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Falklands case at Gibraltar conference on self-determination and independence

Tuesday, October 14th 2014 - 06:19 UTC
Full article 134 comments

An international symposium looking at the historical backdrop underpinning the concepts of self-determination, devolution, and independence on self-determination will take place next Thursday and Friday in Gibraltar. The aim of this conference is to look at these concepts and to explore them across a number of different examples. Read full article

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  • Anglotino

    Paul, Vestige and Sunshine won't be able to resist.

    Oct 14th, 2014 - 07:16 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Marcelo Kohen

    What Mercropess has forgotten to mention is...that I will make a presentation on the Falklands/Malvinas and the right of peoples to self-determination in this Conference, invited by the organizers, who know very well my positions in this regard and are willing to confront ideas! What a difference with the Islanders' elite, still refusing to held a debate!

    Oct 14th, 2014 - 10:09 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • HansNiesund

    @2

    When can we expect you to be making your presentation to the ICJ?

    Oct 14th, 2014 - 10:23 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Benson

    “What a difference with the Islanders' elite, still refusing to held a debate!”
    What? When have the Islands ferused to hold a debate. We've said we are willing to talk to Argentina but they refuse to acknowledge us.

    Oct 14th, 2014 - 10:29 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • GALlamosa

    #2 Liar. Islanders have never refused to debate with you.....we just do not rate your importance as high as you do.

    Oct 14th, 2014 - 10:41 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • downunder

    “The recent referendum in Scotland and the forthcoming Catalan bid for independence (without forgetting Basque separatism) are realities that present dilemmas to resolve as these moves challenge the traditional yet relatively modern concept of the nation state.”

    “traditional yet relatively modern concept”
    Well one can't expect Argentina to get their mind around that concept. Their thinking, attitudes and values reside pre 1833 and reflect the colonial mentality of those times.

    After the way that Argentina has treated the Falkland Islanders, one can understand them not wanting to have anything to do with any Argentine. Besides, why should they waste their time with people who dont amount to much?

    Oct 14th, 2014 - 11:00 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Steve R

    Are you saying that the Argentinian Government is willing to hold such a debate Mr Kohen? if so then why do they continue to ignore and avoid even talking to the Islanders when offered by the Islands elected government? I refer you to events at the UN's decolonization talks, as well as to the talks scheduled to have been held in the UK with the then foreign secretary for state. We are quite aware of your objections to the Islanders having the same rights as any other group in respect of them been able to decide for them selfs what future they want.

    Oct 14th, 2014 - 11:00 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Dean street

    It's a pity that kohen bars all from discussing anything with him on his facebook site..
    He also blocked Roger Lorton, page administrator because he didn't like what Roger was telling him..

    You can understand why he was chucked off “Falkland Islands - News & History” https://www.facebook.com/groups/326953933989277/860021350682530/?notif_t=group_activity

    No kohen, on social media, you tend to block folk whom you don't like hearing their version of events..

    Oct 14th, 2014 - 11:16 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Lord Ton

    If it is tame speech you gave in March Marcelo - it'll be met with the same derision

    Oct 14th, 2014 - 11:28 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • aussiesunshinee

    Sorry Dr Jennifer Ballantine Perera but it sounds like a very boring evening.
    I decline your invitation to attend. LOL ( Can you just imagine it!! Catalans,Basques: Scots,Gibraltans,Falkand Islanders and Turks IN THE SAME ROOM!!! AAAAAHHHHH!!!

    Oct 14th, 2014 - 11:37 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Dean street

    The problem for kohen is that..

    What problem's there were, were resolved in 1829, then again in 1850, and again in 1982..

    Consequently there's nothing much else to discuss.... Except possibly the weather..

    Oct 14th, 2014 - 11:40 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Conqueror

    @Marcelo Kohen. You're making a 'presentation', are you? Presumably entitled “The Case FOR Imperialist Colonialism, Mendacity and the Place of an 18th century Nonentity in the 21st century”. There are circumstances in which 'self-determination' may have to take second place. Survival, for example, may come first. I can see no reason why argieland should 'own' the Falkland Islands. On the other hand, I can see many reasons why argieland should be poisoned and wiped off the planet.

    But let's get down to cases. Are you ready for the gales of laughter? How about the bricks? Perhaps if you weren't a theorist? Any PRACTICAL knowledge? I find it incredible that an individual with your supposed 'qualifications' could speak on behalf of imperialist colonialism. Still, 'impersonators' can always be shot, can't they?

    Oct 14th, 2014 - 12:32 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Clyde15

    #10
    Sorry you didn't get an invite. Every show needs a clown and you would have fitted the bill perfectly !

    Oct 14th, 2014 - 12:39 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Philippe

    Dr. Perera is probably a Catalonian 5th columnist, and she should be deported to Barcelona, which is still situated in “Espain.” I mean Spain, of course.

    Philippe

    Oct 14th, 2014 - 12:49 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • gordo1

    @14 Philippe

    I think you'll find that Dr Jennifer Ballantine Perera is a Gibraltarian!

    Oct 14th, 2014 - 01:19 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Brit Bob

    @2. Don't forget the 1 ICJ judgment and 4 Advisory Opinions that all confirm or state 'that the right to self-determination is applicable to ALL non-self governing territories' Nor the Fourth Committee voting not to impose any restrictions on the right to self-determination on 17 October 2008. And that paragraph 80 of the Kosovo Opinion determined 'that the scope for territorial integrity is limited to the relationship between individual states and does not impinge on self-determination and independence.' The ILC has also stated that the right is jus cogens. Also of interest is the Kirby definition of 'a people' adopted by UNENSCO. Anything else is fairytales.

    Oct 14th, 2014 - 02:03 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Monty69

    2 Marcelo Kohen
    Who exactly do you think the 'islanders' elite is? And when, exactly, have they ever refused to engage in a debate or confront ideas?
    Who are you anyway? I know it's easy as an academic to appoint yourself as an expert and imagine that what you think is terribly important, but ultimately your view isn't any more noteworthy than mine.
    Let's just go with the 'elite' idea for now. This sounds just like a variant on the old Argentine notion that the Falklands is controlled by an elite of colonial, expatriate perhaps, business interests maybe. And that the ordinary people of the Falklands are downtrodden serfs who are not capable of asserting themselves.
    This is a lazy outdated stereotype, and you need to put it out of your mind if you are ever to understand anything about the Falklands.
    That's if you want to understand; my suspicion is that you just want to impose your own outdated ideas on Falkland Islanders.

    Oct 14th, 2014 - 03:08 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • paulcedron

    “The Falkland Islanders with which Gibraltarians share a colonial heritage as a British Overseas Territory, are also staunch defenders of that right.”

    it would be as if a bunch of thieves have to determine if they are guilty or not.
    give the gypsies who are camping in park lane the same right, you nabous.

    and what independence are these boludous talking about?
    the last thing these parasites want is independence.
    bad news for the honest british taxpayer, i guess.

    Oct 14th, 2014 - 03:24 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Brit Bob

    @2 Please don't forget, 'the 16 remaining territories that still do not govern themselves must have complete freedom of choice to determine their own future status.' Ban KI-moon 201o and, 'I don't think Security Council members are breaching ANY 'relevant' UN resolutions.' Ban KI-moon 12 Nov 12. UNGA 2065 is clearly d e a d. Killed off by the right to self-determination.

    Oct 14th, 2014 - 03:25 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • The Voice

    #18 There speaks an impotent boludo! Big balls, small interlect..

    Oct 14th, 2014 - 04:10 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Monty69

    8 Dean street
    Maybe he only wants to talk to the 'elite'. And we are not it.

    Oct 14th, 2014 - 04:35 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • FI_Frost

    @2 & 18

    Argentina, a country formed on the blood and bones of native peoples by European settlers/ursurpers, claims 'the right' to the Falklands because a 15th century Pope gave prior permission to the Spanish!

    Laughable and pathetic. You're just a bunch of deluded neo-colonists in denial.

    Oct 14th, 2014 - 04:36 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • paulcedron

    english wannabes talking about colonialism and massacres?
    lol
    read the history and the present of your “own” country, you pelotudous

    Oct 14th, 2014 - 04:49 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Jay Bee

    23 Paulcedron

    English wannabes? Really?

    Last time I checked they were living where they wanted to be under the flag of their choice with British passports.

    You Argies and Spanish are the wannabes. Moaning and crying to the world like babies because you can't have what you want.

    Take it to the ICJ.

    Oct 14th, 2014 - 05:21 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Brit Bob

    @2 'The ICJ is the only alternative capable of introducing new dynamics to the Falkland Island dispute because there are no more options for Argentina....Time is running against Argentina because the British have possession of the territory.'

    M. Kohen 23 January 2004.

    http://en.mercopress.com/2004/06/23/international-hague-court-only-alternative-for-dispute

    After 92 years of the world court system in respect of the PCIJ and ICJ Argentina's time ran out about 50 years ago. They have acquiesced to British possession.

    Oct 14th, 2014 - 05:46 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Philippe

    Dr. Perera ought to have known that neither Catalonia nor the Basque Country (either Spanish or French) have never ever been independent, and their “separatist aspirations, if any” are perfectly illegal! Therefore, one could very well ask why (in the devil) are they included in the agenda of such a conference??

    Philippe

    Oct 14th, 2014 - 06:06 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Briton

    Should not these BOTs be removed from the C24 by now.

    Oct 14th, 2014 - 06:11 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Faulconbridge

    “neither Catalonia nor the Basque Country ...have never ever been independent, and their “separatist aspirations, if any” are perfectly illegal!”

    Wasn't the same thing true of the South American territories ruled by Spain until they illegally rebelled and fulfilled their “separatist aspirations”, Philippe?

    Oct 14th, 2014 - 07:44 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Islander1

    Paulecedron - Argentina is the one who is stopping the Islands from ever becoming Independent because of your old fashioned 18th century colonialist attitude to territory and ignoring and trampling on the wishes of people.
    Some of us would like one day to be a small Independent Country in the British Commonwealth like a small Canada- Australia-New Zealand - or Fiji etc.
    But with you lot as an large aggressive neighbour hell bent on taking us over - we wish to stay British as that ensures our defence. So your country,s aggressive attitude is what is really making sure Britain maintains a permanent base in this region.

    Oct 14th, 2014 - 08:07 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • CabezaDura2

    Talking about self determination the United Caliphates of Britanistan and the Sultunate of Swedenistan (the Muslim gang rape capitals of Europe) have recognized Palestine...

    thilthy cowards

    Oct 14th, 2014 - 08:35 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Anglotino

    Yes yes CabezaDura, we all get it. You don't like Muslims.

    Now move along.

    Oct 14th, 2014 - 09:32 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • CabezaDura2

    I dont mind Muslims as long as they are not living right next to me and imposing their ideology and culture on me.

    What I dont like is liberal cowards and appeasers. God bless Israel and the US, countries with balls.

    Oct 14th, 2014 - 09:41 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • HansNiesund

    @31

    It's funny he hates Muslims so much, he has so much in common with them, starting with his attitudes to women.

    Oct 14th, 2014 - 09:43 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • paulcedron

    “...blablabla...Catalan independence and political aspirations in the Basque Country.”

    it seems the 4th class newspaper still doesn't know that mas has resigned to make the referendum.
    not a surprise since it was totally against the constitution.

    get informed, 4th class newspaper.

    Oct 14th, 2014 - 09:44 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • FI_Frost

    @30 CD

    Lol....The spineless, self serving, PC shackled leaders and practioners of (mostly Labour) local authorities does give me nightmares; and makes my blood boil...However, (can't speak Swedenistan) but the up and coming 'Caliphate of Britanistan' causes me zero concern. Relax chum.

    Oct 14th, 2014 - 09:47 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • CabezaDura2

    33. Explicitly, which attitudes towards women you find so offensive in me ??

    Go and have a party Britanistan is coming one small step at a time, you must be happy that you recognized Palestine as a State. Hamas Niesund

    Oct 14th, 2014 - 09:48 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • HansNiesund

    @36

    Your Madonna/whore complex and your unhealthy obsession with who's making whoopee with who, how.

    Yes indeed I am happy that at long last some British politicians have had the balls to call bullshit on Netanyahu and his expansionist religious extremists.

    Oct 14th, 2014 - 09:55 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • zathras

    27 Briton (#) Should not these BOTs be removed from the C24 by now.

    Exactly what I have been wondering.

    Presumably there is a mechanism whereby an area can be added or removed from the C24 decolonisation list.

    Anyone know enogh or can point us in the direction to tell us who has the authrority to do that.

    It may be as simple as the democratically elected members of the Falklands & Gibraltar governments petition BKM and formally request removal.

    Oct 14th, 2014 - 09:56 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • CabezaDura2

    “Madonna/whore complex” really ?? Because I said that a British tart in Ibiza BJing 24 guys is sad and pathetic ???

    Grow up and man up.

    I stand by Israel, and you will bow and kneel before the true “expansionist religious extremists” in your own backyard and streets you pathetic nazi...

    Oct 14th, 2014 - 10:00 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • HansNiesund

    @39

    What, the Jehovah's Witnesses?

    Oct 14th, 2014 - 10:14 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Anglotino

    Now now CabezaDura, wipe the spittle off your keyboard and calm down.

    It has been a long time since Argentina could be considered a multicultural country so of course you have no coping mechanism for that.

    Sweden and the UK beat Argentina hands down on any sort of livability scale. Which seems to frustrate you no end as according to you, the bland homogeneity of Argentina should be more conducive to stability and livability.

    Oct 14th, 2014 - 10:23 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • CabezaDura2

    41 What an earth has Argentina got to do with this discussion??? The first thing you do when you dont have any arguments is throw the Argentina card.

    Argentina is not bowing to the demands of Islam. Sweden and Britain are for all I know.

    “stability and livability.” WTF???

    Oct 14th, 2014 - 11:16 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • FI_Frost

    “What an earth has Argentina got to do with discussion”

    Errh, see: #2 Marcelo Kohen - and CV.

    Oct 14th, 2014 - 11:30 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • CabezaDura2

    To be honest I dont know who that guy is neither I care that much about his presentations.

    Oct 14th, 2014 - 11:35 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Voice

    20
    ...“small interlect”???
    as opposed to your lack of “intellect”....

    Oct 15th, 2014 - 12:42 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Anglotino

    Argentina has shaped you CabezaDura and it shows!

    That is what Argentina has to do with this discussion.

    Oct 15th, 2014 - 12:58 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • CabezaDura2

    46. BS.

    What do you know about me??

    You are a liberal gay and globalist. You will never understand me.

    Oct 15th, 2014 - 01:01 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Anglotino

    CabezaDura.

    I agree, I have great difficultly understanding racist and intolerant people. As I said, Argentina has shaped you.

    Liberal is not an insult, no matter how many times you call me that. Indeed I find terms like that quite quaint as they are an extremely shallow attempt to label someone on a very limited spectrum. Left, right, liberal, conservative... simply terms for simpletons.

    I am unsure what a globalist is, but if you mean that I am a citizen of the world and have a world outlook and viewpoint, then yes. I live in an open, vibrant, multicultural country and have travelled extensively to every inhabited continent as well as living in 3 other countries. I live with Colombians and have neighbours that are Greek, Italian and Japanese, my new boss is.... get this... Iranian! More than half the people I know were either not born here or their parents weren't.

    Argentina has become an intolerant country. It uses foreigners as scapegoats. It is no longer a multicultural mixture of immigrants but a country of emigrants. The government preaches intolerance. And that is why you are a product of Argentina. Because you show this in your commentary. Your country preaches conformity and you are perplexed by countries that allow differences and still prosper. The Catholic Church is no longer Argentina's dominant religion, but the Malvinas and Victimhood are instead.

    For every SINGLE bad example of Islam in countries like UK, Sweden or Australia you give, I can counter with a good example.

    You will run out of examples before me.

    Our countries work and yours does not. A new president isn't going to change things greatly, because it is a societal problem that is starting to afflict you. The government is now more a reflection of that and less a cause.

    You are so conditioned to being a victim that you vainly try to perpetuate that victimhood to bring us down to your level. I can't stoop that far.

    And WTF me being gay has to do with this? You just prove my point.

    Oct 15th, 2014 - 03:58 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • US Air Force

    yeeeeaaahhh......in Gibraltar, right. Talk about show boating and filling the peanut gallery with a bunch of stool pigeons. Farce from the get go. Why don't you hold your little farce of a symposium in Madrid or BA. The right thing to do would be to hold it in neutral camp such as NYC or Stockholm. Self determination...remove the populace and populate with cronies then call out 'self determination'. squatters.

    Oct 15th, 2014 - 05:35 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Philippe

    Indeed, Perera is quite a common name in Spanish Catalonia.

    Philippe

    Oct 15th, 2014 - 06:31 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • gordo1

    Several people on this thread seem to be quite ignorant of the history of the Iberian Peninsula. Prior to the union of Castilla and Aragón in 1469 pretty well all of the peninsula consisted of petty monarchs, principalities, dukedoms etc etc. Although there were “unions” by way of convenient marriages most of these territories were independent of each other. Cataluña has always been “independista”!

    Oct 15th, 2014 - 06:32 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • HansNiesund

    @49

    I'm disappointed. Malvinista-wise you're certainly down with the bile, positively fizzing with it, but there remain some unfortunate gaps in your knowledge.

    Try looking up Marcelo Kohen next time you're doing your “research”. You'll find Marcelo is also an exponent of the view that self-determination doesn't count if it involves Brits and confounds self-serving historical mythology some centuries old.

    But there's no need to adjourn to NYC or Stockholm just so Marcelo can express a controversial point if view. The population of Gibraltar isn't given to histrionic displays of emotional incontinence, and nobody is going to be bringing pick-axe handles and stones to the symposium.

    Oct 15th, 2014 - 07:53 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Buzzsaw

    @49
    'Self determination...remove the populace and populate with cronies then call out 'self determination'. squatters.'

    What two main languages are spoken in S. America?
    What you have described there me old mucker, is the Americas, squatters.
    Yet you are blind to it!

    Why stop at 1700's, let's go back to 1492, or 1309 or 711 pick a date, now who owns what?

    Oct 15th, 2014 - 09:21 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • CabezaDura2

    48.

    You are completely wrong as to me and Argentina as well.

    As I said you will never be able to understand me, because even you know my way of thinking is very apart of mainstream Argentine one.

    You also keep on bringing Argentina into this discussion when Im light years of even upholding Argentina as a role model or an example to follow. You on the other hand are upholding Sweden and UK as models. They may be on some aspects but on others they are rubbish and are doomed.

    You are a pc nutjob, gay, globalist liberal.

    Oct 15th, 2014 - 09:23 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Anglotino

    Sweden and UK are not doomed. Hyperbole much?

    And you are more Argentine than you realise. But you can't see it where those from a distance can easily see.

    “You are a pc nutjob, gay, globalist liberal.”
    I'll take that as a compliment because it is everything that you are not. And being a nutty, gay, global, liberal is opening more doors for me than being an parochial, intolerant, racist, misogynistic, bitter Argentine is opening for you.

    You will always be on the outside looking in with envy while we laugh at your limitations.

    Oct 15th, 2014 - 10:20 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • CabezaDura2

    “You are a pc nutjob, gay, globalist liberal.”
    I'll take that as a compliment because it is everything that you are not. And being a nutty, gay, global, liberal is opening more doors for me than being an parochial, intolerant, racist, misogynistic, bitter Argentine is opening for you.

    Cool

    Oct 15th, 2014 - 10:25 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Brit Bob

    @49. Your comments are illogical and irrelevant. To suggest that it is okay for people from Southern Europe to settle and colonise South America and not right for people from Central Europe to settle in the Falklands is racism and bile. Is the world to return to its pre 1833 borders? Just how would the borders of North and South America look? Get a life.

    Oct 15th, 2014 - 12:11 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Briton

    As long as people wish to remain British, what right has anyone to take that away..

    Oct 15th, 2014 - 12:49 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • US Air Force

    As usual - the only non UK tow the line person. Here are a few things for all of you British Elitists. You have only your perspective. If you win in gibralter and the Malvinas at IJC - Great - good for you. Issue resolved. Meanwhile, while Spain and Argentina have valid claims and the capacity to raise standing armies, then work it out peacefully and without this British baloney PR game. It's illegitimate and without merit, just like the self determination vote in the Malvinas by the squatters. Remind you that the UK won't always be at the pinnacle (which it is already declining and that sun has set) and one day there may be many a Brit wanting to emigrate to lands not run by looney Muslims or goose stepping Krauts.

    57 - Why can't I purchase some land in the Malvinas then with a US passport? Afraid I may vote otherwise on your next self determination farce?

    Oct 15th, 2014 - 03:59 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • rupertbrooks0

    2 Marcelo Kohe

    Not entirely true to say the Falklands refuse to debate the issues.
    Ttry this from the BBC.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OCYoPNQ8dGE

    A debate between Falklanders and Argentines.

    Not sure who the falklands 'elite' are?

    The recent referendum suggests that whom so ever they be thyere conclusions are share by the entire population (bar 3)

    Oct 15th, 2014 - 04:01 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Jay Bee

    I don't think it is true that a US passport holder can't buy land in the Falklands. Maybe they can't buy land in Malvinas but I don't care about that place, wherever it is.

    I'm sure I saw an islander only recently discredit as a myth the notion that outsiders can't buy land there. Can anyone clarify this please?

    Oct 15th, 2014 - 04:20 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Monty69

    59 US Air Force
    You can buy land in the Falklands with a UK passport. There are plenty of people living in the Falklands and owning land with other passports, including US ones. You would be subject to the immigration laws of course, as you would anywhere, and the land purchase has to be approved by Exco, mainly to make sure that the intended use us compatible with current development policy.
    Hope this helps.

    Oct 15th, 2014 - 04:26 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Jay Bee

    62 Monty69

    Thanks, that helps (me) a lot. I doubt it will help US Air Force though. He seems intent on simply trolling. Do any Argentines own land in the islands?

    Oct 15th, 2014 - 04:43 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Briton

    What right does a dictatorship run by CFK in the 21st century have to force a people to live under her doctoral rule,

    Argentina and CFK needs to grow up, and stop acting like a burnt Barbie doll that fallen of the world stage.

    Oct 15th, 2014 - 05:51 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Brit Bob

    59 US Air Force

    Argentina does not have a legitimate sovereignty claim to the Falkland Islands. The Islanders DO have the right to self-determination as confirmed by numerous legal Opinions and Judgment that state, that the right to self-determination is applicable to ALL non-self-governing territories.' There are NO restrictions to this right as per the UN Fourth Committee's vote on 17 Oct 2008 when they rejected a motion from S pain and RG tina to place restrictions where there was (an alleged) sovereignty dispute. Para 80 of the UN ICJ Kosovo Opinion also conformed that 'the scope for territorial integrity is limited to the relationship between states and does not impinge on self-determination or independence.'

    Argentina's claim is based upon a 2-month occupation and proximity. The fact that Argentina has had 92 years to present its claim to the world courts means that she has acquiesced to British possession and has no claim.

    Oct 15th, 2014 - 07:51 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • US Air Force

    Brit Bob - I thought that the 82' conflict was due to the UK dragging their feet to not abide by a UN resolution started in the 60's. As a US citizen, when another country defies and plays legal trickery (ie lengthening the process), it does not appear well. This disagreement is ongoing and is not going away. No matter what anonymous posters place here.

    So how do I get property down there? Is it against the law? You can purchase property in the US - heck the Chinese do.

    Oct 15th, 2014 - 08:28 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Anglotino

    Hmmmm

    Not everyone on here is British.... typically facile.

    And Britons have been emigrating for centuries. Eventually they become something other than British. Like American,Canadian, Australian, New Zealander, Gibraltan and Falkland Islander.

    Oct 15th, 2014 - 09:23 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Buzzsaw

    @66..Just a few pointers for you..UN GA resolutions are no binding and therefore not legally enforceable. C24 even less so. Any negotiations between the Uk and Argentina in that period always carried the caveat that the Islanders had the final say, and, they said no.
    By your logic the 1982 conflict was a unilateral and violent attempt by Argentina to take the Islands, they therefore rendered invalid the previous resolutions which called for peaceful negotiations (no time limits were set).
    If you are a US citizen, then you are of a Hispanic (which explains your bias) origin as I noticed in one of your posts you wrote 'Ja,ja,ja,ja', where and native English speaker would write Ha, ha,ha to suggest laughter.

    As Mr Moon stated with relation to the UK/Falklands '.“I don’t think Security Council members are violating relevant UN resolutions. The impression is that people who are living under certain conditions should have access to certain level of capacities so that they can decide on their own future. And that is the main criteria of the main UN bodies. Having independence or having some kind of government in their territories. I don’t think it’s an abuse or violation of relevant UN resolutions, the UN has been working strongly from its very beginning to help non autonomous territories to achieve independence ”,

    Kind of blows your argument out the water some what old fella, when the chairman of the UN sides with self determination, there doesn't seem to be much chance for the Argies. They always have the C24 to preach to though.

    Oct 15th, 2014 - 09:48 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • HansNiesund

    @66

    I thought you'd know better than that. The conflict was due to Thatcher firing a nuclear missile at the hospital ship General Belgrano when it was on a humanitarian mission delivering CT scanners to the oppressed poor of the Malvinas. And they still don't have one!

    Oct 15th, 2014 - 09:49 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • screenname

    Instead of bickering about Marcelo Kohen (oh, how ameriindian is that name! haha!) could someone slightly less lazy than myself please just post a link when he is allowed to add relevant video/audio content to the United Nations website of audiovisual Library of international law?

    http://legal.un.org/avl/intro/introduction.html?tab=2

    as far as I can tell he has been thwarted at every attempt so far, which suggests Argentina's claim is all hot air.

    is there any evidence that the Marcelo Kohen account even belongs to the Argentine lawyer of that name?

    Oct 16th, 2014 - 03:41 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • US Air Force

    ok everybody - Here I am screaming at a brick wall, about to get drowned out by all the internet idiots when confronted with educated facts:

    ”Third, to be blunt, the British statement that they have ‘no doubt’ about their title over the Falklands is total rubbish. Privately (of course) they have every reason to doubt it. In fact, I think it would be fair to say that despite the UK’s de facto control for all these years, it is indeed Argentina that has a somewhat superior title over the Islands.”

    This statement is made by, wait, are you holding on.....a Brit!!!

    whoops: here is the link: http://www.ejiltalk.org/?s=falkland

    and it is from (drum role please.......) : European Journal of International Law!!!!!

    and wait it gets better, are you ready:

    ”In sum, because of (1)-(6), it is unlikely in the extreme that the UK would be willing to submit this case to a court. It would of course do so if Argentina would be willing to accept arguendo the UK’s title over the Islands, and thus narrow the dispute down to the current oil exploration issues. “

    hold on - just when you didn't think it couldn't happen, it gets better:

    ”Likewise, the Islanders’ claim to self-determination is dubious for various reasons, and UN practice with regard to the Falklands does not support it.”

    There you have it lady and gents - now bring on the one lined retorts, rants, insults, question my location and employ, call me an Argie...whatever. Go tend to your sheep.

    What will the Falklanders squatting on the Malvinas do when the Mercosur countries decide to ban UK ships and planes. Do you Falklanders actually think the UK will continue an indefinite lifeline of help to a measley 3000 people? Ok now you can start with the insults, only if Hans Fueher can be first in line please.

    Oct 16th, 2014 - 04:51 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Brit Bob

    66 US Air Force. That old resolution from the 1960s inviting UK and Argentina 'to talk' was non- binding and is no longer relevant. 'Interests of the inhabitants' has been replaced by inalienable rights of the inhabitants' because of the development of self-determination which is now 'jus cogens' compelling law. It is as Ban KI-Moon said last year, 'I don't think Security Council members (UK) are in breach of ANY 'relevant' UN resolutions.' It is up to Argentina to present its case to the ICJ - the UK already has lawful possession. Argentina is quick to use the ICJ over the Pulp Mills on the River Uruguay and has been threatening to use the 'international courts' against UK oil companies since February 2010. Fact is, 92 years of not presenting a case means that Argentina has acquiesced to British possession. The rest of South America only pays lip-service to Argentina's illegitimate sovereignty claims. Lol.

    Oct 16th, 2014 - 07:15 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Anglotino

    After all that, you would think if Argentina's claim was that strong then it would take it to the ICJ. But alas, it doesn't.

    The UK doesn't need to do anything. It has sovereignty over the Falkland Islands and is recognised thus by the United Nations.

    How or why would any Mercosur country ban UK ships and planes?

    What an extremely simple view of how the world works.

    Oct 16th, 2014 - 07:29 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • inthegutter

    #71

    Others have already destroyed most of your arguments, but here are a few extras:

    In the worst case scenario (which I don't believe to be true) the UK forcefully annexed the islands from the proto-Argentine state. Are you suggesting that territorial expansion (by force) in the early 19th century should be voided, with land returned to its previous owners? Firstly, why stop in the 1800s? Why not go back further? In addition your country (whichever it is out of the US and Argentina) would have to “give back” a significant portion of its current territory? How do you reconcile this? If your answer is “no one demands it” I'm pretty sure Mexico, and the native Patagonian inhabitants, would literally jump at the opportunity to retake their “usurped” territory.

    “What will the Falklanders squatting on the Malvinas do when the Mercosur countries decide to ban UK ships and planes. Do you Falklanders actually think the UK will continue an indefinite lifeline of help to a measley 3000 people? Ok now you can start with the insults, only if Hans Fueher can be first in line please.”

    Firstly, legally, Mercosur could not blanket ban UK ships; if they did that would surely scupper any EU-Mercosur free trade agreements. Secondly, UK planes do not travel via South America, Chilean flights do. Banning specific Chilean flights from using Argentine territory would be legally difficult, moreover, they could simply redirect around the Horn. Failing that, they'd use Chilean port facilities. Failing that, they'd use non-UK flagged ships (as I imagine they already do); are you going to ban all foreign ships from South America?

    The ICJ is not going to transfer a population from one administering power to another against the wishes of the inhabitants. It would make a mockery of the founding principles of the UN. Even if that somehow happened the Falklands would unilaterally declare independence, and my guess is that, like Kosovo, they would be quickly acknowledged by many UN members.

    Oct 16th, 2014 - 07:38 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Benson

    @59
    “Why can't I purchase some land in the Malvinas then with a US passport? Afraid I may vote otherwise on your next self determination farce?”
    You can if you move there. You can't buy from overseas just to rent out. This is because of absentee landlords owning large parts of the Falklands in the past and a lot of money going out of the Islands.

    Oct 16th, 2014 - 08:40 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • downunder

    71 US Air Force (#) “ by all the internet idiots when confronted with educated facts:”
    A belligerent entry Air Farce, it’s not a good start. Here are some ‘facts’ from the same website that you referred us to:
    “It’s not clear that the Falklands ever belonged to Argentina in the first place – if they did it was for no more than a year, giving Argentina a similar claim to the islands to the US, who owned them for a similar period.” And
    “In the case of the Falklands (Malvinas), the UK has repeatedly ruled out such negotiations as long as the Falkland Islanders wish to remain part of the UK. Both direct negotiations and third-party adjudication in relation to the Falklands also became considerably less likely because of the decision of Argentina’s military government to take the Falklands (Malvinas) by force in 1982.” And
    “In 1833 the Royal Navy removed a small Argentine garrison from the Falkland Islands allowing the settlers to stay; Britain having already claimed the Islands. In 1850 Argentina and Britain signed a legally binding treaty called ‘the Convention of Settlement’. In the treaty both countries acknowledged that ‘a state of perfect harmony had been restored’ and ‘that neither country had ANY outstanding differences.’ Argentina’s claim to the Falklands is based on proximity only. The UK government has offered to go to the International Courts of Justice on three occasions to discuss ownership of the islands. Argentina declined. Argentina’s claims to the Falkland Islands surfaces as late as the 1940s during the time of Peron. Argentina’s claims to the Falkland Islands is no stronger than Canada claiming Alaska because it’s closer. The 3,000 Falkland Islanders also have the right to self determination under the UN charter.”
    The point is that there are some scholars of International law who support Argentina’s historical claim. There are others who don’t. Trolling the website for ‘facts’ doesn’t mean a lot when there are conflicting points of view.
    But as dis

    Oct 16th, 2014 - 08:45 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • HansNiesund

    @71

    Oh dern, a gracious invitation, the momentous discovery of a blog post on the Internet, and I missed it!

    Quite an interesting post too, though it suffers from the usual Argentine fallacies, notably the unquestioning acceptance of the Argentine claim in all its glory, and the idea that any supposed weakness in the British position equates to a strength in the Argentine one.

    This ain’t so. The Argentine case has to stand on its own merits. And obviously enough, the Court would examine these. And so it would discover a case based upon a claimed inheritance that was never left to Argentina by a country that was never in undisputed possession of the islands, that abandoned them before Argentina existed, and that didn’t even recognise Argentina until 50 years later, when it had already acknowledged British sovereignty.

    Further to this we have dubious interpretations of treaties Argentina was never a party to, repudiation of the one treaty it actually was party to, and a mythology of settlement and expulsion which constitutes a violation of the historical record, plain common sense, and the laws of physics.

    And then there are the questions of migrating birds and underwater geology, as more recently invoked by President Fernandez de Kirchner herself.

    It would also be relevant that Argentina rejects any application of law, democracy, or human rights in pursuit of its claim. It responded to a UN recommendation for a peaceful solution by starting a war, invading the islands, and refusing a binding instruction to remove its troops.

    And now 30 years and 1,000 deaths later, it apparently believes it can obtain the surrender of the victor by claiming to a UN decolonization committee that colonial inheritance allows it to colonise the islands regardless of the rights of the inhabitants under the UN Charter.

    But most curious of all is that Argentina can have the islands tomorrow. All it has to do is persuade the islanders.

    Please, please, please take this to court!

    Oct 16th, 2014 - 09:02 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • downunder

    #76 Continued:
    But as discussed ad nauseum, legal title is only one part of the case, the rights of the Islanders to self - determination and the fact that many of the Falkland Islanders are descendants from people who occupied the Islands more than 200 years ago all weigh heavily in their favour. These facts make Argentina’s persistent complaints seem shrill and specious. Argentina’s belligerent behavior and attitude towards the Islanders betrays the hopelessness of their cause and only turns world opinion against them.

    The way that you conduct yourself on this site reflects that attitude, you certainly don’t present like any airman I know, airmen are like a band on brothers they are usually gentlemen irrespective of nationality. Perhaps it’s just a bit of ‘finger trouble’ eh airfarce?

    But your overbearing attitude and animosity towards people that you hate (like the British) puts you in good company with the other haters on this site like argiedarkness and hepatitis. The brains trust, the trifecta of losers!
    You can tell a man who loses by the company he chooses.

    Oct 16th, 2014 - 09:05 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • HansNiesund

    @78

    Whatever the ins and outs of title, the plain fact of the matter is that Argentina through its behaviour has made it politically impossible for any British government to accede to any of its demands, even if one wanted to.

    The interesting question that remains is whether the Peronists really are too clueless to realise this.

    Oct 16th, 2014 - 09:33 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • gordo1

    @ 71 US Air Force

    Maybe you should read this:-

    http://www.falklands.gov.fk/assets/Outdated-GettingItRight.pdf

    Oct 16th, 2014 - 09:37 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • downunder

    79 HansNiesund (#)
    “Whatever the ins and outs of title, the plain fact of the matter is that Argentina through its behaviour has made it politically impossible for any British government to accede to any of its demands, even if one wanted to. ”

    Yes its sad really, there are plenty of other tiny Island states that live independently and peacefully close to a 'big brother'.
    Unfortunately the Falklands are close to the wrong 'big brother', big bully is a better description.

    btw I enjoyed your last post #77, its spot on!

    Oct 16th, 2014 - 09:42 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • SebaSvtz

    @ 76

    Let´s share some material so we all learn together:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arana%E2%80%93Southern_Treaty

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arana%E2%80%93Southern_Treaty

    Oct 16th, 2014 - 11:37 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Briton

    Interesting is it not, that all these anti British//commonwealth // American -
    haters always sing from the same book, of indocronoughts,

    its NOT ok for us to claim anything,
    but ok for Spain and argentine,

    we cant rule ourselves
    but they can impose rule on us,

    we must give up everything,
    but they give up nothing,
    we are always to blame and its our fault,
    but they are always right and it never their fault.

    And yet, they still run out of toilet paper to swipe the sweat of guilt of their head...

    Oct 16th, 2014 - 12:27 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Clyde15

    #71
    I take it now that you have owned up to being an Argie troll as you get more and more belligerent with your posts. Who would have guessed.
    You certainly had me fooled !!!!!!!!!!!!

    Oct 16th, 2014 - 02:01 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Jay Bee

    71 USAF

    I can't believe it. You had me hook line and sinker!

    How many different names is that you've used on here now. 30? 40?

    Oct 16th, 2014 - 02:35 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ljb

    Is that the best Kohen can come up with? One hit and run comment!! Sounds like an Malvinist to me.

    Oct 16th, 2014 - 06:17 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Hepatia

    Eighty six comments on an article about a conference held in one British colony on the subject of another British colony. I guess you British wingnuts are suckers for British government propaganda.

    Although nearly all the comments are blocked I image that they are formulaic. 'Because [insert event here] happened on [insert historical date here] the Falklands will be forever British', and so on. What the British wingnuts fail to understand that what has happened in that past is irrelevant and it is this irrelevance that renders their argument flaccid. What is important is what will happen in the future. And the future is that within the next 25 years the UK will return the Malvinas.

    Oct 17th, 2014 - 12:48 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Anglotino

    Speaking of formulaic!

    25 years..... Bahahahahahahahaha

    Oct 17th, 2014 - 01:15 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • US Air Force

    84 - Clyde, I will extend to you civility in responses, for I genuinely believe that you are from England and are over 80 years of age. You responses have been forthright, as much as you don't believe that someone from the US is incapable of backing 3000 people's myopic claim to Islands. The article that I referred to is the real deal. It has some good points, for one, the UK will eventually lose political capital on real financial responsibilities within its immediate domain and will herald new enemies to contain (ie Muslim extremism within the Island) and a Russian advance upon the European mainland. Hopefully for everyone involved, there is NO oil to be found as I think the Houston based oil company has recently discovered. Falklanders should contemplate the eventuality of loss UK interest with the realization of no return on hydrocarbon reserves. Stay well sir.

    Oct 17th, 2014 - 05:07 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Anglotino

    That is all totally unfounded. UK sovereignty is not predicated on finding oil. It is also not influenced by any supposed loss of political capital.

    The reason you are not believable is not because of what you say in so much as that you are repeating the EXACT same argument that Argentineans use.

    For someone who is supposedly American, you have not actually offered a new viewpoint. You have just said the exact same thing that Argentineans that are brainwashed by a 70 year old fabrication of Peronism.

    There is no conceivable future where the UK will make a decision without the permission of the Falkland Islanders. If you cannot even attempt to disprove that, then you will be left standing in the same place that dozens of posters from Argentina have been standing in for decades now.

    What could the UK conceivably be rewarded with by giving the Falkland Islands to Argentina? Would they still receive any such reward if they grant them independence?

    What does the UK lose by continuing the status quo?

    Tackle those questions before acting as if you have in depth knowledge about this issue.

    Oct 17th, 2014 - 07:36 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • HansNiesund

    @87 Hepatia, @89 US Air Force

    Nice to meet the twins.

    @89

    US Air Force, as I believe you've previously intimated, you're at quite an early stage of your researches, so there's no need to be ashamed of your ignorance.

    To help advance a little further, here's another article you might enjoy, and quite possibly another surprise for you if you've been researching mostly in the Malvinaverse, but there are do exist some Argentines who approach the Falklands in an objective, rational, bile-free manner.

    This chap is a judge in a criminal court of Buenos Aires, holder of a PhD in economic history, and a professor in the Master in Law and Economics program at the University of Buenos Aires.

    http://panampost.com/belen-marty/2014/04/03/our-islands-overcoming-the-falklands-war-political-football/

    Sample: “I think that since 1982 the case of the Falklands has been used as a political banner, as an instrument for firing up nationalist sentiments, but not a single government has tried to find a rational solution to the problem.That is characteristic of this government, but also that of Alfonsín, Menem, and de la Rúa.”

    I also have, if I may, a question for you. How do you feel, as a yank and a military man, about the role of Silas Duncan, the Lexington, and the US Navy in the Falklands saga? An entirely justified effort to clean out a nest of pirates who'd been seizing US ships, or a vile assault on the legitimate rights of Argentina in the Falklands, South Georgia, South Sandwich Islands, and surrounding maritime spaces?

    Hepatia, congratulations, at last somebody is prepared to admit that the past is irrelevant. How is this point of view going down elsewhere in the Malvinista time warp? And if we are to forget about 1833, what exactly is the basis of Argentina's claim today?

    You might also like to read the interview with Ricardo Manuel Rojas., who actually has some constructive ideas about the future (although I don't share them myself)

    Oct 17th, 2014 - 08:25 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Benson

    @88
    Yeah next centuary they will be saying “In the next 25 years...”
    Wait surely you can't say “25 years” because if you add another 5 onto the end you get a reference to the Falklands War and it is an insult to your veterans

    Oct 17th, 2014 - 08:47 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Anglotino

    She had repeated the same mantra since May 2012.

    So it is now 22.5 years!

    Oct 17th, 2014 - 08:54 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Pete Bog

    @87
    “within the next 25 years the UK will return the Malvinas.”

    We don't have any rotten vineyards-all UK vineyards have a good regime of controlling fungal diseases. So we won't be handing any of our vineyards to Argentina-besides you have vineyards of your own why would you want ours as well?

    Oh, I forgot, Argentina always tries to claim anything that isn't its own even though it has plenty of what it demands within its own country.

    @89
    “ Falklanders should contemplate the eventuality of loss UK interest with the realization of no return on hydrocarbon reserves”

    You still don't get it do you?

    The UK will continue to support the Islanders regardless of whether there is an economic advantage or not, as the UK has done full heartedly since 1982 because of self-determination-not because of oil, fish, Tussac Grass, Diddle Dee, Vanilla Daisies, Teaberries,Kelp, Quartzite reserves, peat etc etc etc etc.

    @93Anglotino

    This is one of the most amusing mantras I have read on this posts, a bit like Hitler's thousand year Reich that lasted less than that 'magical' 25 years.

    Thank you for doing the Maths-so the UK will hand over a twisted pile of mildew infected grapevines to Argentina in 2037?

    @92 Benson
    “Wait surely you can't say “25 years” because if you add another 5 onto the end you get a reference to the Falklands War and it is an insult to your veterans”

    LOL. The irony of which will escape Hepatia.

    Oct 17th, 2014 - 10:40 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • sceptic64

    @71: re this:

    “This statement is made by, wait, are you holding on.....a Brit!!! !”

    What leads you to believe that Roberto Laver , educated at the University of Buenos Aires, is “a Brit?”

    Oct 17th, 2014 - 12:16 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Clyde15

    #89
    “ I genuinely believe that you are from England and are over 80 years of age.”

    What thought process brings you to that conclusion ?

    Oct 17th, 2014 - 12:23 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Briton

    87 Hepatia = British proper gander,
    here speaks a man who thinks CFK is the greatest, and he lives in a rich and debt free country,

    lololol twit twat.

    Oct 17th, 2014 - 12:55 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Conqueror

    @26. Are you saying what I think you're saying? The double negatives are quite confusing. The Basque Country is quite difficult, but wouldn't the local tribes have been 'independent' before the Romans arrived? I've been unable to locate a determination showing that a 'people' needs to have been independent within a space of time to be considered eligible for self-determination. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basque_people
    With respect to Catalonia, you might want to read http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basque_people and associated articles.
    @49. What has Gibraltar to do with BA or the Falkland Islands with Madrid? Here's a thought. Why do your 'politicians' trot round the world making dodgy deals and then trumpeting that x country supports argieland. No-one REALLY supports argieland. Even your latam Kameraden were surprised at how quickly argieland was BEATEN in '82. And we'll hold OUR symposiums where we like. The only symposiums worth holding in BA and Madrid would be on POVERTY!
    @59. The phrase is “toe the line”, ding dong. Neither argieland nor spain have valid claims. Please note 1982 and 1714. As for 'standing armies', you jest. Argies are cowards and runners, whilst spaniards are runners and cowards. The Falklands referendum was determined to be fair and legal under international rules and laws. And why can't you buy land in the Falklands on a US passport? A number of possible reasons. The Islanders may be reacting to the unsupportive USA. They may choose not to sell land to aliens. You may be considered to be an 'undesirable'. Have you made an application? FIG asks UK government. UK asks US government. Maybe they get your FBI files!
    @66. UNGA resolutions are NON-BINDING. You don't know enough to go to the Falklands. Based on your attitude, you'd probably be taking an involuntary swimming trip.
    @71. Try this one, dumbo. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basque_people Remember who won in '82?
    @87. THICK as two short, unwanted, rotten planks.

    Oct 17th, 2014 - 03:08 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • US Air Force

    94 Pete - keep telling yourself that the UK will always have the political motivation to keep its tendrils strewn half way around the world while its economy begins to default, just like EVERYone else, including the US or while the London Mayor decries the infiltration of Jihadi al Britani to the tune of tracking 5000 nutballs within London itself.

    Oct 17th, 2014 - 03:49 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Brit Bob

    89 & 99 Argie - Nothing useful to say just bile. Just remember that a sovereignty claim without a case is illegitimate.

    Oct 17th, 2014 - 04:48 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Clyde15

    #89
    Reply required for post at #89

    I believe the quoted figure of possible Jihadis applies to the whole of the EU, not London.

    Oct 17th, 2014 - 05:01 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • HansNiesund

    @100

    I still find it impressive how a yank is able to reproduce the trajectory of a Malvinista argiement so faithfully :

    1. The usual nonsense, 1833 and all that.
    2. The crimes, real and alleged of the British Empire
    3. The Royal Family
    4. The Islamic hordes now coming to Argentina's rescue.

    All that's missing so far is Chagos, but maybe I missed that.

    Oct 17th, 2014 - 05:07 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Jay Bee

    I believe the UK should discuss the sovereignty of the islands in 1,982 years from now.

    NOTE: Any confusion between the number of years to go before the UK should discuss sovereignty, and the year 1982 are purely coincidental.

    Oct 17th, 2014 - 05:12 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Briton

    99@
    An interesting point,
    Except that the usa and argentina together have only been around for abt 500 years,

    Britain on the other hand has 2,000 years of experience, and have had influence around the world in one way or another for most of that time,

    So experience wise, we would side with the British to continue to have influence in the future, as will the USA,

    Argentina on the other hand, [like Spain ]
    Will be lucky not to break up into different countries in the next 20 years…lol
    .

    Oct 17th, 2014 - 06:07 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Anglotino

    Why do they use new logins when they are just going to repeat the exact same argument?

    Oct 18th, 2014 - 12:46 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • downunder

    87 Hepatia#
    Here is the formula that that some argentine supporters (trolls) employ when writing their posts.
    1 Denigrate the British for being British.
    2 Describe the Falkland Islands as a backward unpleasant place.
    3 Attack the legitimacy of the Islanders and dismiss their views on the future of their Islands as irrelevant.
    4 Present cherry picked opinion as ‘facts’.
    5 Combine the so called ‘facts’ with mythology to produce arguments that support word-for-word the arguments being put forward by the Argentine government.
    6 Conclude with dark doomsday predictions about the future. A Russian invasion of Europe, the 25 year mantra, the decline of the UK and other countries, the collapse of the established order and the rise of Muslim insurgents causing international chaos.
    Every post that we see from the trolls contains some or all of these elements; you all sing from the same dark song book.
    It appears that Argentina’s sole strategy to take control of the Falklands is to hope that the UK will simply give them up. Then, Argentina thinks that it will be allowed to take over. Like a vulture waiting for its carrion to die before moving in.
    Argentina is trashing its reputation because of a grievance over an incident that occurred nearly 200 years ago and aggrieved national pride. It may also believe that, by seizing more territory, it will increase its stature and position within the community of nations. None of these reasons does them any credit, this is not about the outcome of a football game; it is about people and their rights to live in on their Islands in peace and to choose how they wish to be governed. These are rights that most of us take for granted.
    Argentine supporters on this site have even suggested that the Islanders should be ‘removed’ from the Falklands. ‘Removed’ where? This is an appalling suggestion and people who subscribe to it are beyond contempt.
    Formulaic responses are the preserve of people who can’t think for themselves!

    Oct 18th, 2014 - 02:25 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • US Air Force

    102 - Hans Goose Stepper - not Islamic hordes...that one is plain fact. UK has a bad case of the extremist muslim that it created all by itself, Argies had nothing to do with that one. BTW, how did a Kraut end up in Argieland or on the Malvinas, uncle scuttle a U2 and row ashore?

    106 - down - Is it me or are the Russians not in Ukraine this year, and weren't they just in Georgia a few years ago? and are there not US F-16s in Poland? Russian invasion of Europe - crazy speak.....Russians wanting the Iron Curtain back, never.

    Oct 18th, 2014 - 05:59 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • HansNiesund

    @107

    My goodness, United States Air Force, you seem remarkably unaware that it was primarily the United States that boosted Islamic extremism, that it's the United States which has been the victim of the world's worst terrorist atrocity, perpetrated by Islamic extremists, and that your namesake and employer the United States Air Force is currently flying combat missions against them in Iraq and Afghanistan.

    And yet your first thought is that the jihadis will somehow advance Argentina's claim to the Falklands. Seriously, I'm starting to think that you're beginning to take these Exercises in Argentinidad of yours just a little too far. A person might start to think that you've caught the peculiar Malvinista delusion that the whole world revolves around the Malvinas neurosis which Argentine governments inflict on their own citizens.

    Perhaps it's now time you tried to come across in at least one of your posts like a proper United States airman, or some posters might begin to doubt your credibility. I mean, take your “scuttle a U2 and row ashore”. As far as I recall, a U2 is an aeroplane and not a submarine, and most reasonable people would expect a member of the United States Air Force to know the difference.

    Oct 18th, 2014 - 07:54 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • lsolde

    Hans, you're trying to be rational with an irrational RG.
    lts like trying to reason with a 3 year old who is throwing a tantrum.
    usaf is definitely Argentine.

    Oct 18th, 2014 - 01:01 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • HansNiesund

    @109

    I'm only trying to help, Isolde, like I sometimes do with Tobi. I mean, this is just embarrassing, quite the most fuck-witted Argiehadi false flag operation I have encountered to date.

    I hope it's all being done pro bono, if not somebody's going to be wanting their money back, and deserves to get it.

    Oct 18th, 2014 - 02:11 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Briton

    106 downunder
    On your piece
    Because of a grievance over an incident that occurred nearly 200 years ago and aggrieved national pride

    If we British took the same attitude that 87 Hepatia and other Argie indocronoughts
    Have taken,

    Does that mean we can hate the Normans forever?
    After all that incident that happened in 1066 also aggravated national pride,

    These brain dead zombie controlled trolls are totally without care, morals, of honesty
    Just wanabe thieves braggarts and future invaders…
    Bad nasty Cfk argies..



    .

    Oct 18th, 2014 - 06:25 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • lsolde

    @111 Briton,
    Let's go back even further.
    “What have the Romans ever done for us?” (thanks Monty Python!).
    How dare they build good roads in our country!
    (some of which are still in use today).

    Oct 18th, 2014 - 08:11 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Briton

    These argies are so soooo ungrateful...

    Oct 18th, 2014 - 08:22 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • downunder

    #107 “106 - down - Is it me.....?”
    Yes it is Air Force! You should have quit while you were ahead and stopped right there old Son!

    #111 Briton “Does that mean we can hate the Normans forever?
    After all that incident that happened in 1066 also aggravated national pride,”

    And what about the Vikings? The UK should be sending it's foreign minister to the UN to protest Viking incursions all around the British Isles.

    Oct 18th, 2014 - 11:21 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Hepatia

    http://en.mercopress.com/2014/10/14/falklands-case-at-gibraltar-conference-on-self-determination-and-independence#comment359431:
    1 I don't think it is necessary to take any position on Argentina or the Malvinas in order to feel the need to denigrate the British. To be exact the only British that I denigrate are those super jingoists that respond on this British government run propaganda site.
    2 I've never described “the Falklands” as anything.
    3 The UK will be returning the Malvinas within the next two years. In this context the “legitimacy of the Islanders” and “their views” is irrelevant.
    4 The only opinion that I that is relevant is the the UK will be returning the Malvinas within the next 25 years. I present this opinion as fact because ii is a no brainer.
    5 I have not presented any argument on the correctness of the return of the Malvinas. Were I to do so then that argument would not conform to anything that the Argentinian government might have to say. And it would not conform to any argument yet presented here either.
    6 The Russian Federation will not initiate an invasion of Western Europe. Why should they? The return of the Malvinas within 25 years in terms of “darkness” or light.

    I cannot comment of whatever strategy the Argentinian government may, or may not adopt. What I can say is that the UK will return the Malvinas within the next 25 years irrespective of any Argentinian strategy,

    Oct 19th, 2014 - 01:30 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Ekeko

    @115

    It's not the uk's to give.

    Simple.
    As.
    That.

    So any strategy uk, argentine or cooked up by yourself is irrelevant.

    Oct 19th, 2014 - 11:22 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ilsen

    Anyone got next weeks winning Lotto numbers?

    Oct 19th, 2014 - 01:23 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Clyde15

    #115
    3 The UK will be returning the Malvinas within the next two years.

    4 The only opinion that I that is relevant is the the UK will be returning the Malvinas within the next 25 years

    I present this opinion as fact because ii is a no brainer.

    You have totally lost me here !
    within the next two years.
    within the next 25 years
    I present this opinion as fact because ii is a no brainer.
    To what does ii refer.
    Totally incoherent posts. Try it in your native Spanish and it might be comprehensible.

    Oct 19th, 2014 - 01:41 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Briton

    115
    bla bla bla.
    baa baa baa
    wolf in sheep's clothing.

    go home son, you are embarrassing yourself...

    Oct 19th, 2014 - 06:34 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • lsolde

    @115 Hepatia,
    Your posts are declining in quality, Miss/Mrs/Madame 25 years.
    Are you feeling the strain of pretending to be an American?
    Perhaps you mean to say that Argentina will return the land which it stole from Paraguay, within the next 25 years.
    Hope this helps.

    Oct 19th, 2014 - 08:23 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • paulcedron

    land stolen to paraguay...?
    i guess you are talking about the guerra de la triple alianza, no?
    and what do you know about it?
    nothing?
    lol, isolde, you'd better shut it.

    Oct 19th, 2014 - 10:32 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ilsen

    Telling Isolde to 'shut it' only proves your impotence paul-carrion.

    She actually has something to say, whilst you only have to squeal about how Cristina has emasculated your country.

    Any news on that debt you owe to British Gas (BG Group) ?
    I own shares in that company, I want my money, debtor boy.

    Oct 19th, 2014 - 11:13 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Troy Tempest

    121 El nino

    Once again, the nino is too stupid, too lazy, and too ill-informed to argue using examples, links, or logic.

    He resorts to trying to intimidate other posters, and deride legitimate points that he hasn't the ability to contest.

    Nino, your bullying might work with your pimply trade school classmates, but not here.

    Oct 20th, 2014 - 04:14 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • lsolde

    @121 nabolito cedron,
    l know much more than you ever will, my little troll.
    l know also how Argentina stole land from Paraguay in 1871.
    Almost certain that they want it back & any Argentines that live on that stolen land are Squatters.
    An implanted population, you might say.
    ln fact if there are any Argentine military there at all, it can be said that Argentina is militarizing the area, which as we all know is a “zone of peace”.
    Ha.
    Haven't got onto yet the migratory patterns of Paraguayan birds.
    So, tell me, niño, when do you think that Argentina will return Paraguay's land?
    We all know that Argentina wants to do the right thing, don't we, pauliebaby?
    Answers please, then you can shut it yourself.

    Oct 20th, 2014 - 10:37 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ilsen

    Haha! You tell him Isolde.

    He is developing a nasty little habit of telling people to “shut it”. Obviously has no effect and shows that he has run out of things to say himself. I often find that those who run around accusing others of being stupid, or lacking knowledge, are often the most 'challenged'.

    My guess is Argentina will be returned to the indigenous ameri-indians within 25.
    Not on purpose of course, but by accident. After the economy collapses the infrastructure will begin to fail. Society will fail. The rich will flee the poor will flounder and die. Should take about 20 years for Mother Nature to reclaim the cities. Only the original people will have the skills to survive.

    Oct 20th, 2014 - 12:45 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Benson

    “3 The UK will be returning the Malvinas within the next two years. In this context the “legitimacy of the Islanders” and “their views” is irrelevant.”
    Really? How convinced of that are you, would you like a wager because I'd remortgage my house for that action.

    Oct 20th, 2014 - 12:58 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • malen

    124 Isolda.........writting “nabolito cedrón”....jajaja
    copying arg style of talking, every day more argy....

    Oct 20th, 2014 - 04:23 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • HansNiesund

    @126

    I'll take the wager too. I don't believe in Nostradamus either.

    Oct 20th, 2014 - 07:52 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ilsen

    I'm up for a wager on that too. Especially as The Malvinas don't actually exist.
    Anyone want to buy a unicorn foal? I'll have a few ready to go, in, oh, about two years. If you would like to visit the stud-farm, the entrance is through the back of the Wardrobe. Bring the kids, meet a British Lion and and Argentinian Witch, make a day of it!

    Oct 20th, 2014 - 08:05 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • HansNiesund

    @129

    Yeah, but are they any good for polo, these unicorn foals?

    Oct 20th, 2014 - 08:29 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ilsen

    @Absolutely!
    My trainer in Alpha-Centurai always takes the winning team for a meal at The Resturant at the End of Universe. Fat Max is a regular there, haven't you heard?
    Unfortunately, I have just been informed by my stable-lad, Hepatia, that due to some local economic difficulties that any new foals won't be available for 25 years now. However, Hepatia informed me that any down-payments will be honoured at a rate of 33% per cent per foal.
    So you might get the Nikea or Walmart version, (depending on location, delivery slots, the company not going into default etc etc).
    Hope that helps (HTH).

    Oct 20th, 2014 - 09:10 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • lsolde

    @131 ilsen,
    You could make a career writing children's adventure stories. Very good!
    @127 malen,
    To defeat your enemy, malen, you have to realise how they think.
    And also to observe the way that they talk & look at the world.
    Malvinistas will always be our bitter foes.

    Oct 20th, 2014 - 09:17 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Ekeko

    @128 to @132

    And that encapsulates the whole premise of this argument.

    It's a piss rip and that's all it is. No substance given from the malvanistas.

    Spike Milligan would be proud.

    I salute you all.

    Oct 20th, 2014 - 09:30 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • HansNiesund

    @131

    Twenty five years is one thing, but how many legs on delivery? I'm not looking for any of those Sc0ttish two-legged things, horn or no horn.

    http://www.discoverglasgow.org/statues-lobey-dosser/4572885054

    Oct 20th, 2014 - 09:33 pm - Link - Report abuse 0

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