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Malvinas Museum incorporates San Martin letter referred to links with South Atlantic Islands

Monday, August 18th 2014 - 06:17 UTC
Full article 58 comments

The Malvinas Islands Museum in Argentina has incorporated a letter allegedly handwritten by Liberator General Jose de San Martin and dated August 1816, a month after Argentina formally declared independence (07/09/1816) in which he mentions having given instructions to liberate prisoners in Patagones (Patagonia) and Malvinas Islands so they can join the Andes army. Read full article

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  • Buzzsaw

    HA, Ha, HA So Spain had a few prisons in a few far off places, whats your point?

    “The letter is evidence that while becoming a free nation Argentina was exercising sovereignty over the Malvinas Islands.”
    Did you also exercise sovereignty over Patagonia at the time, as that was also mentioned in the letter? and if so please show a map from that time, that shows Argentinian borders incorporating those two areas mentioned?

    After all, it is all about territorial integrity is it not.

    They must have kept a few things back for the masses for when the 'shit really hits the fan'. I guess they have decided it is time to deflect the people once again

    Aug 18th, 2014 - 07:25 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • CKurze30k

    “...even before they were usurped by the British in 1833”

    Why do they continue to repeat this lie? In 1833, Britain was the rightful holder of sovereignty. Argentina was the one attempting to usurp the islands by installing an illegal garrison and colony.
    ”...since the population in the Islands was transplanted by an occupying power...”
    Technically true. The population was transplanted by *Argentina*. When the garrison was removed by the rightful owners, the civilians were invited to stay.

    If Argentina wants to negotiate over the Falkland Islands, they should start by agreeing to stop lying.

    Aug 18th, 2014 - 07:27 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • LEPRecon

    Mr Filmus seems unable to comprehend simple concepts...such as Britain holding sovereignty from 1690 onwards, reaffirmed in 1746.

    Now correct me if I'm wrong, but chronologically 1690 and 1746 happened BEFORE 1816, so in 1816 the rebellious Spanish colony was trying to usurp British territory.

    And unlike the Argentines we have actual PROOF that we were there 1st.

    But again it is all a moot point. The only thing that matters today, in the 21st century, is international law...the UN Charter which states that all people have the right to self-determination. And before our La Campora trolls leap on board the Falkland Islanders ARE a people, and the UN has NEVER defined what constitutes a people, and they are the only ones that matter, not Argentinas fascist views.

    Aug 18th, 2014 - 07:42 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Monkeymagic

    This is fantastic:

    1) How many of the Spanish population on the islands in 1811 ever became Argentine?

    NONE

    2) How many of the Argentines who were evicted in 1833 had been on the islands for more than 6 weeks?

    NONE

    QED

    All done, all finished.

    Aug 18th, 2014 - 08:22 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • JustinKuntz

    The Spanish evacuated the prisoners in 1807 and withdrew the few remaining members of the garrison in 1811. In 1667, Spain built nothing, I presume he means 1767 when the Spanish bought the French settlement of Port St Louis and renamed it Puerto Soledad.

    ”since the population in the Islands Argentina was transplanted by an occupying power (Spain) and is not original to the Islands continent“.

    I guess no one in Argentina is entitled to self-determination then, time to kick 'em out and give the land back to the natives.

    Aug 18th, 2014 - 08:31 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • CaptainSilver

    Hey Mr Filmus, a exhibit for you.... Think

    A whisky soaked fossilised old crud from the distant past

    Just right in your museum!

    Aug 18th, 2014 - 09:06 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • HansNiesund

    Argentina’s case for the Falklands rests on a principle of colonial inheritance that was never left to it, by a country that never held undisputed sovereiginty in the first place, and which did not recognise Argentina until some 50 years after its foundation.

    This case depends furthermore upon dubious interpretations of treaties Argentina was never a party to, repudiation of the one treaty Argentina was a party to, and a profound confusion between the concepts of freehold and leasehold, centred on the role and persona of a French/German businessman playing both sides against the middle and later indicted by the United States for piracy.

    A 19th century newspaper report of a sailor claiming a pirate captain claimed to have claimed the islands on behalf of the United Provinces is also presented in evidence.

    More recently Argentina has further sought to bolster its case by reference to underwater geology and avian migration patterns, notably that of the black-browed albatross, this latter element being apparently an initiative of the President herself.

    In pursuing its claim, Argentina rejects any application of the UN Charter, law, democracy or human rights. It chose instead to start a war which it lost, heavily and deservedly. But some 30 years Argentina now believes it can negotiate the surrender of the victor by claiming in front of a UN decolonisation committee composed of its chums that the principle of colonial inheritance allows it to colonise the islands regardless of the inhabitants. It supports this by case by reference to a doctrine of implanted populations which would logically disenfranchise the entire American continent, including Argentina itself.

    And now they’ve found a mention of the islands in a 200 year old letter which they have placed in a museum.

    This is certainly going to wipe Ebola, Ukraine, ISIS, Gaza, and the latest Argentine default off the front pages.

    Aug 18th, 2014 - 09:43 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Anglotino

    Even San Martin couldn't stand to live in Argentina.

    Aug 18th, 2014 - 09:45 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • lsolde

    Filmus could have written the letter himself, for all we know!
    But who cares, anyway?
    Write or produce as many letters as you like Argentina.
    The answer is still NO.

    Aug 18th, 2014 - 09:58 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Monkeymagic

    7.....Brilliant summary

    Aug 18th, 2014 - 10:52 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Mendoza Canadian

    I think its time for Canada to get Alaska...it is physically attached...

    Aug 18th, 2014 - 11:29 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ChrisR

    “The document is one more of hundreds that Argentina has been surfacing to support its claim over the Falkland Islands, with particular emphasis under the current government of Cristina Fernandez de Kirchner.”

    So it must be true! NOT.

    Ha, ha, ha to the power Googol.

    Aug 18th, 2014 - 11:41 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Britworker

    The scary part of this is that this imbecile is in government, trying to justify his wages while all around him crumbles.

    Can you imagine a British minister waving a peice of paper in front if a camera announcing that “the USA is ours, we owned it once”.

    Pitiful!

    Aug 18th, 2014 - 11:44 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Lord Ton

    ”In 1667 Spain built a royal fortress in the Islands. On 20 May 1810, Cornelio Saavedra as president of the first Junta (25 May 1810) orders that a ship regularly links with the Malvinas Islands, and the letter from San Martín comes to confirm this, and obviously our rights“, said Volpe.”

    This is new. I have seen nothing to support this contention. Interesting that it was said without any evidence being offered other than the letter from San Martin which hasa long been known about and doesn't show anything other than his confusion. There was a jail at Carmen de Patagones but Patagonia was out of the control of BA and there is no evidence of anything after the Spanish presidio at Soledad closed in 1811.

    Aug 18th, 2014 - 12:13 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • golfcronie

    I have a letter from my Great great grandfather that catorgorically states that the Falklands belonged to my family. Does that count?

    Aug 18th, 2014 - 12:49 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Devonian

    Even San Martin was “fed up” with Buenos Aires politics - at the very outset of Argentinian independence. Just about says it all really - doesn't it? It appears that nothing much has changed in the subsequent 200 years.

    Aug 18th, 2014 - 01:46 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Conqueror

    Hilarious! If you're some sort of lackey with “responsibility” for a foreign territory or, more accurately, trying to steal a foreign territory, wouldn't it be a good idea to know something of international law? Unless, of course, you are determined to display yourself as an incompetent pillock.

    Let's see now. A document dating from 1816. Two hundred years to find a document in own archives. Ever heard of an index? Will argieland be handing the document over to Britain for forensic examination? Thought not. So it's a forgery. Is this a civil matter? Then it falls to be determined on the balance of probabilities. Argieland always lies. Case closed.

    But there's more. Why does argieland persist in whittering about 200 years ago? It's IRRELEVANT. Only one date is now relevant. 14 June 1982. A legal principle confirmed by the International Court of Justice in 1986. “Uti possidetis”. At the end of an armed conflict, property, including territory, belongs to the possessor. Who was in possession of the Falkland Islands, South Georgia and the South Sandwich Islands when argieland surrendered on 14 June 1982? Case closed! Why does argieland persist in emplying divots?

    Aug 18th, 2014 - 02:55 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • imoyaro

    Operative word “allegedly.”

    Aug 18th, 2014 - 03:13 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Islander1

    What a farce - did they really use bits of paper that big then??????
    Even if it was genuine - and that is just a wee bit unlikley!
    Then by the same logic Argentina should immediatley withdraw from the part of Paraguay it seized in the 1930s and from the southern part of Patagonia which it took from Chile in the 1870-80s - treaty or not treaty as Chile was forced to give up down there as she was busy fighting for survival up north.

    No - once again a load of total hypothetical false tosh a-la-agentina!

    Aug 18th, 2014 - 03:40 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Jmackiej

    Looking at the photograph, I expect that it was the most enormous pair of goggles of Minister of Culture Parodi, that helped find this 200 year old fake letter in the archives? What do you think?

    Aug 18th, 2014 - 03:49 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • The Voice

    The grin on that womans face… thats a fake finger. Wonder where his other hand is.

    Aug 18th, 2014 - 04:28 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • 4n conTroll

    Comment removed by edit0r.

    Aug 18th, 2014 - 04:53 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • gordo1

    Give us a clue about what the Boludo at 22 said which was so offensive.

    I am pleased, however, that finally he is being censored - his rambling and offensive comments really are el colmo!

    Aug 18th, 2014 - 05:15 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • HansNiesund

    Surely not even Argentina can have a Minister of Culture called Parodi? What's the Finance Minister called? Travesti? And what job does Comedi have these days?

    Aug 18th, 2014 - 05:56 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Brit Bob

    Hilarious stuff. Argentina is always willing to use the UN ICJ for its spats with Chile and Uruguay but never for its Great Malvinas Lie. A sovereignty claim without a case makes it illegitimate.

    Aug 18th, 2014 - 06:07 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Briton

    surely with these allegations , the ICJ should insist on seeing the letter, after all fraudulent allegation's is illegal is it not.

    if CFK has proof, then the world needs to see it.

    Aug 18th, 2014 - 06:30 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • JustinKuntz

    It occurs to me they didn't think this one through.

    A letter written in 1816, suggesting they “liberate” prisoners from a Spanish jail at Puerto Soledad, when the prisoners were removed in 1807 and the settlement abandoned in 1811.

    This demonstrates, they didn't have a clue what had been going and had been unable to establish effective control over the territory. The letter is actually detrimental to Argentine claims.

    I hope they do produce it at the ICJ, along with the Vernet correspondence that shows he was operating with the permission of the British consulate, along with Jewett's letters of marque and his report...all those other inconvenient facts.

    Aug 18th, 2014 - 07:44 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Room101

    The present Argentina government belongs in that museum.

    Aug 18th, 2014 - 07:46 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • La Patria

    @28
    More like in a nuthouse, although you could argue that the casa rosado is one already

    Aug 18th, 2014 - 08:35 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Monkeymagic

    Justin...it doesn't matter, nobody will read it or care. They are brainwashed, not a critical thinking brain cell amongst them.

    The utter contempt that the Argentine government treats its population by feeding them this shit.

    1) this document says the prisoners on the islands could help Argentina...I.e. The Spanish who controlled the islands were not Argentine and did not bequeath anything.

    2) as you say the prisoners had gone 9 years earlier and the Spanish 5 years earlier, they had no idea what was going on on the islands, less still had sovereignty.

    3) they grouped the “Malvinas” with Patagonia, which they didn't have sovereignty over until 1880.

    It's all TOTAL AND UTTER BOLLOCKS....but then Axel ARG will lap it up with his “partial lectures” LOL

    Aug 18th, 2014 - 08:47 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ilsen

    What larks! What japes!

    Absolutely none of this matters outside of the looney-tunes funhouse of Casa Rosada. ..
    Although the timing is rather suspicious. .. we haven't got the 1.3 billion bits of paper we borrowed recently but we have found this one from 200 years ago.....
    *waves it about*

    Really? Is anyone buying this?

    Aug 18th, 2014 - 09:36 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • BOTINHO

    “ Daniel Filmus, head of the Malvinas affairs desk in the Argentine foreign ministry, announced today that an important relic was recently found proving that Argentina is fully justified in claim of ownership of the Islas Malvinas , also known as the Falkland Islands. ”

    The ancient relic is described as a small golden-haired figure with the inscription “ Islas Malvinas- Argentina, 1520, Esteban Gómez ” on the back of the relic, “ which further proves beyond a shadow of a doubt that the islands our ours, ” adding that “ this means Esteban Gómez was aware of our Malvinas Islands, before we even existed, and even before they were usurped by the British in 1833. Even ! ” he added for dramatic punctuation.

    Some forensic experts skeptically described the “ relic ” actually as a recently buried American-made blonde Xuxa, or Barbie-doll, with the inscription tattooed onto the doll's butt, using a felt-tip marking pen.

    Sr. Filmus, mouth open, waiving his finger, and turning red, was having none of that, and said that “ No, no, no, no, NO ! This valuable and authentic relic throws out the “self determination” argument from Britain to justify the possession of the Malvinas, since the population in the Islands was transplanted by an occupying power and is not original to the Islands “.

    Experts stated that further forensic testing was required to validate the claims of the ” relic, “ but were prevented to do so by Sr. Filmus, who had taken the blonde relic with him to study for a month or more ” under intensive study at night, in the privacy of my home. ”

    Aug 18th, 2014 - 09:44 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • LEPRecon

    Justin

    It doesn't matter what this document says. It doesn't matter if it is genuine.

    What Argentine fails to understand is that the UN Charter (which they signed of their own free will) trumps any previous treaties or documents.

    So even if the British had usurped Argentine territory 200 years ago it still wouldn't trump the UN Charter and the FACTS that the people of the Falklands have the right to determine their own future.

    If it did, then the whole of the America's would have to empty and the land and resources handed over to the remaining indigenous populations.

    These documents are not meant to make a case for Argentina - they have none, and their government knows it. They're just meant to distract the general public from the major disaster that Argentina is becoming, and give the government breathing space to clear out what little wealth is left and leg it for foreign shores.

    Most Argentines are so brainwashed that they honestly believe that if...just if they had the Falklands then all of their problems would go away and Argentina would immediately turn into a Utopia. What they fail to realise that should they ever get hold of the islands they would ruin them, just like they've ruined Argentina itself.

    And then the Argentine government would dust off one of it's other sovereignty claims - such as over Uruguay, Paraguay or Chile, and start the process all over again.

    Aug 18th, 2014 - 10:17 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • reality check

    Of course it's genuine, said Daniel Filmus.

    Then why is it written in Biro? said John Bull?

    Ah ah! Exclaimed a jubilant Filmus, exactly so, that great Argentinr invention! proving its authenticity, now when can we have the islands?????

    When you produce the 200 year old Biro, replied John Bull!!!

    Aug 19th, 2014 - 04:50 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • 4n conTroll

    Comment removed by the editor.

    Aug 19th, 2014 - 04:52 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • reality check

    Why don't you fuck off and get some psychiatric help, your constant morbid celebration of death and destruction is beginning to freak people out?

    What are you doing, jacking off as you troll for it?

    Sick little turd!!!!

    Aug 19th, 2014 - 04:58 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • 4n conTroll

    When the floods in La Plata last year, you all had a public orgy!

    So please, spare me the Anglo morality (Pecksniffianism), when you all celebrate everytime a natural disaster strikes Argentina, or when a train crashes, or when an indian is killed.

    Aug 19th, 2014 - 05:00 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • imoyaro

    Pray do continue. It merely accentuates what people already know about you. Meanwhile, in Boludoland... ;)

    Aug 19th, 2014 - 05:12 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • 4n conTroll

    Mendoza is doing fine. Don't worry. 100 times better place than this hole I'm watching on tv right now. Saint Luis?

    Not very original. They copied the name of an Argentine city.

    Aug 19th, 2014 - 05:17 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • imoyaro

    Actually, blame the French, it was their town... ;)

    Aug 19th, 2014 - 05:28 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • golfcronie

    @39
    English translation: MENDOZA = Dozy Men and you are one of them.

    Aug 19th, 2014 - 07:11 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • SebaSvtz

    Here we go again...
    - Chile did what was useful for Chile back in 1982, period. I don´t see why we could have expected them to be on our side if we were about to attack them in 1978.
    - The UK needed a hand and grabbed all available help. Nothing to cry about.
    - We could complain, however, about Pinochet´s double standard back in the day; if he was with the Brits, then why not simply saying that? Not to mention how many Argentinian lives may have being lost thanks to Chile´s contribution.
    - Even Brit sources don´t look at that joint campaign as something to be proud about: back in the day Chile was ruled by a dictatorship which also killed some of their own people and which committed a terror-style attack in the US. To be honest, I find Thatcher´s tea-party with Pinochet in 1998 as quite disgusting.
    - Topics like these are only useful to fuel the ultra-nationalist Chilean feelings, deeply ingrained after years of Pinochet-style brainwashing. Just take a look at how some Chileans make fun of Argentinian KIA servicemen.
    - It´s true that J. de San Martin had more friends and support from Chile than from Buenos Aires.
    - It´s depressing to see how so many Chileans still see Argentina as a threat rather than a partner.

    To sum up, topics like these make me feel like we are not moving a inch forward ... :(

    Aug 19th, 2014 - 11:27 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • 4n conTroll

    @42

    The Chileans and the British don't want human rights, self-determination, etc, for Argentines. They want to deny them to us. In fact, they want to engage in expansionism and take away territory from us.

    Not worth having any sort of relations with them.

    Uruguay and Brazil are heading in the same boat.

    Aug 19th, 2014 - 02:00 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • SebaSvtz

    (sorry MPress, my post @ 43 was not meant to be posted here) but in a different thread)

    Back on topic ... highly doubtful that J. de San Martin may have had those islands in mind at any time. I bet this is just another poor attempt to build a background for the claim.

    Aug 19th, 2014 - 02:07 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • 4n conTroll

    @44

    Forget the Faklands, Chile, and The UK.

    Just arrest any of them that enter Argentine soil.

    Aug 19th, 2014 - 02:14 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • JustinKuntz

    Just out of curiousity have they made a scan of this available for researchers?

    Aug 19th, 2014 - 06:04 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Briton

    First they have to get past our nuclear missiles ,
    and the underground base,

    2nd, they have to find something that floats without sinking, before they get there,
    3rdly they have to find the loyal conniving bloggers who have now run away, as they don't feel like swimming,

    and finally, being skint / broke / empty , destitute , how are they going to fund this great ambition to retake the Falkland's

    lets face it, ==its easier and cheaper to just argue on here...lololol

    Aug 19th, 2014 - 06:22 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ilsen

    SideShow Bob anyone?

    Must be making an appearance soon...

    Aug 19th, 2014 - 09:45 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • 4n conTroll

    Comment removed by the editor.

    Aug 20th, 2014 - 12:28 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • imoyaro

    @49
    Truly a tale to warm the cockles of one's heart. Reminds me of Argentina! ;)

    http://mla-s2-p.mlstatic.com/la-mazorca-poema-en-versos-por-hilarion-abaca-84-MLA4639813698_072013-F.jpg

    Aug 20th, 2014 - 01:38 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • 4n conTroll

    @50

    I warned Yankeeboy and Captain Poppy that ISIS was going after the USA, and I literally used the phrase “they will drown you in your blood”, many month ago.

    Chillingly, my predictions have come to fruition.

    I also warned these two NorthAmoans that a racial war was coming to the USA. THat is coming to fruition too.

    I also told them the dollar would collapse in 2015.

    Stay tuned.

    Aug 20th, 2014 - 01:42 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • imoyaro

    Anything you say kid, anything you say... ;)

    Aug 20th, 2014 - 01:44 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • 4n conTroll

    Comment removed by the editor.

    Aug 20th, 2014 - 01:51 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • imoyaro

    @53
    http://www.executedtoday.com/images/Fantomas.jpg

    Aug 20th, 2014 - 02:06 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • 4n conTroll

    One day you may have the bravery to say something of substance.

    Aug 20th, 2014 - 02:14 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ilsen

    Popcorn anyone?

    Aug 20th, 2014 - 07:59 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Briton

    coke ? Pepsi ?

    Aug 20th, 2014 - 07:41 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • 4n conTroll

    I got all three, eating and quaffing. Watching CNN international and the riots in NorthAmoland.

    Thank you for asking.

    Aug 21st, 2014 - 03:14 am - Link - Report abuse 0

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