MercoPress. South Atlantic News Agency
'A contempt of court does not apply to sovereign Argentina', says Capitanich
Anticipating what seems an imminent order of contempt-of-court by US Judge Thomas Griesa following Argentine President Cristina Fernández decision to push a bill to change the payment jurisdiction to Buenos Aires, Cabinet Chief Jorge Capitanich pointed out that as a “sovereign country” Argentina cannot end up in contempt despite Griesa’s warnings. Read full article
Comments
Disclaimer & comment rulesOf course it doesn't, that's why the court wont be able to seize yor assets, now will they?
Aug 21st, 2014 - 08:16 am - Link - Report abuse 0Whilst I am no supporter of the government, it does seem to me quite right that a sovereign country cannot be held in contempt of a unilateral court in another country. As for a US court sending bailiffs into another country to seize assets, what an international incident that would be.
Aug 21st, 2014 - 08:41 am - Link - Report abuse 0@2 - There did sign away their sovereign immunity so, in the case of the bond dispute and actions resulting from it or courts orders as a result of it, they CAN NOT rely on sovereign immunity, as they signed it away.
Aug 21st, 2014 - 09:13 am - Link - Report abuse 0Secondly, no-one is suggesting that bailiffs will enter Argentina and seize assets. They will take assets based in the jurisdiction of the court order (i.e. US)
They've been absolutely wrong all the way through this process. This is no different.
Aug 21st, 2014 - 10:18 am - Link - Report abuse 0My guess is Griesa has some of the best and brightest working on how to punish Argentina for their intransigence.
It could be as simple as fining them U$10MM/day until a deal is reached.
At some point really soon the US State Dept is going to have to have a little chat with the Marxists and let them know who's boss.
We South Americans we must impose barriers to entry of speculative capital, especially those that feed the stock exchanges and derivatives.
Aug 21st, 2014 - 11:13 am - Link - Report abuse 0Speculators are creating an environment hostile to the interests of Peru. They are artificially inflating the Peruvian stock exchanges that can pose serious risks to liquidity in the domestic financial system when that money out of the market shares of Peru.
We are seeing the same crime happens in so many nations, including Brazil, practiced by Western speculators based on Wall Street and Hong Kong. Peru careful because you're the flavor of the month.
The dollar is a currency without ballast, so he himself is already a big problem. In my opinion the dollar is not a currency that can be converted freely.
Argentina has made decisions very correct. Congratulations!
Well Brasso supports them, so they MUST be right!
Aug 21st, 2014 - 11:37 am - Link - Report abuse 0Ha, ha, ha, (you get the idea, I can't be arsed for any more).
Did CaptainDismal get his job for being the stupidist person in TDC? No, he is the third one, TMBOA and Kickitoff clearly outrank him in that race.
DO these fucking morons even know that EVERYONE who opens a business is a speculator?
Aug 21st, 2014 - 12:44 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Someone shoot that brasshole idiot.
Do these socialist think that foreigners will enter their country and create jobs because people need jobs......profit motive......get over it.
Chile and Colombia will seen be the new leaders of SA. They seem to find a happy balance between socialism and capitalism that works for them and foreign investment.
Dear rotting roadkill,
Aug 21st, 2014 - 01:00 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You have defiled and debased your own sovereignty and by your own seal - subrogated it to the laws of New York.
Do you now dispute that that is the seal of rotting roadkill that is affixed to the bonds?
Or that the seal of rotting roadkill isn't valid?
If so, that means that rotting roadkill's sovereignty is violate.
Singer says do this!
Aug 21st, 2014 - 01:51 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Singer says do that!
Singer do this...........do that!
Argentina.....you're out.
And.......Christina......please clean your pants or at least wear an adult diaper.
@4
Aug 21st, 2014 - 02:25 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Oh yeah, a fine is surely going to bring Argentina to the payment table....
I guess it's clear IQ is declining in the USA too!
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2730791/Are-STUPID-Britons-people-IQ-decline.html
@2. Tell us, Dennis, why is argieland appearing before a New York court? How many other countries' courts has it appeared before?
Aug 21st, 2014 - 03:24 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Why do you think argieland doesn't wave two fingers in the air, sod off and do what it likes?
One reason is that argieland signed away its sovereign immunity, in respect of the bonds, when it issued them under NY law. Another is that there is more than one way to skin a cat. If I recall correctly, a Nevada court has already authorised NML to investigate the companies of a certain Kirchnerite swindler and money launderer. I've little doubt that lawyers and courts all around the world are watching this NML case against argieland with considerable interest. Argieland has numerous outstanding judgements against it and they will be looking to see how Judge Griesa cracks argieland wide open. All the people that argieland owes money to will promptly jump on the wagon. In real terms, argieland is a corpse walking. It remains to be seen how long it will take to drive the final stake through its heart.
@5. Have you yet admitted how old you are? If you look around the world, honestly for a change, where is the power? Russia is already finding out what Europe and North America can do to it. Although Putin lies, blusters and puffs his pigeon chest out. China is remarkably quiet. Iran are a bunch of religious fruitcakes. They like “war”. You must have seen the pictures of B-52s “unloading” over Vietnam. Imagine them unloading over Tehran. South America is a pipsqueak. Probably more squeak than pip. Use your imagination. Imagine yourself back in the Stone Age.
@10. Oh no. Heaven forbid. But just think. Argieland can't borrow money. And when no respectable stock market will touch argie bonds with a bargepole? Just refusing to list them. When no-one will buy any argie bonds at any price? When no-one wants to buy your crap goods? When no-one wants to sell you anything? Why do you think sanctions work?
@9
Aug 21st, 2014 - 04:14 pm - Link - Report abuse 0So now I get it.. you are in the vanguard of the new British Lower IQ movement right?
Explains it all quite neatly.
Moderator - can this idiot @12 above be excluded from mercopress?
Aug 21st, 2014 - 04:40 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@13
Aug 21st, 2014 - 04:42 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Opposing views threaten your life frame?
Umm. I gotta just tell ya for your own good...
Aug 21st, 2014 - 04:47 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Its NEVER, EVER is a good idea to piss of a judge handleing your case.
If you don't like what the judge decides, then appeal it.
But NEVER, EVER place yourself in contempt.
Trust me on this...
@15
Aug 21st, 2014 - 04:51 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You forget that Argentina is not an American citizen and could give a F___ about pissing off some senile corrupt judge bought by Singer.
And it confirms everything I have said about US “justice” that judges there are subjective and not objective, to the whims of the behavior of the parties involved.
You confirm what I have always shown with evidence, US judicial system is a complete corrupt embarrassment.
You are too ignorant to comprehend the difficulty in buying a judge from a democratic and developed nation, so I ask you this.........lay out your case and prove he was bought?
Aug 21st, 2014 - 05:12 pm - Link - Report abuse 0One thing is a given with tobi.......everything he says the exact opposite happens. To be not only living in his momma's apron shirts, but to be poor and living in Argentina....MAN!
Tobi allow me to mail you a razorblade.......oops.....I forgot....no imports.
@17
Aug 21st, 2014 - 05:14 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Prove a bought Judge? Why don't you prove a bought Argentine judge??
Come on prove it!
That why you spent 12 years in court and are trying to take it to the ICJ, cos you don't give a f..... About a senile American judge?
Aug 21st, 2014 - 05:14 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Looks like it, doesn't it?
PMSL at that gem!
@19
Aug 21st, 2014 - 05:17 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You utter FOOL, what would Argentina have gained by not going to court!
WE GAINED 12 YEARS!! That was the point!
I will when you show me the accusation that I made against that said Argentine judge.....fair enough?
Aug 21st, 2014 - 05:18 pm - Link - Report abuse 0In the meantime make you case....AND as I said you are clueless not only about democracy but also the developed world.
@21
Aug 21st, 2014 - 05:21 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You have made that accusation against the ENTIRE SYSTEM, not just one judge! And way before I said anything about Griesa.
So, I am waiting for your incontrovertible proof.
You gained nothing, you lost, again!
Aug 21st, 2014 - 05:22 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Griesa, “Elvis, you and Cretina are hereby sentenced to thirty days incarceration for contempt. Rotting roadkill is of course still in default and shall within this time frame cure this breech. Is that clear?”
Aug 21st, 2014 - 05:37 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Elvis, “You honor, I can do thirty days standing on my head!”
Cretina, “But Judgey Wudgy, I never thought that it would come to this!”
Griesa, “Elvis, If that is indeed the case, let me give you another thirty days to get back on your feet.”
Cretina, “Judge, I never really new Elvis or trusted him. He was thrust on me by the Socialists. In fact - just between you and me, Judge - I never really liked him. Uhh do you think that I might be elgible for one of those ankle bracelet programs, your Honnnnnor?”
Griesa, “Cretina, from the looks of the size of those ankles -no. Bailiff, call the next case.”
Elvis, “But your Honnnnnnnnnnnnorrr, I'll never survive two months without cheesy porteno pizza, choripan and Quilmes! Help me! Amnesty International, wherrrrrrrrrrrre arrrrrrrrrrre you?”
Tune in for the next episode of “The Bonds Are Now Due”.
@23
Aug 21st, 2014 - 05:44 pm - Link - Report abuse 0More than a decade without paying? Gain enough.
Seeing Singer and Co lose a decade of their lives without seeing a cent? Priceless.
#22 In the word of Missourians....SHOW ME MY ACCUSATION?
Aug 21st, 2014 - 05:44 pm - Link - Report abuse 0In the meantime prove yours?
Cap. Poppy, Sir: 4ncntroll is a troll and a fascist.
Aug 21st, 2014 - 05:55 pm - Link - Report abuse 0DO NOT FEED THE TROLLS!
It is OK to feed a fascist - but not if he is also a T R O L L!
Don't feed the trolls.
Don't feed the trolls.
Don't feed the trolls.
Don't feed the trolls.
Don't feed the trolls.
Don't feed the trolls.
Don't feed the trolls.
Don't feed the trolls.
Don't feed the trolls.
Don't feed the trolls.
feeling weak
Don't feed the trolls.
Don't feed the trolls.
Don't feed the trolls.
must repeat
Don't feed the trolls.
Don't feed the trolls.
Don't feed the trolls.
So anyone who does not agree with you 100% on everything is a troll?
Aug 21st, 2014 - 05:59 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Typical.
So you are now stipulating to the fascist label???
Aug 21st, 2014 - 06:01 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@29
Aug 21st, 2014 - 06:08 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I'm not a capitalist. So not fascist.
This is fascism: modern Europe and North AMerica (Japan, South Korea, Singapore, and Hong Kong have been like this for decades now... then you wonder why all the suicides).
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/how-your-boss-will-run-your-life-in-a-few-years-165905475.html?.tsrc=_news
“You probably won’t be surprised to hear that big companies could end up so powerful and influential they morph into “ministates” that fill the void when government is unable to provide essential services. Companies will also use sensors and other gizmos to monitor employees around the clock. And workers will mostly acquiesce to this digital leash, in exchange for job security, decent pay and important benefits.”
THAT is fascism.
lol
Aug 21st, 2014 - 06:13 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Well the truth silenced you.
Aug 21st, 2014 - 06:17 pm - Link - Report abuse 0#13 and #27
Aug 21st, 2014 - 06:19 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The deeply disturbed mentally challenged adolescent troll suffering from a severe multiple personality disorder you speak of is registered under several Mercopress identities. He routinely posts conversing with his self using multiple personalities.
@33
Aug 21st, 2014 - 06:22 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Why don't you prove it?
Foreend, you are a troll and a fascist and a demagogue but you have certain entertainment value as I never cease to be amazed at the endless stream of incomprehensible jibberish that you continually spout. From a sheer volume level, you dominate the discourse with a never ending emanation of nonsense. I have gleaned through reams of this garbage looking for some miniscule hint of underlying intelligence - but find nothing.
Aug 21st, 2014 - 06:41 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Once again, you dominate the horizon from a perspective of volume and letters entered digitally devoid of value.
So, for this acheivement - the creation of the largest literary garbage dump in a forum -
Your Yankee Amigios - SALUTE YOU!
Please join me in saluting 4ncnTROLL for this singular accomplishment (or don't).
He wasn't talking about you, it's the other one he was referring to.
Aug 21st, 2014 - 06:41 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Then again? It could have been the other one.
It's hard to keep track.
Who are you anyway???
33. You so funny!
Aug 21st, 2014 - 06:46 pm - Link - Report abuse 0#34 he probably could prove it if all of you came in for a group therapy session. I believe all of you would benefit from it.
Aug 21st, 2014 - 06:55 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Pops
Aug 21st, 2014 - 07:04 pm - Link - Report abuse 0That's a cracker!!!!!
I'm still pissing myself with laughter.
TY I do think that TTT or the truthPAtroll (or whomever it was) deserted him. This one was Chinese if you recall (apparently he does not).
Aug 21st, 2014 - 07:08 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@10 Troll
Aug 21st, 2014 - 07:24 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“I guess it's clear IQ is declining in the USA too!”
The Shanghai Academic Ranking of World Universities 2014 is out today. In the top 40 are 28 from the US, 5 from the UK and only 7 from everywhere else (no S.American in the top 100). Maybe best if you don't throw intelligence insults around.
On another thread, Elaine made a very valid observation that the individual deserves our pity and that it concerns me that we might even harm his fragile mental stability. At least he's stopped posting with Chinese characters...
Aug 21st, 2014 - 07:24 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I'm just going to politely ignore the boy.
@41
Aug 21st, 2014 - 07:28 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Breaking news to you: amount of university or study does not equate intelligence.
Try again.
@ 2 DennisA who wrote: “it does seem to me quite right that a sovereign country cannot be held in contempt of a unilateral court in another country”
Aug 21st, 2014 - 07:37 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Read Argentina's waiver of sovereignity in:
Republic of Argentina v NML Capital Ltd [2010] EWCA Civ 41 (04 February 2010)
Appendix 3
The terms of the bonds
Excerpts: ”…… The republic has in the fiscal agency agreement irrevocably submitted to the jurisdiction of any New York state or federal court sitting in the Borough of Manhattan … and the courts of the republic of Argentina ('the specified courts') over any suit, action or proceeding against it or its properties, assets or revenues with respect to the securities of this series or the fiscal agency agreement (a 'related proceeding') … to the extent that in any such jurisdiction there shall be attributed such an immunity, the republic has hereby irrevocably agreed not to claim and has irrevocably waived such immunity to the fullest extent permitted by the laws of such jurisdiction …”
Read the full waiver in: http://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWCA/Civ/2010/41.html
#41
Aug 21st, 2014 - 07:48 pm - Link - Report abuse 0One of the serious deficiencies in Chile has been of a lack of emphasis for education, which the government has been working hard to resolve.
Recent university rankings, in Latin America are eye opening, Argentina has taken a free fall in positions with Brazil now the overall leader, but with Chile now taking the number one ranking with the Universidad Católica de Chile.
(Brazil has 5 universities in the top 10, Chile 2, Mexico 2 and Colombia 1)
Only fools dismiss higher education for a nations progress.
http://www.topuniversities.com/university-rankings/latin-american-university-rankings/2014#sorting=rank+region=+country=+faculty=+stars=false+search=
@ 45 Chicureo you are trying to reason with, and teach reason to an idiot child named Tobias.
Aug 21st, 2014 - 08:00 pm - Link - Report abuse 0A job for Sisyfos (roll it up a hill, only to watch it roll back down, and to repeat this action forever).
Ignore the child, who is an 'idiot savant' whose only capacity is to write English.
#46 Don Alberto,
Aug 21st, 2014 - 08:14 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Is the imbecile really a member of La Cámpora?
His American style English seems a bit too good for his obvious lack of education.
I also agree about trying to reason with idiots is a fools errand.
Thanks,
I don't think TTT is La Campora at all. He has said many times that he doesn't trust the current Argentine government and he thinks the Falklands should remain as they are. So, surely not one of Fax Max's Kirchner Youth Movement.
Aug 21st, 2014 - 09:30 pm - Link - Report abuse 0He is just angry at the world and pretending to be fighting for Argentina gives him a reason to live,
Do we know what happened in court today?
I expose Kicillof's lies, and idiot child Tobias is unable to understand and tries to divert to something else - as usual.
Aug 21st, 2014 - 09:37 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@48
Aug 21st, 2014 - 09:49 pm - Link - Report abuse 0New Doctor Who on Saturday. Peter Capaldi!
:-)
Elaine.
Aug 21st, 2014 - 09:56 pm - Link - Report abuse 0He did not hold them in contempt. Declared the move illegal and warned that any “entity” aiding Argentina in the matter would also be held in contempt of his order.
I think he is waiting to see them actually breach it nbefore taking action. From a legal standpoint he can show that he has issued numerous warnings, some might say too many.
Jorge Capitanich lies like all Argentine politicians, as his country agreed in advance of their loans to be bound by New York's judgements. Therefore they have have waivered their sovereign immunity. But it is par for the course as this country has a a lamentable history of breaching all contracts and treaties since their inception.
Aug 21st, 2014 - 10:29 pm - Link - Report abuse 0As the US chargé d'affaires Francis Baylies wrote about Argentina in 1832 “...the US should sign no treaty ...for we would abide by it, and they would consider the violation no greater offense than a lie told by a schoolboy...”
http://www.latinamericanstudies.org/argentina/rosas.pdf
United Nations and the Rule of Law
“For the United Nations, the rule of law refers to a principle of governance in which all persons, institutions and entities, public and private, including the State itself, are accountable to laws that are publicly promulgated, equally enforced and independently adjudicated, and which are consistent with international human rights norms and standards. It requires, as well, measures to ensure adherence to the principles of supremacy of law, equality before the law, accountability to the law, ....”
Report of the Secretary-General
http://www.latinamericanstudies.org/argentina/rosas.pdf
“amount of university or study does not equate intelligence.”
Aug 21st, 2014 - 10:32 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Finally he realises.
@53
Aug 22nd, 2014 - 04:19 am - Link - Report abuse 0Right, but the problem is that your inflexible and limited mind now thinks you have me in some corner, because of course the intimation of your post is that I'm STUPID even though I study a lot.
As I always have said, education does not foster intelligence, it allows it to manifest itself.
Which explain me.
“'A contempt of court does not apply to sovereign Argentina', says Capitanich”
Aug 22nd, 2014 - 06:31 am - Link - Report abuse 0Ha ha, the convicted Defendant saying “ you're doing this all wrong!”
Yeah, sure...
Don't put words in my mouth.
Aug 22nd, 2014 - 06:37 am - Link - Report abuse 0I never said you were stupid. However you aren't intelligent. Being good with languages means you are nothing more than good with languages.
As I've said you are an idiot savant. Your autism manifests itself as a talent for languages but not for much else. You lack an inability to deal with social nuance and have no ability to deal with your obvious disappointment in what you country has become, so you evade any possible suggestion of critical though, analysis or comment on that and instead hide behind platitudes and deflection.
56 Anglotino
Aug 22nd, 2014 - 06:49 am - Link - Report abuse 0if he didn't put words in people's mouths, he couldn't play 'Victim ' so readily, and he could not contrive an argument.
He's never been able to argue.
Aug 22nd, 2014 - 07:05 am - Link - Report abuse 0@54 “As I always have said, education does not foster intelligence, it allows it to manifest itself. Which explain me.”
Aug 22nd, 2014 - 07:22 am - Link - Report abuse 0This doesn't say much for the institutions where you allege you study as you seem to only possess the intelligence of a fly! ¡Aparentemente su cerebro es del tamaño de una mosca!
Comment removed by the editor.
Aug 22nd, 2014 - 07:44 am - Link - Report abuse 0@60
Aug 22nd, 2014 - 09:58 am - Link - Report abuse 0Is that English?
@60 I believe he said something to the effect of “In truth, that guy is only a thug.” It's Japanese.
Aug 22nd, 2014 - 12:30 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@62
Aug 22nd, 2014 - 03:15 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Thug is too strong a word, “punk,” or even “juvenile delinquent” is more like it. ;)
@20. YOU GAINED 12 years? You really are an imbecile. Spent 12 YEARS in front of a New York court? How much have you spent on legal fees? Just as a start. Who's the FOOL?
Aug 22nd, 2014 - 03:24 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@22. Here's a thought. There was supposed to be an investigation into the Kirchner millions. What happened? Don't need anymore. Prima facie, Kirchner was “installed” on bought votes. There's video evidence. Who “ended” the investigation? A Kirchner-appointed a judge.
@30. My boss won't be running my life. Work that one out!
@34. Self-evident, dick brain. Would a court need it proved that the sky was up in the air?
@43. Neither does parroting.
@54. Actually, girlie, education comes from marrying intelligence with study and reality. Seems you're 2/3rds short. Never mind. Get married. Men are used to know-it-all wives. As long as she can cook, clean and get down on her knees when required. And your capabilities? Can you cook? Do you have a spare “slot” when you can wiggle your bootie?
Presumably as a former Spanish colony Argentinas legal system is based upon Civil Law and Roman Law, I don't know much about Roman & Civil systems but the US law is based upon the British system of common law where the courts are viewed as having authority over both the government in general and the officers and elected officials of the government.
Aug 22nd, 2014 - 06:15 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I think you will find that Bill Clinton was found in contempt of a US court while a serving president and I am aware of the British and Australian a Governments both being found in contempt by their own courts.
As a result there is nothing to prevent the Argentine government (not the country) or Fernandez-Kirchener, Kilicof et al personally being found in contempt.
They may not be able to enforce that judgement in Argentina, but they may be able to enforce it (with fines, asset seizures or arrests) in countries that practice a common law based system.
Send the Marines! Send the Marines!
Aug 25th, 2014 - 02:29 am - Link - Report abuse 0Commenting for this story is now closed.
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