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Ten hectic days await Argentina, and a possible second default in 12 years

Monday, July 21st 2014 - 07:38 UTC
Full article 61 comments

Ten hectic days ahead for Argentina since come 30 July and no agreement has been reached at the New York court of Federal Judge Thomas Griesa, (full payment plus accrued interests to holdout speculative funds) the country would be forced to a second default in twelve years with all the political consequences for Cristina Fernandez and Mercosur. Read full article

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  • Pete Bog

    “Likewise President Cristina Fernandez has refused point blank to talk, dialogue or sit next to the holdout hedge funds”

    Whilst insisting dialogue must take place between Argentina and the UK over the Falkland Islands.

    Practice what you preach.

    Jul 21st, 2014 - 08:28 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Britworker

    They only want to talk to people who are going to tell them what they want to hear

    Jul 21st, 2014 - 09:09 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Skåre-Vuggevise

    In the words of Madame Déficit herself, Marie Antoinette, who single-handedly ruined France's finances: “Let them eat cake”.

    Let the Argentinian economy default and cement the country's status as a pariah nation. There is no point in further delaying the inevitable.

    No-one trusts Argentina and no-one is going to come to their aid, so why pretend that there is hope where there is none?

    Do I feel sorry for Argentina? Of course not .. they continue to vote for these profligate cretins to run their country for them, so they have made their own bed.

    Jul 21st, 2014 - 09:14 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Anbar

    hang on... whats all this article talk about Argentina not having the funds to pay...? I distinctly remember Think and his malvonista chums saying over and over (and over) that Argentina had plenty of cash to pay this off if they wanted to....

    comes form their fantastically strong economy iirc...

    I'm sure the chinese or brazilians would lend them the money anywa....

    oh.

    Jul 21st, 2014 - 10:08 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • The Voice

    @4 But… as you are already aware Think and the Malvinistas are all morons?

    Jul 21st, 2014 - 11:25 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • yankeeboy

    I don't see any reason for NML to grant a stay. A default has no bearing on the ruling. They're still owed the money regardless of what Argentina does.

    The CA case will allow NML to attach YPF and Chevron Argentina assets. Bye bye all VM investments until this is sorted.
    I won't be surprised if they also get the ability to attach BCRA and Enarsa assets.

    Whether they default or not they have a cash crunch and devaluation right around the corner. That's what will bring great suffering to the Argentinians, especially the poor and middle class.

    Choices are, do you import car parts ( or any input products) so people can work? Medicine and Food so they can live? Fuel so they can mfg or have heat?
    These are serious choices that only countries with civil unrest, war or crazy dictators have to make.
    How it got this far is beyond a normal person's thinking.

    Jul 21st, 2014 - 12:30 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • MagnusMaster

    Default already confirmed:
    http://www.minutouno.com/notas/330385-no-se-pagara-el-fallo-griesa-2015

    The gov´t will not pay a single cent to the holdouts until 2015, regardless of what Griesa decides.

    Jul 21st, 2014 - 01:30 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Briton

    And all because the plastic deluded doll was more interested in destroying the Falkland's and insulting the British and the world [except her friends lol ]
    rather than concentrating on running her own country, and leaving it to rot,

    except for her private bank balance, obviously...

    Jul 21st, 2014 - 01:38 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • The Voice

    I see one of the employees of Mercopress is accessing users accounts again....
    I don't think the host godaddy.com would appreciate this invasion of privacy of users....it's not exactly cricket....
    I notice they have a complaints email address.....
    I am sure they would be aware that there has been no external hacking of their sites....ergo....it must be internal...
    Is this the kind of image Mercopress likes to project....?

    Jul 21st, 2014 - 02:03 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Heisenbergcontext

    I wonder if anyone, within or without Argentina, knows just how much the country actually owes.

    Jul 21st, 2014 - 02:05 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Idlehands

    9 The Voice (#)

    What are you moaning about? What are you alleging has happened?

    Jul 21st, 2014 - 02:30 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Brit Bob

    Countdown to the 30th of July. Fingers crossed...

    Jul 21st, 2014 - 02:32 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • The Voice

    11
    It's fairly obvious that the comment @5 is not mine...and this is not the first time...
    There will also be a trail leading right back to their desk...

    Jul 21st, 2014 - 02:38 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Idlehands

    While it's pretty clear somebody is out to irritate you I can't see the MP staff being bothered to do it.

    First question I'd ask myself is does anyone I know also know that I post on MP as “The Voice” ?

    Jul 21st, 2014 - 02:54 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • 鼻孔

    Back in old day, this news happening should be for Argentina bad.

    Today, world multipolar. Argentina default, only matter in USA. Argentina get money CHina, Russia, Brazil, India, Venezuela, Indonesia. Maybe Israel help to.

    Europe and USA smalls. No matter.

    Jul 21st, 2014 - 02:55 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Captain Poppy

    #15

    Confucius say:

    fake eye slanty chica sucky sucky on real eye slanty for money only get his leche.

    Tobi you are beyond hopeless you poor suffering and begging hijo de puta.

    Three methods we may learn wisdom:

    1-first by reflection which is the noblest;
    2-Imitation, which is the easiest (Chinese)
    3-Experience, which is the bitterest

    ~Confucius

    You are stuck in # 3 yet you never seem to learn. You just keep scratching your ass.

    man scratch who his ass, often smelly fingers he has.

    Jul 21st, 2014 - 03:16 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ilsen

    Get money from Venezuela??????

    Hahaha! Bahahaha!

    They haven't got any!

    Go on, tell me another joke you fool!
    haha!

    Jul 21st, 2014 - 03:42 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • 鼻孔

    Get yesterday money Venezuela. Argentina always lucky, find country with money when they default.

    Jul 21st, 2014 - 03:43 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Captain Poppy

    Seems they kirchnerites ran out of U$.......the peso is 12.30 and climbing like a thermometer in Death Valley.

    Hahahahahahahahahahahahaha

    Jul 21st, 2014 - 03:44 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • yankeeboy

    7. After not meeting with NML I think everyone assumed they would default.
    Anyway Singer will have fun seizing assets in the mean time.
    I hope he starts with the LNG shipments.

    Jul 21st, 2014 - 04:05 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • 鼻孔

    在19, 20

    Why so many much hate to Argentina? What say this of you soul spirit poet?

    Jul 21st, 2014 - 04:16 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Captain Poppy

    Hey #21 chin chin point me to where I say I hate Argentines? I actually am in love with them.........lol. But you know that.

    Jul 21st, 2014 - 04:25 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • 鼻孔

    Show love want country person suffer?

    Strange love. Go to doctor strange love.

    Jul 21st, 2014 - 04:27 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • MagnusMaster

    @20 Singer´s first target will be YPF and Chevron´s assets in USA. His goal is to try to stop American investiment in Argentina.

    Jul 21st, 2014 - 04:30 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Captain Poppy

    Some china man you are.......your IP address comes from SA and your email account that you used on to create an MP screen name is in SA.

    Chevron is untouchable. They are a hell of a lot more powerful the Singer so I see that option unattainable. YFP assets in the USA......absolutely. I think this is actually going to get uglier. I am really waiting to see the outcome of the meeting with the judge. I've won civil cases in my past and lost financially. I find it ironic that BP is transporting Argentina's LNG to Bahia Blanco terminal.

    Jul 21st, 2014 - 04:48 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • yankeeboy

    Its not so much the ability to attach the assets the goal will be to harass and embarrass them until they come to the table.
    Tighten the noose
    If he gets some assets to sell that will be icing on the cake.

    Jul 21st, 2014 - 04:54 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Vestige

    The world looks on at the vulture funds.
    First they came for Argentinas finances.
    ...

    Jul 21st, 2014 - 04:56 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • yankeeboy

    The world wants contract law upheld and laws obeyed.
    Everyone knows Argentina is a deadbeat scofflaw.
    The only people to blame for the coming collapse are the Ks.
    Nobody else.

    Jul 21st, 2014 - 05:08 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Captain Poppy

    #27 Argentina situation is unique.......don't get a chubby so soon or you might get wet pants. They did not come for Argentina's finances, they came collecting on a contract that Argentina signed and whomever holds the contract owns the debt.

    I understand what you are saying yb and I am in no way supporting the Kirchner's or Peronist's but, I am not so convinced now that they are on the dance floor the steps will be so well defined. I really want to see what comes out in tomorrows meeting. Regardless of anyone's opinions, time is the real barometer. I know the currency swap took of few of by surprise including Dan Loeb.....I would not be surprised if a few other names as well.

    Jul 21st, 2014 - 05:19 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Conqueror

    Can I see Judge Griesa's response coming? If argieland was honest about intending to pay 100% of bondholders, and has the funds, then it should have deposited enough money with the Bank of New York Mellon to allow all the bondholders, holdouts and restructures, to be paid. It has the information to be able to calculate the amount of interest due to the holdouts. It could have confirmed the amount with the judge and the holdouts. So which juvenile thought they could get away with ignoring the court's order? Kicillof trying to be a “whiz kid” or CFK being a bitch. I think we all know that it was CFK being a silly bitch.

    As a matter of interest, since argieland is due to make a payment to the Paris Club in the near future, how would such a payment be made? Could Judge Griesa block that as well? Doesn't his order apply widely to ensure argieland can't evade his judgement?

    Amusingly, it appears that, at tomorrow's meeting with the judge, argieland's lawyers will focus on getting a stay of the freeze on the money argieland deposited. Argieland reckons it has “fulfilled its responsibility” by making the deposit. Could be a very short meeting. Don't we always have to say it? What fantasy world does argieland live in? It's a bit like the old excuse for not having a tax disc displayed on your car “It's in the post”. The rules were quite straightforward. Display a current tax disc on the car. Isn't there something similar for bonds? Otherwise every bond issuer could just say they had paid when they hadn't.

    @27. Yep. Should be a salutary lesson for governments. Don't try scamming your investors. Someone like Singer could be just round the corner. Any government worried about the effects of this case is probably planning something illegal and detrimental to investors. Paul Singer has done a very worthwhile service for the world's investors.

    Jul 21st, 2014 - 05:25 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Vestige

    sorry 28 - the world doesnt want private billionaires interfering in national debt.

    When someone can reap 1068% profit and add zero value to the world its very likely not good for anyone.

    ... except the shifty new york money lender.

    Jul 21st, 2014 - 05:29 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • LEPRecon

    @31 Vestige

    Well if Argentina had payed it's debts on time then it's creditors (the little people - not the billionaires) wouldn't have felt it necessary to sell on the debt to these hedge funds.

    All of this is of Argentina's making. Ignoring it won't make the debt go away. Refusing to pay won't make Argentina's debt go away. Defaulting (again) won't make Argentina's debt go away.

    Instead of blaming the hedge funds Argentina needs to have a good long look at itself in the mirror.

    If you can't pay your debts (in full) then don't borrow money in the 1st place.

    Oh, and whilst you're reflecting on this, also reflect on where has all of Argentina's wealth disappeared to?

    I mean these billionaires haven't got it...I wonder...oh that's right, your government has stolen it and stashed it in off-shore bank accounts for their own personal use. The rest of you can starve and probably will starve for all they care.

    Never mind Vestige, maybe one day Argentina will get an honest government, but 1st it needs to grow up and stop blaming everyone else for self created problems.

    Jul 21st, 2014 - 05:37 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Captain Poppy

    If that is what the world does not want than nations should not be going to private financiers begging for money.

    You left lizards love saying 1068% based on what the funds paid which is irrelevant. What is relevant is the terms in the paper. Are you saying if the funds paid face value for the funds Argentina would would have paid the note back?

    Three questions:

    #1 What are the terms of the actual notes as you are concerned with what Singer makes because they bought them at a steep discount?

    (I bought Ford a 1.5 a share in 2008 and sold at 15 a couple of years later. You have a problem with that?)

    #2 Please lay out your calculation on the 1068%?

    #3 What would the orignal bonds yield (as opposed to the 1068%)?

    Don't forget, what is the actual percent Argentina borrowed at?

    Jul 21st, 2014 - 05:45 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Vestige

    Ironic that you would back such rogue bankers when those of the same ilk have probably screwed you over manys the time in ways that you can't see.

    Turkeys voting for Christmas.

    Jul 21st, 2014 - 05:50 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Viscount Falkland

    Maybe..' Think'.... could lead a delegation to New York to renegotiate the terms ...again...and again
    Maybe all Betts are off !

    Jul 21st, 2014 - 05:58 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Be serious

    Thinkitdover wouldn't be allowed to play cricket.
    It's not a game for any Tom, DICK or Harry.

    Jul 21st, 2014 - 06:08 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Captain Poppy

    I don't back them....at all, in fact I find them repugnant and repulsive. What I do back is the rule of law. Every trip I take to Argentina I seldom think Argentine's are idiots then I come here and read idiot posts like yours.

    Why did you borrow the money? Why diud you go to financiers?

    You cannot answer my simple questions can you? And why is that because you only know the propagandized scripts?

    Why RG's have a hard time with the concept of rules and laws? If you can't answer those simple questions you lose all legitimacy.

    Law.....something lacking in Argentina. Even Asslips kirchner legal reform decriminalizes pedophiles. I assume because of Fatsimo Kirchner her fuck fuck of a son.

    Jul 21st, 2014 - 06:11 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Klingon

    ARRRH The rest of the world finally gets a taste of Kristina and see's what we have to deal with on a daily basis.

    Jul 21st, 2014 - 06:28 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ElaineB

    Why don't the Argentines blame Cristina and ask her where all their money has gone?

    Jul 21st, 2014 - 06:40 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Captain Poppy

    It's in one of the 1000 empty/booked hotel rooms she owns.

    vestige I will be patiently waiting for your response. to my questions.

    Jul 21st, 2014 - 06:49 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Vestige

    If you're very patient your extremely general, pointless, loaded questions might get answered.

    Speaking of idiotic posts. Heres one of your fine moronic moments.

    “Argentina is a heroine addict searching for it's balls”.

    Excuse me one moment...

    Jul 21st, 2014 - 07:12 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • yankeeboy

    Vestige, Why would you want anyone to get away with breaking a law or a contract without consequences?
    Are you promoting anarchy?
    Do you not see that this ruling has re-enforced contract law and made the market stronger?

    Argentina lost and because of a few very stupid and arrogant people running it many millions of people will suffer.

    Jul 21st, 2014 - 07:56 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Briton

    What Argentina needs is a new stable democratic government,
    a better standard of living, to get its self respect back,
    repair all the damage it has caused with the islanders,
    Pay its debts and live in peaceful times again without a military,
    and hey presto , get rid of the plastic CFK and it can all be yours ...lol

    Jul 21st, 2014 - 08:07 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Tobers

    CFK goes on about the evilness of Vulture funds and yet didnt she and her husband use the old capitalist saying of 'buy low, sell high' when they bought cheap public land and sold on for huge personal profit?

    Jul 21st, 2014 - 08:15 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ilsen

    is stocked up with popcorn!

    10 days to go!

    Nomnomnom!

    (Pulls up chair)

    Glass of wine anyone?

    (passes popcorn around)

    Nomnomnom!

    Hehe!

    Jul 21st, 2014 - 08:55 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Jonaz_BsAs

    Popcorn and wine??? What the hell is the matter with you guys? Do you f*ck sheep as well?

    Jul 21st, 2014 - 09:16 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • The Voice

    … .no, we leave that to the Patagonians and bitter old residents of Chubut.

    Nice one Ilsen, just like last nights Mony Python fest… .

    I'm off now for a quick blast on my bagpipes…

    Jul 21st, 2014 - 09:46 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • golfcronie

    LMAO, CFK is pleased to announce that they now have trains that have brakes and will not move until the doors are shut, Whoopdedoo That will stop them from hanging on the carriages, you have to be kidding me CFK, surely people are not allowed to hang on the outside of the train, In third world countries it is the norm,Oh yes they do just like in Africa and india.That is incedible and she admits it. A first for telling the truth. How is it the President is so excited by this, can't see Camoron doing this as the trains are updated regularly.He has a country to run.

    Jul 21st, 2014 - 09:54 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ilsen

    @46
    Ha ha!
    I prefer fucking people. And I am not afraid to fucking swear Sweetie!
    (*f*ckin don't tell momma you said a naughty word!).

    @47 plenty of surrealist humour in Argentina. Not sure if they realise yet...
    :)
    my fish eat bicycles!
    :-)
    Like men...
    arf!

    Jul 21st, 2014 - 10:11 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Captain Poppy

    41. If you think that was general you are stupider than we all think you are. BTW. Show me where I posted that?

    Jul 21st, 2014 - 10:24 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • KFC de Pollo

    http://www.lanacion.com.ar/m1/1711791-la-desafortunada-frase-de-cristina-kierchner-al-inaugurar-los-trenes-del-sarmiento

    what a whore

    Jul 22nd, 2014 - 04:28 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • oni_baba

    At the G-20 last year, the US made a commitment to retain enough “bail-in able debt” for the “too-big-to-fail” banks, where creditors are forced to take losses when banks are rescued. Argentina paying $1.3 billion, is a smidgeon of what Wall St is asking forgiveness for. It's not a dog eat dog world, it's a debt eat debt world!

    Jul 22nd, 2014 - 06:02 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Welsh Wizard

    @31 “When someone can reap 1068% profit and add zero value to the world its very likely not good for anyone.”

    Very similar numbers the the increase in value to CKF's assets over the last few years...

    Jul 22nd, 2014 - 08:21 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Captain Poppy

    That is acceptable though because vestigial does not have to work and he can live on 10 pesos a day.....or was it 6?

    So....where and when did I post that comment?

    Jul 22nd, 2014 - 01:16 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Acchiappaladri

    Everything as expected this morning in J. Griesa's Court ;-)
    Again they laid some smart (they thought so ;-) traps but Griesa outsmarted them LOL

    Ladroprogresista propaganda is not effective before US courts. It seems very hard for Ladriprogresistas to understand that their communication style so successful at home with Militontos doesn't work well in New York City LOL

    Only four, maybe five, business days left to pay the ruling or sign with the HOs an agreement and apply, both parties, for a stay of the court's pari-passu order.
    Other (sovereign!) option : default, again.

    Jul 22nd, 2014 - 06:43 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Captain Poppy

    Regardless of what their style is they themselves do not speak to the judge unless they are in NY State BAR. There lawyers do all the talking and somehow, I do not see their lawyer from NY talking like them to the judge. They would have contempt levied upon them.

    It's over except for the covering the hole.

    Jul 22nd, 2014 - 07:14 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ChrisR

    You can see it now: in just a few years Bug-eyes and TMBOA will be lauded by the then populace for being 'as good as Peron and his whore'.

    Things will be so bad by then that it will be seen as truthful.

    Jul 22nd, 2014 - 09:03 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Brit Bob

    Argentina is already regarded as a 'parish state' by international money lenders' I'm sure that Cristina and the comedy club running Argentina can do even better and cast the country into oblivion....Fingers crossed ... lots of belly chuckles being reserved for the 30th July.

    Jul 22nd, 2014 - 10:17 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ilsen

    @58
    just a week left now.
    I expect cristina is biting her nails and booking into some clinic/spa for 'health' reasons. Do you reckon she will 'lose her voice/dramatically collapse', oh in about 6 days time?
    I do!

    Jul 23rd, 2014 - 06:11 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Tarquin Fin

    59.

    I wouldn't be surprised at all if she makes up an excuse not to face the facts. I bet she might already be preparing the simulation of her own death. That wouldn't surprise me either.

    Jul 23rd, 2014 - 08:47 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Captain Poppy

    Perhaps Argentina will be lucky and someone else will be preparing for that dress rehersal.

    Jul 23rd, 2014 - 09:16 pm - Link - Report abuse 0

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