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Argentina and Chile navies in confidence building exercises in Beagle Channel

Wednesday, August 27th 2014 - 06:51 UTC
Full article 58 comments

Argentina and Chile announced on Monday the launching of the annual naval exercise known as “Viekaren” (confidence in Yamana language) in the extreme south of the continent where the two countries territorial waters meet. Read full article

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  • Captain Poppy

    A “confidence” buidling exercise....for who the Argentines? What was it........how long can their vessels stay afloat out of their berths?

    Aug 27th, 2014 - 09:18 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • golfcronie

    Look more like pleasure craft than naval vessels

    Aug 27th, 2014 - 10:12 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Bombadier Spoon

    I can imagine this confidence exercise being like my little'uns swimming lesson. The Chilean navy stood there with long poles in case they sink. I used to laugh at a RN friend of mine because he said he was a terrible swimmer. I bet its bloody impartive for anyone joining the Argentine navy.

    They should cut there losers and start from scrap. Build a fleet in which they can afford and maintain. I suggest one of these......

    http://www.walmart.com/ip/Banzai-Ahoy-Matey-Pirate-Ship-Pool-Raft-Float/19863322

    Its more reliable than any ship they currently have. It actually floats. Requires minimal training. It can be transported a round the globe easily as reactionary force to unforeseen future conflicts.

    Aug 27th, 2014 - 11:30 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Troy Tempest

    3 Bombardier

    “I can imagine this confidence exercise being like my little'uns swimming lesson.”

    LOL, you beat me to it!

    “ There we go José, first one leg, then the other... come along, the water 'a not that cold.
    Now, let go of the Coast Guard Cutter... come on... I've got your hand... ”

    Aug 27th, 2014 - 11:58 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ChrisR

    ”Eight naval units plus two air naval supports operating from Puerto Williams (Chile) and Ushuaia (Argentina) plus 300 men from both countries will be involved in the rescue simulation of a vessel in distress“, said Captain Donna-Kebab.

    He stressed that the rumours that Chile were going to scuttle the argie ship where completely unfounded: “it will attempt to sink by itself but we have a flotation collar on it to prevent that”

    AH! The argies ARE a laugh a minute.

    I wonder if they saw that spy with the camera behind the argie 'rag of a flag'?

    Aug 27th, 2014 - 12:22 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • gordo1

    I didn't know Argentina had any vessels with which to form a navy - from where have they suddenly appeared?

    Aug 27th, 2014 - 12:24 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • reality check

    I don't know, but I would expect that the Chilean Naval officers involved in this excercise, are suppressing a deep sense of satisfaction at the state of what was once their greatest threat.

    A lesson for all, when your on top, you should not lord it over your neighbours, things change!

    Aug 27th, 2014 - 12:41 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Pete Bog

    ”Eight naval units plus two air naval supports operating from Puerto Williams (Chile) and Ushuaia (Argentina) plus 300 men from both countries will be involved in the rescue simulation of a vessel in distress“, said Captain Dona.“

    I wonder how many of the Naval Units were Argentine?

    I bet that as soon as the simulated yachtsman sends out a distress beacon, one of the Argentine ships starts taking in water, becoming' the vessel in distress.'

    Unless the 'yacht' is the Liberturd.

    ”end operations in Ushuaia when the combined command will be giving a press conference on the results of the fourteenth annual exercise.“

    Where the soaked and bedraggled Argentine sailors that are rescued by the Chilean Navy will claim they have taken part in the ice bucket challenge to save face.

    ”we are targeting more complex activities combined with divers for emergencies underwater,”

    Well not exactly, the divers check the Argentine ships before they leave the dock to make sure they can get out to sea safely.

    A warning for the Islanders-there have been Argentine spies photographing the annual raft race in Stanley, stealing your technology vital to ensuring they design ships that float.

    Aug 27th, 2014 - 01:09 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Livingthedream

    Is that a picture of their whole navy?

    Aug 27th, 2014 - 01:18 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • reality check

    I collective sigh of relief is due, given the due given the current sutuation with the cult of Chritine.

    Had she the resources, she may well have used them as a distraction, not against of course, because the result would be predictable.

    Aug 27th, 2014 - 01:55 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • aussiesunshinee

    Good for Chile and Argentina!! well done!!

    Aug 27th, 2014 - 02:29 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • reality check

    Good for Chile.

    Let's see if Argentines makes it back to port.

    Are, Arf, Arf, Arf!

    Aug 27th, 2014 - 02:32 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Rick from Maryland

    This is a good thing. The Argie gain confidence that they can actually maneuver their vessels away from the dock and the Chileans gain confidence that they avoid collisions with out of control ships.

    Yup. A win-win.

    Aug 27th, 2014 - 02:48 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • reality check

    Call it an educated guess, the Argentine ships are those to Starboard ans Port.

    Struggling to see the tow ropes.

    Aug 27th, 2014 - 02:53 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • paulcedron

    yep, our ships are crap.
    the good thing is we know it and that we don´t need them.
    the english / english wannabes on the other hand think their navy is super powerful.
    LOL
    you are going to kill the whole british population by contaminating your own waters with that shit of vessels, submarines and the other crap you have there.

    “Revealed: Shock 'Code Red' safety report on British nuclear subs as fleet is hit by leaking, cracked reactors and lack of trained staff”

    “Slow, leaky, rusty: Britain's £10bn submarine beset by design flaws”
    “Exclusive: Royal Navy's HMS Astute 'has a V8 engine with a Morris Minor gearbox'”

    “Radiation leak on nuclear sub off Scots coast
    BRITAIN’S?nuclear?fleet?suffered?a?dangerous setback after a submarine was docked for emergency repairs following a radiation leak off Scotland.”

    Aug 27th, 2014 - 03:16 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • reality check

    The average argentine submariner stays at sea sumerged for 7 hours a year.

    The average British submariner stays at sea submerged for 6 months at a time.

    Your point is?

    Aug 27th, 2014 - 03:28 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • The Voice

    Where is the Liberturd?

    Aug 27th, 2014 - 03:35 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • reality check

    Mate of mine served 22 years on Submarines, retired as a CPO.

    Had six wives!

    When I asked him how that was possible?

    He told me that 17 of those 22 years were submerged beneath the seas of the world and it was one of those things.

    Funny thing is, he is still a magnet for women.

    If the submarine services were football teams the RN would be Man United and the ARA would be the “Mucky Duck!” and that's a premier pub team!

    Aug 27th, 2014 - 03:42 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • paulcedron

    “If the submarine services were football teams the RN would be Man United”
    spot on.
    totally agree

    “Manchester United crashes out of Capital One Cup with loss to third division MK Dons”

    Aug 27th, 2014 - 03:59 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Clyde15

    #19
    At least we have a navy with ships that float.....and you have ?

    Aug 27th, 2014 - 04:18 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • gordo1

    @15 You really are a fool!

    Nobody denies that the Royal Navy is the shadow of what it once was. But naval warfare has changed and the weaponry now carried by much smaller warships can effect more damage than the battleships of the 20th century. One destroyer has enough power to obliterate Buenos Aires, for example. One of our powerful nuclear powered submarines is a fearsome vessel.

    But these vessels are only used for defensive purposes - so stay aware from the Falklands Islands, British territory in the South Atlantic.

    You really should THINK, mamarracho, before you put one finger to your keyboard.

    Aug 27th, 2014 - 04:42 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • paulcedron

    Comment removed by the editor.

    Aug 27th, 2014 - 05:17 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ChrisR

    “In July 1956, a plane crashed in Suffolk, nearly detonating an atomic bomb.”

    Really, well I never!

    You, like the stupid idiot who typed that nonsense, clearly do not know that atomic weapons are triggered by special shaped charge devices and without the trigger for that the bomb simply will not explode.

    Did you not do basic nuclear physics at University? Oh I forgot, NO argie University can teach physics to that level and even cosmology mathematics seems to be beyond the students if TIT is anything to go by.

    Another of your posts, another laugh a minute!

    Aug 27th, 2014 - 05:55 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Chicureo

    Say what you may say, from personal experience, their officers mess is far nicer than that offered by Chile. Their state of readiness however is...
    From Wiki: “The Argentine Navy is under-funded and struggling to meet maintenance and training requirements, as a result only 15 out of a total of 42 navy vessels are in a condition to sail. The 2013 defence budget allowed for the 15 operational vessels to each spend less than 11 days at sea, while the submarines averaged just over 6 hours submerged in the whole of 2012. ARA Espora spent 73 days in late 2012 stranded in South Africa for lack of spares. The Almirante Brown-class destroyers are short of spares and their ordnance has expired whilst the Antarctic patrol ship ARA Almirante Irizar has been under repair since a fire in 2007. On 23 January 2013 the Type 42 destroyer ARA Santísima Trinidad sank at her moorings.”

    Aug 27th, 2014 - 06:01 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • paulcedron

    christine
    you can't be dumber or more brainwashed, can you?
    do an atomic bomb won't explode by accident because they are triggered by special shaped charge devices and blablabla?
    have you ever read the reports on the accident in north carolina, you dumbass?
    or the reports of the sandia engineers about that matter?
    go, search in the internet, engineer...lol

    Aug 27th, 2014 - 06:16 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Hernán

    Good for Latin American unity, it makes us stronger to face external threats, I remind all who do not know history of Argentina and Chile that our founding father, General Don José de San Martin freed Chile from the Spanish .
    In addition, Argentina has developed in this last decade its shipbuilding industry mainly peaceful purposes (I do not think the English understand the meaning of these last words).

    Aug 27th, 2014 - 06:36 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ChrisR

    @ 25 Polly

    The ONLY nuclear bomb “horror” story I can find in North Carolina related to 1961 when a B-52 broke up in flight and the two bombs were set free of their restraints. Is that what you are blathering on about?

    If so, you clearly haven’t read the claims of the author or, more likely, don’t understand them.

    The safety system for these two bombs comprised of four safety interlocks of mechanical and electrical devices and THEY WORKED you numbnut.

    So what if three of the four devices were destroyed in the actual damage caused to the bombs when they hit the ground? One parachute failed and it still didn’t detonate.

    You probably weren’t even born (1961) and don’t remember the clunky electro-mechanical switches we had to put up with until electronics took over.

    I love the quote by one of the commentators “we were told that the bomb nearly exploded – but it didn’t”

    Says it all really. Polly living 53 years in the past, about right for The Dark Country.

    Aug 27th, 2014 - 06:42 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • gordo1

    @22 mamarracho

    “first, the ones who have nothing to do in the southern mar argentino are the english.” Surely you must be aware that there is no such thing as the “southern mar argentino” - es un invento de una raza superarrogante que habita parte de Latinoamérica. And second, the people who live in the Falkland Islands have more right to their lands than most of the Argentine nation have of theirs in terms of longevity.

    You really are totally misinformed of the history of your own country¡

    Aug 27th, 2014 - 07:07 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Chicureo

    #26 Hernán
    San Martin is a great military hero and we have great respect for his contributions to Chilean independence.
    There are however some other Argentine military leaders from the 70's who we do not have the same reverence for... Perhaps why we have such a distrust between us.
    However, saying that, it is excellent for our two countries to do joint exercises and it does build friendship.

    Aug 27th, 2014 - 07:10 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • gordo1

    @29

    I assume that your final sentence in the message above is typed “tongue in cheek”!

    ¡Viva Chile!

    Aug 27th, 2014 - 07:13 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Briton

    the good thing is we know it and that we don´t need them.

    ..................
    if you don't need them , then scrap them,
    the argies ships are the small ones, and what the picture did not show, was the breakdown ships from Chile ready and waiting just in case .lolol

    ,,,,,,,,,,,,,
    the english / english wannabes on the other hand think their navy is super powerful

    English ship [ no exist]
    Royal Navy ships and over one thousand years of battle experience,
    And yes they are powerful,

    new ships on trials always have problems,
    but ones jealousy is getting the better of him...lol

    Aug 27th, 2014 - 07:27 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Chicureo

    #30 Gordo
    Well, no because I do feel a bit of pity for my Argentine brothers.
    When I was a young cadet, we were worried that there would be another conflict between our two nations, and although Chile's army was perhaps the best trained and equipped in Latin America, our navy and navy were far inferior to Argentina.

    Today, the only thing they have superior to Chile are their officers clubs. (All first class.)

    ¡Viva Chile!

    Aug 27th, 2014 - 07:33 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Frank

    That is the the RG ships on the outside......
    Over 50% of the ARA ships in Ushuaia will never go to sea again.... that is a fact.

    Aug 27th, 2014 - 08:44 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Jack Bauer

    From Wiki
    ”... dispute over control of the islands, between Chile & Argentina, continued into late 20th century. On 22 July 1971 Salvador Allende n' Alejandro Lanusse, presidents of Chile, Argentina, respectively, signed arbitration agreement (Arbitration Agreement, 1971). This agreement was to settle their dispute over territorial n' maritime boundaries between them, in particular the title to Picton, Nueva & Lennox islands near the extreme end of South America. It was submitted to binding arbitration under the auspices of Queen Elizabeth II of the U.Kingdom.
    On 25 January 1978 Argentina repudiated the arbitration decision, began to prepare for war and the three islands, and the Hermite & Wollastone islands became the main objective of the Argentine threat.

    “Argentina repudiates the arbitration decision”.....sound familiar ? Argentina only accepts arbitration decisions when they are favourable...to Argentina....
    Quite frankly, I think the Chilean Navy should keep a close watch on the Argies during this naval exercise....they might suddenly find half-a-dozen Argies camped on the Beagle Islands, claiming they've been there for 6 weeks, and that the islands are theirs.....ring a bell ?
    @29 Chicureo
    With all due respect one has for a nation's history and their heroes, permit me to question General José de San Martin's contribution to Chilean independence /final freedom from Spain. What about Bernardo O'Higgins ? and Lord Thomas Cochrane, founder of the Chilean navy and responsible for most of the actions which eventually lead to the defeat of the Spaniards up the west coast of S.America ? I have read over a dozen books on Cochrane - various authors - including his own biography, and have just finished the 1st of two volumes , written by Cochrane himself, named “Narrative of Services in the Liberation of Chili, Peru, and Brazil, from Spanish and Portuguese Domination”...his opinion of San Martin, is not very flattering.. Comments ?

    Aug 27th, 2014 - 11:35 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Chicureo

    #34 Jack Bauer

    Oh my Andean brothers have been known to be sneaky, but the fastest would be for one of our F-16s armed with sidewinders to conduct missile practice...

    The only concern regarding keeping an eye on the Argentinian navy, is to make sure they don't drown if one of their vessels sink. The relatively modern Almirante Brown-class destroyers are powered by Rolls Royce turbines that have not adequately been serviced and are notorious for losing power in high seas.

    Lord Cochrane is my favorite historical figure of South America. San Martin, like all the heroes of liberation had less than glorious ends. Manuel Rodriguez and the Carreras brothers were executed, and O'Higgins was exiled in Peru and San Martin died partially of depression in France. (I admire them all, despite their imperfections.)

    Cochrane and San Martin really became full enemies during the war in Peru and the bitterness continued until their deaths. It's important to remember, San Martin provided the heroes of Chile refuge in Argentina when there was a price on their heads. Such is the history of Chile. At the Union Club in Santiago, there are two entrances to the main dining room. One with a portrait of O'Higgins and the other with a portrait of Carrera. Many members prefer the Carrera entrance for historical reasons...

    Cochrane's family is still titled in Scotland and their estate still stands in all it's glory. Many books and movies have been inspired by Lord Cochrane's life. Did you read the references about his plan to rescue Napoleon on St. Helena island?

    The Army and Navy historically have always disliked each other.

    Sampling an inexpensive Cabernet tonight. Rex Golaith, Chilean, but bottled in California. Slight cough syrup taste with menthol, but drinkable... No, changed my mind, time to change the bottle I think....

    Aug 28th, 2014 - 01:38 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • aussiesunshinee

    how about using all these fire power from the world´s navies. armies and airforces to wipe out these savages called IS in Iraq!!!! ummmmmmm it would be put to good use.....

    Aug 28th, 2014 - 01:42 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Livingthedream

    And the British arm the FI because they are afraid of the Argentine invasion? LOL

    Aug 28th, 2014 - 10:13 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Britworker

    @37
    No no no, don't underestimate the benefits of having a huge British military base on the Falklands. It's a very good place to manage all of our interests in the South Atlantic including Antartica.
    Argentina are pretty insignificant, they would require no more than a few well placed air strikes to see their white flag go up.

    The UK are the primary military power in the South Atkantic and it will stay that way.

    Aug 28th, 2014 - 11:34 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Troy Tempest

    36 ASS
    “how about using all these fire power from the world´s navies. armies and airforces to wipe out these savages called IS in Iraq!!!! ummmmmmm it would be put to good use..... ”

    I thought you supported the “IS” - if only because they are against us.

    Aug 28th, 2014 - 01:09 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • aussiesunshinee

    *39 you have no idea what I think..go back to sleep!!!

    Aug 28th, 2014 - 02:34 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • SebaSvtz

    It´s really sad for me, as an average Argentinian guy, to see how our country and our navy, once powerful and significant, have now turned into a living joke and laugh material.

    Sometimes I wish we could simply start all over again...

    I for one wish our sailors to make a decent job, and to come back home safe.

    /

    Aug 28th, 2014 - 04:17 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • gordo1

    @26 re San Martín.

    What happened in Guayaquil during the famous meeting between Simón Bolívar and San Martín? Why did San Martín withdraw with his “tail between his legs” and leave for France shortly afterwards with his daughter?

    Aug 28th, 2014 - 05:13 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Chicureo

    #41
    I hope they return from a successful exercise as well.
    Chile has no animosity and our good relations will continue as long as Argentina respects our borders.
    Argentina can, and should, over the next decade rebuild it's navy into a strong coastal defense group with air support.
    #42
    San Martín was never a coward.

    Aug 28th, 2014 - 06:17 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Jack Bauer

    @35 Chicureo,
    In the various books I've read on the life of Admiral Lord Cochrane - only an ex-navy Captain when he was hired to fight for the Chilean cause in 1816, due to the stock exchange scandal (later proved to be a fraud) which caused him to be stripped of his rank and titles - the narrative is roughly the same, which is not surprising, given they are all are based on newspapers of the time and official (naval) records and documents. Nevertheless, not many men get to live a life as inspiring as his. Today, British naval historians are virtually unanimous in agreeing that Cochrane was the all-time best commander in the Royal Navy , even placing him ahead of Nelson. Fighting in those days did not allow the leaders to sit back in safety, while sending their men into battle.
    It is pretty clear in the book I've just finished, which goes into considerable detail regarding each naval operation Cochrane was involved in, that his and San Martin's relationship did not get off to a good start, and did not end well. Anyway, while in Valparaiso last year, it was pleasing to see the monument to Cochrane and his statue. Well deserved.

    Aug 28th, 2014 - 08:56 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Chicureo

    #Jack Bauer
    Cochrane as you know, prior to his South American glories, was far more than just a plain commander in the Royal Navy. An excellent brief antidote of some of his legacy can be read at:

    http://www.historic-uk.com/HistoryUK/HistoryofEngland/Thomas-Cochrane-Master-Commander/

    And yes, I've read ALL of the Forester and Patrick O’Brian novels.

    As I said before, Lord Cochrane's legacy far overshadows the great heroes, Arturo Prat and Carlos Condell (also a Scotsman). Miguel Grau is another one of the Naval officers that I greatly admire.

    We also had some real idiots running our government in the past. 3 years before the War of the Pacific, Chile's politicians decided to close down our naval school as they deemed it unnecessary.

    Aug 28th, 2014 - 10:16 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Jack Bauer

    @45, thanks for the link, Chicureo.
    You're right about Cochrane prior to his S.American adventure....he was one of the most successful Captains in the Royal Navy, which made him somewhat unpopular with the Admiralty when he decided to claim his prize money with so much 'dedication'.. And that's what eventually led up to - after his stint as an MP in Westminster , where he pushed his luck too far - his earning the (false) accusation and the (unjust) condemnation in the the stock exchange fraud. He was a great naval commander but never knew when to stop attacking his superiors. But that's the spirit and determination that made him what he was.
    Besides 14 books on Cochrane, I've got 16 of the 24 Patrick O'Brian books, ....must confess there are few books I've read with so much “gusto”.
    I've just received the 15th book on Cochrane (from Amazon), the title of which is “'Napoleon is Dead'- Lord Cochrane and the Great Stock Exchange Scandal”, by Richard Dale....should keep me busy for a while.

    Aug 28th, 2014 - 11:42 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Chicureo

    There are many links about Cochrane's plans to rescue Napoleon

    http://books.google.cl/books?id=LWy_aptJAtAC&pg=PA243&lpg=PA243&dq=lord+cochrane+rescue+napoleon+st+helena&source=bl&ots=Zidw2Dmbez&sig=zeGm7sty3IWy7k6wcAWmAbDW0ZU&hl=en&sa=X&ei=pcL_U-LvKoWWjAKx2IHQCA&ved=0CDoQ6AEwCA#v=onepage&q=lord%20cochrane%20rescue%20napoleon%20st%20helena&f=false

    http://books.google.cl/books?id=LWy_aptJAtAC&pg=PA243&lpg=PA243&dq=lord+cochrane+rescue+napoleon+st+helena&source=bl&ots=Zidw2Dmbez&sig=zeGm7sty3IWy7k6wcAWmAbDW0ZU&hl=en&sa=X&ei=pcL_U-LvKoWWjAKx2IHQCA&ved=0CDoQ6AEwCA#v=onepage&q=lord%20cochrane%20rescue%20napoleon%20st%20helena&f=false

    “... A frigate of seventy-four guns, with eight hundred sailors, was to be under the command of Lord Cochrane, a former British Admiral....”

    Aug 29th, 2014 - 12:16 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Jack Bauer

    “Cochrane, Britannia's Sea Wolf” was the 1st book I bought on Cochrane, in the early 80's. Later on I bought several copies of the book to give to some friends....And at about the same time, I met the son of Stewart Granger (Hollywood actor) at the Club, and he took a copy back to the US , intent on finding a producer interested in making a film based on Cochrane's exploits. I know it's a pretty long shot to think that the film “Master & Commander ”, with Russell Crowe, could have anything to do with that, but the project may have sat on the back of the shelf for quite some time, until...you never know.

    Aug 29th, 2014 - 12:48 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Chicureo

    Interesting. The Wine-Dark Sea is one of my favorites of O'Brian which the movie used part of for the script. Even the music of the movie Master and Commander is outstanding.

    Unfortunately, I never had any dealings with the Brazilian navy. I would imagine he's studied by their naval cadets for his contributions to their country.

    Aug 29th, 2014 - 01:40 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ChrisR

    @ 45 Chicureo
    “We also had some real idiots running our government in the past. 3 years before the War of the Pacific, Chile's politicians decided to close down our naval school as they deemed it unnecessary.”

    It was always thus, until the next time that the idiots wanted “their” military to save their skins from the big bad whatever that was coming at them.

    Aug 29th, 2014 - 12:55 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Chicureo

    ChrisR
    Yes, well currently we have a group of socialist, leftist and a few Marxist politicians that want to dismantle the best military in Latin America. There are some of them who'd like for us to go the way of Costa Rica and give it all up.

    Aug 29th, 2014 - 03:13 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Jack Bauer

    @49 Chicureo.
    After leaving Chile, at the end of 1819, Cochrane, at Dom Pedro I's invitation, came to Brazil early 1820, to head the Brazilian navy in the war effort against the Portuguese. After a series of interesting manouevres, Cochrane captured the main Portuguese garrison/fort in the northeast, and subsequently, most of the Portuguese ships. For Portugal this was the beginning of their end in Brazil. True to the times, D.Pedro did his best to get out of having to pay Cochrane for his services, so he tried giving him the title of Marques de Maranhão...Obviously, Cochrane was not particularly pleased, but eventually managed to eek out some compensation from the Emperor..
    Today, Cochrane is an obligatory subject in Brazilian Naval Colleges, and as such, a well known figure amongst the officers in the Navy. There are several streets named after him, in the City of São Paulo, as well as in Santos.

    Aug 29th, 2014 - 07:17 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Chicureo

    Enjoying a nice Turning Leaf Pinot Grigio (US$4.99) that's really very decent on a worm Summers evening. Very nice salad to accompany with fruit for dessert.k

    Yes, Lord Cochraine was very unhappy as what I read as well, but it reflects what happened through out his life of triumphs and disappointments.
    During my time in Salvador, I studied the local navy history, including reading about an attack by a Union frigate upon a Confederate ship moored in the neutral port. There was outrage by the Brazilians and they burned the American consulate in outrage. (The American consul wisely escaped with the American ship.)
    Many times when we had business lunches in Salvador, we'd use our own leased launch to dine at the wonderful restaurant at the São Marcelo Fort island in the bay. Always impressed the Europeans, especial the Dutch from Rabobank who were told it was originally built by their countrymen in the 1600s.
    Let's hope Brazil is able to adapt their new fighters to their carrier.

    Aug 30th, 2014 - 03:38 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Jack Bauer

    Chicureo,
    seems that you had quite a few interesting, memorable experiences in the NE of Brazil...
    If the Brazilians aren't careful, they'll be fishing planes out of the sea.

    Aug 30th, 2014 - 11:08 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Chicureo

    Jack, I'm missing something in the translation. Just who are you associated with?

    “...aren't careful, they'll be fishing planes out of the sea..”

    You are not by chance referring to the chartered twin engine Cessna flight with British businessmen who were supposed to fly from Salvador to the coastal town of Ilheus in 2008?

    Our group, by coincidence, were there at the same time and were using a Beechcraft Baron. It's suspected that the British passengers staged their deaths. (This caused some panic as the details reported led to many friends and associates assuming we were the ones that crashed.) You can confirm SISBIN/ABIN investigated and cleared our group of any association.

    Aug 31st, 2014 - 06:59 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Jack Bauer

    @55 Chicureo,
    I was referring to the 36 Gripen fighters that Brazil has aquired from Sweden, and now has to “adapt” them to allow landing on the 2 aircraft carriers which they still don't have...but of course, intend to buy. Planning ahead has never been their strong point, but wouldn't it be logical to buy compatible equipment , that did not need adapting ?
    Their current aircraft carrier, the “São Paulo” (bought from the French) is already 50 years old and not in particularly good shape. On a recent exercise-run outside the Guanabara Bay, it started to leak oil, and had a few minor accidents on board due to lack of reliable maintenance. That's why I mentioned they might “be fishing planes out of the sea...”

    Aug 31st, 2014 - 11:19 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Chicureo

    Sorry about being paranoid. You cannot imagine all the inquires we had to go through.
    I'm no avionics expert, but I think Brazil made the correct decision. Chile certainly is setting pretty with the F-16 and although the French had a good proposal, it was shocking the operating costs. Perhaps the best results of all would be to eliminate the carrier mentality and use land based runways to protect Brazil's costal defense... If you conservatively assume a combat radius of 1,300 km, Brazil doesn't need a Sea-Grippen.

    Everything I read, the F-35 is doomed due to costs.

    Carriers make sense for the USA, UK, France, Russia and China...

    Sep 01st, 2014 - 06:10 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Jack Bauer

    @57
    I vaguely remember the accident being reported in the news, and seems that at the time they did not find the wreckage. Don't know if they ever did. So according to the Brazilian authorities, you and your group were suspects of being some of the passengers that disappeared ?? what a situation, but all's well that ends well.
    As to Brazil's aquisition of the Gripens, without prior studies to know whether they'd be suitable for deployment on aircraft carriers, is what surprises me. It's almost like ordering train carriages, to only find out upon delivery that the span between wheels and the track gauge are different.

    Sep 02nd, 2014 - 05:05 pm - Link - Report abuse 0

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