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Montevideo, December 4th 2022 - 08:41 UTC
The offshore patrol vessels (OPVs), which will be used by the Royal Navy to undertake various tasks in support of UK interests both at home and abroad, will be built at BAE Systems’ shipyards in Glasgow. Read full article
Sea trials in the River Plate I hear.
Michael Fallon said that UK warships are only built in UK shipyards
Naughty naughty....pre referendum sweeteners...
There have been loads of sweeteners. Question is which way will Think be voting?
It will hopefully result in the Chilean navy to acquire up to three Royal Navy river class vessels, commissioned in 2003. Of course if the the terms are reasonable, and the copper market doesn't collapse...
The Royal Navy builds more grade A ships! - I've been on the River Class (I'm ex RN)
I'm glad we share our ships with the Chilean Navy, they are a good and professional Navy and thoroughly decent folk!
Although saying that when relations were better I helped also train Argentine sailors too and they were good quality individuals, clever, brave and talented they just lacked training, warfare knowledge and decent Warships.
From (5) Xect's Anglo perspective, Argentine sailors just lacked training, warfare knowledge and decent warships.
From (6) Think's Argie perspective, Argentinean sailors just lacked moral, life ethics and basic decency.
You probably already know that we have 1 type 22 and 3 type 23 former HMS frigates that are lovingly maintained and constantly updated. The relations between our two navies has always been very cordial.
OA long time ago, I was very fortunate to audit classes at Dartmouth as well as in Greenwich. There were cadets from all over the globe and the pubs were full of delightfully charming maids, who had no idea where Chile was located at. Your admiralty however knew quite well and I was given VIP treatment as we had been of great support during the FI conflict. Great memories!
I pretty much agree with you regarding the quality and character of the majority of Argentine officers/sailors, but the culture of widespread corruption, poor morale and virtually no esprit de corps complicated with no funds to properly maintain their fleet has resulted in the current disaster that represents the national armada. We too had our bad elements in leadership that harmed our prestige, but fortunately nothing quite as bad as what happened across the Andes.
Argentina has purged that dark leadership from its ranks, but their fleet is nearly non-deployable and rusting at port. .ll..So many horror stories, especially including their submarine fleet that reflect their sad comedy...
The Argentine officers and sailors I personally came into contact with impressed me as decent and good men, but there were those in both Chilean as well as Argentine flag ranks that were certifiable sons of whores...
In my personal experience, the sons of whores outnumbered the decent and good men by about 1.000 to 1...
Coward, lying amoebas most of them...
Like this nice exemplar, under trial as I type...
Thanks for the reply Chicureo.
Both the Type 22 and 23 are good for different reasons. My first ship was HMS Richmond ('23) and she is a brilliant ship. Whenever we had war games against other navies I can honestly say we always won and it was always a combination of a highly trained crew and advanced technology on the warship.
Yes the British don't forget who their friends are and what Chile did for us during the FI conflict which is one of the many reasons I like seeing us sharing our technology, training and warfare capability with you.
It's a shame was cant develop helpful relations with our Argentine friends. The military I trained never had any problems with us in the way posters on here and a few in power in Argentina do.
Those who have no remorse for their criminal actions have my contempt. Those who were ordered to commit atrocities and now deeply regret doing so I sadly sympathize with. Crimes against humanity is evil, but sometimes the lack of forgiveness for those who admit their guilt is wrong as well.
Newborn infants stolen from their murdered mothers is beyond my comprehension.
A wise Argentine president would focus on developing a strong regional defense force and forget about flexing its power into the South Atlantic, but we both know that will never happen...
I heard a story from one of the Joint Warrior exercises that a Turkish frigate taking part in the exercise off NW Scotland had to be withdrawn.
It could not stand the battering of the Atlantic weather. OK for the Med. but not for northern latitudes. Our RN ships have to be built tough.
Whenever we had war games against other navies I can honestly say we always won
I would have thought that was an exaggeration...but I have a relative that served on the Ark Royal and he said the same thing....
Clyde, that doesn't surprise me one bit, I experienced similar many times.
I've been through the bay of Biscay in very severe conditions on a 23' and nearly other warship had to run for cover because of the weather. A US Warship got water down its funnel that wrecked an engine and a Greek warship's main gun partially loaded due to the crashing which was a obviously a very dangerous situation.
The Royal Navy? We had an Ariel ripped off the bridge roof but other than that were fine. We always cultivated a reputation of being able to do more
Article is not correct - The ships will only be built in Glasgow if Scotland votes to remain in the UK. If they vote to leave the UK, then the ships will be built elsewhere within the UK i.e. England, wales or northern Ireland and not built in Scotland! That was made clear by the minster of defense and his predecessor that UK navy ships would be built in the UK only!
BAE systems also confirmed should Scotland vote to leave the UK they would need to discuss the matter with the MOD and UK Government to find alternative shipbuilding, which will likely mean reopening the shipyards in Portsmouth and re-employing skilled workers that lost their jobs last year when it was closed.
Anglo Ex Royal Navy (Xect) at (9) is a perfect example of military brainwashing and turnipiditing of otherwise seemingly good human material...
He postulates at (9)...:
”The (ARGENTINE) military I trained NEVER HAD ANY PROBLEMS WITH US in the way posters on here and a few in power in Argentina do.
Well......, unless Mr. Xect is over 100 years old, the chances that he trained criminal, rebellious & seditious Argentinean military personnel are nearly 100%....
His training of those criminal, rebellious & seditious Argentinean military personnel has, with the highest degree of probability taken place during the sixties and seventies, financed by the British taxpayer that during the above mentioned period of time loaned” the diverse Argentinean dictatorships some £1,500 million, EARMARKED for military purchases. (Traveling Circus of British Training Personnel, kindly included)...
I Think we all know what all those British weapons and training were used for in 1982...
I understand the sea at Puerto Belgrano Naval Base, near the city of Bahía Blanca was so rough it actually sank the ARA Santísima Trinidad destroyer. ...at the dock... Says volumes about the combat readiness of the fleet...
Think, not all your countrymen that served in the Navy were bad apples... Argentines are generally good people, it's just that the majority of your leaders that are completely rotten.
I spent the vast majority of my service on land in either Valparaiso or Santiago. (I really never had the stomach for stormy seas.)
Due to the delay in the commencement of building the Type 26, the Government was going to have to pay BAe pretty much the same amount of money these ships are costing for them to do nothing but keep the skilled workers employed during the gap in work. There was a suggestion the RN might have these as an addition to the existing patrol fleet but it has been left up to them and with manning issues I think they will just get rid of the Rivers and concentrate on getting enough manpower to have the two QEs. It's a shame they couldn't squeeze a hangar in.
Regardless of awarding this contract as a 'sweetener' (which I don't believe it is) I would be rather more concerned if Scotland voted for independence, then our warships would be being constructed by a foriegn power...is this what we really want? Particularly as that twerp Salmond wants our military out of Scotland, we need shipbuilding skills elsewhere in the UK, in a more stable environment.
So what is foreign to you...?
I suppose the Irish are foreigners to you...but only if they live in Southern Ireland....
....and what do you mean more stable...?
How fecking stable can it get when there has never ever been a referendum by the people of Scotland to decide who they want to be....
300 years of stability is not very stable to you....
You DO NOT understand what happened in Scotland....
The SNP got in because of disillusionment with the Labour party it wasn't because people felt particularly nationalistic...
Salmond had promised there would be a referendum if he got in....
Now the people are in a position of having to face a decision that has been forced on them by the victory of the SNP.....most folk I have spoken to actually resent being put in this position of having to make a choice....
A lot of people are afraid to voice their opinion which is usually...
There has not been enough information and clarity been made available by the Scottish Govt to make an INFORMED DECISION....
So as you may imagine...those that are going to vote YES will not change their mind, those that are going to vote NO are also not going to change their minds and those the are undecided are going to err on the side of caution and vote NO...
This is the impression that I have gotten from speaking to most Scots....
BTW the Scots don't give a shit what you think as it's not your decision....
Now you are Informed....
Think with respect, I worked with the Argentine navy in the early 2000's and the officers I worked with seemed like thoroughly decent folk.
I judge individuals rather than trying to tar everyone with the same brush.
I had read the same thing in blogs by RN personnel. What think seems to infer is that ALL the Argentine Navy were complicit in the torture and murder of Argentine citizens. Even the young ratings who went down with the Belgrano ?
their are things we are told, and things we are not,
as far as the British government is concerned, all things are normal, until things are not normal, savvy !
The royal navy will continue Alfred's legacy to the letter.
to defend us from them..lol
Read the article, the minister said that Royal Navy ships are built internally, if Scotland votes to break the Union (which I hope they don't) then Scotland will be a foriegn country...unless you have an alternative definition?
As far as Southern Ireland is concerned, yes, it's not part of the UK, therefore foriegn, once again, a definition...perhaps your issue is a triumph of emotion over a dictionary definition?
Please remember, it was Scotland who asked for the Union in the first place when a venture to establish a colony in the Americas left their exchequer in ruins, hence no referendum until now.
The people of Scotland asked to be part of the Union like the people of the UK asked to be part of the EU.....
BTW..it's you that deems the Irish as foreigners...
The dictionary won't tell me that 25% of the UK population have some Irish ancestry....in fact the odds are if you are a Brit you will also have some Scottish ancestry if you look for it....
Achieving political independence doesn't make you a foreigner....if that was the case then the Scots the Welsh and the Irish are already foreigners but without political independence...
Note I didn't mention English....as you are obviously English.....and everyone is deemed a foreigner to you.....
Problem is....the facts say otherwise....
Your statement is laughable that anyone not in the POLITICAL Union is a foreigner....
You personally are likely to be a mongrel a mix of English, Scot, Irish and Welsh...
Start calling your relatives foreign.....
...and if you think you are only English...then you are the Johnny-come-lately foreigner as the Celts were here before you.....
You clearly have deep rooted emotional issues, I see no future in this debate.
You clearly thought you could waltz in.... make your glib anti Scottish remarks and get away with it...
....close the door on your way out...
Now now chaps,
their is more British in all of them, than their is foreign blood, so relax,
we will all be celebrating Christmas together,
unless you all know something we don't...
Interesting article Think. It clearly shows that the 'No' vote is winning by a very large margin.
Seems there are a lot of smart people in Scotland!
Thanks for posting.
The bookmakers have an interesting perspective of what may happen in two weeks.
ODDSCHECKER PUNTER COUNT
16th August ACTUAL Bets(%)
58.37%.(+).. ........41.63% (-).
18 September Projected Punter Count at Close of Polling
58.22% (-) …..........41.78% (+)
KEY:(-) indicates decline from previous post; (+) means increase on previous ; NC=No Change.
It will be interesting to see how it all plays out.
I personally think a yes vote will be a bad thing for Scotland but I also support their right to choose their own future if they do want to leave the union. However with that being said I think Salmond isn't a good leader for Scotland and he's trying to have his cake and eat it in reference to making promises he can't possibly when he has no right too.
Still either way we will still be brothers even if times will be difficult with a yes vote for a while.
Royal Air Force-
Personally, I'd like to see the union remain, but with far greater autonomy , especially regarding taxation and distribution of North Sea revenues.
The last bit of HMS-POW leaves Portsmouth, and ends shipbuilding in England,
crappy dysfunctional government,
lack of orders for the navy, yet plenty of cash to give away in aid.
@30 that is the number of people betting on each option
The odds on the referendum (differing slightly on each bookmaker) are along the lines of
No 1/8 on
Yes 9/2 against
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