MercoPress. South Atlantic News Agency
“The Battles of Coronel and Falkland Islands” restored 1927 film gala screening next October
British Composer award winner Simon Dobson’s latest high profile collaborative project will be heard at Queen Elizabeth Hall in London in October, with the premiere of a new restoration of one of the most significant films about the First World War. Read full article
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Disclaimer & comment rulesWould that be Coronel Blimp?
Aug 28th, 2014 - 09:36 am - Link - Report abuse 0Colonel loses something in translation.
The title has been corrected. And now the honesty. The unexpected Battle of Coronel was a British defeat. Can't win them all. Undeterred, the British responded and inflicted a decisive British victory. Coronel? UK. 1,570 men killed and 2 armoured cruisers lost. Falkland Islands? Germany. 1,871 killed. 215 captured. 2 armoured cruisers sunk. 2 light cruisers sunk. 2 transports scuttled. Britain WINS. Because we do our best to do what is right!
Aug 28th, 2014 - 10:52 am - Link - Report abuse 0I suppose the Argentinian Navy gave the Boche a good hiding, after all the FALKLANDS belonged to them did it not?
Aug 28th, 2014 - 01:09 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Relatives of mine died at Coronel; gunners, HMS Good Hope (ironically named) and after their having served several years in the RN at that; from the ages of 14...Still, they're 'out of it' now, and present day adults can hopefully watch and educate silly children posing as adults, who are exhorting wars for their dramatic sentimental entertainment. Wars are for unavoidable causes, not for glandular expiations...those Pavlovian responses, often mistaken by the recipient as “patriotism”
Aug 28th, 2014 - 01:23 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Question: Where has more wars? Western or Middle-East?
Aug 28th, 2014 - 02:21 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Interesting, I was not aware about the Coronel battle.
Aug 28th, 2014 - 04:23 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Here´s some extra info:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Coronel
@5
Aug 28th, 2014 - 04:26 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Google it you lazy prat.
Room ioi- our relatives will be remembered at Coronel this Nov for the 100th by both RNand Kreigsmarine representaitives and the Chilean Navy.
Aug 28th, 2014 - 04:48 pm - Link - Report abuse 0And again in Stanley on 8th December where family descendents of Admirals Craddock(killed at Coronel), Von Spee(Coronel victor and killed
at Battle of Falklands) and Sturdee - victor of the Falklands battle will lay wreaths and unveil a memorial to all those who gave their lives for their countries and were once enemies but then joined together in peace below the waves. They will also travel to the site of the Falklands Battle and lay wreaths on the sea there.
ConQ - there is no exact casualty count for either battle - even the RN has different figures for Coronel according to which source they use, and its largely guesswork for the German losses at the Falklands as it is known that VonSpee took on extra crews in Valparaiso after Coronel from the German community there - but their records of who they were went down with him. Best figure is just under 4000 total both sides both battles. The few RN casualties on 8th December are buried in Stanley cemetery.
One should not forget either that Von Spee when asked to drink a victory toast by the mayor of Valparaiso to the death and damnation of the British - refused - instead he said he would raise his glass only to “a valiant foe”.
8: Islanderi
Aug 28th, 2014 - 09:21 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Many years ago, my RN ship entered Montevideo and we saw the mast of the Graf Spee, sticking out of the water.
Thank you for your informative message on the memorial.
The financiers, industrialists and political class who launch wars should be willing to serve on the front line.
Aug 28th, 2014 - 09:46 pm - Link - Report abuse 09- Yes I recall that sight as a youngster when the passenger route in and out of the islands was by sea to Montevideo. Her anchor is now on display in the pier there. We are looking forward to the Dece events- RN have politley asked for no RAF flypast (a tradition on the 8th dec in the past) as RAF were not invented then! Instead I think we will have a RN helicopter flypast with both RN and German ensigns beneath at the unveiling. Von Spee,s 2 serving sons went down with him so no direct descendents as his daughter(who launched the Graf Spey in 1934) apparently never married. But he had a brother and we have 2 of his great grandsons coming out as well as direct descendents of the 2 RN Admirals, and RN and German Navy representatives.
Aug 29th, 2014 - 07:33 am - Link - Report abuse 011. Islanderi
Aug 29th, 2014 - 08:42 am - Link - Report abuse 0Thank you for the detail; I'll hand it on to my extended family.
(10) Vestige: Yes: those that solely war-for-profit. But, unfortunately, they are an integral part of that Matrix...It will never cease.
R.I.P.
Aug 29th, 2014 - 10:27 am - Link - Report abuse 0Chris & Max & their brave men.
What a criminal waste of good men, money & resources.
(As was all of WWI).
@10 Vestige
Aug 29th, 2014 - 02:08 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“The financiers, industrialists and political class who launch wars should be willing to serve on the front line.”
That is a valid point Vestige, like Winston Churchill who was so ashamed of the shambles at Gallipoli that he joined up-I'm not sure whether he was in the trenches or not-anyone expand on this?
I would have been glad to see Tony B-liar go to Iraq in 2003.
I'm disappointed that Galteiri, being an army General, declined to fight with his army in the Falklands, rather than hide in the Casa Rosada.
14- Winston Churchill did indeed serve on the front line- at battle of Omdurman and in that area in the 1890s.
Aug 29th, 2014 - 03:49 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@14 yes Churchill served as CO of the 6th Royal Scots Fusiliers in the trenches at “Plugstreet”
Aug 29th, 2014 - 04:30 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@13 agreed Isolde. Card dock and von Spee were friends who had served together in actions in China and indeed Craddock had a medal from the Kaiser for those actions.
Decades ago I travelled from Brasil up to California, and then on to Australia.
Aug 29th, 2014 - 08:27 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The itinerary included a stop in Tahiti, where despite what is generally thought, there is decent surf to be ridden.
That week we were introduced to the Mayor of Papeete, the capitol of French Polynesia, who was kind enough to give us a brief tour of the town and it's history. He mentioned that the German Fleet under Admiral Graf von Spee sailed in and attacked the town in 1914. I had never heard of this.
I asked him why they were attacking and he mentioned “ French targets of opportunity, ” specifically the coal ( not bunker fuel) stored on the island. There were a few fotos of the damage.
Apparently this same fleet went on to Chile where the Battle of Coronel took place.
@17 Botinho
Aug 29th, 2014 - 11:21 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You are partially correct. The reason that von Spee attacked Papete was bunkering coal, the lifeblood of fleets at that time. There was 2.500 tons of best Welsh steam coal stored on the island which the French set fire to as soon as Spees ships hove in sight. There was a fight and the antiquated French gunboat Zelee was sunk and the town and it's defences bombarded, using up irreplaceable ammunition which would be sorely needed at the Falklands battle.
Obrigado, Redpoll !
Aug 30th, 2014 - 12:59 am - Link - Report abuse 0Very helpful, and informative.
Now I would like to see this film someday.
De nada, botinho.
Aug 30th, 2014 - 01:21 am - Link - Report abuse 0Rather nearer home, a centenary which has been overlooked in Brazilian waters.
It was fought on 18th September 1914 off Trindade Island between two crack liners armed as merchant cruisers, the Cunarder Carmania and the German Cap Trafalgar.
They went at it hammer and tongs. Eventually the German ship sank but the Carmania was so badly damaged she only just limped into port
Quite a story which seems to have been forgotten.
@18 Redpoll,
Aug 30th, 2014 - 10:37 am - Link - Report abuse 0ln Mike Carlton's book, “First Victory 1914”, he asserts that von Spee fled across the Pacific, avoiding targets in Australia & the south-west Pacific because of the presence at Sydney of the brand new British-built battlecruiser HMAS Australia which was not only faster than any of his ships but also mounted 12” guns, which could outrange him.
The Australia was sent on a wild goose chase to New Guinea & was at Suva in Fiji when Coronel occurred.
Still hunting von Spee, the Australia was off Panama at the Battle of the Falklands.
lf only we had had Radar & Satellites in those days! lol!
Isolde,
Aug 30th, 2014 - 04:53 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Yes the HMAS Australia had the legs (25 knots) and the fire power on any of Spees ships. She wasn't a lucky ship even suffering a mutiny at Freemantle later in the war.
The British fleet in the Pacific was stretched pretty thin. The only warship patrolling the west coast of America from Alaska to Panama was the the ancient tub HCMS Rainbow, a training ship more suited for fishery protection.
Two of Spees squadron, the Nurnburg and the Leipzig had been reported from ports anywhere between Hawaii to Ecuador
Added to which the Panama Canal had recently been opened and the Admiralty thought that the Karlsrue was active in the Caribbean. She wasn't having been lost by an explosion of her magazines owing to defective ammo.
The Emden was still on the rampage in the Indian and Pacific oceans,(and that's quite a story on its own), and further west the Konigsberg still hadn't been brought to book.
Numerous troop and food convoys were on their way to UK and had to be escorted.it was one of these escorts HMAS Sydney which finally trapped the Emden at Keeling Island.
Redpoll,
Aug 30th, 2014 - 09:03 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Yes l have read about all that you say.
Most of my father's relatives were Navy people(except his father, who was in the RAF), so l am really interested in Naval history.
l knew that Japan was an ally in WWI, but l didn't know that they played an active part until l read about their actions in the Mediterranean, depth-charging German submarines while in a British convoy.
l had one great-uncle who was in the RN & then the RAN.
Loved his stories, now unfortunately passed on.
Ah well, no-one lives forever, so l read as many WWI biographies as l can get.
My apologies for my rather superficial post @ 22. Didnt know I was dealing with an expert and one can only post so much on this site without going into extensive detail.
Aug 30th, 2014 - 09:55 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Two books probabably long out of print.
“Coronel and After” by Lloyd Hirst and “Battleships in Action” by H.W.Wilson.
The latter, my great uncle, was naval correspondent to the Daily Mail and I have his annotated copy of that book when he prepared it for a second edition.
@24 redpoll,
Aug 31st, 2014 - 10:21 am - Link - Report abuse 0Thats OK, no offence taken.
l'm hardly an expert though! lol!
Just love Royal Naval history & read a lot about it.
l will endevour to get the books that you mention.
l've just ploughed through “Dreadnought” & “Castles of Steel” by Robert Massie.
Regards,
I
Isolde -
Aug 31st, 2014 - 04:51 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The book “ Dreadnought ” has been in my library for a two decades now. I could never find a copy here, and bought mine travelling up to New York.
Jackie Fisher, and his then successful modernization of the British Naval Fleet remains an impressive person along with his accomplishment. When this article appeared in Mersosul Press, that book was one of the first I dusted off and re-read again.
A maximum of 10 kn top speed, in the rough seas and weather common to either Tierra del Fuego, or even Cabo da Boa Esperança ( África do Sul ), including coal supply “colliers ” bobbing around behind the fleet, is a frightening thought even today. Brave men, on both sides, one and all.
“ Targets of opportunity ” in the South Atlantic and Pacific, then and then again 20 years later with the many sinking's of commercial shipping tonnage, climaxed with the battle and ultimately the scuttling of the Graf Spee in Montevideo. ( it is more commonly known here as the Batalha do Rio da Plata, or Rio de la Plata, than the River Plate, by the way ).
And yet again in and around the cold Falkland seas in 1982. History repeats itself. Looking out the window to our part of the South Atlantic, I wonder how many times more.
Botinho,
Aug 31st, 2014 - 07:29 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Coronel and the Falklands
A player albeit in a minor key in both actions was HMS Canopus.
At colonel her captain told Craddock she could only steam 12 knots to join his fleet.
Actually she could turn a little more than 15 knots but the engineer officer was a right moaner and misled his captain. If the Canopus had been in the line at Coronel, would it have made any difference to the result? Probably not but that's whatifery.
Later she was stranded intentionally at the Falklands and used as a harbour defence battery. She only fired once and that was a practice round which ricocheted through the Gneisnaus funnel causing von Spee to turn away when he had the entire British squadron caught cold turkey, coaling at. Stanley.
With no disrespect to the present Brazilian Navy, their professional competence under admirals Barroso and later Tamandare in the war against Paraguay was lamentable to say the least. Yes, they won in the end and no doubt Brazilian historians take a different view on that.
The performance in the Civil War (Peixoto v de Mello). Some strange inventions were used in that conflict, including the Niteroi equipped with the Zelinsky gun, a primitive form of rocket but only one man knew how to fire it and when the time came he judiciously hid him in his cabin.
Then there was the Piritini, a semi submersible designed to fire a 30ft torpedo which the crew wisely declined to take to sea.
Then there was the battleship Aquidibao, torpedoed at Santa Caterina Island but that's another story. It all goes to show that technology without training, maintenance and discipline counts for nothing.
@26 BOTINHO,
Aug 31st, 2014 - 09:06 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@27 redpoll,
The Germans didn't know how woeful Canopus was.
All they knew was that she was a Battleship & they didn't know where she was.
That alone was useful as a scare tactic(not that the Germans are “scared”of anything!)
But, as you say, she did redeem herself by firing on the German squadron & buying time for Sturdee's ships.
Without her sharp-eyed men, the situation could have become decidedly sticky.
*********************************************************************
Just for interest,we were talking to a WWII sailor once & he told us that right near the end of the war, the corvette that he was serving in, off the coast of New Guinea spotted what they thought was a Japanese submarine on the surface.
lt didn't appear to have seen them(odd?)so they attacked.
He said that they clobbered it with everything that they had & were hitting it too. But it wouldn't sink.
So they went in closer & then they saw that it was a huge tree that had been carried down on of the mighty rivers in NG!
Good for target practice, l suppose.
Cheers.
Nice story Isolde.
Aug 31st, 2014 - 10:15 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I didnt know corvettes had served in the Pacific. I only know about the Exeter of River Plate fame who meet her end in those waters
In the 82 war I think an awful lot of whales met their destiny by being mistakely depth charged as submarine contacts.Poor buggers but such is war!
I had hoped to include a chapter in my book about Operation Tabarin, but apart from one book which I cant get In Uruguay, the info is pretty sparse, so any pointers or info you can give would be more than gratefully received.
Nice to have an intelligent discussion without the intervention of Clunkie, busy pullulating petunias in his Patagonian turnip field
Saludos
I agree redpoll + isolde-
Sep 01st, 2014 - 01:07 am - Link - Report abuse 0A nice , civil, informative discussion here, without the profanities.
Muito Obrigado !
I try not to use profanities. A bit of gentle ridicule and sarcasm is more effective against the trolls and idiots It may be water off a ducks back to them but it makes them look rather silly to other posters
Sep 01st, 2014 - 02:59 am - Link - Report abuse 0Commenting for this story is now closed.
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