MercoPress. South Atlantic News Agency
Judge Griesa schedules new hearing; Argentina appeals to United Nations on holdout case
The US judge overseeing litigation by Argentina and creditors who did not participate in the country's past debt restructurings scheduled a hearing to assess whether Citigroup Inc (C.N) should be forced to comply with a subpoena. Read full article
Comments
Disclaimer & comment rulesA good idea that will help future nations when borrowing money, but this will not help any country that took out there loans before this law comes into effect! so argentina will have to try something else.
Aug 30th, 2014 - 10:34 am - Link - Report abuse 0It's already in place, internationally.
Aug 30th, 2014 - 11:05 am - Link - Report abuse 0Behind the times as usual.
Still a jaunt to NY could see Kickitoff spending a night or two in Griesa’s lock-up. Now that would be news.
Genocide in Iraq.
Aug 30th, 2014 - 11:13 am - Link - Report abuse 0Threat of European war in Ukraine.
Refugee crisis In Turkey and Jordan.
Ebola in West Africa.
Financial mismanagement in Argentina.
Which of five above should the UN deal with and which should they treat with utter disbelief???
Argentina treats it like their private whinging club, I can already see the delegates removing the translation ear pieces from behind their ears and mouthing, “here we go again!”
They never miss a chance to embarrass themselves on the world stage.
Aug 30th, 2014 - 11:30 am - Link - Report abuse 0Wtf would the UN care about bonds?
Cfk is taking the nutbag Chavez place.
Gads these people are tiresome.
It's the Argentine Government that has wrecked the country's finance. They should try accepting responsibility and stop this unseemly wriggling and whining.
Aug 30th, 2014 - 01:17 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Urgh, these people make my teeth itch. This constant whinging actually makes one feel a little sullied , it's like a noxious cloud of gas continuously emanating from La Casa Rosada seeping into the fabric of society.
Urgh! What horrid little men.
There's a very good chance that Griesa will lock up the Argentine Government representative for contempt of court.
Aug 30th, 2014 - 02:07 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The Judge was absolutely correct in applying the law (which the Argentines agreed to be bound by when they entered debt restructuring) that all investors have a right to receive compensation and that a country cannot ignore one group, simply because they take a dislike to them, or that they refuse to be bound by unfair terms.
The real problem is not 'vulture' funds, it is countries that default in their obligations to pay debt and then expect the world to forgive that debt in its entirety and let the country run up another debt.
If someone borrows money, they have a legal obligation to return it.
If they do not return it, then they can expect the people they borrowed it from to either A) seize assets commensurate with the debt or B) prevent that person from ever trading with anyone else without paying their debts first.
Despite Argentina's huge natural resources, they are still not able to extract more oil than they consume. They are therefore dependant on the rest of the world for the natural resources they need. They will find out, when the lights go out, that if you do not pay your debts, then you will be cut off from the rest of the world.
It will be a painful lesson to learn.
None of the countries that Argentina is seeking to recruit to their cause will have good credit records, but none of them will want to upset the people they do buy from - because of the likely consequences.
No Payment = No Supply.
It doesn't take a genius to understand this, but the morons at the Casa Rosada and Argentine Government refuse to accept the truth.
But then they've deceived their own population for years about their claims on the Falkland Islands, so Self-Delusion is perfectly normal to them.
@6
Aug 30th, 2014 - 02:15 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Very well put. An accurate, concise and jargon-free summary.
Thanks Nigel.
RESTRUCTURING, there should be no need for restructuring if the country that borrowed the money paid it back. Are we EXPECTING that all governments that borrow money do NOT pay its debts? So I would ask “ Who in their right minds are going to lend money to a country that is EXPECTING to RESTRUCTURE”
Aug 30th, 2014 - 02:19 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Cretina & her team should initiate a malpractice claim against Cleary Gottlieb for not including a collective action clause in the original bonds. Such a clause would have prevented this small number of holdouts from pursuing full payment on the original bonds. To now create an international law that would constructively incorporate a CAC into all bond issues might be okay, but to apply any such law to the original Arg bond issue would be ex post facto which is prohibited under the New York (US) law selected by Arg when it issued the original bonds.
Aug 30th, 2014 - 02:31 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Almost all bond issues now specifically include an express CAC. I wonder whether the prospect of a malpractice suit is driving Cleary's advice in any way...
After Argentina’s 2001 Default most of the newly emitted bonds imply the Collective Action Clause (CAC) A collective Action clause (CAC) allows a supermajority of bondholders (75%) to agree to a debt restructuring that is legally binding on all holders of the bond, including those who vote against the restructuring.
Aug 30th, 2014 - 02:48 pm - Link - Report abuse 0BUT, This CAC is NOT implied in Argentina’s repudiated old bonds!
Accordingly, Argentina MUST fulfill the bond contracts and repay the debt to the holdouts!
Come on now, based on the latest two or three pictures Griesa has gone through Mummification right?
Aug 30th, 2014 - 02:50 pm - Link - Report abuse 0In this box we have 53 Fijian UN peace keepers in the hands of religious fanatics, with a pathological habit for decapitation.
Aug 30th, 2014 - 02:57 pm - Link - Report abuse 0In the other box we have a dishonest crowd of cheating thiefs seeking to avoid the internationally recognised process of law.
Which one should we open and which one should we dump in the waste paper bin?
Difficult choice, not!
“His [Griesa’s] interpretation of the pari-passu clause makes no sense. . . . ,” he said.
Aug 30th, 2014 - 03:51 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Yes, Elvis, in your context - this is correct - but only if you beleive that rotting roadkill rightfully shouldn't be obligated to perform per their previous contractual committments. In fact, Elvis, making any agreement with rotting roadkill and then expecting them to HONOR it makes no sense. So, one might reasonably conclude that dealing with rotting roadkill with any expectation of any performance on their part - makes no sense. So, Elvis, I concur. It makes no sense.
Elvis Kissoff, your Yankee Amigos salute you - even though it MAKES NO SENSE.
@8. I'm with you. I've already written to my MP, a Secretary of State, pointing out that this criminal, pariah, rogue, enemy state must not be supported by the UK. What sort of honest, responsible bond issuer would issue an ultimatum to bondholders rather than negotiate. Reading the “Investments” section of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elliott_Management_Corporation it appears that Paul Singer pays as much attention to principles as to profit. Everyone who has principles should contact their political representative with the same message. Any state that acts honestly has nothing to fear. There is no need to provide a mechanism to enable argieland to evade future crimes.
Aug 30th, 2014 - 04:05 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@12 rc
Aug 30th, 2014 - 04:12 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I agree, but would go further. I think it is disgusting that the K-gang take up so much valuable time and resources at the UN with their constant whingeing and moaning. This distracts from more important issues facing the world today. They seem to treat the UN as a personal Customer Feedback box, unhappy with their lot in the world. Like it is the world's fault, not theirs. If they put this kind of effort in at home they wouldn't be in such a mess.
Meanwhile, they should pay-up, and shut-up.
I agree that Argentina should pay its debts in full. I also know that this same nationality is always looking for an opportunity to not repay their obligations when they perceive things are not going their way.
Aug 30th, 2014 - 05:40 pm - Link - Report abuse 0We know that a few oil companies are willing to risk to develop the shale fields, and certainly China for political as well as food supply, but besides those gamblers, who is willing to risk good money after bad with Argentines?
The answer is many. Call the idiots, fools and being just plain stupid, but this Peronist Ponzi scheme will continue as long as the world refuses to severely punish them with severe sanctions.
...Perhaps we can arrange for an asset forfeiture of Patagonia....seems like a fair trade...
a fool like kic-ill can only act under a super fool like ck.
Aug 30th, 2014 - 06:33 pm - Link - Report abuse 0now he bores the un with his bloody stories, another stage where he will be thrown off.
what will be the next?: the heaven
@11 mamarracho No. 2
Aug 30th, 2014 - 07:53 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Just as you have been through a “mamarachificación”! ¡Que payaso!
Comment removed by the editor.
Aug 30th, 2014 - 09:35 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Please stop shouting. As soon as I see a post that is mostly in CAPITALS, I just scroll past it. Especially yours Holdout.from.Germany
Aug 30th, 2014 - 11:02 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Why doesn't anyone understand what Kisoff wants ?? it's quite simple : We borrow money, promise to pay it back, when payment comes due, we act surprised, we complain the lenders are vultures, and we don't pay it back...
Aug 30th, 2014 - 11:42 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Why doesn't he and CFK appeal to the Pope ??
Jack, they already have tried it. He brushed them aside. They are are trying every forum, court. platform etc in the world.
Aug 31st, 2014 - 01:30 am - Link - Report abuse 0No joy. Eventually they will pay, or have it taken from them.
How embarrassing!
If anyone lends them money in the future, the interest rates will be shockingly high.
I expect the Chinese to pull out if this continues. No wonder the Chins insisted that the current agreed, yet unpaid, loans are via the jurisdiction of the English Courts.
Not stupid, those Chinese chaps!
# 3 ” Argentina treats it like their private whinging club, I can already see the delegates removing the translation ear pieces from behind their ears and mouthing, “here we go again!”
Aug 31st, 2014 - 01:49 am - Link - Report abuse 0Agreed . Hector and the rest of his gang treat the UN as the recourse of last resort. Whenever he heads there, the world knows that they are desperate. The SG should tell him to stop wasting the world bodies time, grow up and deal with Argentina's many issues in an adult way.
What a bunch of serial whingers!
It's interesting that even the opposition parties in Argentina no longer support their incompetent government.
Equally, many 'loyalists' are jumping ship before it sinks. Like the rats they are..
Aug 31st, 2014 - 02:08 am - Link - Report abuse 0>19
Aug 31st, 2014 - 10:37 am - Link - Report abuse 0Whilst your suggestion sounds sensible, you know that Argentina will default on the bonds in 7 years time. It's inevitable. The biggest problem though is the mad witch. She and her supporters would lose face if they made a deal with the Hedge Funds. You may have to wait for a new administration to take over (and blame the previous one) for a settlement. Even then, they won't pay all the debt - only enough to get the Judge off their back and allow access to the World Bank.
Argentina will be faced with crippling interest rates because of their default. A bit like the 'PayDay' loan companies that sprang up in the wake of the financial crisis, because credit was hard to get. Argentina will live hand to mouth and pay double the costs of other countries, but they will have no choice in this. No-one will lend to them without surety, because of their appalling record.
The Chinese will milk this situation for all they are worth. Chinese companies have built roads and industry all over Africa, just to get at the resources. The insatiable Chinese economic miracle needs raw materials and Argentina has plenty of those.
We can expect an almost Chinese takeover, all over Argentina, as more and more Chinese migrate to Argentina to buy up cheap land and resources. This might become even more important to Beijing, if their normal source of oil (Iran & Russia) becomes 'radioactive' over the coming years. Not that I'm expecting World War 3, but certainly when the Kremlin starts issuing threats to tyhe EU & USA over Ukraine, reminding them that Russia has nuclear weapons, then we know the madman in the Kremlin has finally flipped his lid and either a coup is imminent, or we had better start building nuclear bunkers.
Argentina's resources would be a source of food and oil for hundreds of millions of Chinese. It's only a matter of getting rid of those other pesky colonists. The Spanish and Italian ones.
@20. You need to understand that “Holdout.from.Germany” like argieland, is nazi. Never mind current terminology. Argieland is nazi. Nationalist, state-controlled, “superiority”. In the 30s and 40s didn't the nazis see themselves as genetically superior? And argies believe themselves to be...........? What did nazis do with “others”? They invaded, conquered and murdered. Argieland isn't quite as successful. One out of three. Never mind, justice for those that were ripped off. You can't tell me that those who were FORCED to accept a 70% “haircut” wouldn't be delighted to see argieland FORCED to pay. Might still be an option for legal action citing “coercion”.
Aug 31st, 2014 - 01:38 pm - Link - Report abuse 0What is it with the “ripped off”? We got ripped off so everyone else must suffer?
Support those who fight. Fight yourselves. Cowards!
”Axel Kicillof and Hector Timerman will present a project before the United Nations aimed at ... avoiding “vulture funds’ (hedge funds) attack on sovereign nations.”
Aug 31st, 2014 - 11:04 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Oh, really?
Germany’s Finance Minister Wolfgang Schäuble said: “In Argentina the holdouts are insulted and called “vultures”, “but Argentina caused the problem, not the funds”
“Argentina has lived for decades beyond its means, it does not pay its debts ...” he added. “Problems arise when you spend more than you earn,” Schäuble stated.
- but of course the two financial Einsteins, Kicillof and Timerman, know much more about economy than the German Finance Minister; Argentina is so much more succesful than Germany ... or sumthin'
@27
Sep 01st, 2014 - 09:49 am - Link - Report abuse 0Sums it up pretty well, when will Argentina learn humility, and learn by their mistakes.What mistakes I hear the Argies say.
@28. An important word there. “Humility”. At what point in the last 200 years has argieland ever admitted that it was wrong? But no-one has NEVER been wrong. But La Presidente is female. Incapable of admitting error. There is, fortunately, no hope for argieland.
Sep 01st, 2014 - 10:39 am - Link - Report abuse 0“Humility”/“humildad” is not a word in the Argentine vocabulary. For example
Sep 01st, 2014 - 01:43 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“¿En qué se parece Superman a un argentino humilde? En que ninguno de los dos existe.” (Why does Superman look like a humble Argentine? The fact that neither exists!)
@28
Sep 01st, 2014 - 02:46 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Maybe our attitude is due to the fact that for 200 year, the rest of the world has always said that NOTHING IS THEIR FAULT!
Never... everything is always our fault, according to you foreigners.
Ever thought of that?
@31
Sep 01st, 2014 - 03:29 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The mess your politicians are making of your country is both yours and their fault.
You have a country that is so rich in resources and potential but your administration/politicians keep making a mess of it.
Your politicians only objective seems to be how long can they stay in power and make as much for themselves as they can.
Argentina is poor and has no resources. Have some dignity and stop at least that lie.
Sep 01st, 2014 - 03:35 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Most importantly, you evaded my question. Have foreigners EVER done anything wrong? Or like the rest here you also put forth that they are 100% infallible Gods that have never erred?
The subject here is Argentina's 2nd default, and the CFK government's arrogance in dealing with it, and there is absolutely nothing to be gained by trying to compare Argentina's and other countries past mistakes, as a way to justify CFK's attitude. She caused the problem, the problem is hers, she's got to solve it. Punto final.
Sep 01st, 2014 - 10:11 pm - Link - Report abuse 0-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Sep 02nd, 2014 - 02:41 am - Link - Report abuse 0Hash: SHA1
Who cares if this yank robber baron judge goes on or not. For the European bond holders it is out of his hands. A proper English judge will fix this.
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Haha! Looks like Hepatia is sliding off the grid. ..
Sep 03rd, 2014 - 11:07 am - Link - Report abuse 0lol!
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Sep 04th, 2014 - 09:31 am - Link - Report abuse 0Hash: SHA1
at 36
That the best you can do. Ha Ha. You will have to do better. Your Wall St robber barons masters expect more. Dumb yank.
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Looks like Hepatia B Bomber has a few technical problems.
Sep 04th, 2014 - 01:49 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Is your dial-up internet connection failing? Can't afford a new laptop? Downloading free software because you have no USD?
Haha!
The End is Nigh! Started stockpiling sugar yet?
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Sep 05th, 2014 - 04:59 am - Link - Report abuse 0Hash: SHA1
at 38
Looks like this is the best that yankee boy / islen can do. He cannot address the article. Talks about technical problems. It is true that when the NBN finally arrives it may be not worth much but its better than your yank junk. And don't need US dollars. British currency is much better.
I wonder what yankee boy will say when an English judge fixes his dumb yank judge's mess.
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So we have proof that Hepatia is British Bomber. He has lied and denied it for so long. Obviously every thing he says can be judged in the light of this.
Sep 05th, 2014 - 11:08 am - Link - Report abuse 0What a ridiculous little man.
Stop pretending to be British. It's just embarrassing yourself. You have never even visited the UK, have you?
Foolish Fraud.
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Sep 05th, 2014 - 11:44 am - Link - Report abuse 0Hash: SHA1
at 40
yankee boy / islen you have nothing. What proof. Dumb yank. ha ha.
Answer the question. What are you going to say when a proper English judge trashes your robber baron yank judge. Haven't thought about that. Start now.
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I will wait for your insane prediction to come true before I deign to comment on such foolish speculation.
Sep 05th, 2014 - 12:42 pm - Link - Report abuse 0PS: on another thread your crappy Linux code provided sufficient proof when you swapped username. The ID was the same.
:)
Ilsen,
Sep 05th, 2014 - 03:44 pm - Link - Report abuse 0the insanity expressed in #41 and previous posts, is only matched by the “Brasileiro”....Hippy and Brazzo must be 1st cousins..
What do these guys eat in the morning ? their own poop ?
Lol @ jack.
Sep 06th, 2014 - 01:31 pm - Link - Report abuse 0:)
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