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UK and Germany main beneficiaries of Spain's brain drain

Wednesday, September 3rd 2014 - 05:26 UTC
Full article 82 comments

Spain is among the European countries hardest hit by the so-called 'brain drain' effect with thousands of professionals including nurses and teachers taking steps to leave the country in recent years, new figures from the European Union show. Read full article


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  • ilsen

    I wonder if CD2 will turn up warning of the dangers of immigration and the 'end of times' for the UK?
    Maybe paulconejo will rock up claiming that this is further proof of the 'failure' of Britain?

    Seriously though, London is the most popular destination for young, mobile professionals.
    I wonder why that is?
    Culture, Art, History, Diversity, Tolerance, Freedom, Creativity?
    Highest Potential Earnings?

    Vote now!

    (... only if permitted in your country of residence...)

    Sep 03rd, 2014 - 09:54 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Briton


    Sep 03rd, 2014 - 11:06 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • paulcedron

    Migration could have a positive and negative impact to the host nation.
    In the case of Argentina, for instance, we receive tens of thousands of immigrants from Bolivia, Perú and Paraguay who get free health care and education at the expense of the Argentinian taxpayer.
    Now they also demand a free house.
    All of that while their governments look away..

    Guess it is more or less the same with those +/- 1 million Brits living in Spain.
    Under the principles of freedom of movement, they get free access to Spanish GPs and, if they become permanent residents, to hospital treatment at the expense of Spanish taxpayers.

    Sapin, like Argentina, should take care of their own citizens instead of helping these opportunists.

    Sep 03rd, 2014 - 11:16 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Briton

    Perhaps Paul, you are learning the hard way and appreciate what we British have to put up with,
    some people will do anything and everything for a free ride.

    [ but not all of them]

    Sep 03rd, 2014 - 11:25 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ilsen

    Who is Sapin? Is he like Le Lapin?

    so some old Brits retire that Spain to relax and spend some money?
    Whilst the bright young Spanish come to London, work, pay tax, contribute to the economy and the culture life?
    Seems perfectly reasonable to me.

    Sep 03rd, 2014 - 12:15 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Britworker

    Paul there is no comparison, the vast majority of Brits that live in Spain have bought and paid for their property outright, they don't claim benefits at all and are mostly retired with very large sums of money to spend.

    Sep 03rd, 2014 - 12:34 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • aussiesunshinee

    This is the beauty of The movement of people from one member country
    to another whether you are moving because of retirement or work related issues....something that the UK will lose if they abandon the EU....ummmmm

    Sep 03rd, 2014 - 12:46 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Anglotino

    Immigration has helped to make my country one of the world's most stable and prosperous nations.

    I'm all for it.

    Nearly 7 million Aussies were born in other countries. Including my flatmates (Colombian), every single neighbouring house (Indian, Italian, Japanese), my step mum, step brother (British), ex (Chilean), one of my hockey coaches (Canadian), two of my uni tutors (Irish, Romanian) this semester, my mates (Swiss, Kiwi, Uruguayan, Ukrainian, Lebanese), my accountant (Greek) and the list goes on.

    Keep them coming. I think we are gaining about a quarter of a million every year.

    Also one of the reasons that Australia is one if the few countries not expecting population decline this century. Indeed we are on track to overtake Spain in population and even eventually Argentina eventually.

    Sep 03rd, 2014 - 01:28 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • aussiesunshinee

    *3 British people get free excess to GPs and hospitals because they are entitled to it under EU law.........
    *8 Immigration and (good British administration) has made Australia what it is

    Sep 03rd, 2014 - 01:35 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Condorito

    “In the case of Argentina, for instance, we receive tens of thousands of immigrants from Bolivia, Perú and Paraguay who get free health care and education at the expense of the Argentinian taxpayer.”

    Yes and in one generation they speak like Argies and look like Wachiturros.

    Sep 03rd, 2014 - 01:39 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ilsen

    Why should British living in Spain not have access to health care?
    It is EU law.
    They get free health care at home in UK. How are they 'opportunists'?

    The young Spanish in the UK get free and better health care in the UK.
    It's EU law.
    Many of these young Spanish will marry and become UK citizens and have access to free health care for their long future lives.
    It's EU law.
    maybe they are opportunists? But that's ok,
    It's EU law.!

    I think you should learn more about the EU before you post regarding your beloved British.
    Or about Spain. Or about anything concerning Europe really. ...

    Sep 03rd, 2014 - 01:55 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ChrisR

    @ 7 Idiotasunshinee

    Can you really believe that Spain is going to turn away retirees and anybody who can help fund them and ease Spain's way out of the shit they got themselves in? Don't be so stupid.

    WHEN the UK leave the EU they will be £50 Million PER DAY better off by not having to fund the corrupt gravy train any more.

    Sep 03rd, 2014 - 01:55 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • paulcedron

    10 condorito
    do not forget the tens of thousands of chilenos who migrated to our patagonia.
    they also look like wachiturros

    Sep 03rd, 2014 - 02:16 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Troy Tempest

    13 crying niño

    Don't forget the 10,000's Argentinians who will be clambering to move to Chile for jobs, a decent education, a stable economy, lower crime, and Rule by Law - things that you have let erode away.

    Sep 03rd, 2014 - 02:34 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • aussiesunshinee

    *11 British does not have better health care than Spain.One only has to
    read the British papers to find the sorry way patients are treated in the UK by the NHS.
    the latest case has been this little chap with the brain tumor whose parents were treated
    like criminals and chased all the way to Spain....
    *12 Gelipollas Chris.
    when The UK leaves the EU. British ex patriots from all over Europe will return to the UK as they will no longer be able to have free excess to hospitals and GPs and that will crush the NHS when they return.....keep those 50 million saved as you will need it.

    Sep 03rd, 2014 - 03:08 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Condorito

    @13 paul
    Yep, you are a Wachiturro nation now!
    At least it gives you an argument against those who say you are European squatters.

    Conversely we are receiving large numbers of ethnically European Argies. My coffee this morning was served by a lovely blue-eyed lady with an Argie accent. This must be a good thing, right?

    Sep 03rd, 2014 - 04:00 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Conqueror

    @3. Yeah. Pity spain can't manage reciprocity. Perhaps you could compare argie, spanish and British “benefits”. Giving all the actual checkable figures. Don't forget to include conditions, periods of payment etc. Is your immigration in compliance with your constitution? If so, why is it about the only thing?
    @7. Can't wait. In the meantime, moving (too slowly) to exclude foreigners from benefits. Migrate to work and pay taxes. Or else.
    @9. British people get free ACCESS to GPs and hospitals because they've PAID for it. Unlike the scrounging foreigners that try to get it under stupid EU law. I wouldn't permit any immigrant access to UK benefits until they have paid 10 years of contributions. And then only for a limited period and simple ailments. For example, no pregnant females to be allowed into the UK. On the next plane back to where they came from.
    @13. Are your “chilenos” that migrated to “your” patagonia the same “Chilotes” that you expelled? How many did you murder in your “Conquest of the Desert”? So many things come back to your crimes against humanity, don't they? It's good, isn't it? We used to just date your crimes back to 1811. Then various argies insisted that “they” were there long before. Looks like all crimes against humanity in latin america from 1493 onwards can be attributed to argies. Terrific. 521 years of argie crimes. Anybody surprised that argies have been committing crimes for over 500 years? Isn't it time they were brought to justice?
    @15. The “little chap” as you call him, because you can't be bothered to look up his name (Ashya), has only an 80% chance of living for 5 years WITH proton beam therapy. IF it works. And how many people have donated their own hard-earned money because these two wanted to make a media splash? They wanted to sell their spanish “holiday home”. And that needed both of them and the kid? Rubbish. Spain is suddenly going to expel +/- a million taxpayers? Spain couldn't afford to expel 100!

    Sep 03rd, 2014 - 04:04 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Usurping Pirate

    Britain is also benefitting from the Argentine brain drain .You cannot move for Argies in London and Cambridge , and they are all far better ambassadors for the country than that deranged ex trolly dolly or the K twerps who troll on here .

    Sep 03rd, 2014 - 04:51 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Briton

    If the British withdraw from the EU [and it will ]
    I can’t see all ex brits returning home,
    Its not as simple as that,
    They will still have some sort of free care from being in the country for more than a couple of years,

    Is this not the case of all brits that immigrate to places like Australia or the USA or anywhere else,

    And if they don’t provide some form of free care then you will have to take out insurance against any future problems,

    Some people do tend to panic to much,
    We thinks Britain will benefit greatly if we pull out and get away from some of their stupid crazy ideas like Hoovers hairdryers electric kettles and the like,

    Eye say leave the EU and be friends, rather than stay in and be controlled like a toy.

    Just a moving opinion..

    Sep 03rd, 2014 - 06:51 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • CabezaDura2

    Just make the cuts that have to be done, make the economy prosperous again and they will return.

    Sep 03rd, 2014 - 09:48 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • paulcedron

    “Yep, you are a Wachiturro nation now!”
    Lol. Good one.
    Guess those are the risks of being so generous with our neighbour countries.

    “My coffee this morning was served by a lovely blue-eyed lady with an Argie accent. This must be a good thing, right”
    Yes, surely it is a good thing.
    My coffee, on the other hand, was served by an ugly lady with Chilean accent.
    It seems I was not as lucky as you.

    11 Mrs Ilsen
    Better healthcare in little Britain?
    Are you joking or are you a complete ignorant?

    “More children die unnecessarily in Britain than in any of 14 other western European countries, according to a study which found that thousands of lives could be saved each year.”

    “A tripling in annual NHS budget to £110 billions, and Britain is still inflicted with the worst health care in Western Europe. Even the BMA admits that 2012 was a bad year for the NHS, and with budgets increasingly being allocated from patient heath care to pay NHS employee pay rises, 2013 looks set to be an even worse year.”

    “Patient capacity at British hospitals has dropped to the second-worst level in Europe, maintains an international report. The maximum occupancy rate was exceeded last year, and waiting for a bed seems to have become commonplace.”

    Sep 04th, 2014 - 02:43 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Troy Tempest

    21 Petty Pablo the racist

    “My coffee, on the other hand, was served by an ugly lady with Chilean accent.”

    Petty and nasty retort little niño - not to mention the overtones of racial prejudice.

    All your snide racist remarks about your racially inferior neighbours, and your whataboutery regarding other nations, is not going to change Argentina's downward economic and social spiral due to your corruption, dishonesty, and I'll-founded conceit.

    What's the Blue rate now, 15/1 ??

    Inflation must be pegged around 50% for this year, right??

    :-) that's right, isn't it ???

    Planning any trips outside the country in the foreseeable future?

    You'll have to muck out a lot of stalls before you can go to Hawaii.

    ...if you have a job, that is.

    Never mind, the ruling elite of K's and Peronists have vastly disproportionate wealth compared to you- tipping stable boys a few pesos is nothing to them.

    Sep 04th, 2014 - 03:26 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Anglotino

    Even after all Paul's whining, the fact is that people prefer living in the UK than either Spain or Argentina.

    Argentina was once nation of immigration and is now a nation of emigration.

    Spain has had its population DECLINE because so many people are leaving. Even the weather can't keep the British retires who are leaving in drives together with the youngest and most productive Spaniards.

    So much so, that it is now estimated that Spain's deaths will exceed its births from 2017. And this will get worse because countries such as Colombia that once provided migrants are now themselves booming and becoming a magnet for migrants.

    Sep 04th, 2014 - 05:09 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • CabezaDura2

    23. Native populations all over the western world decline because of feminism. Some countries decide to solve it by importing immigrants like the Anglo Saxon countries and North West Europe does. Others refuse to do so and face economical chronic recession like Italy, Portugal and Spain, but in the longer term they are spared the costs of policing, social clashes, riots, schooling to have migrant kids understand the language and diversity related problems that we are seeing in other countries.

    I think its time countries are asked honestly whether in order to maintain the welfare state and lifestyle they have, they accept their gradual removal of their identity as a country or else they retire much later and have at least two kids peer family who can support them when they retire.

    I have run into the conclusion that youu can't have one without the other.

    Sep 04th, 2014 - 05:37 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ilsen

    Hilarious! Feminism is to blame for all the evils in world!
    Wow, I didn't realise the depth of your insecurity! As ElaineB and others have explained previously on other threads, Feminism is about equality of opportunity. Not some Women vs Men type argument. Anyway, it is out of the box now. You can't put it back in. Not unless you want to join the Taliban and they ultimately failed.
    Another thing. The world has 9 Billion people and finite resources. Do you want us to breed like locusts? Breed ourselves into starvation? Food wars? Water wars? We need less people, not more.
    Back on topic.
    No one has answered my question@1
    Why is London the most popular destination for young professionals?

    Sep 04th, 2014 - 08:21 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Briton

    The N.H.S. is the best in the world bar none,

    of course other countries who have private care may have more equipment,
    and even better conditions
    but surely its how it is run that counts,

    Cameron is trying his best to privatise ours,
    good for the rich and profit makers, bad news for the poor,

    but what ever way you may look at it no one should be charged for emergency operations or life saving surgery,

    just an opinion.

    Sep 04th, 2014 - 09:57 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Heisenbergcontext

    @24 & @25

    Ilsen, CD2: Feminism is one of those words that means different things to different people. Ask two self-proclaimed 'feminists' how they define the term and you'll see what I mean. It's meaningless without greater context.

    The reasons for low birthrate are a lot more complicated than ( I'll call it ) female emancipation. It's part of the equation, certainly, but just one part. Others include: two generations increasingly unwillingly to make the sacrifices necessary to raise children ( there's not an app for changing nappies ), the incredible expense of raising them in the West and the degree to which family bonds have loosened ( fewer grandparents, aunts, uncles etc... to give young couples a break.

    It's an issue governments are aware of ( we have a baby bonus down under ) but will eventually have to addressed comprehensively. Men & women's roles are evolving. Men have been keeping women barefoot and pregnant for millenia. Unsurprisingly women have developed a fair bit of resentment over this state of affairs. I take the long view, maybe in a couple of generations they''ll stop being angry and start having babies because they actually want to.

    Sep 04th, 2014 - 10:55 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ilsen

    Western women are currently having babies they don't want?
    Whoa boy! I was almost with you up to that point.

    CD2's problem is that he struggles to comprehend the idea of a woman who is
    of equal or greater intelligence
    of equal or greater education
    has equal or greater earning power
    and is financially independent

    and who is with a man because she likes him, but doesn't need him.

    Although he might have to come to London to meet one.
    ta ta for now!

    Sep 04th, 2014 - 11:36 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Heisenbergcontext


    Ilsen, my last sentence wasn't intended to be entirely seriously, but yes, some western women ( and their partners ) do indeed have children they didn't want. I've seen the results...

    Sep 04th, 2014 - 11:44 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • paulcedron

    “blablabla..., is not going to change Argentina's downward economic and social spiral due to your corruption, dishonesty, and I'll-founded conceit.”

    and who is talking about argentina´s downward economic and social spiral and blablabla, you nabo?
    this thread is not about that, little toy.

    the thing is, while many countries send their young professionals to england, england sends their criminals worldwide.
    it seems is their most important export.

    “UK's most-wanted criminals hiding in Spain named”

    “British tourist arrested for 'battering father to death in fight at Spanish campsite' could have been rowing with him over spilt drink”

    Sep 04th, 2014 - 12:29 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Troy Tempest

    30 crying niño

    you already went off topic yourself, bringing Argentina into it.

    comparing Argentinian ponies and practices to those of the UK

    making disdainful racist comments about Chilesns moving to your country.

    As I said, your criticisms of others and your hate for other ethnicities, will not help the situation you created for yourselves in Argentina.

    Meanwhile, Chileans will be bargain hunting in Argentina, and Argentinesns will soon be begging to move there for jobs and security.

    The 'friends' you abused in the past, are laughing at you now.

    Sep 04th, 2014 - 01:15 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • paulcedron

    why racist?
    to say that someone is ugly is not being racist, you dumbass.
    you lot are the only racists here.
    read your own comments, the comments of that imbecile conqueror, etc and you will realize it.

    Sep 04th, 2014 - 01:25 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ilsen

    This is about thousands of young people, some of the brightest and best, leaving their homeland. We know why they are leaving.
    I asked for opinions on why they choose the UK over other places.

    The fact that a few crimminal idiots run away to Spain is irrelevant. Spain gets maybe 100 criminals, UK gets thousands of multilingual graduates to boost the economy.
    Sounds good if you are British. Sorry Spain, (not really! )

    All the best people have already left Argentina also. I know. I keep meeting them in London.

    Sep 04th, 2014 - 01:37 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Condorito

    @Ilsen, CD and Heisenbergcontext

    I agree with Heisenbergcontext @27

    “Development” is one of the main factor in falling birth rates. Development means each individual is required to put more into the nation's economy to create/maintain all those things that give a nation developed status. That production comes at a cost. It might not be so obvious if you born in to a developed country, but it is very obvious when you have lived through the changes (probably Heisenberg's case to some degree :)

    It is also easy to see why someone might blame feminism for many of the changes, but it really isn't the case. IMO feminism is cynically exploited by governments to squeeze more productivity out of the population. In the unending quest for growth, getting more women in to the work force is low hanging fruit.

    I have seen implied on here that our society is sexist, something I contest. Our society is matriarchal. The vast majority of women here prefer to raise a family than to work. For those who want to (or have to) work there are equal opportunities.

    You say no one has answered your question @1, but we have:
    Answer: the cream always floats to the top, as exemplified by yesterday's morning coffee:

    “My [condorito's] coffee this morning was served by a lovely blue-eyed lady with an Argie accent.”

    ”My [paul's] coffee, on the other hand, was served by an ugly lady with Chilean accent.“

    ”It seems I [paul] was not as lucky as you [condorito].”

    Sep 04th, 2014 - 03:21 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Troy Tempest

    32 niño

    You are saying people are ugly because they are Chilean.

    Please show me an example of a racist statement from me.

    Sep 04th, 2014 - 03:33 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ilsen

    Agreed that development is a key factor. People in poor countries have more babies for several reasons, some of which are
    lack of food/medicine = high child mortality rate
    the need for physical care of the elderly
    to increase general family income
    lack of knowledge/access to contraception

    people in more developed countries can CHOOSE not to have so many children, and do so.
    150 years ago in the UK it was normal to have very large families.

    No need to now.

    Immigrants often have large families, but 2nd and 3rd generations do not.

    Sep 04th, 2014 - 03:58 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Condorito

    I don't know about you , but when I'm making babies none of those thoughts are in my head .... I knew I was rich ;)

    Sep 04th, 2014 - 04:05 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • paulcedron

    mrs ilsen
    “lack of food/medicine = high child mortality rate”

    it seems you are describing the uk here:

    “UK child death rate among worst in western Europe, say experts”
    “Study's authors surprised by poor performance after they find only Malta has more deaths of children under five”

    “The true extent of medical device recalls in the UK is currently unknown, and hundreds, if not thousands, of patients each year are suffering serious injury as a result or are dying”

    Sep 04th, 2014 - 04:12 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Heisenbergcontext

    @34 Condorito

    Yes, the changes have been breathtaking in my lifetime. The term 'feminisim' didn't exist until I'd attained my majority. Before that 'Womens Lib' was the cultural norm. In my teens, in Australia, women were only paid 75% of a mans wage for doing the same work.

    By the time I'd started full-time employment a few short years later ( in the UK ) I had a female boss, the use of Ms had become ( almost subliminally ) mandatory, and I never earned more than a female colleague employed in the same position.

    Sep 04th, 2014 - 04:22 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • CabezaDura2


    I agree with most of what you say. The problem is the set of civil laws that have derived from feminism are DRACONIAN.
    Mariage nowadays is literally a death sentence for men in the developed world. All the laws in matters of fatherhood are horrific. Numbers awful
    40% of women would lie to the husbands if they mother a child that is not their spouse. 1 in 10 kids in the US have got wrong their real biological father.
    In the UK you cant even have a DNA test to check your kid without the mom's consent.
    For women to claim Alimony for the rest of the lives is just plain immoral.


    How much % income of single modern and “emancipated” London women goes into makeup, haircuts, clothes, plastic surgery, gym, diets, and all that over a year?? If you choose to live the life you wish, thats fine. The problem is that your government is certain that you cant pay for your own retirement and you dont have kids to support the system which despite all the migrants “positive contributions” are all bankrupt indebted Ponzi schemes.

    Im perfectly fine with population decline, the problem is not going to be solved if countries with higher rates of birth dump there excess population on the ones with lower rates.

    Sep 04th, 2014 - 04:33 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Heisenbergcontext

    @40 CD2

    I can't speak for the UK or US equivilants, but similar laws in my country have come and gone, and future variations will also likely come and go as societal standards change, changes in governments ( with different ideologies ) and the gender mix of MP's. It's a delicate subject: the offices where custody disputes are adjudged usually have the best security, and with good reason.

    Western society is in an almost constant state of flux and the dust is a long way from settling on this subject. Accordingly, getting the balance right will also take time. JMO of course.

    Sep 04th, 2014 - 05:10 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Condorito

    @40 CD
    Without knowledge on the specifics, I am sure the civil laws you refer to are designed to ensure gender equality, not to impose a feminist agenda.

    Here in Chile, historically care of children is given to the mother in custody cases. This is not the result of feminist campaigning. Ironically, in this age of gender equality, our senate ratified a new law last year that ensures that men are now treated as equal in custody cases.

    A victory for common sense and gender equality.

    Sep 04th, 2014 - 07:16 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • CabezaDura2

    “Without knowledge on the specifics, I am sure the civil laws you refer to are designed to ensure gender equality, not to impose a feminist agenda.”

    I totally disagree.

    I really would encourage you to listen to Stefan Molyneux on feminism. Fascinating and eye opening stuff.

    The more sexual partners a woman in life has the more likely the marriage is going to end in divorce. And this is a simple statistical reality. So why would you marry to a woman you know that is going to divorce you, and she will pick your eyes out??

    In Argentina birth rates skyrocketed do to the STATE taking over the role of the parent. Low class un educated women are encouraged to have kids, foor the state ends up providing for healthcare, gov't assistance, subsidies and schooling, so women are encouraged to pick and get themselves pregnant by irresponsible men (criminals, women beaters, bums, drug addicts) because women are predisposed to pick the bad exiting guys.

    The Kids end up growing in a fatherless environment. Mom has endless scumbag boyfriends, while she cant educate the kids properly and the kid ends up being a failure at school and in life. And instead of recognizing them part of the problem single mums are called “heroes” by the Kirchneristas. That is left wing feminism for you but in a third world version of it.

    Sep 04th, 2014 - 07:58 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Condorito

    @43 CD
    I will look out Stefan Molyneux and have a listen, but I challenge you to point to one law that positively discriminates in favour of women, as opposed to gender equality.

    On the nanny state, I agree that it distorts and creates questionable incentives, but those are the outcomes of social engineering not feminism.

    Sep 04th, 2014 - 08:56 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • CabezaDura2

    Im not a lawyer... I only need to look at the statistics and look around even here in the so called bastion “Catholic conservative and backward” Argentina to see that it is bullsihit.

    Cristina is a open and declared femenist.

    Sep 04th, 2014 - 09:45 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ilsen

    Sorry. .. I am too busy laughing to reply properly!
    why does CD2 care what UK women might choose to spend their OWN money on?
    At least they have control over their own reproductive rights. Unlike the backward dark country.
    Meanwhile paul-carrion pulls a few random numbers from the internet to try to make a point. The article is about Spain losing its best people to the UK.
    Why don't you compare child death rates in Europe to Argentina?
    Am loving these new experts on Europe, who have obviously never been here.
    hahaha hahaha!:-)

    Sep 05th, 2014 - 11:24 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • CabezaDura2

    46. FYI I've been to Europe and you have run out of arguments Madame...

    I said to you already that I dont care, the POINT is that instead of investing on a kids education, and feeding and upbringing, women are spending their incomes on beautifying themselves to hook up wealthy men until they are well past menopause then no more money to pay for retirement. Remember women live longer than men do.

    Maybe you are rich and can pay for retirement the problem is that most women cant.
    And if you a rich can I be your husbitch and you provide me security?? I'll do the shopping, take care of the kids, cook, washing up, clothes everything. I dont understand how they dont have loads of time. I can go to the gym everyday and so I can even guarantee you a good minimum X amount of sex per week as I would not work all day and stress myself and Im fit all the time having time to cook real food.

    But over 10 years if we divorce you have to pay me alimony for the rest of your
    life.... Do you agree ?? I think not. Women and men are just not equal by biology and psychology. And preassure, rsponsability and decision making is always on the mans side.
    We have had two women presidents in all of Argentina's history out of 52. And the worst one ever was a woman.

    Sep 05th, 2014 - 03:13 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ChrisR

    @ 26 Briton
    “The N.H.S. is the best in the world bar none,”

    If it were the best in the world then the horrendous cost MIGHT be worth suffering, but the reality is that it fails on so many fronts that it isn’t even up to Uruguayo standards of treatment and we only pay a fraction of the cost.

    Yes, we have to pay for the heavily subsidised medicines my wife has to take each day for the rest of her life but they really do cost peanuts. We also have to pay the equivalent of GBP £3 each time she goes to see a doctor but isn’t that the problem with the UK?

    Because the dead head old gits in public housing think ‘it’s free’ they don’t value it and think nothing of not turning up for their appointments without telephoning to cancel. The fee we pay is before they make us the appointment so if we didn’t turn up we would have to pay again (it will never happen of course).

    No, there are only two things that grieve me with Uruguay: the damnable ‘government’ of murdering, commie bastards and the argie scum in MVD making the place a no-go zone. Health treatment NEVER enters the equation.

    Sep 05th, 2014 - 06:39 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Condorito

    In cases as you suggest above, where the woman is the main provider, a court would allocate alimony payment to the man. A famous case was Madonna's divorce - her husband got millions of british pounds in the settlement.

    That is what I was pointing you to above. The laws protect equality not discrimination.

    Sep 05th, 2014 - 06:42 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • CabezaDura2

    The laws shift from State to State and country to country... However 96% of those paying alimony are men in the US. But aside of it, you are not geting the point. alimony is plain immoral all together.

    Women are just not biologically nor psychologically fit to be providers and decision makers in a couple. Rich women will just go for rich men the same.

    Sep 05th, 2014 - 08:15 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ilsen

    “Women are just not biologically nor psychologically fit to be providers and decision makers in a couple.”

    oh dear, further proof that CD2 lives in 1953.
    I pity you.
    Still believing that 50% of the population are 'lesser' than you. No wonder Argentina is in such a mess.
    I wonder why you are so scared of intelligent women?
    Point in case
    “We have had two women presidents in all of Argentina's history out of 52. And the worst one ever was a woman.”

    But if you had 26 out of 52, would the results be the same?
    You are too insecure to find out, no?

    Why shouldn't rich women choose rich men? It is their choice. Not yours to control. Are you jealous that most rich women don't choose poor men? What would they be able share? Most rich women are well educated, poor men are not.

    I think your are frightened of the inexorable change that is happening across the world.
    I suggest you get on the bus or retreat to your man-cave and be alone for the rest of your life.
    You should be welcoming what 50% of the population could bring to your future prosperity.
    You are closer to Sharia Law in Argentina than we are in the West, with your out-dated laws, mysoginistic religion and backward cultural norms.
    I know, I have been there. Fortunately I met many strong, intelligent womaen eager for change.
    It will happen, whether you like it or not.
    Don't miss the boat!

    Sep 05th, 2014 - 10:14 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • CabezaDura2

    Just because you live in London, that doesnt make you smarter nor more “modern”.. Dont let anybody else especially some backward conservative Argentine upset your world view. You are just a arrogant bimbo living in a bubble. Sorry but you dont impress me much.

    I dont think they are lesser, they are just generally speaking, just different, no better no worse. That is all. I have being naive and paid for that. Much water has gone down the bridge by now and I know most womens true colour by now. In the past I would have agreed more with your view. And that is as much as you will get from me.

    “But if you had 26 out of 52, would the results be the same?”
    Nope, Definitely the country would be in an even worse state than it currently is in.

    “Why shouldn't rich women choose rich men?”
    And why should overwhelmingly poorer women try as much as they can to choose rich men too??

    I think your are frightened of the inexorable change that is happening across the world.

    “You are closer to Sharia Law in Argentina than we are in the West, with your out-dated laws, misogynistic religion and backward cultural norms.”

    Sure you are very brave and audacious against someone that is just making a observation of the situation as much objective, fact based and thought out as he can and on a computer screen that is. But you are nothing more than a condescending coward to the Iman down the road that thinks that men have a right to abuse and rape non muslim women for being slutty by wearing a skirt, that they should were a vail all over their bodies and stoned to death for adultry.

    Im an athiest, but even I can tell the difference between Pope Francis and a Anjem Choudary. Your country cant tell the difference between the EDL and the Muslim gangs that roam your streets, you equate them openly in the same level and that is the reason why you are doomed

    Sep 06th, 2014 - 06:15 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ilsen

    Alimony is plain immoral???
    It is normally paid for the children's welfare in the UK. Why shouldn't men be responsible for where they deposit their sperm?
    You can't just have your fun and walk away anymore.

    I feel sad for you, still living in 1953. I have homes, family and business in two continents. The very best of both worlds. From my own hard work and study.
    Arrogant bimbo? Haha!
    You can kiss my sweet arse! Although I may kick you while you are down there.

    Sep 06th, 2014 - 12:12 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • CabezaDura2

    Alimony is maintenance for the spouse by definition and you are talking about child care.. Difference much. BIMBO!

    In fact after your reply im pretty certain you are probably living off alimony yourself paid by some wretched man. LOL!

    Sep 06th, 2014 - 02:14 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ilsen

    Alimony is a US English word. I am not familiar with it. You are muddying the water here.
    What part of 'from my own hard work and study' did you not understand?

    I forget sometimes just how different society is in Argentina. As ElaineB has mentioned, it is like time-travel when she visits.
    I find it amusing that you think the UK is doomed. Far from it. Why are all the Spanish flocking here?
    On another note you mentioned that no Muslims are in Argentina. Why is there a bloody great mosque in Buenos Aires?

    Sep 06th, 2014 - 02:48 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ChrisR

    Muslim population of Argentina 784000 % 1.9

    Source: The Gruniard no less!

    Sep 06th, 2014 - 05:30 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • CabezaDura2

    “What part of 'from my own hard work and study' did you not understand?”
    The part were you probably are still charging for maintenance... Of course that I expect you to say otherwise.

    ElaineB's opinions are just that, her opinions. I only have to press on the tv to see 24/7 gold digging whores in all main national channels.

    And besides you should know by now that my philosophy and way of thinking is light years away from mainstream argentine ones.

    I have already explained thousand times why Muslims will never be a significant proportion of Arg population, and they will never go as far as they have in Europe and owned a thousand times on this topic.

    I dont know maybe because Spain was stupid enough to join the Euro zone... who cares?? Why havent the spaniards or the italians let in as many muslims as Nothern Europe has?? Never cared to wonder why the first thing Berlusconi did when these illegals arrived in mainland Italy was to put them on a train and dump them in France??

    Sep 06th, 2014 - 10:40 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ilsen

    By your own logic CD2, Argentina will be a muslim country within 50 years.

    PS: you know Argentine mainstream tv is shit. I am surprised you watch it, but it does explain a lot about you.

    Sep 07th, 2014 - 03:46 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • CabezaDura2

    “By your own logic CD2, Argentina will be a muslim country within 50 years. ”
    Argentina has a birth rate wich is far higher than Europe. If we get a good govt and the economy picks up and we end up becoming a rich and more western like country and stop having babies then we will import Latam workers.

    Trade, travel will significantly diminish in the next decade. Hence immigration will be much more expensive. Globalization is finishing. Yes you heard me. That doesnt sound good for a highly finnancial trade city like London that depends on it. And this doesn't come from some lefty latam wishful thinking. It comes from top american geopolitical analysis.
    (min 1.05:20) On Muslim world wide ppl growth

    You will not be able to travell so cheaply to one hemisphere to the other. Europe will remain the obvious, cheapest and more aclimated place for Muslims to go to.

    “ you know Argentine mainstream tv is shit. I am surprised you watch it, but it does explain a lot about you.”

    Seems you have run out of arguments and you are just shooting in the air.
    Easy as pie, ilsen. And I must say if you warent a woman and I wasnt a gentleman (yes I am), I would have being much but much more tough on you like I have being on HamasNiesund, Toby, paulcedron and Voice.

    Have a nice weeekend

    Sep 07th, 2014 - 04:46 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ilsen

    Is that some kind of veiled threat? Am I supposed to be grateful or frightened?
    Pathetic little man.

    Sep 08th, 2014 - 09:20 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • CabezaDura2

    It simply means that even I cant bring myself to treat you in the same ways I treat other men. Should I be more femenist and treat you equal ?? Is that what you want? But then wouldn't a be a misogynist if I did?? And that you have being totall owned by now it leaves you having to play the victim but insult me at the same time. But thats ok, as long as you recognize this.

    Sep 08th, 2014 - 12:44 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ilsen

    I am no ones victim. It was you how raised all this in the first place. I merely attempted to educate you a little.
    Obviously a complete waste of time.
    As you can't bring yourself to treat 50% of the world's population as equals that shows you be intellectually less capable than those who do.
    What makes you think I would want any special treatment from anyone? You are a condescending dinosaur calling people 'bimbos' and 'gold-diggers'.

    No surprise that Argentina is such a train wreck of a nation.
    Have fun in 1953.

    Sep 09th, 2014 - 12:10 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • CabezaDura2

    You are going to educate me ?? Ohhh sure yes.... Listen if you recall this thread I have a point in regards to how countries face ageing population and decline. And I didn't even talk to you. I simply said it was fault of femenism and I should add over empowerment of women.

    You cant accept what I say about feminism and women in general that triggers you to go in a fit. Even you already admitted that women go for rich guys too.
    Its a politically incorrect universal fact that women are mostly gold diggers.

    Obviously you must identefy with a lot of what I said.

    Sep 09th, 2014 - 01:46 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ilsen

    Yup, definitely still 1953 over there. Now with added envy and insecurity.
    What a wonderful state of mind. ...
    Wonder why all those educated Spanish are flocking to the UK and not Argentina?
    It is not just the economy, it's the culture! They don't want to go back to a dark past..... As exemplified by your own dear, sweet self.

    Sep 09th, 2014 - 04:10 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • CabezaDura2

    Have you got an agument to make apart from repeating all the time its 1953 in Argentina??

    Yuppp, Gold diggers

    “It is not just the economy, it's the culture! They don't want to go back to a dark past..... ”

    Are you that naive?? Are you really stupid enough people migrate because of culture and not economics??... Ohh well that is what they make you believe in your cool aid pc City all the time.

    Sep 09th, 2014 - 04:50 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ilsen

    “It is not JUST the economy, it's the culture” I wrote.
    I was saying it's more than just the economy. I wouldn't expect you to understand about culture.... People don't work 24/7, they make lifestyle decisions also.
    Did you actually read what I wrote or just have a reflexive reaction because you can't bear to imagine that a mere woman might be more intelligent than you?

    Also, I don't bother with your 'linkies', you can find any old crap on youtube, wether you're taliban or KKK.
    I suggest you get down to The King Fahd Islamic Cultural Center / Mosque in Palermo. It has prayer halls with capacities for 1,200 men and 400 women, respectively. Sounds perfect for you.
    I am sure the more fundamentalist brethren would welcome you.

    Sep 09th, 2014 - 06:02 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • CabezaDura2

    Its fascinating that you live in the UK, being an immigrant yourself and have no clue of how it works.

    There is probably a community of Spaniards already in London. the first immigration waves are small, but the most adventurous and outward wave of migrants that settle in a foreign country, and of course within time then they have contacts, jobs, and food and lodging to provide to their relatives and acquaintances at their own home country when they come around. It makes it much easier for the other immigration waves to settle in. So then the less prepared and qualified will come in greater numbers which adapt with more difficulty and if not dont adapt at all and end up forming ghettos.

    English is much more mainstream than German is... I bet you that the Spaniards that go to Germany are far better qualified than the nurses and teachers of Spain that go to England. It takes a more adventurous to go to Germany or elsewhere.
    FFS if you had a thing called culture the Scots would not be breaking apart. Nobody likes a soul less society

    I know you watched the video... Like you have seing other links I posted but I dont understand what your end take is... Are you saying that most women are NOT gold diggers OR that women are like that but you just have to accept it as it is and not even talk about it...??¿?

    Yep having only one single Mosque in the whole country is great. Never seing a Muslim wearing a sheet all over in Argentina.
    You seem to be jealous about it. Enjoy Londonistan... You will get some “culture” sooner than later.

    Sep 09th, 2014 - 06:28 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ilsen

    Oh dear, you are becoming a little tiresome.
    I am British and can trace my family back to 1653 in London. No further because the records were destroyed in a fire. I have spent many years in Venezuela. Even did studied for my Masters at ULA, Merida although a top UK University was the awarding body.
    So you have yet again wasted a few paragraphs, and my time, with pointless projections.
    Please don't try to lecture me about immigration in London. I have a much deeper understanding than you do.
    I didn't watch your link. Saying you know I did only makes you look inept.
    I can't speak for all women in the world, nor would I want to. So I can't answer your idiotic questions about gold diggers etc.
    My original point was that Feminism is about equality of opportunity, not emasculating men. You, however, seem to educate yourself via YouTube. So it really is pointless trying to discuss anything with you on any meaningful level.
    This conversation is over. You lost any argument you had when you started using words like bimbo because you got insecure.
    Bye bye!

    Sep 09th, 2014 - 08:25 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • CabezaDura2

    More victimization.... Ohhh common

    “ Even did studied for my Masters at ULA, Merida although a top UK University was the awarding body.”
    And yet you cant even mantain an argument or a debate.

    I called you bimbo because you confused child care with alimony no because I'm insecure !! But that is way after you insulted me first.

    “I have a much deeper understanding than you do.”
    I'm sorry but you dont.

    Do you really think that all the statistics and numbers I provide come from YT ?? But I can provide you with multiple sources and data, it doesnt matter so it will make no difference you are adicted to cool aid and propaganda and on made self belief in regards to migration, Islam and feminism. You are just an uptight smart arse that because you live in London you think you would no better than a throwback conservative Argentine.... And got humbled in the process.

    Bye bye.... (former) Bimbo.

    I know you are too old now for that

    Sep 09th, 2014 - 08:42 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ilsen

    I do not have to think about it. I know I am far superior to you.
    The facts don't lie.
    You have just shown you are ageist as well as misogynistic. Your clock is turning backwards. Must be 1952 now.
    I am not humbled by a throwback standing in a hole who is still frantically digging.
    London is so lovely right now....
    Mwhaaa!! xx

    Sep 09th, 2014 - 09:01 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • CabezaDura2


    Sep 09th, 2014 - 09:17 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ilsen


    Sep 10th, 2014 - 12:40 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • CabezaDura2

    You are so superior and modern and independent I'm starting to make me feel butterflies in my stomach...

    Sep 10th, 2014 - 10:34 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ilsen

    You can't even see out of the hole you are in.
    You want me to buy you a new shovel so you can keep digging?

    Sep 11th, 2014 - 10:28 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • CabezaDura2

    I told you so, you dont impress me much.

    Sep 11th, 2014 - 02:14 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ilsen

    But you keep coming back.
    How is that hole looking? Getting deeper?

    Sep 11th, 2014 - 03:44 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • CabezaDura2

    Because you keep on coming back at me! You said you were gone days ago..
    The hole is still not big enough to fit in the size of your Carribean mature behind the size of the Maracaibo bay.

    Sep 11th, 2014 - 04:24 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ilsen

    Such flattery! It's pleasing to think that you are fantasising about ones posterior, should keep you occupied for a while.
    Although you know I would never sleep with the 'help'. Now run along back to your hole.
    And keep digging!

    Sep 11th, 2014 - 04:53 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • CabezaDura2

    Mmm I know not all venezuelan matures arses look like Catherine Fulop's.

    Sep 11th, 2014 - 06:44 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ilsen

    So that is the level you have now sunk to? From political discussion to contemplation of female body parts?
    Hmmm.... I was right to say you were down in a hole, yet you keep on digging.

    I am going to let you have the last word. Not because I 'm feeling particularly gracious, but because, quite frankly my dear, I have grown utterly bored of you.
    Not surprised you have little success with women, I expect they find you completely tiresome.

    Sep 11th, 2014 - 09:07 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Troy Tempest

    32 nino cedrone

    “read your own comments, the comments of that imbecile conqueror, etc and you will realize it.”

    As I asked you @35,

    “please show me where I have been racist?”

    We ARE individual posters here.

    You cannot defend your statements against me, by bringing Conqueror's statements into it.

    Sorry, little stable boy.

    Sep 11th, 2014 - 11:44 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • CabezaDura2

    “You can kiss my sweet arse! Although I may kick you while you are down there.

    “So that is the level you have now sunk to? From political discussion to contemplation of female body parts?”

    Ok have it your way.

    I believe you have being thinking of my hand in marrige at 47, if it wherre only real... But lets face it, I know and you know that you cant afford me


    Sep 12th, 2014 - 01:06 am - Link - Report abuse 0

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