MercoPress. South Atlantic News Agency
Argentina describes Griesa as 'ignorant' and lacking knowledge on democratic institutions
The Argentine government again blasted Judge Thomas Griesa for declaring 'illegal' the bill sent to Congress referred to the country's debt and creditors, and said the magistrate “ignores national sovereignty” and “ignores how democratic institutions function”. Read full article
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Disclaimer & comment rulesTalk about free entertainment. This guy is a gift that just keeps on giving. He ought to be wearing grease paint.
Aug 22nd, 2014 - 07:57 am - Link - Report abuse 0Argentina has yet to grasp the distinction between sovereignity and impunity.
Aug 22nd, 2014 - 08:02 am - Link - Report abuse 0Argentine democracy, the best that money can buy.
Aug 22nd, 2014 - 08:07 am - Link - Report abuse 0Figuratively and literally.
Cristina and her toy-boy Axel have lost the plot.
Aug 22nd, 2014 - 08:25 am - Link - Report abuse 0This arrogant yank judge should explain why his law should apply to English people. He should explain how English people in England are held hostage to yank Wall St robber barons. An English judge is going to fix. This needs to move to Luxembourg where there is proper law not yank imperial law.
Aug 22nd, 2014 - 08:39 am - Link - Report abuse 0“This arrogant yank judge should explain why his law should apply to English people.”
Aug 22nd, 2014 - 08:43 am - Link - Report abuse 0Because Argentina issued then under New York law and not British law.
Intentional baiting of the American Judge Griesa.
Aug 22nd, 2014 - 08:48 am - Link - Report abuse 0Imagine if this was an American in government calling an Argentine jurist ignorant. The Argentines would be wide-eyed, neck veins bulging, waiving fingers, and spitting blood. Just like the picture above.
Griesa seems wise enough not to respond to such comments, but the CFK kleptocrats and lackeys are getting closer to a contempt charge.
Perhaps that is what they desire. Blame the default on the Yanquis.
again, a failure to understand that when the judge is talking about legality he is talking about wioth reference to the bonds, not conceptual universal legality.
Aug 22nd, 2014 - 09:18 am - Link - Report abuse 0Interestingly, if they manage to get rid of the RUFO clause, the bondholders will expect argentina to pay out. Argentina won't pay out and that will only leave the bondholders the option to acellerate the bonds...
at 6
Aug 22nd, 2014 - 09:19 am - Link - Report abuse 0Not true. Read the contract. The law is English. Ignorant yank.
“total ignorance on the functioning of democratic institutions”
Aug 22nd, 2014 - 09:27 am - Link - Report abuse 0Surely that is the perfect description of Argentine politics for most of its history. Argentina is a “cargo cult” democracy- going through rituals they don't understand in the hope that this time they will work.
#9 Hep you ignorant asshole.....Anglo is an Aussie.
Aug 22nd, 2014 - 10:32 am - Link - Report abuse 0This is funny......Argentina saying Griesa does not understand democratic institutions. A country that subjugates it's judiciary, subjugates the media, controls every aspect of the economy, tried to change the constitution the get asslips a third term AND....a country who's political party in power depends on the poor to stay in power with vote buying.......yes........kissifoff....you tell Griesa he does not understand democratic institutions and how they work.
Kickitoff has once again demonstrated his lack of intellect in misunderstanding the situation.
Aug 22nd, 2014 - 11:08 am - Link - Report abuse 0Perhaps he looks big to the morons in TDC by bad mouthing a JUDGE, not a Magistrate you twats, he is going down a road he will surely regret.
If he is lucky he will be spending a few months in NY as the ‘guest’ of Griesa; I do hope so.
is it just me, or could this not be solved by just paying what you owe.
Aug 22nd, 2014 - 11:16 am - Link - Report abuse 0I mean, short and simple, you borrowed x amount, you tricked 93% to take a huge loss and a few held out. They sold on for an amount more than was on offer, but less than the full amount and investors bought with the hope to get the full amount.
Argentina should be glad there was only 7%.
Just pay, its costing me in popcorn, Plus all this laughing the neighbours are beginning to think I just watch comedy all day, oops hang on, I watch Argentina, so perhaps they would be right
@3. What would any argie know about “democratic institutions”? Let's start with the basics. Everyone knows that votes are bought and sold in argieland. I expect the video evidence is still out there. Oh, yes, here it is https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BCsCNHDSUPI
Aug 22nd, 2014 - 11:16 am - Link - Report abuse 0Just how “democratic” is an institution based on such vote-rigging. Note that the video refers to La Kirchner. Where are all the public investigations? Where are the “law makers” being kicked out of office because they bought their positions? There would certainly be investigations and “repeat elections” in the UK and the US. Could it just be a recognition that argieland would never have a government. What's the problem? It doesn't have one now.
@5 & 9. Strange. Weren't the bonds issued under New York law? Isn't that why argieland is in front of a New York court? I suppose that it's just about conceivable that certain features might be subject to English law if they weren't provided for under New York law. But I come back to asking why argieland is in front of a New York court? I think you're getting desperate to get your hands on granny's money. If there is a granny.
And do feel free to post a link to the contract. Highlight the parts that you say mean that it's subject to English law. More links to the relevant English law. Identify the English law that says it overrides a ruling from a competent court.
“………….said the magistrate “ignores national sovereignty” and “ignores how democratic institutions function”.
Aug 22nd, 2014 - 11:45 am - Link - Report abuse 0What he means is that the Judge’s decisions based on the rule of law are not agreeable to the Argentine government, but that has nothing to do with argentina’s precious sov-er-enity.
‘Democratic institutions!!’ What would this crowd know about democratic institutions, a country that is just emerging from the darkness of a brutal dictatorship a regime that murdered its own citizens in the most appalling ways and now cloaks itself in a veneer of democracy? They have the hide to question the bona fides of one of the world’s great democracies.
They really do live in a different (awful) universe!
¿“Argentina describes Griesa as 'ignorant' and lacking knowledge on democratic institutions”?...¿Who is Argentina? ¿Who spoke in the name of Argentina?...you should make the efford to check in web and read the posts and comments of argentiniena bloggers !!!
Aug 22nd, 2014 - 12:22 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Kicillof is funny.
Aug 22nd, 2014 - 12:27 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Have a look at Argentina's ranking in this and then try to keep a straight face that
Kicillof has the gall to pontificate on democracy and the rule of law.
http://worldjusticeproject.org/rule-of-law-index
The low rankings are what Kicillof stands for. Hypocrisy knows no bounds within the Argentine government. But while the ill-educated masses within Argentina have been brainwashed into believing this, the world doesn't fall for it.
And the Argentine government is flummoxed that no matter what they say or do, they can't seem to change Griesa's mind.
They really have no coping mechanism for a judiciary they can't influence or meddle with.
http://www.bloomberg.com/video/argentina-may-devalue-peso-again-G6_Vbiz2SWmuGSC_rArNUA.html
Aug 22nd, 2014 - 01:02 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Argentina may devalue Peso again...
Axel Kicillof is another who has never had to work in the real world.
Aug 22nd, 2014 - 01:11 pm - Link - Report abuse 018. May devalue? There's no “may” about it.
Aug 22nd, 2014 - 01:14 pm - Link - Report abuse 0They will absolutely devalue they have no choice.
WTO ruling today, Arg gov't predicts it will affect U$5-8B in exports.
That will put them negative for the year.
Oh gosh I love watching this.
http://www.buenosairesherald.com/article/167768/govt-calls-congress-to-condemn-griesas-imperialist-statements
Aug 22nd, 2014 - 01:15 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Are they sounding more and more like DPRK every day.
Wow so now the yanks are imperialist.
Aug 22nd, 2014 - 01:47 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Imperialist? Ffs, the biggest drawback between the UK and the US was always colonial policy. No American Government ever agreed with that policy and they publicly stated so, on every occasion. They still do!
And before the Malvanistas start going on about the their involvement in the Falklands, they did their utmost and more, to resolve the situation before the shooting started.
The intelligence and aid they supplied, was supplied because they are our friends and that is what a friend does when the other has a problem. That's what friendship means.
We have the same relationship with Chile, admittedly to a lesser degree and we would once again like to have the same relationship with Argentina, but sadly, that's not going to happen any time soon. Now is it?
It seems that someone has been trained in accordance with standard Christians In Action operating procedure,
Aug 22nd, 2014 - 01:58 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Pretend to listen.
Deny charges.
Make counter accusations.
Discredit key figures.
Ascribe motives.
Feign victimization.
Extend deadlines.
Be identified with those you oppress.
Elvis, were you on the payroll at one time? Did you receive a stipend? Who was your handler? What assurancse have you received post Cretina?
The feelings generated by this whole pantomime are similar to those one feels at a funeral. Sad that tangible decency, goodwill and common sense have just gone forever.
Aug 22nd, 2014 - 02:00 pm - Link - Report abuse 0To use American terms, it's Phsycholy 101.
Aug 22nd, 2014 - 02:03 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The best form of defence is attack.
Thinks gone quiet. Perhaps even he's beginning to get a bit embarrassed.
Aug 22nd, 2014 - 03:12 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Language issues it seems.
Aug 22nd, 2014 - 03:34 pm - Link - Report abuse 0BritshFumbler seems to think that since the contract was written in English, then it must be adjudicated under English law. While that might have once been the case, it hasn't been since 1776. (no offense my british cousins).
And again, perhaps a translation error occured.
The judge did not actually use the word “illegal” in reference to the legislation the Argies are going to pass.
What the judge actually said was “pass whatever laws you bastards like. It won't mean SHIT in my court”. Well... maybe not exactly that... but close enough for the polite interpreter to say “um... he said it would be illegal.”
Think is posting under another name and got confues one post when he, under the new name referred to kissitoff as...“my boy Kicilloff”
Aug 22nd, 2014 - 03:58 pm - Link - Report abuse 0http://www.eubusiness.com/news-eu/wto-argentina-us.xgp
Aug 22nd, 2014 - 04:22 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Argentina broke Global Trade Rules - WTO
#28
Aug 22nd, 2014 - 04:25 pm - Link - Report abuse 0He rarely does that, but I ignore his errors as he's very sensitive about making himself a fool.
Griesa is not ignorant. Read the court transcripts, they are out there on the net. He knows EXACTLY what is going on and what he is doing. More ignorant is the fool who is ignorant of the facts that would cause him to question the Marxism he has been indoctrinated with.
Aug 22nd, 2014 - 05:14 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Kicillof is a boy. He has no real business experience and boasts about his ability to hypnotise CFK into believing everything he says. He is a buddy-boy of Fat Max and one of the La Campora gang.
Aug 22nd, 2014 - 05:22 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Seriously, Argentines, are you going to let a twat like Kicillof ruin your future?
My opinion is, for what it is worth, is that Griesa is trying to go out of his way to show fairness under the rule of law.
Aug 22nd, 2014 - 05:32 pm - Link - Report abuse 0In other words, before ruling contempt, he is showing that the other plaintiff has been given every opportunity and more, to avoid it.
Having done so, when he does eventually rule contempt, he can state all avenues were open before that ruling. Clever man I think?
33. My thoughts as well. Few federal judges I know of would exercise as much restraint. I am pretty sure that defendant's counsel is going to have to answer a NY bar inquiry though with regard to the instruction contained in the leaked memo.
Aug 22nd, 2014 - 05:55 pm - Link - Report abuse 0#32Elaine,
Aug 22nd, 2014 - 06:07 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I sure you've read his published CV...
...he's being groomed to lead the new generation in the Peronist movement.
He's perfect from a DPRK point of view and the Pope will not have any influence over his future decisions.
#31,33 and 34
A perfect defense for any judge who suspects that his rulings may be challenged in the future is to be scrupulously fair and tolerant which Griesa has shown.
He's perfect for the role.
Saying that, I think he may very well be aware of the political ramifications that it will cause and that might have an influence on his decision process. I do think, that when it does eventually come, he will use all the legal options at his disposal.
Aug 22nd, 2014 - 06:38 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I think he will uphold the principle of law over politics.
Which I believe is foundation of all democracy.
Well, real democracies that Is!
I suppose that Griesa will, if necessary, sanction Argentina in the mildest and most lenient but legally correct manner as the IMF has done with Argentina in the past. Much of what is decided may very well set legal precedent for future cases.
Aug 22nd, 2014 - 06:56 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Other than property, it's not really clear what a single Federal judge can do in the way of punitive measures. A RICO complaint should probably be filed against those agents acting in concert with rotting roadkill.
Aug 22nd, 2014 - 07:06 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I am not so sure Chicu, In his post as Enrique Massot or whatever it is, he forgot he was not signed on as Think and referred to Kicilloff as “His Boy Kicilloff”.
Aug 22nd, 2014 - 07:48 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Each persona has its own agenda but he's does forget sometimes who he's supposed to be and even where he's supposed to be...
Aug 22nd, 2014 - 07:52 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The biggest slip was saying the sun was coming up in Chubut and posting at 2 -3am our time.
Careful all, making unproved allegations can be perhaps embarrassing.
Aug 22nd, 2014 - 08:57 pm - Link - Report abuse 0...Personally, I suspect THINK and CONQUEROR are actually the same person....
But then again it could be this cheap California wine I've been imbibing...
Calafornian - what happened to 2009 Napa Trinchero Cabernet Sauvignon.
Aug 22nd, 2014 - 09:16 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I can only manage 2012 Cabernet Sauvignon Caarmenere ; )
Most young inexpensive Chilean Carmenere are far better than many of the moderately priced vintage Californian Cabernet Sauvignons I've been sampling. I like the Malbecs available here, but they are a bit overpriced.
Aug 22nd, 2014 - 09:25 pm - Link - Report abuse 0It's a matter of infividual taste, but Malbec for me has lacked depth/intensity of flavour. I seek budget options, and perhaps Argentine ego reflects their price expectations. However Chilean 2012 Cabernet Sauvignon Carmenere, available £5.00 @ Aldi UK is a great buy!
Aug 22nd, 2014 - 09:40 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Yes, those two varieties blend beautifully. I buy in case lots ( no I don't drink that much) but in Chile, you can buy some phenomenal reds for about USD8.50 with the prestigious bottles at USD55.00.
Aug 22nd, 2014 - 09:56 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Aldi is alway with values. Here in California they have Costco, which I wish we had down in Chile...
@43
Aug 22nd, 2014 - 10:04 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Funny you should mention Chilean Carmenere (unblended.) It is my favorite red wine bar none, and the price has always seemed absurdly low, given the quality. It is the last existing example of old Bordeaux wine, whose vines were wiped out in France, and the grapes were grown in Roman times. For somebody with a history background, it's like taking a trip back in time. ;)
Hmm.
Aug 22nd, 2014 - 10:09 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Guinness 2014 has a subtle blend of corky flavours, a little earthy, somewhat bitter, but smooth when cold and clings to the glass all the way down.
Or so I am led to believe.
@46
Aug 22nd, 2014 - 10:11 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Psst...
It was I that mentioned it @42: Brownie points to me please : )
Apologies, Trunce, my statement still stands. ;)
Aug 22nd, 2014 - 10:12 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Trounce is quite correct. For decades, Chilean Carmenere was mis-classified as a wild type of Merlot.
Aug 22nd, 2014 - 10:19 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@49
Aug 22nd, 2014 - 10:23 pm - Link - Report abuse 0: )
@47
If you have facility to view Channel 4 - 18/08 - Food Unwrapped. You will see how nitrogen infused Guiness when passed through a restrictor during pouring -releases its millions of bubbles forming the magical creamy head adding to its unique taste.
Back on topic, it seems the head of the Argentine Supreme Court has a different opinion from Zaffaroni.
Aug 22nd, 2014 - 10:25 pm - Link - Report abuse 0http://www.buenosairesherald.com/article/167771/rulings-must-be-complied-with-in-argentina-everywhere
If you want a really good wine thats pretty cheap try this:
Aug 22nd, 2014 - 10:26 pm - Link - Report abuse 0http://www.lasperdices.com/english/index2.php?page=pagina_04_malbec
I bought 8 cases the other day.
A very under rated wine.
@52
Aug 22nd, 2014 - 10:39 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Brave man. I guess that takes him of CFK's Christmas Card list....
#53
Aug 22nd, 2014 - 11:33 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Looks nice on the internet and seems to be priced in the $13-15 range in California. I'll look for it.
#52
Nice to see some integrity from the Supreme Court. Good for him.
”The Argentine government again blasted Judge Thomas Griesa for declaring 'illegal' the bill sent to Congress referred to the country's debt and creditors, and said the magistrate “ignores national sovereignty” and “ignores how democratic institutions function”.
Aug 23rd, 2014 - 01:00 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Or another way of putting it....
The US judge applying US law in the United States ignores the venal wishes of the corrupt, incompetent Argentinian government.
Well what else did you expect?
“Contempt of the court” could presumably also mean in worst case an international arrest order of President Cristina Kirchner and Economy Minister Kicillof (?)
Aug 23rd, 2014 - 02:28 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Wikipedia says:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contempt_of_court
Contempt of court, often referred to simply as “contempt,” is the offense of being disobedient to or disrespectful towards a court of law and its officers in the form of behavior that opposes or defies authority, justice, and dignity of the court
THE JUDGE MAY IMPOSE FINES AND/OR JAIL TIME UPON ANY PERSON COMMITTING CONTEMPT OF COURT.
Really!
Aug 23rd, 2014 - 05:25 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Griesa would issue an arrest order?
Not a chance...
He will scored the lawyers and may eventually issue mild sanctions, but it will be very carefully handled.
57/58 It's truly a shame that Elvis can't do a little Yankee jail time because I could see him in stripes doing a Spanish, post punk version of “Jailhouse Rock.”
Aug 23rd, 2014 - 05:47 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Griesa will NOT issue an arrest order nor will he declare contempt of court against Argentina for the simple reason at that point this case will rise well above his control. I am fairly confident Griesa understands how big this case has become.
Aug 24th, 2014 - 12:32 pm - Link - Report abuse 0”and “ignores how democratic institutions function”.
Aug 24th, 2014 - 03:48 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Whilst Argentina ignores the democratically elected Falkland Island Government.
60
Aug 24th, 2014 - 09:05 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Pops... Griesa will not issue an arrest order or contempt....because against a Sovereign Nation it is meaningless and cannot be enforced and is against US law..The Foreign Sovereign Immunities Act of 1976....
That is not what I am thinking when I made my post. However you are aware of what FSIA is applicable to correct and why is is applied when it is?
Aug 25th, 2014 - 12:32 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I stand by what I posted.
I suggest you study the act and not wiki-read it.
Hugo Haime, a pollster in Buenos Aires, says this combative atmosphere suits Ms Fernández, if she is to be seen defending the nation’s interests against an unpopular enemy, whether it is the “vulture funds” abroad, or the rich and privileged at home.
Aug 25th, 2014 - 06:58 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“This government feels most comfortable in permanent confrontation,” he said.
63. I don't think Voice reads that well. That's why he sticks to Wiki. The idiots guide to everything.
Aug 25th, 2014 - 11:12 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Commenting for this story is now closed.
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