MercoPress. South Atlantic News Agency
Scotland's leader wins the pro independence debate, according to The Guardian
Campaign leaders clashed over Scotland's future in a lively final TV showdown on Monday, with the pro-independence side counting on a knock-out blow to vault a stubborn gap in the polls. Read full article
Comments
Disclaimer & comment rulesI guess they will use sterling the same way Argentina uses the dollar, maybe they can get some economic tips from Argentina because their economic standing will be quite similar if they default on their debt.
Aug 26th, 2014 - 07:26 am - Link - Report abuse 0Shadowing the pound with their own toilet paper peso, good luck Scotland lol
I watched the debate and Salmond did indeed certainly appear to have the edge in this debate.
Aug 26th, 2014 - 08:20 am - Link - Report abuse 0What shocked me the most however was Salmond's inability to answer some of the financial questions.
I'm not sure if he didn't understand the subject or was directly misleading the audience but either way he seemed to be declaring Scotland could use the pound and all would be fine! Scotland can indeed continue to use the currency however Scotland would do so at great cost of not having any financial reserves or to be able to do basic things like set interest rates. Under these conditions London still clearly has control of Scotland's finances.
Yup Scotland could of course keep the Pound - BUT - without the Bank of England as last resort it would just be a paper Scottish Pound and wortheless - as wold be demonstrated by the flight of capital, banks, ins companies,pension funds etc to England pretty fast!
Aug 26th, 2014 - 08:36 am - Link - Report abuse 0Two angry, middle-class men pointing and shouting at each other. It looked more like a road-rage incident in Penicuik than an inspirational debate about the future of the nation. Salmond's rhetoric was better - asking for a sovereign mandate to negotiate for a currency union - but that just sounds good, it doesn't actually mean anything. That is, “Can i have a Currency Union please?”
Aug 26th, 2014 - 09:17 am - Link - Report abuse 0“Sorry, No.”
“ Well can I AND the sovereign people of Scotland have a Currency Union please?”
“errr, No.”
The chap that asked “if we are better together then why are we not better already?” looked all pleased with himself, but if you compare Scotland to Ireland or Iceland (i.e. Salmond's pre-crash exemplars) Scotland IS already doing better at least in terms of how it recovered from the crash. And of course the reason for that is that Scotland has the Bank of England and the UK government behind it. Darling missed lots of easy hits. He after all is the one who CAN guarantee a currency union i.e. Vote No.
It would have been nice to have seen Slimy Salmond be quiet when it was Darling's turn to speak. If Salmond won the debate it was because he was the only one whom anyone could actually hear. He still hasn't answered the key questions. He'll say anything in order to feed his megalomaniac dream of independence and become President Salmond/Braveheart II.
Aug 26th, 2014 - 09:34 am - Link - Report abuse 0As an Englishman who has never had anyone to vote for I can understand many Scots' frustration with Westminster, I have the same feelings often. But Salmond wants a totally socialist agenda and that's the road to ruin. Its an emotional question for Scots and every single one that I know thinks they will remain better off in the Union. The vast majority of Scot Nats seem to come from the 'scrounger' something for nothing 'Peronist' faction. Its a deeply divided nation.
Aug 26th, 2014 - 11:09 am - Link - Report abuse 0well done Alex.
Aug 26th, 2014 - 12:06 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@ 7. Well done Alex for leading Scotland down the path to economic oblivion. Just like RG land, the sums don't add up.
Aug 26th, 2014 - 12:50 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Salmond is now fighting for his political life. One wonders whether the people of scotchland will remember all his lies. Remember the “legal advice” he had over scotchland's “easy” entry into the EU? Except that he had no such advice and the EU says scotchland will have to take its place at the end of the queue. So, with scotch membership of the EU likely to be “several” years away, what else did he come out with? No change at the “border”. How would that work? A non-EU country bordering an EU member and no border controls? I think not. And the same goes for “free” trade. Scotchland may even finish up virtually cut off. Border controls into everywhere nearby except, perhaps, Norway. We know about the pound, of course. And still Salmond insists that the sovereign will of the scotch people will prevail and there WILL be a currency union. Then there's defence. Salmond's plans include 4 frigates, 16 Typhoons and 20,000 personnel. Where's he going to get them? I can't see the people of England willing to hand over 16 Typhoons to a future potential enemy. To be fair, he plans to start with 2 Type 23 frigates and then replace them with 4 Type 26 frigates. So we can build them and then give them away? I think not. http://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/top-stories/scottish-independence-army-make-up-revealed-1-3209070
Aug 26th, 2014 - 12:55 pm - Link - Report abuse 0And the gas and oil? It seems that it's not as Salmond would have the scotch believe. For a start, it seems that the fields and wells belong to the companies that own them. Then, much of their operation depends on treaties and international law. The truth, in my opinion, is that Salmond doesn't really want independence. He wants the so-called “devo-max”. Then he can spend what he like and expect England to pay the bills. He may be surprised at what the people of England will demand. An end to all subsidies for a start. And if scotchland can't afford “it”, then they can go without!
Up here in Dunoon we'll have none of this Independence malarky. Our Master is having none of it. http://www.cowalmasoniclodges.co.uk/dunoon-argyll/ In case you are wondering he has been scoffing rather a lot of these pies lately, they have replaced the deep fried Mars Bars the Scots are so famous for http://www.cowalmasoniclodges.co.uk/dunoon-argyll/
Aug 26th, 2014 - 01:20 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Question is, can the English NHS continue to susidise the outcomes of Scotlands nauseous eating habits and alcoholism?
Salmond claims no currency union they no share of national debt- OK fair play, then all army equipment, all naval and airforce aquipment and ships and aircraft move to England by Independence day . Customs barrier goes up- Scotland is not in the EU - sorry - heavy import duties on all products coming south and all the Scottish border farmers can no longer sell livestock nor produce into UK markets.
Aug 26th, 2014 - 03:28 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Think a bit of realism Salmond - if you can?
Salmond is on an ego trip. What will happen if things go tits up, who will bail them out, Argentina?
Aug 26th, 2014 - 03:47 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Salmond,
Aug 26th, 2014 - 07:06 pm - Link - Report abuse 0soon to tell us he can swim backwards..lol
he won a debate between to scots, neither of whom are in power, and not likely to be, [ yet]
still,
its the wars that count,
in this case the people will decide not the scot pot pair,
all we need now is the referendum on Europe..
just a voting thought.
“optimistic estimates of oil and gas revenues”
Aug 26th, 2014 - 09:31 pm - Link - Report abuse 0What oil and gas? at least 90 percent of it belongs to the Orkney and Shetland Islands who are going to have their own independence vote and either stay with England or join Norway - 'Up Helly Aa'.
The UK has given the oil companies great incentives to explore for oil in the North Sea, I wonder if Scotland under Salmond will do the same.Will Scotland pay the UK for all the money that it has invested in the oil companies? It is about time that England,Wales and Northern Ireland had a referendum on whether we want to keep subsidising Scotland or even belong to the UK.
Aug 26th, 2014 - 11:42 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“It is about time that England,Wales and Northern Ireland had a referendum on whether we want to keep subsidising Scotland or even belong to the UK.”
Aug 27th, 2014 - 12:26 am - Link - Report abuse 0says the naboletti.
it is scotland that subsidise england, with...their oil, you nabo.
as for wales and north ireland, surely they will follow the footsteps of scotland.
i predict an independent wales and a reunited ireland in less than 5 years.
@16. You wish. A free Patagonia is more likely.
Aug 27th, 2014 - 03:39 am - Link - Report abuse 0Say what you like about Vladimir Putin, but he rides on horseback with the Yakuts, he hunts in the Urals with the Tatars, he fishes in the Lake Baikal with the Buryats...
Aug 27th, 2014 - 04:22 am - Link - Report abuse 0A great leader understands that to have a unified country that is made up of many ethnicities and nations you have to be all at once and embody a single culture and identety of a country.
A British Prime Minister goes on holiday to Italy. Difference much
I don't know how many stupid people there are in Scotland (Voice is clearly one), but looking at this poll it seems like 70%.
Aug 27th, 2014 - 05:48 am - Link - Report abuse 0Scottish Independence has its pros and cons (for both England and Scotland), Scotland would have its socialist government, England maybe spared Milliband...who can deny that benefit?
BUT SALMOND WAS LYING.
Scotland cannot keep THE Pound, it can keep a Pound.
THE Pound will in essence cease to exist, and would be replaced by two new pounds. One of them backed by 92% of the what is currently the Bank of England, and another backed by 8% of what is currently the Bank of England.
I know which is nearer “The Pound” and it aint Salmonds!!
Nobody is denying Scotland its share of the assets of the Bank of England...8%. What they are denying Scotland is the Power of 100% of the Bank of England.
Salmond LIED, and the stupid Nats clapped him.
As I said, there are pros and cons of Independence, and most English don't really mind either way...but watching a bunch of stupids clap a liar....oh dear oh dear
@16 Paul
Aug 27th, 2014 - 07:59 am - Link - Report abuse 0Re: Northern Ireland - only 4% want a United Ireland today with no more than 30% wanting it in 20 years time. So if you think one is coming in 5-years you need to convince 46% of the population to change their minds in the next few years.
paulcedron (#16) '... as for Wales and North Ireland, surely they will follow the footsteps of Scotland. I predict an independent Wales and a reunited Ireland in less than 5 years.'
Aug 27th, 2014 - 01:21 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Surprising, he may have hit a few nails on the head.
A Yes vote will dismantle the United Kingdom and also Great Britain.
A few little states existing off the coast of Europe. England may get its own government for the first time in centuries. England will play in the big boys' league, but Scotland and the rest may have to rely on being off-shore tax havens and money laundering centres. Scotland can have a declining oil revenue until it runs out in 30 years time - after that, you have to hope that it has a bit more than heather to keep it going.
Northern Ireland may prefer the Republic link in the years to come; their Protestants mat have to go to Scotland.
@20 Redrow
Aug 27th, 2014 - 01:38 pm - Link - Report abuse 0And if Paul uses Argentina's 'well tried' method of demanding that Northern Ireland vote for a United Ireland, completely ignoring the population that live there, watch the supporters of a United Ireland in NI, plummet.
the solution for this issue would be scotland out of britain, and britain out of ireland
Aug 27th, 2014 - 04:04 pm - Link - Report abuse 0#19
Aug 27th, 2014 - 04:48 pm - Link - Report abuse 0As opposed to 100% somewhere close !
#15
You are having one by proxy
I see the latent hatred of the Scots is surfacing again..BIG TIME.
If the vote is YES, then Scotland could be in for a rough time. That is something that we will have to live with. It would probably take about 10 years before a turn round could be established.
It is not going to be all benefits for England. Internationally you will lose credence. You are desperate to leave the EU, who are you going to align with ? Who wants you? If you wish to sell to the EU then you will still have to conform to their product and food standards. You will probably find that you don't have as many friends as you think you have.
A diminished UK will probably have renewed questions as to why you have a seat on the Security council or a seat at any top table.
Internationally questions will be asked as to why Scotland wants to leave the UK. What is wrong with England that the Scots want a divorce ?
Answers on a postcard to 10 Downing Street, London.
Anyway we will know the answer in a few weeks time.
#21
money laundering centres.
I though that the City of London controlled that.
Vote YES for Scotland.
Aug 27th, 2014 - 06:47 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@24
Aug 27th, 2014 - 07:13 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You carry on like it was the English that started all of this, I might remind you that between 1997 and 2010 we had two 'Scottish' prime ministers and two 'Scottish' chancellors of the exchequer that put this country into its worst financial crisis in 70 years, yet you have your own parliament where the English are not allowed and we in England have no outright say in our own affairs and are governed by Scots....does that sound fair to you?
No, its not bloody fair!!
The reality is that you won't vote for independence, this whole farce has been an unashamed attention seeking exercise led by a fat toad and a bunch of other wankers. It will however leave you with a very divided country north of the border and will probably be the catalyst for an English parliament and a very strong likelihood of UKIP in a coalition goverment next year who have the English peoples interests at heart.
We see you argie troopers and toppers are trying but failing to split us,
Aug 27th, 2014 - 07:13 pm - Link - Report abuse 0300 years is more than your education of us is capable of handling,
The result we be a win for the Unionist,
so you argies are wasting your time..lol
The only way Scotland can be a successful small country in the future is if it adopts a Asian Tiger style economy. Controlled budget, low public expenditure, hard working, study hard, and flexible labour costs, low currency . The problem as I see it is that Salmond has made them believe they can be a Scandinavian Socialist country.
Aug 27th, 2014 - 07:13 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@28
Aug 27th, 2014 - 09:51 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Salmond is not who we are voting yes for. We are voting yes for Scotland.
You and many other doubters are going to be shocked and surprised for a long time after the 18th Sep.
I would support Scottish independence from the future islamic Sultanate of Great Britanistan if I were Scot myself. The problem is that Scotland is even more left wing and a traditional labour stronghold so my guess is that the SNP and Scottish Labour will do all the stuff and policies Blair & Brown did down south but on a local level, but with no pound, no currency, no resources, a mountous country, almost no agro land ugly weather, no navy to defend your shipping lanes nor control the isles off shore deposits and surroundings.
Aug 27th, 2014 - 10:13 pm - Link - Report abuse 0well, you to can work that one out.
Aug 27th, 2014 - 10:23 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@30
Aug 27th, 2014 - 11:05 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Your handle suits you.
You are completely and utterly incorrect in your statement.
Scotland has everything, - Scotland will have control of all our North Sea Oil for starters.
We can have the pound if we wish, - There is no way the Westminster Government will deny a shared currency, - If they do that, - Then they automatically take on all the shared dept. (how many billion?)
No fuggin way Westminster will refuse to come to an agreement on the currency thing.
Scotland will be simply the 17th Country in the Commonwealth.
Along with Canada, Australia, the Kiwi's, etc........
32
Aug 27th, 2014 - 11:27 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Exept that the commonwealth dont depend on Britain for its navy... You do. Thats why you needed them to bail you out and provide you with ships for trade, colonization and defence in the first place.
You have always being a society of warriors and herdsman traditionally, England on the other hand produced craftsmen, sailors and traders.
It doesnt make sence to break Archipielagos in a geopolitical point of view because the interest between the islands and the regions within are by definition the same; naval hence you have Indonesia, the Philippines, Japan and countless Pacific Federations unified.
But as I see it the problem is that you clearly dont feel “British” anymore.In fact there isn't a British common ground anymore, and that is the problem as I see it. For far to long Westminster has promoted multiculturralism wich has resulted in a mojo less country and society, bending over backwards to fit in anyone and make everyone happy like for example turning a blind eye to Islamic advance and bribing the hell out of Scotland just to keep them in.
Cameron should play Golf with the Salmond and the Scottish leaders or go mountaing climbing in the Highlands instead of going to Italy on holiday.
Britain needs a Putin to save it from breaking apart. But they are too politicaly correct to admit it.
26
Aug 27th, 2014 - 11:33 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The UK Parliament have always had the English peoples interests at heart....
That is why there is an Independence vote....people are sick and tired of all the investment going to London and the Home counties....
Investment should be spread throughout the UK, not just the South....
As for the rest of your post..remind me again of the ratio of English MP's to Scottish MP's in Westminster....
30
Like you would know anything about Scotland.....you have never left your Country...Save your Google knowledge for someone that actually gives a fcuk....
There are plenty of countries with large natural resources and huge tracts of agricultural land that are poorer than Scotland....
...also they don't have the ingenuity and inventiveness of the Scots....since you like Googling...google Scottish inventions....then know your place in the world...the Scots are giants in this field....
The next time you watch TV or use your phone think about who invented those...
Bell...and Baird...
34.
Aug 27th, 2014 - 11:42 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Ohh I know that you are still butt hurt.
@33 Thickhead.
Aug 28th, 2014 - 12:23 am - Link - Report abuse 0You say we Scots were only ever herdsmen etc?
Get this up your vulva;
http://uk.ask.com/wiki/Scottish_inventions_and_discoveries?lang=en#Communication_innovations
Yeahhhhh don't you find it a coincidence that no invention was produced by independent Scotland BEFORE the Union act and had access to the knowledge, knowhow and technology of the English...??
Aug 28th, 2014 - 12:35 am - Link - Report abuse 0Are you just as stupid and arrogant bigoted as Voice??
@37 Thickhead.
Aug 28th, 2014 - 12:41 am - Link - Report abuse 0The Chiltron.
We Picts were the first to use our invention against the Roman Empire.
And thus, is why they had to build Hadrians wall.
You pathetic Mongrell.
The Romans didn't conquer Scotland not because of the “Chiltron” but because it was to poor to bother about it.
Aug 28th, 2014 - 12:53 am - Link - Report abuse 0The Greeks invented the Phalanx much earlier. Mountain people developed pikemen and spearmen like the Swiss, Greeks and so many others. You are not as special as you think you are.
Anyway to much education and politeness on a Scottish nationalist cunt.
@39
Aug 28th, 2014 - 01:04 am - Link - Report abuse 0You know the Roman Empire were forced to withdraw by us. By us.
Cabazadura2.........
Shit themselves - Had to Build a Wall. Haidrian's wall.
You pissed us Scots off one time too many...
They just built the wall to stop the Picts to prevent the raids on civilized and rich Britannia province, the same problem as Medieval England faced, so they had to move the borders further north to defend better from.
Aug 28th, 2014 - 01:13 am - Link - Report abuse 0But if you were such great fighters how come the naked Irish conquered you ??
No naked Irish ever conquered us Scots.
Aug 28th, 2014 - 02:23 am - Link - Report abuse 0CabezaDura2
Irish are scared shitless of Scots. Facto....
You need to get in touch with you ancestry..
I dont understand what you mean and you are weird and creepy.
Aug 28th, 2014 - 03:50 am - Link - Report abuse 0Naked Irish of the Scoti tribe -well not that the Picts used much clothing anyway- conquered Pictland and even gave you the name you bare to this day.
A Yes vote will dismantle the United Kingdom and also Great Britain.
Aug 28th, 2014 - 09:18 am - Link - Report abuse 0A Yes vote will make these Island well and truely balkaned.
Does this bother anybody?
Germany brought its 'states' under the control of The German Empire in 1871, its overseas dominions were dismantled after its unfortunate wars. Today, there is NO desire to dismantle its constituent parts ... perhaps because together there are *synergistically* successful.
Have people considered that, in the after-glow of the British Empire, the 'worth' of these islands comes about only because of the spectrum of virtues of ALL the nations - this is the synergistic value of our united kingdom.
Once it becomes balkanized there is no synergy, only the decline to nothingness of the poorer and smaller nations and regions.
43
Aug 28th, 2014 - 04:49 pm - Link - Report abuse 0A point of note... the Dalriadic Kings didn't really conquer the Picts....Kenneth MacAlpine unified the Scots and the Picts by marrying a Pictish princess....
The seat of the Kings (Dunadd) and the Stone of Destiny (Scone) was then moved from the Scottish Kingdom of Dalriada (Argyll, where I live)) to Scone in Alba....The lowlands including Edinburgh and Strathclyde was at that time in control of the Angles in the east and the Brythonic Britons in the west....
I was at Dunadd not long ago and there is well worn footprint in the rock at the top of the fort where the Kings were cro
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