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The Scottish referendum
By Gwynne Dyer - If the Scots vote “yes” to independence on Sept. 18, as one opinion poll now suggests they will, three things are likely to happen in the following week. Read full article
Comments
Disclaimer & comment rules“If the Scots vote “yes” to independence on Sept. 18, as one opinion poll now suggests they will, three things are likely to happen in the following week.”
Sep 17th, 2014 - 05:14 pm - Link - Report abuse 0What a lacklustre heading! For every one poll indicating a “YES” result there are three showing the “NO” side as in the lead.
A very misleading heading.
@1 “A very misleading heading.”
Sep 17th, 2014 - 05:22 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Gwynne Dyer wrote it, what do you expect.
Pathetic, all the respected polls show NO ahead. It's obvious certain people are wanting the UK to fail, Gwynne Dyer being one of them.
Sep 17th, 2014 - 05:29 pm - Link - Report abuse 0A very important, and missing, happening. The razor wire border. Manned by real soldiers. British soldiers. The best in the world. Overhead the Royal Air Force. In command of the skies. Imagine what happens when the RAF bombs Edinburgh. Then Glasgow. Greenock. Aberdeen. Perhaps scotchland will learn its place. It doesn't DEMAND, it begs!
Sep 17th, 2014 - 05:37 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Conqueror you have serious issues if you actually believe anything like that is remotely possible.
Sep 17th, 2014 - 05:47 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The british pound is the most overvalued currency and will collapse, with or without Scotland.
Sep 17th, 2014 - 06:00 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Add to that the huge debt the uk has, and you don´t have to be a genius to predict a bleak future for the remains of the uk.
The best thing the Scottish can do is to leave that joke of “united” kingdom.
@6 It won't collapse but it is overvalued and will probably find a more realistic level.
Sep 17th, 2014 - 06:06 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@6 Scottish banknote might end up being worthless but the UK pound will not collapse. PS How's the Arg peso doing? Lol
Sep 17th, 2014 - 06:07 pm - Link - Report abuse 0brit nabo
Sep 17th, 2014 - 06:13 pm - Link - Report abuse 0the argentine peso is crap, but what has that got to do with the article?
out of topic, you nabo
1. independence
Sep 17th, 2014 - 06:14 pm - Link - Report abuse 0ɪndɪˈpɛnd(ə)ns/
noun
noun: independence
1. the fact or state of being independent.
“
synonyms: self-government, self-rule, , self-legislation, self-determination, sovereignty, autonomy, non-alignment, freedom, liberty;
adjective
1Free from outside control; not subject to another’s authority
is totally independent of central government
Capable of thinking or acting for oneself
Not influenced by others;
Not depending on something else for strength or effectiveness; free-standing military ect.
”It’s all for the glorification of SNP Leader Alex Salmond & a group of people with romantic dreams who watched ‘Braveheart’ once too many”
And into Europe they will go,
/////////////////////////////
But the latest polls have the NOvote ahead
.
10.With the level of violance and polarization that Scotland has at the moment, you might ask yourself if a Scottish IRA or ETA will come up after a NO vote??
Sep 17th, 2014 - 06:25 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Being an outsider with no right to tell the people of Scotland what to vote, I personally hope they keep the union.
Sep 17th, 2014 - 06:26 pm - Link - Report abuse 0However, with all the rhetoric being said over the past several days, I can see easily why many undecided would now vote yes. The opposition have been too heavy handed. Perhaps Spain will vote against an independent Scotland being a part of the EU, but the other countries will welcome them with a fast track option.
Furthermore, NATO will make all kinds of concession to keep the submarine base there for the next few years.
I blame a lot of this stupidity on London for handling it so poorly.
”In seeking to frighten Scottish voters with dire predictions that the Spanish government might veto any Scottish EU membership application, he (the President of the European Commission) was, of course, merely mimicking identical declarations by David Cameron and the main Scottish unionist leaders. They have all stressed that Madrid would probably block Scotland for fear that otherwise the growing movement for Catalan independence would become irresistible.
Sep 17th, 2014 - 06:27 pm - Link - Report abuse 0But the language being used by the Spanish government does not support these dire predictions. In a recent interview the Spanish foreign minister, José Manuel Garcia-Margallo, stated that a Scottish EU application should be considered in the event of a Yes victory in the referendum. He went on to insist: “If Britain's constitutional order allows – and it seems that it does – Scotland to choose independence, we have nothing to say about this.”
In the Quebec referendum the 'yes' vote had a 5% lead going into the polls. But then the majority of those canvassed and classed as 'don't knows' voted 'No' and the no vote won by a narrow margin.
Sep 17th, 2014 - 06:27 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I think they will leave, call it a gut feeling.
Sep 17th, 2014 - 06:28 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The EU will be destroyed if it is a YES. The SNP wins, Cameron loses, Milliband loses and England elects Farage. UK out of the EU together with France and the whole thing falls apart with no France nor UK supporting it.
Sep 17th, 2014 - 06:29 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“Would”...“ If”...
Sep 17th, 2014 - 06:39 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Will I win the Lottery next week?
I don't believe the polls...there are no undecided...
Sep 17th, 2014 - 06:46 pm - Link - Report abuse 0No facts have changed in the last month...uncertain promises on one side....disastrous tactics on the other....
...lots of folk are certainly not stating their choice...but I believe they know what it is...
People I have spoken to are very guarded, but a few subtle questions easily reveals their leanings.....
. 11 CabezaDura2
Sep 17th, 2014 - 06:51 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You have a good point,
Mr salmon has a lot to answer for, that’s if he cares.
//////////////////
Would”...“ If”...
Will I win the Lottery next week?
Probably not, but someone somewhere will..
well the polls open at 07am, and lets hope they stay ,
as the alternative will be salmon and chips,
and guess who the chips will be..
15
Sep 17th, 2014 - 07:19 pm - Link - Report abuse 0According to the latest polling, the union is on a knife edge, so why do bookmakers seem so confident that Scotland will vote No?
http://www.theweek.co.uk/uk-news/scots-independence/60436/scottish-independence-odds-bookmakers-shorten-odds-on-no
Money money money,
Sep 17th, 2014 - 07:33 pm - Link - Report abuse 0sounds familiar does it not.
bookmakers will gamble on anything.
The “Yes” camp are very vocal, very visible and are now really bloody annoying. I've decided on no, mainly because this is no time to split asunder a largely successful union.
Sep 17th, 2014 - 08:00 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Don't get me wrong, I have a healthy disregard for Westminster, but who in the UK doesn't? In Shetland we also have a healthy disregard for the plebs in Holyrood and in the event of a “Yes” Salmond may get a shock when the “our islands our future” agenda really bites.
Why would David Cameron resign if Scotland votes yes, he has guaranteed Tory rule in England for a generation. He would be a hero in the Tory party.
Sep 17th, 2014 - 08:21 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Forget Spain vetoing Scotland membership of the Eu, the UK will do it after Scotland defaults on its share of the UK debt, simultaneously allowing the UK to keep the far greater assets of the Bank of England...100% of them.
So, Scotland will have the pooound.
All UK government contracts with Scotland will cease costing 500,000 direct and indirect jobs.
Many multinationals will leave or plan to, costing another 250,000 jobs.
House prices in Northern England will sour, as 1.5-2m of the richest Scots flee the Socialist superstate.
Scotland will become insignificant, and near bankrupt, the oil will keep them afloat for a few years, when that has gone...god help them.
Meanwhile in England there will be perpetual economic growth and prosperity assisted by the “true” Scots now living south of the border.
these past weeks remind me of an Alfons Heck quote
“we were raised into a Nationalist fervour bordering on madness, we stood there with tears in our eyes shouting Sieg Heil, Sieg Heil, Seig Heil, from that moment on I belonged to Adolf Hitler, body and soul”
From what I've seen, swap Sieg Heil for Freeeeeeedom, and Adolf Hilter from Alex Salmond and you will see the behaviour of many in the “Yes” campaign, a NATIONALIST FERVOUR.
Nervous the “British”?
Sep 17th, 2014 - 08:30 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Great Britain or Small Britain?
United Kingdom or Disengaged Kindom?
Union Jack flag or.......?
Independent Scotland Live!
And never forget: Las Malvinas son Argentinas.
#23 Monkeymagic
Sep 17th, 2014 - 08:43 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Like I said, I'd like to see the union continue, but your post is over the top.
With the new methods of extracting petroleum, oil will continue for a long time into the future. The UK will allow the Pound to be used by Scotland as long as they honor their debt share.
The Nazi reference is cheap and a perfect example why people are turning against the NO movement.
22
Sep 17th, 2014 - 11:30 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I am perhaps, besides Clyde15, one of the most vocal defenders of Scotland on this forum....
I would very much like to piss off the anti-Scots that riddle this site by voting Yes...and although it would be easy to lie to that effect....
I am also going to vote No tomorrow....
I don't feel that any great benefit would be achieved and I do believe Scotland has a separate and distinct identity regardless of Independence....
....Voice
Holy Loch, Argyll, Scotland.
Aye Sheltie. And whose oil is it? Zetland and Orkney are a perfectably nation on their own.
Sep 17th, 2014 - 11:44 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@25 Chicureo:
Sep 18th, 2014 - 02:33 am - Link - Report abuse 0A narrow No result will be much worse for the UK than a clean break, because it means the nationalists will not go away and lack of certainty over the future will damage everyone there.
But, if the nationalists do win, there is not a hope in hell of a currency union because England would never be so stupid as to jump into bed with a country that clearly would screw them over and join the Euro as soon as it suited them. As for all the threats, a separate Scotland will service their proportion of UK debt because if they don't they really will be alone: no EU.
The voters will vote with their wallets so if the stereotypical tight-fisted Scot exists, it'll be a NO vote.
Sep 18th, 2014 - 02:46 am - Link - Report abuse 0Also what would happen to Rangers FC, a unionist club, if the YES vote wins? Poor Ally McCoist!
@24, Jose
It's good to hear you're accepting referendums now
#28 & 29
Sep 18th, 2014 - 03:03 am - Link - Report abuse 0My family has always been members of the Santiago Saint Andrew’s Society which is closely intertwined into the activities of the British community here. The UK ambassador each year attends the Caledonian ball at the Prince of Wales Country Club in La Reina. I cannot imagine and all the rest here in Chile separated.
Saying that, my first cousins are getting ready to throw a big celebratory party in La Dehesa tomorrow night. Go figure, bagpipes squealing in Santiago.
Andy Murray on Scottish independence vote: 'Let's do this!'
Sep 18th, 2014 - 03:44 am - Link - Report abuse 0“Wimbledon champion tweets apparent endorsement of yes vote in referendum, criticising ‘negativity’ of the no side”.
“ They take Britain into stupid foreign wars, and they impose austerity on ordinary British people while looking after the rich.”
Sep 18th, 2014 - 03:58 am - Link - Report abuse 0Well, I think this sums up what I have been saying the last three years, about the UK/NorthAmoan system: wars of aggression, privatization of profits for the rich, socialization of losses of the rich.
Then you wonder why countries want to be independent of such a perverse system, or why Argentina wants nothing to do with it.
Well polls are open and close when I wake up in the morning.
Sep 18th, 2014 - 08:29 am - Link - Report abuse 0I guess I will find out at work tomorrow.
It is a bit misleading to think that the oil belongs to Scotland. This has been bandied about by SNP and is wrong. When challenged they respond that they will nationalise everything associated with the oil industry in Scotland. They also seem not to understand that large oil fields are by the north of England.
Sep 18th, 2014 - 09:31 am - Link - Report abuse 0It is interesting that the NO campaign is viewed as negative - in the sense of campaigning - when the YES campaigners have been far more aggressive. Even this morning when campaigning is over and voting has started, Salmond was able to vote without interruption whilst a group of YES goons were shouting abuse at Darling. It really illustrates the point that nationalism is the aggressive form of patriotism.
The Scots should be free to decide their future without intimidation. I sincerely hope all the bad feeling drummed up evaporates quickly whatever the outcome.
Never mind what HE says, I voted YES! Thus cancelling out HIS vote at a stroke. Welcome to the new Socialist paradise of Scotland!
Sep 18th, 2014 - 09:33 am - Link - Report abuse 0Oh dear!! there goes Murray!! The only British great tennis player!!
Sep 18th, 2014 - 09:43 am - Link - Report abuse 0Who wrote this garbage?
Sep 18th, 2014 - 10:28 am - Link - Report abuse 0Spain has said nothing regarding the blocking of Scotland joining the EU. We already are a member as part of the UK.
There were riots in every Scottish town when the act of union was imposed on us in 1706. That's always kept quiet........
We will still have HM the queen as HOS, and simply be the 17th member of the commonwealth, like Canada for instance.
Yhe story above is loaded with NO campaign rhetoric !
The Scottish Whiskey and their Salmon will keep the Yes Scotland a flout beside their innovative Financial Services and rewarding seasoned investing operators. The North-Sea Oil is only extra for their Luxuries!
Sep 18th, 2014 - 10:41 am - Link - Report abuse 0The No campaigners slogans and unfounded structured briberies will only encourage the Yes vote to increase and will assure the Yes voters that the Scot has been denied few of their rights for the past 300 years and it time for pay-back what has been taken from them.
cant wait for the results, Then maybe all this bitching will stop, What ever the result “best luck for the future Scotland”
Sep 18th, 2014 - 10:50 am - Link - Report abuse 035
Sep 18th, 2014 - 11:09 am - Link - Report abuse 0The difference between you and I.......is .....you don't have a vote!
...ergo...your Voice is meaningless.....like you...
29
Sep 18th, 2014 - 11:21 am - Link - Report abuse 0Nothing to See, okupa. The Scottish are a people different of the tyrannical English and have the right to choose. Those who have no rights are the okupas of Malvinas Argentine Islands, British (?) In Argentina.
Try asking the UN.
@ 37 EscoSes Doido
Sep 18th, 2014 - 11:39 am - Link - Report abuse 0“We already are a member as part of the UK.”
So what, you won’t be if you have your way.
I see the yes lies have worked on you then: do you ever go back to live in your country or is it Brazil where your family is?
You need to understand the EU thing a bit better. An independent Scotland will be a NEW country and if it wants to be in the EU it will HAVE to be in the Euro. That in itself means that it will be a minimum of four years from now: 2016 to piss off completely and then at least two years of having a bank of last resort (like the BoE) and your own currency BEFORE you can join the Eurozone. And do you think the Grand Knobhead can arrange that in two years, NFC.
Frankly I have changed my mind about the union having seen the lies and violence typical of the drunken loutish Scots that I have had to deal with over the decades come out in the open during the run up to polling day: I hope you go, never to return.
The proportion of Army officers and soldiers recruited from each country within the United Kingdom for 2013-14 is shown in the following table:
Sep 18th, 2014 - 12:11 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Percentage
Regular
Officer Soldier
England 89.0 86.4
Scotland 6.6 6.5
Wales 2.8 4.7
Northern Ireland
0.5 1.9
Other 1.1 0.5
Reserve
Officer Soldier
England 76.1 78.0
Scotland 10.1 11.1
Wales 4.3 3.7
Northern Ireland 5.1 6.3
Other 4.4 0.9
Just a thought.
http://www.theyworkforyou.com/wrans/?id=2014-02-13b.187314.h&s=recruitment+england+scotland+army#g187314.q0
,,,,,,,,,,,
Scottish independence: How the world has reacted
http://www.theyworkforyou.com/wrans/?id=2014-02-13b.187314.h&s=recruitment+england+scotland+army#g187314.q0
those who want them to stay-
USA Australia Canada Germany India and China,
Out of those mentioned,
Those who support SALMON to separate are as follows,
France Quebec, Bavaria Catalonia North Korea
And - Palestinian territories and Argentina, among others,
Please read, you will find it interesting..
http://www.theyworkforyou.com/wrans/?id=2014-02-13b.187314.h&s=recruitment+england+scotland+army#g187314.q0
.
In today's Buenos Aires Herald is an article detailing how the Argentine government believes Scottish independence would force the UK to begin negotiations over the sovereignty of the Falklands.
Sep 18th, 2014 - 12:16 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I guess it's something to do with that unique “Argentine logic” not shared by the rest of the world and baffling to me.
http://www.buenosairesherald.com/article/169995/weakening-of-uk’s-international-position-could-pave-the-way-to-dialogue
Just a thought.
Sep 18th, 2014 - 12:28 pm - Link - Report abuse 0A bit simpler
Soldiers /
England 86.4 %
Scotland 6.5 %
Wales 4.7 %
N.I 6.3 %
those who are serving.
@5. Then sit back and watch. Across the Anglo-French border, individuals are leaping into trucks, hiding in the back seats of cars and tying themselves under motorhomes. Salmond has said he will have a lower 'threshold' for immigration. In other words, an open door. Much like the French. I'm told there are 27 roads that cut the Anglo-Scotch border. Not to mention hiking across country. And Salmond thinks he is 'entitled' to free movement. How is a non-EU state 'entitled' to free movement into the EU? What do you suppose the UK should do? Let everyone in? Of course not. How do we stop them? Apart from the razor wire, did I forget to mention the constant patrols with a shoot-to-kill policy? That's right, shoot-to-kill! There's an individual haring across the countryside from a foreign country. How many police in cross-country vehicles to intercept? Helicopters hopping around? Or shoot? Can't really ask the police to do that. So now it's the Army and the RAF. And what about those that try it by water? If they are prepared to try to cross the Mediterranean, what problem floating down the scotch coast? And how many will be IS operatives or sympathisers? Time to get with reality. If the scotch go independent, we have a non-EU, potentially hostile state across one of our borders. Something we haven't had for many years. Are you going to send out unarmed immigration or customs officers, police constables to apprehend people armed with heaven knows what? Don't know where you're from, Zethee, but, as far as I'm concerned, England is under threat. England is MY country. It must be protected. Any intruder or invader must be dealt with. I will be upgrading my home and personal protection. CCTV and alarms. What I have indoors is my business.
Sep 18th, 2014 - 12:54 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Och Aye, we certainly do, emasculated one!
Sep 18th, 2014 - 01:06 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The Voice
Bridge of Earn
Perthshire
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/eu/11104624/Scottish-referendum-Scotland-will-find-few-friends-and-allies-in-Europe.html
Sep 18th, 2014 - 01:09 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Yes Conqueror, but perhaps you refrain from drinking that cheap gin and sober up a bit. All this negative nonsense is causing NO voters to reconsider.
Sep 18th, 2014 - 01:15 pm - Link - Report abuse 047 gordo1
Sep 18th, 2014 - 01:57 pm - Link - Report abuse 0It's amazing how selective they are in choosing what to believe. If they don't want something to be true then it isn't.
One laughable claim is that the EU would be desperate to retain oil and fish rich Scotland. To the rest of the EU the Scots are still Brits - so not viewed particularly fondly and a dysfunctional union of 350m people is hardly going to bend or break every treaty to accomodate the comparatively tiny population of Scotland.
@43
Sep 18th, 2014 - 01:59 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Reminds me of the UK waiting for a new government in Argentina to get ARG to negotiate away our territorial waters to the British through fisheries treaties. There is something about the British logic that think that some new government will make Argentine cultural views of the UK as the enemy change. Quite baffling.
Toby, you flatter yourselves. No one in the UK is in the least interested in Argentina. The folk at GCHQ probably have an occasional listen in the KFCs and Gollums telephone conversation when 'Malvinas' is mentioned. To the few well heeled British world travellers, the falls is possibly on their bucket list and possibly an evenings tango experience in BA. Apart from that its zilch! Your country has the status of an uninteresting second world backwater and basket case. Don't kid yourself..
Sep 18th, 2014 - 02:30 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Every poll in the last week (bar one crazy rogue ICM poll that corrected itself) has No ahead by ~4 (52 to 48). The media report this as “too close to call” because of the Margin-of-Error but in fact this is untrue - with ALL of the polls showing No narrowly ahead then this is almost certainly a real lead. The No campaign are expecting to get 56% and win by 12, while Salmond's interview this morning was downbeat and contrite. The people least accessible to the pollsters are the old and they are NO by about 2 to 1. Those who have never voted before and been re-registered are more for Yes but as long as they have a mobile phone then they should have been included in the polls. It will all boil down to which group can turn their softest supporters out, but at present No are ahead. Even the sun which can make people feel positive and less risk-averse has deserted Alex Salmond while England is enjoying a glorious day. If you really think that Yes will win then stick a grand on it because you'll get great odds.
Sep 18th, 2014 - 02:30 pm - Link - Report abuse 0This seems the appropriate thread to wish our Chilean friends a happy Independence Day.
Sep 18th, 2014 - 02:31 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Although English born & bred I really hope they vote yes!!! Just like I hoped Quebec would seperate when I lived in Montreal in the '90s & eventually I wish for full independence for the Falklands.....it's something to do with the inherent right of a people to choose it's own destiny!!!
Sep 18th, 2014 - 02:37 pm - Link - Report abuse 0But after the initial euphoria comes reality & the best line from this whole debate is “ but in five or ten years the Scots would stop blaming England for all their problems and start blaming their own politicians. And the English would simply have forgotten Scotland”
So remember Scots....you have the inherent right to choose your destiny but “ be careful what you wish for”
@52
Sep 18th, 2014 - 02:38 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The funny thing is... you think that YOU and your island matter for us to care.
Toby, you need to work on expressing yourself more clearly. We don't care what Argentinians think if that's it? All across the world many people have got it in for Britain because of our history. But, we know who we are now, we have strong decent values and dosh out lots of financial and practical assistance to those less fortunate than us around the world. We hope that people will appreciate that, but if they don't , thats life... We will protect our Falkland Islanders and back them up all the way in their progress towards an even more prosperous and secure future.
Sep 18th, 2014 - 02:54 pm - Link - Report abuse 0#54
Sep 18th, 2014 - 03:46 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Thank you Elaine for your thoughts.
Our “dieciocho” fiestas patrias will easily continue until into Sunday.
¡Salud!
I'm split on this issue because, on the one hand, I like the idea of smaller countries - their governments are more answerable - and thus want to see more secession precedents. On the other hand I absolutely loath this slippery socialist Salmond creature - he is a liar and a cheat. But, if the Scottish independence result is “No” I'd like to see the UK federalised into 12 states. 3 of those will be Scotland, Wales and N.Ireland. The other 9 will come from England whose population of 53 million + is far too many for a single centralised state. I propose England be divided into its 9 natural divisions, which are Lancastria (NW), Northumbria (NE), Yorkshire (N.Central), East Mercia, West Mercia (Midlands), East Anglia, Wessex (SW), the SE region (to be named) excluding London, and finally London itself, the only part which doesn't fit neatly into this plan, being much more populous than the other proposed states, most of them having about 5 million pop'n.
Sep 18th, 2014 - 03:57 pm - Link - Report abuse 0If the no votes are less than 60% a way should be found to kick Scotland out of the UK. At the same time, we shall hopefully get rid of Cameron as well.
Sep 18th, 2014 - 04:00 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Cameron, a genius with the same level of understanding politics as Idiot Child Tobias, has done his very best to push the Scots to vote yes, promising - while in dire straits - gold, mansions and the heaven above, promises which everybody knows to come to naught when sh1t and fan meets. Thus any normal Scotsman distrusts him as a liar and is apt to vote yes.
Perhaps the SE could be called Avalon, because thats what its like.
Sep 18th, 2014 - 04:07 pm - Link - Report abuse 044:
Sep 18th, 2014 - 04:08 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Good point.
It would be in Argentina's interest to support the Yes vote, thus weakening the UK.
I'm surprised that Argentina did not jump into this more forcefully, but they seem late and tardy to the table on many things, including debt payments.
36...
Sep 18th, 2014 - 04:11 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“The only British great tennis player!!”
I dont know if he is a Scotsman or British but “great tennis player” is the doubious part.
Two Grand Slams...if not great then pretty damn good.
Sep 18th, 2014 - 05:02 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The French are saying the following about Scotland if they vote YES....
Sep 18th, 2014 - 05:09 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Scotland would need continue using the pound interim as its currency, but there would be a special consideration for them to switch over to the Euro, if Scotland remained in the EU. (The French are saying that Scotland is a member and will remain without having to apply as a new nation.)
North Sea oil and gas reserves, in Scottish waters, have tremendous potential through new production methods and that Total S.A. is interested to provide services and financing for managing the reserves.
The comments noted that nothing justifies expulsion of Scotland from NATO’s military membership, nor a fundamental need to yield to the Atlanticism ideology of London. However, if Scotland did leave NATO, the defense force, as well as new intelligence and security agencies would be welcome to participate in joint operations with France.
Let's hope the vote NO, but the French seem all for it with a positive outlook...p
64, He is a good average player that happened to be born at the same time much better ones like Federer, Nadal and Djokovich
Sep 18th, 2014 - 05:31 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@65
Sep 18th, 2014 - 05:32 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Of course the French like the idea. Scotland would have to be a net contributor to the EU but without the UK's rebate. That's the problem with boasting that you are the 14th richest country in the world - you'll have plenty of new best friends, but only as long as you keep the cheques coming.
What I find rather funny is the way the yes camp claim that they have no input into Westminster policy making as they only have 1 tory mp :-) yet they forget to mention that they also have 11 lib dem members of the house and 2 of them are in the government :-) you can add to that the Scots who are in the House of Lords LOL
Sep 18th, 2014 - 05:33 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@ 65 Chicureo
Sep 18th, 2014 - 05:33 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You have to remember that the French tried their level best to split Scotland from the clutches of England right from the get go.
Seems they are up to the same old tricks.
It's what the EU says are the rules, not France. And as far as NATO are concerned WTF has it got to do with a bunch of cowards who boycotted NATO for 40 years because DeGaulle didn't like the Yanks?
You know the old joke about the Lebel Model 1886 which was the French military issue rifle through WWI when they came up for ex-war surplus: as issued brand new by the armoury - only thrown down in the mud once.
Just about sums them up.
Scotland as an independent nation is not a member of the EU, and Spain will veto a Scottish membership for as long as possible (several years) because of Cataluña.
Sep 18th, 2014 - 05:35 pm - Link - Report abuse 0An independent Scotland printing British pounds will be counterfeiting of money.
...an interesting word on the Auld Alliance......
Sep 18th, 2014 - 06:01 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“An independent Scotland would be a strong shock,” said Philippe Moreau-Defarges, expert on self-determination at the French Institute of International Relations.
“Yes, France and Scottish relations go back to medieval times. But the first employer of the French today is London. If we have to choose, don't be fooled: France will go in the direction of London.”
Do you really want independence or do you really understand what is what,
Sep 18th, 2014 - 06:05 pm - Link - Report abuse 0SNP truth or lies.
They state the following Five False Premises of Scottish Separatism: And why they make it Impossible, Impractical, and indeed Immoral for Scotland to Split
This article was posted on this site on 22 June
False Premise 1: Scotland is just like every other country in the world.
False Premise 2: Britain is not a nation.
False Premise 3: Scotland is not a self-determining nation.
False Premise 4: Scotland is equal to England in every way.
False Premise 5: Scots should only be concerned about what is good for Scots and Scotland.
What We Should Do
http://www.aforceforgood.org.uk/debunk/uk11#sourceone
Read this and see if it changes your mind,
only hours to go.
And IS British prisoner is the main story in some British media UNBELIEVABLE!!
Sep 18th, 2014 - 06:06 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Can it be that the Scots want some attention??
Sadly here the mentality of these nutters is stupidly unbelievable
Sep 18th, 2014 - 06:26 pm - Link - Report abuse 0they think by not killing this one [yet] and to make a plea to the fact if Britain did as it was told [ all in the name of ?? ] then they might MIGHT let them and other go,
HELLO murderers, you have already killed 3 innocent people,
So to little to late,
Your time will come,
Trust us when we say,
YOU TIME WILL COME
Just ask those who have gone before you when you meet them in paradise with your virgins….
But something tells us Osama bin Laden is sleeping with the fishes ,
And not with the virgins…
74 Briton
Sep 18th, 2014 - 08:02 pm - Link - Report abuse 0These pesky IS types are so brainwashed that they can not think clearly. The amount of Taliban that the ISAF forces have killed over the past 10 years, and each one of those was promised...what? Is it 74 virgins? So if each fighter has been promised 74 virgins, arn't they running out of Virgins by now?
I notice that the text does not quote a gender for these “virgins” either, mind you, having seen the “true” face of Islam as it is in Afghanistan, you have to wonder on about the “Wisdom” of Allah.
Looking at the betting, which is heavily in favour of a “No” despite all the misleading hype that it is on a “razor-edge” - I think the crucial swing factor will be the “Shy No” element - or should we call it them the “Scared No” vote? Nobody wants to say they are going to vote “No” when they know that after the voting is done and dusted and Alex Solomon, er Salmon, has shot his wad and is a dead fish - then have their faces re-arranged by roving bands of angry drunken Scottish “yes” yobbos.....!!! This is why it will be NO..!!!
Sep 18th, 2014 - 08:32 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@ 74 Briton
Sep 18th, 2014 - 08:33 pm - Link - Report abuse 0This was a real incident in Pakistan (photo and police presence shown):
A Taliban suicide bomber stopped and searched by police, was found with a metal shield around his penis.
Asked about the purpose of this protection, his response was:
“I want to keep my penis intact after the explosion, so as not to have sexual problems once I get my 72 virgins in heaven!”
Just wondering - is this the true interpretation of a Dick-Head?
And polls are closed!
Sep 18th, 2014 - 09:07 pm - Link - Report abuse 0No matter what your opinion is, this is a fun informative neutral video about today's vote:
Sep 18th, 2014 - 10:30 pm - Link - Report abuse 0http://www.theguardian.com/politics/video/2014/sep/17/scottish-referendum-explained-for-non-brits-video
Thanks guys,
Sep 19th, 2014 - 12:02 am - Link - Report abuse 0As history tells us time and time again,
a few wise men, followed by an army of fools,
off ta sleep back in morning.
sleep tight.
OMFG .... official returned vote statistics say the Yes side won.
Sep 19th, 2014 - 12:27 am - Link - Report abuse 0There is no UK anymore.
Wow. Jesus.
81
Sep 19th, 2014 - 12:44 am - Link - Report abuse 0Too early tit-face
Not only too early, Vestige (or, as Troy accurately calls you, 'tit-face'!), but, as is the norm for you, hopelessly wrong. It looks like the 'No' vote is going to win by between 8 and 12 percentage points.
Sep 19th, 2014 - 01:36 am - Link - Report abuse 0and total bullshit from vestigle..... 5 results in... 54% No....
Sep 19th, 2014 - 02:51 am - Link - Report abuse 0@66
Sep 19th, 2014 - 03:01 am - Link - Report abuse 0Good average players don't win Grand Slams - not in the 21st century. His record against Federer is 11-11.
@81
Every poll I've seen suggests the 'No' vote will win. Aberdeenshire 66% 'No'. The pound is 'surging'. Salmon has been described as looking 'ashen'. If I were a betting man I would be putting my money on Scotland remaining part of the U.K.
Vestige is usually wrong. Just ask him about Australian republicanism.
Sep 19th, 2014 - 03:04 am - Link - Report abuse 0Watching the BBC website at work. Will be interesting to see the really big electorates.
The news sites are all calling it a victory for the No vote.
Sep 19th, 2014 - 04:17 am - Link - Report abuse 0Elaine, the same. My cousins party, I'm told celebrated YES, but they'll learn that no has definitely won. This makes the situation much easier for everyone.
Sep 19th, 2014 - 04:24 am - Link - Report abuse 0Ty
Things will never be the same in the not so United Kingdom.
Sep 19th, 2014 - 04:37 am - Link - Report abuse 0City of London Caliphate referendum next :-)
http://www.cityam.com/1411033145/city-london-has-its-own-caliphate-and-they-have-away-days-hampshire
88
Sep 19th, 2014 - 04:42 am - Link - Report abuse 0MA,
irrelevant and childish, as usual.
Watching BBC News while Scotland sleeps -
NO
- 54%
YES
- 46%
26/32 returns are in.
Predicted outcome:
No - 55%
Troy Tempest Monkey Magic
Sep 19th, 2014 - 04:44 am - Link - Report abuse 0irrelevant and childish, as usual.
So the £ is up against the $ and the euro LOL
Sep 19th, 2014 - 04:51 am - Link - Report abuse 0http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-29268196
End of the 'uncertainty'.
Sep 19th, 2014 - 04:52 am - Link - Report abuse 0Poor Marcos, he is always on the losing side.
Sep 19th, 2014 - 05:04 am - Link - Report abuse 0Update to Troy's post:
NO 1,737,464 55.40%
YES 1,398,540 44.60%
TARGET TO WIN: 1,822,576
After 29 of 32 counts.
So looks like the no will actually garner more than 50% of the entire electorate!
@93 It was always a majority vote to win referendum. If it had been a first past the post, as in regular elections, it would have been an overwhelming NO. As it stands it will be around a 10% majority for the NO.
Sep 19th, 2014 - 05:17 am - Link - Report abuse 0The PM will make a statement in the next few hours to announce the next step. It seems there will be some new powers for Scotland - as promised - and more powers for the English, Welsh and N.I over issues particular to the individual countries.
The Scottish YES vote has lost independence but has won some concessions so hopefully this two year scrapping is at an end. The healing amongst the Scottish people can begin.
After Fife vote came in seconds ago....Official result......Indyref....No
Sep 19th, 2014 - 05:17 am - Link - Report abuse 0...Scotland No
Breaking News
Sep 19th, 2014 - 05:18 am - Link - Report abuse 0Posted at
Following the result in Fife, the official result is in. Scotland has voted No to independence.
So that it folks
Salmond is nowhere to be seen and some misshaped woman named Sturgeon is trying to make out as if her party has still won.
Sep 19th, 2014 - 05:21 am - Link - Report abuse 0NO 1,914,187 55.42%
YES 1,539,920 44.58%
TARGET TO WIN: 1,822,443
After 31 of 32 counts
So clearly more than FIFTY PERCENT of the entire electorate has voted no.
Pretty clear! Only 4 councils actually have a majority yes vote, the rest are all no.
I wish Think was alive to see this. He was so sure that Scotland would leave because of the Engrish as he called them.
Salmond is giving a speech now and has started by graciously admitting defeat. He has urged all Scottish people to accept it too. I suspect to deter any disappointed Yes voters causing trouble.
Sep 19th, 2014 - 05:26 am - Link - Report abuse 0What do you mean Skip...what has happened to Mr. Think...???
Sep 19th, 2014 - 05:27 am - Link - Report abuse 0Salmon is now making a concession speech. Quote: “Scotland has, by majority, decided not at this stage to become an independent country”. So that's that. It's a wrap.
Sep 19th, 2014 - 05:28 am - Link - Report abuse 0To his credit, Salmond acknowledged that the NO voters wanted the best for Scotland also.
Sep 19th, 2014 - 05:33 am - Link - Report abuse 031/32 regional areas returned:
No - 55%
Hahahahahah
Sep 19th, 2014 - 05:34 am - Link - Report abuse 0Lest we forget......Freeeeeeeeedom
Oh dear....perhaps not!
English Parliament the result....hehehehehe
Voice, I just assumed he had fallen off the perch.
Sep 19th, 2014 - 05:37 am - Link - Report abuse 0It is what old people do.
Unsure who is more upset, the YES campaigners or Malvinistas.
If the Scots vote yes”.......................................
Sep 19th, 2014 - 05:39 am - Link - Report abuse 01.6 million voted YES for independence and did not fear the usual scaremongering from the gangsters in London.
Sep 19th, 2014 - 05:40 am - Link - Report abuse 0Fear won the day!
Salmond is such a cunt....you lost man....resign, resign resign.
Sep 19th, 2014 - 05:40 am - Link - Report abuse 0Scotland has lost power because of him. Their power in Westminster will be demonised forever. All the really important stuff will now be decided by the English.
Thanks Alex....
“DoD” and “Think” buried down deep now, Voicey??
Sep 19th, 2014 - 05:41 am - Link - Report abuse 0When will they have the temerity to re- emerge?
Please tell us.
“1.6 million voted YES for independence and did not fear the usual scaremongering from the gangsters in London.”
Sep 19th, 2014 - 05:45 am - Link - Report abuse 0Exactly Marcos.
1.6 million people felt they had the right to vote YES without fear and in an open and democratic way.
84.48% turnout and only 3,262 spoilt ballots. And unlike in Argentina, it wasn't a security nightmare than needed the army with guns at every polling booth.
The answer was given within 12 hours of close.
Gotta love democracy.
And the NO voters were confident they could vote as their consciences dictated, without fear of “ Nationalists”.
Sep 19th, 2014 - 05:51 am - Link - Report abuse 0Yes or No, they are all Scottish Patriots.
Waiting for the Marcos mealy-mouthed reply.
108
Sep 19th, 2014 - 05:52 am - Link - Report abuse 0Skip
We love our independent country, many in Scotland wish to have one and many in your beloved Australia will love not to have an English queen as a head of state.
Voila!!!
Sep 19th, 2014 - 05:54 am - Link - Report abuse 0Marcos
Sep 19th, 2014 - 05:58 am - Link - Report abuse 0Last time I checked the Queen of Australia was our queen. But what more can I expect from the Argentine education system. The fact that you can't understand our constitutional setup is a reflection on your inadequacies.
We are independent with out own queen. Scotland is part of the UK with their own queen.
You get Cristina and a failing country.
“Some hate the English. I don't. They're just wankers. We, on the other hand, are COLONIZED by wankers”
Sep 19th, 2014 - 06:00 am - Link - Report abuse 0https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wqgkZDbe4Xk
Cristina is the world's oldest 'Princess', not Queen
Sep 19th, 2014 - 06:01 am - Link - Report abuse 0Marcos
Sep 19th, 2014 - 06:05 am - Link - Report abuse 0I wouldn't call Cristina English, but I would call her a wanker.
So I only half agree with your statement.
Good speech, Cameron,
Sep 19th, 2014 - 06:13 am - Link - Report abuse 0“Like millions of others, I am delighted... ”
” ...a big relief for people around the world
“There can be no disputes. No re-runs. We have heard the settled will of the Scottish people.”
Sep 19th, 2014 - 06:27 am - Link - Report abuse 0If anything, I would have to say that this process has bolstered UK power around the world, both soft and hard. The fact they were willing to give the vote to one of their nations and the fact that independence was declined.
In places like Russia and China (which see themselves as would be superpowers, the truth is that secessionism and 'splittism' can get you thrown into jail and even killed by the government.
Like millions of others I am deeply disappointed.
Sep 19th, 2014 - 06:53 am - Link - Report abuse 0I feel a mixture of sadness for Scotland, and pity for all those gullible No voters.
What an absolute waste of a golden opportunity.
The No vote did not win by much, so never fret, we YES people are not going to be deterred world. ;-)
Remember not too long ago the YES was 22 points behind, this is just the beginning regarding what Cameron says.
Sep 19th, 2014 - 07:04 am - Link - Report abuse 0Millions??? 1.6 million to be exact! Just like their bagpipes too many Scots are full of wind! What a cynical exageration? The location of the majority of Yes voters says it all. Well done Mrs Rowling, Gordon Broon and Alistair.
Sep 19th, 2014 - 07:49 am - Link - Report abuse 0And, great that Scotland has prompted political change for the better all over our wonderful country.
The Voice
Truly in deepest Surrey (ha ha!)
United Kingdom
The UK was at least brave enough to put the Scottish question to a free democratic vote. Let's see how the Govt of Spain now reacts and whether it gives Catalonia a democratic choice. Who knows this might spread around the World to the extent that Patagonia might decide freedom and seek independence from Buenos Ares and why not
Sep 19th, 2014 - 08:38 am - Link - Report abuse 0Overtaken by events!
Sep 19th, 2014 - 08:49 am - Link - Report abuse 084.
Sep 19th, 2014 - 09:21 am - Link - Report abuse 0I havent being following tennis lately. Yes but he is very far from and definetely out competed by other players. He was a stupid guy for letting his feelings known for the world at last minute to lose though... Not entirely true that he decided at last minute to go Yes due to the “negativity” of NO and for what I gather he doesn't even live nor train in Scotland, so he doesn't get a vote.
It just doesnt look good that he plays for GB now
Those that say it was close are deluded. Fully 10% more voters voted no than yes.
Sep 19th, 2014 - 09:23 am - Link - Report abuse 0Only 4 out of 32 councils had a majority yes vote.
Marcos Alejandro us grasping at any straw possible but the result is in and it's emphatic. There is no groundswell for another vote anytime soon. It is a larger percentage vote that CFK received and that figure is bandied around by many Argentineans as proof of her mandate.
124. NO was going to win in any case but a low turn out in Glasgow 75% (Yes bastion ) compared to the rest of the country 87% is what probably explained the 10% difference
Sep 19th, 2014 - 09:27 am - Link - Report abuse 085 - not wrong, just couldn't resist a quick troll. I wonder how many crumpets were dropped.
Sep 19th, 2014 - 09:32 am - Link - Report abuse 0Oh BTW - if you'd care to check I've said all along that it would be a no.
As for Australian becoming a republic - that will be a yes. Happily taking all bets when that one rolls around.
WELL THAT SHOULD SHUT THE ARGYS UP
Sep 19th, 2014 - 09:45 am - Link - Report abuse 0you lost AGAIN losers.
@123 CD
Sep 19th, 2014 - 09:48 am - Link - Report abuse 0'Good average players' don't even become professionals. Good average professional players don't make the top 100, and good average top 100 players don't make the top 20, let alone the top ten.
The top three are so exceptional that beating them even once is a great achievement. Murray has beaten them, collectively, 24 times. Pretty damn good. If Del Potro could stay injury free, he'd be up there too IMO.
I agree with your last sentence. Playing Davis Cup could be a little uncomfortable for awhile. I think you're being a bit hard on him though. Either way people were going to be pissed off at him. On a hiding to nothing as we say...
Vestige
Sep 19th, 2014 - 10:02 am - Link - Report abuse 0“As for Australian becoming a republic - that will be a yes. Happily taking all bets when that one rolls around.”
Well do it then. Tell us when you estimate it.
I'll say now that I don't see Australia becoming a republic before 2050.
You're turn. If you dare! Though I do think you already said the next 10 years somewhere.
128. “The top three are so exceptional that beating them even once is a great achievement. Murray has beaten them, collectively, 24 times.”
Sep 19th, 2014 - 10:04 am - Link - Report abuse 0I dint know that but he doesnt have a habbit of defeating them in Grand Slams thats for sure.
He should not be called for the GB Davies Team
125 CabezaDura2
Sep 19th, 2014 - 10:12 am - Link - Report abuse 0If the turnout in Glasgow had been higher and we assume the yes/no vote split was the same there would be little change to %
131. So why was most of Salmonds and the SNP hope based on Glasgow??
Sep 19th, 2014 - 10:18 am - Link - Report abuse 0@130
Sep 19th, 2014 - 10:23 am - Link - Report abuse 0“He should not be called for the GB Davies Team.” No choice - he's the only good player they have. There'll be a bit of resentment, but a few jokes and they'll get over it.
The 75% statistic is interesting. If a 'Yes' vote is what those who didn't vote wanted they only have themselves to blame.
@132
Sep 19th, 2014 - 10:26 am - Link - Report abuse 0They had hoped that the percentage of yes votes was going to be far higher than the 53% that they achieved.
*121 The Spanish catalans voted in the 1979 Constitutional referendum: If they wanted autonomy and 93% voted yes so there is noway that the are going to change the rules now!! as it would be inconstitutional and illegal. By the way The Catalans have an autonomous region which has more powers than Westinster gives Scotland. They have 100 % control over education where Catalan is taught in all levels, control over their tax sysyem, Catalan television and radio, their own police force.........something that Scotland can only dream about!!!!! That is what I call democracy.
Sep 19th, 2014 - 11:01 am - Link - Report abuse 0@135
Sep 19th, 2014 - 11:22 am - Link - Report abuse 0shows how little you know about Scotland
Come on, Murray expressed his opinion and is perfectly entitled to do so in a democracy. He is not an enemy of the UK for doing so.
Sep 19th, 2014 - 11:48 am - Link - Report abuse 0“By the way The Catalans have an autonomous region which has more powers than Westinster gives Scotland. They have 100 % control over education where Catalan is taught in all levels, control over their tax sysyem, Catalan television and radio, their own police force.........something that Scotland can only dream about!!!!!”
Sep 19th, 2014 - 11:49 am - Link - Report abuse 0Did he just say that? He obviously knows nothing about Scotland.
*136 Does Scotland have their own police force??
Sep 19th, 2014 - 11:49 am - Link - Report abuse 0Does Scotland have their own Broadcasting services ( BBc not included)??
Is Gaelic spoken and taught in all levels of Education??
@139
Sep 19th, 2014 - 12:10 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Policing
http://www.spa.police.uk/
http://www.spa.police.uk/
TV
http://www.spa.police.uk/
There are only about 60,000 people who speak Gaelic in Scotland - what would be achieved by teaching Gaelic ?
139
Sep 19th, 2014 - 12:25 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Children in the junior schools have a choice of their children attending what is called the Gaelic medium....
Strangely enough the people that usually opt for this are English incomer parents....weird...
If the Catalans decide they want their own Nation they will not be denied.
Sep 19th, 2014 - 12:32 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The Spanish PM appears to have aged considerably. Must be all the worry.
Wasn't it nice to hear one of the returning Officers speak in Gaelic.
140 Stv?? Guess who is the chairman of STV ?? Baroness Margaret Ford member of the House of Lords!!! so much for a scottish TV!!?? with ITV being the other main partner. Guess Who owns the Catalonia TV and Radio?? The Catalan Government...
Sep 19th, 2014 - 12:33 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The police uniform for a Scottish policeman and a British policeman is the same!! whereas the Catalan police (known as -mossos d esquadra) has a very distinctive different uniform to the Spanish police.
Who would want to speak Gaelic?? Gaelic people. The Scots. That is why they call themselves nationalists.
Why does the TV broadcaster have to be owned by the government?
Sep 19th, 2014 - 12:45 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Does a policeman wearing a different uniform make him a better policeman?
Again only 60,000 people speak Gaelic, will speaking Gaelic make those who don't speak it better Scots?
@143
Sep 19th, 2014 - 12:50 pm - Link - Report abuse 0If you were to actually look at the way the Scottish regions voted you would see that the main Gaelic speaking areas (Highlands and Islands) voted 'No' whereas Glasgow and Dundee which voted 'Yes' are not Gaelic speaking areas.
The BBC also broadcasts BBC Alba which is a Gaelic TV channel.
The fact that Scottish Police wear similar uniforms to their UK counterparts does not mean they are not a separate police force.
The Garda here in RoI also wear a similar uniform to the UK Police forces.
.So once again you demonstrate your ignorance about Scotland ( and RoI)
...the funny thing about the gaelic speakers is they are predominantly from the Western Isles....
Sep 19th, 2014 - 01:02 pm - Link - Report abuse 0...and are not descended from Scots, but Vikings...The Lords of the Isles...
I live on a Scottish island where they've never spoken Gaelic. They did speak a version of Norse (possibly called norn or something similar) and Norse words and place names still feature in the local dialect, similar to Northern England.
Sep 19th, 2014 - 01:04 pm - Link - Report abuse 0*145 Did they vote not to speak Gaelic or not to split from the uk????!!!!
Sep 19th, 2014 - 01:06 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The refrendum was about unity not language.
EVERYTHING IS bbc bbc bbc bbc!!! where is the STV that is not owned by the BBC or Baroness Margaret Ford???
By the the Irish police is known as GARDAI not GARDA!! and the uniform is not like The British uniform in any way..English troll trying to be Irish!!!
The Lord's Prayer in Scots
Sep 19th, 2014 - 01:07 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Oor Faither wha bides in heiven,
Hallowt be thy name;
Thy Kinrick come;
Thy will be dune
In the yird, as in the lan o’ the leal.
Gie us wir breid ilk day;
An forgie us wir ill-daein,
As oo forgie the yins wha wrang us;
An sey-us-na sairlie,
But saul us frae provokshi0
For aye, thine’s the Kinrjck, the pooer, the glore
Amen
The above is an example of why The Scots want to break from the UK!! so would I!!!
Sep 19th, 2014 - 01:11 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@150
Sep 19th, 2014 - 01:16 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Actually the Scots have voted not to break away from the UK.
The Lord's Prayer in Middle Scots - M. Nisbet c. 1520
LORD'S PRAYER
Our fader that art in heuenis,
hallewit be thi name.
Thi kingdom cum to.
Thi wil be done in erde, as in heuen.
Gefe to vs this day our breid ouer vthir substance.
And forgif to vs our dettis,
as we forgef to our dettouris.
And leid vs nocht into temptatioun,
bot deliuer vs fra euile.
Amen.
Is it just me or is aussiesunshinee showing exactly how different Catalonia is from Spain?
Sep 19th, 2014 - 01:37 pm - Link - Report abuse 0No wonder they want to leave, they have nothing in common with the rest of Spain. Language, police and TV.
All aussiesunshinee has done is prove that Scotland has ties that bind and Catalonia doesn't.
Seems a good reason for Scotland to stay and Catalonia to leave.
*152 exactly!! a wise man amongst the crowd!!
Sep 19th, 2014 - 01:55 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Give the Scot nationalist party 35 years in power , which is how long the
Catalan nationalists have been in power, and the Scots will be speaking Gaelic out of
their ears.Give them control over regional television and you shall be
brain washed. Give them control over Education and they will destroy the
English language in all forms and ways........
If 45 % of Scots have voted NO now, imagine what the results be in 30-40 years when the nationalists have controlled regional tv and the education system
among other things!! Is this not what Cameron has promised Salmond??
WELL DONE 152.!!!
@148
Sep 19th, 2014 - 02:43 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Idiot - Garda is the Police Force, Gardaí are Police Officers
I feel so sorry for our Catalan friends having to live under Spanish rule. The Spanish on here sound extremely arrogant and aggressive. The UK and EU must look into ways of pressurising Spain so they might be forced to end their unreasonable and evil oppression. Let Catalans have a democratic vote on their future either within Spain or as an independent sovereign state. The Basques should also now be assisted towards nationhood.
Sep 19th, 2014 - 03:12 pm - Link - Report abuse 0129 - Anglo.
Sep 19th, 2014 - 03:24 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The next elected centrist or left leaning govt in Australia will call a referendum and Aus will be a republic shortly there after.
Hows that for specific terms.
First page results on google search -
I didn't even have to try.
Read the article, click on the vote box.
http://www.news.com.au/national/as-scotland-votes-in-independence-referendum-its-time-to-ask-should-australia-become-a-republic/story-fncynjr2-1227062749478
@156
Sep 19th, 2014 - 03:30 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Here we go again, an open poll that anyone in the world can click on to register a vote does not mean that the result reflects what the Australian people think.
Honi soit qui mal y pense
Sep 19th, 2014 - 03:37 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Philippe
Ohh he has a right but... Waiting for the last minute and claim that he is made up his mind of the “negativity of NO campaign” (which is total BS) added the time Murray anti english remarks, and made his career in England and got his money from England, not Scotland ... Nahh, I wouldn't want him in my team if I were you.
Sep 19th, 2014 - 05:16 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The referendum is over,
Sep 19th, 2014 - 06:06 pm - Link - Report abuse 0move on their are more pressing problems in the world.
129 Anglotino
Sep 19th, 2014 - 06:31 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“I'll say now that I don't see Australia becoming a republic before 2050”
More power to you!!
To be perfectly honest, if Australia wants to become a republic then good on them. They have every right to decide that for themselves, at a time of their own choosing.
No one is going to, or has the right to stop them. Good luck to our brothers and sisters down under.
Just one point for all the trolls and well, for everyone else on here as well
US President Obama welcomes result of Scottish referendum, praises its people for “energetic exercise of democracy”
I hope that all countries in this world recognise this “energetic exercise of democracy” and uses it to learn how to settle differences peacefully.
Its called democracy,
Sep 19th, 2014 - 06:41 pm - Link - Report abuse 0something you argies need to learn
I been online, reading this from the Brasilian, German, British, points of view for the past few months. Nothing however from Scotland.( The Daily Mail doesn't count ).
Sep 19th, 2014 - 09:10 pm - Link - Report abuse 0We have Sky here on television, which caters to our local market. I did go to Sky News.com and found a Sky Live button, for those interested:
http://news.sky.com/us/
Watch it just as 5 minutes later Alex Salmond announced his resignation as Scottish First Secretary.
156 Verbiage
Sep 19th, 2014 - 11:25 pm - Link - Report abuse 0What a simpleton you are.
Maybe, just intellectually lazy??
*155 Why don´t you give your gob a rest!! it needs it!!don´t stick your nose in Spanish affairs that you know nothing of!! Spain does not take to kindly to a few fanatics who want to destroy the country. They have been up that path too many times to have learnt that SPAIN IS NOT FOR SALE...PERIOD!!!
Sep 20th, 2014 - 12:10 am - Link - Report abuse 0#156
Sep 20th, 2014 - 01:16 am - Link - Report abuse 0Australia has already had a referendum on becoming a republic and they voted against it. If they want another one I'm sure no one will try to stop them and the result will be honoured.
#156 last Vestige - Anglo.
Sep 20th, 2014 - 01:29 am - Link - Report abuse 0“The next elected centrist or left leaning govt in Australia will call a referendum and Aus will be a republic shortly there after. ” (Sic)
It is for Australians to decide their constitutional arrangements. Unlike other countries we are free to choose. Australia may or may not become a republic at some point in the future.
But if it does, nothing will change regarding our international relations, we will continue to support our friends and allies like the UK, and we will continue to do our bit in combating the dark and evil forces that are at large and trying to impose their despotic, murderous will upon others.
This is in sharp contrast to countries like argentina, Venezuela and all the usual parasitic suspects who are obsessed with their own issues and can only throw rocks at countries like Australia and the UK who are prepared to do their bit for the world.
Besides wasting the UNs time, what has argentina done for the world lately?
Vestige doesn't even understand how his search results are manipulated by Google based on his search and browsing history.
Sep 20th, 2014 - 04:53 am - Link - Report abuse 0“First page results on google search -
I didn't even have to try.”
Exactly he didn't even try.
It is no wonder he is wrong so frequently. At least in our country our constitutional future is discussed. We could be like Spain and just shut it down and attempt to oppress any dissenting views.
If anyone is interested I have some good links on my laptop re our republican cause. None are good for poor Vestige
And if evidence was required to prove the unacceptable oppression Catalans have to endure our resident Spanish hater provides it.
Sep 20th, 2014 - 06:51 am - Link - Report abuse 0Threats won't hold a Country together not least one so universally despised as Spain. The writing is on the wall for all those who can see, Catalans will be free and there is nothing Spain with all it's hate and threats of state violence can do to prevent it.
#168 Anglotino“
Sep 20th, 2014 - 08:10 am - Link - Report abuse 0At least in our country our constitutional future is discussed. We could be like Spain and just shut it down and attempt to oppress any dissenting views.”
Spot on mate!
Besides its none of his business, he is just another rock throwing troll.
*169 The writing is on the wall for any fanatic like yourself who wishes to break away!! they just never learn until it is too late!! ..and then it is too late.
Sep 20th, 2014 - 08:29 am - Link - Report abuse 0There are two types of Nationalism in Spain the Catalans and the Spaniards.The Catalans have ben making a lot of noise while the Spaniards have been fairly quite but if they awake their fury will be heard from Madrid to Washington..and they are not a pretty sight to see.....
That's nothing new, most Spanish are ugly and Spanish women are famed for their facial hair.
Sep 20th, 2014 - 09:27 am - Link - Report abuse 0As you say there are two types of Nationalism.
1) Spanish Nationalism is fascism.
2) Catalan Nationalism is freedom from the above.
“...the Spaniards have been fairly quite but if they awake their fury will be heard from Madrid to Washington..and they are not a pretty sight to see.....”
Sep 20th, 2014 - 09:48 am - Link - Report abuse 0Why would it be heard in Washington? Spaniards have been venting their fury at their pathetic economy for years now and.....
And.....
Yeah pretty much nothing.
Catalonia could just be the first. There's the Basque region. Then there's Galicia.
Won't be so much noise in rump Spain.
No wonder Madrid is packing itself.
#173 “Catalonia could just be the first. There's the Basque region. Then there's Galicia. ”
Sep 20th, 2014 - 12:13 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Then there's Gibraltar which 'left' centuries ago!
If Catalonia leaves Spain then Spain's entire claim to Gibraltar is null and void as Spain's territorial integrity can no longer be used as a claim. Neither can historical ownership.
Sep 20th, 2014 - 01:30 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Poor Madrid, you can almost feel sorry for them.
So the Scots chickened out ehh! I hope they stop blaming the English for all their problems now & realize that they only have themselves to blame.
Sep 20th, 2014 - 01:54 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Also can't wait for Murray at Wimbledon next year..... Listening to all the Boo Boys!!!
@176
Sep 20th, 2014 - 02:31 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Murrays one of us, the 45%. He ain't no chicken.
We don't blame the English for anything, (as you erroneously believe) we blame politicians, and dishonest government.
What are the restrictions Spain has put on two RAF planes in Gibraltar, something to do with a NATO exercise in Spain, but the Gibraltar chronicle stops short of explaining why.
Sep 20th, 2014 - 06:01 pm - Link - Report abuse 0BBC bias throuought the whole lead up to, during, and after the referendum.
Sep 20th, 2014 - 09:43 pm - Link - Report abuse 0These are the NO voters in action........
http://wingsoverscotland.com/enough-is-enough/
YES lost.
Sep 21st, 2014 - 12:11 am - Link - Report abuse 0Get over it and move on.
We are moving on.
Sep 21st, 2014 - 03:11 am - Link - Report abuse 0Who are you to be telling people what to do regarding their country's politics?
Who are you to tell anybody?
???
Who are you to mock that country's referendum outcome, when BOTH sides acknowledge that it was just, fair, motivated by patriotism by both parties, and a shining example of democracy in action?
Sep 21st, 2014 - 05:20 am - Link - Report abuse 0Me? Just me?
Sep 21st, 2014 - 06:20 am - Link - Report abuse 0Wake up and smell the coffee. Forget what Salmond said in his stand-down speech.
Myself and over a million other 45'ers will not give up until Scotland is independent again.
Have a look and see what is going on now in Scotland.
Its a whole fuckin lot of us mate, not just me.
And there are a lot more who don't want that - they stood up to be counted.
Sep 21st, 2014 - 06:34 am - Link - Report abuse 0Are the other million as bitter and angry as you?
YES lost.
Sep 21st, 2014 - 08:33 am - Link - Report abuse 0Get over it and move on.
“Myself and over a million other 45'ers will not give up until Scotland is independent again”
Not in your lifetime mate.
It's Salmonds fault he should have insisted that independence would have been achieved if 45% of residents in Scotland voted yes.
Sep 21st, 2014 - 09:18 am - Link - Report abuse 0As it is we have a mess with Labour not wanting two classes of MP at Westminster and English people not wanting two classes of Voters.
Westminster politicians should take a voluntary pay cut to account for their total incompetence.
Salmon has caused all this, you guys supported him and believed all the disgusting lies that he told, you are slowly beginning to look like CFK supporters,
Sep 21st, 2014 - 10:25 am - Link - Report abuse 0the result will stand so live with it,
if you want change then change it and stop demining things that will only hurt others,
1, become a councillor get out and about, become an MP ,
work for change, we are one, or we are NOTHING.
our enemies abroad are watching you like hawks , ready and waiting to jump..
together or disunited,.....
“We are one, or we are nothing”
Sep 21st, 2014 - 12:13 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Sorry Briton, usually agree, but cannot agree with you there.
As far as RUK's enemies are concerned do you reckon they would like to glow in the dark. Cameron lost his nerve on the basis of one poll. No way will the English accept 50 Scottish MP's , the balance of power in Westminster, telling England what it can and cannot do.....period. NO TAXATION - NO REPRESENTATION.
Has a certain ring to it .......don't you THINK.
As usual those who don't like the facts I present choose inferences, finger pointing, insults towards countries they think I might be connected to, petty insults.
Sep 21st, 2014 - 12:28 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Anything to escape the issue.
But denial won't change the facts.
And to the genius who mentioned a prior 'no' victory in Australias referendum - explain why you think this means a 'yes' can't be the result in the next one.
Let's also remember how close the result was in that event.
The English monarchy has played its last major PR hand in Australia, weddings, babies are good for their marketing but the effect dies off quickly and theyve only got two or three significant events left in them.
Republicans will time it right.
The prospect of King Charles for the Australian male in particular will see to the rest.
189
Sep 21st, 2014 - 03:14 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Yer off-topic with your anti-monarchy ravings again, Mendocinovino... er, Vestige.
190 - so stop me
Sep 21st, 2014 - 03:55 pm - Link - Report abuse 0188 Englander
Sep 21st, 2014 - 06:19 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I stand by what I said, united or nothing,
I did not mention the skittish MPs,
There are two way to deal with this,
[My way] and just my opinion,
Or the Governments way, [ I which we are heading ]
The government way with a very weak Cameron , totally deluded clegg, and lost milband,
Will promise salmon everything even the British Crown to say,
Home rule = independence full stop
The English as such don’t want home rule, because we know that will mean more Bureaucracy more politicians and more waste. Political greed complacency and just pure self interest has caused all this, putting others before your own country,
We spend billions on others whilst our own country suffers,
Scotland has just voted to stay, that means united one government,
But our weak and pathetic parliament will spoil and protect Scotland at our expence,
Wales will be next, the welsh government stated today, that if they [meaning us] thinks we [wales] are going to play second fiddle then they are wrong, we want our home rule,
They care not of the people, just there own inflated egos, to destroy what has taken 300 years to build,
That’s nationalist policy for you, mr salmon has sown the seeds to the break up of this island,
We need strong tough determined unionist government,
Is that to much to ask for, they voted to stay, but this government is determined to push them away, thus insulting the Scots who voted to stay,
Or my opinion [later]
..
Let's look at Vestige's latest take on Australian republicanism.
Sep 21st, 2014 - 10:50 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“And to the genius who mentioned a prior 'no' victory in Australias referendum - explain why you think this means a 'yes' can't be the result in the next one.
Let's also remember how close the result was in that event.”
Close?
The result wasn't even close.
As usual his ability to understand what he opines on is severely lacking. To look at the 54.8% no vote and think it was close means that he doesn't even understand how referenda work in Australia. A double majority is needed. A majority of votes in a majority of states.
Not a SINGLE state had a yes majority. Not one. Four were needed. But not a single state could muster a majority.
Also usually overlooked was the other referendum question about changing the constitution preamble which failed as well.
Indeed referenda in Australia are notorious for failing. Only Switzerland has held more referenda than Australia. And of 44 referenda only 8 have passed. The last being in 1977.
Vestige has an extremely shallow understanding of Australia's distrust of politicians.
“The English monarchy has played its last major PR hand in Australia, weddings, babies are good for their marketing but the effect dies off quickly and theyve only got two or three significant events left in them.”
There is no English monarchy. There a British one. And in Australia there is an Australian one. Again a poor understanding.
“Republicans will time it right.
The prospect of King Charles for the Australian male in particular will see to the rest.”
Actually the concept of King Charles is now more popular than republicanism.
Indeed the second most republican leaning age group after the over 50s?
The 18-24 year olds. The young and immigrants love the current system.
So Vestige estimates a republic within 15 years. I now push my estimate out to next century. Read the articles you dislike Vestige to get the full picture. Cherry picking is half the story.
My opinion,
Sep 21st, 2014 - 11:23 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I would send England to the polls, to vote on what WE want to be
1, England and thus recognised as English.
2, Great Britain and , or united British isle, and thus recognised as British
i.e. do we want to go it alone or be plain great Britain/united British islands=that others can join,
????
[1] England and fXck the rest full stop.
The other two means we are willing to remain British and any and all others that wish to join us,
Cannot join as Ireland, Scotland, Wales, channel isle outer Hebrides , etc etc
They join as [ Great Britain][united British isle] what ever the English decided
And will be British forever, , one country , one nation , one people.
They have brought this on themselves, those who think fxck you and want to go it alone, then so be it, full stop,
The English are the biggest and main contributor on this island and if we get no say, or reduced to 3rd place whilst Scotland and Wales rules the roost, then we are better of alone.
But giving the English a choice whenever to go it alone or still willing to share and remain British
Will be their choice, and the rest of this island either comes with us,, or goes it alone,
Rather that make the English beg to them, we will give them the free choice of coming with us, or go it alone,
Lets end this once and for all, and one thing at a time,
At the very least we will know that not one or the other aint going to come back in time and demand independence,, not if they give up ones individual nationality to be totally British.
Let start from scratch NOW whilst we are here, then we will see who really hates us,
As I said just my opinion, and this is not set in stone,
A strong robust British government.
.
this is just an example, and I expect some criticism,
but somewhere along these lines will yet solve an unsolvable political problem.
just me chaps.
193# “Vestige has an extremely shallow understanding of Australia's distrust of politicians”
Sep 22nd, 2014 - 07:41 am - Link - Report abuse 0Last vestige should mind his own business, concern himself with changing the things he can, whatever they may be.
Nah he can always comment because it just shows how ignorant he is.
Sep 22nd, 2014 - 09:29 am - Link - Report abuse 0Not to mention clueless. He thinks his wishes should equal facts on the ground and because he has read a couple of articles here and there believes that he can see a groundswell of support against an institution that he dislikes. He just can't fathom how independent countries can share a monarchy.
It does not compute.
Hardly surprising considering he is too embarrassed to clearly state where he lives. Such secrecy is a common occurrence on this site.
#196 Anglotino “Such secrecy is a common occurrence on this site.”
Sep 22nd, 2014 - 10:41 am - Link - Report abuse 0Chameleons united in hatred, different handles, same dickheads!
Alex Salmond says No voters were 'tricked'
Sep 22nd, 2014 - 12:57 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The First Minister goes back on his promise to accept the referendum result and raises the prospect of Scotland unilaterally declaring independence.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/scottish-independence/11111705/Alex-Salmond-says-No-voters-were-tricked.html
The First Minister appeared to blame elderly Scots, who were most hostile to leaving the UK, for holding back younger generations and argued that independence is inevitable after they die off.
Jim Sillars, his former mentor and a former SNP deputy leader, tweeted that the nationalists should “assert” a new rule that Scotland would become independent
First Minister argued the break-up of Britain is inevitable they could well declare UDI.
Some now say=
His words are fundamentally undemocratic and an insult to the people of Scotland. Salmond may regret the result but this reaction is dangerous and wrong
• Last week Alex Salmond struck a blow against Free Speech and Freedom of the press by banning those who wronged him from his resignation speech.
This week he rejects democracy
The true face of nationalism is beginning to show its ugly face. If Salmond & Co had their way, they would lead the nation straight into a civil war. What other conclusion can we draw from his unchallenged statements that things now lie in the hands of the Scottish people? Nothing more than a veiled threat of civil disobedience which would undoubtedly lead to civil war. Be afraid of this tyrant. Be very afraid
.
Lowering the voting age, Salmond does seem to be relying on the uneducated and disaffected youth segments.
Sep 22nd, 2014 - 02:31 pm - Link - Report abuse 0They have less to lose, and more to gain by separation. They are also more easily manipulated, just like La Campora's ground troops.
Salmond has retired.
Sep 22nd, 2014 - 03:08 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Probably Nichola Sturgeon will take over now.
Were now pushing for a referendum in 2020 or before.
Expect us. :)
More crap from “Excuses Dildo”!!
Sep 22nd, 2014 - 05:14 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Well Troy, plain to see now your interest in the Falkland Islands is purely due to you being an Anglophile. Not because you give a damn about the Islanders. (As I do)
Sep 22nd, 2014 - 08:39 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I also see a little juvinility creeping in to your rant. (Wow saying Dildo? That's original)
Meanwhile read this.
http://m.huffpost.com/uk/entry/5858664?utm_hp_ref=tw
Do yourself a favour, visit the UK, and Scotland in particular.
Educate yourself ffs........
(200) Escoses Doido
Sep 22nd, 2014 - 08:47 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Not sure Lady Sturgeon is the right choice...
Remember that, by English Law, all Sturgeons belong to the Sassenach Monarch...
A Mr. Powan or Mrs. Vendance, perhaps.
Anything but a “Spineless Stickleback” ;-)))
“Were now pushing for a referendum in 2020 or before.”
Sep 22nd, 2014 - 08:54 pm - Link - Report abuse 0No you're not.
Stop making sh!t up.
202 “excuses D”
Sep 22nd, 2014 - 09:05 pm - Link - Report abuse 0”Well Troy, plain to see now your interest in the Falkland Islands is purely due to you being an Anglophile. Not because you give a damn about the Islanders. (As I do)”
Bs, you sound like nothing more than a malicious malcontent.
Some childish fantasy posts, yourself.
When did you start caring for the Islanders?
Troy
Sep 22nd, 2014 - 10:27 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You have to understand this is the guy that posted links to pictures of his passport where the number and expiry date were clearly visible.
Post which I reported and had removed. Even fools don't deserve to have their identity stolen.
His intelligence level has therefore been known to me for some time.
So 4 or 5 personal insults/accusations there from downunder and anglo.
Sep 22nd, 2014 - 10:57 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Exactly why I don't mention where I live nor my nationality/nationalities.
Not that I can't take personal insults, if someone calls me a dog I simply check to see if I have a tail, but its just so tedious.
Anyhoo - I'd certainly call ~55%/45% in a referendum a very close call.
Saying otherwise is self-delusion now isn't it ?
The state thing only shows an even distribution.
(preamble and monarchy questions not being interdependent)
If you're on the wrong side of the majority then you can call a king/queen what you like - the game is over when you're not considered the leader by the majority of the people. Im king/queen ... sure you are buddy.
With respect to her, when queen Lizzy kicks it Australia will have seen its last British monarch. Thats if there isn't a republic established beforehand.
Incidentally NZ has chosen to hold a referendum on the British monarchy when she does pass on.
The prospect of king Charles won't go down well in Aus. Dont expect a king of Australia, an unelected/unproven male claiming superiority doesn't sit well with the Aussie male psyche.
(A female would possibly work - but not an option)
(If monarchy is passed to William on account of Charles' lack of popularity what do you have ... the people indirectly choosing their head of state, thats not monarchy ... thats the 'voice of the people' deciding)
And please get real about who the queen is, she's the queen of England ... then on paper queen of a lot of other places too.
Australia, and all those other 2nd placers has an English monarch, please don't fool yourself.
(btw -if Scotland had gone independent would that mean the rest of GB would change its flag - removing the Saltire ?? - and if so what would Aus do, national flag decided by pssed off Scots ??)
(btww - checked the political betting odds for an Aus republic, the figures go in only one direction, consistent trend, and it aint in your favor anglo)
@206
Sep 22nd, 2014 - 11:00 pm - Link - Report abuse 0https://uk.news.yahoo.com/why-second-scottish-independence-referendum-may-happen-sooner-090845847.html#1yVeAg3
208. Do you read what you post?
Sep 23rd, 2014 - 12:03 am - Link - Report abuse 0A blog by a SCOTTISH journalist, Described as “pro-independence journalist”, hardly being objective here.
All he is saying is, the Scots MIGHT want another Referendum if EU membership becomes an issue.
There is some sour mumbling about “bogus” arguments that a “vote for NO, was a vote to stay in the EU”.
It seems that a vote for the SNP would have certainly meant Scotland would be OUT Of the EU.
“UKip hellhole”? - why's that?
I really wonder which Militant Scottish “Nationalists”, who don't respect a Democratic referendum to stay in the UK, would be content to be pushed around as junior members of a union ruled from Brussels???
How stupid are you?
Vestige you don't mention your nationality because it will detract from the persona you put forth on this site.
Sep 23rd, 2014 - 12:15 am - Link - Report abuse 0You talk about the Australian male psyche which is nothing more than your opinion. Elizabeth II is not the last monarch of Australia. There is a groundswell for the status quo and republicanism is at a 20 year low so it can't be only going in one direction. You keep taking wishful thinking and attempting to make it reality.
“~55%/45% in a referendum a very close call.”
It's NOT close. Why do you keep saying it is? You need a DOUBLE MAJORITY in Australian referenda. You seem to dense to understand what that means. Let me help you out.
50%+1 means nothing in Australia referenda unlike Scotland.
There were 13,726,070 voters in the last federal election. It is statistically possible for 12,629,466 to vote for a republic and it would STILL FAIL.
So you could have 92.01% vote YES and still it wouldn't pass.
That is CLOSE. You only need to convince 1,369,804 people in the states of WA, SA and Tasmania to foil a referendum.
Whether it is Charles or William, one of these will be our next King. All the talk about a republic when Elizabeth dies means nothing because you still have to have a referendum and that takes at least a year and by then we will have our new king. And people will still realise that system still works.
Unlike you, I know what young Australians and new migrants and thinking because I ask them.
Next September Elizabeth becomes the world's longest reigning Queen in world history and the longest reigning monarch of any place in the British Isles.
She'll be around for at least another decade and republicianism will be even less popular than now.
As for changing our flag, why would we? The Union Flag on our flag shows our history not the present UK. The UK can do what it likes with their flag, however ours can only be changed by a referendum (see above).
PS: The last Queen of England was Anne.
PPS: No Scottish referendum before 2020.
Its amazing just how many believe salmons lies,
Sep 23rd, 2014 - 12:19 am - Link - Report abuse 0they truly believe that the SNP ran an honourable and honest campaign,
and all the rest were bad guys,
either you accept the result or you don't,?
203
Sep 23rd, 2014 - 12:51 am - Link - Report abuse 0Nice to see you alive and kicking Mr. Think....Anglotino was trying to convince me you were dead....I was very sad......;-(
206
Now, now...be fair Skip...he was up against the dastardly information gleaning manipulative A_Voice....that did his utmost best to ignore the full date of birth apparent in the driver no....
...probably shouldn't have told me his place of birth previously.....
...ho hum his secret is safe with me......I won't tell.....;-))))
Convince?
Sep 23rd, 2014 - 01:40 am - Link - Report abuse 0Quite a strong impression I seem to have made.
Based on all pertinent facts (age, infirmity and the Argentinean health care system) I made a valid assumption and notified you of that. I even used the word “assumed”.
But if my assumptions can become your convictions.... well better left unsaid.
As for manipulating a not so bright poster on here... hardly worth gloating over considering.
The Union Flag
Sep 23rd, 2014 - 11:00 am - Link - Report abuse 0there is no legal or moral reason why the flag has to change.
Whether the Union Flag is changed or not it won't affect the Australian flag.
Sep 23rd, 2014 - 11:36 am - Link - Report abuse 0New Zealand is already looking to have a referendum on their flag next year. And Fiji is about to change theirs.
At this rate it will leave only Australia and Tuvalu with defaced blue ensigns. Tuvalu changed their flag and then reverted back again.
However as much as I love the Aussie flag I'd support a change to a simple Southern Cross flag. Remove the Union Flag and Federation Star and just centre the Southern Cross.
It would be the only national flag that consits solely of a constellation.
We can do that and it still won't make a republic any more popular.
Think has been quite absent on any articles about Argentina's immanent collapse or the Corrupted Ks.
Sep 23rd, 2014 - 04:18 pm - Link - Report abuse 016/1 is right around the corner, it used to be said the Peso would be 20/1 by the eoy.
That may prove to be optimistic.
Perhaps he aint in Argentina, and never was...
Sep 23rd, 2014 - 06:29 pm - Link - Report abuse 0...I know where he aint Briton.....Scotland...
Sep 23rd, 2014 - 06:32 pm - Link - Report abuse 0...I Think....;-)))
we bet he aint that far away...lol
Sep 23rd, 2014 - 06:40 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Anglo, you assume the royals would choose to rule in the situation of a majority rejecting them. Thats undignified and I don't think they would, Charles being a democrat.
Sep 23rd, 2014 - 07:24 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Ive heard of republicanism being at its lowest for 20 years, however the tide is not on the royalty's side. The patient is at his best for 20 years - he survived a referendum in 1999 where a 5% difference would have seen the monarchy's demise.
The overall trend goes in one direction on this topic, sure it fluctuates up and down year on year, but the destination of a republican majority is an inevitability.
This is even more so the case when the decades long tradition of the queen will end.
Regarding a healthy mistrust of politicians, it shouldn't be a major hurdle when the powers being passed will be mostly those ceremonial duties of the governor general.
Better to have a chosen Australian for such a job title, rather than a random individual who happened to be born into a title and who lives 10s of thousands of kilometers away.
King Charles and Queen Camilla of Australia.
1999 :45/55
(212) Voice
Sep 23rd, 2014 - 08:39 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Alive and kicking I am indeed, Mr. Voice...
Interesting “Pertinent Facts” Mr. Anglolatino uses to reach his“Valid Assumptions” about yours truly...:
1) Age.... How does Skip knows the age of this old man...?
2) Infirmity... How does Skip know the infirmities of this old frail man...?
3) Argentinean health care system... How does Skip know about this old frail Argentinean utilisation of aforementioned system...?
Hmmmmmmmmmmm.....
I'll better blur my tablet's webcam with some Scotch(tape;-)))
220 Mendocinovino
Sep 23rd, 2014 - 08:49 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“
Regarding a healthy mistrust of politicians, it shouldn't be a major hurdle when the powers being passed will be mostly those ceremonial duties of the governor general.
Better to have a chosen Australian for such a job title, rather than a random individual who happened to be born into a title and who lives 10s of thousands of kilometers away”
Dimwit.
If Australia is anything like Canada, they already have an Australian citizen as a Governor General AND they have a Monarch.
15.65/1 eod.
Sep 23rd, 2014 - 09:28 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I hope for your sake you don't have to use a Clinic or Hospital in Argentina. They don't have gauze, gloves or syringes. They're reusing syringes FTLOG.
With the price of Soy it doesn't look like they'll be restocking any time soon.
@221 Really Think your icthyology knowledge as a fisherman is is slipping.
Sep 23rd, 2014 - 09:38 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Vendace? the rarest of English fishes is under threat of extinction in two lakes in Cumbria.
Powan. Under threat in two Scots lochs, one of which is Loch Eck
Eck. Eck?
Havent I Heard that nick name before?
224
Sep 23rd, 2014 - 10:32 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Small world...Loch Eck is my water supply....I drink it every day.....
...especially nice with a tea bag....
...found this clip on Youtube.
..I recognise the location.... filmed from Jubilee Point....
Never knew about the Powan...I only know about Salmon with a net up Glen Massan...some might call it poaching.....
I call it free Salmon....
Eck is a corruption of uisge (pronounced Ouushk ) meaning water same as Esk as in Eskdale and Esk Valley in England...in case anyone wanted to know....
A free supply of uisge bhatha (whisky) in your wáter supply? No wonder it goes well with your tea bags.
Sep 23rd, 2014 - 10:59 pm - Link - Report abuse 0If Id known that Id probabably have voted yes as well if I had a vote provided the Fat Man didnt get stuck in the pipe.
All powan to the people says Kim Jock Eck
...It's not Campbeltown Loch.....
Sep 23rd, 2014 - 11:30 pm - Link - Report abuse 0http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vb_P46gNf_k
...probably should have included the clip of Loch Eck I was referring to....the odd dead sheep adds flavour...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vb_P46gNf_k
222 - the reference was to the queen, not the governor general.
Sep 24th, 2014 - 12:19 am - Link - Report abuse 0Though yes, you can refer to the majestic one as an Aussie citizen too.
Technically she is. On paper, along with however many dozen or so secondary 'oh yeah them too' countries. However, I think we all know in truth and practicality she's really just an Englishwoman with a bunch of titles.
the envy of you argies show,
Sep 24th, 2014 - 12:30 am - Link - Report abuse 0you cant breat the brits on the ground or in the air, you lost the bloody war and still cant win the peace,
so you do what all losers do, pick on the women children and the unarmed,
so now you pick on the queen,
cowards................................
Oh Vestige, the more your reply the more your lack of knowledge about my country shows.
Sep 24th, 2014 - 12:32 am - Link - Report abuse 0“you assume the royals would choose to rule in the situation of a majority rejecting them.”
They don't have a choice. Abdication is a parliamentary process and would still not change us into a republic. An attempt to abdicate from one Commonwealth Realm would only create a constitutional crisis-even in the UK. They can't quit unless we let them.
“Ive heard of republicanism being at its lowest for 20 years, however the tide is not on the royalty's side.”
Yes however with the young now less republican, time is not on the republic's side. Indeed, there has been comment by newspapers and politicians for 150 years that a republic is INEVITABLE and yet the youngest voters in the country don't want it. 2014 and still not a republic.
“The patient is at his best for 20 years - he survived a referendum in 1999 where a 5% difference would have seen the monarchy's demise.”
5% wouldn't have seen anything change. A uniform 5% across the country would have had the same result. You just cannot get your head around a double majority now can you.
“The overall trend goes in one direction on this topic”
No it doesn't.
“the destination of a republican majority is an inevitability.”
No it isn't.
“This is even more so the case when the decades long tradition of the queen will end.”
No it won't.
“Regarding a healthy mistrust of politicians, it shouldn't be a major hurdle when the powers being passed will be mostly those ceremonial duties of the governor general.”
Ceremonial? GOD you really don't know anything about our consitutional framework do you.
“Better to have a chosen Australian for such a job title, rather than a random individual who happened to be born into a title and who lives 10s of thousands of kilometers away.”
Why? That random individual can't do much without our permission.
“King Charles and Queen Camilla of Australia.”
King Charles and Princess Consort Camilla of Australia.
just because people like them don't want or like the queen, they threaten and abuse those what do,
Sep 24th, 2014 - 12:38 am - Link - Report abuse 0either do as they say, or else, [ remind us of someone.] 228
@ Is that bloated sheep a dead Eck?
Sep 24th, 2014 - 01:04 am - Link - Report abuse 0Briton
Sep 24th, 2014 - 01:44 am - Link - Report abuse 0Vestige is indicative of many republicans in Australia.
They want to tear down the current system and replace it with something else but can't fully articulate what else nor a reasonable argument for change.
They fail to realise that the Governor General is given powers as head of state by our constitution AS WELL as being the Crown's representative.
The systems works. We were the first country created by a vote and we have created one of the world's most prosperous and stable country. And we have extremely boring politics - as it should be.
228 last vestige
Sep 24th, 2014 - 08:31 am - Link - Report abuse 0“Technically she is. On paper, along with however many dozen or so secondary 'oh yeah them too' countries. However, I think we all know in truth ............blah blah blah”
Gee, you know a lot - not!
233 Anglotino
Sep 24th, 2014 - 10:58 am - Link - Report abuse 0I agree, people like him demand you do thing their way, but refuses to do thing the way of the majority,
this seems to be spreading nowadays,
our way or no way, and sod democracy.
one would suggest Vestige either live with it or live in a land of his dreams like Iran perhaps.
Is Iran a republic ?
Sep 24th, 2014 - 03:40 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Is France a republic? Is Germany a republic? Is the USA a republic?
Sep 24th, 2014 - 05:10 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Are republics gradually replacing monarchies globally over many decades?
234 - Gee, you kn .... blah blah blah.
233 -
“They can't quit unless we let them.” - lol
No only can they (are you going to send them a 50 aus dollar fine) and would they, but once the majority is lost, thats it, they can call themselves galactic emperors if they choose, in reality its over. The public is lost.
Subsections on paperwork can't help at that point.
Democracy is the keystone, if Charlie was seen to ignore the majority that majority would grow in bounds overnight. No-one wanting to be ruled by an autocrat. No-one in a civilized nation having to accept it.
The system doesn't work, it IS broken, you dont elect your head of state, and he/she lives on the other side of the globe, popping by for a holiday/party once in a blue moon on your dollar.
This person did nothing to earn the position, a national message to the young of entitlement and reward without work.
Dont aspire to lead your own country unless you are 100% white and Anglican.
99 referendum was far from boring, A PM at the time previously saying she thinks Aus should be a republic/i.e change the constitution is not boring.
You'll be seeing a republic of Australia well within your natural lifespan.
237. Clearly their system has worked, why on earth would they change something that works?
Sep 24th, 2014 - 07:31 pm - Link - Report abuse 0A better bet is China collapsing in the next decade.
238 -
Sep 24th, 2014 - 09:04 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Success isn't a result of the constitution alone. If that was the case make a place a monarchy and hey presto...great success.
Take away Norway's royals and suddenly they're broke...nope.
Aus's success was not dependent on having a monarch.
Its success shall continue, even without an old lady on a chair in England.
I'll take that bet.
@238.
Sep 24th, 2014 - 09:10 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Almost half of Scots have had enough of being screwed over by the Westminster government.
This is why we were, and indeed still are pushing for control of our own country.
It's not working for Scotland. But the majority of people living there (notice I did not say Scots) have been scared in to believing the UK is good for Scotland, - Which of course it is not.
We don't hate anybody, we just want out.
240. OMG give it a rest. You lost buck up and move on. Quit whining cause nobody cares.
Sep 24th, 2014 - 10:44 pm - Link - Report abuse 0238. Maybe you didn't understand what I said, there's no reason to change anything because the system works. Nobody would go through a huge governmental upheaval just for the sake of change.
We...?
Sep 24th, 2014 - 10:46 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Last time I checked it was a democracy....
...and last time I checked the majority didn't want out....
...it might be a good idea at this point to remind folks of the part timer that wasn't even here to vote....a postal voter....
...I never forget what people have said......
@ 240 EscoSes 45 Doido
Sep 24th, 2014 - 10:50 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I have made no secret that during the campaign I have gone from ambivalent to being really disappointed that the YES vote failed so abysmally.
I want you disaffected bunch GONE, my tax element that I pay toward your £1,600 per year for each man, woman and child under the Barnett formula GONE, and then we will see how the SNP manage.
Still, I have a consolation prize: it looks like you are getting the Hag as your new whatever you are going to call her. It seems she will be swept into the ‘top’ job without a run-off vote, why don’t you put your money where your mouth is and go back to Scotland and show them how to do it?
Your comment about being screwed over by Westminster is frankly laughable but I suspect your Brazilian wife has far more sense than allow you to drag her over to Scotland: SHE’S not stupid.
243
Sep 24th, 2014 - 11:01 pm - Link - Report abuse 0What you pay in tax from whatever pension you have is negligible....
...think of it as paying for the Falklands security...or the right to come slinking back if one of you snuffs it....
...which is almost a certainty.....
@243.
Sep 25th, 2014 - 12:49 am - Link - Report abuse 0Wow that's a whole lot of hate directed personally at me. And here was me thinking you were an alright guy too.
YES failed abysmally you say? 55-45%?
Not sure you understand what abysmal means.
Oh, and the £1600 quid?
Scotland pays for every single penny of that and a whole lot more in revenue. (No not just oil either)
Thanks Chris for the display of utter blind, misinformed prejudice and hatred most English have for us Scots.
People, - this attitude is one of the reasons 1.6 million YES voters want away from the rUK.
Keep an eye on goings on North of the border, it's going to be interesting.
245 Excuses
Sep 25th, 2014 - 01:34 am - Link - Report abuse 0“Thanks Chris for the display of utter blind, misinformed prejudice and hatred most English have for us Scots.”
“Most English... ?”
Just how do you know that?
Do YOU not get along with “most English”, is that it?
Gee, I wonder why?
we wise people, be wise,
Sep 25th, 2014 - 06:21 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Wales
Ireland
Scotland
England.
move on.
241 - yes they would.
Sep 25th, 2014 - 09:50 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Of all articles to post such a comment on - Scotland very nearly just did.
Plus there are many reasons in Aus's case, and it will happen.
248 Vestige
Sep 25th, 2014 - 10:50 pm - Link - Report abuse 0When?? 25 years??
Should we start counting now?
You sound just like Hepatia
@ 245 EscoSes 45 Doido
Sep 26th, 2014 - 12:46 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“And here was me thinking you were an alright guy too.”
I used to think that about you until your vainglorious attempt to convince us of your “Scottishness” by voting yes from Brazil! Hence my comment regarding going back to Scotland and putting your mouth where your foot is (think about that one).
“Not sure you understand what abysmal means.” It means to fail utterly which the SNP did.
You clearly do not grasp the reality of voting. Just to get 51% of the vote as of the voting day (not know because things have changed) your bunch need to convert 60% of the marginal no voters into yes voters: good luck on that.
But we will see what The Hag makes of it: a complete mess is my judgement considering Salmond “taught her everything she knows about independence”. So good luck with her as well.
FYI even Joel Barnett the dyed in the wool Labour idiot who is “credited” with the Barnett formula which gives the money to every man, woman and child in Scotland (the £1,600), wants it gone.
“Keep an eye on goings on North of the border, it's going to be interesting.”
You must have damn good eyesight if you think the future is going to be anything other than another 20 years of drunken Scots dead beats howling to the sound of bagpipes while they drink themselves into despair.
@ 244 Voice
Ha, ha, ha, ha. Yeah, you are spot on as usual!
What a plonker.
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