:29 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Think

    (50) Joe Bloggs

    You just “heard on the radio” that Argentina was winning 2-0......?
    What radio would that be.....?
    FIRBS...?

    Jul 05th, 2014 - 06:58 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • golfcronie

    If Argentina win and they get a bonus I expect they will ask Messi for some accounting advice , as he seems to know where to put money and pay no tax. mind you I think most of the world class footballers do the same.

    Jul 05th, 2014 - 07:55 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Z-ville

    @44

    “Anglo” Again?

    I thought we were past that whole Anglo bit. Besides, as I have told you before, it is not the spoiled teenager behavior of your Whacky leadership that ultimately bothers me - it is what lurking underneath that truly scares me.

    Jul 05th, 2014 - 08:09 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Monkeymagic

    It is clear from Think and Nostrils that the author of this post has the Argentine psyche to a tee!

    Think believes the illegal actions of the elected Argentine government, their disrespect for the legal processes for which they signed up to, etc etc is comparable to the actions of a few unelected bankers, who, when the elected UK government discovered their illegal actions were punished to the letter of the law.

    Nostrils seems to believe that if the lender is more wealthy than the lendee, then it is in someway immoral for the lender to want his or her money back. Crikey, what a nut job. No wonder nobody wants to lend to these clowns with logic like that.

    Jul 05th, 2014 - 08:09 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Conqueror

    @44. I'll give you an answer to all your points. First, pay up. Second, WE DON'T CARE!! Children going through the southern winter? Toughen up, kids, this is the way it's going to be for years yet. Work on a new “burial” ritual. Way back, the Mongols used to take their dead up into the mountains and leave them to be eaten by animals and birds. Argieland could do something similar. Take the corpse outside and leave it reverently by the roadside. Maximo will be round in no time! Get the picture? Do you understand? You've spent the best part of 200 years thieving, or attempting to, lying, being corrupt, criminal and crooked. Being degenerate, deviant and immoral. Do you think being murdering, genocidal xenophobes helped or hindered your “development”? But all is not lost. There is a way back. Start by executing everyone in your “country” aged 30 or more. No exceptions. Using the normal worldwide meaning of the word “good”, what has argieland done in the last 250 years that was “good”? Now pay your debts and start again. When you start again, try very hard this time not to be a cretin. As a guide, whenever you are considering following your instincts, don't. Take a look at what “normal” people do. Then accept what a total failure your entire pointless life has been.

    Jul 05th, 2014 - 09:00 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Think

    Anglo turnip at (54) says...:
    ......................................................“Think believes the illegal actions of the elected Argentine government, their disrespect for the legal processes for which they signed up to, etc etc is comparable to the actions of a few unelected bankers, who, when the elected UK government discovered their illegal actions were punished to the letter of the law”

    Nope,... Think believes that...:
    ........................................................The illegal actions of the Argentine Military Junta in 1976 that, encouraged by Anglo assurances of “Integration with the Western World” derogated the Argentinean Constitution that clearly precluded ANY cession of sovereignity to ANY foreign instance for ANY reason...... and their disrespect for the legal processes is quite comparable to the actions of a few but incredibly influential unelected Engrish Banksters, who, when the elected UK government discovered their illegal actions continued partying as if nothing had happened...

    Jul 05th, 2014 - 09:21 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Joe Bloggs

    51

    BBC 5 Live

    Jul 05th, 2014 - 10:09 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Monkeymagic

    Lol, lol, lol

    And think does another “Luis Suarez” or the shaggy of Mercopress...“it wasn't me”

    LOL what a muppet.

    It was the Anglos who were to blame...or the Junta....or the four horsemen of the Apocolypse, hahahahahah...wasn't me.

    It was the Junta....wasn't Peron

    It was the Anglos...wasn't CFK

    It wasnt me....

    Oh think, you are hilarious....the embodiment Of toxic, lazy, corrupt and dishonest Argie described in the article above.

    Prove it again...it's hilarious

    Jul 05th, 2014 - 10:09 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Think

    (57) Joe Bloggs

    I know it's quite difficult for an Englishman to admit but.........
    Could it be that you heard wrong?

    Jul 05th, 2014 - 11:12 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Joe Bloggs

    Just a typo old man. Unlike your dribble on here today. That nasty Engrish article really hit the spot by the looks. Didn't it!

    Get the Commander to go and sort them out. Did his wife go to Waitrose in the Disco today? You truly are a fucking deadbeat. Bahahahahahaha!!!

    You haven't posted any share prices for a while old man. Why not?

    Chuckle chuckle

    Jul 05th, 2014 - 11:37 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Lord Ton

    Thanks Think - that photo has gone to my desk top . If life gets too good I'll look at it and remember what I'm missing :-)

    I wonder what mango wine's like :-)

    Jul 05th, 2014 - 11:40 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • golfcronie

    @61
    What's the walking stick in the photo go to do with anything, or is it a shafting stick, or a stick to control the Argies.

    Jul 05th, 2014 - 11:54 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Joe Bloggs

    I wondered why Nostrils accused me of copy and pasting my post even though I typed all of it myself. Now I've just noticed that my entire post seems to have been applied twice (36 and 42). How could that happen? It wasn't me Gov; honest!

    Jul 06th, 2014 - 12:57 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • CabezaDura2

    Stefan Molyneux about Che Guevara....Off topic but not entirely. Pure gold. I wish people in Argentina and the world knew the truth about the monster, rapist and executioner that he really was. I wonder if many of our usual posters and expat socialists KKs had the same kind of things Stefan mentions in common with Che in their youth and militancy before they left Latam for their in hiding in PC countries like Canada, Scandinavia and the UK during the 60s and 70s

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1eMLk1nQh5o

    Jul 06th, 2014 - 01:59 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • The_TroLLing_Stone

    The Economist is the Arjen Robben of international finance:

    They have been moaning, crying, and diving about Argentina every waking moment. They need to grow up.

    Jul 06th, 2014 - 05:43 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • gordo1

    @ 65 The_TroLLing_Stone

    Another bleat of arrogance! Why cannot Argentina and many of its citizens just recognise that their country is is not the paragon of virtue that they claim?

    Jul 06th, 2014 - 07:07 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • golfcronie

    If you didn't keep popping your head above the parapet they would not be have a pop at you. Anyway the truth hurts doesn't it? Who was it that had the biggest default in history, remind me.

    Jul 06th, 2014 - 07:08 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • reality check

    “they need to grow up.”

    Is it me? Or does anyone else see the comedy in that statement?

    Jul 06th, 2014 - 10:53 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Room101

    Bit of a daft mix here; Sixth-Form journalism and cowboy economics speak. Football and national debts...

    Can someone re-write this without confusing the two?

    Jul 06th, 2014 - 11:18 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • yankeeboy

    Clarin reported yesterday that 70% of BCRA “reserves” are Arg Treasury Notes.
    The reserves are on a death spiral since the trade is now negative and they've been papering it over.

    They pumped more pesos into the system in June than all rest of 2014.

    Fun fun fun
    Rut Ro
    brr

    Jul 06th, 2014 - 11:31 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ilsen

    Every day is another day closer to default day.

    Maybe the Argentine Government should 'grow up'.

    Jul 06th, 2014 - 12:49 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ynsere

    I don't think the comparison is entirely correct. Suárez, is defined by The Economist as “gifted but pychologically flawed”.
    So far I agree.
    Does anyone know of any “gifted” Argentine politician, administrator or economist, whether psychologically flawed or not?

    Jul 06th, 2014 - 01:00 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • yankeeboy

    “We are going to listen to the mediator and we want to know if there is the possibility of a genuine negotiation or if the vultures expect the ruling to be carried out as it was dictated by Griesa,” an Economy Ministry source said

    Wannabe Elvis doesn't understand what a judgement is or that he lost.

    Jul 06th, 2014 - 01:57 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • The_TroLLing_Stone

    @66

    Simple: we area certainly not going to just sit and take seriously lectures in paragons of virtue from racially Anglo nations! We are going to laugh our heads off and comment to each other in Spanish about your amazing dearth of education and understanding of your “anglo virtues” history around the globe.

    Jul 06th, 2014 - 02:07 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • yankeeboy

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/worldcup2014/article-2681819/Alejandro-Sabella-shows-sympathy-Neymars-injury-Argentina-fans-celebrate-spinal-chord-skeleton-quarter-final-win-against-Belgium.html

    Way to keep it classy Rgs! Way to keep it classy!

    Jul 06th, 2014 - 02:09 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • gordo1

    @ 74 Now your personal inferiority complex is showing us just what an enormous chip you have on your shoulder! I suspect you are a professional “payaso” when you are not trolling in these parts.

    Jul 06th, 2014 - 02:28 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ilsen

    @74
    Carry on laughing when your momma sends you out looking for firewood this winter. Carry on laughing when your Internet gets switched off.

    Only a few weeks to Default Day. Should have paid your bills on time. Now the nasty man is going to take your toys away.

    Tick tock, tick tock...

    Jul 06th, 2014 - 02:43 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • MagnusMaster

    @73 what Kicillof is looking is a guarantee from Griesa that the RUFO clause won't be triggered if we pay the holdouts. Otherwise it is most likely we won't pay. I think the gov't would rather default on the current debt than pay but face more lawsuits and risk the debt to balloon further.

    Jul 06th, 2014 - 02:44 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • The_TroLLing_Stone

    OUCH! Something I said hurt. Must be because it touched the a truth nerve.

    Jul 06th, 2014 - 02:46 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • CabezaDura2

    78.
    I think the sentance is to pay inmediately, as far as my logic goes that the RUFO clause and the rest of the holdouts are of Griesa's problem. But I did read in iECO that is what they might be getting.

    “Pero cabría la posibilidad de que el juez disponga que el pago a los holdouts se realice en enero de 2015, después de que venza la cláusula RUFO, que obliga a darle a todos los bonistas las mismas condiciones si es el que Gobierno, por su cuenta, dispone una mejora para algunos de ellos.”

    However I think that Singer wants to be paid inmediately

    Jul 06th, 2014 - 02:55 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • yankeeboy

    78. Griesa is not in a position to rule on that. Do they have any idea how the law works here? They should ask their attornies that question if they're worried about it.
    To me they're again trying to game the system. We don't like that and if it ends up in court they'll lose.

    Jul 06th, 2014 - 02:56 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • CabezaDura2

    80 *ARE NOT of Griesa's problem

    Jul 06th, 2014 - 02:57 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Porto Margaret

    #79

    No TTS, it was what ilsen posted on this topic that made you go, OUCH!

    http://en.mercopress.com/2014/07/05/moody-s-confirms-peru-as-one-of-south-america-s-strongest-economy

    It still stings, doesn't it?

    Jul 06th, 2014 - 03:02 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • owl61

    Resolution of this pending litigation with only about 10% of the holdouts will not be easy without triggering the RUFO clause thereby giving rights to the 92% substitute bondholders.
    Payment of a portion of a stipulated “judgment” (not an offer), for the amount required by application of the res judicata pari passu holding (100% of all principle, interest and fees = about $1.5B) with a stay of enforcement for the balance might avoid now triggering the RUFO clause. Couple that with an agreement to accept less than the full judgment if an agreed amount is paid upon expiration of the RUFO clause applicability and the deadbeats might be able to avoid a default of the 92% of bonds....if they pay them, that is.

    Additionally, there might be some dialogue with the other similarly situated holdouts who are not participating in the NML/Elliot suit (another $13B) aimed at offering a settlement post RUFO expiration (Dec 2014)

    Jul 06th, 2014 - 03:14 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Joe Bloggs

    79 Nostrils

    Bahahahaha! Hurting us? Bahahahahahhaha!

    See? This is what I meant yesterday. You think that if you keep saying this stuff we might think you believe it. PMSL!!

    As for your tripe yesterday about starving families going into winter. Don't make us laugh. Your country got you into this mess and it thought it could get away with it. Guess what! It isn't going to. Look at some of the stuff you've said yourself. I can remember you boasting that your country borrowed all this money and wasn't going to pay it back. Well, guess what. You're going to pay it back or default and either way the end result will be that YOUR government has caused this mess. So when families do start to starve you'd better hope they realise that it is your government's fault, rather than the big bad West,, otherwise they may just elect more of the same next year.

    Jul 06th, 2014 - 04:24 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Leiard

    “The Battle of Argentina against vulture funds is of all mankind”

    http://www.telam.com.ar/notas/201407/70067-embajadores-latinoamerica-onu-fondos-buitre.html

    Jul 06th, 2014 - 04:34 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Conqueror

    @79. Just a simple question. Do you understand the English command “Launch”?

    Jul 06th, 2014 - 04:35 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ElaineB

    But I thought the Argentine government told us that the substitute bondholders, the 92%, were more than happy with their generous settlement. So, surely they will not take advantage of the RUFO clause. Unless CFK was not being entirely honest……..

    Jul 06th, 2014 - 04:49 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • yankeeboy

    It would have to been some seriously crafty ( sneaky, scammy) contract to avoid both coming to an agreement with Singer by eom July and avoiding RUFO.
    No matter how its crafted I believe they'll end up in court and eventually paying all holders equally.

    Jul 06th, 2014 - 05:06 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • CabezaDura2

    The only reason why the gov't can and will want to default is because the resession and crisis is inevitable in any case.

    Default will give the Ks the arguments they need to find the culmination of their epic story and tales; the greedy Yankee capitalist comes in at last moment and destroys all that we had done in the last 12 years.

    After all only they have access to the real numbers of the country and know where it is heading. So if the country is tits up anyway they might as well use the default as a exit strategy..... I dont think it will work out for them.

    We shall see what their next move is.

    Jul 06th, 2014 - 05:30 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • golfcronie

    @90
    And do you think that the population are that gullible to accept what you implying in your post above?

    Jul 06th, 2014 - 05:57 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • yankeeboy

    90. I'd be surprised if they pay. I don't think they have any cash to pay. I don't think they understand that embarrassing and important assets will be seized and there won't be anything they can do about it. It would be very hard to buy or sell anything with the U$ because it all flows through here one way or the other.
    If I were the winners I'd immediatly go after the BCRA funds at BIS, the YPF shares, ENARSA funds wherever they can be found.
    Shut down the ability to export and import fuel and it won't be long before they come back to the table to seriously negotiate.
    All the whining and carrying on won't do anything.
    Singer has the law on his side.
    And any thinking person wants the law to be obeyed and respected and consequences be darned.
    If a few people have to suffer to get them to the table so be it. The Ks caused this mess.

    Jul 06th, 2014 - 06:00 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • CabezaDura2

    91.
    No, because at the end of a day a core part of Kirchnerist vote that comes from metropolitan BsAs and the Nothern feudal provinces works by wellfare checks instead of ideology. The poor only care about football, cumbia villera and the planes. That is the specific power contract of Peronism. If the Ks can no longer provide for them they (in form of their local municipal peronist chieftains) will look for someone else.
    Its more of the mid class, commerce employees and public sector employees like teachers, town hall staff and so on that form ideological backbone of Kirchnerism. Those may be loyal but you will not win an election in 2019 with them by themselves.

    Jul 06th, 2014 - 06:28 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ElaineB

    CFK is still sick. Too sick to attend the official Independence Day rally. I wonder why? It's not laryngitis, that is for sure.

    We should call her Sick Note.

    Jul 06th, 2014 - 06:34 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • CabezaDura2

    94.
    She clearly was sick by “miracle” in order to avoid delagating the presindency to VP Boudou while she was off in Paraguay.

    I think its beacuse on wednesday ArgenFiFa finally starts to play the World cup and this time the opponent can get Arg out for real... I dont think it will be wise to make a patriotic speech and get the national team knocked out the same day.

    Jul 06th, 2014 - 06:47 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ElaineB

    @95 I hadn't made that connection.

    She was supposed to be making her speech in Tucuman but reading you earlier post, she probably should avoid the northern provinces. I remember when I was in Salta the stories of their suffering during the last default were extreme.

    Jul 06th, 2014 - 06:57 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • MagnusMaster

    @81 the concept of law is fundamentally alien to them, their lawyers basically said: just default.
    @91 there is a sucker born every minute...

    Jul 06th, 2014 - 09:11 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • yankeeboy

    I am sure their American attorneys have been very clear what they need to do whether they listen or not is up to them.
    From what I hear the Int'l ( IDB WB IMF) banks are expecting them to default.

    Jul 06th, 2014 - 10:22 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • hurricane

    Default is immanent. Why? Out gunned and no doe. Socialism is a cancer that always kills the host. Argentina is on life support. The uninformed dead.

    Jul 06th, 2014 - 11:10 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Anglotino

    It amazes me the brinkmanship the Argentine government partakes in.

    Mind you, people like Think fall for it as a sign of strength. Which shows that it is predominately for domestic consumption.

    But what it is doing to business confidence is horrendous. Who in their right mind would invest or spend in this climate?

    This taking it the very edge of the precipice will only deepen the recession. I expect growth and investment will tumble to create a self-perpetuating cycle.

    Kirchnerism's continually neediness for support and praise from as many multinational fora as possible has never generated any concrete results for the Argentine people.

    Kirchnerism's biggest selling point was that it helped Argentina recover from default. But now that they are on the brink of it again, there's no more tricks - the empress has no clothes.

    Jul 06th, 2014 - 11:52 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Klingon

    Whether you like him or not ( I personally do not) Kilichoff is trying his hardest to keep Argentina afloat and going ahead. I do believe he is a patriot how ever misguided he maybe. The problem is he has this mad bitch screaming at him 24/7 to cover all her Fu** up's and theft.
    The guy is in tough position with limited options and the real truth may not be exposed for many years to come.
    Meanwhile Singers greed continues to destroy millions of people while that shit bag produces nothing of use,

    Jul 06th, 2014 - 11:58 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Joe Bloggs

    101 Kli

    Jul 07th, 2014 - 12:10 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • yankeeboy

    101. Singer creates a bond marketplace. What if nobody wanted to buy deadbeat country's bonds.
    Thank goodness for you he does want to take the risk.

    Jul 07th, 2014 - 12:19 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • redp0ll

    @101 Klingon. Yes I have changed my opinion on this guy and I think you may well be right in your analysis.

    Jul 07th, 2014 - 12:53 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • bushpilot

    @101

    Singer makes countries think twice before borrowing money. That is a huge service.

    The regular people of Argentina might not be in such a predicament right now if your country didn't borrow money they weren't going to use properly anyway.

    Jul 07th, 2014 - 02:53 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • The_TroLLing_Stone

    I find it hilarious that the pro-crony capitalists in this forum really actually believe that once Argentina defaults and this supposed economic calamity unfolds, people are just going to rush out and demand immediate job liberalization, free-trade with everyone no barriers, no price controls at all and abolition of minimum wage, privatization of everything from roads to healthcare to retirement, and a flat housing tax. In other words, crony capitalism a la EUialand and NorthAmoland where the rich get all the benefits and the middle class and poor are slaves and have no protections.

    They honestly believe Argentines will just beg for neo-liberalism.

    hahahahahahahahahaa.............

    Jul 07th, 2014 - 02:58 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • bushpilot

    If things get rough for the Argentine masses, what do you think they will be clamoring for from their Argentine government?

    I think you are right, they won't be clamoring for less socialist handouts.

    Jul 07th, 2014 - 03:13 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • The_TroLLing_Stone

    @107

    I don't think things will be remotely as bad as 2001, simply because the economy has learned to operate outside the world financial system, we are not connected to it, certainly not like in 2001 when we are completely at it's mercy. Also we have a floating currency unlike 2001 and that cushions any shock. Finally in 2001 commodity prices were unusually low (at a 20 year low actually), not the case now.

    But IF it happened, a la 2001, then I think democracy falls and you will have a fascist dictatorship that will fight it out with communist guerrillas that prop-up. I think you will see foreigners and anything international targeted and attacked, Argentina will resume nuclear bomb programs, and will likely withdraw from the International criminal court. It will get into constant border conflicts with other South American nations, but will give the Falklands a wide birth.

    Jul 07th, 2014 - 03:26 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • CabezaDura2

    106.
    Kim Jong Toby

    Kirchnerism is the closest thing you will get to living your isolationist fantasy. This time there is nothing left to go to but austerity. More tax?? maybe but the laffers curve has already been clearly overtaken under kirchnerism.

    Real capitalist and free countries are in the far east like South Korea, Taiwan, Singapour and Japan. I already explaind to you that EU US ANZAC countries are far more socialists models.

    They peronist model and mentality will not be easy to erase but the hard fact is that there is no more wealth, no more stocks and productive capital left to consume. There will be eventually no more wealth to give away to the poor and the state.

    Jul 07th, 2014 - 03:26 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • The_TroLLing_Stone

    @109

    Ok, but I have always said there are no more resources in Argentina, no more wealth.

    You people have a knack for disagreeing with me only to agree with me at a later date.

    Jul 07th, 2014 - 03:36 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • CabezaDura2

    How is Comando Sabino Navarro doing?? Have they taken you in??

    Jul 07th, 2014 - 03:43 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • The_TroLLing_Stone

    Thank you for the reminder with the Comando thing.

    I want you all to understand how I feel when I attempt to have intelligent debate with the rest of you.

    I'm the reporter, the rest of you here are the “chinaman” as Hans Niesund calls them:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VhDTQeeaStc

    Jul 07th, 2014 - 03:55 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Troy Tempest

    110 Nostrils

    “ok, but I have always said there are no more resources in Argentina, no more wealth.”

    You still have resources that you haven't ruined, but no wealth to develop what you have left.

    Your fault, with your attitude, that nobody will LEND you any more money.

    But then, we don't care about the plight of CFK and Peronists.
    It is tragic what your people will go through.

    Jul 07th, 2014 - 04:26 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • The_TroLLing_Stone

    And what do you want me to do? Give you a cookie for all that?

    Jul 07th, 2014 - 04:52 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Troy Tempest

    You could start by taking personal responsibility.
    Get a job.
    Help your mother.

    then, open your ears
    and close your mouth.

    Jul 07th, 2014 - 05:15 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • The_TroLLing_Stone

    Don't worry about my personal situation.

    I'm not rich but I won't starve.

    Jul 07th, 2014 - 05:22 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Troy Tempest

    but your mother will continue to work to feed you,
    for pesos that buy less and less.

    Until she loses her job, and takes in other peoples washing, or begs for the job of a servant.

    Meanwhile her lazy arrogant son sits on his fat bum, waiting to lose his Internet, waiting for his mother to lose their home.

    That's your “personal situation” for the next several miserable years.

    Thanks Peronists !! Thanks Victory Party!! Thanks CFK !!

    Jul 07th, 2014 - 06:00 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • yankeeboy

    Toby, This next crisis, whether you default or not I believe you'll have a balance of payments problem will be much much worse than 2001. The country is much more imbalanced than it was then. There are no more hard assets (U$) to steal to pump up the consumer and pay for imports. Your country needs food (25% is imported), raw mfg goods, fuel. It can not function without these items. The trade balance swung the opposite way early last year and is now negative or will soon be negative.
    No Int'l banks will lend (USA will continue to block) , if you default (likely) no bonds can be issued (Fed or Prov) and Holdouts will Seize Assets legally.
    You can't not simply devalue 3/1 like you did in 2001 and pump the economy. Its worn out, done, no more room. I think they'll try though. I think another devaluation is right around the corner. Then you'll go into hyperinflation.
    Look to Caracas, CFK is using the same terrible playbook. She doesn't know any better.
    You think I was kidding when I told you to hoard Sugar. I wasn't.

    Jul 07th, 2014 - 11:48 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Troy Tempest

    116 Nostrils

    “Don't worry about my personal situation.

    I'm not rich but I won't starve.”

    That's what the Chinese peasants thought, living in the Peoples Utopia of Communist China, under Mao.

    Despite their “bountiful” harvests, the government boasted of, millions starved !

    Two reasons, with single-crop centralised farming, like your soy production, they lacked the fuel, trucks, or other infrastructure to distribute it properly, and their beloved leader, sent much of the food out of the country to Russia, in lieu of money owed, or to buy military technology or war materiel.

    Do you see any parallels with Argentina there?

    Jul 07th, 2014 - 01:04 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • CabezaDura2

    119. Kinda...

    Argentinas farming sector property is private, but 80% of profits are socialized. In most cases you end up paying taxes with your own capital.

    Ohhh boy if China starts defaulting on purchases and slowing down on its imports Argentina will face a nightmare scenario. No question about it.

    Jul 07th, 2014 - 01:13 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ChrisR

    @ 116 The_TroLLing_Stone
    “I'm not rich but I won't starve.”

    Taking this statement at face value would suggest to me that you will be an ideal target for those of your compatriots who will have nothing: because YOU (or your mom) will have SOMETHING.

    So stand by to be robbed and possibly murdered when the real crisis comes, and it is coming!

    Still, I will look on the bright side for me: the computer you use will be nicked as well, so no more stupid, juvenile, comments from you!

    Jul 07th, 2014 - 01:13 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • yankeeboy

    I wonder where fuel will be directed if Singer starts seizing imports? The freezing population or business? You can't farm, transport, mfg without fuel.
    Arg also imports 25% of their food supply.
    25% less is starvation level.

    Also the currency imbalance is causing large food mfg (like chicken farming, dairy, baking and frigos) to go bankrupt. Nobody does this for free and certainly not at a loss for long. I think most have reached their limits.

    So I'm not so sure about Toby not starving. Lots of people starved in 2001 especially in the outer provinces.
    Plus you can't just flip a switch and start growing something. It takes a few years to adjust.
    It will be interesting to watch the next couple of months.

    Jul 07th, 2014 - 01:21 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • CabezaDura2

    122.
    I think the farmers will end up in fiscal rebellion and black markets and other forms of basic trade like barter clubs will flourish.
    When I mentioned that the government's revenues have gone down is because they seem to have crossed the Laffer's curve... Each increase in tax pressure will translate in less revenue by the state because people will either go to the black markets or will simply stop producing and working.

    Jul 07th, 2014 - 01:37 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • yankeeboy

    http://www.ambito.com/diario/noticia.asp?id=748406

    I think a repeat of 1989 is fast approaching.

    When you have little money coming in and lots going out there's only so much you can do if you can't get loans.
    Who do you pay, fuel, car parts or food?
    Its all going to be PrePaid in the very near future as no supplier will trust being paid. There are some importers having to wait 6 mos now!
    They will not ship until they get the wire.

    The vortex is speeding up.

    Jul 07th, 2014 - 02:01 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • CabezaDura2

    Its very complicated as they have almost no options left, they will have to start reducing the size of the state and sell all the crap they have like Aerolineas, Telam and Ar-sat... Formosa can be sold back to Paraguay, I dont know..
    I think the best thing the next government can do is simply use its dollars for those importers of machinery, equipment, fertilizers and seed.

    Im not sure if that 25 % of food imports is premium stuff or not.

    I think a lot of spare parts for cars will come about because the car market in the last years has been subsidised and Im assuming that people will start getting rid of them and dumping the second hand market.

    The subsidies in BA in transport, water, electrics and heating should go too. Let them go in bicycle, bikes and carpool to work.

    I dont trust state run YPF to be honest I actually would privatize it again if it was possible and spare paying Repsol and then liberalize the whole o/g markets so they get to compete as much as possible, the girl that is Kicillof mate that has just being appointed in replacement of Daniel Cameron as energy minister fancies a huge state monopoly like Gazprom or Sinopec and if they want it to be profitable they will just let the price go up rather than administering properly YPF. YPF in the late 1980s was a money eater and I dont see any reason why under Galluccio and the Campora it will be any different. Let the provinces set their own deals with international companies too.

    Jul 07th, 2014 - 03:18 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ElaineB

    I suspect the government will seize crops from the farmers. Didn't they help themselves to the railways? Would that be so they can move stuff around without the help of the teamsters?

    The very real problem is that Argentines are inclined to break rules and live outside the law. It could get ugly.

    I remember the first time I visited Mendoza and noticed the houses with wire-topped fences, wolf-sized dogs and complex security. When I asked about it I was told it was because of the last default and the increased crime at that time. I guess they are already prepared.

    Jul 07th, 2014 - 04:05 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • CabezaDura2

    Right love, and who would work the land in the next campaign ??

    Jul 07th, 2014 - 04:13 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • yankeeboy

    126. There was a house not too far from me that had 12 foot walls and guard towers on every corner! And this was in close-in Znorte!
    Granted I never saw anyone in there but they must have been there for a reason.

    Jul 07th, 2014 - 04:59 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ElaineB

    @127 I agree it would be a mistake but……

    @128 I didn't notice it as much in BsAs as I lived in Palermo. The apartment blocks all had security but I noticed it more in Mendoza. The shops, even hairdressers and agencies, would have locked doors to be buzzed in. I made some enquiries and people reluctantly admitted the crime problems.

    Jul 07th, 2014 - 05:14 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • CabezaDura2

    129. What we call “campaign” in Argentina or in spanish is the whole crop cycle from sowing to harvesting. I didn't realize you dont have that word in English to refer to the same thing. I wasn't referring to presidential campaign each 4 years, but a year to year basis.

    So anyway they may confiscate grain once, but the next year they are out of income at all. Of each 3 truck loads of soy that go to port, its one that goes to pay the gov'ts export tax only. Then you have to consider all the rest of agro and common taxes. I think they cant stretch it more than the very good piece of the pie they are already taking. If they go as far the Ks or the next gov't as to resorting to confiscating grain you will have the whole interior of the country in the highways and roads like in 2008 and a fiscal rebellion.

    Jul 07th, 2014 - 06:07 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • MagnusMaster

    Grain confiscation would be suicidal, a corralito is more likely. But the state will do whatever it takes to ensure its survival and prevent anarchy, even if it means breaking its own laws.

    Jul 07th, 2014 - 06:27 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • redp0ll

    CD Soya prospects are not good here, down about 20-25% at Nueva Palmira from the highs of last year. Also the USA have increased their área 11% and look set for a bumper harvest. The main buyer is China and they can read the production forecasts as well as anybody else and so can manipulate the Price at will.
    Added to which production costs for agricultura have risen astronomically, so much so that almost all rice farmers are in the red.
    The wheat área has been seriously reduced as it couldnt be planted on time because of the wet weather and the alternative is soya thus further increasing supply on offer.

    Jul 07th, 2014 - 06:38 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ChrisR

    @ 131 MagnusMaster
    “But the state will do whatever it takes to ensure its survival and prevent anarchy, even if it means breaking its own laws.”

    So you think it doesn’t break the law at the moment?

    Ha, ha, ha. Yeah, right.

    Jul 07th, 2014 - 06:38 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • CaptainSilver

    Mendoza! When I rode through there on my touring bike on the way south we were given a police escort because they said we would be attacked, robbed, our bikes stolen and probably be stabbed to eliminate our testimony! Grilles on windows, razor wire everywhere, big heaps of trash on the corners, cartoneros earning a crust during darkness. Argentina has got a HUUUGE crime and security problem in the big cities and every Villa. The police are generally pretty useless., except on the northern outskirts of Mendoza.

    Jul 07th, 2014 - 07:05 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • CabezaDura2

    132. Arg producers are retaining soja bean as much as they can for the moment.
    Already land rents here are going down. We have got herbicides going over top and ever more resistant weeds.

    I dont know aout Uruguay but we tend to look at things year to year here in Argentina when it comes to agriculture, but it is likely that the best years are over. World prices will perhaps stagnant for a couple of years more and then start falling by the end of this decade.

    Keeping in mind that China defaulted on Brazilian soy earlier this year.
    At least you guys havent messed up your beef and dairy markets

    Jul 07th, 2014 - 07:59 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • yankeeboy

    131. Argentina is a lawless society. The gov't does whatever it wants with impunity. It is one of the main reasons your country has failed.

    I guess the meeting didn't go well. Wannabe Elvis is probably just about cried out by now so I'm sure there will be some news coming out shortly. Unless it went really bad and there's no way to spin it.

    Jul 07th, 2014 - 08:03 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ElaineB

    From the Buenos Aires Herald

    Elliott Management portfolio manager Jay Newman has revealed that the hedge fund would be willing to give the Argentine government more time to negotiate following the nation's reverse in the US Supreme Court, while criticising Economy minister Axel Kicillof for not meeting with the so-called 'vulture funds'.

    “Our firm could be persuaded to give Argentina more time if the government took concrete and serious steps to meet its obligations,” Newman explained in a column published today by the Financial Times.

    “But the silence from Argentina is deafening. It does not appear serious about reaching a timely resolution of its debts.”

    Kicillof, who today met with Daniel Pollack, the lawyer appointed by judge Thomas Griesa to mediate in the case between Argentina and the holdouts, was criticised by the Elliott representative for his actions in refusing to talk directly with those bondholders.

    “Two weeks ago [Kicillof] flew to New York to give an inflammatory speech at the UN in which he blamed bondholders and the US legal system for his country's supposed inability to settle debts owed to thousands of investors,” Newman fired.

    “Our offices are a 10 minute drive from UN headquarters, yet Mr Kicillof flew home without even talking to us.”

    The executive continued by reiterating that Elliott and other 'vulture funds' would accept payment in the form of bonds and “other financial instruments,” holding up the example of the Repsol and Paris Club deals as models for a settlement. But he added that the government would have to enter talks if they wanted to strike a deal.

    “Defiant speeches have not helped the country move on from the 2001 default. A single honest discussion could relegate it to the past,” Newman concluded.

    Jul 07th, 2014 - 08:33 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ilsen

    “A single honest discussion”.

    Wil we ever see this from Kiristina's gang of thieves? The same people that issue false passports as a publicity stunt, or risk the own football team being fined in order to make a political statement?

    They can not be trusted.

    Jul 07th, 2014 - 08:46 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Z-ville

    @137

    “But the silence from Argentina is deafening.”

    Either the Whacky leadership is silently trying to work out some magic deal with the Chinese or similar behind the curtains, or they truly are nothing more than petulant teenagers pretending to do grown-up stuff...

    Jul 08th, 2014 - 02:30 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • yankeeboy

    139. There's no deal coming from China. Even China won't move forward on the projects they've been awarded!
    Arg needs to stop whining, take responsibility and deal with this situation like and adult.
    At this point I think there's no path that doesn't lead to default no matter what they do.
    Whether its now or later in the year.
    They are short $170B pesos in budget and U$6B+ in external payments before they pay something to the holdouts.

    Jul 08th, 2014 - 12:43 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • MagnusMaster

    @140 and what would be dealing the situation like an adult? Another default isn't going to help...

    Jul 09th, 2014 - 12:39 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • yankeeboy

    They should concede defeat, negotiate immediate payments with all the holdouts and move on.
    That's the sensible solution
    At this point I can't figure out what their game plan is. I doubt they have one.
    The judge has given a lot of indicators that the judgement stands as written. I don't see him backtracking on that after 3 years of a stay.

    Jul 11th, 2014 - 12:53 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • MagnusMaster

    @142 you know they don´t have enough cash... unless you mean bonds, but that would be kicking the can down the road again.
    Their game plan is to try to avoid triggering RUFO. It´s not clear if they will default or not after Griesa says no, they will probably just flip a coin to decide...

    Jul 11th, 2014 - 04:04 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • yankeeboy

    The judgement says cash, if they pay with bonds or negotiate a reduced rate I would have to assume that would be considered voluntary.
    I don't think they can weasel out of the RUFO clause and this is why they won't get the stay.

    Jul 11th, 2014 - 06:47 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • MagnusMaster

    @144 Then a default is almost guaranteed. There is no way anyone in Argentina would pay all the 100 billion debt... not in a million years.

    Jul 12th, 2014 - 08:50 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ilsen

    Squealers gotta pay up.
    clock is ticking. .....

    Jul 12th, 2014 - 09:32 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • MagnusMaster

    If we had enough cash maybe we could but if we paid Singer in cash we wouldn't have any reserves left. I don't know how long it could take the other holdouts to sue but I doubt we could get another 6-9 billion dollars in that time. Not without confiscating private property at least. And if there is something capitalists hate more than defaulting, it's stealing.

    Jul 12th, 2014 - 10:56 pm - Link - Report abuse 0

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