MercoPress. South Atlantic News Agency
Special Master Pollack to meet with Argentina's and holdout lawyers next week
A United States court-appointed mediator said on Friday he would hold a meeting next week between lawyers for Argentina and 'holdout' creditors suing the country in a longstanding dispute over defaulted debt. Read full article
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Disclaimer & comment rules”The meeting is expected to focus on how settlement talks should proceed in January after the expiration of a (RUFO) bond clause...”
Oct 11th, 2014 - 04:27 am - Link - Report abuse 0Isn't it the reason why Argentina asked Judge Griesa for a stay of his ruling in the first place?
Still, Argentina should not pay the vultures much more than it paid the exchange bondholders, even if a settlement takes place in January. This type of rapacious schemes must not be rewarded.
May be (hopefully), from the 1. of January 2015 (expire of the RUFO clause) we will see another President Kirchner and Economy Minister Kicillof.
Oct 11th, 2014 - 05:22 am - Link - Report abuse 0It would be a historic event and come in the historic books, if President Kirchner after 13 years finally finished this HORROR Default with an amicable agreement with the holdouts.
An agreement with the Holdouts would be a win-win situation for everybody!
For Argentina, for the Holdouts and also for the exchange bondholders, whose bonds rates would also be considerably increased.
A completed final agreement with the Holdouts would improve Argentina's ratings, initiate a firework of investments and enable also cheaper credits for argentine companies.
Also seizure risks and a technical Default would be immediately averted. Argentina could immediately return to the capital market and thus Argentina could refinance the payments to the holdouts, without using reserves.
HOW COULD BE THE CONDITIONS FOR THE REPAYMENT?
Argentina owes to today about 230% to the Holdouts (since 2002
Argentina had not repaid a cent to the holdouts)
- after the end of RUFO clause Argentina should repay in CASH 100% of the nominal value of the defaulted bonds, which became due before 2015.
- For the accrued interest between 2002-2015 (until now about 130%), Argentina would emit new bonds with a maturity of 5-7 years.
@1: are you member of the ck robberment gang?
Oct 11th, 2014 - 08:19 am - Link - Report abuse 0or do you like to be robbed by a criminal robberment gang?
not me! they have the money to pay their outstanding debts and they HAVE to pay!
I am a private creditor like thousands others and no vulture and expect to get repaid what has been credited 20 years ago.
Two and a half months to go yet, wouldn't it be exciting if the holdouts found that the money laundering led back to CFK and her cohorts, imagine the holdouts saying “ unless you pay the full amount due we will broadcast to the world what we have found out” can't wait , may happen yet.
Oct 11th, 2014 - 09:25 am - Link - Report abuse 0@4 They pretty much have said that.
Oct 11th, 2014 - 10:10 am - Link - Report abuse 0There doesn't seem to be a clear statement of who called the meeting. The 'implication' is that it is the Special Master. But holding a meeting is not the same as calling one. I wonder if the 'holdouts' have asked for the meeting in order to make a proposal.
Oct 11th, 2014 - 10:16 am - Link - Report abuse 0@1. A 'bond' has a stated value. That's why it's called a bond. Or perhaps you'd like a new type of financial instrument. The “argentine bond”. An “argentine bond” would be worth 5% of the face value. Try getting anyone to buy it. “Here you are, investor, we have the 'new-style' argentine bond. A single bond has a face value of US$10,000, and that is what you will pay to get one. However, it's only really worth US$500. In the event of any default by the bond issuer, you will get 10% of the real value. In other words, US$50. In short, pay US$10,000, get US$50.” I can't think of a better way to ensure that NO-ONE EVER buys an argie bond ever again. Just on this one case, I would NEVER buy one. My honest thought is that argieland ought NEVER be permitted to offer bonds outside argieland. Let it raise the money it wants inside argieland.
@2. Argieland's 'ratings' are unlikely to improve in important areas in the foreseeable future. Years of litigation have seen argieland PROVE on a daily/weekly basis that it is corrupt, criminal, dishonest. It won't matter what the ratings agencies say. People will always remember. And the word will be spread for years to come. Argieland has cut its own balls off and is now working on cutting its own throat. I wish it every success!
@4 & 5. In that case, I look forward to many prosecutions, criminal convictions, jail terms. Perhaps the democratic countries of the West should refuse to accept argies, even as visitors.
rotting roadkill, you know that your RUFO arguement is a red herring since the clause only applies to the acceptance of voluntary offers - not one imposed by the court.
Oct 11th, 2014 - 10:33 am - Link - Report abuse 0rottting roadkill, you're not going to settle after the expiration of the RUFO clause. You'll it up only when it is forced up on you.
Serial defaulter. Deadbeat.
They will offer the same thing again. The same that they have offered each time they talk which is the same terms that the 92% accepted. No one that has won all the way to the supreme court is going to take a haircut now. You don't need to be even remotely intelligent to get this.
Oct 11th, 2014 - 06:42 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Pay your debts.
Oct 11th, 2014 - 07:23 pm - Link - Report abuse 0#2 Of course an outcome that is a win-win would be ideal for all the parties involved.
Oct 11th, 2014 - 08:57 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Argentina has reiterated it wants to pay in a way that does not endanger the country's economy.
The holdouts, however, will need to be flexible in their demands. There is a reason why the exchange bondholders accepted a 70 per cent haircut. After the 2002 default, that was what the market was willing to pay for those bonds.
The exchange bondholders chose to get one bird in hand rather than two in the bush. The holdouts gambled larger profits through a willing court.
Much of the exponential growth of the debt that led to the default of 2001 was the result of paying “debt with more debt” that military dictators and corrupt civil governments had been systematically doing since the 1970s.
Argentina consistently honoured its commitments based on Nestor Kirchner's position “let the country live so that it can pay back.”
The holdouts chose a different path, trying to use the courts to force 100 per cent of the original bonds' face value. After hundreds of lawsuits trying to seize Argentina property around the world, they found a judge in Ghana willing to seize the frigate Libertad and one in NY willing to block payment to the large majority of creditors to force payment to the tiny minority of holdouts who litigated.
Now, it would have been easy for Cristina Fernandez to defuse the whole thing by agreeing to pay more in a future time. That is what most past governments did. The Kirchners have presided over a decade of growth based on the country's own resources--without contracting new debt--and that is a first for Argentina.
The country could continue its progress--at a slower pace--without outside help. However, diversification is allowing it now to have more partners such as the Bric countries.
Let Argentina be. It will pay you what is fair. But know the time of governments complicit with the big foreign finance has ended.
@10
Oct 11th, 2014 - 09:28 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“The holdouts, however, will need to be flexible in their demands. ”
Umm... no they don't 'need' to do anything.
Argentina gambled, and lost. To continue to lay the blame on past military dictatorships is no excuse. Are you saying that no-one in Argentina was complicit in these dictatorships? That they were 'beamed-in' by aliens?
Argentina seems to have serious issues in taking resposibility. For example, it to the UK over 50 years to pay back its 'War Debt' to the USA. But pay in full it did. the UK did not blame the Nazis for invading Poland, thus causing a Treaty to be invoked and a War started. The British lost millions in lives and treasure but still paid its debt to the USA.
Think about it before crying “It wasn't us, it was the military dictatorship!”
Yes, YOUR military dictatorship, in YOUR country.
Stop making excuses. People need to get paid.
On another note; I hold shares in British Gas.
Argentina owes British Gas approximately $244 million.
Those familiar with the British Gas case say Argentina has no chance of changing the outcome of the legal decision, but the country remains litigious and is still fighting the ruling. Alex Yanos, a partner at Freshfields, the firm representing British Gas, confirmed that Argentina has refused to make payment.
Is this also the fault of some past dictatorship?
Pay your debts. I want my money.
No more excuses!
“Let Argentina be. It will pay you what is fair.”
Oct 11th, 2014 - 09:45 pm - Link - Report abuse 0rotting roadkill will only pay what it is forced to pay. To state otherwise is an insult to all present. lol
apologies for the typos @11, but I'm sure the message is clear.
Oct 11th, 2014 - 10:01 pm - Link - Report abuse 0”For example, it *took* the UK over 50 years to pay back its 'War Debt' to the USA. But pay in full it did. Didn't even blame a foreign dictatorship, didn't even punish Germany, in fact, it helped rebuild, govern and protect it from the USSR.
Enrique is a Kirchner apologist. Safely residing in Canada, far from the problems of his homeland. Just another champagne-sipping socialist, very cosy in a British Commenwealth country, supporting 'the people' from afar.... easy life. It won't be him that will have to make some hard choices when Argentina spirals downward into a massive recession.
Will he be sending food parcels and medicines when the lights go out?
Argentina is know known globally as a deadbeat bad debtor. Where will they go next when they want FDI?
Enrique doesn't realise that his, and his govt's, intransient stance is only harming future generations of Argentinians.
Still, he is quite dishy, (if you prefer the more mature man), and does have good taste in gentleman's headgear, so I guess he can't be all bad....
;-) xx
Enrique is an escaped commie.
Oct 11th, 2014 - 10:09 pm - Link - Report abuse 0and an idiot
He ranks up with Think and Voice on his posts not being right about anything. Not once.
You'd think living in Canada he' d learn contracts have meaning and so does the rule of law.
Its very sad after all these years he still stinks from corrupted Rg brainwashing.
I love how Argentina is just stringing all these sharks along.
Oct 11th, 2014 - 11:58 pm - Link - Report abuse 0rotting roadkill vs. Singer, etal -uhhhh - Singer wins this walking away.
Oct 12th, 2014 - 12:23 am - Link - Report abuse 0For those of you who don't understand what is going on, think of it this way.
Oct 12th, 2014 - 01:05 am - Link - Report abuse 0It is a fight over money between a loan shark and a crack addict!
15. You think you're winning? Bahahahaha
Oct 12th, 2014 - 01:18 am - Link - Report abuse 016/1 and 40%+ inflation is winning?
You'll be lucky to have lights in BA next year if you keep on with this winning.
@ 17 Klingon
Oct 12th, 2014 - 02:11 am - Link - Report abuse 0I have read reams and reams of content on this subject, from many, many, different sources, yet you have encapsulated this topic into a mere 14 words.
“It is a fight over money between a loan shark and a crack addict”
This is the most succinct, concise and cutting summary of the entire situation I have had the pleasure to read.
I thank you.
I look forward to your future posts.
@ 18 yankeboy
FYI: in reference to the future of Argentina...
now in Venezuela;
parallelo dolar: close to 100/1 and 75%+ inflation yoy...
the 'scarcity-index' is at dangerous levels (food/hygiene products/medicine etc).
almost zero auto mfg, it is collapsing, many multi-nationals now have their legal teams in place to fight back against the expropiations... a default is looming.
Maduro, almost weekly, claiming death threats and coup-mongering by 'external' forces, constant TV adverts “the the authorities will save you, trust us NOW the empire threatens etc.” ... Orwelian 1984 scare stories across state-owned media (there is little other), Jeez, have you heard that the military now has its own channel? see TVFANB on directv.com
sound depressingly familiar? Argeteena may have problems but VNZLA is getting hardcore.
On a personal note, last week, a member of my family had to travel by road from Merida to Valencia, in order to buy insulin. Because there was none in a State with a population of almost 1 million.
A trip of of 480km/390 miles EACH WAY, by road, some very dangerous roads now, because the domestic airlines are buggered. They took 3 trucks in convoy... to have a 'presence' on the road.
Thanks Maduro, thank you very fuckin' much.
Power to the People, my sweet Arse!
The people are being suckered and robbed by their own representatives.
:-(
I am so sick of this.
15 Nostrum of NostrolL
you are an idiot. You are being srung along by the K-gang but are to blind to see it.
You will be VNZLA 2.0 unless you act now.
Those who hurl insults to anyone who 'dares' not to follow their warped reasoning reason haven't learned anything, so they keep repeating their mantra like a broken record: “Argentina must pay!”
Oct 12th, 2014 - 07:44 am - Link - Report abuse 0In the meantime, the world is learning more everyday about the practices of the vultures, greedy financiers who buy junk bonds and then use the courts as collection agencies to make obscene profits by collecting what they never paid.
They circled and with no pity siphoned millions from Peru, Zambia, Congo and other similarly vulnerable countries.
Argentina was going to be the cherry of the cake for those parasites of the international finances . Too bad didn't work out the same, eh? So now cry out, vultures, cry!
@20
Oct 12th, 2014 - 10:05 am - Link - Report abuse 0Do you know what % of the total bondholders Singer Group bought and what they paid for them? This Singer is a billionaire, he can wait and discover where the money went which was borrowed, and it was not for helping people out of poverty. It was used to line pockets, I will leave you to guess who were the beneficiaries.
The holdouts WILL eventually receive what is owed even if it is goods to the value. If I were the Kirchner gang I would be looking over my shoulder as NML will certainly use their knowledge of money laundering as leverage.
@10, 20. You really are lost in all this, aren't you? Let's see if we can spell it out so that even an argie can understand.
Oct 12th, 2014 - 10:46 am - Link - Report abuse 0Everything you say is slanted. Let's start with the easy part. There are rules. Rules about financial transactions, about borrowing, about debt and about how one deals with people. Around 99.5% of the world subscribes to those rules. Unfortunately for argieland, it doesn't make the rules. But it knows what they are. Hedge funds are a fact of life. Argieland knows that. I'm constantly amazed at argies that think raising US$92 billion then subsequently offering to repay US$64 billion is okay, but buying bonds at less than face value isn't. Even more so when the original sales were based on lies. Why did argieland offer the bonds under New York law and give up sovereign immunity? Because no, or very few, people would have bought them otherwise. Of course, as we have seen, argieland never intended to comply with the law or give up its immunity.
Your 'arguments' are juvenile. They amount to “Give us another chance”. Except that you lie. All the time. You took the money and spent it. Now it's time to pay the piper. AND recognise reality. Argieland may be a biggish second-rate frog in a little pond, but it's a minnow in the world ocean. It's like a kid with eyes bigger than its stomach. What 'the markets' were prepared to pay is irrelevant. It's about what the bond issuer committed to pay. You're just making excuses for theft. How nice that you admit that the argie bonds were/are junk. Didn't argieland make an 'obscene' profit? 70%? It didn't even have to pay anything. Just issue an ultimatum. “30% or nothing. Your choice!”
The world is under no obligation to 'give' argieland money. It's easy really. You 'borrow', you repay. Go out and get a mortgage to buy a house. What happens if you fail to repay? The mortgage company takes the house. That's where you are. The world does NOT owe argieland a living. Pay up!
@22
Oct 12th, 2014 - 11:59 am - Link - Report abuse 0Didn't Argentina say they would only pay 30 cents on the dollar, US$ 92 billion borrowed and offered to pay US$ 27.6 billion and as I understand it NHL paid 50 cents on the dollar but might be wrong on that figure. Look at CFK declared finances and she has made 1600% profit since taking power.
20. You posted the same idiotic statement a week or two ago.
Oct 12th, 2014 - 12:34 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Don't you realized Argentina lost? Their refusal to abide by court rulings is ruining their economy and will continue to do so until it is resolved.
CFK is literally making people starve by her intransigence.
You do also realize no company or bank will loan to Arg Gov't, Provinces or Private enterprises while its in default.
You do realize in another 19 days this will go from “technical default” to Default. Right?
You're not a very smart guy are you?
@20
Oct 12th, 2014 - 12:46 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Surely the most shameful and demeaning aspect of the whole business is Argentina's attempt to bracket itself with “.... Zambia, Congo and other vulnerable countries”. You may be headed that way, but you aren't there yet. Whatever happened to all this dignidad and respeto you're always demanding?
#24
Oct 12th, 2014 - 04:04 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Oh yeah I forgot!
Argentina is now headed for the real one, the big, capitalized, DEFAULT!
I thought we already were in default, weren't we?
No, this time is the real one, and the expert above has pointed to the difference. Argentina is now in 'technical' default but will fall into abyss in 19 days.
Come on.
What most writers fail to realize is, even if Paul Singer and company are a very powerful group, they are dealing with a nation that is for the most part in support of its government on this one.
The vultures' strategy was based in dealing in courtrooms, far from the limelight. Argentina's refusal to comply broke the maneuver. World consensus is quickly building to follow the path of several European countries that have already outlawed the vulture's practices.
Come on, #21 to #25, get out and smell the roses. Go see--or refresh yourselves--on what reporter Greg Palast has to say about the vultures and other important subjects. But wait a second--is Palast another crazy Argie? Oh wait. He is American! We are doomed.
Here is the news flash for the rotting roadkillians:
Oct 12th, 2014 - 04:04 pm - Link - Report abuse 0If Singer's collection of the debt owed him by rotting roadkill is delayed it's not going to change his standard of living.
If Paul never collects another cent from rotting roadkill his life won't materially change in any appreciable fashion. The luxury and oppulence such as it is goes forward.
rotting roadkill and its rotting roadkillians - however - may not survive Paul Singer.
Pay up while you still have a chance.
26. Old dogs don't learn new tricks. If you are too stupid to see what Singer has been able to accomplish in a few months in Argentina you're doomed to die dumb.
Oct 12th, 2014 - 04:35 pm - Link - Report abuse 0BTW I thought Think/Voice was in Scotland not Canada.
@26
Oct 12th, 2014 - 04:57 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Argentina's crusade against its creditors would be a deal more credible, and even creditable, if it wasn't part of a repeated strategy of breaching obligations and tying up the victims in litigation for years. Attempting to steal the clothes of poor and war-torn African states doesn't make for a peronist Robin Hood either.
@26
Oct 12th, 2014 - 06:09 pm - Link - Report abuse 0goodness me, you do not understand do you? Singer has won the case, you may drag the case out as long as you like but will not make one iota of difference to Singer. The problem with dragging this out is that the ordinary Argentinians are the most affected and that is your governments fault. When you borrow money you have to guarentee you will pay it back. FAIL ARGENTINA. Problem remains the poor in Argentina WILL get poorer. No-one in their right minds is going to lend you money, you have blown it just because you have a “ populist Government”
rotting roadkill is the most over represented state in relation to the volume and scope its transactions of any party with cases pending before either the International Centre for Settlement of Investment Disputes or the World Trade Organization.
Oct 12th, 2014 - 06:14 pm - Link - Report abuse 0rotting roadkillians, why is that?
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