MercoPress. South Atlantic News Agency
Argentina suggests Griesa and Pollack are actively helping holdouts by declaring a 'default'
The Argentine Economy Ministry claimed on Friday New York judge Thomas Griesa has benefited “vulture funds” during negotiations over Argentina's defaulted debt with holdouts and asked the (Argentine) National Values Commission (CNV) to start an investigation over alleged “speculative moves”. Read full article
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Disclaimer & comment rulesHow do they propose to conduct this investigation? Good luck requesting the trading information from the SEC, I would think the US will quite rightly tell them to take a hike. How would Argentina react if the US wanted to see CFKs trading accounts?
Aug 02nd, 2014 - 09:25 am - Link - Report abuse 0Ahhhh... Argentina.... simply the gift that's keeps on giving :)
Aug 02nd, 2014 - 10:08 am - Link - Report abuse 0'Some' of the bond holders had default insurance! Really, you would have to be as stupid as Kickitoff NOT to have the insurance given the track record of The Dark Country and Singer is not stupid.
Aug 02nd, 2014 - 10:49 am - Link - Report abuse 0It is clear that these crooks who think themselves so clever have yet to wake up to the reality that:
They lost, fair and square;
IF they had paid up in a timely fashion there would be no court cases and therefore no shows of idiocy on their part;
The international investment businesses would still be willing to deal with TDC and loan them money.
Simples.
Do we detect the signs of desperation? Special Master Daniel Pollack seems to have done quite well. Who refused to attend meetings? No doubt the argie team was eventually sent in with instructions to be as obstructive as possible. We've all seen how argieland acts. Obstructive, lying, thieving. And a team with no authority to do a deal. Otherwise, why did it have to rush back to argieland? No doubt Judge Griesa has foreseen all of argieland's stunts. So argieland just looks more idiotic every day. Every day sees argieland's reputation falling farther and farther below zero.
Aug 02nd, 2014 - 12:09 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The Pope Francis would be a good mediator, Im sure he is against speculative financial companies....that buy defaulted debts to obtain millonaires earnings.
Aug 02nd, 2014 - 12:26 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Argentina....not paying, could not be Argentina's fault....could it ?
Aug 02nd, 2014 - 01:04 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Just sounds like more squealing, hot air and distraction.
Aug 02nd, 2014 - 01:32 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Wow, Axel really hit on something, such wisdom. Maybe he could be the next Argentine President. I want to review this, so Griesa's a conspiring agent for the vulture NML, as well as Pollack,(I bet they both don't even know eachother are conspiring agents) the US Judicial System which includes the appeals and Supreme Court, and the ISDA...all conspirators. If you are going to seek action from the SEC, better watch them too if they reject your offer, they are probably in on this conspiracy too. Kicillof has opened my eyes, I can see where they would think Griesa is an agent: when this US Judge who accused Argentina (who went against a court order), of making an illegal move to pay some but not all bondholders of being “lawless,” he gave his cover away, “lawless” is a big adjective. He is guilty, and we on the comments section here have proven it. What about Pollack, now I see....... that he is a conspiring agent for the vulture when he stated on July 30 as it was written legally and not by him, that Argentina is in default, since they didnt pay the exchange as well as the holdout bondholders as written in the contract that (Argentina signed )July 30th that he is GUILTY!!!! Let the investigations begin!!!!
Aug 02nd, 2014 - 01:50 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Maybe Austral Elvis didn't bang on the table hard enough or cry loud enough?
Aug 02nd, 2014 - 03:00 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Yeah that's the reason its all turned against them
:)
Muppets
Aug 02nd, 2014 - 04:30 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Poor Baby Elvis Kissoff! The entire world is conspiring against you. rant/whine . . . . rant/whine. . . . Did Nestor leave a mess in your diaper?
Aug 02nd, 2014 - 04:31 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Just what does it take for Griesla to hold this man in contempt?
Aug 02nd, 2014 - 05:20 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@11. It is possible that Griesa is waiting for the right moment. I don't know much about U.S. law so my initial thought was that, being a member of a foreign government, Kicillof could do virtually anything. Possibly provided that he wasn't directly rude to the judge whilst physically in the court. Then I thought I'd research it a little more. It appears that, in the U.S., there can be either direct or indirect contempt. Direct contempt, of course, occurs in the presence of the presiding judge. But indirect contempt occurs outside the immediate presence of the court and consists of disobedience of a court's prior order. Well, Kicillof & co are certainly guilty of that. The sanctions may then be either civil or criminal. In other words, it could be a fine or a term of imprisonment. But then, we are considering a minister of a foreign government. Can a U.S. court impose a sanction on a foreign government? In January 2013, a U.S. federal court entered civil contempt sanctions against Russia and certain Russian entities of US$50,000 PER DAY for failure to comply with a court order. So sanctions are possible. There have been some cases of civil contempt that have been perceived as intending to harm the reputation of the judge or the court.
Aug 02nd, 2014 - 08:20 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Kicillof could be on the edge of a cliff. If he arrives in the U.S. he could find himself in the custody of the U.S. Marshals Service. And he'll next find himself standing in front of Judge Griesa. There is no principle of proportionality. In 2002, it was held that a defendant could be held indefinitely under federal law. It was a matter of producing money. In the end he was held for 14 years. Kicillof is in double jeopardy. Failing to comply with a court order AND attempting to damage the judge's reputation AND that of the U.S. judicial system. Might be best, Senor Kicillof, if you NEVER visit the U.S.again.
@ChrisR La Nata an agent of the vultures, they pick from his investigation this will not en pretty they are rumors that the fight became personal with the leader of the dark country using your expression, is in the article of the wall street journal.
Aug 02nd, 2014 - 08:39 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@12 Conqueror
Aug 02nd, 2014 - 10:31 pm - Link - Report abuse 0A most interesting and informative post.
Thank you for doing the research, I am a bit pressed for time at the momement so this kind of background info is appreciated.
Kirchner, Kicillof & Capitanich, what a team. The psychodrama continues. Take away their free lunch & this is what happens ---continues.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bH3lB8e2hDk
Aug 02nd, 2014 - 10:40 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@15
Aug 02nd, 2014 - 10:52 pm - Link - Report abuse 0haha! a very apt post/link!
little piggies squealing, waiting to be slaughered for the global market.
As ChrisR says, “Don't mess with Mr Market”
Sorry to rain on the troll army parade, but Axel Kicilloff''s claim makes a lot of sense.
Aug 03rd, 2014 - 12:48 am - Link - Report abuse 0Firstly, consider Judge Griesa's strange interpretation of the Pari Passu clause as if it was done to cover the vultures' arses.
Secondly, consider Griesa's genial move to block payment to 92.4 per cent of creditors to the benefit of 1 per cent of the creditors (Paul Singer and his army of litigating vultures).
Thirdly, think about Griesa's unexplained refusal to concede a stay of his ruling as requested by Argentina until the RUFO clause expired Dec. 31. If agreed to, the vultures would have lost but a few months in a battle of many years.
In summary: Griesa blocks everything from his high magistrate seat, the vultures get the insurance dough!
Epilogue: “All is tied, and well tied up,” as Spain's Generalisimo Francisco Franco said before his death.
@17
Aug 03rd, 2014 - 01:28 am - Link - Report abuse 0Obviously you are in denial.
Accept the facts. Argentina is in default.
They can continue to lie and squeal all they like. The facts remain, Argentina is in DEFAULT.
Deal with it. Time to move on and face reality.
17. Stupid people always think there are wild conspiracies everywhere.
Aug 03rd, 2014 - 01:37 am - Link - Report abuse 0@19 yb
Aug 03rd, 2014 - 01:49 am - Link - Report abuse 0For others that may not be aware
http://venezuelaconspiracytheories.blogspot.com.es/?m=1
Is there anything similar regarding the truth about Argentina?
Can anyone recommend?
Denial? Conspiracies? Not at all! It's just a perverse system churning its way along.
Aug 03rd, 2014 - 05:56 am - Link - Report abuse 0However, pushing a perfectly viable country to a 'default' that can be named “technical,” “selective” or whatever else you want to call it, just to push for a handful of predatory financiers to get their way, does not make sense to most people.
In any event, not one may change reality, not even the honourable commentators here.
And reality is, “defaulting” Argentina is nowhere near the situation it was in 2001--especially not in default situation what-so-ever.
At that time, unemployment was 20 per cent--it now sits at 7 per cent--and the economy contracted 10 per cent (in the last decade growth averaged 7 per cent, slowing to 3 per cent in 2013).
Debt was equal to 166 of the GDP. It now is 42 per cent.
And best of all, we have a team of representatives who negotiate on behalf of the country--not against the country as previous governments used to do. There is no going back on that, much to the displeasure of some.
@21
Aug 03rd, 2014 - 07:18 am - Link - Report abuse 0Have you had the opportuneatly to read the bonds contract, if not then how can you comment on the whether or not Argentina has renegaded on the contract. I am sure that the lawyers on both sides are conversant with contract law. Argentina has US lawyers acting on their behalf so if they have found any problems with Griesa's judgement I am sure they would have voiced their concern. The problem lies with Argentina and their so called government. Why not say things face to face with the judge instead of behind his back in Argentina, you guys have an awfull lot to learn. He will hold you in contempt of court if the mudslinging keeps going on.
@17 None of the judges decisions are odd if you know the context - that Argentina has been dragging this out for years, delaying it as much as they could and appealing every decision, and on top of that saying that if the decision goes against them they still won't pay. In that context the judge had no option but to put in place what otherwise might look like tough conditions, in an attempt to force Argentina to meet its obligations.
Aug 03rd, 2014 - 07:29 am - Link - Report abuse 0In other words, if Argentina wasn't so deranged it wouldn't have come to this. Now you had better just suck it up and stop complaining. You politicised this case and lost.
ARGENTINA SHOULD HAVE ONLY GIVEN A SIGN, A PROMISE TO JUDGE GRIESA / MEDIATOR POLLACK AND THE HOLDOUTS, THAT IT WOULD NEGOTIATE IN GOOD FAITH AND IT WILL FULFILL THE COURT ORDER (EXTENDED TO ALL HOLDOUTS) AND REPAY THE DEBT TO THE HOLDOUTS, AFTER THE RUFO CLAUSE EXPIRES IN DECEMBER 2014.
Aug 03rd, 2014 - 09:39 am - Link - Report abuse 0THEN THE HOLDOUTS WOULD HAVE SURELY ASKED JUDGE GRIESA TO REINSTALL THE “STAY” UNTIL JANUARY 1, 2015.
IT WOULD BE SURELY ADVISABLE FOR ARGENTINA AND THE HOLDOUTS TO CONTINUE WITH NEGOTIATIONS.
21. Its not as bad as 2001...for the avg Rg...yet! As a country the economics, balance sheet are much much worse than in 2001. There was no inflation then, there was no threat of hyperinflation, there was room to devalue, and there were plenty of U$ of savings in various entities that have since been nationalized and stolen.
Aug 03rd, 2014 - 11:22 am - Link - Report abuse 0Remember over the last decade you also had SOY, Cars and Tourism bringing in U$. All 3 of those are gone and won't return for a very very very long time.
Shortly you will be in a much worse situation than 2001 just give it time to roll out.
A promise to a judge, this is not Argentina where the judges are handpicked by the government, and anyway give me in the context of this litigation where Argentina has kept a promise. Once a liar always a liar they do not know what truth is.
Aug 03rd, 2014 - 12:17 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@17, 21. Given a certain amount of experience, one notes the desperate attempts to find any possible excuse for criminal behaviour. What's wrong with equal treatment? Why would the judge permit argiethiefland to evade his order? Ditto. Actually,it's a small matter of complying with the law in the relevant jurisdiction.
Aug 03rd, 2014 - 01:56 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Are post numbers getting mixed up on here? Is it some tech glitch? They seem to be out of sync with the responses. Including my own! (17 & 19) @21 etc.
Aug 03rd, 2014 - 03:25 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Odd!
Oh yes ilsen #17. So good to admonish a whole country from your imagined high seat.
Aug 03rd, 2014 - 08:16 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I have news for you. This whole saga has brought to the public attention the tactics that allowed vulture funds to siphon millions from Peru as well as impoverished, heavily indebted countries such as Zambia, Liberia and Congo.
So a good outcome of this whole incident would be the banishment of the vulture's parasitical practices from the world's financial scene.
@30
Aug 03rd, 2014 - 08:57 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The “ holdouts ” are doing the honest countries a favour. If you borrow money and pay it back you have no problem. Unfortuneately Argentina borrowed money and refused to pay it back so someone made them sit up and take notice. All you countries that want to borrow money, take note we will expect to be paid. Everyone has forgotten the fact that restructuring is the last resort not the first. Pay back and it isn't a problem.
@Enrique Massot you are so innocent and misguided as a mater of fact you are and idiot just like all uneducated south American if the loans where use properly then there will be no problem in repaying back but since the loans where made to increase the country productivity if use properly then should not be and issue repaying but because they were probably and most likely taken by the corrupt politicians well then whole country should pay
Aug 03rd, 2014 - 09:03 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Is all ways the capitalist at fault well you need to address you own internal issues and hang you own leaders how about that you idiot.
Argentina suggests Griesa and Pollack are actively helping holdouts by declaring a 'default'
Aug 03rd, 2014 - 10:24 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Excuses, excuses, excuses!!!
Delay, Delay.........DEFAULT
Just stop whining and pay what you owe.
You are loaded anyway, the La Campora Trolls go on and on and on and on and ON about how you can buy the world. You own president keeps on saying that the economy is in GREAT shape so just pay what you owe.
@30
Aug 04th, 2014 - 12:00 am - Link - Report abuse 0You sound familiar. Looks like one of my old stalker-trolls is back under another screen name because they have been UTTERLY DISCREDITED previously.
How boring. Yawn.
You are so wrong in your statements that I laugh at your naivety.
Just pay what you owe and jog on.
National Values Commission??? WTF?? They have no “values”.
Aug 04th, 2014 - 12:04 pm - Link - Report abuse 0So now the holdouts stand to make even more money from holding out, whilst Argentina still owes them.
Aug 04th, 2014 - 05:41 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You have to hand it to them, they are clever Bar*tards, heads they win, tails they win.
If you really believe that Mr Kicillof', you could always spanner the plan by paying them.
It is so beautiful.
Aug 04th, 2014 - 10:49 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Kicillof claims that “The mediator has ”absolutely exceeded his involvement and his powers on describing as 'default' the impediment imposed by Judge Griesa for some bondholders to collect their monies“.”
Standard & Poor's earlier Wednesday said Argentina was in “selective default” for failing to pay bondholders.
Argentina Put Into Selective Default by Standard & Poor's
www.nasdaq.com/article/argentina-put-into-selective-default-by-standard--poors-20140730-01652
Moody's changes Argentina's outlook to negative as default will hasten economic decline
https://www.moodys.com/research/Moodys-changes-Argentinas-outlook-to-negative-as-default-will-hasten--PR_305436
Fitch downgrades Argentina to ‘restricted default’
https://www.moodys.com/research/Moodys-changes-Argentinas-outlook-to-negative-as-default-will-hasten--PR_305436
The International Swaps and Derivatives Association (ISDA) declares Argentina in default, bonds extend losses
https://www.moodys.com/research/Moodys-changes-Argentinas-outlook-to-negative-as-default-will-hasten--PR_305436
- but of course idiot Kicillof knows better than the entire financial world - after all, he is the one with the 1992 style sideburns.
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