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Argentina hopes to renew air power following Brazil's deal to manufacture Gripen fighter jets

Wednesday, October 29th 2014 - 05:27 UTC
Full article 145 comments

Brazilian media has confirmed that Argentina is probing to join with Brazil in the procurement of 24 Saab Gripen NG fighters, following the recently signed bilateral cooperation agreement under the heading of “Aeronautic industry strategic alliance” (AEIA), which was discussed this month by the two countries defense ministers. Read full article


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  • Englander

    Hopefully the UK will take note of this deal and ensure with the Swedish Government that technology transfers to Brazil are limited. Once Argentina has these planes they will present a significant threat which will need to be addressed.

    Oct 29th, 2014 - 06:36 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • zathras

    Shall we cry “Militarization the South Atlantic”.

    After all that's what the Argies do whenever any military deployment to the Falklands takes place.

    Remember the only reason for British military forces in the Falklands is to DEFEND the islands.

    Oct 29th, 2014 - 08:14 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • brasherboot

    if the U.S.—the U.K.’s closest ally—so chooses, it could more or less cancel Brazil’s proposed Gripen sale to Argentina. Indeed, London has repeatedly leaned on its allies not to sell jet fighters to Buenos Aires.

    In the past couple of years, Great Britain has diplomatically defeated Argentina’s attempt to buy used Mirage F.1 fighters from Spain as well as the Latin American country’s proposal to hire a French company to upgrade Argentine Super Etendard attack planes.

    Argentina has been in talks to acquire mothballed Kfir fighters from Israel, but like the Gripens these jets have American engines, thus giving the U.K. a wedge to block any transfer.

    I refer to this article

    Oct 29th, 2014 - 08:41 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Vestige

    Ladies please.
    Maybe not today. Maybe not tomorrow. But soon and for the rest of your life.

    Oct 29th, 2014 - 10:47 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • macsilvinho

    Argentina will buy uses Zimbabwe fighter jets with their economy in shambles and Zim and Haiti are probably the only country willing to give credit to Buenos Aires.

    Oct 29th, 2014 - 11:04 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ChrisR

    Without a doubt the best thing TMBOA has done for the Falklands was to cripple the armed forces of TDC purely to eliminate the chances of a military coup against her.

    Even when they were up to strength numbers wise, they still had the major problem of ineffective leadership and a failure to train to deal with. And that is without the lack of backbone necessary to fight and win, a problem within TDC at all levels it seems.

    Britain of course is not without its problems. Camoron is a coward, plain and simple. We need a leader with The Blessed Margaret’s strength of character to tackle the difficult problems without bleating and whining like a wimp.

    The best thing we could do to make Camoron ‘fit in’ is to ship him off to TDC and have him made Defence Minister. I say this as a lifelong Conservative voter.

    Oct 29th, 2014 - 11:25 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Condorito

    Argentina piggy-backing on Brasil.
    It must make the isolationists unhappy.

    Oct 29th, 2014 - 12:19 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • FI_Frost

    Meh. Its expected, like any country, Argentina will at some point upgrade its aging fighter fleet; paying and maintaining it is another matter. Also to be expected is it may nuisance FIG sovereign airspace - just like Spain at the moment (but never that close). Seriously provoking a standoff or worse though is waaay, way off in the future.

    Oct 29th, 2014 - 12:52 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • yankeeboy

    Argentina can't afford jet fuel.
    I don't see that changing anytime in the near future.
    That's mainly why they can't train. I think most of their pilots are uncertified at this point.

    Oct 29th, 2014 - 12:57 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Pete Bog

    If the Gripens get more than two tankers to use they could be a threat to MPA providing there are no T45s in place.

    However, even if the USA refuse an embargo on the GE 414 engines that power the Gripen, and they are based down South, it will merely give the UK the excuse to base a couple of Tornado GR4s equipped with Storm Shadow to take out the nearest Argy airfields/hangars, and more Typhoons to deal with the increased threat.

    This is forgetting Rapier batteries, and troops strategically placed with handheld G-A missiles.

    Also it won't take long for a sub to get to the South Atlantic and start using Cruise missiles to take out airfields and splash any ships if the Argies send ships

    So I foresee that the Gripens will be based around BA if there are only 20 of them.

    ”Our willingness to cooperate with Argentina, our neighbor and ally, is total,”

    Wonder how 'total' that will be when Argentina asks for 20 years to pay for them and the money never arrives?

    Oct 29th, 2014 - 01:51 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • psql

    Are you going to live like this for ever? They come, they come not, they come, they can not...
    Sweet dreams

    Oct 29th, 2014 - 04:00 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Anbar

    lets be honest here: even if Argentina could afford to buy them (which they probably cant) they have neither the tech-savy or personnel or short (or long) term capability to support & maintain the aircraft with parts...

    Neither do they have the pilots... and even if they did, they cant afford to give them enough flying hours to keep them competent.

    Its a common trick of out going governments to spend on military, as it makes their following government appear weak if they cancel the contracts... if they dont cancel them then they get stuck with an expensive white elephant.

    is this action or anything else by Argentina a military threat toward stability in the region? of course it is... its obvious militarization of the South Atlantic, directly contrary to TMBOAs promises... but its not a tangible, realistic threat against the massed 2.1 million nuclear armed penguins of the Falklands Islands....

    I mean, c'mon, those nuclear penguins are Nasty...

    Oct 29th, 2014 - 07:07 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Briton

    Argie bloggers are very quiet,
    perhaps nothing to say,,
    still, read this and sleep easy..

    It Took a While, but Brazil’s Finally Getting a New Fighter

    Gripen NG deal took decades
    Gripen Fighters Won’t Save the Argentine Air Force

    Buenos Aires has bigger air power problems

    Oct 29th, 2014 - 07:54 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Brasileiro

    The Gripen NG BR is very different from the Gripen. The Gripen NG BR is still under development. It will not use any technology capable of blocking by Western.
    The Gripen NG BR can take off and land on aircraft carriers. The original Gripen can not do that.

    Oct 29th, 2014 - 08:09 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Voice

    I have no faith in the Swedes to deliver...
    For over a year I've been asking IKEA Glasgow...“Where are the candy Swedish Fish that used to be in the food section..?”
    I only ever called in for the Swedish Fish as the furniture is crap.....
    ...and I always get lost in there...
    ...and why TF do they display these names....

    Oct 29th, 2014 - 08:13 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Briton

    Well, WHAT IF.....

    What if the British did withdraw all its military , army , navy , air force, just to please and placate the argentines,,,

    the British have now gone,
    the islanders are living in total peace,
    what do you think will happen,

    Even in your wildest dreams, what do you think Argentina will do,
    1, respect the islanders peace and tranquillity,

    2, some how, some time, pay them a visit,

    if one is stupid enough to believe what the argentine government promises,
    that one truly deserved what one would get,

    the question is then
    1, are we that stupid,
    2, is Argentina that clever,

    your choice.. be

    Oct 29th, 2014 - 08:39 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • JuanGabriel

    @14 you are making stuff up. The Gripen NG is not currently carrier capable. Saab has done design work on it (funnily enough they set up the design office in the UK as they decided that was the best place)

    - see
    This is SAAB talking about the design centre they set up in the Uk to design the Sea Gripen, and also talks about the UK content of Gripen (up to 36% including major systems like the Radar).

    They have since said after this work it would take $250m and 5 years to go from the current stage to deliveries. There is no mention of this in the Brasilian deal although it is a possibility down the track.

    The development work in the Brasil deal is for the 2 seater, which Sweden doesn't want for its own Air Force. SAAB and Brasil will jointly develop it, build it, then any 2 seater orders from other nations will provide royalties for Brasil/be built in Brasil.

    Oct 29th, 2014 - 09:21 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Brasileiro

    @17 You see things from the Western viewpoint.

    Do you had access to some inside information?

    Did you read the contract signed between the Brazilian government, the Swedish government, Saab and Embraer?

    Could you tell me why there was a substantial increase in the value of the contract?

    More One Western!

    Oct 29th, 2014 - 09:41 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Clyde15

    A couple of points. Who is going to supply the engine and the ejector seats ?
    Is Brazil going to develop and produce it's own designs and manufacture indigenous products using it's own technology. Something that seems to have defeated China. SAAB can transfer THEIR technology but NOT technology bought in from other sources as they do not have the right to transfer licensing agreements.
    Have you any information about this.

    Oct 29th, 2014 - 10:22 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Hernán

    The best news this year. Alliance with Brazil, brother country, in search of industrial development, and at the same time, hope for renewal of our glorious FUERZA AEREA ARGENTINA AND A TRIBUTE TO OUR PILOTS DE MALVINAS.

    As we currently do in haiti and cyprus, cyprus Argentine squad is under the command of an English colonel, in case you did not know.



    Oct 29th, 2014 - 10:31 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Briton

    It aint yours,
    never was, never will be,
    so you guys and pray all you like, the only thing you will ever get is a headache.

    Oct 29th, 2014 - 10:45 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Brasileiro

    Indigenous technology? I do not understand? Could you be more specific?

    I think if someone really wants a sensible answer, that person should be minimally educated to know ask. Do not you think?

    Oct 29th, 2014 - 10:58 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Leiard


    Shouting does not make your the Falkland Islands yours.

    Oct 29th, 2014 - 11:02 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • HansNiesund


    When the only case you have is UPPER CASE ......

    Oct 29th, 2014 - 11:25 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Captain Poppy

    Is it me or has anyone else notice brassie's grammar lapse? Bad trolls today?

    Oct 30th, 2014 - 12:22 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Voice

    Yeah, but can they do this....

    Oct 30th, 2014 - 12:28 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Englander

    4 Argentina may well return to a Military Government in the future. Fascism is entrenched in Argentina and it will take many decades for the danger to pass. Rebuilding the Air Force is a necessary step for the Militarists ambitions but the crucial element will be the Army.

    Oct 30th, 2014 - 08:41 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Britworker

    Do we really care what they buy, ffs 20 Gripen jets, once they are gone, they are gone! will it take another 30 years to replace them.

    If the threat increases, then so does the response and we we have one hell of a response to make. Argentina and Brazil do not have air supremacy when a T45 is in the south atlantic

    Oct 30th, 2014 - 10:04 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Clyde15

    I agree totally with your statement. You need a minimum education, which in your use and understanding of English is woefully lacking..
    YOU SAID AT #14
    “ It will not use any technology capable of blocking by Western.”

    The indigenous products refers to the DESIGN and MANUFACTURE of engines and ejector seats PURELY in Brazil with NO help or input from outside Brazil.
    I hope that this clarifies it for you OR to simplify it for you as follows.
    Brazil is saying that they are going to take over the design and manufacture of the Gripen and take it some steps further with all in-house updates.
    I am saying that to fulfill this brief, they will need an engine and ejector seats.
    They will have to purchase these from the USA/Sweden in the case of the engine and from the UK in the case of ejector seats. To set up an engine design team and a manufacturing plant would be an astronomical cost and make the unit price of the aircraft more expensive than an F-22.
    The US and the UK could revoke the licensing agreements with SAAB IF they supplied aircraft to Argentina.
    All this is hypothetical at present as the aircraft is years away - if it is ever successfully built.

    Oct 30th, 2014 - 10:05 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Brasileiro

    It's like I said. Brazil will not submit to the yoke of the Western. We have global consumer market through our strategic alliances that will compensate the necessary investments for the development of new capabilities and technologies.

    We will do the possible and the impossible to project success. And sell our aircraft to where we want to whomever we choose. Make good use of their seats!

    Oct 30th, 2014 - 10:40 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Gremlin

    Um, building something like a jet fighter engine is not a simple process that can be achieved through force of will. It is a slow, immensely complex piece of design and development- rushing it results in things exploding. It will take years for Brazil to get the kind of design basics in place for a viable prototype, even longer to work out the kinks.

    Now, it's possible they will copy an existing design- they might be able to get something from the Russians, for example, but integrating it still won't be a quick and easy job. It will also require significant sums of cash to pull off, and that will be an issue too.

    Weapons development is a deep pockets investment- it takes years to reach a viable product and the production to make it viable for sale and even then you need to build up both a reputation for competence and reliability before you can actually sell enough to break even, let alone turn a profit. The US and other major existing suppliers at least have substantial domestic markets that defray the cost, along with long-standing client bases. Brazil has neither of these things, and adding in Argentina won't help either case much.

    Keep in mind that arms manufacturing is a cut-throat business with a lot of established sellers out there already. Each has established decades old client relationships, treaties, reputations and factory complexes. Against this built in advantage 'strategic alliances' aren't much use.

    Oct 30th, 2014 - 12:24 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Captain Poppy

    Seems that Brasileiro 2.1 is a better writer in English than the previous version 2.0

    Oct 30th, 2014 - 01:11 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • yankeeboy

    30. Can you give me an example of a country that does well over the long term when they go against the USA?
    Just one would be sufficient.
    Go ahead...we're waiting.

    Oct 30th, 2014 - 01:38 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Anbar

    @33 hey, if there's a WW3, will the USA turn up half-way through or right at the end to claim the glory?

    Oct 30th, 2014 - 02:20 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • yankeeboy

    34. I guess that depends on who is begging us and what we get out of it.

    Oct 30th, 2014 - 02:23 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • golfcronie

    Have you not seen the movies? John Wayne won WW11 for Europe.

    Oct 30th, 2014 - 02:29 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Clyde15

    I presume that whatever version of Brasileiro you are, you understood my post at #29
    I appreciate that you are patriotic but your post indicates you do not have a clue about what would be involved in this case.
    Because you want it to happen does not make it so. Other more technically proficient countries have failed to produce a viable modern combat aircraft - and especially an engine. Hardly any country can produce a modern combat aircraft using nothing but their own resources . Brazil will find this out if they think that they cam go it alone. Anyway, SAAB is supplying them with a technology transfer.
    Hardly a Brazilian go - it - alone policy !!!

    Oct 30th, 2014 - 02:41 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • aussiesunshinee

    another deal which the USA has lost!!

    Oct 30th, 2014 - 03:13 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Captain Poppy

    Anbar ask any European, they did not need the USA so why jump into a war where you are not needed?

    Oct 30th, 2014 - 03:32 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • LEPRecon

    Q. Does Argentina have the money to actually INVEST in the development of these aircraft with Brazil?

    A. No.

    Q. Will Argentina abide by any agreement or treaty made with Brazil over these aircraft?

    A. No.

    So regardless of whether Brazil develops these aircraft or not Argentina won't be getting their hands on them because Brazil knows that Argentina has designs on Brazilian territory, and the lefty lunatics won't be in charge of Brazil forever. Certainly not by the time the 1st prototype is produced.

    So this is another 'all mouth and no trousers' statement from Argentina.

    Oct 30th, 2014 - 04:27 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • yankeeboy

    40. Bullet train to Rosario, Rail Tunnel to Chile etc etc etc

    Don't hold your breath.

    Maybe if they could afford Jet Fuel for training I'd be worried.
    I doubt they'll be able to swing that for another decade.

    Oct 30th, 2014 - 04:34 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • HansNiesund

    So once again a new Saviour comes galloping to Argentina's rescue and this time it's Brazil, with 24 aeroplanes tacked onto their order, and the promise of another Peronist vanity project.

    Oct 30th, 2014 - 05:00 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Clyde15

    A MOD contract to update and sustain military air traffic management
    AQUILA, a joint venture between Thales and NATS, has been awarded the £1.5 billion contract, which is expected to save the taxpayer up to £1 billion over the next 22 years.

    Starting next year, the programme will see approximately 70 contracts merged into one and will cover the operation of more than 60 MOD sites in the UK and overseas, including in Cyprus, Gibraltar, Falkland Islands and Ascension Island
    .This significant investment will ensure we have an advanced and secure service at MOD sites in the UK and abroad, and will support deployed UK and coalition forces worldwide.
    I think they will see the Gripen coming !!

    Oct 30th, 2014 - 05:18 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ChrisR

    @ 43 Clyde15

    I don’t often disagree with you, BUT (there’s always one) when has Thales ever made good on a contract, any contract?

    60 MoD sites. That is going to change and the MoD are useless at forecasting change.

    I wish I had more confidence about this. It just looks like another MoD disaster in waiting.

    Oct 30th, 2014 - 07:30 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Clyde15

    Could be this time !

    Oct 30th, 2014 - 08:01 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Briton

    At the end of the day,
    we brits spend billions on defence,

    just what does Argentina expect to achieve spending a few million on hers,

    a few rowing boats ,lol

    Oct 30th, 2014 - 08:07 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • toooldtodieyoung

    “Our willingness to cooperate with Argentina, our neighbor and ally, is total,” said Brazilian Defense Minister Celso Amorim.

    There IS going to come a time when he will have wished he choked on those words..............

    Oct 30th, 2014 - 09:29 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • GeoffWard2

    “Our willingness to cooperate with Argentina, our neighbour and ally, is total.” ”The association with Argentina is fundamental, the most strategic of all alliances”.
    (Brazil's Defence Minister, Celso Amorim)

    Mr. Amorim *a former foreign minister and an experienced and acknowledged diplomat*

    Amorim says the AEIA agreement is 'doubly strategic':
    i. cooperation in defence
    ii. the airspace industry ... also:
    building frigates, corvettes and river patrol boats,
    ... well, perhaps.

    Amorim is a ridiculous, politically naive, self-delusive, rabidly Left-wing party hack.
    If he believes Argentina has the skills, the talents, the research base, and the high-technology industry to contribute - even as a very junior partner - to First World technologies and systems, he is absolutely deluded.

    This is a strictly 'political' statement for the consumption of needy Argentinian leaders.

    Oct 30th, 2014 - 10:11 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Alberto Bertorelli

    The problem with Argentina is not fascism. Argentina once ranked proudly alongside Canada and Australia, but then came the boat loads of unchecked migrants from Spain, Italy and Russia and the rot set in. And among the migrants came thousands of fully fledged anarchist-communists wanting a revolution, and the nation soon witnessed the attempted assassination of Argentine President José Figueroa Alcorta in 1908, the 1909 May Day bloodbath, the murder of the Buenos Aires police chief ( Ramón Falcón), the bombing of the main threatre in Buenos Aires, a similar attempt made on the main cathedral, an attempt made on the life of Argentine President Victorino de la Plaza in 1916, violent strikes that paralized the Argentine economy in 1918. A large part of Buenos Aires was burnt to the ground in January 1919 when the anarchist-communists, baying for more blood (after shooting dead a police sergeant) set buildings on fire and tried to raid police armouries. The anarchist-communists continued with their strikes, killings, bombings (including the rape and murder of European settlers in Patagonia in the early 1920s during an armed uprksing in 1921), and made a further attempt at killing a President, this time Hipólito Yrigoyen. All this violence gradually came to an end when General José Félix Uriburu carried out Argentina's first military coup on September 6, 1930, in response to all the violence. (Source: Wikipedia)

    Oct 31st, 2014 - 12:08 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • US Air Force

    46 - Brit: last gasps of a dying empire. Last cents of an empty coffer. No indigenous natural resources, no method of adequately meeting its own food needs and a serious schism of religion within its own borders.

    Oct 31st, 2014 - 12:52 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • GeoffWard2

    I seem to remember the British Empire being built on coal and steel - didn't Britain build 'half the industrialised world' including the South American railway system?
    And now, 'indigenous' oil and gas supports the national economy - with much more available once fracking starts to take hold.
    'Indigenous food'? I see 90% of the landmass covered by farms.
    'Religious schism'? Do YOU actually feel the need to have gods? No? Well neither do the vast majority of British people.

    I realise that you are trolling, but do try to do it a little better

    Oct 31st, 2014 - 09:08 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Clyde15

    In case you had not noticed or are just plain ignorant, Britain's “Empire” died decades ago whereas Argentina is still trying to acquire one.
    It's YOUR country which is disappearing down the plughole, not ours.

    Oct 31st, 2014 - 09:23 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Livingthedream

    @52 Hey we bailed you out in WW2 buddy If it wasn't for us you Brits would be speaking German and eating Sauerkraut sandwiches right now

    Oct 31st, 2014 - 12:37 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Captain Poppy

    sounds like an RG trying to create a schizm good luck with that 53. No American or Brit is going to bit on your tainted bait.

    Oct 31st, 2014 - 12:51 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Martin Woodhead

    Tbf argentina is running out of places it can buy fighter jets from

    Oct 31st, 2014 - 02:20 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • US Air Force

    52 - When WWII kicked off the US had but about 300 aircraft, 3 divisions was trying to stay out of , YET, another European war, because as usual ole Hans Stuka and Vladimir Commie were trying to dominate the scene.

    You UKrs should really count the number of US bases that we have in your country. They are not there for our protection, it's yours. Unless you disagree Komraden Klyde?

    Somehow, I doubt, Argentina will start an empire with two basically desolated barren islands with more sheep than people.

    Oct 31st, 2014 - 03:09 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Clyde15

    The number of USAF air bases in Britain.
    At the last count there were three that I could think of.
    Mildenhall home for tanker refueling aircraft and transiting aircraft.
    Lakenheath with F15c and F15E
    Fairford used for refueling and deployments.
    I certainly disagree. The bases are for American protection.
    If you cast your memory back to El Dorado Canyon where the UK allowed the use of Lakenheath and Upper Heyford F-111'S to mount an attack on Libya. There was no UK involvement in this apart from giving permission to use the bases and airspace. Purely an American revenge attack for THEIR benefit.
    Likewise, anything the American military have here is because they would rather the fighting took place OUTSIDE US territory .
    Yes, America is a good ally but we seem to give more than we get in return.

    The Falklands would be a start, then Uruguay, a chunk of Paraguay and the bottom part of S.A. now in Chile....they have had designs on this for decades.

    Oct 31st, 2014 - 04:17 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • GeoffWard2

    #53, 56,
    Bailed out? If Lend Lease means 'bailed out'. To the Brits it meant an overwhelming debt to be paid back (the UK is still paying back £2 billion from WW1!) The Anglo-American Loan was paid back in 2006. Payment in kind was transferred to the USA by technology transfer of radar, sonar, jet engines, nuclear weapons, antitank weaponry, rockets, superchargers, gyroscopic gunsights, submarine detection, self-sealing fuel tanks, and plastic explosives (Wiki).
    Along with appropriations from defeated Germany - which underpinned the 'Space Race' and created M.A.D. - the Americans came out of the WWII with a very good deal indeed.

    Correction: WWII end - Western Europe would now be uniformally speaking Russian, not German.
    US entered the war too late, only when Japan forced it to.
    The USA would have had to have dropped atom bombs across Europe to turn back the Russian tide. It would not have happened; the USA did not have the strength of mind to push back Russia.

    Cairncross, Fuchs, Hall, Gold, Greenglass and the Rosenbergs would have been too late.

    Do you REALLY think the US bases in Europe were put there to defend Europe??? Come on, lad; think clearly.

    Oct 31st, 2014 - 04:26 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Briton

    you know not much,
    I think you will find,
    the uk have had more British troops and air force training on American soil, than American's on British soil, in the last ten years,
    things have slightly change around,
    besides this is not abt the USA against Britain, so your bluster and cheep cracks are basically ignored on here,

    Argentina is the subject,
    and she is not even in the top 29 powerful militaries in the world,
    she is going down.

    Oct 31st, 2014 - 08:31 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Captain Poppy

    Briton I would not bother arguing with an Argentine commie posing as an American Airmen. His military knowledge is dependent on what can be googled. I am positive he He's only trying to create a schism. I do have to say though in pretending to be an American moved his his integrity up 20 fold.

    Oct 31st, 2014 - 08:47 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ChrisR

    Well I can tell you guys, that everything in TDC is OK.

    TMBOA has told a business conference that the economy is NOT in default, they have funds to last and this doom saying must stop! “ARGENTINA IS NOT IN CRISIS” she scweemed and scweemed.


    USA in extreme danger!

    TMBOA, in a letter, urges Obama to explain whether US official Nancy Soderberg is also Co-Chair of AFTA vulture lobbying group.
    “In a harsh letter, President Cristina Fernández de Kirchner today urged US President Barack Obama to explain whether ”Nancy Soderberg, the person you have appointed as Chair of the Public Interest Declassification Board (PIDB), which reports directly to the Government of the United States of America, is also the Co-Chair of the American Task Force Argentina (ATFA), an entity specifically created to attack and slander the Argentine Republic and its President.“

    “Relations between our governments would also suffer if ATFA’s Nancy Soderberg were the same person advising you on national security affairs, as Elliott Management Corp. manages the vulture fund NML Capital, which is also domiciled in the Cayman Islands and has led an international judicial harassment campaign against my country,” the president warned.”

    “The president added that if this was confirmed “it would have grave implications for relations between our two countries.”

    I think we should all take this threat for what it is and show our feelings in a genuine way. I certainly am.

    Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha.

    Oct 31st, 2014 - 09:53 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Briton

    ha ha ha

    Nov 01st, 2014 - 12:33 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Anbar

    “”“Have you not seen the movies? John Wayne won WW11 for Europe.”“”

    and WW2 started at the end of '41 right...?

    Frankly, Obama is such a monumental wet lettuce he'll probably cave in to her... after X months of useless deliberating and ineffective speech making... then he'll remember Americas true enemy ... the UK! cox wonce upon a twime they were meen to his grandpappy

    then again, credit wheres it due - he got a noble peace prize for doing absolutely nothing whatsoever (and then started assassinating people in other countries sovereign territory...oh lookie - the USA changed the rules to suit themselves again!!!)

    Underlying all this is the fact that the Untrustworthy States of America is nothing more than a money making scheme whose outer wrappings hide horrible internal decay and double standards.... and its reps~ on thsi forum think its somehow a shining beacon of light to which every other nation should aspire....

    its a joke.... its all a joke.... (said the Comedian)

    Nov 01st, 2014 - 01:44 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • US Air Force

    Let me straighten you Brits and towelheads up-
    Here is a quick rundown of your pathetic view of Americans:

    WWII without the US and Russia would have the world speaking German.
    WWII without the US would have the Chinese speaking Japanese.
    The Cold War without the US would have the world speaking Russian.
    The UK fought two wars against the US, and lost.
    The UK is so poor that they have no remaining Aircraft carriers and cannot produce the Harrier anymore.
    The UK is dependent on the US from continued Russian Imperial designs.
    The US has 20 naval carriers.

    And yes Brits, we most definitely bailed you were on the ropes during the Battle of Britain and would succumbed having given Krauts Stukas more time to advance on some of their pet projects such as the ME260 and jet engines on Arado bombers. Winston Churchill supposedly did a dance when the US got in the war.

    Anbar al Hussein, the US does not engage in lopping off heads for Allah.
    Christians and Catholics long ago gave up any crusades and killing in the name of Allah - so much for your religion of peace. Anbar, what would your fellow Sunnis or Shiites do with American military power? You think think that the Muslim and his religion of peace would not utilize on the infidels...this is a war between good and people are right up there on the Kraut list.

    Clyde/Geoff, I don't think the 'US made out' like you think. That terminology is pretty sick actually. I think that the US would have been more than happy to keep half a million of its sons, fathers and brothers at home, instead of dead on yet ANOTHER stupid EUROPEAN WAR. Last time I checked the Manhattan Project was completed in New Mexico. As a matter of fact Clyde, you Europeans are bracing for another showdown with the Russians again. You Europeans suck. You don't see this in LATAM do you?????

    ok - off my high horse. just happy to rattle some nerves.

    Nov 01st, 2014 - 02:31 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Heisenbergcontext


    I can't imagine an actual representative of the U.S. armed forces writing such sloppy nonsense.

    Britain survived the Battle of Britain without official American assistance ( though some brave young Americans volunteered ). They did so with a mixture of nerve, skill, superior aircraft than the U.S. had at it's disposal, radar - which the U.S. also didn't have - and excellent intelligence.

    For that matter Britain had far superior intelligence, and experience in espionage, than their friends ( I use the term advisedly ) across the water, with the exception of American trade intelligence, which was exceptional. Which the U.S. was happy to take advantage of.

    It was Hitler who declared war on the U.S. - one of the dumbest things he ever dd - after the U.S. did the same to Japan, leaving Roosevelt little choice, but is there any doubt the U.S. would've eventually had to fight Germany anyway?

    Part of the reason why a second world war took place was because of how punitive the punishments inflicted on Germany were. The insistence of the severity of these reparations was led by France and...the U.S.

    As to Japan - you do realise how the U.S. chose to open trade negotiations with them don't you? In 1852 the U.S. sailed into a a Japanese harbour and threatened to shell Tokyo unless they were willing to trade with them. The Japanese, who only wished to be left alone, had no choice but to accede, their city being largely constructed of wood. If you don't believe this humiliation wasn't a factor in the Pearl Harbour attack...well you do the math.

    Yes, Europe, and much of the world has reason to be grateful for America's contribution to the war. It's interesting you choose to interpret this in such negative light when this contribution generated more good will for the U.S.than anything it did before and since, and resonated for decades. Right up until Vietnam in fact...

    Nov 01st, 2014 - 04:07 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • US Air Force

    Heisenburg - hmmm...must be the difference in the way history is perceived. The Battle of Britain was being won by the Germans and the UK was running out of pilots, had to start using the Poles and novice trainees until the Genocidal Krauts started to bomb London in earnest. You Brits paint history in a weird light, forget when convenient and even have contradictory lapses in imagination in history..I bet you didn't even know that it was the famous Winston Churchill that let the Lusitannia sink on purpose to get the US in WWI.

    I see your salvo at Vietnam - Just exactly who provided the UK with intelligence in 1982? Who stopped Slobodan Milosovic? and stopped the Iron Curtain from engulfing the Western half of Europe? who has been keeping retarded Hajis from blowing up half the world?

    Could you explain something to me - why is it that the Europeans are always at each other about every 30 to 50 years in incessant warfare??? LATAM and North America don't sit there and wage war against each other- There has not been a major conflict between LATAM countries for a very long time, around over 2 hundred years whereas you arrogant f'kheads are always waging war over some stupid idea or another. Look at ole Britches Thatcher, ready to use nuclear weapons over two measly islands, that is arrogance -

    This is not an academic venue. sloppy writing reigns supreme. look at the pot calling the kettle black.

    Nov 01st, 2014 - 06:29 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • HansNiesund


    “This is not an academic venue. sloppy writing reigns supreme.”

    Indeed it does.

    “look at the pot calling the kettle black.”

    Here, for example.

    Nov 01st, 2014 - 08:51 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Heisenbergcontext


    Yep, Britain was indeed running out of pilots, but they still won the Battle of Britain didn't they? Which was my point, in case it slipped your mind. Oh, and those Poles were superb pilots, and highly motivated - it would've have stupid NOT to use them.

    Yes, it's possible Churchill set The Lusitania up to be torpedoed, which if true, was truly cynical - but what relevance does that have exactly? Do you think that that alone proves the British are all bad and your people ( whomever they might be ) are all good?

    Yes, the US - and Norway - provided Britain with intelligence during the Falklands War. Much appreciated, particularly when you consider the Junta was your ally during your Central American adventures ( El Salvador, Nicaragua, death squads - ringing any bells? ).

    I wouldn't call my reference to Vietnam a salvo - merely an acknowledgement of reality. Yes, the US ( and NATO ) stopped Milosovic. Thanks for that - the relevance being?

    Yes, the Marshall Plan was instrumental in stopping the growth of communism in countries like Italy - so? Are you going to argue this was an act of unadulterated altruism? 'Cause I'd love to have that debate... can't always be at each other “...every 30 - 50 years in incessant warfare.” If it was every 30 - 50 years ( btw, make up your mind: is it 30 or 50? ) it wouldn't be incessant would it? And just how many wars has the U.S. been involved with in that period of time?

    In any case it would take a lot more warfare casualties for Europe to catch up to the U.S.'s level of firearm homicides. To wit: Atlanta has a higher rate than the whole of South Africa.LA? Higher than The Philippines.DC? Higher than Brazil.

    Oh, and Thatcher was never going to use nukes on Argentina. Only an idiot would believe otherwise.

    Nov 01st, 2014 - 10:04 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • GeoffWard2

    I agree, the Brits did help you.

    Tony Blair told the UN bald-faced lies so that you were able to keep up your forever-wars. You must have been so proud of your special friend, that he destroyed the integrity of his own nation to allow you to go to war again.

    Nov 01st, 2014 - 11:05 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Clyde15

    Where to begin.........
    Your summation of the Battle of Britain is flawed. Yes, it was a close run thing BUT the Germans were badly mauled and recent published research showed that they could not have kept up this onslaught as they were running out of serviceable aircraft and crews. A tactical victory for Britain.
    For someone purporting to be in the USAF your knowledge of aircraft is sorely lacking .
    For instance, what was an ME 260 ...NEVER HEARD OF IT.
    Please supply pictures and details of same.
    “ cannot produce the Harrier anymore.”
    Why should we build an aircraft which was designed 50 years ago and had reached the end of it's development life. ?
    We are major stakeholders in the F35 programme which will be the backbone of US and NATO aircraft for decades.

    “Last time I checked the Manhattan Project was completed in New Mexico. ”
    Yes, quite correct and I presume that your inference was that it was a 100% American project. Look at the facts. It was an international project with scientists from many countries. Many of the US scientists had in fact been born in Europe and become naturalised US citizens, so the US can claim them.

    As to Churchill being involved in the sinking of the Lusitania do you have definite proof of this. If so could you direct me to it ? Or is it just a convenient piece of conjecture to back up your obvious dislike of the British, from a Latino viewpoint.

    I won't waste my time refuting your other prejudices which I believe have been answered at #67 and #68

    Clyde/Geoff, I don't think the 'US made out' like you think. That terminology is pretty sick actually.
    Where did I use that expression ? Could you supply me with the reference.

    Nov 01st, 2014 - 11:35 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Troy Tempest



    Our US posters and many others are quite convinced of that.

    His sole purpose is to be DIVISIVE AND PROVOCATIVE.

    He has lied about being a U.S. Serviceman.

    His speech, use of slang, and spellings do not match that of a U.S. speaker.

    He has shown that he politically supports Argentina and Mercosur interests.

    His pats are deliberately inflammatory


    Nov 01st, 2014 - 11:44 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Think

    (68) Heisenbergcontext

    You say...:
    “Oh, and Thatcher was never going to use nukes on Argentina. Only an idiot would believe otherwise.”

    I say...:
    So, the late President of France was a lying idiot when saying to his psychiatrist ...:
    “You can’t win a struggle against the insular syndrome of an unbridled Englishwoman. To provoke a nuclear war for small islands inhabited by three sheep who are as hairy as they are frozen! Fortunately I yielded to her. Otherwise, I assure you, the metallic index finger of the lady would press the button.”
    (Rendez-vous: La psychanalyse de François Mitterrand, by Ali Magoudi)

    Nov 01st, 2014 - 12:19 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • HansNiesund


    “So, the late President of France was a lying idiot when saying to his psychiatrist”

    Not necessarily. It's also quite possible that the late President of France was wrong in his assessment, was dramatizing to his shrink, or that the shrink was telling porkies to help sell his book or whatever.

    It's such a shame that the late President is no longer around to verify what he did or didn't say. All that's left is hearsay of no value to anybody except the eager anglophobe.

    Nov 01st, 2014 - 12:51 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Captain Poppy

    USAF is as American as much as Putin is a NE Patriots fan. He cannot answer simple questions about the military nor anything in particular in the USA. His introduction to this website......I've been in every US military action from the 1990 to present. He can't even tell you his rank.

    Troy is correct and I posted this before, he is trying to create a schism between US and UK posters here.

    Nov 01st, 2014 - 01:11 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Heisenbergcontext

    @72 Think

    Given the adroitness of Francois' facility with infidelity ( i.e. he was good at deception ), his remarkable ability to be in the right political place at the right time ( from Vichy to the resistence ), his grandiosity ( admittedly de rigeur amongst French Presidents ) and the ancient enmity between Britain and France...I'm sure you can see why I might be sceptical.

    Oh, and to add to Hans post: do you really think it impossible that a client might be economical with the truth to his shrink?

    Nov 01st, 2014 - 01:48 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Think

    Turnip at (73) says...:
    “All that's left is hearsay of no value to anybody except the eager Anglophobe.”
    I say...:
    Besides all them 1982 War files in the Foreign & Colonial Office that WEREN'T released under the Engrish “30-Year Access Rule” in 2012...
    They got 30 more years of “Closure Period”, I reckon....
    For reasons unknown...

    (75) Heisenbergcontext
    You say...:
    “Do you really think it impossible that a client might be economical with the truth to his shrink?”
    I say...:
    Of course not, lad, but... the whole point of investing ones time and money on a shrink is to be NOT economical with the truth...

    Nov 01st, 2014 - 02:14 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Heisenbergcontext

    @76 Think

    “...the whole point of investing ones time and money on a shrink is to be NOT economical with the truth...”

    Depends. People visit shrinks for all kinds of reasons. People don't necessarily leave their ego's at the door just because the relationship might benefit from them doing just that.

    Nov 01st, 2014 - 02:35 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • HansNiesund


    If there's anything weaker than hearsay, it's supposition. But it's all grist to the mill for the eager anglophobe. Did you know that the Roswell UFO was actually shot down by the RAF? There are no public files on that either.

    Ad of course, all shrinks are blessed with transparent honesty and 100% perfect recall.

    Nov 01st, 2014 - 02:43 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Think

    (77) Heisenbergcontext

    Now we are talking, lad...
    Quite a difference from your bombastic...: “Only an idiot would believe otherwise” at comment (68)
    Time's up

    Nov 01st, 2014 - 03:07 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Heisenbergcontext

    @79 Think

    Bombastic? Me? Never!

    Nov 01st, 2014 - 03:44 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Philippe

    Brazil beware! Because: 1) Argentina is totally unreliable; 2) Argentina is not solvent;
    3) Argentina does not pay debts.
    The last thing Brazil needs is to sink in Argentina's bureaucratic quicksands.


    Nov 01st, 2014 - 06:28 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Troy Tempest

    And, what will Argentina do with new fighter jets if they could ever satisfy BRAZIL that they can pay for them in some way.

    A few years off, surely Argentina will be even further in the toilet economically by then.

    Military confrontations??
    With who, Chile, Uruguay, Paraguay???

    Who else is left??

    Nov 01st, 2014 - 07:04 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Briton

    You argies get more and more brainwashed on here every day..

    Nov 01st, 2014 - 07:14 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ilsen

    US Air Force is Stevie.

    Can we just leave it now?

    I thought this was about Argentina trying to acquire some new aircraft and militarise the South Atlantic?

    Nov 01st, 2014 - 09:16 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Anglotino

    So what we have learnt from this thread is....

    The UK kicked Argentina's arse WITHOUT nuclear bombs back in 1982.

    And both the a British and Americans are glad they have been on the same side for so long now. Their strengths listed by USAir Force obviously compliment those listed by everyone else.

    As the article has shown us, Argentina got Brazil.


    Nov 01st, 2014 - 10:44 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • US Air Force

    70 Clyde- ME-262, Arado 234, He 162 - ME 262 was operational and taking out USAF a/c in droves.

    BBC article:
    The warship has been working as one of the Navy’s helicopter carriers since she was stripped of her Harrier jets after the 2010 defence cuts. Britain remains without an aircraft carrier until the 65,000 ton HMS Queen Elizabeth enters service at the end of the decade.
    Hull City Council confirmed it had put in a bid to try to turn HMS Illustrious ... While its sister ships were sold for scrap, the government has indicated that Illustrious could be turned into a floating museum as a tribute to the decommissioned class of warship.
    -Clyde - why would the Brits allow the US to dictate defense manufacturing? Because your broke.

    Grey: What will America do if the Germans sink an ocean liner with American passengers on board?

    House: I believe that a flame of indignation would sweep the United States and that by itself would be sufficient to carry us into the war.

    On May 7, 1915, the Lusitania was sunk off the coast of County Cork, Ireland by a U-boat after it had slowed to await the arrival of the English escort vessel, the Juno, which was intended to escort it into the English port. The First Lord of the Admiralty, Winston Churchill, issued orders that the Juno was to return to port, and the Lusitania sat alone in the channel. Because Churchill knew of the presence of three U-boats in the vicinity, it is reasonable to presume that he had planned for the Lusitania to be sunk, and it was. 1201 people lost their lives in the sinking. - This is common knowledge Clyde.

    84 - Ilsen, hahaha....were you born that naive?? The Brits have 6 Typhoon fighters at the Malvinas just parked there. Do you actually believe that Argentina should not be procuring defense weapons when the Brits have a nuclear powered sub off its coast? Should it be illegal that this LATAM country not have any weapons....f/o

    Nov 02nd, 2014 - 01:34 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Anglotino

    Yeah Ilsen.

    How will Argentina celebrate its next defeat at the hands of the British if it doesn't have at least a token force that can be annihilated?

    You need to think like a Malvinista such as US Air Force.

    Then it all makes sense.

    Nov 02nd, 2014 - 03:10 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Troy Tempest

    86 Fake Farce

    ...yet again,playing the provocateur between the US and the UK posters.

    These are all issues hashed out years ago

    A_Farce is a FAKE according to YB and Capt Poppy, as well as others.

    He an Argentine windup artist - a sh!t

    Nov 02nd, 2014 - 03:19 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ilsen

    Letting the Argentine Government re-arm would be like letting children play with razor blades.

    Nov 02nd, 2014 - 09:17 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Captain Poppy

    Troy I think he must be the ONLY American serviceman interested more in wars of past then the one's he pretends to be involved in.


    Nov 02nd, 2014 - 02:33 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Brasileiro

    Long live Argentina!
    Brasil loves you!

    Nov 02nd, 2014 - 03:07 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • US Air Force

    Ilsen - when you stir up your little hornet's nest again, don't count on US to get involved. If the Brits whip the Argie's ass again, then they can go home an lick their wounds; while I personally believe that you Brits are wasting over 180 million dollars a year patrolling sheepfkrs and penguins.
    If the Argie's whip the Brits arse with the probable help of the Brasileros o Venezolanos; keep the Brit nukes out or you will get a quick dose of Monroe Doctrine and the Spanish flu.

    90- Poopstain - funny story for you; had a good laugh at our squadron at your expense and the other Brit posters. We laughed at how your kind thought that the US started the War of 1812. Many of us know about the Lusitania, Churchill and thought that should rank up there with Dec 7, 1942. Why don't you stop being a little Benedict Arnold and shed the red coat - traitor.

    Nov 02nd, 2014 - 03:33 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Troy Tempest

    92 A_Farce

    “ ... and thought that should rank up there with Dec 7, 1942. Why don't you stop being a little Benedict Arnold ... ”

    I bet they did laugh in your fictitious mess, what happened on December 7 1942??

    REAL Americans, especially US Servicemen, know that the Japsnese attacked Pearl Harbour in 1941 !!!

    Ha ha ha - what a goof!!

    Waiting for you to tell us it was a typo... !

    Chucklety chuckle !!!

    Nov 02nd, 2014 - 04:15 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • HansNiesund

    Next thing you know, he'll be calling someone a cipayo

    Nov 02nd, 2014 - 04:19 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Troy Tempest

    Well... sepoys ARE British... :-)

    Nov 02nd, 2014 - 04:26 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • HansNiesund

    @92 USAF

    I was kinda hoping you'd answer this on the relevant thread, but maybe you didn't see it there? I'm wondering just how the guys at your squadron feel about the letter the President of Argentina sent to the President of the United States? What do you think Obama's response should be?

    Here's the full text, in case you haven't seen it already :

    Nov 02nd, 2014 - 05:03 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Troy Tempest

    Well... Hans, good posting.
    No reply from our Farcical US Serviceman imposter.

    I guess he has no idea how to respond.

    In the meantime, I'd be interested to see if he can repeat his Pledge of Allegiance to the United States, as any boy growing up in US or any Serviceman, would remember.

    Nov 02nd, 2014 - 05:49 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Clyde15

    “their pet projects such as the ME 260 and jet” This is YOUR direct quote.
    I asked you what was an ME 260 and you did not answer.
    Instead you replied quoting the ME 262 Schwalbe. I suppose you ran to Google again to check before reposting without acknowledging your error.
    The same with your stupid comment about the Harrier-

    Clyde - why would the Brits allow the US to dictate defense manufacturing? Because your broke.
    You will have to explain that remark.

    Your squadron ? What would that be ? Enlighten us.
    You don't seem to know much about aircraft or American history.
    If you are an example of the standard required for a serviceman in the USAF, God help America !!..... but of course, you aren't.

    Nov 02nd, 2014 - 06:13 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Brasileiro

    For you, Anglos! From the Roman Empire!

    Nov 02nd, 2014 - 06:16 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Troy Tempest

    98 Clyde
    “If you are an example of the standard required for a serviceman in the USAF, God help America !!..... but of course, you aren't.”

    is an example of the standard required for an Argentine Troll

    LOL !!!

    Nov 02nd, 2014 - 06:30 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ilsen

    Can't believe US AirFarce is still posting when everyone knows he is fraud and a fake.
    Does he really think Venezuela is going to declare war on the UK in support of Argentina? Even Mas-burro Maduro is not that insane. How would they even start to attack the UK? They can only project their military power within their own borders. A T45 parked off their coast would keep them quiet.
    It is all just fantasy anyway. If Argentina or anyone else declared war on the UK they would be declaring war on NATO and therefore the USA as well.
    Laughable drivel from a so-called US Serviceman....

    Nov 02nd, 2014 - 06:56 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Captain Poppy

    96. I can hardly wait to see his response. His squardron at la campora must be pissing in their diapers. I have NEVER seen an American service man la king pride in his duties stations by bragging about his deployments when he can. And enlisted airmen always can unless they are in intelligence.......Army's G2. Of course next he will say he worked with G2
    And your clever insults like...“POOPSTAIN” Is so juvenile it's Argentine. One thing you must agree on usaf. Argentine's must be the stupiest lead society on thus We both agree on that.

    Nov 02nd, 2014 - 06:59 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ChrisR


    A Farce / Stevie / Lunatic is just struggling to assimilate himself into his new persona, just like he did with the “Engineer” and the “RSV”.

    Give him time, he will improve to the level of being abysmal: he's just crap at the moment. :o)

    Nov 02nd, 2014 - 07:28 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Anglotino

    Yeah it is only Non-English speakers that equate poppy with poop. They do it all the time on here.

    To a native English speaker, a poppy is either a flower or your granddad. I never ever heard it called poop or poopy until I came to this website. Even as a child it never crossed my mind.

    I don't care who US Air Force is. He/she is that pathetic that they had to create yet another new name to post under.

    And that is the definition of impotent.

    Nov 02nd, 2014 - 08:02 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Pete Bog

    “If the Argie's whip the Brits arse with the probable help of the Brasileros o Venezolanos”

    And all of these Latam countries have soldiers that can fight in cold conditions then?
    Big if-more likely who is going to make the money by supplying Argentina with the thousands of white flags they are going to need?

    Nov 02nd, 2014 - 08:12 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Troy Tempest

    Anglo and Pete

    Did you see @92 A_Farce

    “ ... and thought that should rank up there with Dec 7, 1942. Why don't you stop being a little Benedict Arnold ... ”

    sloppy lazy stoopid Troll, he can't even get one of the most notorious dates in the 20th Century, correct !!

    The rest of his impersonation is of the same calibre.


    The last thing BRAZIL should be doing, is re-arming their regional economic and geopolitical rival, by financing the purchase for them!

    Argentina imports more from Brazil than anywhere else.

    With the Default, how long will it be before Argentina gets behind on what they owe BRAZIL, already ???

    When China comes knocking at the door for repayment of loans to both Brazil and Argentina, who is going to get paid first when their backs are against the wall... ?

    Does Brazil never learn about Argentina???

    Nov 02nd, 2014 - 09:24 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • US Air Force

    Clyde - we here at many squadrons get a good chuckle at the Brits expense, let alone at the stories about how petty crime had their cars broken into and the crappy roads. The comment about the Harrier was a copy and paste from a BBC article....guess that is fake too? just like me? Why don't you and your Brit cohorts get on your knees now and we will leave you, then you and the Ruskies can play patti cake. Good luck with them. Clyde - what did you do for a living? where did you work? What was the name of the company? Since you already know so much about me by my callsign..enlighten?

    Nov 02nd, 2014 - 09:52 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Clyde15

    70 Clyde- ME-262, Arado 234, He 162 - ME 262 was operational and taking out USAF a/c in droves.
    I left this one out until you replied however, you have shot yourself in the foot.
    As a so-called member of the USAF, I presume that you know the history of the USAF which doubtless would be part of your initial intake training.
    The USAF did not take part in WW2, it was the U.S ARMY AIRFORCE.
    The USAF was not formed until 18 September 1947 !!!!!!!!
    You didn't even know this !!

    It shot down aircraft in droves?
    A quote from Messerschmitt Me 262 By David Baker

    “In its brightest moments, when it was used as intended, the Me 262 was the equivalent of sending the ”Three Musketeers“ against Sitting Bull at Little Big Horn. In one battle, for instance, 37 of the 262 s were scrambled against an Allied raid that consisted of 1,221 bombers and 632 fighter escorts! In their most effective performance, they cost the Allies a one percent loss.”

    Give up with this farce. You are only embarrassing yourself.

    Nov 02nd, 2014 - 10:05 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Captain Poppy

    “We here at many squadrons” need more be said? Lololololol......why not enlighten us all with one US duty station and any international duty station? Oh yeah. I forgot you're a stupid RG troll pretending.....that is why you cannot speak with details. You can't even tell us any details of any place in the

    Nov 02nd, 2014 - 11:21 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Troy Tempest

    107 A_Farce

    “Clyde - what did you do for a living? where did you work? What was the name of the company? Since you already know so much about me by my callsign..enlighten”

    Your “call sign” is Turnip.

    Calling yourself “USAF” is laughable - it means nothing.

    If you want to use your name as an identity, and a national perspective, then you have failed miserably.

    Your references and your points do not correspond with those of an American military background.

    When you can't corroborate that, we have to assume you are FAKE and therefore LYING.

    Nobody believes you, and nobody takes you seriously.

    Nov 03rd, 2014 - 12:01 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • US Air Force

    Clyde - it's pathetic among you Scots and sheep f'kers that you resort to purism and hang on tangent details to combat arguments. Cptn Benedict Poppy and TT have nothing to contribute but little more than insults...TT is worse, nothing in his background. I think he must be a broom pusher or a toilet cleaner, he must be ashamed of his occupation.

    Nov 03rd, 2014 - 03:12 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Anglotino



    Nov 03rd, 2014 - 06:04 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • HansNiesund

    @111 United States Air Force

    I guess you and the guys in the squadron must be awfully busy, what with your deliberations on the 1812 War, the sinking of the Lusitania, and car crime in the UK, but I wondered if you've yet found the time to consider the letter from the President of Argentina to the President of the United States? What kind of flowers do the guys think Obama should take with him when he goes to apologise at the G20 in Brisbane?

    Nov 03rd, 2014 - 07:49 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Troy Tempest

    113 Hans

    I bet its the talk of the 'Squadron'... LOL!!

    Nov 03rd, 2014 - 08:41 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Clyde15

    Obfuscation again. Typical Argie Troll behaviour. When caught out,resort to insults.
    For your info. my“history” has been documented on MP in previous posts from place/date of birth, schooling, job until retirement....more so than any other person who posts here.
    And you ? Nothing of any substance no rank, position/duties, units, bases employed. When you start talking about aircraft, it's obvious you know very little.
    As to arguments, I don't remember seeing any apart from the La Camporas handbook of fallacious statements about the UK.

    By the way, what is a supposed US serviceman doing on the internet at 03:12.
    Do you sleep in the squadron mess.
    The more you post your preposterous statements, the more you give yourself away. Have you participated in the time honoured Elephant Walk in the squadron mess, where was your position in the line up and what did you have to drink ?

    Nov 03rd, 2014 - 09:42 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Captain Poppy

    Has anyone a clue as to why the Argen Farce refers to me as a Benedict Arnold? lol

    They will not be a contribution in an article you post on until to verify basic questions as an American and an Airman.....or were you playing the role of an Officer?

    Nov 03rd, 2014 - 10:19 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Martin Woodhead

    Actually the battle of britian was a disaster for the germans and any invasion plan was doomed the Royal navy had more destroyers than the germans had u boats at the time. So hitlers invasion was never seriously on the cards

    Nov 03rd, 2014 - 10:34 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • HansNiesund


    If he were an Argentine Malvinista, it would just be a typical spittle-flecked instance of calling anybody who disagrees with you a traitor or a cipayo or an MI6 agent, or whatever. But since he's a US airman, it's really hard to say. Perhaps we could ask the guys in the squadron?

    Nov 03rd, 2014 - 10:56 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Captain Poppy

    He is not a US airman by any distorted stretch of anyone's imagination.

    He is not an American citizen, one must be smoking crack to believe that. I can create and identify and call myself a servant to Christina and you would believe me based on a name only? I've asked him about locations in the response. I've asked about based he served on.......domestically and response. No rank nothing. He even thought Lackland AFB was a mental health and criminal detention center. He doesn't realize the Army and USAF work hand in hand and every Army base has a USAF air field and even take over Pope AFB. He knows nothing other than what he can google. Why he will not take about bases he “served” on........there's a high probability I was on them as well.

    Nov 03rd, 2014 - 12:53 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Clyde15

    In order to invade Britain, Hitler needed mastery of the air. This he could not achieve. His Admirals warned that an invasion was impossible without it as the Kriegsmarine would not be able to achieve control of the N.Sea and Channel, so Hitler turned East to his main goal of lebensraum.
    War with Britain was not really in his plans. He had a fanciful idea that with the Royal Navy and combined Air Forces, this axis would be invincible.
    To our credit, we said NO.

    Nov 03rd, 2014 - 01:06 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • US Air Force

    Hans Hoss: your incessant responses to posts that say 'Clyde or Benedict Poppy' are annoying at best. The day I take orders or want hear from some Schutzstaffel like you about IG Farben or Zyklon B and 12 million murders I will post with your name on it, other than that buggar off, shoo fly or whatever.
    Clyde: unlike the Brits I take it, we don't work 9-5 and we don't break for tea; we fly all the time, you should take some notes.

    Nov 03rd, 2014 - 02:30 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • boufiewolf

    Stevie OK you won't supply info on your service. I'll supply some of mine then - I served in the RAF attaining the rank of LAC and served at Wittering, Halton and St Athan. I don't claim to have served in theatre as do your good self though I did know some guys that came back from Bosnia that were suffering with post traumatic disorder and it's not a nice thing to cope with. War is hell and usually fought after diplomacy has failed.

    See that's not too hard is it?

    Nov 03rd, 2014 - 04:26 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Captain Poppy

    Your a pilot!!!


    Let's talk the insides of a Galaxy or a Hercules?

    You....are a comic gift that never ends............pilot......hardly. I have to take a leak before I

    Google some good locations in the USA so we can chat about the American locations you've virtually have visited.

    Nov 03rd, 2014 - 06:36 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • US Air Force

    122- Wolf - Thanks for the info. Maybe this will help some regarding the non disclosure of any activities and the vagueness in the non responsiveness. Look this link up: , the interpretation of this, is that it applies to all US members. 25 years from my last day of duty to even talk about what where who when ect....This is the first time as well that you have directed a comment to me. Some of us here on this board are great chums as you can see.

    Nov 03rd, 2014 - 07:05 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Clyde15

    So you would have us to believe that you go onto the internet rather than study your flight briefings. You're one of a kind! So, now at 1430, you are on the internet again ! Don't you have any work to do.
    I thought you said you were being watched by“ someone”. If your posts reached the station adjutant or whatever the USAF equivalent is you would be in serious trouble for posting anti British sentiment .
    How about the questions I asked you ? Not able to reply because You would be revealing classified information?
    So. the RAF fly 9-5 do they. What an ignorant twat you are.
    Joint Warrior 2014 2 has just finished and RAF aircraft, Hawks, Tornados and Typhoons in addition to other NATO aircraft have been flying 24 hours a day taking part in the fun. Here's another piece of news for you, up in the latitude where I live, the light starts disappearing at about 1600.
    By December, we have daylight from about 0830 to 1540 and still the RAF fly combat training missions and the ground crews also do night shifts.
    At RAF Lossiemouth, where 3 Squadrons of Typhoons will be based by 2015, there is even less daylight in winter but that does not stop the training.
    By the way, it is BUGGER OFF not Buggar off. Another give away.

    Wittering, the home of the Harrier. I got shown round there several times in the 1990's by the Officer in charge of the RAF police. I got lots of good photographs of the GR3's in Arctic camouflage when they had just returned fro Norway. The next time I visited was when the GR5 had just arrived coated in a rather drab green camouflage. No. 1 Squadron has now moved to Lossie.
    I can remember in the mid 60's travelling down the A1 when a Victor roared over the road at what seemed zero feet......clean change of underwear required.

    Nov 03rd, 2014 - 07:25 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • HansNiesund

    @121 United States Air Force

    Tsk, tsk, USAF, I'm only trying to help. Surely even you must have realised by now that your credibility around here is about as high as a Peronist promise to pay? I believe I've even said myself yours is the most fuck-witted Argentine impersonation I have ever encountered in the long tradition of fuck-witted Argentine impersonations on here. And yet here I am, giving out all these opportunities to establish at least a fig-leaf of credibility without getting yourself all stitched up like poor old Bradley Manning, and you're just so prickly you won't even answer a simple question. Tsk tsk tsk.

    But if I've offended you, however inadvertently, perhaps one of the guys on the squadron would oblige? Here's the question again, just in case:

    What do the guys on the squadron think of the argenteenagram sent by the President of Argenteena to the President of the United States? What kind of flowers do they recommend Obama takes with him when he goes to apologise at the G20 in Brisbane?

    It's really quite a simple question, I can give you some multiple choice answers if that helps out you or the guys.

    Nov 03rd, 2014 - 07:53 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • RICO

    I thought that Argentina wanted to get its new planes from the Israelis? It fell through, could it be that the Israeli businesses wanted to get paid for their work.

    Now Argentina thinks it can get new planes from Brasil for free. Hopefully someone will see sense.

    All this speculation about technology that is capable of going up against “Western” forces is a red herring. Why would Argentina need this, the planes will be mainly for attacking unarmed civilians as usual

    Nov 03rd, 2014 - 07:54 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Captain Poppy

    Oh intelligence man who is not intelligent.....typical military though. Ok USAF....some new google homework.....what was your security rating USAF?........The military still rates them the same. AND.......the military has a different standard than the one issued my the White House and the President cannot issue an executive order pertaining to military security issues without congressional approval you fuckwade. Most field operations have a 35 years non disclosure......submariners have 99 years and SPOD have something in between.
    Most relative is the fact that if you were in the DIA, we'd never see you here making a fuckwade of yourself.

    You are the STUPIDEST fucking RG to troll the annals of MP!!!!!!!!!!

    Nov 03rd, 2014 - 08:12 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Clyde15

    Can you explain to me and others how you “cannot” reveal ANYTHING about your service details down to the simplest non-contentious matter of your rank.
    If you look at the magazine Air Forces Monthly, it gives details of training missions, strike missions, details of aircraft, bases and interviews with station, squadron commanders and aircrew of the USAF, US NAVY and USMC.There is a book entitled “Sled Driver” recounting the experiences and missions of a pilot of the SR-71. I would have thought that this would have been next to TOP SECRET but it was published with no ramifications
    But your work is SO HIGHLY CLASSIFIED that you can reveal nothing.
    You expect us to believe this. Are you actually Walter Mitty and do your flying on a flight simulator ? I have to agree with #126 and #128 as to your authenticity.

    Nov 03rd, 2014 - 10:15 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • US Air Force

    Clyde - Here is about the extent of my anti Brit sentiment, enjoy, last time I checked, here in the US we have a thing known as Freedom of Speech:

    Nov 03rd, 2014 - 11:04 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • HansNiesund

    @129 He thinks that clip's a documentary.

    Nov 03rd, 2014 - 11:28 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Anglotino

    Freedom of speech and yet this was posted earlier:

    This guy has tied himself up in knots so much, it is probably time for a new name.

    Some interesting links:
    “Don’t use the Air Force name to endorse or promote products, political positions or religious ideologies.”

    Seems this person has already done this by using their name, which could be construed as representing the US Air Force in an official capacity.

    Perhaps a complaint to the USAF regarding this name might get the moderator to block them.
    ”Communication Systems. Federal Government communication systems and equipment (including Government - owned telephones, facsimile machines, electronic mail, Internet systems, and commercial systems when the federal Government pays for use) shall be for official use and authorized purposes only. JER, para. 2 - 301”

    If US Air Force was really who he was and had a duty to the US Air Force, then the first thing he would do is change his name as post as an individual and not as a representative of his workplace.

    However, we all know this person isn't even American.... so moot point.

    Nov 03rd, 2014 - 11:53 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • HansNiesund


    I guess you and the guys from the squadron must still be mulling over my question regarding Obama's response to Cristina's argenteegram. It's a difficult one, I know.

    Perhaps while you're still figuring it out, you could try this one instead? How do you and they guys on the squadron feel about self-confessed Argentine poster Think (sic) referring to President Obama as a 'nigga'? As in, e.g :

    “Cut the bullshiat... And get that Nigga President of yours to be civil, follow protocol and answer our President...”

    Nov 04th, 2014 - 12:03 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Captain Poppy

    Anyone in the US military has very limited freedom of speech. Only a serviceman would know that. Publicly rip into you CIC....aka Obama......and wait for that article 15.
    Don't ask about his duty stations or service.....just tell us some detailed information in some major American San Antonio.....outside of Lackland AFB ......were All US airmen and women do their basic. You must have been to other places in the USA.

    Nov 04th, 2014 - 12:09 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Anglotino

    Never ceases to amaze me how embarrassed some posters on here are about their real nationality.

    It's not that that they want to troll, it's that they feel they can only troll from a position of strength by lying about their national identity. I just can't fathom being so ashamed of your own country.

    Nov 04th, 2014 - 12:25 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Troy Tempest

    Have noticed that the Trolls are no longer putting any real efforts into their posts?

    Just lip service.

    It's like they know they are beaten, their assertions, indefensible - they can't be bothered.

    Nov 04th, 2014 - 12:58 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Per Ardua

    What a pathetic excuse for a fake military agent-provocateur...

    DoverBentOver was a far better-crafted fictitious character. La Campora must have run out of funds for their wages and can now only hire morons.

    Nov 04th, 2014 - 04:26 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Clyde15

    Back to the main topic|FGFG|FGFIN-2014-1104-GLOB&sfid=70120000000taAh

    Rather more input from Sweden than we were led to believe by Braseilero...
    by the way, Sweden is a WESTERN nation !!

    Nov 04th, 2014 - 06:09 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • HansNiesund


    No mention of Argentina there. I wonder what United Provinces Air Force and the guys at the squadron make of it all?

    PS minor correction to the link :|FGFG|FGFIN-2014-1104-GLOB&sfid=70120000000taAh

    Nov 04th, 2014 - 06:22 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Troy Tempest

    More Argentinian “Pie in the Sky” heh heh.

    As Argentina declines, relative to Brazil, and Brazil's finances tighten, in turn, it looks less likely that Brazil will subsidise Arg or allow them to ride on their coattails for free.

    Better shelve this fantasy along with
    - Super Pampas ( ground ( people) attack aircraft only - good for Dictators...
    - Used Spanish Mirages
    - Used Israeli fighters

    No money, no toys.

    Unless... they can get China to mortgage them against future Argentine resources, perhaps?

    Nov 04th, 2014 - 07:46 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ChrisR

    @ 140 Troy Tempest
    “More Argentinian “Pie in the Sky”

    More like pilot killing, time expired planes and engines on the ground in reality.

    Even if they ever get the Brasso Gripen (that’s one HUGE if) they do not have the support systems and the wherewithal to get them in the air.

    Bit of a pity really. The argies like to “buzz” the sea between TDC and the Falklands until a Typhoon is up. It only take one Storm Shadow to “do” for a Gripen and that will be the end of the “buzzing”.

    TMBOA can scweem and scweem all she likes at the UN then.

    Nov 04th, 2014 - 08:03 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Clyde15

    Technical point - Storm Shadow is a long range cruise missile for ground targets AIM 132 ASRAAM is used against aerial targets.

    Nov 05th, 2014 - 11:05 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ChrisR

    @ 142 Clyde15

    Thanks for that but I am correct in stating SS is Typhoon capable, aren't I (I saw a photo in the DT)?

    I thought SS was in fact another ASRAAM. :o(

    Nov 05th, 2014 - 12:31 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Captain Poppy

    USAF must be working some “high level” work to be away so googling to types of military clearance levels versus civilians. I can't but help bursting out with a Ricky Ricardo belly laugh.

    Nov 05th, 2014 - 05:23 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Clyde15

    The Storm Shadow is being flight tested with the Eurofighter in Italy and is expected to be cleared for service in 2015. It is already operational with the Tornado.
    The need for the flight testing is not only to get the electronics right, but to find out how it affects the handling of the Typhoon with a 1300 KG lump hanging from it's wing. So far no problems have been found.

    The long range air to air missile is the Meteor which can be launched against aerial targets Beyond Visual Range (BVR). It's range is quoted as 100 KM plus and the unit cost is at least £1,000,000. You could have bought 40 Spitfires for the same price in WW2 !

    Nov 05th, 2014 - 06:01 pm - Link - Report abuse 0

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