MercoPress. South Atlantic News Agency
Spain's constitutional court to decide on Catalonia's referendum announcement
Catalonia's president on Saturday formally called a referendum to decide whether Spain's richest region should be independent, defying Madrid which vowed to block the move. Shortly after Artur Mas set the vote for November 9, the Spanish government said the referendum would not take place because it was “unconstitutional”. Read full article
Comments
Disclaimer & comment rulesAnd here is a perfect example of EU democracy as Spain looks down the barrel of another civil war if it is not careful.
Sep 29th, 2014 - 08:50 am - Link - Report abuse 0Poor Spain, this will end in a mess which they thoroughly deserve. At least their attention will be turned away from Gibraltar.
I don't think fracturing states into smaller entities is neccessarily a good thing - no more so than trying to merge them into a superstate.
Sep 29th, 2014 - 09:04 am - Link - Report abuse 0They seem to work best through evolution rather than revolution.
It isn't something that will go away.
Sep 29th, 2014 - 09:05 am - Link - Report abuse 0Just three steps from independence and freedom.
Sep 29th, 2014 - 09:10 am - Link - Report abuse 0Go for it Catalonia!
The one and only thing I give Cameron credit for is the way he told the Scots, if that's what you want, go ahead, we will carry on without you but you better find another currency to spend cos you're not having the pound.
Sep 29th, 2014 - 09:18 am - Link - Report abuse 0Rajoy is in a slightly different position as Spain does not have its own currency to barter and from what I've heard, Catalonia makes all the money.
From what I have seen, Catalonia receives half the money from the Spanish Government than it gives-whereas Scotland per head get a good deal out of the UK.
Sep 29th, 2014 - 09:29 am - Link - Report abuse 0@5
“Rajoy is in a slightly different position as Spain does not have its own currency to barter and from what I've heard, Catalonia makes all the money.”
Correct, Catalonia holds the cards.
“ that no one “was above the national will of the Spanish people”.
Referral to this type of bullshit rhetoric shows the Spanish are running scared.
Spain needs to say HOW Catalonia would benefit by staying part of Spain, and how the Spanish love Catalonia. What they are actually saying is-there is no good reason, economic or other to remain part of Spain,so because without you, Spain is economically f1cked, we are not going to allow you to have a choice, therefore @1
”And here is a perfect example of EU democracy as Spain looks down the barrel of another civil war if it is not careful.
Poor Spain, this will end in a mess which they thoroughly deserve.”
Well done Catalonia, a state which supports Gibraltar and has banned Bullfighting-therefore the part of Spain that is not sliding backwards into the past, (ironically like their daughter, Argentina).
I take it there are polls on what the outcome is likely to be, I have yet to read any.
Sep 29th, 2014 - 09:34 am - Link - Report abuse 0Anyone know what the figures are?
@2. Have you researched the subject and history of Catalonia? You can read the history at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Catalonia
Sep 29th, 2014 - 10:13 am - Link - Report abuse 0You may need to go back as far as the 9th century. Recognise the reality of the times. Even if you go on as far as the 15th century. These things happened when 'the people' weren't asked and didn't know. At any time in that period how long would it have taken for the people to find out? Weeks? Months? And would they have had the political acumen to see what might happen? And no-one would ask them anyway. States were essentially the private property of their rulers.
Now, Catalonians are undoubtedly “a people”. Do they not have their own language? Their own customs? Their own flag? By what 'right' does Spain act in the imperialist, colonialist manner that it does? Catalonia is undoubtedly an occupied territory. So it's not really “fracturing a state into smaller entities”. It's restoring freedom to a people. As Britworker has suggested, some attention should be paid to the different ways that scotland was and Catalonia is treated. In the UK the response was that 300 years had passed after scotland voluntarily decided to join the Union. The scots might have changed their minds. In Catalonia, between 1,200 and 500 years have passed since Catalonia was forced into subjugation. How do you differentiate between evolution and revolution? Spain is operating an imperialist policy. Isn't freedom an evolution? Spain goes to the Constitutional Court. Who wrote the constitution? Did Catalonia EVER get an opportunity to require that secession always had to be an option? Spain wrote the constitution and imposed it. Now it intends that its puppet court 'enforce' its wishes. If Spain is such a wonderful state to belong to, will the people of Catalonia not choose to remain part of Spain? And Spanish governments are doing so well. How could they be improved upon? I would have thought that would be pretty easy! Free Catalonia!
Spain encouraged the Scots to 'break free' of the UK but that is a case of 'do as I say, not as I do, as far as Catalonia.
Sep 29th, 2014 - 11:36 am - Link - Report abuse 0The reasons are as stated above and it is obvious that Pout Mouth (where do MP get these pictures) is doing as she is told by Rajoy and not using the pretty head she has on her shoulders.
Spain is in a difficult position, they rob Catalonia blind whereas it is the reverse with Scotland: Catalonia would have very few problems by the look of it were they to declare independence other than a possible civil war: again.
Rajoy and co. need to have a rethink pretty soon before they let things get out of hand.
I wonder if Camoron will 'do a Rajoy' and support Catalonia? Doesn't have the balls though does he.
*1 The only MESS is you head, mate!! go and see a shrink befire it gets worse....
Sep 29th, 2014 - 12:56 pm - Link - Report abuse 0*9 - Spain encouraged the Scots to break free--
WHERE?? WHEN?? DID THE SPANISH GOVERNMENT ENCOURAGE
SCOTS TO BE FREE??!! YOU SIR, ARE A LIAR, CYNICAL,INTOLERANT, TROUBLE MAKER, A SCUM BAG IF EVER THERE WAS ONE!! AND BELIEVE ME, CAMERON HAS MORE BALLS THAN YOU WILL EVER HAVE IN YOUR SHITTY LONG LIFE!!
Remarkable as I have described myself as a Chilean Mestizo. My bloodline is Scot-Catalan with a few other European additives. I've spent brief periods of my personal and business related life in Spain. Mostly in Spain, but also the regions.
Sep 29th, 2014 - 01:29 pm - Link - Report abuse 0My observations:
Madrid pre-2009 was incredible, but today suffers greatly. The other areas are far worse. Even here in Chile we see an influx of well trained and educated Spaniards looking for a future.
People from Galicia are very intelligent and hard working.
Catalans, not only have a different language, but also a strong dislike for the government in Madrid. They also produce the best wine in Spain. Rajoy is and a**hole.
I am in Costa Blanca this week.
Sep 29th, 2014 - 04:40 pm - Link - Report abuse 0In casual conversation I am trying to do
some sentiment analysis.
Responses seem to be divided on the issue.
However, my gut feeling is that up in the Catalonia region
that independence is much more important than it was
to the Scots .... we shall see.
I am considering relocating to Spain from the USSA
so I have a special interest in this referendum and its' consequences.
As I have attempted before, (perhaps foolishly (!)), to explain to some posters here...
Sep 29th, 2014 - 06:39 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Laws only work by 'Social Contract' and the consent of the people. If a large sector of society feel that a certain law is outside of their consent, they will ignore/protest/change it or even revolt against it.
In a true democracy the government is the servant of the will of the people.
Ok, we rarely see this enacted in its truest ideological concept, but many countries strive for this ideal.
If a government continously opposes the will of the people it becomes totalitarian.
So it won't matter what is, and isn't, constitutional in Spain if a huge number of people in a particular region do not support it.
Will Rajoy attempt to imprison 2 million people? Would that help his cause, or theirs?
Oh well, at least they will be to busy to bother harrassing the peaceful citizens of Gibraltar, one hopes.
Perhaps if the Spanish had left Gibraltar alone,
Sep 29th, 2014 - 06:51 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Did not start this [your mine] attitude things may have not stirred in Catalonia,
Perhaps if the Spanish had not declared their love for CFK and her dictorial claim over the Falklands whilst keeping shum over her own enclaves, that Catalonia would not have the desire of the British bits and demanded independence,
Perhaps if the Spanish had just kept quiet and respected their neighbours and showed due respect, the likes of Catalonia would not distances themselves from Spain.
Perhaps Spain has just got to cocky for its own boots,
And Catalonia has had enough of their arrogances and dictorial attitude to the Catalonians.
Perhaps for Spain, this is one territory to far..
But hey its only my opinion not worth much,
Still,
Every little helps..
.
@ 10 spainisharsehole
Sep 29th, 2014 - 07:05 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Gobby little troublemaker as usual.
Poor English as usual.
Try this:
“Spain has no intention of interfering in Scotland’s push for independence and is willing to consider an eventual Scottish application to join the EU AS A SEPARATE STATE, foreign minister García Margallo (Gollum 2) said”
http://en.mercopress.com/2014/02/05/spain-nervous-with-catalonia-says-it-will-not-interfere-with-scotland-s-referendum
So, according to you “willing to consider an eventual Scottish application to join the EU AS A SEPARATE STATE is not encouraging the Scots to break free, eh, numbnut?
What if Hague had said similar words about Catalonia, I bet your ranting would be even more farcical than those today.
In future engage that peanut sized brain of yours before you confirm, yet again, what a complete and utter moron you are, lacking any graces whatsoever.
The attitude of the Spanish government towards Gibraltar is woefully pathetic and deserves punishment.
Sep 29th, 2014 - 07:09 pm - Link - Report abuse 0As to Catalonia - this IS clearly an internal matter and no legal right to hold a referendum on patrician exists.
@14
Sep 29th, 2014 - 09:16 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I feel you have a very valid opinion.
Just saying, like.
:)
i know it is hard for you islanders to understand it, because you don´t know what a constitution is, but their constitution does not allow a referendum for the independence of catalonia.
Sep 29th, 2014 - 09:54 pm - Link - Report abuse 0got it now?
end of story.
Here is Paul teaching us about constitutions.
Sep 29th, 2014 - 11:07 pm - Link - Report abuse 0How many military dictatorships has Argentina had in the past 100 years? How many times has it rewritten its constitution?
17@
Sep 29th, 2014 - 11:39 pm - Link - Report abuse 0thank you,
just saying like..lol
tonight on the sky news it stated that Spain has blocked the referendum until
Catalonia justifies the move,
no doubt we will find out more in the days to come..
*15 Read the last paragraph:
Sep 29th, 2014 - 11:50 pm - Link - Report abuse 0A state born through a unilateral declaration of independent would have no
international recognition whatsoever.It would be isolatd in the concet of
nations...
Spain has not recognised an independent Kosovo as yet!! and you expect it
to recognise Scotland!!!COME ON!! MATE!! SMELL THE ROSES NOT
YOUR ARSE...
108 UN members recognised Kosovo's unilateral Declaration of Independence. 54%. And 23 out of 28 EU members.
Sep 30th, 2014 - 02:38 am - Link - Report abuse 0So much for “no international recognition whatsoever”.
Spain hasn't recognised Kosovo, along with others, solely because it has a secessionist movement. Of course countries that are scared of losing parts of themselves aren't going to recognise it. Spain is in the illustrious company of Iran, India, Russia and China; and as usual on the wrong side of history.
Come on mate, stop talking OUT of your arse.
Madrid isn't solving the problem, just making it worse. You would have to be a total idiot to think that Madrid will stop this process without making MAJOR changes to how Spain is set up.
Either way, Spain changes.
@ 21 spanisharseholee
Sep 30th, 2014 - 11:38 am - Link - Report abuse 0I refer you to the reply @ 22. Says it all for me.
*22 Don´t talk so much about teh constitution of other people WHEN YOUR OWN CONSTITUTION reflects Australia´s history of white settlement, but fails to mention the much longer occupation of the continents ABORIGINAL PEOPLE. it
Sep 30th, 2014 - 12:51 pm - Link - Report abuse 0is as their history does not matter, and it is part of the NATIONS HISTORY,....
START WITH YOUR CONSTITUTION BEFORE YOU MEDDLE IN OTHER FOREIGN CONSTITUTIONS...
@24
Sep 30th, 2014 - 04:52 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Could you repost in English without shouting.
At the end of the day,
Sep 30th, 2014 - 06:51 pm - Link - Report abuse 0the people will decide their own fate.
@21/24
Sep 30th, 2014 - 08:28 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Spain doesn't need to 'recognise' Scotland, as Scotland is part of The UNITED Kingdom of Great Britain & Northern Ireland.
As chosen by the Scottish in a free and fair Referendum.
Does Spain not recognise the UK?
Also, the UK does not have a 'Constitution' as such.
I know this is difficult for you to comprehend, but unlike many other nations, the UK has no single constitutional document.
It is a Constitutional Monarchy and the bedrock of the British constitution has traditionally been the doctrine of parliamentary sovereignty, according to which the statutes passed by Parliament are the UK's supreme and final source of law.
It follows that Parliament can change the constitution simply by passing new Acts of Parliament.
So the Monarchy is a steady, stable figurehead and the people can change their own 'consitution'.
This is why Westminster is known as 'The Mother of All Parliaments'.
..but I expect that is all too much for you to understand, you just prefer emasculated shouting from the side-lines...
Let the Catalans chose their own destiny. They certainly don't your 'help'...
Bwaahhhaahahaha!!
I love it when aussiesunshinee gets upset and tries to drag down Australia.
Sep 30th, 2014 - 09:20 pm - Link - Report abuse 0And yet he loves and admires ku country so much he uses it in his name.
Probably why we are debating changing our constitution to reflect our Aboriginal heritage. Pity Madrid won't change their constitution to reflect the fact they subjugated people in the past.
People who would now like to leave the glorious Spanish Kingdom and go it alone.
Idiot hypocrites these trolls. Especially when concerning
Sep 30th, 2014 - 10:05 pm - Link - Report abuse 0self determination
rule of law
contractual debt obligations
international norms
any sense of responsibility
'Nuff said.
Why do they shout,
Oct 01st, 2014 - 12:27 am - Link - Report abuse 0do these argies not know that we cannot here them..lol
28 LOL I love it when I hit you in the face with a real fact which you can´t defend.
Oct 01st, 2014 - 10:42 am - Link - Report abuse 02014 and you are still thinking IF YOU WILL RECOGNISE THE ABORIGINAL
PEOPLE IN THE AUSTRALIAN CONSTITUTION. by the way read the ammendments to the 1967 constitution...YOU WILL BE SHOCKED!!! SHAME! SHAME! SHAME! SHAME!. AND HERE YOU ARE PREACHING OTHERS ABOUT THEIR CONSTITUTIONS...WANKER!! LOL
This CONSTITUTION lark,
Oct 01st, 2014 - 11:03 am - Link - Report abuse 0should not then, every country in the world mention and protect all indigenous peoples who were on the land first,
does then, purely out of interest Spain and Argentina have the original peoples in their constitution.
just an ancient thought..
@31 spanishsunshinee,
Oct 01st, 2014 - 11:18 am - Link - Report abuse 0Sit down & stop shouting.
You are a raving ratbag mate.
Your part of Spain going to get even poorer when Catalonia gets independence, is it?
Sad.
*33 KISS MY ARSE, SWEETHEART!! lol
Oct 01st, 2014 - 11:37 am - Link - Report abuse 0@34
Oct 01st, 2014 - 01:11 pm - Link - Report abuse 0temper temper sussi
@34 spanishsunshinee,
Oct 01st, 2014 - 01:15 pm - Link - Report abuse 0l don't think that anyone would be game to go anywhere near your arse.
We don't know where it has been.
l don't even want to think about it.
But seriously, spaniard-who-has-lived-in-melbourne, is your part of Spain about to become even poorer when your cash register, er, l mean Catalonia leaves?
Lo siento muchisimo.
You need a bex, a cup of tea & a good lie down.
Poor Sunshine.
Oct 01st, 2014 - 02:44 pm - Link - Report abuse 0He loves Australia so much he pretends to be one.
But he ain't so the closest he can come is his username.
Its time we thinks that aussiesunshinee,,,,
Oct 01st, 2014 - 06:34 pm - Link - Report abuse 0should be sent to Coventry...
and quicker the better.
@38
Oct 01st, 2014 - 07:32 pm - Link - Report abuse 0In the good old empire days we could have sent her to Australia.
Ignore fake aussiesunshine.
Oct 01st, 2014 - 08:58 pm - Link - Report abuse 0so now not only do you discriminate Aboriginals in the constitution but NOW YOU WANT TO PUT MUSLIM WOMEN WITH BURKAS WHO VISIT THE AUSTRALIAN PARLIAMENT......BEHIND BULLET PROOF WINDOWS...F...K
Oct 02nd, 2014 - 10:56 am - Link - Report abuse 0ME DEAD!! WHAT´S NEXT????
*40 KISS MY ARSE SWEET HEART!!
now, now sunshine - your shouting again.
Oct 02nd, 2014 - 08:22 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Well it looks like I am wasting my time with my comments @13 & @27.
Oct 02nd, 2014 - 08:36 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I have had no reasoned response. Perhaps I expected too much from those that only wish to rant and rave?
On another note, it would seem that the people of Hong Kong are missing the British, especially the rule of law and real democracy.
Just sayin'...
Leiard, of course he is shouting. Because that is eventually how all incompetents try to enforce their weak arguments. By shouting down. Sunshine now can fully ignore the constitutional crisis inn Spain by trying to highlight the problems in my country.
Oct 02nd, 2014 - 09:45 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Australia is not in danger of splitting. Australia is richer, more prosperous, more democratic, safer, more stable, happier, more powerful and better governed than Spain. All sunshine does is allow me a platform to show how good Australia is and how bad Spain is.
That is be ause as a Spaniard, he has learnt the art of deflection from his government. Anything to discuss and deal with a problem in a mature and calm way. There's a reason he couldn't hack it in Australia.
So now I will copy my reply to his post which itself was already posted elsewhere.
What is next?
Australia is an older democracy than any Spanish speaking country in the WORLD!
That's because we always challenge ourselves to change. Are burqas compatible with our society? This is a question that is being discussed.
Sunshine while you use Aussie in your name, you'll never make my country look bad.
*44 I love it when somebody says my country is more this....more that....
Oct 03rd, 2014 - 01:27 am - Link - Report abuse 0but unfortunately you did not not post your sources: I have
* wikipedia and/ nationmaster/country info compare australia and spain.
SAFER:
VIOLENT CRIMES PER MILLIO
AUSTRALIA SPAIN
15 10.4
MURDER WITH SHOTGUN
3 2.3
MURDERS PER ONE THOUSAND
1.5 1.4
RAPES
25.6 3.4
SUICIDES PER ONE THOUSAND
15.3 11.8
SPAIN WINS
HAPPIER PEOPLE
SUICIDES PER ONE MILLION
AUSTALIA SPAIN
15.3 11.8
SPAIN WINS
POWERFUL (MILITARY
AUSTRALIA SPAIN
58000 ACTIVE 123.300 ACTIVE
22000 RESERVES 16200 RESERVES
SPAIN WINS
GDP LISTING IN WORLD LIST
AUSTRALIA SPAIN
11 12
considering that Australia has 7.692.024 squared km and is rich in
primary resources such as urunium.gas.iron sheep ,cattle etc
and Spain has only 504.000 square km and has to import most of its
primary resources it has done well to be listed 12.
AUSTRALIA WINS
spain 3 ozz 1
@ 45 spanisharseholee
Oct 03rd, 2014 - 12:06 pm - Link - Report abuse 0So what if Spain has more active 'soldiers', you have forgotten that whereas the Ozzies LOVE a brawl the Spanish run-away, bunch of cowards.
Even the laugh-a-minute policia in their funny hats at Gib need a 0.50 cal BMG to harass water skiers.
No, forget it, they will never man up to beat any 'army' in fact I reckon the Salvation Army would kick the crap out of them.
Let me clear the figures.
Oct 03rd, 2014 - 12:25 pm - Link - Report abuse 0(violent crimes per million)
Australia 15/...spain 10.4
(murder with fire arms)
australia 3...spain 2.3
(rape)
australia 28.6....spain 3.4
(murder rate)
australia 1.3....spain o.9
SPAIN BEING A SAFER COUNTRY
which country is happier??
(suicides)
australia 15.3.....spain 11.8
SPAIN IS A HAPPIER COUNTRY TO LIVE IN
I have already mentioned that spain wins in power and is very close to the
Gdp of Australia.
sources wikipedia and nationmaster.
Bla bla bla
Oct 03rd, 2014 - 12:59 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@47 spanishsunshinee,
Oct 03rd, 2014 - 08:53 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Sounds like you miss Australia mate.
Why did you leave?
No one here seems very interested in your Spanish Paradise, (soon to be minus Catalonia).
what a bunch of pussies!! when they lose the arguement they talk bullshit!!
Oct 04th, 2014 - 05:46 pm - Link - Report abuse 0bunch of losers!! LOL LOL LOL LOL
Spanish fighter jets 'illegally invade' British airspace over Gibraltar – report
Oct 05th, 2014 - 07:19 pm - Link - Report abuse 0http://www.chronicle.gi/headlines_details.php?id=34734
Spanish fighter jets illegally invade British airspace over Gibraltar
SPANISH fighter jets illegally entered UK airspace to fly “across the bows” of a British airliner in a “reckless and dangerous” stunt over Gibraltar
Spain refuses to let British military jets fly over Spanish airspace on the way to Gibraltar even though they are partners in Nato, yet they think it’s fine to enter British airspace illegally and potentially distract an airliner as it is trying to safely land on the Rock.
“It’s time that the British Government sent the Spanish Ambassador packing back to Madrid
We are fed up with the bullying and intimidation from Spain, and it’s time we showed we are no longer prepared to put up with it
http://www.chronicle.gi/headlines_details.php?id=34734
British response.
Last night a Foreign Office spokesman said: “We are aware of the incident on September 19. We are reassured that there was no risk to safety caused by the activity of the jets.
“We are continuing to examine the incident to ascertain whether it was within the lawful right of passage.”
Pathetic , pathetic , pathetic..
.
The Hong Kong situation is interesting.
Oct 05th, 2014 - 09:36 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Looks like they miss the British.
--------
Maybe the Catalans want to emulate those British Scots and decide on their own future.
Madrid is scared of losing its cash cow.
Let the people decide!
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